The Gender Divide in STEM

[SpiderManFan2002]

STEM. Science Mathematics Engineering and Technology.

STEM is the future, yet so many girls my age are discouraged from participating in these subjects. Why? Males and Females are born with the same blank brain. Take the gender aspect away from things, what are they? Human beings.s

These figures speak for themselves:

From the years 2015-2017 women in STEM increased from 22,020 to 22,340. Now that figure has decreased by 1%. That may not seem like a lot when I first say it, but 1% of 22,340 is 223. That's 223 women that left STEM careers.

I understand that many men do support equality, in these subjects, gender equality but there is that toxic amount who do not.

For example, on certain forum websites when I put that I am female, and ask a question concerning an issue that has arisen in my work, the males on that forum will make derogatory remarks. Be passive aggressive. Make me feel stupid, just because I don't know something. Yet when I keep my gender private their tone changes and they just answer the question. Why can't they just answer it in the first place rather regardless of my gender?

Without even seeing my face some of the males have assumed I'm on that website to look for someone to flirt with, not for my work.

Girls shouldn't be afraid of doing the subjects, and boys should help encourage them, not put them down. If we all come together and help each other this immense gap will soon be none existent.

#girlsinstem

[Anonymous]

No, the figures in the image you posted do not speak for themselves as you suggest. They certainly paint a clear picture, but not the one you want us to believe.

The fact is that there are indeed differences in male and female brains, and in their interests, priorities and motivations. Those differences account for the gender disparity in STEM. Studies show that the more gender equal a society is, the less likely females are to choose STEM related fields. That is, the more freedom women have to choose their paths in life, the less likely they are to study STEM and choose related fields for their careers.

www.theatlantic.com/.../

journals.sagepub.com/.../0956797617741719

I have female friends and relatives in STEM fields and they universally disagree with your claims that women are discouraged from studying and entering STEM. On the contrary, they say they actually feel a bit guilty about how much better they are treated than male candidates.

So please lose the victim mentality because all you are really doing is undermining respect for female with this nonsense.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Well I must say your female friends are privileged.

But where I come from, it isn't like that. I've a friend who has an older sister who is doing a CS course at university, she is the only girl in her class in a class of about 30.

And females are less likely to choose STEM because that is how society have made it. There's been campaigns in my country because women don't get picked for the job based on their skill , but if they look nice in a pair of heels. A coronation street star campaigned against this.

For not one second am I suggesting take away their freedom of choice and force them to do STEM, but what I am suggesting is girls all around the world should be exposed to science, maths, technology and engineering.

My comment about the "same blank brain" means that both male and female are born with nothing on their brain. It's what it's filled with determines how good you will be at something not because males are good at certain things and females are good at certain things.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Yes, both male and female brains do have differences such as structure, processing information etc.

But that doesn't mean one brain can't do something the other can.

Both may have different ways of doing the same thing, coming to the same conclusion.

One way of doing things may be more efficient than the other, but I'm sure whoever has the more efficient way can teach the other gender their way of doing things.

[Opinion Owner]

Of course they are privileged. They are women in the western world and they are the most privileged and entitled people in the history of the human race. They have more rights and privileges than men do. It is far easier for them to get into college, and especially STEM fields, because society rolls out the red carpet for them and provides them with millions of dollars in scholarships, grants and financial aid that are not available to their male counterparts. Women are treated like gold in STEM fields. So yeah, they are indeed privileged. Of course they are. And so are you.

Whether you realize it or not, what you are asking for here is (more) special treatment. Society already essentially treats women like children, but you want to be coddled even more. You want to be protected from any adversity or negativity. Well I'm sorry to break it to you but that's not how the real world works, for ANYONE.

[Opinion Owner]

It takes strength, character and resilience to succeed in anything, including STEM. There is NOTHING stopping you from going into STEM and being successful except your own mindset, weakness and victim mentality. Stop blaming others and just what you want to do, like everyone else.

[Opinion Owner]

I forgot to mention that males now represent less than 40% of college students and graduates ate every level, and yet all of those gender specific scholarships, grants and financial aid are available only to females, not males. And yet you are complaining about discrimination against females in higher education? Really?

[Logorithim]

I think one turn-off for some women regarding STEM is the difficulty in balancing a career in one of These fields with raising children. Some may also be put off by male-dominated fields in general simply because they are male-dominated and, more important, males viewed as geeks (an unfair stereotype, but one that persists). For example, young women may feel more comfortable with a female mentor than a male one.

I don't think women are necessarily put off by the difficulty of STEM fields- the huge female presence in biology and medicine indicates that isn't the case.

[SpiderManFan2002]

True, but surely there are ways we can work around that.

Why should a woman consider twice before she picks a career just because she wants to have children?

She's bringing life into this world, who's to say the child she raises does not change the world in anyway shape or form?

As said previously there needs to be ways of working around this, allowing the woman to pursue a career in these fields and be given time off to have children.

[Logorithim]

I think there should be no barriers to a woman pursuing a career and motherhood, but female scientists in the country I live in (Germany) often are childless (far more than non-scientists) primarily because of the lack of available child care after 5 p. m.

[Anonymous]

I dont see how women are discouraged at all, goverments around the world offer special incentives and needing lower grades for girls to enrol in STEMs, it seems to be more about women making other choices. Like I was offered a college place for STEM even though I'm academically unfit and have grades below what a guy would be required to have to do a stem degree. They also offered me a large grant just to get me to do it.
I think it's more important that we focus on the gender divide in female dominated careers like nursing, accountants childcare, teaching, secretarial, beautician, social worker, vets, administration etc and get more women into blue collared jobs such as sewage worker, plumbing, electrician, carpentry, bricklaying, manufacturing.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Why do governments offer lower grades for females entering STEM?
Do they expect females to achieve lower grades?
This is the problem.
Grades shouldn't be lowered in order to let girls into the subjects, girls should be taught and encouraged how to get the higher grades to get into the subjects.

[Opinion Owner]

They lower the bar academically for women to encourage more women to sign up for STEM. It's all about meeting quotas.
Girls are taught and encouraged how to get the higher grades to get into the subjects, in fact on average they beat boys achademically and more women graduate college than men, there's a serious gender gap concerning boys education and their grades that goverments need to address. You have to account for girls making their own decisions.

[SpiderManFan2002]

And do you ask yourself why girls are more drawn to gender studies?

[Opinion Owner]

Because it's easier and trendy.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Right, so why are girls drawn to easier subjects yet boys drawn to the "harder" subjects such as STEM subjects?

[Opinion Owner]

Personal choices. It's like why are men compared to women more likely to be drawn to jobs that make a lot of money, why are they more likely to work overtime, why are they more likely to travel longer distances for a job, why do they pursue promotion more aggressively, why are they more likely to demand a raise, why are they more likely to leave a job they love and are comfortable in for a job they hate that pays more etc? I think the reason is that soceity gives women such an easy time and men such a hard time.

[SpiderManFan2002]

But do you not think there is a reason for these personal choices?

[Opinion Owner]

Partly biology partly soceity molly cuddling women

[mindequalsblown]

I don't think girls are discouraged from STEM because men intimidate women to not join the field or because there isn't as much support, especially not nowadays when companies do waaay too much to encourage women who are plainly uninterested.

I personally don't have any interest in STEM because I just don't like it and there is no point forcing myself to. Just tell your daughters that if they want to do STEM, they can, but if they don't, honestly just give it a rest.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Have you ever tried any STEM subjects?

[mindequalsblown]

Yes, I have! I went to a STEM-focused high school where I did five Math courses and four Computer Science courses in four years as well as 3 years of advanced Bio, Physics and Chemistry. Now I am in college doing Journalism/Broadcasting and life has never been better.

[meowcow]

Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on your take.

You said that, "STEM is the future, yet so many girls my age are discouraged from participating in these subjects."

Never in my life have I ever seen a girl in this country being discouraged from entering a STEM field. I have never seen a teacher or fellow student say anything like that, and my wife is a high school teacher, while I was a university lecturer for 7 years.

What I HAVE observed, is that girls think that math, chemistry, physics... etc are "too hard". What I have heard... FROM GIRLS... is that they are more interested in applied sciences or arts, like psychology, criminology, music. But when it comes to particle physics, bridge engineering, inorganic chemistry... girls CHOOSE not to major in those subjects.

So your statistics showing men dominating STEM fields is not proof that women are discouraged from such fields. Proof would be actually showing us that there is a movement to remove girls from STEM studies.

When you have 100 STEM students, with 10 females and 90 males, it is not a surprise that companies will have similar ratios of male to female.

You don't seem to realize that men and women are not the same. Humans are not blank slates. There are very fundamental differences in the way men and women think, and this is reflected in their life choices. Men are often more precise and calculating, which is a natural fit for math-heavy STEM topics. Women more often take a big picture view, which is not a natural fit for a math-heavy STEM field.

It doesn't have to be exactly 50/50 for something to be fair and equitable. What is fair and equitable is that every man and women has the freedom to CHOOSE their field of study and that is exactly what is happening.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Girls are not afraid to go into STEM fields. In fact we have more programs to try and push them into STEM fields, some places have actually barred men from getting into STEM fields in order to try to get more women into them. The fact is women CHOOSE not to enter them. I never understood this, why is it not rampant sexism that early childhood education is almost entirely comprised of women? Why is it not rampant sexism that psychology is over 80% women? Why is it not rampant sexism that social work (where women earn a dollar more then men) is over 80% female? Why is it not rampant sexism that pediatrics is over 80% female? Why is it not rampant sexism that female models can earn more then 20x their male counter parts? Why don't we have programs to encourage boys to enter these fields? Why is it not rampant sexism that boys are falling further and further behind in school despite all the efforts to make schools more "friendly" to women? Why is it not sexism that over 63% of all college graduates are female? Why is it not sexism that causes men to drop out at 4x the rate as women? Why are their no programs to get women into construction work which is over 90% male? Why are their no programs to get women into mining which is over 90% male? Why are their no programs to get women into waste management positions which is almost entirely male? All of that seems like sexism, why are you not talking about that? Oh yeah, because you don't care about equality, you just want extra privilege, you don't care about how shitty jobs, hard jobs, physically grueling and/or dangerous jobs are almost entirely male, you just want the glorified jobs. What you have written is nothing more then a sexist rant that completely ignores reality, the fact is STEM programs have actually closed because women continued to avoid them, they are far more likely to drop out of them then men are and far more likely not to choose them then men are. Its personal choice. Meanwhile in education boys are given lower grades despite giving the same answers as their female counter parts, boys are incredibly far behind in reading and writing SPECIFICALLY because of sexism whether it be that the teachers (almost all women (again, you seem perfectly content with that)) give them lower grades despite them giving the same answers as female students, to the reading material being geared towards girls almost exclusively (when reviewed the school reading list was 80% female geared reading).

[Bandit74]

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Unpopular opinion so... I'm going anon.

Yes, there are some misogynistic people out there. But I believe that this topic's primary causes don't include them.

I don't think that their are many men in the tech industry that have an issue with women working the same jobs as them. I have worked in several companies in software and web development, and women are treated the same. When discussing this very issue (one on one, so no pressure on the other person), every single person I talked to shared that opinion with me. While some of them could cite examples of their being misogynistic pricks around, they were few and far between. And twice removed from my social circle, too -- so it is reasonable to assume that this occurrence is rare.

So is the lack of women in the tech industry caused by a small number of vocal misogynists? Or something else? I personally believe that the misogynistic asshats are only a small part of it, and here's why.

Firstly, there is the numbers. Simply BECAUSE there is very little women in STEM, many potentially STEM-bound women may shy away from it because they think there is a misogynistic culture. That's a reasonable assumption to make based off of the numbers, but it only propagates the imbalance.

Secondly, there is the actual interest. Don't kill me here until you finish reading, though ;). Am I saying that women are less interested in tech development than men? Well... yes, actually. Let me explain this generalization.

I'm not saying that every girl dislikes STEM; it is indeed a generalization, and that means I'm just saying that girls TEND to prefer other jobs. Women in general are more attracted to interpersonal relationship jobs whereas men are more attracted to engineering jobs. Just look at teaching as an example: lots of women, few men. It is just the difference between how men and women are wired: while both a man and a woman would be EQUALLY CAPABLE at any said job, they may not have the same PREFERENCE towards doing it.

There is also the misconceptions that women in tech has been in decline, or at least in decline before everyone published articles about it. That's just wrong! While it is true that women have has less numbers in tech, their trends exactly match men. The difference is that in tech industry booms, more men join than woman, and in industry falls, more women leave then men. Look at the numbers.

I'm out of space for a meaningful conclusion, shit.

Can you tell I've presented on this topic to companies?

[Gouthamfab]

You have presented more than enough information. How else can more girls graduate but more guys end up in high pay jobs? people want patriarchy and other crap because they can't accept the reality. Western society has very good opportunities for women. Give some time and women will catch up.

[mindequalsblown]

Nicely said! And kudos to you for presenting to companies, a lot of people don't bother.

[Shadow44]

Last time I checked girls weren't discouraged from stem. At the university I just graduated from there are lots of girlsin biology, chemistry, and biochemistry. There aren't many girls in computer science and my university computer science department does have programs that are ran by female computer science students to get girls from the ages of grade 5-12 interested in computers and programming. In physics classes there aren't many girls but then again the sample size at my university is so small since nearly nobody goes into physics, same goes for math but the numbers between the genders seem a bit more baclanced there. The physics department also runs similar programs to the computer science department.

Engineering is mostly male and it's weird that it is becaus eit's the only major that I know of where girls get a $1000-$2000 scholarship for just being a woman (which isn't offered to men and nothing similar is offered to men). Yet I know of few women in engineering.

Throughout all of grade school and high school teachers just pushed for women to get into stem. Nothing said about men, even though I was the only person interested in being a scientist, we had few who wanted to be engineers and even more who wanted to be doctors.

We can't force women to be interested in stem if they just aren't. I know women who switched out of biology and went into nursing or business mainly because getting into med school even with high grades is a bitch. A knew a girl who switched out of physics and went for environmental studies because she didn't see the field going anywhere and hated how the chemistry department ran their courses.

I think the problem with getting women into stem is that in high school and before people who liked the sciences and maths were seen as nerdy or dorky and it was uncool/unpopular to like those sorts of things. So guys who liked them were seen as the nerds. So that may put some girls off of it especially if the nerds were picked on. Also stem careers and degrees are hard and take a lot of determination (physics being up there) and not everyone has that determination and motivation to do them (this goes for both girls and guys).

We shouldn't be trying to force women into fields they have no interest in and why is stem the only male do, inated fields we try to get women into? What about mining, plumbing, waste displosal? They aren't the most glamorous jobs but they do pay a pretty penny for those who take them up.

[NineBreaker]

This reminds of when I was in college. When I was taking English Literature, Anthropology, and psychology, women made up more than half of the students in the class. When I was taking calculus-based physics, multi-variate calculus, and physical chemistry, women were a very, very tiny minority.

When I walked through the Art School, there were so many women. When I walked through the Engineering School, there were barely any.

In the past, women were restricted in their choice for an education, or even their access to it. Now, however, the disparity in STEM fields is merely an echo from the past that is slowly diminishing. When my dad was in Med School in the 60's his class only had 3 women. Now, slightly more than half of the graduates from his alma matter this year are women.

I think that there isn't as big a disparity in biomedical and clinical health fields, but it still exists to some extent in other STEM fields. I agree that women should be encouraged to participate in STEM, but you have to factor in personal preferences. Are women really shying away from STEM because they're being discouraged (or not encouraged enough), or is it due to a lack of interest?

The behavior of men and women is different (generally speaking). Is it possible that women tend to gravitate more towards education and careers in fields that are more people-centered (doctors, nurses, teachers... etc.), while men tend to gravitate towards thing-centered work (electronics, chemicals, software... etc.)?

Of course, these trends are changing. For example, when looking at my own family, the women in the generation of my grandparents could only read and do basic math, while among the women among my parents' generation half are college educated. Now, my generation (siblings and cousins), the women VASTLY surpass the men in education and careers. These women are literally either doctors or engineers. The only exceptions are one mathematician, and one accountant. Even those two are in STEM fields.

My point is, there is a trend where women are becoming more and more involved in STEM, and that is a good thing. However, this should not come at a cost for the number of men who are interested in STEM. I think by having more men AND women in STEM fields, society in general will benefit from the added STEM-related workforce.

[SpiderManFan2002]

I'm not at all suggesting we should try and decrease the number of men in STEM subjects, all I'm stating is that girls should be more included in these subjects.

[Anonymous]

Males and females aren't born with blank brains. We're born with inherent qualities. That's how our bodies know how to learn how to walk. Genetic programming. We are not equal. We are not the same. That's why you have a vagina, and I have a penis.

There have been various studies showing both human and ape neonates having gender-typed preferences for specific toys. Neonates have not been influenced, at all, yet.

Yet, the females prefer faces and the males prefer objects.

It's not society you should be angry at for "discouraging" women. It's nature. Nature also gave you half as dense muscles and half as dense bones. Is that societal influence, as well?

Women simply do not have as much interest in math and science as men do. If you do, awesome, but why do you want to force more girls into going into a field they don't like?

There is a reason you will find far more women in social careers rather than object-oriented ones. And it isn't because of social pressure. But, trying to say that is arguing chicken before egg. So you need more proof than, "It's all society's fault."

So, *why* is it social discouragement? In what ways does society discourage women from pursuing math and science?

All you're trying to do is influence women in the opposite direction of the influence that you believe is discouraging them. Either way, it's forcing your beliefs on what women should be.

Given that women excel far more than boys *at every level of education* it is somehow curious that so few of them decide to enter math and science.

Meanwhile, the boys are left not even graduating high school or getting shitty grades, because the education system favors females so drastically.

Maybe those women left STEM careers because they did not enjoy an object-oriented career?

People are mean online. If you can't handle it, don't get online. People are going to steteotype you one way or another. Instead of bitching and moaning, maybe you would have better luck not letting random peoples' words get to you. Or, yes, keep your gender out of it. I dare say that you probably commit a confirmation bias, because you're starting with the belief that you are looked down on, because you are a woman.

[Schrodingerscat]

Being a girl in STEM , I haven't faced much of discrimination so far. Except only one sexist Math professor who believed that women would never be as good as men at Math. That's the only instance I can recall where someone from institution has discrimated against females. Other than that, my university and my country is extremely supportive of women in science. Special conferences , associations of women in science, special scholarships to pursue research and higher education... And that is so called conservative country like India.

But... Even if your university, your government is supporting you... The remaining public- the kind you deal with on day to day basis... That's another story. Here's what I have come across while interacting with men online and offline

- Women in STEM are ugly. I wouldn't date a woman in STEM. I don't care how smart and hardworking she is, she's just ugly to me.

- A guy has already said in his opinion but I have heard it from plenty other men echoing it : women in STEM can't focus on family. They're too career oriented. They won't be able to raise children well. I want a girl with no demanding career like say receptionist, secretary etc.

- Women in STEM are not feminine.

If a girl is bombarded with such stereotypes all time, why would she want to pursue STEM, no matter how much government and University is supporting her?

Yes, probably women do have preference to humanities and biology. But it is not entirely dependent on nature. The 'nurture' part also plays huge role. I know women who had great careers in STEM. They came from families with strong STEM background. I also read somewhere that girls are likely to be better at math and pursue it further if their parents are also in STEM.

[SpiderManFan2002]

"Women in STEM are ugly. I wouldn't date a woman in STEM. I don't care how smart and hardworking she is, she's just ugly to me."
To you, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, your ugly may be somebody else's beautiful.

"women in STEM can't focus on family. They're too career oriented. They won't be able to raise children well. I want a girl with no demanding career like say receptionist, secretary etc."
Yes and this is why girls are discouraged from going into STEM. But surely there are ways of working around this.

"Women in STEM are not feminine."
I'm a girl in STEM, and I do consider myself feminine.

[Schrodingerscat]

Hun, it's not what I believe in, it's what men have said to me all the time.

[ThatPersonOverThere]

Sorry how EXACTLY are girls discouraged from entering STEM?

Also of you're going to present statistics, do make a basic effort to choose ones which don't contradict each other.
Which is it? 26% of STEM jobs are held by women, or is it less than 25%? Also for "STEM Facts on Women & Girls", why the hell was race brought into it? Some people just can't help but play identify politics I guess...

Here's some statistics that may have been useful...
What are the percentage of women who WANT to work in STEM? What percentage of women who want to work in STEM are, compared with those same numbers for men?

But let's just ignore that women have the freedom to make their own choices and the majority of women are CHOOSING not to work STEM. (Just as I chose not to, but nobody bitches when men choose to do something else.)

If you want to work in STEM, do what men do... shut the fuck up, quit blaming others for your problems, go bust your ass at university, take an entry level position, and work your way up. Hell, there are WOMEN ONLY scholarships, especially fo STEM. There are people out there who will literally throw money at you simply for having a vagina, and somehow you still find a way to fail! The only person stopping you is you dude.

You want to know why men succeed in this world where women struggle?
Men look for solutions to problems.
Women look for problems to cry about.
Men look at challenge and see opportunity.
Women look at opportunity and see challenge.

25% of STEM jobs are held by women? I'm surprised it's even that high all things considered.

[SpiderManFan2002]

But ask the women why they don't want to work in STEM if they do not.
And no, just because women point out clear problems in the world, does not mean they are crying about it. They simply see, unfairness in the world and oppose it.

[ThatPersonOverThere]

WHAT unfairness?
All you've pointed out is that the ratio of men:women in STEM doesn't match the general population.
SO WHAT? That's true of most professions. Women aren't complaining about the injustice of lack of female coal miners right?

Basically a bunch of feminists told you that you weren't welcome into STEM, you internalized it, and now you want to assert that there's some injustice or unfairness going on.

If you want to work in STEM, and you're smart enough to do it, then go so it and stop blaming others for YOUR choices!

If you don't want to work STEM because "Oh well I don't feel welcomed enough", then you aren't strong enough mentally to hack it anyway. There's a reason these jobs pay what they do, because they are Not Easy! If you're going to let such a flimsy reason as that stop you, then you have no business pursuing that path.

You only get one life man. You can spend it following your dreams or you can blame others for your choice not to follow them.

[dantetheexplorer]

Yes. It doesn't take anyone particularly observant to see the huge divide between the genders when it comes to, not only S. T. E. M, but so many other things. For example, I'm always fascinated by politics and political commentary, economic forums, civil planning, etc - but I find that the discussion in these topics/subjects are led by a crowd that is overwhelmingly male.

I'm not sure whether there are more Guys than Girls in this place, but perhaps Girls-ask-Guys is also a microcosm of the greater divide you mention. Questions that deal in science or politics or finance, I've noticed that the response is almost always overwhelmingly male. The women here tend to congregate around those topics dealing in relationship, fashion, etc. As I said, it could be because there are more men than women on Girls-ask-Guys. Otherwise, you'd have to conclude that either (a) women are apprehensive when it comes to talking about such matters in a co-ed setting (b) women just don't care about those topics, or (c) some combination of the two.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Your point about G@G is true.

Girls should start caring about science and politics. Look at the women who fought 100 years ago for the women's vote. They didn't fight for the right to vote for girls not to care in the future.

[VIVANT]

“Women should care more about politics”? How do you know how much women care around the world? Anyhow bullshittjjg on a site dies not truly indicate a husky interest it just indicates you like sounding like you care about stuff or have something to say... most people talking will just talk.

Most political rights activists are women.

Women on this site don’t represent women everywhere. This site is not specifically for politics. If you are on a political site there are many women.

[JZ909]

If you want to do STEM, do it. There is every indication that companies are willing and even prefer to hire women in STEM fields, which probably has something to do with the alleged sexism in STEM, an allegation that companies are eager to avoid for PR purposes. However, creating a demand for a certain demographic in a field that is not related to competence creates a negative, biased environment.

If women are being hired because they're women, not because they're good, it will reflect negatively on all women in STEM, regardless of their competence. Women will always have to prove their competence, because coworkers will accurately perceive that when a woman is hired, there is a risk that diversity and PR was prioritized over competence, a risk that is not present with men. It may be that this focus on women in STEM is creating the very bias it is attempting to eliminate.

Males and females are not "born with the same blank brain" (ref 1) which may explain gender gaps in many fields. (ref 2). Perhaps the issue is not bias in the industry, but simply a lack of interest, or, at a macro level, lower competence. While it is extremely controversial to say that men may tend to be better at anything (other than raw strength) than women, it seems like a reasonable theory to explain the information at hand. This doesn't mean women shouldn't be in the field, it simply means we should expect a lower percentage of the field to be female than male.

1. en.wikipedia.org/.../Neuroscience_of_sex_differences
2. www.bostonglobe.com/.../story.html

[CubsterShura]

Fortunately here we don't have much against women in STEM, I mean, there is, but it is still not as bad as in many other countries far more developed than ours.

I read a book once where the writer is a student of physics. He wrote that when he studied in our country, about half of the students were girls but when he went to America, he expected more girls in STEM but he rather discovered that there are so less women in STEM. There were very few girls in his class and it is because of the stereotype of women in STEM being robotic, boring, competitive and intimidating. I was surprised.

I want to study physics, in fact I am a science student in school now and my father fortunately supports me. He would support me in any field I want to go and he is supporting me in this case too.

My sister doesn't work in STEM but she does a highly professional job where only one in five employees are women because so less women take this field.

And I am highly disappointed with the guys opinions here as always. Lol they don't even understand what gender equality in STEM field is but they feel like they can make a bold (nonsense) statement.

I am actually abroad now so I am quite busy with traveling. I wish to write a myTake on gender equality in male dominant fields once I am back to my home. 😊❤

[SpiderManFan2002]

Great! I'll be sure to read your MyTake.

My father also supports me in doing computer science.

[Schrodingerscat]

Physics 😍😍 welcome to the club 😇

I'm disappointed at opinions on here too lol. Not surprised. I know a lot of girls who had great careers as scientists and engineers.

[CubsterShura]

@Schrodingerscat me too. While I don't deny the biological and psychological differences between men and women, there is no way that we should underestimate a woman's capabilities 😇

[IlyaTheImpaler]

college girls in the US are probably too busy having sex and missed physics classes 😂just ask them

[ksoma]

I have two thoughts on this:

1) I have never been, in any way, put off by, offended by, upset by, or disturbed by, any female of any age having any interest in STEM. So whether it is the fact that my niece likes to build little physics experiments with a $20/month home learning kit she is subscribed to, or the fact that my doctor is female, I don't think twice about it.

however...

2) blaming culture, society, or stereotyping on the fact that women go into it less is abjectly stupid. Men and women are not, inherently, the same in how our minds work, with only our genitals being different. Men and women's minds work differently in some ways, and in some ways those differences are subtle, and in some ways they are not. Why are there less women in STEM? Simple: because less women care about being in STEM. Best proof of this?
Go to a women's study group where they are bitching about a lack of women in STEM, and ask them, bluntly, why they are majoring in women's studies, instead of in STEM fields.
If any one of them can give you an answer more coherent than unbridled rage, they will most likely tell you...
because that isn't what they want to do.
So if they don't want to do it, and they surround themselves with other women who don't want to do it, why the fuck should they assume that millions of women do want to and are being kept out of it, instead of considering that... maybe other women have other interests to.

[Shadow44]

I love your answer man.

[ChronicThinker]

I don't think it's the fault of men on those forums that girls don't join STEM careers. Overall, women just tend to follow more creative paths either into the arts, or sometimes healthcare and childcare - it's something that's common due to the nature of how women are. In my experience, women prefer things that come "naturally" to them.

Women also allow themselves to be intimidated. Do you think those jerks online are only rude to women? No, I have friends and even colleagues who previously went to school for stem related degrees, and there are ALWAYS going to be wise-ass twats who are so high on their horse that they will make you feel stupid to feel better about themselves. This idea that it's THEIR fault women don't join just reiterates we are the "weaker sex" in the eyes of a lot of people, because rather than say "fuck it, I'm going to this anyway" they get sensitive about it and either refuse to do it or feel bad.

Don't think about your gender, I truly believe that's how we can end this equality issue. Stop making things about "being a female" even if it is. Just do what you want, unapologetically, and if anyone throws shit at you for having a vagina, flip them the bird and continue doing your best.

That's it.

[FakeName123]

"Males and Females are born with the same blank brain"

No, they are not. There are known physical differences between the male and the female brain. Size, connection of the two hemispheres, hormones, the way activity flows throughout the brain, etc. That's hard science and facts.

Additionally research has been done on toddlers prior to the age of being socialised. Aka a few weeks old. Toddlers who couldn't even play with toys nor speak. Let alone being told what to think. Even said toddlers had gender-differences on what toys they reacted more. The boys were more interested in THINGS, such as a ball. The girls were more interested in dolls.

A psychologist phrased it pretty good a while back. I will try to quote it from my memory. "Gender is defined by biological drives as well as socialising. When you take away the socialising and leave everyone to have the equal opportunity of choice, the biological differences kick in even more."
That shows itself especially in the scandinavian countries where the gap of interests between the genders are even WIDER due to the feminist influence.

[SpiderManFan2002]

I've explained that statement several times before, but here I go again.

Yes, our brain may process information differently, one may be bigger than the other etc.

But it's blank, when we're first born and that's what's the same about it.

And just because our brains process information differently, doesn't mean we can't come to the same conclusion or do the same things.

[FakeName123]

Processing information differently, yet coming to the same conclusions? Do you even realise how insane that sounds?

Men and women do have very different perspectives in life due to the very differences of how their brains operate. That's also why men and women have different interests, priorities, values, etc. Literally every statistic in our society proves this.
You really think it's just how the sexes are being raised? You really think that men and women were raised differently to an extent that they are this distinctively different for thousands of years all over the world? Or could it maybe be that men and women are IN FACT different and society is just an extension of those differences?

[SpiderManFan2002]

Processing information and coming to the same conclusion? Insane? I think not.

Take multiplication for example.
You can do the grid method.
Or the column method.

You're multiplying the numbers in a different way, adding up what remains in a different way, but overall you're coming to the same conclusion.

And yes, I do believe we have differences, but I also believe our different interests do in fact come from society. You're telling me every girl/boy wants to play with the same toys as a child because they're a girl/boy? Because usually, a boy surrounded by many girls growing up, say he has all sisters will be drawn to the "girl-ish" toys. Equally a girl with lots of brothers as a child may be drawn to the more "boy-ish" toys.

When being toddlers they don't care about what is for boys or girls, its the bright colours which attract them to a toy.

[FakeName123]

"Processing information and coming to the same conclusion? Insane? I think not."

You will not come to the same conclusion, if your priorities are different. Using your mathematical example would be using different numbers. Sure, sometimes it happens that things align. One person perceives 2x3 and the other 1+5. Same conclusion with different approaches.

Reality is, that statistics prove that men and women do not value the same things nor have the same priorities in life. Hence, even school proves that boys are on average better at math and girls better at linguistics. Men vote more right-, women more left-wing. Men have better spatial vision, women have better colour vision. Men prefer watching cars and sports. Women prefer watching social and emotional stories.

[FakeName123]

The list goes on. The proof is everywhere. Are you really telling me that there is a society so strong that for centuries all around the world it forced men and women to act certain ways? And these certain ways everywhere had similarities? Isn't that some gigantic conspiracy?

And here you go: www.sciencedaily.com/.../160715114739.htm
Toddlers don't care about socialising.

[Energiya]

I think the biggest obstacle for more women in STEM are the lack of interest or perhaps encouragement (from an early age). Sadly, fewer women are less interested in technical subjects from a young age. They tend to excel in areas of emotional intelligence like human resources or social care and left behind in technical areas such as engineering/science.

There are subtle differences between male and female neurologically which becomes apparent when you study large groups of people. If you look at the differences between male and female children, you can somewhat see that. Young girls love to read poetry or novels whereas young boys prefer none fiction stuff. Girls like playing with soft toys (like dolls) boys like playing with toy cars-the sorts of toys that develop spatial intelligence and physical confidence. Those early year's are crucial for a persons brain development. So it's not surprising why men hugely dominate in careers prising maths, spatial awareness and physical confidence.

So there are biological differences, but upbringing is a far more influential factor why females under perform in technical fields.

Also bear in mind some countries have much higher % of population in STEM than others. Currently 29% of people in scientific research worldwide are women. In Russia it's 41%. Only 4% of women are innovators in the UK. In Russia it's 15%.

And it's not just a gender problem. Fewer natives from developed western European countries are choosing STEM careers compared to their Asian peers from China and India. As someone who is in the STEM field in a western country, nearly all my scientific colleagues are foreigners.

[GamingDragomachina]

I feel the problem comes, not from lack of change, but to much change.
In my school, they take excessive amounts to push girls to enter STEM jobs and curriculum.

For example, in my 7th year of school i transitioned schools and also out of a STEM class. In my 8th year, at the new school, they told us of a trip to teach us about jobs to get us to start thinking about those jobs.

The guys and girls went to different places. The guys went to a hospital institute to learn about all sorts of medical and help careers. Girls went to the college to learn about STEM courses.

In my 9th year of school, the principal and all teachers kept on preaching about how more women need to be in STEM.

Every year has followed this trend of promoting women to enter STEM courses and jobs. Which is fine and all, but when you force someone to do something they won't want to do it.

So, your right with your statistics and the result, but wrong about the cause.

That 1% drop is more than likely due to it being over encouraged and over forced than pure discouragement.

[Celtero]

Yeah... fuck this shit. Feminists think everything needs to be in favor of women, well guess what? IT DOESN'T!

If men are ~98% of combat fatalities and ~76% of suicides (1), I think they deserve to have their stem too. We don't need to force women into stem so it's 50/50 while men are still expected to be the breadwinner and almost ~90% of women have children (2), which interferes with their productivity at work. Men though? Men work HARDER once they have children in order to be a better provider.

Yeah, I see that you've had some negative experiences in stem, but why does it have to be sexism? Perhaps men put up with shitty bosses and coworkers too? Maybe you will have to work harder, but once you're a veteran programmer you'll make a great mentor and example for girls who want (and aren't coerced into) to be programmers themselves.

Still very well written for a 15 year old, even if I don't agree with the message.

(1) www.avoiceformen.com/the-facts-about-men-and-boys/
(2) www.pewsocialtrends.org/.../

[SpiderManFan2002]

"If men are ~98% of combat fatalities and ~76% of suicides (1), I think they deserve to have their stem too."
Who said anything about not letting men into STEM fields?

"We don't need to force women into stem so it's 50/50"
Nobody said anything about forcing women into STEM either. However, girls should take more of an interest about the future of this world. That is all I am saying.

" while men are still expected to be the breadwinner"
Why are men expected to be the breadwinner? Because that's how society have made it. I nor do any of my friends expect the man to go out and work whilst the woman stays at home looking after the children. There is nothing wrong with that, but we believe that anyone could be the breadwinner and anyone can stay at home, and that is okay as long as it is out of choice.

[SpiderManFan2002]

"Yeah, I see that you've had some negative experiences in stem, but why does it have to be sexism?"
If it isn't sexism then what is it? Just because they're not open about it doesn't mean they are not sexist. When I put I'm a girl on my profile, some of the guys patronize me, call me names, make me feel stupid for not knowing something and wanting to learn.

But the minute I don't put my gender, they just answer the question normally. No names, no patronizing. Why couldn't they just do that in the first place?

[Celtero]

Men are expected to be the breadwinner because that's what women want. Very few women are willing to date a man who makes less than them.

Women are being pushed into stem even if it's not what they're interested in. Lots of scholarships and programs designed to help women, and it would be stupid of them to say no to that free stuff. (which isn't available to men)

And jobs aren't unlimited ya know? Every jobs snatched up by a woman through affirmative action is one less job for a higher qualified man.

[SpiderManFan2002]

" Men are expected to be the breadwinner because that's what women want. Very few women are willing to date a man who makes less than them."
Is it really though? It what some women want, but not all. You'd be surprised at the amount of changes in girls and boys from my generation.

"Women are being pushed into stem even if it's not what they're interested in."
Again some women not all, and my intention wasn't to push uninterested women into STEM but to tell girls around my age to at least take an interest. How do they know they don't like it if they don't even try it?

[Celtero]

Seems like it was less about encouraging women and more about demonizing men.

Women do prefer higher earning men, whether you'd like to admit it or not.
Skip to "Gender identity and relative income within households"
voxeu.org/.../economic-consequences-gender-identity

[SpiderManFan2002]

See, this is where you are wrong.

By definition feminism is believing in the equal rights of both men and women. Both men and women can be feminists.

It's not about demonizing men, but if men are treating women wrongly a feminist will not be afraid to point it out. Equally, if women are treating men wrongly a feminist will not be afraid to point it out.

[Celtero]

Well in that case, feminism does a poor job at living up to its own definition, because it's really about creating a sense of victimhood to get free stuff for women.

Feminists would rather complain to get women more cozy jobs than fix issues like suicide and homelessness for men.

More women than men attending college, more women buying homes than men, yet we've gotta get men out of stem. OK!

[BellePepper]

In high school my math teacher told my mom “her brain just isn’t ready for algebra”

I took the classes in college with different teachers and did great.

I went into economics at university and my all male professors were nice enough until me or the four other girls in the department tried to ask them for an appointment during their office hours or for clarification on an assignment. I started only asking for help when I had a guy friend with me so that he could ask our questions and get answers without attitude and guilt tripping.

When I was applying to jobs a man interviewing me looked over my resume and said “economics? That’s not something a girl like you goes into.” Neither of my parents believe me that he actually said that.

So yes. There is pushback for women in STEM fields. I hope it changes even a little bit so it’s easier for people your age op.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Exactly, I can't believe a teacher who is supposed to encourage learning and improving yourself said that to you.

Yet, you get these men above denying discrimination against females?

I hope it changes too, and it's only going to happen if more people speak out and don't care what people think and the gender roles society has assigned us. :)

[BellePepper]

The worst part is that at the time I felt bad like it was my fault he didn’t want to teach me but now I realize how silly it was to think his issues were my problem

They love to tell women how we’re not discriminated against and it’s all in our heads. They might grow awareness some day but 🤷‍♀️

Wooo!!! I like your attitude! You’re 110% right!

[SpiderManFan2002]

It wasn't your fault. As a teacher he should have pushed you to succeed not said what he had said.

Fortunately, I am privileged enough to have teachers which would never say such a thing, but if a teacher did say that about me, I'd go home and study algebra until I understood it to prove to that teacher my brain is built for algebra, and that anyone's brain is built for anything they put their mind to.

Exactly, just because the discrimination isn't blatant and obvious doesn't mean it isn't there.

Thank you.

Just out of curiosity what do you do now?

[BellePepper]

I agree. He was a very bad teacher.

I’m so glad you have good teachers and are such a hard worker! That’s really good for and of you!

It is blatant and obvious but they’re in denial. Because if they admit that it’s happening they have to admit the roles they play in perpetuating the sexism and defending the sexism.

I take care of my grandma now since her dementia is getting worse and she can’t be home alone.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thank you and it is so sweet of you to care for your grandmother.

What was you career choice before this however?

[BellePepper]

I didn’t really get one. I got out of school during the recession and the only work I could find was in a call center and then my grandma needed me so...

I would like to be a purchasing agent or maybe work for the CIA but I’ll likely parlay my caregiving experience into health administration or something like that.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Well, whatever you want as a future career chase it, and eventually you'll catch it ;)
(unlike a dog who chases it's tail) :P

[BellePepper]

LOL! Thank you very much! I’m more than sure you will as well!

[Anonymous]

'STEM is the future, yet so many girls my age are discouraged from participating in these subjects. Why? Males and Females are born with the same blank brain. Take the gender aspect away from things, what are they? Human beings.'

*barf*

For example, on certain forum websites when I put that I am female, and ask a question concerning an issue that has arisen in my work, the males on that forum will make derogatory remarks. Be passive aggressive. Make me feel stupid, just because I don't know something. Yet when I keep my gender private their tone changes and they just answer the question. Why can't they just answer it in the first place rather regardless of my gender?

'Without even seeing my face some of the males have assumed I'm on that website to look for someone to flirt with, not for my work.

Girls shouldn't be afraid of doing the subjects, and boys should help encourage them, not put them down. If we all come together and help each other this immense gap will soon be none existent.'

So, what's your point? Seems to me you just want to complain.

If you like it or not there are major differences between male and female brains that are factly proven.
Girls have the legal right to enter stem, nothing blocks them from it.
But you don't have the legal right to force men and society to behave how you would like them to.
If you can't withstand the pressure, then that's your problem.
Don't try to make your problem the problem of others.

[SpiderManFan2002]

My point is that girls should take an interest and some not all guys need to learn to treat them with respect.

[randomn_girl]

its true, very true but sometimes its not only men supporting women or such... women ay want to do something different from stem... maybe... so that may also be the reason in the 1% decrease

always remember, there are two sides of a coin... maybe women don't get enough support... but another reason could be maybe some women aren't interested in it

anyway ~ nice my take
cheers

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thanks :)

I am aware of both sides, but a lot of girls aren't even introduced to the subjects, if they aren't even introduced to the subjects, then how can they show an interest in them subjects?

I'd really like to know the reason for the 1% decrease myself. If women want career changes because they feel STEM isn't for them fair enough move to something else.