Harrassment isn't Flirting

[WowwGirl]

Harrassment isn't Flirting

Harassment

Harrassment doesn’t happen at random! It doesn’t happen because of unfortunate timing and coincidence. Harassment has intent behind it and not “ha ha, I’m going to make this person uncomfortable” but the belief that one person is entitled to the time, attention or body of another. In other words malicious intent towards the person

While people on here may argue that they don’t or didn't realize what they’re doing is wrong… that doesn’t make it better. The person who has been harrassed is now hurt, embarrassed, and possibly mentally scarred. All because you "thought' you were flirting or being cute. Well you might want to start thinking more in general becaues you weren't flirting or being cute you were bothering her/him and beyond.

Stop Stepping On My Foot Please

Not understanding boundaries or social norms isn’t an excuse for shitty behavior towards people. You may not mean to step on someone’s foot, but arguing about how you didn’t mean to doesn’t undo the fact that you’re stepping on it. You have offended the person period. Flirting is very different than harrassment, and I thought before GAG it was very easy to tell the difference between the two..

Flirting

It’s about two people building desire together, a playful exchange that everyone has agreed to. Flirting is a welcome game being played, by both people. Not imposed upon another person. Who doesn't feel the same. Both are into the others advances.

When your version of flirting gets “mistaken” by someone for sexual harassment, then you need to consider that maybe you suck at flirting. And might need to seek help in understanding the difference.

Of course, one of the eternal comebacks is “it’s only harassment if you’re ugly”, which misses a fundamental part of flirting: both parties want that attention.

Ignorance Isn't a Excuse

When you insist that the only difference between harassment and flirting are your looks or her looks, you’re ignoring the fact that it takes two people to flirt. Continuing to press your case is where your attention is unwanted isn’t flirting again it's harrassing someone.

When somebody is attracted to another person, they’re going to welcome attention from them. They want to flirt and tease and laugh with them. They’re going to not just encourage the behavior but be an active and eager participant.

But when that attention is unwelcome, then it’s not flirting any more. Once again: you’re imposing your will over somebody else and telling them that you are entitled to override their desire by being cruel or disruptive to the person.

Flirting is wanted wanted by girls. Reguardless of what a " I know women like aggressive guys." Well guess what your wrong. We like to be treated respectfully believe it or not, in a kind cool way that we don't feel pressured to have to do anything.

Not by catcalls or hanging all over me giving unwanted touch or affection. Next time try to flirt not harrass. Just saying may help you.

Thanks for reading guys and girls

And remember,,,,,,

#wowgirlRocks #girlsaskguys

#Wowgirlrocks

[Jjpayne]

This was really well thought through!! I completely agree with it!! I think the tricky part is "suck"ing "at flirting" when is the attention wanted? I think you have a great argument against cat calling though. She has to want that attention. I think it's much simpler in a group of friends rather by strangers on public. If you have 2 guys and 3 girl friends in a dressing room and you could out looking amazingly attractive, it's a much better environment to playfully praise her with a whistle among friends but with strangers it's just strange and weird. I really think this is a well thought out argument against cat calling! Nice work!

[WowwGirl]

I understand that some people are just bad at flirting but there's a big difference and as a girl we can tell usually

[Jjpayne]

Thank you :)

[DaanZaan123]

Agreed Big time!!💯 Tip for newbies/socially awkward people: Stick to your niche! Don't go for the attractive people! Some people do have a biological advantage in the dating game! You guys know you're ugly! Don't try to flirt with attractive people or even average looking/confident people! Try your flirting skills on the really desperate/naïve/under-confident ones and once you feel that you have mastered your skills, DUMP THEIR SORRY ASS and move on to more confident/attractive targets. With time, you'd be able to flirt with anyone really good!! Flirting is a learned skill and you'll get better with practice

[WowwGirl]

Thank you

[DaanZaan123]

Welcome

[DaanZaan123]

So basically you gotta keep cheating on people until you get good enough for a relationship

[WowwGirl]

Excuse me what?

[Yaaten]

You're equating being socially awkward with being ugly. Did it ever occur to you that attractive people can be socially awkward as well? "Dump their sorry ass"? "Targets"? Are you a sociopath? Do you see people as things to be manipulated? If so, you're a horrible excuse for a human being.

[OlderAndWiser]

I have the impression that you are writing about a bad experience that you had with someone. Was it on this site?

[WowwGirl]

Why the impression?

[OlderAndWiser]

The topic seems to have aroused a great passion in you and, apparently, many other users agree with me.

[WowwGirl]

Okay

[WowwGirl]

@OlderAndWiser now I'm wondering why and how it looked passionate

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

Everything you wrote is perfectly on spot.

[WowwGirl]

Thanks my love

[WhistleForTheChoir]

I like that you acknowledged the counter-argument, "It's only harassment if you're ugly." I think you did a pretty good job of deconstructing that, and throwing out a hard truth for ugly people, which is genuinely not unwarranted. We spend too much time trying to soft-ball everything to people to the point that ugly people might not even realize they're ugly.

However, I would still put forward the counterargument that the interaction doesn't have to involve touching, compliments or even amorous intent. If you're an ugly man, you're frequently going to be accused of harassment for trying to speak to someone. And I avoid it whenever I can, because of messages I get like this: that women don't want to talk to me, but sooner or later in my life I'm going to have to talk to some women. I don't need to flirt or harass or anything even resembling those two things, but I work with women, I'm a customer of women, there are women in every single part of my life.

I've even had this accusation leveled (albeit behind my back) when I was trying to have PROFESSIONAL conversations, which has really fucked up at least two workplaces for me. I've gotten my ass kicked over this kind of shit too.

And if that's the case, then it's not my demeanor that the other person finds offensive. It's my existence that bothers them. I'm ugly, I get that, I'm not entitled to anything. I don't flirt, I don't compliment, I maintain eye contact or I don't look at women at all, I haven't even hoped for anything romantic to happen in YEARS. I'm also asexual, so that kind of undermines the common counterargument that it's "the vibes I'm giving off" and they "just know" I only want to get in their pants.

So essentially the solution to this problem for me becomes either I self-segregate from society or gender-segregation like they have in Saudi Arabia, and people will have to forgive me for not being super enthusiastic about either of those solutions. My solution has just been to be as aloof, gruff and monosyllabic as possible and to not look at women when I'm speaking, but that doesn't exactly put people at ease either. At least now they just think of me as an thoughtless, rude asshole instead of a willful, drooling creep.

You used the "step on my foot" metaphor, and I think that's appropriate. If I make someone uncomfortable I should apologize, same if I step on their foot. But if I step on their foot, it's very likely an accident because I'm clumsy and I take up space (or in the non-metaphorical sense here, I'm ugly and I take up space). It's not indicative of a behavioral problem that I have, and it's not something I have a realistic, healthy solution to.

[youknowbetter]

Sadly poetic with that “women don't want to talk to me, but sooner or later in my life I'm going to have to talk to some women.”

I wonder what’s tougher. Being an ugly guy all your life and being used to it vs being a guy who was once very handsome but having Father Time rip that away b

It’s amazing what I could get away with how I talked to women when I was 21 to 29. I remember once waking up to a girl at a bar when I was 28. I looked her in the eyes and introduced myself and she introduced herself. Next step I asked if she like to kiss. Her response “sure” and we lip licked for a good 20 seconds.

Now she was way turned on by my boldness. But if was 10 years older or very overweight or just unattractive regardless of my age then this would definitely be called “harassment” despite the fact I made no rude remarks and plainly asked for consent.

by the way people in general are much more likely to tell men to their faces they are “ugly” than to women. It’s supposed to be a death knell insult to a woman but something a guy can just “take” given we are expendable. So my point being is you may not be as ugly as you think. If you were you would of heard it quite often.

[sadiefluff]

Reading your response really broke my heart. As a woman can I just say that I’m sorry you’ve been treated that way? I understand this girls article here... but I also agree with what you’re saying that there are probably some women who assume the worst when it’s not your intention. And honestly that’s not kind or fair either. :( And it’s weird, because “flirting” is SO DIFFERENT depending on people’s personalities etc. What some people just consider being friendly and kind, others see as flirting. And that’s where it becomes such a freaking MESS. Honestly I don’t think ANYONE can claim that a man is “harassing her” unless it is actual touching, sexual comments and remarks, or repeatedly asking her out when she’s already declined. Beyond that, I think joking, laughing, chatting SHOULD be FINE. And I’m sorry if you’ve been treated bad for just being a nice guy.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@youknowbetter I was less than hideous at one point. When I was in middle school and high school I was able to get dates and even two short relationships. Even dated a bit in my younger 20's. I'm glad I had the experience of kind of dating, even if my dates were never super thrilled or excited. I would've never DREAMED of just walking up to a girl and asking for a kiss though. With my experiences, that in and of itself would've constituted harassment.

I'm not sure if you're saying that Father Time ripped it away from you or not, but if that did happen, I'm sorry about that. It happens to all of us I guess, some sooner than others haha, but at least it sounds like you had some good experiences.

But I have had women tell me, not that I'm "ugly" but some other very unflattering comments, generally about height. Usually they're either drunk or they mean well, but just come off as pretty condescending. Sometimes they don't have such a good excuse. One time it was my mom: "No one will ever love you if you don't get taller."

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@sadiefluff It's okay, don't let it break your heart. People like me exist. It's a fact of life. It's my responsibility to deal with it the best way I can, but I would only ask that people, particularly women, spend more time acknowledging their intrinsic biases that all humans have. I think it becomes a thing where women are given this message their whole life that they are the "non-shallow" gender, and they think if they are shallow at all it makes them a bad person or a "bitch", even though everyone is shallow. It's natural.

But since they think being shallow makes them a bad person, and they don't want to be a bad person, then they have to look for other reasons why they dislike ugly men. So it's not that the man is ugly, but that HE is actually a bad person. That coupled with the general and not unjustified distrust of men makes the ugly man a pretty easy target. So since the problems with men's behavior are so visible in society right now, that becomes the natural rally point.

Since I'm asexual, I honestly think it's probably easier for me than other men like me. I don't know what it's like to have a sexual desire, but I've heard people describe it as a "need" and while I imagine that is at least a little hyperbolic, it makes sense biologically speaking. It still would've been nice to have someone I could rely on and talk to and travel with and help me to deal with being so sad when I'm lying awake at night for hours hating myself, but I'm not the first person who will go without, and I won't be the last.

I get bitter about the quality of men women DO accept, while accusing me of the behavior that those guys actually do on the regular even when they're hopping from relationship to relationship and thinking it's a merit of their character, rather than the fact that they're just good-looking narcissists who get everything they want, but that's a problem with me and I would argue those men as well (some would disagree), but NOT women.

[youknowbetter]

I met up with my ex in my home state (moved away for 4 years) to chat over some bullshit she did to me. It was her idea to meet up since I moved back home.

I did have facial hair when we met. I also was 4 years older. But she made comments that “I looked different” and she remembered me “being taller”. Like it’s okay for her to say that bullshit but if I said “hey it looks like you gained weight” I would be a sexist dbag. Just the double standard. I wasn’t completely surprised given that she was an idiot. But still would a guy say this to a girl after reconnecting after a few years.

The worse incident that ever happened was st paddies day a year ago. I met and made out with a girl at the party. We were drinking but we kissed outside in the afternoon in broad daylight. I got her number and setup a date with her a few days later.

I dressed up nice because I wanted to take her to a wine bar. She came by my place where I planned to get a Lyft to the place. She then gave me this uncomfortable look and started texting on her phone. She then asked “how old are you” (she was 25 and I was 34). I told her. She then said “I’m immature” and DITCHED ME for looking “too old”. Absolutely horrible. All I wanted was to get a drink and hang out. I didn’t say anything about sex.

Ironically I hooked up a 21 yr old later that night (girl I met on tinder). But that hurt. I have found myself on dates with women I don’t find attractive at all. But I would never do that to someone.

[youknowbetter]

It’s just that women have this attitude that it’s okay to shit/disrespect guys but if the same is applied to them it’s “#metoo worthy”.

[youknowbetter]

@sadiefluff you get it better. Thanks. The problem with the take owner is she put absolutely no effort into understand the male POV on this. Very selfish. Very feminist.

[WowwGirl]

@sadiefluff thank you and I see what you're saying

[loveslongnails]

My only comment is that if a guy of dating age doesn't already know the difference between harassment and flirting, he's not likely to ever understand it.

If a guy makes a pass at a woman, a nice respectful one so let's call it flirting, and her first response is "stop harassing me, I didn't ask for your attention", what does a man learn from it? Well, he should learn not to say another word to that particular woman and just drop it. But what is the woman really saying? Is it " I don't want YOUR attention, or I want to be approached by any man?" Does she want to do the approaching, or just didn't want that guy's attention?

I don't think it's harassment unless the initial approach was rude, lewd or really crude. If a guy flirtingly says "Hi, my name is John, and I see you come here for coffee most days, and I was wondering if you'd like to chat", that's not harassment. If the woman's reply is "Thank you, but no, I'm all set", that should be enough to end it. If he then says "what are you, some kind of stuck up bitch" -- now it's harassment. The guy who doesn't know to stop before he says that, will never know.

[WowwGirl]

Good point

[Bluemax]

Very serious question.

Is *one* flirtatious remark, aimed at testing the waters as purplepoppy phrased it, harassment? What about two?

Yes, women have flirted with me where it was unwelcomed. No, I do not call it harassment, nor would I *ever* call what they did harassment. They stopped when they realized it wasn't going anywhere. But they had to start somewhere.

I also consider it a HUGE difference between someone who intentionally steps on someone's feet, and someone who does it unintentionally. I am FAR more prepared to forgive, and even overlook them stepping on my feet as opposed to someone who intentionally stepped on my feet. If a loved one of mine were killed by a motorist who made a misjudgment, although it would still cause me emotional pain, I would be FAR more hurt and angry if a loved one were killed by a motorist who intentionally ran him/her over with the intent to murder them. I would be prepared, at some point, to actually forgive the motorist who made a mistake. I would NEVER forgive a murderer who drove over a loved one with the intent to kill them. Let's not pretend there is absolutely no difference between someone who intends to do wrong and someone who accidentally does wrong.

[Bluemax]

@youknowbetter I'll formulate my own views on Wowgirl, thank you. Nor do I agree with you.

[Bluemax]

Still waiting for a reply to the very serious question, Wowgirl. I'll ask again.

Is *one* flirtatious remark, aimed at testing the waters as purplepoppy phrased it, harassment? What about two?

[WowwGirl]

No not one

[WowwGirl]

Loud inappropriately and repeating themselves way after they see the girl isn't interested. Once not at all

[WowwGirl]

@Bluemax sorry for the hold up

[Bluemax]

Understood.
By that definition, virtually all of humanity, has been harassed. Including me. I've even had gay men flirt with me and I would never call that harassment, even though it was very unwelcome (to their credit, they stopped the moment they knew it was unwelcome).

If anyone is " hurt, embarrassed, and possibly mentally scarred," by a single flirtatious remark, that person, man or woman, is childish and needs to grow thicker skin.

[WowwGirl]

No offense but I wouldn't comment on what it's like being a man or what they go through.
That would be silly

[youknowbetter]

Alright that last comment finally shows some honesty.

Most women expect men to understand them to a certain extent. The more they like the guy the more wiggle room he gets to make mistakes. The less they like him the more likely they will label him a “creep” despite what he actually did right or wrong.

But figuring out if a woman likes or not requires strong intuition. Intuition most men aren’t born with and we only gain through painful trial and error.

If you want men to respect you more, why don’t PUT SOME EFFORT into understanding our POV. Dating is a pain in the ass for most of us. It’s constant risk taking. If we don’t take a risk we stay lonely. Period.

You writing these self centered takes that focuses exclusively on men being to blame for “harassment” is harming well meaning but inexperienced guys who are already nervous about approaching women.

[WowwGirl]

@youknowbetter if my points of view are harming anyone in anyway. 1. You don't have to read my writing 2. If one strangers view is effecting you to that level you need professional help and I'm not your problem.

[youknowbetter]

That problem I have with women like you @WowwGirl is that young impressionable men will read this and get even more passive and less confident when seeing women they want to approach. They are scared of looking “creepy” as you so went into details above. Even if they do strike up a conversation they are going to play it safe out of fear of #metoo bullshit.

Also speaking of professional help. I think you have an issue and that’s why you had to write this entirely one sided take. If you spent more time understanding the male POV then you argument would of been fairly balanced.

Next time you write one of these takes start it with your own personal experience so we the readers know it’s an op ed. You treat like a science.

[WowwGirl]

@youknowbetter I don't know you Your opinion means nothing to me sorry didn't read past line two

[youknowbetter]

Given your mental capacity your willful ignorance is no surprise.

[WowwGirl]

@youknowbetter name calling shows several things
Work on your vocabulary please. Best wishes

[archiz]

Yea I thought it was common sense to know the difference between flirting and harassment.
The ones blaming their looks can go fuck themselves. If I don't find you attractive I am not going to flirt with you period that's my right lol.
If you didn't find me attractive you wouldn't have initiated on me specifically.
So yea looks matter, duh.
A lot of guys trying to defend themselves that they didn't know they were being aggressive.
Euh... srsly they definitely do and they enjoy it. Some guys like to feel in power, and the fact that they can intimidate by being aggressive towards you does please them. That's why they are called predators.
And they do it because they know they can and they don't care of the effects.
Now to be objective, I am not saying all guys are like that of course not but some are predators and I have experienced harassment several times to be paranoid about it.
I can be wearing baggy clothes covering all of my body and simply running for a jog and have cars slow down next to me, whistling and calling me words.
I can be at a party and have guys grope me from behind out of nowhere and get mad if I push them away XD
So it's really hilarious.

[youknowbetter]

Alright I get your point. But honestly I can count the times on one hand I’ve seen a guy doing this to a girl. It was rare but yes I've seen happen and it’s very wrong.

I have never in my life “harassed” a woman. I have said stupid things on dating apps or text messages. But in person if I ever got a hint a woman was uncomfortable or especially if she said “I’m not interested” I stop immediately. And of course I’ve had plenty of my friends say I was “too shy and timid” when I was younger. But when I read takes like this... where do I draw the line?

With that your point about “it’s about two people building desire together”. This requires that the guy has very strong intuition to read a woman’s signals. The vast majority of guys don’t have that. They have to gain that with age and experience. I pay much more attention to a woman’s body language and facial expressions nowadays. But when I was 19 not as much. It would be nice if women can be better at directly communicating with men. That is give them ONE chance by politely saying “hey it was nice to meet you and that was confident of you to approach me. But I’m have to be honest I’m not interested. Thx”. No if he persists after that it’s harassment. But at least give him that (unless he made a dumbass sexual joke/comment right off the bat).

If more women could speak up it will help with the more common borderline issues. Just remember guys are EXPECTED to approach women and it’s not like we all enjoy the risk taking either. There needs to be better communication on both sides this. Right now it the difference between a guy being funny/bold vs. “creepy” comes down to how attractive the woman thinks he is.

That’s a pretty shitty guideline.

[NameWidNoFace]

By posting that pic of the girl looking at her shoulder with a mans hand on it, are u really trying to say that’s harassment?

i agree sexual harassment is bad, but it’s ridiculous how girls now think everything is harassment and the smallest, most petty things is harassment, it’s stupid... it should only be called harassment if it actually is fuckin harassment, I can’t support this new theory that everything is harassment

do you really think that guy has sexual intent on his mind and is jus trying to get away with it by making it look innocent?
i highly fucking doubt it, no guy gets sexual kicks from that,
it’s jus a guy placing his hand where it wouldn’t be natural,
where else are u suppose to place your hand when helping someone on a computer?
down by your side so you look all stuff and awkward?
imagine how mad that guy would be if that woman claimed he harassed her when he was jus trying to help her, what a ridiculous bitch,

i know now I would be mad, I would slap her... and say “oh you want harassment? There u fucking go”

[NameWidNoFace]

Place his hand where it would be natural*

[NameWidNoFace]

Stiff and awkward *

[NameWidNoFace]

By the way jus so you dumbass females know

A stranger running up to you squeezing your ass and running off... that’s harrassment...

A guy putting his hand on shoulder while helping you on computer... that’s not fuckin harrassment

A guy looking st you... that’s also not harrassment

A guy joking and saying his name is hugh G reaction... that is also NOT FUCKING HARRASMENT

A guy raping you, that’s harrasment

A guy touching your boobs... that’s harrassment

A guy looking at your boobs... that’s not harrassment

Do you understand where I’m going with this?
Geez they need to start teaching this in schools jus so girls don’t think everything is harrassment, so dumb

[NameWidNoFace]

Also... a guy starts up a conversation with you... NOT FUCKIN HARRASMENT

[WowwGirl]

Gay.

[WowwGirl]

And weak

[_piotr]

I agree, nowadays almost everything is considered harrasment. Asking for direction or saying "Good morning" can end up with women suing you for harassment.

[AllAmericanGirl99]

Agreed it depends largely on the guy.

[Nadim171]

Or sometimes on his bank account.

[WowwGirl]

@Nadim171 no creeps a creep

[Nadim171]

The thing is you can't really know if they'll take it as harassment or flirting. So you either risk it or not flirt at all.

[Prof_Don]

I agree with @Nadim171 , as a guy we gotta risk it for the biscuit

[SuckMyJammy]

but what do u girls consider to be sexual harrassment nowaday?
A guy approaching and talking to yu? a guy checking you out by look at u?

yeah... u see this is why we guys can never agree with u on what sexual harrassment is... these 2 things seem totally fine and normal human behaviour to us, its human nature to wanna check out something u see as sexually attractive... in guys opinions sexual harrassment is grabbing and groping without consent or rape,
talking to a girl isn't sexual harrassment to us, but call it what u want

[SuckMyJammy]

lol joke

[Number39]

Exactly, if it was an attractive guy it would hardly be called "harassment"

[Silver158]

I agree with this to an extent. checking someone out isn't sexual harassment, women do that too, everybody does. The only women who hold it to be harassment are looking for attention and have a victim complex, the type who's gran has died for the 4th time that month.

Talking to or approaching a woman isn't sexual harassment but it's based on the content of the conversation more than anything. For example, asking for directions isn't sexual harassment. Starting a basic socially normative conversation "Hi, how are you doing? etc etc" not sexual harassment. Making a comment on their appearance, however, can go either way. Starting the conversation with "Hello boobs" is likely sexual harassment (I've done this before and it was well-received but hey ho lol).

[weasley8]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I get so sick of explaining it to people. I get so sick of people trying to make me feel bad for not being interested in them. My favorite response to the "it's only harassment if you're ugly" argument is "and so what?" Like that makes it okay? If you think someone is only not interested in you because of your appearance, that's great. Sucks to be you. Either way, they've indicated that they're not interested. Now leave them alone.

My favorite line in this: "When your version of flirting gets 'mistaken' by someone for sexual harassment, then you need to consider that maybe you suck at flirting." A+ I may have to use that in the future.

[WowwGirl]

You're welcome 💗💗💗 thank you for reading

[_piotr]

"and so what?" Like that makes it okay? <-- this is serious as it shows there are no objective standards by which an action might be categorised as harassment.

[_piotr]

So how a poor guy can know is he harassing you or not if it depends of your subjective feeling of aesthetics?

[Chriscunning]

I think you got it pretty much on the head. 'Flirting is when both parties are happy'. I have been in a work situation were a man called a girl his "work wife" and "you enjoyed it in the parking lot before work" and once in a sexy outfit even had a comment about it making me randy. All of it was laughed off in good fun.

Another male colleague commented on the skimpy outfit, no where near as vulgar but was met with a big frown and a complaint to management. The difference, she liked one but not the other.

The only point I can slightly disagree with is the ignorance. I think 'initial ignorance' can be forgiven. "You stepped on my foot, don't do it again!". I think in my scenario above I found it a little unfair. I think 80% of men would realize a frown is an indicator for "I don't like this" and leave it. The 20% that persist I think clear communication should be given that "I don't like this" (in writing to show the seriousness). Then strike 3, you're out.

[Mehzmeh]

I use to be oblivious to these things. And then, it happened to me. I had a commander who up front told me. If O wanted to get promoted. I have to sleep with her. And when I said no. She would just randomly show up in my office. Put her hand on my shoulder. Or rub my back. And when I reported her. They said whe said she was just trying to flirt. And it was harmless. And since that happened before I, was 22. I made sure that I kept my flirrting rated G. Until we got intiment. Then it went straight to R. Lol

[Anpu23]

The problem is that often if you are making someone uncomfortable they don't feel comfortable telling you. As an example, I hate being touched by non loved ones, especially on my shoulders. So someone being friendly and patting or grabbing my shoulders makes me cringe inside, even more so if it's a woman. Yet I very rarely articulate it, because it is often perceived as an act of rudeness ("please don't touch me") somehow becomes a personal attack. I know that some women feel the same way. Yet people aren't mind readers, unset boundaries are ripe for misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

[Yaaten]

This,

"Not understanding boundaries or social norms isn’t an excuse for shitty behaviour towards people. You may not mean to step on someone’s foot, but arguing about how you didn’t mean to doesn’t undo the fact that you’re stepping on it. You have offended the person period."

is ridiculous. "Social norms" have a habit of changing. Constantly. I'm not up to date with the latest norms, and even if I were I would probably not understand them (due to the fact that when it comes to the unwritten rules of social interaction I've always been mystified by them). If a person doesn't mean to cause harm or suffering, then that should always be taken into consideration as a mitigating factor, because maliciousness is required for one to be found guilty of committing a crime or some faux pas. As for "being offended" - Pffft! EVERYONE is "offended" these days! It doesn't mean a damn thing anymore.

[Gravit1]

Its not as cut and dry as you attempt to make it. Despite what Rick Astley says, you don't know the rules neither do I. Different people play by a different set of rules based on location, culture, age, gender, and beliefs. There is inappropriate behavior and immature behavior that is clear across the board. Not excepting rejection or physical aggression are of these. However, flirting is a lot more complex. There was this girl I was attracted to and would talk to, I found out I couldn't be with her, but she still sought me. She would touch me a lot as well as other flirtations. Since I couldn't be with her this behavior was not good for either of us, but since I was attracted to her I can't honestly say it felt bad. If the situation were reversed I could honestly see harassment filed, but was personally conflicted. There are other such cases out there and I'm sure females have felt conflict.

[Hunter7754]

Men often can't do anything right. Even if we respect a girl's boundaries, they still sometimes get mad at us.

I'll give you an example. There was this girl I used to talk to. Me and her got in an argument. She told me "stop messaging me" so I said to her "okay".

Later she gets pissed off at me and asks why I never messaged her and I told her "Because you told me not to and I was trying to respect your boundaries". She said "If you really cared you would've messaged me anyway but you dont care".

I did everything right and I STILL got shit from her... -_-

[Crazybeeguy]

I had a similar scenario it's stupid

[Walt832]

Me and my friend we flirt because we are good looking. The one with the cocktail similar what she does and me the one rolling my eyes. Than later when she is focus on a convo we drinking coffee I blink or bite my lips. She does this 🤭. I don't know but this forum made me laugh.

When she sees me with females. Later she imitate one of them. I'll just 🤫🤭😂. She goes 🤭😋🤫. Or sometimes she walks away behind them and teases me with a water bottle licking the top. I am 🤨🙄 (this girl maaaan).

Oooh!!! last time she grab 2 melons and start waterboat only because the girl that was talking to me had a good sets of air bags. I am like 😏. She just 😁.

We only agreed to flirt nothing beyond and no touching.

[genericname85]

but vice versa: flirting isn't harrasment. just saying. society tends to see harrassment in litterally everything these days. people jump to the conclusions that because they didn't want the attention, that it must have been harrassment, when in fact he had no reason to assume that it wasn't wanted. if you're annoyed by a guys approach, take a step back and think about if he could actually have known that you didn't want his approach or are you just projecting your emotions and judging based on that?

[katieExplainsItAll]

Love this.. I just posted about someone in my complex who is technically a neighbor constantly texting me ,"wyd. Whatchu bouta do?" All the time. Then he goes outside when I'm outside literally exact same time as me. No coincidence whatsoever. Goes to his car as if he's getting something but gets nothing out. Just creepy.. my other neighbor acts like it's ok says ,"oh I used to go outside just to bump into someone I was interested in." That's creepy we're both adults just speak up

[WowwGirl]

Thank you