Because some men are incredibly stupid man children that don't understand that no means no..
They can't understand due to their poor upbringing
Opinion
73Opinion
They think that being "nice" gives them allowances.
Training, personality, skills.
Training - Parents, teachers, culture... how are these brats being trained and disciplined to treat women? We've gone way down hill since the days of "court" and "chivalry". who beat his rear if he did something wrong and who trained him how to treat a lady? So many dads are missing, or flawed. Teachers are made useless by the system and media/music... you already know what that looks. Our culture is way over sex charged.
Personality - Divide men into two camps... men who have empathy and men who don't (lets call them sociopaths or narcissists.. but not all of them are so extreme, but for sure... you think they have feelings, but they don't care about other peoples feelings. They care about themselves and what they get, for they are king). There are more of them these days, I don't know why... broken families? But it is so important to realize, they don't feel like you do.. and see my point about attraction below. Some of them... want to hurt someone else, it's who they are. They are sick. Splash a little alcohol into this, or some heavy temptation... not good. The empathetic guys, until they do a lot of repair work, you don't even see them, they don't show up, or are passed over by many women because they appear weak compared to the strong males who are putting up a facade.
Skills and training - do they know how to effectively romance and seduce the woman? Were they trained by their male friends and other women to do what they are doing... and they get rewarded? Thus, they keep doing it because it works.. e. g. Harvey Weinstein, Matt Laur, alpha males. They text someone, they come up... they get sex. Gee... that was easy, do that again! No mistaking what happens when you give a child a cookie before dinner.
...
Those are the main reasons. Regarding attraction, this is sub conscious. Opposites draw (an empathetic female or highly feminine will draw a less emotional male. The wounds in each persons sub conscious attract. This could be a YOU issue to work out. For example, if your father was a drunk wife beater and you saw it, you likely will be drawn to that energy... and get the same.
Women own some of this. I find it ironic that "Lexyissexy" is asking this question. Not EmilyisElegant, or ClassyCarol, or GentleGinger. Nope... it's LexyisSexy. Women think they can dangle a strong attractive element in front of testosterne charged guys who are under pressure to get a female (watch the birds chase each other in the spring) without being impressed upon inappropriately. Ideally, they could. But see point #1, guys are terribly trained or not at all... and are often rewarded for their aggression (corruption by females). By flaunting your stuff in certain ways, and projecting energy certain ways... you eliminate the guys you might really want and draw others you don't.
Let me answer with two specific situations.
On another reply I told the story about the crazy girl who yelled at me for not hugging her when we first met. So right there, I'm respecting personal space, I'm not assuming anything, I'm not making ANY moves and I got yelled at for my trouble.
Contrast that with this story.
2003 I'm working for a company and I meet this girl in a different part of the area. I'm not in any way attracted to her, but I help her out with stuff, so we connect, basic friends, nothing fancy.
2004 I go to a different department. The company Treasurer (basically two levels down from the top level) contacts me, girl has applied for a job in his department but she has no experience in the subject. Apparently she has listed me as a reference. I meet and talk to him and put her over. She gets hired. Her DREAM job, mind you.
She contacts me, thanks me, hugs me, the whole nine. Then she invites me out to lunch on a couple of occasions.
My birthday comes around and we're talking about lunch plans. I said, "it'll be an awesome birthday present to get to have lunch with you today."
Silence. Mind you, we've been texting on the regular up until this point.
I follow up. She eventually says, quote, "I don't think we should go out to lunch together anymore because I think you're getting feelings for me" and stops responding completely.
Contrast THAT story with this one.
2004, I meet an Asian girl, blind date through the phone, she seems cool. She comes to my place and we're sitting watching a movie, not really talking.
Suddenly this girl is all over me. I'm talking halfway to rape all over me. After not talking, not cuddling, nothing.
I push her off (if it's THAT easy, something's wrong with it), she gets offended and leaves.
Moral: the goalpost moves with women. Some women get defensive over nothing, some take it straight up to the line but don't go over, some have no boundaries whatsoever.
That's why guys don't know the line - because the line is not clear.
First of all I just want to say that the answer isn't as black and white as one might assume or think. There are multiple issues such as gender identity, socioeconomic status, cultural identity, educational level, IQ or intelligence quotient, being brought up in singular versus nuclear family, etc and those are just the tip of the iceberg. Dynamic nature, multiple facets, and complex interactions, require the answer to be answered with a delicate touch. It cannot be easily simplified or explained to where it applies to everybody involved and every circumstance or put into any situation. But I will do my best to give my simplest answer where I hope it applies to everybody.
Number one. Keep it verbal. Number two. Keep it friendly and fun and never sexualize it.
For men a good rule of thumb is think if you were forced to watch your daughter flirting with an unknown male. Forced to listen and witness all dialogue, responses and physical cues. Where would you draw the line. If you treat these women with that same level of respect, I seriously doubt any lines will be crossed. Another good rule of thumb for men is to stop stereotyping women based on appearance and type of clothes being worn and using it to assume intense level of aggressive flirting is wanted. Never assume. Keep it fun.
For the ladies. Understand that your appearance, style of dress clothing choice, language choice, etc., can elicit an unwanted or negative response. Awareness is your responsibility. You would not go dressed in a provacative manner to be seen before a judge. It's ok to want to feel and be looked upon ad sexy, and it is your right to do so, but always keep in mind the event type, location, type of people attending, etc. Look before you leap. Pay attention to behaviors prior to engaging in conversation. If you're wearing a low-cut cut blouse and you see him constantly staring at your breasts yet decide to engage in some friendly flirting, you could be setting yourself up for unwanted behaviors.
This is also for both... Flirt sober. If doing otherwise, realize inhibitions, awareness, and ability to think and rationalize go down the drain.
Now my answer is an opinion only. It is not intended to upset anyone. I am more than happy to argue any point of view as long as the participants argue using evidence based, peer reviews data. If not, if will not even respond, and allow your ignorance to shine brightly all by itself.
Its where ever she says it is. Thats the problem. It’s different for every woman. Men should not initiate. Especially at work.
Cost for getting it wrong is no due process in the court of twitter, job lose, or
death.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/revolting/false-report-largo-386952
https://m.theepochtimes.com/utah-man-dies-after-false-sexual-assault-claim-sparks-fatal-revenge-attack_2911638.html
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/a_suicide_at_the_university_of_texas_reveals_dark_side_of_metoo_movement.html
https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/08/03/the-metoo-suicides/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/metoo-has-become-vicious-hate-mob-will-not-end-women/
https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/when-men-kill-themselves-over-unproven-allegations-me-too-has-gone-too-far/
Its a blurry line and every chicks sensitivity is different. The level of attraction back plays more of a factor than anything and if a guy misreads the reciprocal nature of the relationship he's fucked. And it's 100 percent based on female opinion which is hardly a scale of any reliability or dependability or consistency. It's the reason so many many men are so bitter towards women. I'm not just because I'm lucky and have gotten positive feedback from females I flirt with but I can easily see that the only thing keeping me from being charged with harassment is my ability to read situations and be appropriately aggressive as its recieved well. Unfortunately women know the power they have with a simple no evidence needed complaint and the few who would take advantage of the power have scared shitless reasonable non creepy non harrassing good guys. It's the same women who know men can never hit women so they hit men or intentionally provoke as hard as they can to torture men against their instinct. This model of a woman should be shamed and discredited and if false accusations have occurred punished. If my daughter turns out this way I will believe I have failed.
I think space is important here but to be fair, I have woman come close to me a number of times as a professional. Will push against my body with theirs. While filling out paperwork or even showing me that computer stuff, she will get as close as she needs to to get the the key board properly. Some ask to move others just get close to get the work done. I think for some people they just don't have a proper concept of space. Especially when you have been working with someone for a while so you feel more comfortable with them. But I think it's fair to say your uncomfortable or to ask for space
I just play it safe and don't flirt with woman at all... then I just leave it for the woman to make the move.. if she really likes me then she will make it obvious.
So I basically float through my life not acknowledging any attractions... even in the gym I get girls sometimes looking or more so obvious using the machine next to me when there is 100s free and could have their own space... but I still don't act on it..
They come to me or not at all.
Because that line is different from woman to woman. Remember that video where that woman filmed herself walking in New York and she called it "harassment" when a guy simply said "hello, how are you doing?"
https://www.youtube.com/embed/b1XGPvbWn0AAlso a lot of women tend to be very biased towards who's flirting with her. A lot of times a woman will allow a guy to harass her if she finds him attractive and accuse a guy of harassment when he's clearly flirting when she finds him unattractive.
The guys who do blatantly harass have mental issues and are immature douche bags and I have how these guys tend to represent all men these days.
The problem is most guys don’t know if a girl is being flirty or if she is just being nice most guys can’t read girls just like most girls can’t read guys A guy will know if another Guy is being flirty with a girl where the girl pretty much won’t have a clue , same as another girl knowing a girl is being flirty to a guy when the guy doesn’t have a clue , this shit happens a lot , it’s hard for the opposite sex to really pick up on whether the person is being flirty or being nice , there were plenty of times I was just being nice to a girl just making small conversation not hitting on her at all and another
Girl will tell me she likes you and I be like no she doesn’t we are just having small talk and she say look at how she smiles and gets all giggly when she is near you , so again most guys can’t pick up on that body language like a girl can vice versa
Not saying EVERY woman, but many, in general, put up with it for too long, even when it bothers them, and they don't say anything, maybe because of social things, and not wanting to be labeled as a 'bitch' because he is 'just teasing' or 'having fun'.
It isn't, for her. Ladies, if he is saying things, or touching you, you have to say NO, and make it a point! If you don't say NO, and later something more happens, you don't have the documented record of saying NO, and DON'T!!
Why do women just put up with sht like that, and for so long?
How can I know when flirting is harassment in the first place? They can't tell the difference and it's not necessarily their fault. The fault lies with us who chooses not to set boundaries and pick and choose who you want to be sexually involved with in those ways instead of just saying no. Those guys that do that already have an agenda. I blame both parties for this.
People who have been brought up with some kind of severe ignorance often do things like this. The instances to which you are referring is likely a product of having been brought up in circles which do not condemn or even praise things that most people know to be harassment. The reason that, despite the problems this philosophy causes, they have not changed their minds and have stuck to these ignorant beliefs is because, in situations where said people are given the opportunity to change, their actions are usually self-justified with some excuse.
The truth is different people have a different perception of what "harassment" is. It really depends on the culture you were raised in. Some girl draw the line at a simple wink, others let you go as far as kissing their hand/cheek.
When I was in Chile our female tour guide was kissing every guy on the cheeks, in Poland a stranger kissed my mom's hand, and in Greece, the Polish girls allowed the boat captain to smack their asses.
So the biggest issues arrive when two cultures or even just two mentalities clash. What's considered harassment to one girl, might not be considered harassment to another girl, and when men get away with it once, they get the perception that it's okay to behave that way towards every girl.
by the way, women can harass men too.
Well for me its more of "idk it was harassment" situation, i flirt with friends and we josh around but i feel like i can take the joke as far for girls as i take it for guy and some girls are uncomfortable with the distance i took the joke.
If you feel uncomfortable with something or someone just be honest you'd be surprised by how much people are ignorant of your personal limits
What's the difference between flirting and harrassment?
I have never flirted with a girl in my teenage years and in my early adult life, many girls where always hovering around me and felt safe and happy, they smiled to me and always wanted to flirt with me, why is that? 😂
Maybe a girl feels safe around me knowing that i'm a man who will never have sex before marriage, also i don't like touching or hugging...
Girl never play with me using their hands because they know that it makes me irritated and they know that playing with me using their hands might get them hurt...
The only person that i will touch and harrass is my future girlfriend because i have her consent and the only person whom i'll feel comfortable with and have sex with is my future wife.
Because of mixed signals throughout life as men and persistence is usually how you get the girl. Two fundamentals laws of man ethics and teachings.
Obviously there are clear signs when somebody says no.
But, I guarantee most men have had a situation where some woman has confronted him and said "why did you listen to me when I said no", "why did you stop", "I was interested in you but you stopped talkingto me" or something of that nature.
Thus, why we cross this line. To fly or fall
If I was flirting with a girl and after awhile she just seemed uncomfortable with and wanted me to leave her again. I would just stop and leave her alone. If a women doesn't say she feels uncomfortable then the guy is like I can get away with it and things lead to one thing to another. I think some guys don't know that certain lines shouldn't be crossed and take advantage of openings that they know that you have an opening and strike hard without thinking about what the consequences would be for their actions.
they do know, but they dont care, they jus like to keep pushing buttons and annoy u,
once they discover ur not intrested in them, what would it hurt to keep tryna get them to change their mind and annoy them even further? doesn't hurt to try
Because it's literally completely dependent on the woman.
Just because she says she likes it one day doesn't mean she'll like it the next. Hell she could grind on you 1 day, then call H. R the next. If you dont want harassment, dont flirt at all at work. Period!
And if you're facing harassment make it clear that you dont want it. Say it twice then report it clearly.
No there's no middle man, or guy who knows it all. Only you know what you can take, and only you know how you want to deal with it.
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