Why do you think they’re being “discouraged”? So far as I can tell there are many people actively encouraging women to enter stem programs both monetarily and socially.
I’d have to slightly disagree on the brain issue because we do know that there are some differences, but I agree that the disparity of women working in stem is not a result of aptitude, rather, it appears to largely be that women just aren’t interested.
Lastly, I’d say that lots of people on the internet are asshats, that’s not cool, but I don’t know how or if we should stop them. You know, free speech and all that.
I don’t understand what you’re wanting me to do. I looked at some of them, and many stated that women are not discouraged to work in stem and the differences we see are a result of choices that individual women are making. Instead of wanting to pursue a degree in a stem field they’d rather get a degree in one of the humanities. In my field for example (psychology) almost 3/4s of the phd recipients are women. I don’t think this is a result of men being discouraged from entering the field though. I know that I at least was not.
There is a problem with sexual harassment in stem, which is a problem that needs to be rectified, but I’m not aware of any evidence to support the assertion that they’re being discriminated against or discouraged.
If your point in asking me to read others was just to point out that some people can be dicks than that’s a point I already conceded.
Then they complain when they lose a sexual harassment case and have to paid a lot to the woman even thou they should know work is not for hitting on females or be disrespect to females in that way if you don't get that then have fun paying sexual harassment fees just because you don't know how to behave in society. Which is why I decide to go in a mostly female field I keep dealing with creepy men I am so done with this behaviour they think it's cool.
Which makes no sense to me when I never gave them impression if they have a chance with me it's annoying most of these type of guys are so cocky when in reality they think they are the shit when they are not. Then complain when women wants hot guys, you mean guys they want to be with not you? lmaoooo
I don't want to discourage women from stem but I have heard stories from girls who do work in STEM and a lot of guys are rude in these fields like engineering for example you get guys you will believe your stupid just because you have a vagina which makes no sense since if there are female doctors you think females are smart enough for engineering but most of those guys are usually single for a reason.
But I will say for any girl who reading this if you really do want to do stem go through college then work your way up in University. I saw a article recently apparently most of the student loan debt in America is from women owning a lot of debt. Please try to find many ways as you can to save money and if you think you can handle jerks in your field go for it. Just remember you can always change fields it's not the end of the world.
@NatashaJ I'm not questioning that sexism exists or that men can be rude or any of that. I have been in the company of men who talked about women in disgusting ways.
However, I genuinely do find this topic interesting. And one thing I've noticed that's mentioned is people assuming unfair things because of your gender. But oftentimes these are the same people talking about male privilege. Is saying that guys are in the position they are in because society favors them not also reducing their achievements down to their gender? If I tell somebody who won an award that they won the award because the judge liked them I'm implying they should not have won the award or would not have if the judge didn't view them as extra special in some way. If I say somebody won an award and the judge didn't like them so they must have cheated to get it, I'm also saying they weren't deserving.
I'm genuinely curious to get your thoughts on this.
@JustMyTake Well I do believe in the work employee females do poorly because of their gender I saw on broadly that yes women do get a increase in pay but that at age 35 when men already have pay increase before they hit the age 35 therefore there is a pay gap because how do you explain why women are on average way more at age 35 then before? nowdays there are many women and men that are in high positions that should not be in those positions because they shitty at their job. Retail are prime example of this a lot of companies will hire someone that knows someone in that company then a random stranger that quality for the job. I don't think people hate on people who earn more because of their gender it's more about trying to ask why this person is earning more while people don't earn as much. Like people wonder why the CEO of youtube who a woman right now still has her job even thou she shitty at it. But it turns out she the sister of the wife of the guy who created/owns google.
@NatashaJ I have no idea what broadly is, I'm more so pointing out the contradiction. Absolutely there are many people who are very bad at their jobs. No argument there.
I was more talking about the perception of gender than people who are bad at their jobs. That the same people saying men are accusing women of obtaining their status because of underhanded actions are also accusing men of obtaining their status by keeping women down.
If you were born a male, I might actually believe you that you know what it means to be "discouraged." I think you aren't having your ass kissed every step of the way like you're used to, and that's what you're calling "discouragement."
If you were a man, you would have already killed yourself by now.
Im entering the electro mechanical engineering half of my degree. My dad called me "Tink" short for Tinkerbell for my habit of picking apart electronics and putting them back together. At 10yrs old, I took apart three toys, moved the wiring so my one dragon toy could light up and make sound effects.
Love that shit.
The men in my class and intership job will ask me for help, or how I figured something out, they also high five m
*high five me and the professor cheers me on to do well, as I am not only 1 of 3 girls, but I am the only black girl in that STEM field, in the history of that college. EVER. They want to feature me in a local Engineering mag once I graduate regarding that to encourage both girls and minoroties.
Now there's no one putting us down. The jerkish men are like the KKK who lost sight of why society was as is, and could not adapt.
STEM jobs before, were EXTREMELY dangerous and harsh labor wise. Machines did not run off computer chips, required man power to crank, pull, grind, pressurize or move. Work conditions were dangerous and dirty.
It was preferred that women be safe and not faced with that. Even some heavy tech companies dont hire women onto the floor for that reason.
But, as innovation grew, the environment softened. Society is still adapting. Its nothing prejudice.
I love coding, I got the software portion down but really want to get into mechanical / robotic design. I want to get on board with creating futuristic hands off technology and "Smart Cities." Or medical technology is pretty interesting too!
I'm glad to see you just went for it, I'm the same but I feel if more girls were encouraged they would also go for it. How can they go for it, if nobody tells them about it?
And as for coding, I just prefer it as it is my strongest point.
"Males and Females are born with the same blank brain." Nope. There's your first problem. Building on that, the life experiences that follow won't be the same either. We can't expect everyone to be the same.
Those figures speak for themselves? What do you think they are saying? It's a bunch of figures without causes. It says to me that there are fewer women in STEM but where's the problem? That is not in conflict with equality, all people should have the right to pursue the profession they want.
Your gender indicates your perspective and influences other people perception of your perspective; context.
My point is men and women are born with the same blank brain.
It's what they are exposed to, that makes them the person they are.
And many women have reported unfairness in the STEM industry, sexism and harassment.
"Your gender indicates your perspective and influences other people perception of your perspective; context" Not really. It's what society have made genders to be.
Good Take, but humans aren’t born with the same brain. The reason there’s such a gap is because men naturally are more interested in mathematics and science- while women aren’t. It’s not sexism or gender stereotypes, and it doesn’t mean men are smarter. They’re just better at some subjects.
Is it really that though? Or is that the narrative society have created and we blindly like sheep follow it?
Yes I am aware that information is processed differently, and so on. But that doesn't make one gender better than the other gender at a certain subject.
They may just have different ways of doing things, but come to the same conclusion. One's conclusion may be more efficient than the others but I'm sure the other can learn the more efficient way of doing things.
I’ve studied the topic, as I was curious myself. Yes, it really is that. There have been hundreds of studies proving men use an important part of the brain, the part that is used for mathematics and science, more then women. This isn’t saying ALL men are better then ALL women, of course there’s some women who excel at those subjects as well.
It says you're a student what are you going into? Are you going into a STEM field? Is that what sparked this?
Women's and Men's brains actually do have noticeable differences sometimes meaning there are skills that MOST women are good at and other skills MOST men are good at. This could easily be the reason MOST women don't go into STEM fields.
Literally the only way to fix this is to strip women of their occupational choice and force them into STEM fields. Anyone advocating for "equality" in STEM is really saying "My insatiable desire for diversity is more important than women's rights." Women not liking STEM fields creates zero problems for society.
The biggest problem is that a lot of girls choose science careers that are the most competitive because so many people are doing pharmacy, nursing, medical degree or biology which is why ONE of the factor but girls mostly need to spread their choice of science careers like physic, earth and computing science.
Exactly! In my computer science class at school, we are a class of 10 pupils, and only 3 are girls.
A lot of girls in my opinion, are often put down by the guys, not all the guys, a lot I have come across are actually really nice and supportive. But then I also get the negative ones who are just really patronizing.
Girls shouldn't be put off just because these areas are extremely male dominated.
Why don't we talk about the gender divide in higher education, why is it that its only a problem when there aren't enough women, but when men continue to fail and fall, that is equality?
@genuinlysensitive tha ks for the downvote but she asked a very specific question so obviously and logically I have to give a relevant and specific answer so if she asked that I would have glad talk about why so many teachers in nursery or young child schools are mainly female staff but shw didn't, did she?
Typical feminist BS. They create an educational environment hostile to men, then as men are pushed out of education, complain because there are too many men in education.
"yet so many girls my age are discouraged from participating in these subjects"
No they're not. They're actively encouraged. Them being discouraged is an old feminist talking point from decades ago.
"the males on that forum will make derogatory remarks" Then ignore them. You can't blame the ill-behaviour of certain individuals on society as a whole.
"Girls shouldn't be afraid of doing the subjects," If they're that easily scared then maybe they don't belong.
"Why can't they just answer it in the first place rather regardless of my gender?" Because they in particular are asholes and you should ignore them and/ or report them.
"and boys should help encourage them" No one owes anyone that. Everyone should just focus on getting in and prove themselves, not expect rose pedals on the walkway.
In that picture, him telling her that she sucks at math wouldn't have been as effective whereas telling the other guy that men suck at math would have been weird coming from him.
Not one or the other because a statistic has to be adhered to.
Who is the best? The selection process decides. It could be wrong, that's life.
------------------ On a rant here:
Life or nature isn't always fair, we all have to deal with it. Some more than others. Your opinion probably arises from a felt injustice which may or may not be true.
But reallly, there are bigger problems in the world.
Like keeping planet earth healthy. Wars. And a population explosion in the third world.
You'd be surprised about how many girls are told not to do STEM subjects.
If I got £1 for the amount of times people have said to me about doing CS: "Are you sure?" "That's really hard." "But a lot of guys do that." "If I were you I'd move into a subject with more girls in it"
Well, guess what I told my MALE friend just the other day? The guy is planning to learn computer science, but maths was never his strong side. I asked him: "Are you sure?" "That's really hard!" "A lot of annyoing, boring people do it." "If I were you, I'd try a subject more fitting for you" Each and every one of those are true for him. I KNOW he will suck at it. So does that mean I am discouraging him? Or am I just a realist?
And guess what people told me before going to mechatronical engineering, probably one of the hardest courses in my country? "Are you sure?" "Sounds really hard" "You'll have troubke finding a girlfriend"
The only reason why I escaped most negative comments is because I was a regular in maths competitions. My classmate that chose the same course (and surprise, failed to be accepted) was treated to a lot more discouragement. Does that mean we are discouraging boys from STEM too?
The reality is that people love to drag others down, because they love to project their own insecurities on you. This is regardless of gender. In fact girls have it harder in STEM fields, BECAUSE they always have strong male shoulders to lean on. (NO I am not joking, I know plenty of girls who have a harem of guys getting them through the semester).
You should shut your ears to toxic people, and not blame society for discriminating against you. I had just as hard a time as anyone else getting into the course I am, and staying there. Don't take away from my acheivements by suggesting that somewhere there is a girl better than me who was discouraged.
Oh, and let me tell you something else. A female friend, who is really smart, was graduating last year. I encouraged him to learn maths, because I know that's her strong side. She started learning fucking accounting.
Other female friend - finished in the second best highschool in the country - now she's learning sociology.
I know why I'm not in STEM. Because I'm not good at those subjects. It's not that I can't do them, it's just not my first or automatic inclination/ interest. And before you spew some bullshit about self-esteem or internalized misogyny, check your own. It is utterly ridiculous to try to socially engineer these types of things. Women who are good at this type of stuff should be free to pursue them. But don't try to drag those who aren't into it or try to kindle interest where there is none.
I wanted to major in math, but my mom discouraged me cause she thought the only job that will exist for me is a teacher. I wanted to be a civil engineer and my dad told me that job isn’t ideal for women. No one encouraged me to study engineering even though the college I went to had a great engineering department. go figure
Exactly! Yet women aren't discouraged from doing STEM according to some people.
Two years ago in school I wanted to start a coding club, nobody encouraged me. The teachers basically listened to my idea and completely disregarded it.
People talking shit on the internet is the best example of women being discouraged from stem fields? Colleges, schools, and the us government are promoting stem fields for anyone and everyone interested. No one is obligated to help you, in fact other students might not want you to succeed because ultimately you will be their competition for stem jobs after college. Some people are cooperative by nature and others are competitive. I see both sides of the coin, and there is logic behind both behaviors. The more qualified stem workers are out in the job pool, benefits employers and the wages ultimately will be lower. Scarcity of qualified workers benefits the few who are in the trade. It gives them higher wages, and more power and leverage over their employeers. If you are a dime a dozen then they dont give a shit about you and can exploit you more easily.
We are all born with certain characteristics right from the start. It's biological. Men are naturally better at x and women are naturally better at y. It's not something we learn or develop. We are born that way. Men are more interested in STEM field and dangerous jobs and women are more interested in hospital jobs, teaching, communication. That's why we have more men in STEM fields. Women are not being discouraged or whatever. It's a natural choice. Men are not to blame for your problems.
Good god this again... It boils down to personal choice. There are so few women in stem because... Shocker, few women actually want to be in stem. Take my job as a for instance. I am an IT Engineer. I have to deal with trouble tickets and calls 8 to 12 hours a day. I have to get dirty, crawl above ceilings and under floors. I have to risk electrocution, i have to lift heavy stuff and i work between 50 and 80 hours per week... No women that i know of want to work that much, they just don't, they prefer to sit in an office in the air conditioning working maybe 6 hours a day or less.
I do agree with you women should not be afraid of working in stem, but you have to get them to want to do it.
Basically let women be and do what they want. Respect their choices. You seem to to be the time that would shame a woman that wants to be a mom and take care of children.. which is an incredible noble and valuable job by the way..
And what if girls just aren't as interested in that field as guys? What's the point of it? Telling girls "invade all the stuff guys are interested in and take control"? And why don't you push girl to be interested in dirty and hard jobs, like construction workers or garbage collectors? Where are the girls in those jobs?
I see people proning equality, but only where it's convenient. As for the rest, the hard jobs, well men can keep it to themselves, it's ok, right?
No, you've seen less girls there than guys, which is true, no one is denying it. But that doesn't mean guys a pushing girls out of it. Just that girls aren't really interested in that field. As much as they aren't interested in construction work or garbage collect. And on the opposite side, most jobs with kids, as teachers, nurses, kindergarten employees are filled with women, with a few guys here and there. I tried to work in that field, and I've been clearly told that "it's not a job for a man". This is how it is. Men are interested in some stuff, women in other stuff, something they become interested in an unusual field, like you and me, but we're still a minority.
Why does it need to change? What's the purpose of it? Any girl wanting to go there can, but they don't. Are you going to try to force them to go there just because there are too many guys to your liking? Why not doing the same in other fields where men are still a majority? If you want equality, you want equality everywhere. Or you don't. And you certainly won't achieve anything with an argument as shallow as "there are too many guys here, come on girls let's go there and take over it".
My degree is in Mechanica Engineering. I went to those forums for help with physics and math as well. Even my drafting stuff. They made me feel stupid and acted passive aggressive too. Even some of my classmates. Maybe it has nothing to do with you being female and everything to do with the fact that you’re dealing with the typical rigors of getting a stem degree? I can tell you first hand that engineering is a damn sausage fest and we want women working with us. The fact is that men’s brains differ from women’s in the sense that men are going to be more gifted in logic based subjects. Most women have no desire to do engineering. However if they do, we welcome them with open arms.
I really don't understand what's so controversial about men and women being different... and those differences having measurable results. The whole reason our species evolved to have sexual dimorphism is so that the 2 sexes could specialize at different survival jobs. That specialization is still with us and it can make a difference to how we behave in modern times.
Almost every university with an engineering dept has a chapter. If you're interested in becoming an engineer some day, check it out. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
67Opinion
Why do you think they’re being “discouraged”? So far as I can tell there are many people actively encouraging women to enter stem programs both monetarily and socially.
I’d have to slightly disagree on the brain issue because we do know that there are some differences, but I agree that the disparity of women working in stem is not a result of aptitude, rather, it appears to largely be that women just aren’t interested.
Lastly, I’d say that lots of people on the internet are asshats, that’s not cool, but I don’t know how or if we should stop them. You know, free speech and all that.
Read some of the opinions of some of the females on this myTake and tell me differently.
I don’t understand what you’re wanting me to do. I looked at some of them, and many stated that women are not discouraged to work in stem and the differences we see are a result of choices that individual women are making. Instead of wanting to pursue a degree in a stem field they’d rather get a degree in one of the humanities. In my field for example (psychology) almost 3/4s of the phd recipients are women. I don’t think this is a result of men being discouraged from entering the field though. I know that I at least was not.
There is a problem with sexual harassment in stem, which is a problem that needs to be rectified, but I’m not aware of any evidence to support the assertion that they’re being discriminated against or discouraged.
If your point in asking me to read others was just to point out that some people can be dicks than that’s a point I already conceded.
Then they complain when they lose a sexual harassment case and have to paid a lot to the woman even thou they should know work is not for hitting on females or be disrespect to females in that way if you don't get that then have fun paying sexual harassment fees just because you don't know how to behave in society. Which is why I decide to go in a mostly female field I keep dealing with creepy men I am so done with this behaviour they think it's cool.
Which makes no sense to me when I never gave them impression if they have a chance with me it's annoying most of these type of guys are so cocky when in reality they think they are the shit when they are not. Then complain when women wants hot guys, you mean guys they want to be with not you? lmaoooo
This is the issue.
Of course a lot of women are discouraged from STEM subjects.
I don't want to discourage women from stem but I have heard stories from girls who do work in STEM and a lot of guys are rude in these fields like engineering for example you get guys you will believe your stupid just because you have a vagina which makes no sense since if there are female doctors you think females are smart enough for engineering but most of those guys are usually single for a reason.
Exactly.
But I will say for any girl who reading this if you really do want to do stem go through college then work your way up in University. I saw a article recently apparently most of the student loan debt in America is from women owning a lot of debt. Please try to find many ways as you can to save money and if you think you can handle jerks in your field go for it. Just remember you can always change fields it's not the end of the world.
@NatashaJ I'm not questioning that sexism exists or that men can be rude or any of that. I have been in the company of men who talked about women in disgusting ways.
However, I genuinely do find this topic interesting. And one thing I've noticed that's mentioned is people assuming unfair things because of your gender. But oftentimes these are the same people talking about male privilege. Is saying that guys are in the position they are in because society favors them not also reducing their achievements down to their gender? If I tell somebody who won an award that they won the award because the judge liked them I'm implying they should not have won the award or would not have if the judge didn't view them as extra special in some way. If I say somebody won an award and the judge didn't like them so they must have cheated to get it, I'm also saying they weren't deserving.
I'm genuinely curious to get your thoughts on this.
@JustMyTake Well I do believe in the work employee females do poorly because of their gender I saw on broadly that yes women do get a increase in pay but that at age 35 when men already have pay increase before they hit the age 35 therefore there is a pay gap because how do you explain why women are on average way more at age 35 then before? nowdays there are many women and men that are in high positions that should not be in those positions because they shitty at their job. Retail are prime example of this a lot of companies will hire someone that knows someone in that company then a random stranger that quality for the job. I don't think people hate on people who earn more because of their gender it's more about trying to ask why this person is earning more while people don't earn as much. Like people wonder why the CEO of youtube who a woman right now still has her job even thou she shitty at it. But it turns out she the sister of the wife of the guy who created/owns google.
@NatashaJ I have no idea what broadly is, I'm more so pointing out the contradiction. Absolutely there are many people who are very bad at their jobs. No argument there.
I was more talking about the perception of gender than people who are bad at their jobs. That the same people saying men are accusing women of obtaining their status because of underhanded actions are also accusing men of obtaining their status by keeping women down.
"They're discouraging girls from learning math and science!"
Yeah, NO. . .
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P f f t, the second one made me spit all over my screen f u c k.
If you saw some of the responses I have got from being a girl in CS you too would find it extremely discouraging.
Yeah probably
If you were born a male, I might actually believe you that you know what it means to be "discouraged." I think you aren't having your ass kissed every step of the way like you're used to, and that's what you're calling "discouragement."
If you were a man, you would have already killed yourself by now.
Im entering the electro mechanical engineering half of my degree. My dad called me "Tink" short for Tinkerbell for my habit of picking apart electronics and putting them back together. At 10yrs old, I took apart three toys, moved the wiring so my one dragon toy could light up and make sound effects.
Love that shit.
The men in my class and intership job will ask me for help, or how I figured something out, they also high five m
That's nice, this is what I like to hear :)
It was my father who got me into computer science, and I taught my little brother to code. My dad called me coco digit for a while as well :)
*high five me and the professor cheers me on to do well, as I am not only 1 of 3 girls, but I am the only black girl in that STEM field, in the history of that college. EVER. They want to feature me in a local Engineering mag once I graduate regarding that to encourage both girls and minoroties.
Now there's no one putting us down. The jerkish men are like the KKK who lost sight of why society was as is, and could not adapt.
STEM jobs before, were EXTREMELY dangerous and harsh labor wise. Machines did not run off computer chips, required man power to crank, pull, grind, pressurize or move. Work conditions were dangerous and dirty.
It was preferred that women be safe and not faced with that. Even some heavy tech companies dont hire women onto the floor for that reason.
But, as innovation grew, the environment softened. Society is still adapting. Its nothing prejudice.
I did what the STEM loving girls before me did.
Jusr went for it. Encouraged or not.
XD @ cocodigits!
I love coding, I got the software portion down but really want to get into mechanical / robotic design. I want to get on board with creating futuristic hands off technology and "Smart Cities."
Or medical technology is pretty interesting too!
I'm glad to see you just went for it, I'm the same but I feel if more girls were encouraged they would also go for it. How can they go for it, if nobody tells them about it?
And as for coding, I just prefer it as it is my strongest point.
"Males and Females are born with the same blank brain."
Nope. There's your first problem. Building on that, the life experiences that follow won't be the same either. We can't expect everyone to be the same.
Those figures speak for themselves?
What do you think they are saying? It's a bunch of figures without causes. It says to me that there are fewer women in STEM but where's the problem? That is not in conflict with equality, all people should have the right to pursue the profession they want.
Your gender indicates your perspective and influences other people perception of your perspective; context.
" "Males and Females are born with the same blank brain."
Nope. There's your first problem. "
Haha, I was about to reply with that same exact thing.
My point is men and women are born with the same blank brain.
It's what they are exposed to, that makes them the person they are.
And many women have reported unfairness in the STEM industry, sexism and harassment.
"Your gender indicates your perspective and influences other people perception of your perspective; context"
Not really. It's what society have made genders to be.
"My point is men and women are born with the same blank brain."
In some aspects yes, in others no. It's a combination of nature and nurture.
"reported unfairness in the STEM industry"
and many have reported that it's totally fair if not in their favor.
"It's what society have made genders to be"
What's that supposed to mean?
Good Take, but humans aren’t born with the same brain. The reason there’s such a gap is because men naturally are more interested in mathematics and science- while women aren’t. It’s not sexism or gender stereotypes, and it doesn’t mean men are smarter. They’re just better at some subjects.
Is it really that though? Or is that the narrative society have created and we blindly like sheep follow it?
Yes I am aware that information is processed differently, and so on. But that doesn't make one gender better than the other gender at a certain subject.
They may just have different ways of doing things, but come to the same conclusion. One's conclusion may be more efficient than the others but I'm sure the other can learn the more efficient way of doing things.
I’ve studied the topic, as I was curious myself. Yes, it really is that. There have been hundreds of studies proving men use an important part of the brain, the part that is used for mathematics and science, more then women. This isn’t saying ALL men are better then ALL women, of course there’s some women who excel at those subjects as well.
Yes, men do use that part of the brain, but that's not to say women cannot.
I am curious, if men use a part of the brain which is better for Maths and science then what do women use more often?
It says you're a student what are you going into? Are you going into a STEM field? Is that what sparked this?
Women's and Men's brains actually do have noticeable differences sometimes meaning there are skills that MOST women are good at and other skills MOST men are good at. This could easily be the reason MOST women don't go into STEM fields.
Literally the only way to fix this is to strip women of their occupational choice and force them into STEM fields. Anyone advocating for "equality" in STEM is really saying "My insatiable desire for diversity is more important than women's rights." Women not liking STEM fields creates zero problems for society.
The biggest problem is that a lot of girls choose science careers that are the most competitive because so many people are doing pharmacy, nursing, medical degree or biology which is why ONE of the factor but girls mostly need to spread their choice of science careers like physic, earth and computing science.
Exactly!
In my computer science class at school, we are a class of 10 pupils, and only 3 are girls.
A lot of girls in my opinion, are often put down by the guys, not all the guys, a lot I have come across are actually really nice and supportive. But then I also get the negative ones who are just really patronizing.
Girls shouldn't be put off just because these areas are extremely male dominated.
Why don't we talk about the gender divide in higher education, why is it that its only a problem when there aren't enough women, but when men continue to fail and fall, that is equality?
@genuinlysensitive tha ks for the downvote but she asked a very specific question so obviously and logically I have to give a relevant and specific answer so if she asked that I would have glad talk about why so many teachers in nursery or young child schools are mainly female staff but shw didn't, did she?
@genuinlysensitive I can see why you so sensitive because your mere emotions overtaken your commonsense of how concept question and answer work lok.
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www.nytimes.com/.../09college.html
www.theguardian.com/.../how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university
Typical feminist BS. They create an educational environment hostile to men, then as men are pushed out of education, complain because there are too many men in education.
"yet so many girls my age are discouraged from participating in these subjects"
No they're not. They're actively encouraged. Them being discouraged is an old feminist talking point from decades ago.
"the males on that forum will make derogatory remarks"
Then ignore them. You can't blame the ill-behaviour of certain individuals on society as a whole.
"Girls shouldn't be afraid of doing the subjects,"
If they're that easily scared then maybe they don't belong.
"Why can't they just answer it in the first place rather regardless of my gender?"
Because they in particular are asholes and you should ignore them and/ or report them.
"and boys should help encourage them"
No one owes anyone that. Everyone should just focus on getting in and prove themselves, not expect rose pedals on the walkway.
"not put them down"
That's a given.
Being encouraged by the powers that be is one thing, but there are more subtle things going on.
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/how_it_works.png
@goaded people will use anything to get under someone's skin, that' just basic trolling for you.
In that picture, him telling her that she sucks at math wouldn't have been as effective whereas telling the other guy that men suck at math would have been weird coming from him.
May the best person get the job.
Not one or the other because a statistic has to be adhered to.
Who is the best? The selection process decides. It could be wrong, that's life.
------------------
On a rant here:
Life or nature isn't always fair, we all have to deal with it. Some more than others.
Your opinion probably arises from a felt injustice which may or may not be true.
But reallly, there are bigger problems in the world.
Like keeping planet earth healthy. Wars. And a population explosion in the third world.
The brain of men and women work differently. That is why men are more inclined to work in STEM fields.
Now, if you include STEMM, that is, Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics, Medicine - there are more women.
Seriously, stop seeing a problem where there is none. It is women's choice to learn it. Nobody is suppressing or discouraging them.
You'd be surprised about how many girls are told not to do STEM subjects.
If I got £1 for the amount of times people have said to me about doing CS:
"Are you sure?"
"That's really hard."
"But a lot of guys do that."
"If I were you I'd move into a subject with more girls in it"
If that isn't discouraging I don't know what is.
Well, guess what I told my MALE friend just the other day?
The guy is planning to learn computer science, but maths was never his strong side.
I asked him:
"Are you sure?"
"That's really hard!"
"A lot of annyoing, boring people do it."
"If I were you, I'd try a subject more fitting for you"
Each and every one of those are true for him. I KNOW he will suck at it. So does that mean I am discouraging him? Or am I just a realist?
And guess what people told me before going to mechatronical engineering, probably one of the hardest courses in my country?
"Are you sure?"
"Sounds really hard"
"You'll have troubke finding a girlfriend"
The only reason why I escaped most negative comments is because I was a regular in maths competitions. My classmate that chose the same course (and surprise, failed to be accepted) was treated to a lot more discouragement. Does that mean we are discouraging boys from STEM too?
The reality is that people love to drag others down, because they love to project their own insecurities on you. This is regardless of gender. In fact girls have it harder in STEM fields, BECAUSE they always have strong male shoulders to lean on. (NO I am not joking, I know plenty of girls who have a harem of guys getting them through the semester).
You should shut your ears to toxic people, and not blame society for discriminating against you. I had just as hard a time as anyone else getting into the course I am, and staying there. Don't take away from my acheivements by suggesting that somewhere there is a girl better than me who was discouraged.
Oh, and let me tell you something else. A female friend, who is really smart, was graduating last year. I encouraged him to learn maths, because I know that's her strong side.
She started learning fucking accounting.
Other female friend - finished in the second best highschool in the country - now she's learning sociology.
At some point, you have to realise that girls just don't like hard sciences as much as guys.
Accounting involves a lot of Maths.
Trust me, her maths is kindergarten shit.
I don't want to trash accounting (I could, but what's the point), what I objectively know is taht she traded down as compared to her own abilities.
I know why I'm not in STEM. Because I'm not good at those subjects. It's not that I can't do them, it's just not my first or automatic inclination/ interest. And before you spew some bullshit about self-esteem or internalized misogyny, check your own. It is utterly ridiculous to try to socially engineer these types of things. Women who are good at this type of stuff should be free to pursue them. But don't try to drag those who aren't into it or try to kindle interest where there is none.
Agreed!
I wanted to major in math, but my mom discouraged me cause she thought the only job that will exist for me is a teacher. I wanted to be a civil engineer and my dad told me that job isn’t ideal for women. No one encouraged me to study engineering even though the college I went to had a great engineering department. go figure
That's a shame. What did you decide to do?
@JZ909 practice law
Well, I hope you enjoy it. I'm glad you're in a job where you still need to use a high degree of reason and analytical thinking.
Exactly! Yet women aren't discouraged from doing STEM according to some people.
Two years ago in school I wanted to start a coding club, nobody encouraged me. The teachers basically listened to my idea and completely disregarded it.
Had I have been a boy would've it been different?
People talking shit on the internet is the best example of women being discouraged from stem fields? Colleges, schools, and the us government are promoting stem fields for anyone and everyone interested. No one is obligated to help you, in fact other students might not want you to succeed because ultimately you will be their competition for stem jobs after college. Some people are cooperative by nature and others are competitive. I see both sides of the coin, and there is logic behind both behaviors. The more qualified stem workers are out in the job pool, benefits employers and the wages ultimately will be lower. Scarcity of qualified workers benefits the few who are in the trade. It gives them higher wages, and more power and leverage over their employeers. If you are a dime a dozen then they dont give a shit about you and can exploit you more easily.
"Males and Females are born with the same blank brain."
Well, clearly you either flunked biology and don't know your facts, or you aced SJW classes and became dishonest...
Educate yourself kiddo! Male and female brains are indeed very different, not blank.
www.psychologytoday.com/.../brain-differences-between-genders
stanmed.stanford.edu/.../...ins-are-different.html
I meant at birth males and females both have a blank brain.
They don't come out of their mother with all these gender stereotypes. That is engraved within them, I should have been clearer.
We are all born with certain characteristics right from the start. It's biological. Men are naturally better at x and women are naturally better at y. It's not something we learn or develop. We are born that way. Men are more interested in STEM field and dangerous jobs and women are more interested in hospital jobs, teaching, communication. That's why we have more men in STEM fields. Women are not being discouraged or whatever. It's a natural choice. Men are not to blame for your problems.
Have you considered that much of what we call gender stereotypes might be the result of actual inborn brain differences between men and women?
Good god this again... It boils down to personal choice. There are so few women in stem because... Shocker, few women actually want to be in stem. Take my job as a for instance. I am an IT Engineer. I have to deal with trouble tickets and calls 8 to 12 hours a day. I have to get dirty, crawl above ceilings and under floors. I have to risk electrocution, i have to lift heavy stuff and i work between 50 and 80 hours per week... No women that i know of want to work that much, they just don't, they prefer to sit in an office in the air conditioning working maybe 6 hours a day or less.
I do agree with you women should not be afraid of working in stem, but you have to get them to want to do it.
Basically let women be and do what they want. Respect their choices. You seem to to be the time that would shame a woman that wants to be a mom and take care of children.. which is an incredible noble and valuable job by the way..
And what if girls just aren't as interested in that field as guys? What's the point of it?
Telling girls "invade all the stuff guys are interested in and take control"?
And why don't you push girl to be interested in dirty and hard jobs, like construction workers or garbage collectors? Where are the girls in those jobs?
I see people proning equality, but only where it's convenient. As for the rest, the hard jobs, well men can keep it to themselves, it's ok, right?
That's not what I am trying to do.
STEM is an interest of mine which I have seen a clear gender divide, I just want to point it out.
No, you've seen less girls there than guys, which is true, no one is denying it. But that doesn't mean guys a pushing girls out of it. Just that girls aren't really interested in that field. As much as they aren't interested in construction work or garbage collect.
And on the opposite side, most jobs with kids, as teachers, nurses, kindergarten employees are filled with women, with a few guys here and there. I tried to work in that field, and I've been clearly told that "it's not a job for a man".
This is how it is. Men are interested in some stuff, women in other stuff, something they become interested in an unusual field, like you and me, but we're still a minority.
sometimes*
That's how it may be but it needs to change.
You shouldn't have been pushed away from teaching because it's female dominated.
Guys pushing girls out of STEM is one factor. But it isn't the only one. It's because people have been taught what you have been taught as well.
That: "some jobs are meant for men others for women a small minority will always work in that field, but that's how it is"
It doesn't have to be like that.
Why does it need to change? What's the purpose of it? Any girl wanting to go there can, but they don't. Are you going to try to force them to go there just because there are too many guys to your liking?
Why not doing the same in other fields where men are still a majority? If you want equality, you want equality everywhere. Or you don't. And you certainly won't achieve anything with an argument as shallow as "there are too many guys here, come on girls let's go there and take over it".
My degree is in Mechanica Engineering. I went to those forums for help with physics and math as well. Even my drafting stuff. They made me feel stupid and acted passive aggressive too. Even some of my classmates. Maybe it has nothing to do with you being female and everything to do with the fact that you’re dealing with the typical rigors of getting a stem degree? I can tell you first hand that engineering is a damn sausage fest and we want women working with us. The fact is that men’s brains differ from
women’s in the sense that men are going to be more gifted in logic based subjects. Most women have no desire to do engineering. However if they do, we welcome them with open arms.
I really don't understand what's so controversial about men and women being different... and those differences having measurable results.
The whole reason our species evolved to have sexual dimorphism is so that the 2 sexes could specialize at different survival jobs. That specialization is still with us and it can make a difference to how we behave in modern times.
I'm and engineer and love my job and I'm making more money doing it at age 30 than I ever dreamed I'd me making.
My biggest give back to girls coming up is to mentor them and help bring them along.
I'm also part of a SWE (Society of Women Engineers) group that goes into high schools and encourages girls to go into STEM careers.
That's great!
We need more organizations like SWE.
In my area there isn't really a lot of that.
Almost every university with an engineering dept has a chapter. If you're interested in becoming an engineer some day, check it out. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.