Gender Roles: Making the First Move

[Anonymous]

This is my first real myTake, so it might not be that great, but I hope you've got something out of it.

I feel like this article below is very true and relatable for girls. I mean, what ever happened to a man professing his love to someoen and not caring about what others think. Theve just let their egos get in the way. They instead go for some easy girl who wears less and throws themselves at them in a sexualized way, than the girl that dresses more modest and cares about the guy for their feelings and who they are as a person.

When it comes to making the first initial move, sometimes I wish that a guy will have the balls to let me know. But when a girl makes an initial move, it's considered taboo, but yet at the same time it feels like im almost forced to do so due to the fact that women are starting to break even more out of traditional roles in a relationship. It feels like some guys notice this and think it's okay to not do anything to progress the relationship forward.

What motivated me to write this myTake was becasue I asked a guy I liked to hang out. It was completely out of my comfort zone and I never done anything like it before. His reaction was neither positive or negative which I thought was strange. I feel like he got so freaked out AN ACTUAL GIRL was asking so he decided to make it cryptic or something.

Although I'm totally for girls asking guys out, sometimes I wish a guy could make the initial response instead of me having to do so much work.

https://elitedaily.com/dating/why-men-dont-have-balls-anymore/

Note: I'm just spouting ideas here because I want to know what other people think about this. Not because I'm trying to say something's more right than the other.

[coconutelixir]

So the traditional gender roles were/are male asks, female decides. I don't see why it's so hard for some men to fathom there is some degree of taboo associated with women asking out since that's not the traditional role. It's not taboo as in forbidden, but maybe a better term is there's a stigma attached to it. That if a girl doesn't have guys asking her out, there is something wrong with her. A parallel of a guy not having luck asking out women must have something wrong with him. It is what it is/it was what it was.

That being said, nowadays, it's not that big of a deal anymore... and it's more complicated than he asks, she chooses. There's the whole concept of flirting and making it known you are interested. There's also the whole concept of beauty, upkeep, and attraction. Rejection isn't just a response to a question... it's also not giving attention to the person interested in you but you're not interested in him/her. Being unnoticed is a form of rejection just as flirting and putting effort in appearance is a form of initiation. I think nowadays we're headed towards a more joint effort in initiating going on a date which is good.

[Maverickj]

"Although I'm totally for girls asking guys out, sometimes I wish a guy could make the initial response instead of me having to do so much work."

Guys are already forced to do this all the time. Asking a woman to put some work in every now and then isn't too much to ask, right?

Anyway nice take, more women should make the first move.

[pnl86]

Well, if Lauren from Elite Daily said so, then you know it must be true.

(rolls eyes)

This is just another variant of "be a man" or "real men do X," which guys are so tired of hearing as a default manipulation tactic by women, that guys end up becoming immune to it. It's like ambient noise. "Have some balls." Oh yeah, baby. Attack my masculinity and sexual identity unless I conform to your desired behavior.

"LIMITED TIME ONLY! BUY NOW WHILE SUPPLIES LAST! CALL NOW! BUT DON'T WAIT, THIS OFFER WON'T LAST!" (insert additional classic sales tactics).

We don't need the sales tactics or the emotional manipulation, and clearly, all of that is falling on deft ears. "Nature's" penalty for failing to take some action (or taking some action) are the consequences that come from that action. When men don't approach girls, their "penalty" is that a day, week, month, or year has gone by where they have not found a reasonably acceptable female partner. Yet, what men have to offer (i. e., their "value" as a male partner) keeps going up as they get older (to a point). So, if they don't find a girl when they're 20, that's okay. Worse case, they'll maybe find someone at 30. If not at 30, that's okay, maybe at 40. If not at 40, then they'll enjoy their remaining years as that 50 year-old guy banging 20-30 year-old bimbos from bars (there are worse things in life).

That's not the case for girls. After 25, it's all fucking downhill. The newer models start rolling off the shelves, and the "men women prefer" in turn "prefer the young and more attractive girls." So, a woman's negotiating power dwindles as a function of time and age ("biological clock" aside). So, if there's anyone between men and women who has the "higher" penalty from nature for "not approaching/initiating" the opposite sex, it's "women," not "men."

So, what this argument amounts to is nothing more than women trying to shift the burdens of their own problems onto men. If you're getting older and less preferable and desirable to the kind of men you want, and if your risk of ending up with a lower-value partner is growing with each passing day, that's not my problem. Don't look to "ME" to do something about "YOUR" problem. You do something about it (other than just b*tching and complaining - essentially).

If that means making the first move, then so be it. Ain't nothing shameful or embarrassing about admitting what kind of hand you were dealt in life.

[myTake Owner]

I'm 15 lol

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Holy shit, are you serious?

Not that I want to shit all over your first myTake, but I'm going to shit all over your first myTake. Sorry.

Take a poll, do you know who thinks girls look desperate or weird on approach? Girls!

Why can't women "profess their love to someone and not care about what others think?"

Girls seem to always "let their egos get in the way."
This fear of looking desperate, that's your ego getting the way!

Isn't that slut shaming or something? She seems nice to me. "Hey, this attractive girl expressed interest, I feel valued and wanted, fantastic. [The "modest" girl] must not be interested in me, oh well." You're sitting around waiting for guys to show they "have the balls" to come to you and yet you expect them to see how much you value them as a person? Like it's written on your face or something? Get real.

"When a girl makes an initial move, it's considered taboo"
Pfff, nope. This brings us back to take a poll, which brings us back to it's girls that think this, which brings us back to stop letting your ego get in the way.

"it feels like im almost forced to do so"
Welcome to the club, yay equality.

"It feels like some guys notice this and think it's okay to not do anything to progress the relationship forward." You mean like waiting for guys to approach? Hmm...

"His reaction was neither positive or negative which I thought was strange. I feel like he got so freaked out AN ACTUAL GIRL was asking" Because no guy has ever had to endure a lukewarm reaction or a rejection before... obviously it must be taboo. #Sarcasm

You know what, it could actually be a bit of a shock moment where a guy doesn't know what to do, I can understand that - and it would be because girls do it so little! Suddenly this thing happens which you could see yourself going your whole life without experiencing and you froze? Wow, who da thunk?

"I wish a guy[girl] could make the initial response instead of me having to do so much work," said every guy ever. So because the onus isn't completely on the guy and there's the *possibility* that you might have to do "work" too, that is just too much effort? Perish the thought, quick, someone fetch my fainting couch! God forbid you might have to express interest in anywhere near equal proportion to a guy. Your comfort should always take precedence... ( -_-)

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Take a look at your own points and notice how you ask things of people, but seem to be almost slighted by the very notion that you might have to do the same to a degree even remotely approaching equal measure.

Me? Work? What a ghastly notion! Away with you, filthy knave!

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Take a look at your point and then look at the definition of entitlement.

[nymous1234]

lol this take makes me laugh!! and your comment is so on point. to be honest she lost me at this sentence... They instead go for some easy girl who wears less and throws themselves at them in a sexualized way, than the girl that dresses more modest and cares about the guy for their feelings and who they are as a person.
to prove her point she is trying to shame girls who know what they want and go for it. I think both men and women should make attempts to initiate.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@nymous1234
Thanks, we aim to please. Y'know, normally I'm against "the guy pays" on a date type thing. It makes the most sense to me to split it. But if a girl doesn't accept the whole "it's taboo" thing and just approaches me and asks me out, I think I would totally pay for that date. That girl gets massive respect from me for being chill and straightforward. It's like "fuck traditional courting rituals, let's just skip to the part where we're friends," and I would go "darn tootin', it's on me." Then rainbows will shoot out of my ass because that'll be the day. Lol.

[nymous1234]

lol it is so strange to me that asking out a guy is so rare. i mean i have never formally asked a guy out to like dinner except like maybe once. but i have asked them out to more informal situations.

[myTake Owner]

@nymous1234 I was trying to say the opposite. I'm saying that girls that dresses more modest are the ones that when they ask a guy out, they most of the time get rejected. And if it's the other way around, like a girl who's easy or fast, usually is the one who gets the guys for exploiting their body

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@nymous1234
I want more lasses like you around. :)

@myTake Owner
That's a lot of things you're putting forth there and they seem rather subjective. If "modest" girls get rejected more, prove it - and then prove what's wrong with that. Then prove the other girls are being "exploited." I think you're presuming moral authority here and unilaterally deciding what's going on in everyone's minds and that it's bad.

[Anonymous]

This topic gets discussed a LOT on this site.
Of course men are always in favor of it... makes their job easier. And why do I say their job? Because yes, even though we're humans, in nature it's practically decided that the male is the one courting and making the moves and the females are able to choose. A female going after a male is probably just in heat...

Obviously we are very civilized now and supposedly things don't really have to work that way for several reasons I won't bother to mention now, but one thing I think it's true: nowadays both male and female have options. We can ask someone out, and we can opt not to. We risk and live with the consequences.

You can ask a guy out. Actually I think most of us already do ask guys we like out, but apparently guys want us to pick up random fellows on the street as some of them do. Maybe they don't mind looking desperate, but again, we're not built the same.
Whatever, you don't have to do anything you don't want to, but have to accept other people are entitled to their own opinion.

[the_rake]

take note ladies:

sometimes when approaching the opposite gender, be it a guy or a girl, that person will not be compatible for whatever reason (e. g. lack of attraction, moral or religious reasons regarding sex / marriage, different personality, they just happen to be quite shy, etc., etc.). if and when this person rejects you, this does NOT mean that the entire gender does not want you to approach. in fact you should approach MORE to find somebody that IS compatible, because you are more likely to have success

and by 'MORE' this figure could be in the hundreds, but realistically, if you are a woman of modest attraction or above, you WILL be successful and you certainly do NOT need to be nervous or freak out about it, because the vast majority of men will respect and even ACCEPT an advance from the opposite gender.

so please, none of this, "one guy freaked out when I made a move... it must be that all men do not like it when women do this". I mean, you guys don't see this girl having a lot of problems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBtF3I7fDfU

[AleDeEurope]

It's always guy's fault, women have nothing to do with the fact that men are approaching less. Of course it has nothing to do with women. It has nothing to do with being called a creep or she making a disgusted face when you approach and say hi. Of course it has nothing to do with that. It's all about porn and men's fragile ego.

Ironic how the author of the article mentioned men feel entitled... the author of an article that's basically saying women are entitled to men's attention and men doing all the work for them.

If you like a guy, get the fuck up, walk to him, and ask him out. Just because you got rejected doesn't mean the guy thinks it's not ok for a woman to approach, he just simply don't like you. Get over it, not everyone is gonna like you.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

dayyyum... #savage

[AleDeEurope]

@OrdinaryGentleman Sorry but I get pissed with hypocrisy. I wasn't directing this specifically to the asker, I hope she doesn't take it that way, I was directing this to all those women that believe it's a man's job to approach and do all the work. They say they're old fashioned, but just for what they want.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

No I totally get it, you just cross examined the fuck out of it. Your comment is what made this take worth reading:P

[AleDeEurope]

@OrdinaryGentleman xD thanks man ;)

[OrdinaryGentleman]

There are rules to GAG my_takes
1. Please spell to the best of your ability
2. Don't put down the other gender (gag has had fem and male movements right now we are in the wake of all that Jazz saying its the other genders fault is a quick way to lose friends)
3. If you write something controversial, keep it logical otherwise you have no credibility.
4. If you are in favor of feminism, MGTOW or anything like that. Approach with egalitarian view.

Hopefully this will help you in your next my_take and not get shot down on every comment.

[myTake Owner]

Thanks this helps

[Dipsy]

"1. Please spell to the best of your ability"
> It's myTake and not my_take :P ;P :P xD

lol sorry had to point that out, but yeah i agree

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@Dipsy
1. I have always done it that way, not because its right just because that how I always have done it on this site.
2. Your jokes suck.

[Dipsy]

Hey dude, I didn't mean to offend you?

It wasn't a joke at all, I made those smileys/emojies so you could understand I wasn't being serious/wanting to offend you, but it seemed you didn't took it that way lol. Sigh.

[myTake Owner]

@Dipsy can u guys1 stop fighting lol, it's getting kinda irritating

[Anonymous]

You're very young, that's why I feel bad for you after reading all the harsh criticism you got from the guys here. But I can't say they are wrong. Sorry. The article you linked to is honestly one of the biggest piles of bullshit I ever read, and I have read many infuriatingly stupid feminist rants. I actually did a little google research to make sure it's not meant to be satire or trolling.
I don't think you need any more bashing. And I hope I don't sound too patronizing. In fact, I respect you for caring about such things at your age. I'd just like you to take a little more time to think objectively, rather than coming to overly emotional conclusions that make absolutely no sense. Keep your head up.
Now before I forget to add my opinion: If you like a guy, approach him! We love that! If you don't believe me, put up a poll here. Only jealous girls will tell you it's "weird" or "desperate".

[myTake Owner]

Thanks, I was upset at the time and I was basically ranting bc I was upset about personal stuff going on.

[Opinion Owner]

No need to thank me. We all let our emotions get the better of us sometimes. And yes, there are people out there who appreciate no amount of effort you put into them, but that's just how it is. Forget about such people, you don't need them in your life.

[Thor696]

I love that article and you're spot on!

The only guys who have a problem with it are "momma boys" that are too timid to take the possibility of rejection - special little snowflakes.

I would advise women to stick with he guys who approach them - they have balls and are clearly confident. Those are the guys you're looking for - you don't want to have anything to do with a guy who is fearful of approach. If he's too scared to ask you out - he's too scared to deal with the exterior antagonists of married life.

[Kirah]

I resent that.

Should we say the same about women who are too scared to approach? Of course not. Leave your sexism at home please.

[chuppachup]

"I mean, what ever happened to a man professing his love to someoen and not caring about what others think." - Why don't women do that too? Because you get called "masculine" and "desperate"? Boo hoo. Stop caring what they think.

"sometimes I wish a guy could make the initial response instead of me having to do so much work." - Lol. Maybe it's not that men don't have balls it's just that they don't want to have to do so much of the work either, like they've done for centuries.

I read that article and it's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever read. Just swap "women" with "men".

"Men stand by waiting for women to come to them. When they see something they want, rather than doing everything in their power to attain it, they wait by, hoping it will fall into their laps" - Like.. do you not see the hypocrisy in that sentence?

Jesus.

[myTake Owner]

Menimist lol, you think you have it so hard

[chuppachup]

Not a "Menimist". It's not even a real thing that's just to mock feminism.
And I didn't say I have it harder than you would either.

Keep your assumptions to yourself.

[chuppachup]

In fact, I didn't even say if I was a feminist or not lol.

God, you are actually retarded. Something tells me you are one of the tumblr dickheads.

[myTake Owner]

The last time I used tumblr was like in September lol

[myTake Owner]

Again, I'm not trying to prove one opinion is more right than the other, I want to know what other people think

[chuppachup]

I told you what I think and yet you criticised my opinion as if yours was more right than mine and you made assumptions. Doesn't seem like "just trying to see what other people think".

[godfatherfan]

I would LOVE for a woman to chase me the way I am expected to chase a woman. For about 3 months last year I decided I would not send any messages to any women online. I would just answer women that emailed me. That got me 1 date and the woman was just looking for free dinners.
It is frustrating that women want to be considered equals, they can do anything a man can do, yet won't make the first move. I don't know any men that would find that to be a negative. I find it to be a negative when she won't make the first moves. ask me out, kiss me first, whatever. just do it...

[Bandit74]

I found the comments to be more interesting than the article.

One in particular...

(Isn't this a bit like a restaurant exclaiming, "Customers aren't coming into the store. There's something wrong with our customers! First, let's insult the customer to get their attention, then let's take the time telling them how wrong they are that they're not buying our product.," instead of considering, "Maybe there's something wrong with our product...") 😜

[Anonymous]

What a complete load of shit.

Let's take just one of the complaints: "I mean, what ever happened to a man professing his love to someoen and not caring about what others think."

So, you want men to be persistent. Here's why we're not:
"He's so creepy"
"RAPIST"
"Stalker"
"Entitled"
"Fucking loser"
etc.

Then someone takes a picture of us and tries shaming us on social media, youtube, viral videos, etc until we lose our fucking jobs and become unemployed and unemployable.

Get a clue, you entitled, naive brat.

Typical feminist dribble. Blame men for everything, and never look at how their own behavior affects themselves. No self-awareness whatsoever.

[myTake Owner]

Well I'm sorry that you've been called these things. Those girls obviously weren't worth your time and energy. If a girl liked you, she wouldn't mind that your persistent. I mean it's like that for me at least.

[genuinlysensitive]

I don't know where this came from, but the whole girl making the first move thing isn't taboo. Most guys DONT care, and some actually prefer it, myself included. Feel free to poll the guys on this site and in rl if you dont beleive me.

[Anonymous]

I never hear guys say girls are masculine or insecure if the girl makes the first move. I only hear this crap about girls being desperate for making a first move by other girls. They just say that because they don't want to see other girls making first moves because then they feel like they lose their advantage in the dating world so they put insecurities into other women to keep their power they hold by not having to approach safe.

[bluenose1872]

Yeah and the other girls say it out of spite and jealousy coz they're too aloof to talk to a guy themselves

[Blueeyes81]

Funny she mentioned feminism when she stated it's ok to ask a guy out. But failed to mention feminism as a possible cause. Woman wanted change, but they wanted men to stay the same. As feminism evolved and more battles where won, men also changed. They began to evolve, just as women evolved. It's silly to think that a man should adhere to old values but women shouldn't. On a side note, women who get turned down when approaching always fall back on, it scared him off, it was desperate, etc. When their own egos can't handle rejection, so they fall back onto outdated thinking of men to protect their own fragile ego.

[giggleswilmington]

I don't think that most guys just wait for the girl approach but I do agree there are a lot men who need to grow a pair and ask her out.

Also girls on the same note if you want a guy to approach you look at him and smile or express some kind of interest. I never approach any girl unless I get some kind of indication and most guys don't either.

[Vanadium]

Here's why I don't try asking girls out anymore: They always say no. Okay, not always, just 99.9% of the time. But even if I get a date, which happened exactly three times in the past 10 years, it never leads to a second date. Maybe I'm too ugly, maybe I get too nervous around women, but it's simply not worth the effort for a guy like me.

[TheGuyFromMiddleEast]

Hahah, you'll get there. Once you women understand that it's actually a hard thing to make the first move, relationship will be more appreciated. You simply take it for granted from guys, but freak out when you are asked to do it.
Plus, what's wrong with being weird or desperate?

[Azara]

What did the guy say when you asked him out?

do you think he was surprised sort had a problem with it?

you said you only asked a guy out once,.. so what do you mean you wish he could make an initial move instead of you having to do so much work?

[flirtygirl247]

I think that it is almost necessary for girls to make the first move sometimes. I like more shy and reserved guys and I would never get anywhere with them, if I hadn't gone up to them first. Guys are to prideful to make the first move anymore. The fear of rejection is what makes a man a man.