Let's see nurses require 4 years of training & know 1/4th what doctor's do.
Doctors require 10-14 years of training & know 4 times what a nurse does.
Yeah let's pay the people who more often than not muck up & who do NOT save lives because it is NOT their field... as much as people who typically undo the nurses' screwups AND save lives.
And I've seen some nurses while waiting in hospitals that should be fired immediately such as the tirage shit for brains nurse 2 days ago who told a woman having severe breathing issues to go sit in the chair while she prettied herself up... well the patient ended up collapsing right then and there from close to fucking anaphylactic shock.
Not to mention the dipshit nurse that couldn't read or comprehend SIMPLE instructions from a doctor and CONTINUED to administer a STOPPED medication to my friend while in hospital and this happens A LOT. I know. Because working in pharmacy we're also the stop gag to stop stupid nurses.
Furthermore a nurse NEVER acts without a doctor's instructions. If she does, and she fucks up, she is liable to losing her license, losing her job & if the outcome is severe lawsuits
@BlackBeauty90 Look I don't think nurses should get paid more than doctors either, for many of the reasons you mentioned. However, saying the whole group of nurses shouldn't get paid more because of some of them are incompetent is like saying doctors and surgeons shouldn't get paid more than they do because of the ones that commit malpractice. Are there nurses who are incompetent, of course, they've either forgotten their training, didn't really learn it well to begin with or simply don't care which unfortunately can happen when demand for a particular field is high and employers get desperate for staffing. I also don't know where you get the impression that nurses don't save lives, I would think keeping people from dying is saving lives. I mean some get the opportunity to do that, and thankfully some don't because they don't need too, depends on the situation. However, I have likely prevented patients from dying in the hospital on many occasions. I've recognized early signs or a stemi, CVA also determined when I've had patients go septic, or are dangerously hypoglycemic, really a whole number of situations, and sometimes these patients have come right to the floor from the ER or OR having recently been seen by a doctor, not that doctors missed it but things can change quicky, and really there are so many things that can go wrong when a patient is acutely ill or post surgical. Which is part of the reason are role exists, doctors and surgeons can be there all the time so we have to be their eyes and ears. Now, I don't any of this for a thank you or praise I do it because I like helping people, and I am good at it. I just think it's weird that all of us nurses should get a bad name because of the ones like you mentioned that are incompetent.
@whirled_up_girl You're trying to reason with a troll, luv. She'll cite one example of a nurse who fucked up, and it happened to her friend, while doctors also fuck up every day. They misdiagnose, they don't see allergic reaction listings, etc. Many doctors and nurses work crazy shifts sometimes due to shortages. Mistakes get made. There are horrible doctors, there are horrible nurses.
Save your energy when dealing with this troll, and have a great day! :)
@loveslongnails Good to know, thanks!
@loveslongnails ROFL. YOU'RE the troll hence your LOW MHO moron
There should be some system that takes into account how long it takes to go through school, and also how much it costs to go through school. Ideally, we should all get paid a reasonable amount for doing a reasonable amount of work. We should not have some people getting paid $2K/day for their work, and other people getting paid $80/day for working roughly the same hours.
Yes, some jobs have more responsibility, require more training. Others require physical strength and stamina, and exposure to hazardous environmental factors. Some people sit all day at work, others stand or walk around, moving heavy objects. Some work is mentally or emotionally draining, others physically. But when it comes down to it, everyone should be able to live and feel proud and do well in their life.
Not actual numbers, but let's say a doctor has to go to school for 8 years and do a 4 year residency. A RN has to do 3-4 years of school. Both will have debt, but when it comes to the work they do, both are working hard and deserve good pay. Maybe there should be some bonus to both of them that pays for their schooling?
First of all it is not really viable because you need more nurses than doctors and if you pay nurses as much as doctors then the health care expenses are going to be so high barely anyone could afford them anymore and therefore most people will just die outside the hospital and you don`t even need the nurses anymore.
Second reason is that it would be unfair. Yes nurses do a lot of hard work and they should be cherished for that, but doctors have to study for way longer ( and they don`t earn much money during that time) and also have more responsibilities. So it would be unfair for someone to not get paid more even though they have to be better qualified, have to study longer to be so and have more responsibilities to carry. A nurse is asking the doctor in a difficult medical situation what to do (if the doctor is not a complete newbie and the nurse a 30 year veteran that is, but that would be an unfair comparison) and not the other way around.
By the way I`m neither a nurse nor a doctor so my take on this one is neutral.
I had surgery in the last couple of weeks, I was in the hospital for 2 nights as I waited for the actual surgery and also as I recovered from the first night of surgery. I interacted with my surgeon maybe twice in that time, once before the surgery and once after the surgery. The nurses were godsends, after waiting for 6 hours on an empty stomach on copies of CT scans they decided to do anyway, the nurse in charge of me made sure I was fed and had some snacks before I called it a night. They were diligent, always kind, and gave me exactly what I needed when I needed it. Doctors do important and life saving medical procedures, my surgery being one of those, and absolutely deserve the high pay they receive for that work but nurses need to be paid more as well for staying up through all those hours and making sure all their patients are surviving.
They get compensated by working three 12 hour days and getting paid for 40 hours. Then they get 4 days off a week.
I still say they deserve to get paid the same as doctors
I'm glad to hear your surgery went well.
If they wound up with owing $400,000 in student loans debt to get their medical license, like a doctor, then maybe. A person has to have 4 years or college, 4 years of medical school, and 4 years of residency before they can even to begin to make any real money. A nursing degree you can get in 4.
@cupcakethedestroyer - hardly. What they provided to you is stuff they are TOLD to do by the doctor. WHY do you think you weren't allowed to eat before? Because the doctor said NOT TO fed you. When everything was done & said the doctor said okay you can feed her. The nurses NEVER acted of their own accord ONCE.
Who put a stick up your ass? If you’re mad I like a nurse more than a doctor, that’s a you problem
Opinion
48Opinion
Well I am a nurse and I say no. I know how much more schooling and training doctors get to earn the title and pay that they are getting. They also have much higher school debt to pay off. I would never pretend to think I know as much as them either even though we do have to know a lot. The way I looked at it we are not trained to know or be able to do as much as them but we can take of the things that they are too busy to do. We can also learn different skills and do different things to help patients at the same time working as part of the team with each of the team members having a different role to play towards achieving the same goal.
@Guffrus Actually we can be held responsible for mistakes usually ones that we make but also if mistakes from others are made and we miss them. If lab screws up and sends the wrong blood we could be liable for missing that mistake and administering it, that's why most facilities have the double check for that, or if a doctor order the wrong medication and we suspect it's wrong but we don't clarity it with the doctor. That is why the American Nurse Association and other nursing organizations suggest nurses purchase liability insurance because we can get sued.
@Guffrus They are mainly responsible for diagnosis and treatment and to make medical decisions regarding the patient’s medical care. I never said I knew more or was more important than the doctor. If you read my comment you’ll see I indicated we do different skills for the patient because we do, no where did I say the doctors had less responsibility then the nurses
just that we are responsible for mistakes made as well. I’m not sure argument what we’re having here I’m agreeing that nurses should not get paid more and cited the reasons.
@Guffrus Okay, fair enough.
@beebella - No because they do far less & they know far less. To be a nurse you require a basic 4 years of education. To be a doctor you require as a minimum 10 years & if you are a specialist well that's even more education.
Furthermore a nurse can NOT act without instructions as provided by a doctor. @cupcakethedestroyer you may have seen the surgeon twice but trust me as a medical specialist myself he was overseeing your care far more than any of those nurses.
It is illegal all across the world for a nurse to do anything in the care of a patient that they have not been instructed to. If they do, as someone else said, they can lose their job, they can lose their license and if the outcome is bad they may even end up sued.
A nurse can not prescribe or give medication without orders.
A nurse can not feed or even give water to a patient without clearance from a doctor.
@beebella
Well, I agree with most of what you said but there are some things we actually can do as a nurse without permission or orders. For instance we can assess a patient's status by checking vitals, blood sugar, neuro checks, respiratory status, GI status etc. even though those checks might not be specially ordered for that patient or at the time of the schedule and in fact we should do that if we suspect that something is abnormal. Now if an assessment requires a lab test, imaging or something costly then yes, that is going to require either a doctors order or a protocol that gives the nurse permission to order that test. Every facility usually has a policy and that also dictates what's expected of nurses in certain situations and the required actions. That being said with my hands, my eyes, a penlight, stethoscope, vitals machines, blood sugar machine, bladder scanner etc. I can assess quite a bit on the patient before I page the doctor for further orders.
@whirled_up_girl Actually, let's be real. You're told to. As example someone who is an ER patient undergoing non severe cardiac issues - nurses are told to double check vitals by the doctor, you DO NOT do it on your own. Not only am I a medical specialist headhunted across the US but I've sat in ER rooms with friends having cardiac issues and WITNESSED it myself.
In fact nurses are told to check a patient's vitals at such and such interval by the doctor. The ONLY time that you'd do it on your own is when the patient is showing unusual symptoms and/or symptoms are worsening.
Furthermore you are WRONG - a nurse can not give a patient food or even drink depending on the situation without a doctor's permission. It is FAR more than lab testing, etc.
Essentially a nurse can't do a damn thing without a doctor saying sure...
Yeah every action nurses takes is almost always dictated by policy, guidelines or typical standards of care in addition to what doctors do. Technically yes, either what were are done is told to us, or permission is granted by someone else. However, doctors can't see patients until they are granted privileges by the facility either. Also much of what they do is dictated also by policy, and current guidelines in addition to the their medical knowledge. I also never said a nurse can give food or water without a doctors permission anywhere in my comment so I don't know where you came up with that conclusions. What I said we can assess patient's status without doctors permission and there is to the assumption that we can't do anything without a doctors order is simply false, we are not just hand maiden's we have to use our nursing judgement to act when the situations calls for it. None of this means nurses deserve more money or anything like that but I'm not going to pretend like our role is completely insignificant to patient outcomes and devoid of any professional autonomy, either.
@whirled_up_girl "What I said we can assess patient's status without doctors permission" As Wicken said you ONLY do that when the patient is showing odd or worsening symptoms. Or if you are working in a hospital as tirage. Those are the ONLY exceptions a nurse has.
Nurses should! People confuse doctors with Serguons!
Huge difference!
Doctors are usually asshat that work a little do rounds and golf!
Mean while we do everything for the patient and take care of them! While dealing with the families for hours!
12 hours a day dealing with patients poop dressings ivs! Mental issues!
Doctors get paid to type in what the people say and the computer comes up with the answer!
No one could imagine what it would be like with no nurses! Forget no doctors...
Imagine a empty hospital... No doctor would go near a patients poop! Let alone watch them all day.
Without nurses there would be no hospital just an empty building!
School is easy life is hard!
The doctors spend longer time and money in schooling and have a deeper knowledge of medicine. So obviously they should be paid more. But in the hospital, nurses spend much more time with the patients and become more familiar with each patient. Often the nurse catches mistakes a doctor makes (such as prescribing a wrong drug due to conditions the patient has that the doctor is not familiar with).
The doctors who work with patients inside a hospital generally have completed residency in a number of areas they will likely come across in a hospital and so are more knowledgeable in more areas they will come across than other doctors. They are the one doctor (on a shift) that is responsible for many more patients than a nurse (who is part of a team for a smaller number of patients). They earn their higher pay. So do surgeons and specialists.
Doctors definitely should be paid more than nurses.
I think we should tie healthcare salaries to patient load. The more patients you have, your salary increases exponentially and this applies to OT as well.
The minimum will have a floor, so nurses can't only be assigned one patient and get too little pay to survive on. Obviously there will also be a max.
Doctors do have more education and specialisation than nurses, so more base pay is fair. If a nurse wants more pay, they can get licenses, certs, or return to school - just like anyone else would have to do.
As it is nurses get paid pretty well if you are a RN. CNA's (certified nursing assistants) do all the dirty work these days though. Plus most nurses - before covid anyway - worked 3 days a week and had 4 days off. You will rarely find a doctor that works less hours than a nurse.
Nursing Career
2019 Mean Salary
Nursing Assistant (CNA)
$30,720
Licensed Practical and Licensed Vocational Nurse (LPN/LVN)
$48,500
Registered Nurse (RN)
$77,460
Nurse Practitioners (NP)
$111,840
Nurse Midwife (CNM)
$108,810
Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA)
$181,040
Nursing Instructors and Teachers, Postsecondary
$83,160
I believe payment should be built not only on effort and merit, but also no professional rarity and necessity. A doctor does more intellectual processing work in determining the best treatment and if they are paid less then a nurse, they might change professions and create a gaping shortage of important employees in that pivotal position in the hospital. I understand that doctors and nurses both work hard and neither one is lazy, but you have to pay doctors more or they won't choose to be doctors.
The real question should be do, you want to pay more at the doctor office then you are already paying, or do want your insurance premium to go up? If the answer is no to any of these questions... then no, you don't really want nurses to get paid more.
You got to remember that have the nurses you see at the hospitals or doctor offices, are not real certified nurses. They Medical Assistants, they have technical training... no formal 4-year education. These are the ones that get stuck doing most of the real work.
When I speak to nurses, and I've several friends who are or have been, their complaints have rarely been about pay. They always cite things like long hours, work overload due to a lack of nurses, expose to illness and disease, workplace environment, professional misconduct, sudden changes to scheduling, unfamiliarity with new technologies, and so on.
What they're telling me is they're overworked more often than not and stressed, but I don't hear underpaid very much. Travelling nurses in particular make a lot of money and get to choose their assignments. I don't believe they should get paid on the same level as a doctor, but unlike one the idiot commentors here, I know for a fact that nurses can & do save lives. It doesn't always happen in a hospital, but I've witnessed it in the street.
Nope. I think every person should negotiate their own employment contract. Demand for employees within a particular field due to either labor shortages or increase need creates opportunity for negotiating higher pay. An excess of workers seeking the same position or a reduced demand creates more competition for employment driving down wages. There are more than five times the registered nurses as there are physicians. Thus physicians are harder to acquire. Doctors have higher level's of education and training, thus their skills are more in demand. Therefor it's pretty logical that doctors who are more in demand due to higher levels of skill and whom are more rare in supply will yield a higher salary for their services.
Of course not. You sound like those female soccer or WNBA players whining their salaries should match NBA stars salaries.
Millions of people pay money to watch the NBA, products endorse them, television networks pay huge amounts to have rights to air the games for the men. Lots of money generated.
Hardly anyone watches the women. Little money is generated.
Doctors go to school much longer, they have to do residencies, they are the surgeons, they make the diagnosis and make the calls, decisions.
Nurses are hugely vital. At the end of the day, the doctors are deciding how to treat and if they need to operate, the doctors and surgeons do that, not the nurses.
My niece is a nurse, and has delivered several hundred babies. I asked her what she thought, and she responded "that's crazy! No!" Most of her deliveries are very routine, but once in a while, there are complications, and she's largely helpless to fix them - but the doctors have an extremely high success rate of saving lives, both of mothers and of children. She sees it all the time, and has tremendous respect for the doctors.
When I was in hospital last time, it was the nurses who woke me up in the middle of the night, forced me for having breakfast at an ungodly time, tried to wash me when I could do it myself, told me to pee when it pleased THEM, invaded my privacy, and did NOTHING to stop the neighbouring bed-visitors to reduce their noisy conversations.
I felt nothing but molested.
Whereas the ''doctors'' turned up late, saved my life and left me at rest otherwise.
Where is a high payment justified?
Older nurses are different they have a different bedside manner they look at things a lot different and they almost act as if they are a doctor in a roundabout way so I can't say all nurses but I can tell you this it's a good field to be in because you can go anywhere any place and you can get a job in a heartbeat and nurses are making probably about a good anywhere from 80,000 to $150,000 a year right now
doctors pay more to the universities and they wouldn't bother studying if they got paid less. technicaly noone would want to be doctors so they would have to train nurses to give medication and diagnosis so they wouldn't be anymore nurses. and insurance companies would not insure hospitals if all nurses where doctors as this would mean more chances of making mistakes. thats kind of my personal guess.
Yes, for work they do. Nevertheless you have invest a lot of money and years with bad trainee income to get MD diploma with some meaningful specialization, while a nurse needs just 3,5-4 years medical school. That's why in most countries there is a deficit of specialized doctors and a massive surplus of nurses and general medicine doctors after just 3 semesters.
Nursing is a very difficult job but at worst it's a four-year degree. Becoming a doctor of any kind is more like a 12-year degree. Additionally, the decisions made by doctors are a lot more difficult than most decisions made by nurses. I appreciate nurses a great deal for what they do, but I think it's important to evaluate the job duties appropriately as well as evaluating the amount of school it takes appropriately.
I don't know how much they're being paid, but I'm well aware of what nurses and doctors do. Doctors do FAR more, far more than most people realize. I've been associated with the medical profession since birth and have volunteered in it for over a decade and have been employed in it for half a year. I probably know more of what nurses and doctors do than anyone but nurses and doctors themselves, and any nurse should know that doctors do far more than they do.
Well no, I think healthcare workers should be paid for the amount of education they've received and the amount of experience they have. At least that seems fair to me.. Where I live nurses get paid enough to make a living, but it's like nowhere near the amount doctors make, which I think should be fixed, especially looking at the shortage of nurses that's going on at the moment.🤔
If nurses were paid more since most people that graduate college could qualify to be a nurse, many more people would become nurses. Then with far more nurses than position, competion would force their salaries down to where they were.
I think you could make a case for that Bella. It seems to me that it would be more likely that a hospital could still function if there were no doctors than if there were no nurses. Nurses are more involved with one-on-one patient care than doctors.
Nope. If a nurse wants to get paid as much as a doctor, she/he can do all the years of additional schooling and testing and residency and become more valueable. There are very good reasons why doctors get paid more. They are more knowledgable, more capable and more valuable. That's how it works.
There are a lot of routine things doctors do that can also be done by nurses. But doctors receive much more training than nurses -- medical school then residency.
I’m going to Navy Nursing School and I will be paid according to what rank I hold, I start as a Lieutenant, some doctors start as Lieutenant Commander and maybe I will be promoted to the same rank as a doctor?
No they should be paid more than they are being paid but not more than doctors. Doctor is a more difficult education they should be paid more.
As several other people have said, not more, but more than the current salary. I respect doctors and nurses greatly, but doctors should still receive the higher pay.
Not taking away from what nurses do…. but they don’t go through the same rigorous schooling, don’t hold the liability for a patient being injured, and our healthcare costs would go through the roof.
The pay is decent…scheduling is another story. 12 hour shift is not healthy.
I want my nurse to be well rested not coming to see me like they are the sick patient.
they also need to have less patients to care for.
They certainly should not be paid as much as doctors , but the pay could be a little better , these kind of roles can never be about making money , much of it is public purse , doctors have to do vastly more lifetime study.
No but they should be paid more than they are. They work really hard and put up with a lot of crap.
No, since it is easier to become a nurse than a doctor
the training is different equal would not be equal.
Then Nursing Assistance got to be watched. This one took my blood sugar, and it was over 200, and I told I her I need some insulin. So I ended up telling my nurse and she took care of it SMH
Both doctors and nurses should be paid way more than they are, but nurses shouldn't be paid more than doctors. A nurse wouldn't be able to do a doctor's job.
Some do. It depends on their experience and field.
Nurses have less education than doctors. RN’s and LVN’s already make INCREDIBLY good money. Most hospitals pay a 6 figure salary to start
I think they should be making more than they are and not as much as doctors based on education and liability
Why would anyone study and work hard to become a doctor if they just made the same as a nurse? You'd have crippled hospitals as Nurses can't perform certain procedures or diagnose patients.
They can get raise of salary but not more then a doctor
They maybe should get paid higher, but not as much as doctors. Doctors go to uni for yearsss
As a nurse nope we shouldn't. But definitely could do with more staff better working conditions. Raise wouldn't turn it down. Lol
You're a sexy male nurse.
Thanks
It feels like they take on more risks and demands with their jobs than doctors do so I think they should be paid more.
Do/Work more, get paid more. Simple as that.
Bruh a nurse doesn't need to go through 6-8 years of college education and they don't have highly specialized skills. If they started getting paid the same all doctors would just quit. Would you trust a nurse to do open heart surgery on you? Hell no.
Just like everyone else should be paid, they should be paid whatever the one who is hiring them thinks they are worth based on the other options they have.
Hospitals don’t give a shit about their patients. So…. no.
I always receive great care at my hospital, at which I've unfortunately had several occasions to explore at length. I'm sorry yours isn't as good.
I'm not sure, but nurses should be paid a lot. They have to put up with so much shit.
no that’s like saying dental hygienist should get paid more than the dentist that owns the practice.
Absolutely not. Doctors have to train for a minimum 10 years. Nursing is not such a highly skilled role
No. This is generally the way it works in the occupational world. The more monet you make typically the less actual work you do.😆
Nurses don't have anywhere near the education and training of Doctors.
Not at all, their work is pretty basic and easy
Dr's sre fucking useless snd a RN does more the. There dumb asses do. So maybe yes
Definitely not, why would anyone bother to become a doctor at that point?
Nurses have that nursing position to do all that is labor for doctors and surgeons. So NO , they shouldn't. A nurses position requires or entails the doctors dirty work same as a janitor.
No because the schooling and work that goes into being a doctor is a lot more harder than it is to be a nurse.
i voted the second option
Especially in the UK.
The nurses do more of the work
Should be paid same
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