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Being a real man does have a lot to do with how much money you make and how strong you are.
Any man that doesn't have a medical condition should desire to be stronger in order to protect himself or his family and any man who can't make enough money to support himself or his family, needs to sacrifice something in order to provide.
Only pussies believe in "toxic" masculinity. It sounds like something made from a critical theorist who writes feminist critiques
It's like the women who don't want to be slut shamed
"Don't judge me for being a shitty male human being. And not fulfilling my gender role" boohoo
MAN THE FUCK UP. Real men are problem solvers and figure out how to fix themselves and conquer their insecurities. They use shame as a motivating force not a way to feel butt hurt.
Also anger is one of the best emotions any human can feel! Anger always leads to action. men are expected to act. Anger can also be a very powerful motivator.
Feminists complicated everything
A Man is someone who provides and protects. We don't need to expand any definitions about masculinity
You are braaaaaaave to be willing to deal with all the shit posts on here!
I feel bad for guys because they're SO wrapped up what they should be that they don't sit down and think about what they want to be for themsleves. And then when people say "hey this is a way for you to BE yourself and help other guys" They get all offended and think you're attacking them. It's sad. media.giphy.com/media/RYAYGT3vSVDH2/giphy.gif
Yeah, I don't get it. I know u shouldn't be surprised, but I honestly kind of am surprised at just HOW offended guys are by the notion that they can choose to define their own masculinity how they want and that other men can choose differently... like... what on earth is offensive about that?
And they call us the emotional ones...
Lol!
Maybe they're afraid that if they don't follow the specific and narrow definition of masculinity they won't be Real Men anymore? They get a ton of messages about men needing to be Men but no one actually seems to say what a man is :(
I think the men are upset because telling them HOW to become free is itself the same thing. No matter how much one tries to be, one cannot tune out the very base instinctive level of our intellect. And because of that, an opinion about men from a woman will always be through a lens even slightly colored pink. True freedom means the freedom to make mistakes and develop fully on one's own without guidance.
@anindyameister It's not instinctive. It's trained into by society. That's part of what we're telling you.
@BellePepper my point was that, men will always look at female phenomena through a male perspective and vis-a-vis. No matter how much one tries to, one will never truly understand the opposite side.
@anindyameister It's not a a phenomena
Naw, we got another woman trying to explain how men SHOULD be or COULD be. The same trait used when they marry that alpha male bad-boy thinking they can change him. Boy oh boy, does that ever work out great.
Really, stick to the girl stuff. You haven't a clue about men.
@Browneye57 you realize what we're talking about doesn't include "boy stuff and girl stuff" right? We're talking about everyone stuff.
We're not telling anyone how to be other than be free and respectful of others.
That all sounds good, but the topic was 'toxic masculinity'. That's boy stuff.
And really, it's a made up term about a non-existent problem.
@Browneye57 It's a nonexistent problem that men are killing themselves because they can't express emotion? It's a nonexistent problem that men are killing women when they won't go out with then because they're taught to feel entitled to women? It's a nonexistent problem that men feel their main contribution to a relationship is the money they bring in instead of their worth as a wanted and valued member of the partnership?
Thankfully I was never raised like that. Though I do get made fun of occasionally for my openness about my desires and personality
Because a lot of the times women talk about how men need to be more like women because otherwise it's "toxic masculinity" if a guy wrote a post saying "what is a real women" you would get mad.
@Wolfstarking Nah I think they would just cringe at your grammar
Thank you for describing MGTOW for the most part and also for basically saying that men are the only ones to blame for trying to put men in a certain box unlike women who since time immemorial have only striven to see men as individuals and not as disposable objects of protection and resources and done their utmost to let men know that they can make whatever life decisions they deem best and most fulfilling for them and not at any one time demanded that men "man up" for not conforming to whatever improvised arbitrary gender role women had come up with on the spot.
Certainly it's the majority of modern men who complain that other men don't want to pay on the the first date and not women who have for the past 100 years gone on a social campaign to ensure that they are not treated like entitled princesses who use shaming tactics on men that are meant to insinuate that if a man doesn't fit whatever arbitrary archetype society has deemed he should fit girls won't like him and his existence will have been for nothing.
This is so on point! Thank you =)
We need more good people like you!
Unfortunately as boys we are raised to repress all emotions, be tough 24/7, be rich, be ripped and all that harmful influence. This is only the beginning of the basis damage done to us *some* (if not many) men.
With the right raising or attention with support given to us, these problems can be slowly deconstructed and we can be resurrected from the dread "self sense" - as to how we perceive in general.
Of course I am a real man: I exist, I am here. You can see me, you can touch me, you can smell me and you can hear me.
Aaand of course we got the men- no, BOYS - who disagree with this, probably haven't even read it too. Denying offering online support for men, who are endangered by potential toxic masculinity? There's no saving them.
Keep up the good work =) us decent men will appreciate it all!
Thank you!
I think the measure of a man is in the eyes of the beholder. Outwardly I am a normal guy, know my way under a hood, have a good supply of tools and can use them, like playing sports, not afraid of dogs etc etc. But I am also masculine enough to admit I am also a practitioner of Zen am in touch with my emotions. As an alpha male I am confident enough to acknowledge that a modern man needs a mixture of masculine and feminine qualities. Some woman want that toxic old school masculinity in their men but those women will probably regret that as they try to get their man to communicate and share their feelings with little to know success
I fully agree. Unlike the generation of our fathers, being an emotionally cold person not caring much about social/emotional intelligence, will stifle a man in this modern economy.
Simply "getting the job done" just isn't enough in the modern era as a man. A modern man has to be emotionally and socially intelligent, invoking positive emotion in the people around him.
In the modern era , a man can be an exceptional employee production-wise, but if he doesn't ingratiate himself with his coworkers and his bosses emotionally, his career life will be stifled severely.
As a man who is 5 foot 4 inches I have constantly felt in my life that I have been disqualified from the dating world. Everyday I go out and see couples doing couple things which in my opinion is a very basic thing in life which due to Notions of masculinity I have never been able to experience of my life. So I said at times I do feel that I was doing to be alone from birth since even shorter women judge me and still want men that are 6 feet. Life is truly unfair as this has nothing to do with a man's character, personality, or is ability to be a provider and lover.
I think it would be so awkward for a chick who's 5'2" to go with a dude who's 6 feet! My boyfriend is just under a head taller than me and I wouldn't want any taller.. most of the guys I dated before him were about my height or an inch or two taller.
Hmm well I'm not sure what to say. I just know a majority of women for men that are 6 feet tall. I am 5'4 and women who are 52 and under have disqualified me.
What makes a real man depends of many factors and among those the one that really defines it is culture. Every country, region, continent have differences whit their definition of masculinity and what might appear manly to others might just be disgusting or feminine to other populations. Leaving aside society the definition of man is something each man haves to look for as unique individuals, a woman will never be able to give that answer, the answer is within each man and it will form according to previos perceptions and experiences. For me to be a man is to stand up for what you believe in, to be able to protect my beloved ones or any one who is in trouble, to be each day a better human being and that's it.
Sorry to say this but you will have more success writing about toxic femininity, I am not saying your take is bad it just that I don't think is possible for any woman to be assertive about the topic you write about. Even though your take isn't that valid I like the focus you did on toxic masculinity.
All fair, I suppose. I think your definition of masculinity is a healthy one.
Perhaps it's not for me to define masculinity, but I'm more concerned with helping create a dialog that encourages men to define their own masculinity in a healthy way and it looks like, at least to some small degree, it's worked :)
This was a really nice take, and I have felt this way for quite a long time. I do have some very typical male interests, but others are not especially masculine at all, and I'm okay with that most of the time. I say this because I do sometimes feel insecure because I have and use the ability to not only use my brain, but have examined my own emotional landscape and as a result am very familiar with my emotional composition, additionally I am a firm believer in communication especially effective communication between both men and women. While it is true that both men and women can be very intuitive and observant of many things, the fact remains that nobody can read your mind, therefore if you want somebody to know something you have to be able to make that known and known in a very clear manner.
I too believe that if we work together on these issues that both men and women will benefit from this.
O boy not another one of these stupid and il-factual rants by a woman about "men's" masculinity
Well all I have to say is if masculinity is toxic then bring on every deathly and sickly drop of it because I love it. FYI I have never hurt others nor been hurt by others with my toxic masculinity or the toxic masculinity of others.
Someone clearly didn't read the take and just made a knee jerk reaction based on a fee assumption of the meaning of the term "toxic masculinity"...
I did read it I'm just saying what I'm thinking, take it however you like, by the way your not even remotely right as to what masculinity is.
Ok then Sport, what IS masculinity? How would you define it?
Of you'd read it you'd know I did not say all masculinity is toxic. Or that masculinity itself is toxic at all.
A woman wrote that wall o' text bullfuck?
Well. No wonder I couldn't be arsed to read it.
in my opinion your masculinity level is normal and healthy, and not over-the-top to the "toxic masculinity" level.
My father and his father, both have toxic masculinity, and I can tell that although they have accomplished things in life, I am more happy and content than they both are. I truly think my dad is envious of how happy I am overall in life, although i'm not in the socioeconomic place I want to be yet.
Very true indeed with most parts. This way of thinking is very toxic. But women needs to be equally as responsible for how a growing man is raised, even in a relationship or marriage. Men are still developing just women are to a certain degree. If women learn to how to cherish and love a man better, I believe it will help encourage men to do better instead of chasing them down to the point he hides in a corner or closet. And that is real fear. Some men really hate women or fear women for manipulation and deceit, wither by seduction just to use him, or trap him with a baby as an example. The most widely used complaint other than sex is his space.
Why don't you turn lesbian and marry a chick problem dolved
If you hate men so much go to a gay bar pick up a lesbian and marry a woman
@retroxyz I am heterosexual, not homo. Where do you even get such an ignorant statement from? If this does not apply to you, then just say so. Some men are the way they are because women are not doing what they are supposed to do, to be a better support for men. What women are doing today are very toxic to a man's growth. That is what I am stating. Get the facts straight.
You know Feminist like to dictate how men should live... if you don't comply then they falsely accuse you for not complying calling you names that is against your character... do as we say or we call you the "M" word
@retroxyz And second of all I DON'T HATE MEN! Learn to properly READ what I wrote! I am speak out from other peoples perspectives, doesn't mean I agree with it.
Most men in America don't got masculinity left... feminism took it all away this toxic some something proves much point. feminism wants to kill the last bit of masculinity tats left. it's almost as if you want us all to turn gay
@retroxyz Well I don't agree with feminism at all. It is toxic and brainwashing. I don't associate with none of these movements. It is WRONG. Women bashing men, Women stepping over men. Women are supposed to SUBMIT to her husband in love and likewise him to her. Women and men have fallen so short from their duties as a family it has corrupted the family values or which were supposed to stand for. In the end, men can't learn to be men, but at the same time both parties needs to be chastise with tough love and the reality of how this effects people. Including their children. Raising and rendering their young. Too cowardly to do it all in the name of "for your happiness". No thank you.
@retroxyz I wouldn't want any man to do such a thing. Its a shame what women do. Just because I am a woman, it doesn't mean I agree what other women do. But I know my place as a woman and do what a woman should. But not to the point I lose my dignity and respect on account of a man either.
Minorities that were once the Manliest of men including the following minorities Latinos blacks Asians Arabs mixed brachialsignals men that were once hyper masculine are having theirs given to them by feminism. and those were once the manliness of men at online stage
Where do you get these ideas from. You aren't a fucking man, so stop acting like you know us for who we really are.
@CrazyAK Where do you come from talking the way you talk? If you are happy with the way you are, then don't change. That won't have anything to do with me. Just because I'm not a man, it doesn't mean I don't understand men. I may not know everything of every man, but that has nothing to do with the the minority of majority.
Overall you have a serious problem for you to come off the way you did. You are 18 years old, still growing and need to know yourself as a young man. But you cannot speak for every man just because you are a male. The majority of males meets exactly what I just said. Stop getting upset and learn something or else you will not grow the way you need to.
Brining in my age is a pathetic counterargument in defence of a statement on how men should be treated. You come across as not as aggressive of a feminist as some of the latter in this post but you still happen to think you understand men for how men see it. When I can instantly conclude that your views are nothing of such. And actually I can speak for every male because I am officially a man. And I happen to be me more intellectual than you may think and thats what gives me the confidence in being so brunt about my argument. You do realise that your pathetic stereotypes about men are that of bigot. The problem is that men have stupid women like you trying to spoon feed us to our deathbeds, for christ sakes I wouldn't be surprised that is responsible for 85 year olds trying to hang themselves. Masculinity is what drives us and if you dont like it then you will never like a man, unless he's a homo.
@CrazyAK If you have been reading my other comments, I am not a feminist. I don't believe in feminism. Get your facts straight and learn to read. I brought on your age because you should already have an idea what it really takes to be a man in general. Yet you come off attacking me verbally. So no, you are in error. This has nothing to do with stereotypes. Get over yourself and stop trying to think you know everything about a man, because you don't. Just like I don't know everything about a woman, just because I am a woman.
You think every guy is going to agree with you? No. There is certain things that is thrown out here through the media and false representations of men is a lie. Men is in charge and head over that woman, woman is head of the child. Period. You think everything what you do as a young male is healthy? You better truly evaluate where you stand. For not every guy is going to stand with you the same way not woman will for me.
You have just as much as a responsibility as women do. Don't have your mind in a regressed mindset because you refuse to learn something. You don't everything about men yourself because you are still DEVELOPING. Argue about it all day and night, you still act like a child. That does NOT make you a man if you can't be responsible for your choices. No woman in her right mind wants to deal with that. You fail because you choose to fail. Nobody can make you fail on purpose if you don't let them in. Guard your heart and mind, for there is toxic behaviors that a lot of you men pick up and its brings out the worse in women, likewise the same with other women doing the same with men. If you have something to say about me, come with the truth and facts. But do NOT group me with other women who lacks respect for men.
My job is to uplift a man and to submit to him if I was to marry in all things. Feminism teaches women to disrespect a man and kill everything about him to feminize him into
... another woman! Tell me that is not the truth. Since you know so much.
And besides a woman has to let the man lead her and the family, not stagnate his growth. If she doesn't like the way how he leads, she doesn't need to be with him. Period. This is disorder. Once again, take that argument to a person who doesn't know. I know. Tell me something I DON'T know.
Find me a man who agrees with you and then maybe ill accept your argument.
@CrazyAK It has nothing to do with arguments. Its about learning and discovering. Each one teaches one. I don't expect you to agree with me. Life will teach you that wither the easy way or the hard way. Not be closed minded and hard headed. I understand what you are saying. But you came off very disrespectful by grouping me with other woman just because I'm a woman.
I had to learn to understand men, at the same time understand myself as a woman. And I am still getting to know and understand men. Not shut them out. There are plenty of men who went through abuse wither its domestic, sexual, child , etc by both men and women. There are consequences to these things. And when I see other women beat down a man because he's not what they want, its wrong. In the end you end up with guys who the MyTake owner has expressed. That is where I agree with her on. But not the outcome these is leading men, because man says so, science says so. That is not the reality. The reality is we have broken men
Men who doesn't need to be fixed by women. They have to want that for themselves. Men don't want to stick around for a heated and emotional debate UNLESS he is naturally that emotional or loves arguments. I tell other women, leave them alone. Give them space to think, calm down, and have peace. Or else he will say and do things he is going to regret, because of lack of self control. As an example.
DO you understand now? This doesn't all the apply to every male. This is one of the basic rule women do NOT or REFUSE to understand. That is not me. As I said before: each one teach one.
Yea, I agree. I really hope when I have a son he realizes he doesn't have to fit this mold to be a "real man" He can be quiet, bookish, a baker, a nanny, a professional wrestler, anything :) I'd love him all the same, and want to always hear his troubles and that I love him.
The problem women think that we have this condition such as toxic masculinity which is utterly pathetic. Why do you think the lioness likes the lion with the biggest mane, its not because of some fucking social stigma. Its innate, its genetic, and its science.
@CrazyAK My boyfriend gets fucked and loved and he's happy, and he doesn't act like some macho testosterone fueled, nut. So? Not everyone wants a guy like that, and not every guy is like that, and not every guy needs to be like that to be happy.
My boyfriend too haha
This is called unconditional love. Or motherly love. A lot of men go through life thinking they can find a woman that will love them the same way - just doesn't happen.
If your man was all the things you said were good and okay for your son you wouldn't want him - you would think he was weak and supplicating. Women look for strong bold men to lead - that's where they're happiest. Look at the admissions of fiercely strong successful business women that run companies - they want to be dominated in bed.
It's biology ladies.
@CrazyAK I like this guy. A young stud that actually gets it.
Will try to figure out how to 'follow'. ;-)
@Browneye57
I love it when guys say "women are like this / want this in a man" and then when we're like "nah, actually, my boyfriend is not like that at all and that's why I love him" they're all "you're lying! Your boyfriend is actually like that otherwise you wouldn't like him".
...
@Browneye57 haha I just can't be asked with these women trying to make diagnosis on us just to seem more powerful
@CrazyAK
Who's making diagnoses? Lol
@Browneye57 My boyfriend dominates me in bed, throws it down, has my walls shaking, haha and afterwards he's a big softie. Can't you just accept that you can't put every person into a box that makes you feel happy?
I agree with this entirely - there is such a thing as overdoing it in the masculinity department - and except for the most butch ones, men are all very sensitive creatures (you can't be intelligent and not be sensitive).
Also likely girls would be a lot more proper women if the popular culture wasn't setting the macho thing as good (though proper emotionally complete macho - hispanic style - is actually both true and attractive).
But for some reason aggression is touted as masculinity too often - where it really isn't/it's more a sign of weakness.
I listen to mostly punk rock / night core at the moment but I do like a bit of T Swift sometimes, I care about my appearance dealing with black heads and solutions for hair loss like fibres or in 5 - 10 years a wig ,
enjoy yoga just with out the meditation/siting still bit but it feels good to stretch , I like to get good photos sometimes and realise it matters for your online presence.
Enjoyed shows like true blood and new girl I general im not the sort to follow shows religiously though.
I don't really like or dislike spinning or circuits after trying them though think I might like crosfit if I feel like i need to work out or someone i know invites me.
Learning to dance seems useful if i ever go to clubs or a wedding or formal event or something and it could be fun? Though its inconvenient to try out ATM and other things are less so, so maybe later?
Scociety taughtbme as a boy that talking about your feelings isn't manly
And im pretty sure thats a major cause of my connection issies and trust issues
Even know if something bad happens to me i just bottle it all up because scociety says i have to be the strong one
Wow
Shit just got deep
Not fun is it? The mental heath issues really concern me, especially because we don't really know how prevalent the issue is... all we know is men kill themselves more often than women.
As a man, growing up I was encouraged to express my emotions. It's not so much that we're conditioned not to, but that for the most part it doesn't come naturally to us. Then, because it's so ingrained in our being, when a guy is in touch with his feelings and expresses them, he's viewed as less of a guy, a pussy, whatever. It's not because of prejudices against men, it's just because he's different than the "normal" (stereotypical?) man. But calling it a societal problem is misleading.
I agree with the closing point though... being secure in who you are is what makes a man a man.
Yeah, like I said in the take, no one's saying men need to talk about their feelings all the time with everyone, just that men shouldn't be shamed for having and expressing them, or be made to feel like they have to bottle things up.
But again, growing up they're (generally) not. With exception to having misogynistic fathers (and father figures). But because we don't develop the aptitude for expressing feelings early on, it's not something we're comfortable doing as adults.
I both agree and disagree. You can't define a "real man", and using that term at all is destructive. It just perpetuates the very thing you're trying to avoid, which is pidgeonholing people.
That being said, I do agree on it being best not pidgeonhole people. There are certain natural tendencies that can't be ignored. But thats no reason to single out people who are different and berate them for it, or try to make them feel inferior.
Would be good if more people were more open minded and accepting of differences of all kinds.
I can only focus on myself and try to accept and not assume, judge or discriminate.
You can have your opinion on masculinity and what that means to you, likes and dislikes. But setting it in universal terms like its the truth is gonna be unfair to someone somwhere and theyre gonna be a saaaaad panda.
What do men know about femininity? Not much really we only know looking on it from the outside. When men try and talk about thing that women go through like they have first hand experience it's called mansplaining. Which it is men don't know what it's like to be a woman. So why would women know anything about being a man or masculinity in general you can only look at it from the outside. The fact is most woman do not know what they are talking about when it comes to this issue.
Could you answer my question.
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2112691-was-i-wrong-to-ask-for-the-money-back
I read this myTake last night, and I think it goes hand in hand with you article (which I think is quite on point):
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a30767-why-gynocentrism-rules-the-world-with-sex-leading-the-way
He discusses how men are conditioned to measure their value based on how successful they are with women, leading men to focus most of their time and resources in an effort to have such success. "Gynocentrism", he defines it as. It's a very interesting and intelligent myTake, I'd recommend reading it.
That is not masculinity. mascutility is respecting a lady... not that bullshit that was written. men who act like that don't exist
TLDR... but you're going by the current FI on what masculinity is, not what men really are.
And you're really not going to fix anything so 'let's start' is simply a laugh.
You talk about masculine traits being 'harmful'. Funny, only a girl would come up with that.
If a man shows weakness to a woman she loses all respect for him, likely to dump him. Women generally want men to be their emotional rock, so all this touchy-feely stuff is just women-talk.
On a quick browse, it's obvious you should really stick to the girl-stuff.
If you can't be bothered to read the content, don't comment on it.
It's the same ol' drivel.
And you're not the boss, sugar. ;)
What is this mystical ability that you have that allows you to surmise what was written without ever reading it?
Honestly, what's the point in commenting if you can't be bothered to read what was written and engage in a dialogue about it? You're only making yourself look silly, sugar.
You've way overrated your importance.
If you'll RE-READ my reply I said 'on a quick browse'. This crap from women is so common it's downright boring. Really, you should stick to the girl stuff.
Aren't you a peach.
Aren't you a pear. Now we're really getting somewhere, eh? LOL
Seriously, your self image is so inflated you can't even see it. It's called solipsism.
You talk a lot about men being more emotional and dependent, more like women. But when men do that women lose respect for them. It's the ladies that are the emotional ones, and they look to their men to be their emotional rock. While you're bouncing off the walls in a hair-brained rant he's just standing there watching you, nodding his head, wondering when it's going to fizzle out a little.
Really, don't keep trying to make boys and men, more like women. This is what FI has been doing for the past decade or two and it's ruining it for everybody. Women and men are NOT THE SAME! Quit expecting them to be so.
Literally nothing in this take was about making men more like women.
ALL of it was about being more emotional, more loving, having more interests, more of being more than just what they are. In other words, you want them to be more like you, more like a woman.
Somewhere along the way you've missed that men are not like women. And no amount of pleading and cajoling are you going to make them so. The weak-minded beta chumps are so disliked by women that you find more than half of men cannot even date - no woman will even look at them. They're in the friend-zone with every woman they know. And they just keep hoping that by being more like what you're saying, by kissing up to them and doing nice things for them, that they will get some sex. It's just not gonna happen. The girls are like, ewwwww.
No, the whole thing was telling men that they CAN have wider interests and be more expensive about their emotional state, etc. Not telling them they have to be.
It's not my fault if you misread the words written. That's on you.
What women really want, and what gets the vag-tingles going, is a man on a mission. A strong tough guy that's pretty much consumed with his mission in life, his career, his ambition. She wants to see that he's going some place, that he will be successful, that he could be a good provider. It's biology honey, she wants the best for her offspring.
Women loathe weak supplicating beta orbiter guys. Guys that are just like what you describe that they should be more of. If a guy races cars and is really into it it's wrong to say he should have other interests. Why? Because that's what he likes and that's what he's good at. That's what he wants to do. He's not gonna take up knitting with you, nor do you want him to.
Women really want a guy that isn't gonna buckle every time you go into a tizzy, everything you're fussy and whining, you're emoting. You want a go-to strong guy that will swim through shark-infested water to get you lemonade, right? (Dr. Laura)
Haha thanks so much for clarifying for me what women want... Obviously I wouldn't have a clue...
This is bloody ridiculous. You've wilfully misread everything I wrote. I specifically wrote, more than once, that there is nothing wrong with having traditionally masculine interests. All I said was that if you are a man and your interests lie outside the realm of traditionally masculine, that doesn't make you less of a man.
Personally, what's far less attractive than a guy who is "beta", are guys who use bullshit pua terms like "alpha" and "beta". Pro tip: if you need to try to convince others that you're alpha, and that your competition are "beta", you're not "alpha" at all. Someone who is secure in their masculinity couldn't care less about such meaningless labels.
Quote: When we talk about toxic masculinity all we are trying to do is expand the definition of what makes a man a man.
Why exactly are you trying to do this? Why does the definition need to be expanded?
This is silly girl-talk.
Expand. Not take away anything men want to define themselves as. Merely expand our societal notion of what makes a man a man, so that men can feel less constricted by what's long been a very narrow definition. If including a wider array of traits and interests into our definition of masculinity puts you on the defensive, that's a pretty good sign that you're not feeling very secure in your own masculinity. Does the idea that men who are different from you can be manly in their own way threaten you? Your sense of value? You should probably work on that.
You see, you're trying to identify a problem - 'contricted'? Men are not constricted by their masculinity. You somehow have decided that they are. No, they are just being men.
Now I grant you, there are some very stupid men, just like there are stupid women. But on a whole, you're trying to make something out of nothing. It's something YOU have decided is important to YOU. Again, I will say you have overrated your importance!
Your point of 'widening an array of interests' does not put me on the defensive, and I have no insecurity about my masculinity, we just see things differently. Oh my gosh, a sixty year old man is going to see differently that a 30 year old woman. You absolutely cannot see things from my perspective - it's impossible. Sure, you can surmise, assume, guess, wonder, all manner of emotional thoughts, but you cannot see it from my perspective.
I'm just not threatened by other men and how they act. I'm really sure about where I'm at in life, I don't need to work on it.
What I find interesting is the stronger guys here, of all ages, are the ones you're getting the push back from. Even some of the gals that really get it see through you're veil of empathy.
Really, just from an age perspective, I have way more experience on the subject than you could possible have. And that's what you just can't wrap your head around.
IRL I imagine we would get along splendidly. You would find I'm a pretty funny and smart old guy. OTOH it's likely you would take offense to everything that could possibly be said to you. You seem to be the argumentative type, not one to acquiesce. Good luck on that with your men - I hope you like cats. :)
You should read this MT over here, someone that actually gets it:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a9318-what-men-want-from-women-relationships
I hate cats actually.
Fortunately my boyfriend does as well.
I love cats. Now that 2 of the 3 dogs have passed (pomeranians) we may get a Maine Coon.
Married for 25 years, second wife, 10 years with the first.
We're just not gonna agree on any of this. B-bye. [thumbs-up]
Great advice!
I did not know white men > 85 have highest suicide rate. that needs further research. I'd be curious if suicide rate for men is high due to military service (e. g. remove military and see if still the same. I wonder because I see so many young females who are a high % suicide risk.