Toxic Masculinity Is Not Real

[WowwGirl]

Toxic Masculinity Is Not Real

I will tell you why Toxic Masculinity is not a real term. Here is a short history below about how the term Toxic Masculinity came about and how the meaning of it got mixed up in time.

Toxic Masculinity Doesn’t Exist

Traits that one person considers toxic, may not be to another person. The entire phrase is based on a subjective scale with absolutely no real ground and is used as a shaming tactic for feminists and anybody else buying into it.

It's A Preference

For example, one person may like the typical “alpha male.” Confident, loud, powerful, buff, etc.

But another person may find those traits unlikeable, and so they’ll brand that male as “toxic” because “toxic masculinity” is a catch-all term for any traits a man has that are considered unlikeable or “overly masculine.”

That’s all it is!!!!!

Any trait that a person or society deems unnecessary, unlikeable or “overly masculine” in a man is Toxic Masculinity.

Men Get Shamed For Being Men

The problem is, by shaming men on a completely subjective scale, you intimidate, which is exactly what most “feminists” want, they want to intimidate men that go against the grain of acting like girls and reject the weak and feminized version of men who have no balls you see portrayed and existing everywhere today.

FYI: Toxic People Are Everywhere

There are toxic people, but to make an entire term for men and to keep cramming it down the throats of men is biased, bigoted and a result of brainwashing.

A toxic person can be defined as somebody that is poisonous to you or society. Toxic people can be any gender, male, female or nonbinary.

How The Term Was Originally Used

It was coined in the Men’s Movement of the 80s and 90s, it was motivated as a reaction to feminism.

Through male only workshops, wilderness retreats, and drumming circles, this movement promoted a masculine spirituality to rescue what it referred to as the “deep masculine” a protective, “warrior” masculinity from "toxic masculinity".

Men’s aggression and frustration was, according to the movement, the result of a society that feminized boys by denying them the necessary rites and rituals to realize their true selves as men and be masculine. "How dare they be men"!

Thank you for reading everyone,

#WowgirlRocks

#WowgirlRocks

[RolandCuthbert]

I read through you take and I still don't know what is toxic masculinity supposed to be. But I will talk about this as being a "Black" man in the "Black" community.

In my community. . . African-American. . . the issue is too many "Black" men have a definition of masculinity that is based upon being unemotional, detached, violent and having sex with a lot of different women. That is destructive. It destroys the community and the environment for children to feel protected and for women to grow in their femininity. Which is why the culture is warping where "Black" women are moving into leadership positions and doing the providing. We desperately need for "Black" men to begin redefining what it means to be a man. That definition has to include being a defender of the community and being a protector of its women/children. It has to include being a provider and leader.

My ex and I split up. And she married a brother who refuses to work. Yet he thinks he is a man. And it is based upon the fact that he can attract a lot of different women.

I get all the hatred of feminists, etc. . . but feminism does not define masculinity. The reason why their argument is effective in the "Black" community is because there is a vacuum. "Black" men have not come together to start a discussion about what it means to be a man. I posted about this before. And some of the same fools here patting you on your back, whined like little puppies when I posted my take. . .

What are masculine traits?

It is like they need to be coddled. But they can't figure out how to define their own masculinity. They need their mother to pet them on their head and tell them they are good little boys. And it is crazy. Women cannot define what it means to be a man. Only men can do that.

What Are Masculine Traits?

[Inbox]

@RolandCuthbert Based on a macro POV, I think Feminists nowadays are just nitpicking, or just trying to find anything they can just to win. In the courtroom, when an opposing counsel does this, usually it's a sign of desperation just to win. In general, I think it is now an extremist movement due to the countless contradictions, hypocritical, etc.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Inbox Well my ex ran me through ringer when we divorced. She took a lot of cash and I suffered a lot. But I wouldn't call her a feminist.

Since then she has had two heart attacks and two strokes. It made me sad because all I wanted to do was provide. Now she is yet another "Black" woman who has to provide for a guy who thinks he is a man because he has a penis.

And this cat has the nerve to be "jealous". WTF?
'
But this whole debate about feminism and masculinity makes nonsense in the "Black" community. Maybe it makes sense in your culture. But we need a new conversation. And we need "Black" men to define their role.

[smølf]

You are confusing masculinity with morals and ethics, these behavior patterns are not about masculinity but about morals standards.

In an imoral world both males and females will have "toxic" behavior, but gender is not the cause.

[RolandCuthbert]

@smølf I keep being told that. Which is what has lead to the confusion with a lot of men here at GaG and in American society. You have made a simple question into an insanely complex one. What makes you a man? Your penis or your actions? Maybe your penis can only define your maleness.

[StunningANDbrave]

It will be interesting to see what kind of rationalization stupid feminists make about this when/if we have to go to war. Things have been good for too long and retarded shit like this is a byproduct of it.

[WowwGirl]

Well one guys trolling me showing screen shots on his questions teaming up with feminist where I called him a pussy in this. Acting like it's not a factual statement.

@Still-alive idnt that right?

[Still-alive]

Nothing factual about it wowgirl, you know you’re full of shit.

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive it's a really a puss move for a man to cuss at a woman.

[Still-alive]

Lol and you get to cuss at me all you want? doesn't work like that anymore

[WowwGirl]

Just because you act like one doesn't mean you are one and doesn't mean it's ok for you to curse at one either. Have some manners please

[Still-alive]

I got plenty of reason to curse at you. Interesting how you’re making it about that instead of what i said. Guess that means you think its true deep down. Your idea of a “pussy” is yours alone.

[WowwGirl]

I didn't swear at you miss

[WowwGirl]

I thought only women had emotional outburst and victim mentality when they pms'ed. Guess you showed me. Idnt dat right?

[Still-alive]

Nahh i just had to put you in your place for your bullshit

[Still-alive]

Pretty sure thats what gets you off huh? A guy who puts you in your place?

[WowwGirl]

Ok I gotta deal for you,,
You tell me what winning Zelda sounds like, and I'll tell you what a vagina feels like.

Deal?
Think about it ✋

[Still-alive]

Lol 😂 ok im done here. Im not partaking in your shit match. I got nothing to prove to you

[WowwGirl]

🙏.. again my hero

[WowwGirl]

@stunningandbrave

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive cool then stop obsessing and leave me alone please. Easy stuff

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive I said go away... This is getting weird.

[WowwGirl]

It's not normal

[StunningANDbrave]

Chill out and block the dude if he's pissing you off. Pretty sure he blocked me already.

[WowwGirl]

Probably you're a guy

[weeee]

"it's a really a puss move for a man to cuss at a woman."

?

[WowwGirl]

@weeee get in line please

[Sarahnah]

@WowwGirl stop trying to force people into gender roles smh...

[StunningANDbrave]

@Sarahnah you don't even know what you're talking about, be quiet.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Anyone can be toxic.

I some people use the term to their advantage, but I think what toxic masculinity is really meant to describe is exactly what @Still-alive is demonstrating.

But, I agree that there is no need to make it toxic masculinity or toxic femaninity. Anyone can be toxic in whatever way they choose to be. That's the downside of free speech.

Just call them an asshole and keep walking.

[Hikymiky4466]

Mind your words.

[Inbox]

@WowwGirl "Ok I gotta deal for you,,
You tell me what winning Zelda sounds like, and I'll tell you what a vagina feels like." LOL!

@Sarahnah Then stop trying to break people out of gender roles - see how that works? SMH

[Shoichiro]

This Still Alive guy is a routine simp. Always backing the feminists and blocking people he disagrees with.

[Inbox]

@Shoichiro Don't you mean he's a... STRONG WOMAN? LOL!!!

[Shoichiro]

@Inbox That's more like it.

[t-8900]

@WowwGirl gender doesn't determine if you're a lady aka woman of class. Sadly too many of your "sisters" have made it abundantly clear they are "proud whores" and "equal to men". This means you now receive the 2020's treatment. Women alone must stand up to feminists right now because men already tried that. didn't work out so well for us.

[TruthBringer]

I love how people are calling out simps like @Still-Alive because that's exactly what they are. Nothing credible can come from a simp incel.

[WowwGirl]

@TruthBringer thank you sir

[Inbox]

@TruthBringer Yeah, he called me a rape apologist just because I didn't agree with the outcome of the Bill Cosby case.

[TruthBringer]

@Inbox A familiar accusation from desperate sex-deprived manginas who think they can get between a pair of legs by pedestalizing women and white knighting for them. Because they have nothing going on for themselves and so feel the need to score points in hopes of getting something. While actual men out there have something of value that attracts women.

In their eyes and the eyes of the snowflakes they are white knighting for, a woman can never ever be at fault.

[Inbox]

@TruthBringer That's what happens when it's someone's civic duty to bend over as an ass kisser! LMFAO

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Sooooo, if I am reading this correctly between this article and your comments, toxic masculinity can't exist, but radical or crazy feminists CAN exist. Would you kindly explain how that paradox works? In the end you are just swapping words for the extremism of any particular topic, whether it be "crazy" feminist, "toxic" male, "radical" conservative, or "violent" protests.

I'm sorry, you can't deny one and accept others. While I congratulate you on researching the first entry on "the history of toxic masculinity" and taking a glance at the wiki article, I would like to take a deeper dive into this with you, if I may.

You are absolutely correct about the time period of when the term originated and that is about it. Where you absolutely lose me is the idea that they were upset about the protector role that men had typically been seen as up until then. It wasn't about feminizing men. It was about taking away the idea that the more extreme ends of "masculinity" were considered ok.

You have to take into account the ever changing flow of what was considered masculine and in what time period they were in. Think about far into our past where it was considered extremely fashionable for men to wear wigs and the color pink was considered popular for boys. Children, including male children, wore dresses as infants and toddlers. It was fine then. Around the late 1800s, a new definition of what adult masculinity was supposed to represent emerged. Before then, a man was considered a real man by being extremely faithful to his god and being a hard worker. Eventually that definition became more of one based around strength and competition with one another. Now today, that idea of masculinity is changing again.

All "toxic" masculinity is referring to is the idea that some of the more extreme traits of what is considered "masculine" like; bullying, sexual harassment and assault, reinforcing the idea of gender roles as being the only way we can move forward as a society, the idea of ruling over their home with an iron fist, and treating women like property is still considered to be ok or expected because that's is just how men have always been. They haven't always been that way at all.

We don't live in a period of time where strength is even considered necessary in most cases. Everything has moved to the digital age and brilliance is emerging as a more preferential trait of men over brute strength. Those who rally against it and those who support it, are relics of an era that is fading and no longer needed.

A man can be strong both in physical attributes, in mind and in soul and none of those make him toxic. Someone being toxic is taking those attributes and using them to tear down others to assert dominance instead of being a moral example of how to be those things without tearing others down. It isn't a sliding scale of preference to determine if it is toxic or not. Those behaviors ARE toxic and the only sliding scale is the one in your mind determining if you are comfortable accepting men who feel the need to tear down others.

[Still-alive]

Boom, bet she's too lazy to read all this though

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive why are you only combative with girls?

[WowwGirl]

And why are you in midlife not disabled and living with your parents in a basement?
You are in no position to judge anyone miss

[WowwGirl]

Just curious because I am disabled and moved out at 19 I can't think of a reason anyone wouldn't be really.

[Still-alive]

Huh? Lol I mostly side with women on here. But you however say a lot of pretty outrageous things quite often.

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive I asked you a question. You don't even deflect well

[Still-alive]

Your question is based on a false premise so i will not address it. Unless you got proof. And no arguing with just you isn't proof

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Actually, she reached out to me directly and we discussed this in my dm's. Her and I are all good.

[Still-alive]

Ok cool.

[TheOracle10]

The problem here is that, you offered an incredibly convoluted explanation for your stupid term. And obviously your convoluted definition is unique, because most women won't give this explanation, its not a given definition and its a made up term, its invalid.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Or... ORRRRRR you can try Google searching to see others who have used that as well.

Gosh so many lazy people here who refuse to do their own research and expect me to do it for them. I mean, I know these are called opinions, but at least do us all a favor and make an informed one.

For someone naming themselves Oracle you'd think you'd have had some sort of divine intervention telling you "hey maybe dont do that because if you call her out she is going to make you look silly."

[anylolone]

Neo-nazis exist.
Same shit as the average feminist, and in my experience, just as violent.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm a feminist and I am not violent... so...

[Still-alive]

equating feminists with neo-nazis? hmmmm

[anylolone]

@Still-alive Yes, I have personal experience with both.
Besides scars, of course.

All that aside, the ideology is similar. Exchange men with jew and a feminist is indistinguishable from a neo-nazi.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone nope

[anylolone]

I've met non-violent nazis.
I met zero feminists that didn't sounded like neo-nazis exchanging men with jews.
I met zero feminists who weren't verifiably violent and not absurdly pussies and paranoid.
Weakness was immaterial. Me and my girlfriend have scars to show even a 100pound feminist woman who expects zero retribution can be absurdly violent while sexually assaulting.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone so now you're saying they are worse than neo nazi's? interesting

[anylolone]

@Still-alive Yes. Stop playing goebbels. It's not working for faucci, it won't work for you.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone wow you are so far up your own ass its incredible lol.

[anylolone]

@Still-alive Not at all. Read again. Like neo-nazis, there's no such a thing as a not verifiably violent one who's not a paranoid coward.

I've seen less fundamentalist christians who say "spare not the road" beat children I baby sat than feminists who weren't violent when they thought no one would do or say anything.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone you're a lost cause. stay ignorant pal

[anylolone]

@Still-alive You mean, "stay on your lane", right?
You have zero authority here, have an argument or face the consequences that the average person, including woman who knows perfectly how violently feminists are with them.

I don't know if you are a weak bully looking for sources of violent by proxy, or the equivalent of my ex, who was a brown neo-nazi and beat my white ass, but it's either one or the other.

Also, feel free to shame me about dating a neo-nazi (I didn't knew she was a neo-nazi when I met her and dated her while she fucked my half passed off ass on the first date.) I shame myself for it every chance I get. Last time I knew, she got a simp suggar daddy that she beats up, and like me, he deserves all the suffering he got from her.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone no it means you are so far gone, that there's no hope in arguing with you. i could literally prove you almost completely wrong about how feminists are equal or worse than neo-nazi's but lets face it you aren't interested in learning anything truthful here. you just wanna preach to everyone about how ignorant you are. and congrats you are succeeding

[anylolone]

@Still-alive No, it means stay in your lane.
And right now, considering the lack of arguments, it also means I struck a nerve.
Well, go get your simone to groom kids for your cowardly ass, besides pushing to lower the age of consent to 9 yo. (she tried to push the age to consent to 13, the nazis didn't care about that, actually, the nazis didn't care about her and her pedo boy toy at all.)

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Wow, a girl can't even take a nap without nonsense being spouted in her own thread.

I call shenanigans on every example you have posted. Every single thing.

You know nothing of feminism, and while I dont doubt that your point of view has heavily been influenced by the neo-nazi views either developed over time or by infection from your hookup, it really has no bearing here.

I and several other feminists on this site are non violent. There also some who won't hesitate to knock you on your ass if you ever had the misfortune of meeting them on the street after posting gibberish like this. I, personally, will avoid physical violence in every way I can. Now, where I can wreck someone's day is in the written form, but I am not going to do that much here because it will just feed your bias or most likely fall on deaf ears.

While these threads are here for opinions, I would ask you refrain from posting your conspiracy theories. You didn't strike a nerve with me or anyone else here. You aren't opening anyone's eyes to the world. You really, in the end, are just making a complete ass of yourself and frankly I am embarrassed for you.

[anylolone]

Sorry, but you can't erase beauvoir's signing a reduction of age of consent to 13.

Call what ever you want bullshit, but that doesn't erase the "beautiful struggles" of your favorite racist feminist philosopher.

Nothing will ever erase what you do with the people you know, and they know the kind of person you are Remember, fear, greedy and pitty can only go so long.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone " Sorry, but you can't erase beauvoir's signing a reduction of age of consent to 13."

who said this. cite your source

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Do you always just assume things about people or only when you think you are making a point?

I actually don't have any idols I look up to, wanna know why? Two reasons.

¹we are all human and fallible. We each have our own set of beliefs or at least should lest you truly become a follower. You can admire someone, but to idolize them is folly.
²there is not just one line of thought I particularly follow when it comes to ideals. I'm more of a centrist who listens to all sides and tries to find value in their words and actions. I can't get that by following one or two people as my idols

I disagree with your final statement as well. Who I am today is NOTHING like who I was growing up as a teen, who I was in my 20s, or who I was in my 30s. The reason for that is that I continued to learn and grow.

If you ever become content in who you are then what is the point? You demand people come to you and force them to abide by your rules. You end up only shutting yourself inside an echo chamber of your own making. I went from an incredibly angry child and teen who lashed out because she wasn't challenged by her education in school to who I currently am. I like the changes I have made and while people may know the things I did then, they recognize that is not the person they deal with today. I am ALWAYS going to be my harshest critic and I will never settle for good enough.

If this is who you have settled on as your own personality then you do have my pity because I believe everyone is capable of more. You can be better than this hateful person you have become.

[anylolone]

"I have no idols", you lost the point on purpose.

Also, have you ever argued with a nazi without demanding it to be banned?
I love doing that. (mostly because they argue better than feminists, since they don't believe they can get away with anything, but they are still easier pickings than real dilemas. Like way easier. Fundies are even tougher, probably the centuries of experience, but also still easy.)

[anylolone]

@Still-alive She did, she signed the shit.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm still waiting for you to make an actual argument that doesn't involve complete generalizations or intentional flammatory rhetoric.

It's like you started with a train of thought, jumped off while it was moving, and landed in a field of incoherent ramblings and hate speech.

Alas, I feel there won't be any improvement from your end either. I do strongly encourage you to further educate yourself on the world beyond nazi history and generalizations.

I am done for the night with you, but sleep well when you finally get there.

[Mishan97]

@anylolone feminism by definition is the belief that males and females deserve equal treatment, opportunities and rights. Neo-nazism, by definition, is an ideology based on white supremacy and racism. Please tell me where the over lap is between the definition of feminism and the definition of neo-nazism? Just because SOME people who identify as feminist have come across as violent towards you does not mean that the definition of feminism itself changes to support something violent. On the other hand, the belief that neo-nazism itself is based on, is inherently violent because it supports the subjugation and oppression of certain groups of people. Please use critical thinking skills before making ridiculous comparisons.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Not gonna lie... I'm kind of grinning happily over here right now after reading your post. Well done. I'm a particular fan of your last sentence.

😊

[anylolone]

@Mishan97 Well, then basically no one that calls themselves feminists is a feminist.
Also, feminist is a weird term for that, considering egualitarism came before it, weird to create another term for it.
Also, weird how early feminists were in heavy clash with egualitarians.

Also, it's not just some. Of course, my personal experience is just my personal experience.
But I have way more than personal experience, I have mainstream feminism as my biggest corpus of evidence.

Mainstream feminism is so violent that mainstream feminism of today violently clashes with mainstream feminism of a few waves ago.

[anylolone]

Well, I used critical thinking, not critical theory, which is a feminist "theory".
And critical theory is very violent.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I don't think you used a passing thought let alone a critical one.

Egalitarianism was an all encompassing ideology of equality across all genders, races, etc while feminism was a focus specifically on women's equality. The principle of this is to narrow the focus so it is easier for people to digest it rather than just a large effort that can't gain as much traction because of opposing ideals. For example, the idea of equal rights of women on the whole may find more support than to also try to include lgbt causes in it. That doesn't mean we can't also support that as well, it just means narrowing the scope is a bit easier.

White supremacist groups are now considered terrorist organizations.

I can't think of a single feminist one meeting that standard. So I really truly doubt that claim of violence being so prevalent other than the one who supposedly did a number on you. Also, I never want to hear another guy say women couldn't beat a guy in a fight if a 100 lb woman was able to do as much damage as you claimed here.

[anylolone]

Repeat with me "specifically women's equality" repeat with me "specifically women's equality".
So, it was about making women equal with each other? Because that's what it would imply if it had any hint of equality in it. Oh no, that was what you call "white supremacist feminism", and I'd call that too.

And that's why feminists have been trying to fuck up with egalitarians for ages and exchange people's value on equality to equity.

You see, the difference is that egalitarians wanted full equality under the law, feminists never wanted that.

I love telling black feminists that black men bought their freedom with their lives, in masses, and they repaid them by kicking them out of the home and raising thugs to terrorize them.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Ohhhh, no wonder nobody likes you if you just say things like that. So many more things make sense now.

Most people don't like to associate with narcissists, racists, misogynists or idiots let alone all of them wrapped into one, but you found a way to do it. For that, I laud your efforts in making yourself complete unbearable.

I sense a long, difficult road ahead of you, but from what I know of you so far, you will blame others for it being so hard on you.

[anylolone]

People hate narcissists, which is why they hate attention seeking, unscoring, pink haired feminists.
They hate misogynists, why is why they hate feminist trans women.
People hate racists, which is why they hate feminist CRT created by a racist feminist black lawyer who couldn't cope with being unable to politically lynch a black judge with a spurious accusation.
People hate idiots, which is why people hate feminists for their stupid notion of equity, which presumes disparity is always just an advent of racism/sexism.

And those are all the preeminent, currently relevant feminists, but I can talk about past ones as well.

People hate narcissist, which is why they hated the cry baby who got pissed that she couldn't sit at the cool kids table at assembly because she wasn't considered relevant enough, while the matriarchs could.
People hate misogynists, which is why they hated the pedo lady that said women are made women, not born.
People hate racists, which is why they hated the genocidal planed parenthood founder.
People hate idiots, which is why they laughed at the suffragette who antagonized a horse and got trampled.

People hate people without arguments, which is why they hate you.

And yeah, retarded feminists hate me, but they hate everybody and that doesn't stop them from trying to get in my pants, including after telling them some uncomfortable truths.
Unless they are lesbians or straight male feminists, then they try to get me to hit on a chick on their stead.
I'd love to say that was just feminists, but somehow people think I have the magical powers to get them laid.

[TheOracle10]

lol shut up woman, your weak ass would get clobbered and so would any other feminist, even against a manlet.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

In a fair fight with no weapons, I'd bet on myself to win. Your type only tries their best to look strong on the internet but offline, not so much.

I'm not trying to follow the other ones ramblings until he makes an actual point and stops trying to be edgy for the sake of feeling better about himself.

[TheOracle10]

You made the claim, and I don't believe you, you'd get absolutely clobbered, not only are you far out of your physical prime, but being a woman really makes you physically vulnerable.

I am not trying to look strong on the internet, I am telling you that you are delusional to think you could beat a man in a fair fight, too many women think this, its rather damaging really, because they can't and they may not find that out until its too late and they pick a fight thinking they're as strong as a man, women like you, who pick fights thinking they're as strong as a man end up in the "Equal rights equal lefts" compilations.

[anylolone]

Woman, you are a 41 IT worker. (I'm gonna say IT, you just say you work in computers)

And by the looks of it, with very little experience when it comes to people hitting you back, much less hitting your first.

And self entitled "emotionally frail", do you have any idea how exploitable that is in a fight?
Besides being literally the definition of emotionally weak?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I couldn't imagine going through life thinking I know everything, but know as little as you do.

Yep, I am in IT, but what does that have to do with a thing? Feel free to go look through my post history as I have talked about this before. My father was very much the gender stereotype kind of person. His belief was that if a woman steps up and hits a guy then she has stepped into a man's world and should be put on her *ss. I have two younger brothers who I got into fights with all the time. Sometimes I would win, sometimes I would lose. I have taken a ton of hits when in fights with them. My brother gave me a slightly permanent limp just by goofing around once. I broke my little brothers orbital socket by fighting once. I have been put on my ass with a forearm to the nose by my brothers. There are a ton of things that happened, but it taught me how to stand up and not be afraid to be in that space if a guy does come at me. I teach our kids the same when our son and daughter fight. If she wants to fight with him, she needs to understand he is going to be stronger so she needs to be more agile and smarter. Don't be where he wants you to be. Most importantly, don't come crying if you do get hurt because you chose to do it. My dad didn't do a lot of things right, but I will give him credit on this one. I am not going to back down in a fight with a guy or a girl and I am going to know how to handle my own. I also have 0 problems fighting dirty if I need to. So please don't try to assess me based on a single photo from last year alone.

[anylolone]

"I fought with my brothers" lol.

A mentality like this is what gave my sister a mental break down the day she failed to choke me to death.

I was a weakling, I was taught by my mother and father not to defend myself.
My sister was allowed to bully an entire school, and me, she taught he was better at fighting than her male peers. Puberty hit and she broke down as she lost in arm wrestling to her male peers, turns out, men had been letting her win the whole time.

And then she lost her mind and attacked me and got confused and startled when I wasn't phased by her aggression when she was literally at her prime.

Also, there's something to do with IT here, it's unusual for a desk job to be followed by a pumped up person, tough more than possible.
But worst than that, you ignored your age, the biggest deal.

We are both well past our primes, lady.
And you are emotionally unstable. (I've took advantage of emotional instability in guys younger, bigger, fitter and more active than you, and any one with a brain will)
And me, like millions of people, don't care about weapons in order to fight back. (I've successfully used improvised weapons to at least defend myself, others already carry weapons, etc...)

Seriously, if it wasn't for your picture, I could believe you, honestly.
I've met plenty chicks from the school of hard knocks, quite a few of them fucked me, lol!
And chicks of the pretense school of hard knocks.
You sound like the latter.

What caught my eye the most was "if they don't have weapons" you should already have a contingency for that. People who mean business usually have those, and those who have and don't mean business are still a major danger.

[WhiteSteve]

Dude in the Hello Kitty outfit😂😂😂💀💀💀

So I can kinda agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I try to walk a line. I’m all about being a man, in the best senses. What I don’t like in a lot of other guys is phony machismo. I feel like a significant amount, if not the majority, of the male population are fraudulent. They put on airs that they’re macho men but it’s all a big show, and the louder they are about it, the more of a show it is, oftentimes. I have a whole list of “pseudo-masculine” activities that I see ALL THE TIME, and more often than not, I’m not buying it, it just seems like a front. Dudes with big pickup trucks or fast sports cars or motorcycles, drinking hard liquor, guns and weaponry, playing poker, getting tattoos, owning some tough dog breed, or that “look at me” asshole out in public with a python over his shoulders lmao. These activities are very common things that I have no problem with in a vacuum, and not everyone who does these things is suspect... I’m just making a personal assessment on an individual basis, and more people fail my test than pass it. I just feel like a lot of people do these things to seem tough or seem like “one of the boys”, and a lot fewer actually ARE those things and these activities or possessions are just indicative of that. Like lots of people just buy and cultivate a facade or image, most aren’t naturally that person. Like Jay-Z said “you can try to change but that’s just the top layer/man, you is who you was ‘fore you got here.” I don’t know how to describe how I know, it’s just kind of a real recognize real situation.

And I’m a little different myself in that I’ll take longer to get ready than my girl, put on a pink t-shirt, drink a fruity drink, hold a Pomeranian, all while jamming out to old emo Paramore, and if any dude wants to question if I’m a man, I’ll answer it by putting him to sleep faster than you can say Hayley Williams. I also might be murdered out with five days’ stubble drinking a Guinness and chillin’ with my cousin’s huge German Shepherd listening to Griselda, I’ll put someone down the same way, but they probably wouldn’t ask the question based on appearances in that instance lmao. But I’m just saying I’m a man regardless, and I know that, so whatever costume I have on or what I’m doing is irrelevant to that. When push comes to shove, everything else is out the window, at that point no one can fake anything anymore and you just see what it is and see which one walks away and which one crawls away.

Anyway, I think there are a lot of things men can improve on, particularly in our treatment of other people. But at the same time, I never want my nuts clipped, being and feeling masculine is important to me. Ladies, miss me with any “man-spreading” complaints until you’ve walked around, and more importantly SAT around, with a dickenballs between your legs, compressed enough to start with by being in pants, haha. But anyway, I think we need to revisit and redefine what masculine behaviors are positive and which ones are negative, and like with any other skill, try to eliminate the negative attributes and just rock it with the positive ones, and perfect the art of being a real man😎👍 Just don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, because I think there’s more good than bad from it all on the whole.

[WowwGirl]

Mr masculinity himself💪

[Not_Average]

Hold a Pomeranian ahahaha I feel that bro

[WhiteSteve]

@Not_Average lmao, your dog rules though

[WowwGirl]

You drinking?

[Lliam]

Really good MyTake, WowwGirl. It had to be said.
Actually, I hadn't really thought much about it before. And maybe that's the problem. It's another one of those phrases that gets tossed around without any thought.

On one hand, what you said is true. It's a way of vilifying an entire gender and making it seem like there's something wrong with masculinity, itself.

On the other hand, though, there are some human behaviors that are negative or harmful and, when displayed by men, can be extra dangerous. I'm thinking of aggressive violence and intimidation, in particular. But is the capacity for violence always a bad thing? What about defensive violence? Think of heroic violence, strength, and courage - the willingness and ability to protect and defend others or to perform great feats to rescue others.

Toxic elements of masculinity are learned. One of those might be the inability to display emotion or tenderness. That trait is a sign of stoicism, inner strength, self control. But it can be harmful to the man and his loved ones if he is cut off from his emotions or lacks the ability to ever reveal them.
Another element would be misogyny, which I would define as bigotry toward the female gender.

True toxic masculinity is when an entire society favors men over women. That has been the case since the beginning of "civilization". Women were considered to be less than men, merely based on size and strength. Women were treated like chattel and considered worthless for anything but bearing and nurturing MEN'S children, and being treated as servants. Similar to slaves, they had no legal rights. They had no ability to survive on their own. That is still true in some cultures. And in modern society, there are still those who think the man should be the leaders, the bosses, the head of the household, etc.

In recent decades, in some societies, women have gained nearly equal rights, at least on paper. But vestigial societal bigotry still remains. In addition, some men resent women's newfound liberty. They see women as competition (adversaries), and they resent the fact that women are no longer dependent on them.
On the other side of the coin, a few women are bitter over historic patriarchy. This has given rise to what could be termed toxic femininity. Those women are misandrists. They aren't satisfied with equality and unity. They want to swing the pendulum to favor women over men.

While thinking about this issue, I am reminded of something else. When I look at women who rise to positions of power, it seems to me that they are the ones who have mastered masculine body language and displays of power - dictatorial, pragmatic (focused on the ends but unconcerned about the means), inflexible, ruthless, competitive. The traits and behaviors of a CEO are masculine, not feminine.
This is just an observation. I'm not even sure what a balance of masculine and feminine leadership traits would look like. It's a subject for a different discussion.

[WowwGirl]

Thanks

[razelove]

You linked together some good ideas, arguments, and facts for your take/argument here. Problem is you didn't link them together very coherently. You're jumping from A to D, and expecting your reader to link the dots.

That's all fine and dandy when someone agrees with you, and bothers to read some of the material you have referenced. When someone is on the fence, or disagrees, it leaves open huge openings for counters.

That being said, I need to post some content to back that statement up myself besides mere criticism lol. All in all I think radical feminists created a divide that made a situation where something like "toxic masculinity" had to appear, or else men would be feminized and belittled to the point of being second class citizens if not slaves.

You still hear women crying about the patriarchy when women leave school (high school, trade, or college) in the west with a higher earning potential than men... It's no wonder so many more men identify as women than women who identify as men. The benefits are enormous.

[WowwGirl]

If I cared what others thought I'd try man😃

[Sarahnah]

What? I thought there were more trans men than trans women around. People suffering from gender identity issues are female like 80% of the time. From my observations at least

[Sarahnah]

Well I just looked it up and apparently there are more trans women than trans men. Weird.

[friendzoned4life]

Exactly toxic masculinity does not exist.

I Myself am a very emotional man.

But the only thing that is giving me control over the emotions is anything that is seen as toxic by self proclaimed feminists

If I want to keep myself from snapping at anyone I go to the gym on a regular basis

Why? Because men are still not allowed to show their emotions in public.

And being a man making a competition out of it is Just adding the fun in to the mix

Offcourse if I am gonna go to the gym I am gonna try to reach my prime physique nowadays you allready get called fatphobic for Just wanting to look your best. Especially by People that Just are looking for an excuse.

But if you ever walked in to a random gym in the world everybody is proud on the fat People in there for trying if they make it or not they at least tried to be healthy.

That is Just one example of how random terms are created.

But in the end boys will be boys and Girls will be Girls.

So the majority of boys will always want to be the best in a random sport.

And the majority of Girls will always want to be the best in building a family

Nothing toxic here Just nature

[Miah02]

Toxic masculinity isn't a man being a man.
It's a man running around pretending to be a tough guy and jumpin down people's throat every chance they get to pretend to be a bad ass.

A real masculine man don't need to put effort in to be masculine.

[WowwGirl]

Some men are actually tough believe it or not🤷 and don't have to act. But I hear you

[Miah02]

Yeah but they don't have to pretend.
You can tell the difference from weak ass clowns pretending to be tough and the real tough men.
The weak ass clowns pretending to be tough are toxic masculinity.
The natural tough men who it just comes out is masculine and sexy not toxic

[WowwGirl]

I think confident men say the least actually

[WowwGirl]

I can tell usually only because I'm the only girl in a all guys gym and fight them as a hobby. And have a Psy degree. A real tough guy has nothing to prove and won't be squeaking like a chicken

[Miah02]

Exactly. Me and you see real masculine men the same.

My ex boyfriend he was masculine.

He never bragged or tried to prove he was.

He was laid back, but gurl. This one time this toxic guy came at me and threatened to beat my ass, because i accidently stepped on his shoes.

It became clear real fast who was a real man and who was a little boy pretending to be a man😂

Most the people that are full of toxic masculinity are very insecure in their masculinity.

So they think if they yap off enough at the mouth people will believe they are masculine.

See that's how i see it, me and you may use different verbage to describe them, but tbh i think that is the only difference between us in this topic and that's fine because I think end of the day we can understand eachother.

But i do understand what your mytake means. There are people who try to use this term to shame men into being less masculine, but not all of us use it that way.

[WowwGirl]

Awesome 😃

[WowwGirl]

Cool hair by the way

[WowwGirl]

Exactly what I meant

[Miah02]

Thank you 🥰

[TwinTonyz]

How does a man appear masculine without presenting masculinity? It's always been my understanding that if you would wait for people to realize you're a certain way, that they never will. You have to project what you are and who you are. Otherwise you're just part of the backdrop. You don't exist.

[Miah02]

@TwinTonyz I'm sorry if it's offensive but if ya gotta ask ya not bout it

[TwinTonyz]

That illustrates the problem though. If you aren't allowed to ask, you have to assume. This is exactly how men are accused of rape.

If a masculine man never asks and just is, he's a threat.
If he does ask, he's not man enough.

Somewhere in the middle, never defined in words, but instead in a sixth sense, is where ideal men have to live. Why would you consider that good, okay, or even expect it?

[Miah02]

@TwinTonyz lmao ya tried it. 😂
Yup you definitely established with this ya ain't bout it

[TwinTonyz]

That's perfectly fine. If being "bout it" means I put my entire livelihood on the line so you can take no responsibility in defining what you want, then you just aren't worth the hassle or risk. No offense.

[ChrisMaster69]

It’s a good take, luckily we do not get that much of this over here.

People tend to be toxic and it’s not a gender or sexuality thing really.

with the masculine thing, it’s often toxic guys just throwing out their own toxic ideals on others.

it’s like there is an invisible 10 commandments that defines a masculine guy, if you can’t meet them you’re not a guy.

Some stuff I do likely ticks the masculine bits some stuff does not, I really don’t give a fuck.

I know myself if needed I can have stepped up to be counted and put my ass on the line.

With anything, masculinity, femininity, sexuality, if you head out towards the extremes, you pick up the toxic views that then become synonymous with the overall word.

[Phoenix98]

Of course there's no such thing as toxic masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is just a phrase some hurt women came up with in a moment of frustration and anger. Probably blaming masculinity for the reason she got hurt rather then the actual problem.

Toxic femininity is no different, same thing.

Like you said toxic people are everywhere.

[WowwGirl]

Yup.

[tupacs_only_wife]

If its not real then explain why most men are treated like trash if they express themselves. Explain why men are called "Beta" if they try to get assistance and why they are told to become "Alpha" males. Heck... Have you seen videos on how to become an "alpha" male. Literally all of the advice every one gives on becoming an alpha male contributes to depression and sometimes suicide not only amongst young boys but men as well. This is the reason most men distance themselves thinking it will make them the most wanted but the reality is that TOXIC MASCULINITY EXISTS AND ITS SLOWLY KILLING MEN FROM THE INSIDE!!!

[AdithyaR]

Toxic masculinity is a thing but it's not what most people equate it to.
There's nothing wrong with being traditionally masculine, as long as you do it because you want to. By all means, go to gym and have big muscles, drink only beer, go fishing, do whatever you want. The point is that you shouldn't be shamed for doing things you like. And that includes, wearing dresses or wearing make up too.

Toxic masculinity is when men are forced to conform to a certain idea of what a man is and is shamed if he isn't.
Doing things like shaming a guy for crying is toxic masculinity. Insulting kpop artists cause they look effeminate is toxic masculinity. Feelings offended cause a gay guy asked you out, instead of just telling him you're not gay, is toxic masculinity.

[Guy13]

Toxic masculinity is a creation that was spawning form the Peace era with Self-indulgence beginning. The humanistic and here and now Self has flourished today as Selfies make this quite clear. Men left the Family from Peace 60s to Present in pursuit of their Self lusts rather than maintaining the Family structure. What did you susect to happen when a single Mom has to raise a Family. What does one expect the boys to do and become other than Feminized. It is the man's fault and nothing is changing with the Baby Momma and single Moms everywhere.

Men had it the way it should be BUT could not deal with success nor continue in the Model and Design to maintain success. It is on the men !!!

[sagevalentineee]

I'm not too sure I can agree... masculinity can be toxic in some ways. I would hate for a man to feel like he can't be vulnerable or share his real emotions with a women because of his masculinity. Being strong doesn't necessarily mean being a brick wall, I've always found men with the most emotional clarity and maturity to be the strongest.

Perhaps you're right in the sense that a very sort of powerful, like you say 'alpha male' confident man can be mistaken as 'toxic' is bad. If the way he is offends random people then there's something wrong with those people

[weeee]

Toxic masculinity is real. And no, toxic masculinity doesn't mean undesirable masculine traits. Toxic masculinity is the forcing of supposedly masculine traits on men and expecting every single one of them to live up to it.

"dont cry, you're a man"
"you need to have physical strength, you're a man"
"you're supposed to like sports, you're a man"
And more stupid shit like that.

Many men dont want to live up to these expectations. And when they dont, they instantly get made fun of, their "masculinity" is questioned etc. This has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. Toxic masculinity has always existed. It puts men into strictly defined boxes and punishes them for expressing themselves as they truly feel on the inside.

Essentially, creating a *toxic* environment for men, which arises through societal notions of *masculinity*

Hence the term.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

Having expectations isn't inherently evil.

[topramen1565]

@UncleJessieRabbit that is true but some expectations are so radical, ridiculous, and unreasonable that it isn't fair.

[weeee]

@UncleJessieRabbit obviously not. But the failure to live up to them is always met with ridiculing

[AndrewMG]

Well if people attach labels and attach stereotypes to people then it allows people to create a situation where terms such as "Toxic masculinity" become relevant and in some case's rightfully so.
What I don't understand is this crazy need for labels and not realising most people are individuals and celebrating that fact and the fact different people are attracted to different personalities.
I mean I've travelled 1000 of miles over the Atlantic to watch a boxing match but worked a way from a pub fight as I don't like unorganised violence
I've travelled the world watching my football team but refused to watch the national team as I don't want to be affiliated with a minority of there supporters.
Essentially what I'm saying is a person can only be themself and react the way they are, by encouraging labels then a person encourages bad behaviour.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Isn't that the same tho as when people call men simps or beta because they don't fall into what people consider "manly"🤔
How about people just stop labeling, judging, trying to shame other people period🤷

[WowwGirl]

I agree

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Really? Cuz no offense meant, but don't you do that on here? Call men unmanly if they cry or drink fruity drinks, etc... I personally don't think it's a person's or a females place to decide for a man what makes him a man... We're all different and have a right to be ourselves... If there's people we don't mesh with, that just means they wouldn't make a good friend or a good partner.. doesn't mean we should act like we're better than them, just different🤷

[Still-alive]

she referred to men as "pussies' on my answer and refuses to say what that means. its this illusory or nebulous word designed to shame men for what exactly? not conforming to what she wants i guess?

[WowwGirl]

@Brainsbeforebeauty I agree with anyone can be toxic

[WowwGirl]

And that it's okay to be different but don't condemn those who are like masculine men or the lgb

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive I defined it and you left☺️ you gave a good aid to my point though thank you.

[Still-alive]

As long as they dont call men who aren’t masculine “pussies” then we good. 😎

[Still-alive]

@WowwGirl

Yeah its still a vague nebulous concept, your definition only proves how toxic YOU personally are to guys you deem unworthy. Thats all your definition did

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

But then don't condemn those feel aren't masculine according to your definition either is all I'm saying... Can't call people out for shaming masculine men yet shame men you feel aren't masculine.. Why shame any men other then the rapists, abusers, or deadbeat dads... Just cuz there's some men that try to shame all women, two wrongs never make right

[WowwGirl]

Usually when people say no offense it's because they know their offensive. I just stated my opinion sorry if you disagree

[WowwGirl]

@Still-alive puss is a puss is a puss
I will

[Still-alive]

i men i could totally use such demeaning language towards you but i got more restraint than you i guess.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@WowwGirl no that's not ALWAYS true.. how is respectfully disagreeing with someone offensive. I just know you acted like I was attacking you or had an issue once before because I disagreed with you.. You say it's okay to be different, yet you are calling men pussies. You're doing the same thing though then that you're saying feminists do to masculine men. Again, you're calling out behavior you're exhibiting to men "you" consider weak. I do agree though that both men and women can be toxic

[WowwGirl]

I have a pussy not just act like one.

[WowwGirl]

Again spade is a spade puss is a puss. Thanks for your comment

[WowwGirl]

Calm your tits it's ok 😊

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Oh I'm calm..🤣🤣

[WowwGirl]

Wanna talk about psychology more?

[WowwGirl]

🤷..

[_piotr]

I agree, WowwGirl should not hate and shame men for not conforming to her standards of manliness.

[grega239]

No. Men do that to each other all the time. We did it all the time when we were teenagers. Simp and beta were the least insulting things we called each other.

[anylolone]

Simping is not only for men, neither is beta.
Beta is a retarded concept, but ain't sexed.

Hassan picker has a lot of simp chicks, lol!
Every big boyband/idol glorified slut as well.

And it doesn't have to be sexual, Beyonce has plenty of female and gay male simps.

You know those chicks who are feminist single, and what ever their dick are when they get a new Dick? Simps.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone what are you on about? just saying gibberish? gotcha

[anylolone]

@Still-alive It comes from latin. I thought you were smarter from that.
Pusillanimous, it means "like a cat", IE, cowardly.
Different reason why women are called pussies, which is more tied to their most common seduction method that reminds of a cat trying to rub their scent unto their property.

[Still-alive]

@anylolone anytime you wanna cite something relevant here. otherwise you're just talking more giberish

[WowwGirl]

@grega239 Thank you

[MudRucker]

What you described was diverse man can be and how one man can be perceived differently by others.


For all those who claim diversity is a good thing (and it is), try accepting ALL people. Not just those who think and buy into the same politics as you.

[WowwGirl]

I think bring different is good but don't shame those who are. Same with LGB don't shame someone because they are different not like you

[123lucy]

Of course toxic masculinity is a real thing. You don't seem to know what it even is though.

[WowwGirl]

Because it's not real

[anylolone]

What's your toxic feminity? I think it's the same of Ghislaine Maxwell.

[JayParris]

You hit the nail on the head this time for sure. Masculinity isn't toxic and toxic traits aren't masculinen but by combining the two, they've created a false semantic connection that serves to label any masculine behavior as harmful.

[WowwGirl]

Yes exactly

[JosyJosy]

For me toxicity doesn't have a gender, people are just being an asshole/bitch and that's about it

[WowwGirl]

I agree

[genericname85]

Exactly that's the problem with our modern sjw PC bullshit society. Making individual problems everyone's Problem.

[WowwGirl]

What s jw?

[genericname85]

social justice warriors. you know those karens that see racism and sexism and patriarchy in everything and everyone all the time.

[genericname85]

professional "offense on behalf of others takers", if that makes any sese grammatically xD

[WowwGirl]

Not really man 😂

[WowwGirl]

I wanted to understand

[genericname85]

well just think of social justice wariors as political correctness extremists, that label every male behavior as "bad" or "toxic", that make any arbitrary fraction of societies misfortune the fault of everyone else amd that wanna force their half knowledge based views on everyone else, telling everyone else how to live their life while not accepting any correction or critique themself.

in my estimation, it's those people that come up with that "toxic masculinity" bullshit among many other things.