Modern women actually are not imitating men

[ThisDudeHere]

There's a common idea circulating today that the modern woman is trying to imitate man. And at first glance, one might agree with the notion. But in my opinion the idea is not 'entirely' true.

If we were to look at how women used to dress, act or work a century or two ago or even longer, and how they do it today, the immediate conclusion one would arrive to would be, "women used to act more feminine." And by feminine it is understood that they used to go by their old gender roles - cooking, cleaning, acting helpless in front of men (whilst doing a lot of unforgiving house chores by themselves), and dressing inconveniently on occasion (who the hell thought the corset was a good idea?). While today they supposedly dress like men and act like men.

But I maintain that the view that women are less feminine than they were is misguided. And here's my explanation why:

If simply put, throughout history women:

• had to act feminine;


• and pretty much had no other choice but to act feminine.

As for men, they on the other hand:

• had to act masculine;


• BUT they had considerably more leeway when it came to acting freely.

Men had comparably more freedom.

I'm not one to deny that men also had plenty of gender roles and expectations, often negative, to live by but nobody batted an eye much when they goofed off and acted differently. Women unfortunately received comparably harsher penalties for stepping out of line.

And this has been going on for millennia so it's understandable that the notion of freedom of expression has been linked to masculinity. Think about it, without mentioning the gender, if someone were to describe to you a person as - free spirited, adventurous, a risk taker and indifferent to other's opinions, most people would assume that the described person is male.

The entire "boys will be boys" and "act like a lady" mirror this - males are more free in freedom of expression while girls are more expected to follow guidelines. It is this freedom that women lacked throughout history and are only growing accustomed to now.

• Having fun in a relatively dangerous manner is seen as a guy thing. In reality it's not masculine, it's just freedom.


• Goofing around is also not intrinsic to masculinity. It's freedom.

So there should not be anything wrong with a woman having fun and acting, say, stupid because there's nothing unfeminine about that. She masculine when doing that the same way a guy is not masculine. They're both just free.

tl;dr My point is that the modern woman is not striving to imitate man and become masculine. She's striving to get in on the comparably bigger freedom that men had possessed. That's it.

All right thanks for reading dudes and dudettes. Have a nice day 8)

[hellionthesage]

Actually you have it backwards, a woman could act in a more masculine capacity while men had no choice but to act masculine. To act in any way other then masculine for a man would result in at best social ostricization and at worse death. Usually death and exile where the norm not the exception. Women on the other hand could do what they wished for the most part, for example you have the scandinavian shield maidens who where warriors. They could choose to take on the more masculine role as warrior if they wished or the more feminine role of mother or in the case of scandinavians, spiritualistic/magic use (magic as in divination and consulting with spirits and gods). For a man he had to be a warrior, and he would be exiled or killed if he attempted to go into more femine territory, the belief was that it was ergi or unmanly for him to consult with spirits/magic (which was part of their, and most every cultures at the time, religion). A man was expected to be direct and forthright, he was not allowed to be a coward, so much in fact that he would be punished in the after life for cowardice just as much as in this one. The same goes for the ancient scithians, the women of which are believed to be the inspiration of the greek amazonian myths. Many of these women where found in burial chambers with their weapons (and many having damage done to their body only sustainable in battle) disproving this idea. So the fact is women have always had a greater leeway then men have in how they acted and behaved. It may have been frowned upon in many societies but their was no real consequence to it, for men on the other hand, even the suggestion of it (like being called ergi) would result in an obligatory duel to the death to prove that they where not and if they did not would be exiled. How this idea that it was reversed came to be I have no idea but it very much is not true. Also acting like a lady was inforced by the mother and women not the men. This was to ensure that the daughter would have the best possible future ie a marriage so that she could have everything she needed to survive (for most of history women where not physically strong enough to farm thus requiring men and pregnancy on their own without a supportive man would have most likely resulted in death through starvation or simply because of being in a sensitive situation (hard to defend yourself or hunt when nine months pregnant or carrying around an infant). So it was primarily the women who pushed for it.

[ThisDudeHere]

I wasn't talking about completely disregarding one's masculinity. Picture this: a bunch of guys, let's say soldiers, are marching but one of them farts and the others laugh and start making jokes. Perfectly normal. A woman does the same and she's immediately labeled unladylike.

[Mishae]

What he is doing is trying to twist reality. Sure everything he says is fine but he says it in a manner as hinting the putdown of today's women. Saying it's okay but hinting it's wrong

[hellionthesage]

Not really, that is having two stanards of behavior (which is different to role), which also is unvarifiable as we really don't know how society would have reacted historicly speaking under those circumstances. That is more a projection of current standards presumptions rather then what actually was (not to say it may not be true, only that we cannot verify it, at least to my knowledge). But again you stated that men had greater leway then women when it came to their roles which as I pointed out was simply not the case, the inverse in fact was true. Women where more valuable then men which meant women had a greater leway because of greater leverage. @Mishae I don't know what you mean?

[ThisDudeHere]

"That is more a projection of current standards"

You may have a point I have not considered before. But anyway thank you for your opinion, sir.

[hellionthesage]

Not a problem, a lot of people forget how different things where historicly (like the fact most homes where one room for a large part of history so it was actually normal for a child to be in the same room as his parents while they had sex, yeah weird.) for instance their use to be something called first and second sleep, which was phased out as we became industrialized (people would sleep for roughly five hours, wake up at night talk to the neighbors, have sex, or sit back and relax then go and have another three to four hours of sleep).

[LittleSally]

Nice. =)

I agree. Freedom to do what you want and need is very important. Nice MyTake.

P. S.
Your title may get you a lot of angry girls. Haha (At least those who don't read it all the way through.)

[ThisDudeHere]

And I thought that my title was as neutral as possible lol

[LittleSally]

Haha Well now you know better. xD

[queenmariereigns]

I don't see how this mytake would make a lot of girls angry

[LittleSally]

@queenmariereigns Not the mytake... just the title... As you can see not many read past that.

[lilac_flowers]

You make a lot of mistakes here. A gender role is a role society sets for a gender to fill. This is about actions, not personality. Only a society which needs you to do a certain action, idealizes a personality that would best fills that action (role).
-----------------------------------

Gender role is not a personality description.

Having said that, women and men have inherent differences. These differences in their biological make-up are there by design to make us complement one another. They exist as a FUNCTION of human race. Without them you have divorces and anti-depressants.

A traditional society, while going above and beyond in defining how a man and a woman should be (which inevitably leads to exaggerations and misunderstandings, because mass brain is dumb) also supports their functional, healthy differences and creates attraction and harmony. It has a flaw that should be mended: sexism, but it works for the majority of people because it allows you to HONE your gender specific strengths, instead of focusing on being like the opposite gender. This "honing of gender difference" creates someone who is attractive and who can create a stable relationship with opposite gender.
Here few feel oppressed, but majority is happy and close.
------------------------------------------

A feminist society on the other hand starts from a false premise because it has a different agenda (working women, consumer society, fake equality). Its mass brain has huge lies impregnated into it that gender is a social construct and that happiness means freedom, then it goes above and beyond to repress gender difference altogether mocking the very notion of it, because again, mass brain is a retard brain.
This society is marked by complete misunderstanding of the meaning of femininity and masculinity, thinking: doing something=masculinity and doormat=femininity. This complete rejection of male and female tendencies, strengths and inherent weaknesses as if they're shameful creates few happy people who are different by nature, while majority are miserable, unattractive and alone.

[ThisDudeHere]

Thank you for your opinion.

[orphan]

LOL @ owners response.

[ThisDudeHere]

@orphan what would you want then? I appreciated her for taking the time to read and then write all of what she did. And even if I disagree with something, doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it.

[orphan]

i like your response.

[Rawrzz]

If a man showed up in a dress, do you think he would be more accepted or less accepted? Only if it was as a joke. Women have less freedom in clothing choice? You must be kidding me. So many areas you could have made a better argument in.

And why, exactly, would someone think of a male when they think of risk taking? Perhaps, because males are significantly more likely to take risks? Given the death rate among workers is 93% male--and only 6% of military women (in the U. S.) profess a desire to see combat... I'm going to guess people think of males when they think of risk taking... because males take way more risks more than women. This so-called freedom you often equate with danger does not take biological value into account. Sperm is cheap, worthless. Eggs are valuable. If humanity loses a male, it's no biggie. If humanity loses a woman, it's significantly more of a big deal. Women are more self-preservative along with having (much) higher value and self-perceived value, in general.

Exactly what leeway are you talking about here? What "leeway" did men have to act more freely than women? You seem to fail to mention that in your post. You're just making a bunch of claims, as if it's common knowledge.

To end, women have far more leeway in the dressing area. You couldn't have picked a worse topic, in my opinion. "Should be nothing wrong with a woman acting goofy." Clearly, you have never seen the Sarah Silverman Show.

Give me a general societal example of how this is a trend. You say "There's a common idea circulating today that the modern woman is trying to imitate man." If it's common, you shouldn't have any difficulties finding some proof for that claim.

More expected to follow the guidelines? You're going to have to come up with a list, because just saying it's so... doesn't make it so.

Ugh. Why do I bother. Ah. From Lativa. At least make it country specific, bro.

"If simply put, throughout history women:

had to act feminine;
and pretty much had no other choice but to act feminine.

As for men, they on the other hand:

had to act masculine;
BUT they had considerably more leeway when it came to acting freely.
"
This is so tremendously vague it hurts my soul. Define "acting freely". How about "Men had to act masculine... and pretty much had no other choice but to act masculine."

[Anonymous]

The expectations for men have barely changed.

The freedom to fart and laugh about it is not really 'freedom'.

In fact, try being the guy who doesn't enjoy fart jokes. Women were expected to be dainty, men were expected to be rough and tumble.

While I would agree that men received many privileges that women did not, I think the idea that women could deviate more than men is absurd.

You only see it that way because men and women had different requirements. It's not just that they were expected to be on different points on a line, it's that there were different rules entirely for judging them.

So women are expected to be beautiful. And you can say 'men can dress however they want' and that's true, because it's not that men were supposed to be ugly, it's just that masculinity was less judged on looks.

On the other hand, men were and are expected to be physically brave. Here we could say 'women have more freedom', because women who are physically brave received praise, but they aren't shamed for lacking physical courage, whereas men are and were.

Women were expected to be pretty, sweet, polite, chaste.

Men were expected to be tough, brave, sexually virile, reliable and able to provide/protect.

Insults thrown at men and women still reflect these truths: women are put down as ugly, bitches, sluts/whores. Men are pussies/fags or more gently wusses, cowards. Online they are often accused online of being virgins, or 'living in their mother's basement'.

How often do we accuse a man of being a slut? How often do we accuse a woman of not being able to afford her own apartment?

How much has really changed?

[ThisDudeHere]

Thank you for your opinion.

[HikerDude]

No, this is incorrect. Masculinity has always been governed by more rigid behavioral strictures than those that rules femininity.

In the past, when women made a critical mistake, they were excused largely because women were seen as less able and thus could not be blamed for failings. Men, on the other hand, were castigated for any perceived weakness. Women were excused from most dangerous work--called men's work--while men had to do it or risk branding as a derelict. Women were also afforded the ability to remain in the home, excused from any work responsibilities outside the home. Men, on the other hand, were considered responsible for providing for their wives, and so had no choice but to work. This is why families had to offer dowries to any man who proposed to marry their daughters. They needed money to help offset the cost of caring for a woman.

[ThisDudeHere]

Well this is not what I have observed and learned myself but thank you for your well written argument, sir.

[hellionthesage]

The reason was actually because women where more vital from a biological perspective. A woman could only have a child once a year basicly, and then the child was dependent on the mother for several years after and then dependent on an adult if not the mother for many more. Meaning they where the limiting factor for how fast we reproduced. Inversely one man could, in theory, impregnate 19345 women if he had sex with a different fertile woman, everyday from the age of 18 to 71(obviously their would be much deviation both in how early he started and how old he was before it became impractical) this meant that men where the disposable sex which is why men where so readily sacrificed as opposed to women. And of course one would also have to acknowledge that women where as much apart of this conditioning as men as they had greater control over mate selection and raised the child for many years and thus had considerable influence over the young and old alike.

[cinderelli]

very good point well made..
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[ThisDudeHere]

Thank you :)

[nalaa]

YES! thank you. Just because men and women were put into tight gender roles in past, guys still think anything else in unacceptable. Girls do the same sometimes but to a much lesser extend.
A woman wants to be anything other than a housewife, she's automatically seen as masculine.

I think maybe guys are intimidated by women? Since women have been given the freedom to do the same things guys could, we have outperformed you at some.
More choice and not exact expectation obviously lead a bit of confusion though. People being able to choose their path rather than it being decided for them, makes it harder figure what we want and find someone who wants the same as you. It's just a normal logical consequence of having choice, so I don't know why guys have trouble with that?

Also a lot of men say feminists, today as well as in the past, acted like men. And well they had to, in order succeed in a world that is only accepting of men.

[loofah]

Agree! I think some of the men are indeed intimidated by independent-minded women, but maybe for some it's also because they thought it was better for men before even though a lot of the women didn't like it. I guess the thought of coming home to be served and loved after a long day at work does sound nice regardless of whether it's fair or not for women to have a choice. I feel like male issues on this site are only brought up in retaliation to feminism. I wonder if they really just care about the male issues or are just threatened and angered by feminism particularly.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for writing this! This is pretty much perfect- in my opinion. Many people think that women these days are trying to 'be men' or 'overthrow men' because women are power hungry monsters. They're not! This literally explains it so well. I nearly cried honestly.

[ThisDudeHere]

Thank you for reading, dudette :)

[bluenose1872]

Gender roles? Do people actually believe propaganda in our history attributed specific behaviour to males and females. Men and women were brainwashed to keep women under a glass ceiling. Your all idiots. Corporate classes try and tell you now through entrenched propaganda in pop culture that your gender role is stopping you achieving in life. It's bollocks. No one assigned anybody anything apart from nature. The whole point of the exercise is to drive a big wedge between men and women. Even the un said in agenda 21 the population of the world is unsustainable. What better way to cull human growth without causing a worldwide outcry than to make women and men repulsive to each other. Men are becoming more effeminate which women hate and women are being more assertive which men hate. You goofy bastards get played like a fiddle coz your too fukin stupid to learn anything that isn't drip fed from the tv. Corporations favourite puppets

[ThisDudeHere]

So are the moon landings fake?

[bluenose1872]

What are you asking me for? Go and ask nasa

[UtopianLobotomy]

•BUT they had considerably more leeway when it came to acting freely
and you women had harsher penalties if they didn't conform to gender roles.
A man would just usually succumb to the environment of war and competition or the elements or simply be killed... yeah, it doesn't get worse than that. Of course women didn't have it easy either they worked harder than most men today do... by far!

Your take: What a crock of shit... excuse me, I meant to say you build your argument from faulty premises.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting take. I understand your point. I do feel women have more freedom now than they ever have, and I do feel like there are plenty of feminine women still around. In fact I believe men and women are both masculine and feminine. Some more masculine than others and some more feminine than others. However, this is why more women seem to be masculine these days. The reason why is because they have the freedom to do so without being scrutinized for it. It still happens, but not as much as before.

Is it intimidating? Not really. For one thing if "boys will be boys" then "females will still be females". In other words there will be/are plenty of females who are masculine but still have a sense of caring for people. There are also plenty with masculine qualities who still don't desire to out-compete men. Us men are really our own competition as opposed to women competing with us. Not that women can't it's just that they often times choose not to.

[ScruffynateAK]

Yep comparably harsher penalties. Like for domestic abuse ;)
It's not like a guy who beat his wife was sent to the whipping post and a guy beaten by his wife was humiliated in silence if he was lucky, paraded about town as less of a man if he wasn't.
Now, of course freedom of choice is important for both sexes, and there is no way around the fact that women had a lot fewer choices back when.
The thing is, no one advocates the "feminine" things as a choice. They aren't seen as productive, difficult, or worthwhile.
Women who claim to hate gender roles today often don't, they hate FEMALE gender roles.

[Aud_Queen]

This was so refreshing to read. Thank you! 😀

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[Anonymous]

People also seem to forget that the little wifey who only took care of kids and met hubs at the door with a martini was a blip in history, only existed in the upper class and largely a figment of tv.

Most of the time throughout history, women, men and children did super hard physical work.

[bluenose1872]

Your talking sense. I seen a couple of documentaries from America years back where the women is actively broken by the man into a household role. It's all pre-planned like she signed a contract beside the marriage license. That was freaky. It was like watching actors falling into roles that were pre-assigned. That's not life. Thats for weird people with no concept of social interaction. Men and women enter a joint venture like building a life together then they negotiate out the details like who will be working and kids and yada yada. It's all to do with mutual responsibility and respect. A woman who thinks I'm weak isn't going to let me be in charge. Similarly a woman isn't going to tell me what's what just because she's been told she's got equal rights. If I respect her yes, if not then no. I think people are too entitled now. Used to get stuff in life depending on who you were and not because some idiot in a suit said you could.

[RomansToPhilemon]

Lol. This sounds like an excuse for a guy who is more feminine to feel better about himself? No guy wants a girl that acts like a man and vice versa. Feminine dudes need to stay home and quit enabling women.

[ThisDudeHere]

Well first of all, I'm not feminine. Second of all, if your masculinity is so fragile that you can't handle a woman who doesn't act feminine, then what does that say about you?

[RomansToPhilemon]

Spoken like a true woman. Verbatim.

[bluenose1872]

There's too many fruits in the world now trying to deconstruct the very nature of people. I don't know about you mate but I ended up masculine naturally not because I became a good actor. Why can't people just accept nature and be normal. I said above its corporate social engineering. They spied a profit in sewing discord between men and women. Women shouldn't be in charge of anything. I've heard women say that. It's a crazy time. Hopefully we'll get rid of the corporations and capitalism and claim back our world and sanity.

[Jager66]

"I'm not one to deny that men also had plenty of gender roles and expectations, often negative, to live by but nobody batted an eye much when they goofed off and acted differently. Women unfortunately received comparably harsher penalties for stepping out of line."

Not true.

[ThisDudeHere]

... Ok.

[9mfeo]

I have never understood why douchebros go on and on about how women have become so masculine since they now have the choice to be more than a simple housewife. Thank you for this. Illuminating.

[tolmbyy]

"BUT they had considerably more leeway when it came to acting freely"

Nope.

A mere 100 years ago we had men on the Titanic who refused to board lifeboats despite there being free space because they felt the pressured to act with "honour"

In general men have always been forced to act masculine, be the bread winner, die in wars etc

[Cuziloveyou]

It's population control, it brings the birthrates down. Men are attracted to femenine and woman are attracted to masculine this is why they have woman behaving like men and men behaving like bitch boys. They have the sexes repulse each other

[ThisDudeHere]

Do you think jet fuel can melt steel beams?

[RomansToPhilemon]

Some people have no clue how evil the world really is. You say population control and most laugh. Then we see the real statistics of divorce rate, single moms, breaking down of family/marriage, gay acceptance/pride, and on and on and on. It's mostly college brainwashing and government enabling. And don't forget your typical TV and movie brainwashing to make it feel 'real' and factual lol.

[bluenose1872]

Jesus sweetheart. Your more switched on than most of the adults on this site. We'll done. Always look behind the bullshit and see who profits

[EnglishArtsteacher]

Most women I know act exactly like the stereotypical female.

I actually don't know where the notion came from in general.

[Anonymous]

I disagree, "feminine" and "masculine" are just social constructs. We are definitely not imitating men, we are just freeing ourselves from the chains of patriarchy and male chauvinism.

[bluenose1872]

What patriarchy? Is this an American thing that everybody assumes was worldwide? The likes of thatcher was in charge in the 80s and according to your age your way younger than that. So what could you have experienced? Everywhere else it all depended who was respected and competent. That could be a man or a woman. We're under a socialist flag here though. Maybe capatalism is the root cause. It seems america is a country that favours the few and spurns the many. It's not a problem anywhere else trust me. There's girls that like being led and there's men who do the same.

[Opinion Owner]

@bluenose1872 You are delusional, I'm not American, I'm European.