Do some guys really give up on all relationships with women? Girls, what do you think of these guys?

Question

I've noticed a few different arguments about this online because of different 'movements' (or whichever word you want to use) like Red Pill and MGTOW. Also, increasingly I've heard about the influence of porn in modern relationships and how some men prefer it. Plus this site features plenty of rants about women, divorce laws, feminism etc.

Here's an example of one of these discussions about guys giving up:
 

What do you think about the guys who give up on women? Do they have a point?

Girls, do you care about these guys? What would you say to someone thinking about giving up?

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

I'm 17 and still have never been with a girlfriend, I often see myself as ugly becuse i´ve seen a lot of girls who have been avoiding me or saying that i´m ugly even tho I don't know them. My personality sucks becuse i can´t make girls laugh and even tho i have a lot of things that i burn for in my life like photography, basketball, swimming, learning new languages, math, music of all kinds, anime, fitness, playing on my guitar, technical stuff like understanding how to fix a engine or how to create something new that no one else has thoght of doing, reading books, visiting new places, animals preferably dogs, cooking food, As it looks now i think life is a hell for me i have a depression to so it doesn´t help either. I often end up thinking that the meaning:Be you´re self isn´t true if you are a ugly guy with no sence of humor. I find relationships to be exaushting becuse it is almost like using up all your energy on something that you know won´t work, My best isn´t enough i feel, Everytime i meet a girl one the internet i get the impression that she isn´t trying to get to know me as much as i do try to know her and it makes me frustrated when i start talking about my interrests and she just replies with an:okay when she could have insteald said:Basketball is one of my favorite sports or:really you like Rihanna? she is my idol i adore her voice and i could die in order to meet her. It has made me think that if you were born with a bad personality and face then you can´t improve any of those things becuse thats what god gave you so you have to keep smiling even tho there is not reason to do so. If i see a couple i try to avoid them and if the girl wants to talk with me i end up saying that i don´t have time or that i´m not going to waste my time on you becuse you are taken and i rather avoid geting my feelings hurt. I honestly don´t want to give up on dating but at the same time i need to understand why girls never seem interrested in me or want anything to do with me. It would just release a huge weight of my shoulders if i was able to get some answers from someone over here so that i know how i can success.

evenlift · Accepted Answer

Marriage is certainly not worth it. As for whether one should give up on women altogether, I think that is much more complicated, and different contexts would yield different recommendations. However, things are definitely getting worse, not better. And, of one other thing, I am sure: any woman who denies that there is a serious problem is not worth it. Could you imagine how a woman would respond, if a man were legally allowed to ruin her life simply based on his own whim? It is to the shame of so many men that they put up with this ridiculous situation. Misandry is somewhat explicable in that sense. If so many men are so pathetic, perhaps they deserve to be hated.

GoldenHeart91 · Accepted Answer

I didn't read the attachment to this question sorry. But from my. Perspective i totally get why anyone would want to cut off r/ships completely. My reasons: i know i worked on myself over the years to be a better person, to be the person i would want to be with as i saw it unfair to want what i dont hold within myself as well. I believe in when i choose a person i dont like things forced. I treat them really well, give them respect trust communication honesty and affection. I am a hopeless romantic. I adore the person and i really listen and understand them. I could go on bout it. I believe in a r/ship you bare your soul and you love unconditionally. Only had 2 relationships in my life i take that commitment seriously.

Thougn i get many suitors wanting me or wanting to be with me i am so turned off by r/ships in these modern days. Why?

Because people these days don't love someone unconditionally, they are selfish and self absorbed into what they are getting out of the relationship, some are very insecure and have serious issues i can't resolve, they are superficial into their image they put on. They are totally more into the sexual aspect of a r/ship than the other aspects such as truly communicating and opening up. People lie, and cheating has become a norm it seems.

When most guys in a r/ship try to flirt with me, even ask me out or try to force their presence in my life makes me question can i trust men in this age.

People dont appreciate anything and discredit it to get what they want and justfy ending something or cheating. The thing is there so much more to my answer
But basically i dont see dating people worth it anymore. I like the r/ship of friendship more something platonic and they bring more value to my life.

Meow-Girl · Accepted Answer

I personally knew a very close guy friend of mine while we were on college together. I remember during our first year of study, he was so enthusiastic to meet so many girls and really wanted a relationship and he really worked at it, but all the girls he asked rejected him and just wanted to be friends. Over the years I've seen his enthusiasm and interest in girls drop, which is natural i guess, but he still remained positive on dating someone. Fast forward about 12 years later and he has found comfort in his career and actually prefers the demanding work life that he has, he is very successful and gets to travel a lot. In the end i think his sex drive has been suppressed somehow and no longer actively pursues women as such. I wouldn't say he has given up on women, it sort of takes a back seat and is no longer a primary drive. I've seen it with a lot of guys (i'm in the medical field), so i just tend to support them and many of those guys and really genuinely great good guys.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

They may have a point, they may not. But ultimately the fact that they are having heated arguments and ranting all over the Internet about it shows that they are unhappy which I find to be very sad. I know we women can be frustrating but men aren't always the perfect picture of gentlemen either. Relationships are like everything else in this world: they don't come easy. And unless you are willing to work at it, put aside your differences, and reach a happy median, it's just not gonna work. If you are truly just completely done, don't force yourself, but don't shortchange yourself by giving up too soon either ya know?

Takada · Accepted Answer

I can understand it, as I'm content being single and genuinely have no desire to be with someone.

What I don't understand is men who say they give up on women, when they are clearly desperate for sex. Those men have some underlying reason. Like they've been rejected one too many times, or they're too scared to approach women, or they go for women who are way out of their league and then got rejected. They often hate on women too, showing that they're bitter and not happy being alone. Those kinds of guys are just pathetic, in my opinion.

But if they're genuinely happy being single, then I do support them.

Mesonfielde · Answer

I think it's just a phase. And I sure hope it's just a phase. It'd be so much easier if they raised their heads from the mud and actually didn't think of females as "women", according to the stereotypes. Just see people as people! Not see them as "a member of their sex"!
Is it that difficult?

BelfastBoy · Answer

MGTOW and MRA's are constantly berated and hated on for defending their human rights. MGTOW do not universally 'give up on women' they have given up on marriage primarily because the divorce and parental rights laws are worse than a joke now. The UK currently even has a cohabitation rights bill going through royal assent (which WILL become law this year) which makes living together the same as marriage. If you look at sites like AVFM they actually promote healthy relationships however feminism is nothing but a victim industry and most women don't realize that. They do nothing other than hurt real victims by lying about rape statistics and domestic violence. Imagine for a second how you'd feel if you were a woman 50 years on with no contraceptive pill, despite their being a whole slew of them developed or how you'd feel if every and any guy you slept with could MAKE you have children then pay for them, THEN take them away from you and have another woman raise them (I've known men who comitted suicide over things like this here in my own town). Men who stand up despite hatred have courage, these are the strong men we need, not the white knights and cowards who just tell women whatever they want to hear because they're hoping to get laid. All that said I'd never tell a woman or group of women any of this because frankly they tend to just hate on you for it - which is disappointing. They usually come out with things like: 'you're scared of my success', 'who hurt you', 'you hate women', 'you're a loser' or my personal favourite 'not all women are like that'(which is pointless because all divorce and family courts ARE like that). It's incredibly sad that things are like this now - personally I try not to think about it because I know the marriage laws WAY better than most. To take it to a political and social level it's about corporate and government control. Because women are as smart as men and now have the industrialized machinery to do the same jobs companies have twice as many people to hire, which of course is why they can now pay half as much as they used to. Governments also have twice as many people to tax and divorce courts in america alone make 51 billion a year from people's misery. The only ones who lose by swallowing feminist lies are us.

OpenClose · Answer

This is actually a bigger deal in Japan, where it has become so big that the nation declared a state of emergency due to projected population reduction. So I think if we want to tackle this issue, we might gain some insights as to what is going on over there. These are the most notable ones related to relationships:

- Ultra-high standards for men
- Highly-sexualized media
- Low actual sex rates
- Ultra-high stress
- Fairly passive standards for women. (That is, the women are pushed to play passive roles).

There are a lot of these that are fairly similar to the US. We have rather low sex rates, we are high-stress, and we still play traditional roles when it comes to dating.

Now, I actually went through a phase of MGTOW during college. To me, it seemed like the whole of the dating world was based around women intrinsically deserving attention, and men being undesirable and unworthy until proven "man enough." The worst part was the environment of sexual paranoia. A man is supposed to show his interest to be a "real man", yet it is also "oppressive" to do so. And when a man can have his name slandered on mere rumors, it didn't seem worth the risk by any means. Girls could say I wasn't "man enough", but I say they have no place to judge if they are expecting me to make the move.

So I guess in my experience, it has been the combination of girls playing passive roles (acting almost entitled to male attention and "chivalry"), and the sexual paranoia, that meant a guy had to essentially choose between being single or risking a ruined career at the hands of rumors.

That actually started to change when girls started approaching ME. It felt SO MUCH less one-sided that taking bold moves just came more naturally.

Roostah · Answer

There could be a number of reason, which all boil down to the cost outweighing the benefitis.

1. Thanks to social media many women get enough attention/compliments and aren't as receptive to men advances in real life.
2. Thanks to new online apps such as tinder and other dating devices. Many women can fuck the top 20% of males more easily.
3. Thanks to feminism and the "women can have it all attitude". Many young women today turn their noses to men who are of equal attractiveness, social status to them and go after men who are above them.
4. False rape claims.
5. Flaking, and stupid games girl play on guys.
6. High percentage divorce and fact that 70% of them are imitated by women, which leaves the man financial ruined.
7. Financial and emotional drain on a man when they are acutally being in a relationship.
8. Constant rejection and being mistreated by women.
9. Princess complex attitude women give off.
10. Rampant cheating today in an amoral society.

Any of these reasons could be a reason for a man to check out from pursuing the opposite gender.

Theguyoverthere · Answer

I do think a lot of it is taken too far to the point where they can sometimes just as bad as women who do the same thing. But at the same time I do feel men are much less spiteful about it where I notice a woman would go way out of her way to ruin a guy's life while a guy would just have his bitterness but still keep to himself.

One thing worth noting though is that while a lot of people can say "keep trying" there is one issue for a good amount of those types of people and that is the fact that many of them have so much baggage they can't get rid of from a previous marriage and such and it can make a guy undateable. It's easy to just label them all "bitter virgins" but many of them actually come out of painful marriages where there is so much the woman is doing to destroy the man's life to the point where another woman dating him would be too much of a hassle. Many of these guys have ex-wives who are spiting them through the courts, harassment, fake abuse/harassment claims, and so on. If you came out of a marriage and had alimony/child support debt piling up, were fighting for visitation rights, and were at risk for being thrown in jail for false abuse claims would you really feel you had hope in finding another S/O? It would be pretty tough.

A lot of the people out there might not see what I mean, but it's because they haven't seen what some men go through in their 30's and up where people are living on their own and such.

Kiran04 · Answer

I'd never give up on women outright because I like women. Not just for sex, women make great companions. Just play safe and follow the rules.

1) Always use protection. Child support is the last thing you need on your plate. Never trust her word for it on birth control.
2) NEVER marry a western woman. They're coddled and spoiled, and will hook you for half your net worth when they leave you. Divorce laws are very gynocentric.
3) Avoid any woman who talks about "the one" or is waiting for her "soulmate". These things do not exist. All they say about this woman is that she expects her lover to do all the work in the relationship and care for her while offering nothing in return, and that she has no sense of realism and no interest in trying to make a relationship work. She just wants it handed to her.
4) Don't have kids with any woman you don't trust utterly and completely. If there's even a hint that she might bail when the going gets tough, you're screwed for 18 years while she runs off with your kids on your dime. Divorce and child support will ruin you and the law will help that happen. The American dream is a sucker's game. Don't be a sucker.

WorthlessVirgin · Answer

Not having a real sex life is the same as being dead. Girls never liked me. I was considered too dumb, too weak and too ugly to even talk to them. None of these were true, but believing in myself doesn't matter to girls. I felt that it was other guys that were brainwashing girls into believing lies that I am unworthy. But girls agreed with them anyway. So, I replaced my sexual desires with video games. I've watched porn, but it's incredibly boring to me. I stopped watching porn and quit masturbating. I play League of Legends when I got free time. I am a Master Yi Main. My Season 2014 ranked rating was Diamond II 100 LP which is the top 0.12% out of 1,400,000 ranked players. Have I played against the pros? Yes, I have, sir. I imagine it's nowhere near as incredible as having sex, but at least I get to play with the most intelligent people on this planet. It seems pathetic to every other human on this planet, but this is all I got. It sucks but it keeps me going through life. Oh right, I also read books on the true history of humanity. I never gave up on girls. I was never given a chance by them. What I've always found extremely funny was that people in poverty have copious amounts of highly pleasurable sex.

awesomeness92 · Answer

I say it depends on what their experience they have had with woman. for example my experience with woman have not been great. I have been taken for granted, been taken advantaged of been abused and used.

Just a back story, my ex That i ended things with because i wasn't being treated right. she put me down in front of my friends, compared me to one of her guy friends and swore at me when she could get her way or i must try harder in the relationship.

Another example my ex. It was valentines day and i took her to her favorite resturant, first thing she sais i knew you were gana take me here. before i took her i went to the resturant for some preperation to do certain things. for example in her drink they must put her drink in a cup that i bought her that sais i am crazy about you, with a rose, heart of chocolates and a teddy bear that sais i love you on the plate of her drink.

when she ordered her food which was a pasta i asked them to put the rose peddles on the plate and the plate that the pasta was in must be on sitting on the rose peddles. we went she got all that stuff, the waiter told me not to tip him because of what i had done for her. my ex did say thank you but also said that the expectations have risen.

And she would guilt trip me when ever i went to visit my friends after i visited her saying my friends are more important than her, knowing that wasn't true. she purpisly picked fights with me. then when i had enough of her behavior I left her ( I did give her many chances after i spoke to her about her behavior) even when i ended things it was still all about her. she said that I "gave up" on the relationship

came back months later to apologize for hurting her, next thing she posted shit about me on twitter. I decided after that relationship i would rather be single than be in that kind of relationship again.

I don't believe all woman are like that. I just haven't come across one who is genuine.

Transigence · Answer

Red Pill knowledge is just seeing past the gynocentric bias of society, but doesn't speak toward that person's personality or to the entirety of their value system.

MGTOW, in its proper form, simply means not putting yourself in a position where you don't have control over your own live. That pretty much means not getting married and not joining the military. It doesn't mean you don't like women and will never date, or even have a long-term or even lifetime relationship. It just means you're not going to sign a contract with the state saying that your wife can destroy your life at a whim, which is essentially what the government notion of a marriage is.

So, as for the guys who give up on women altogether -- whatever floats their armada I guess. I wouldn't want to do it. But I do call myself MGTOW because I will never, EVER, sign a marriage contract (in this society), nor will I allow the state to declare me married by common law.

There are a lot of MGTOW who have inserted their own assumptions into the philosophy, when in reality it's a lot more barebones than that.

If women want to get married, they need to advocate for family law reform like they mean it.

MGTOW are comprised of men who have or have seen other men have their children removed, their property appropriated, their wages appropriated (under threat of jail) over a false accusation of violence or molestation (the "silver bullet" in family law).

Anonymous · Answer

Well, they're entitled to their own opinion and are free to live life as they see fit. If they're set on that course, there's little I can say, and little I'd want to say to be honest, unless I'm asked for advice/input. It's their choice, and I assume they know what's best for their life. I know women who swear off men as well (my best friend being one of them), on a hiatus, or permanently, for various reasons. Sometimes it's necessary. I don't put anyone down for it, or try to get them to do something they don't want to do. They have their reasons; I leave them to it.

If I had a guy or girl friend who was going through this, unsure and wanted to talk, that's different and I'm always there for my friends, but other than that I can't say I'm involved or invested in what's going on at large.

Do I think there's something awfully wrong with women or men on the whole that would justify the other sex collectively giving up on them? No, not really. And that's not what I see happening. There does seem to be a higher concentration of these people who are giving up online, and especially if you go to sites where that's a major topic, but that's to be expected (it's like going on Jezebel and being shocked at all the radical feminists). I notice that in real life, for the most part I see dating and relationships going on around me as per usual.

In any case, this question if among the few times I'm giving it thought. I'm happy in my relationship, swamped with work, and just trying to get through life myself.

Anonymous · Answer

It's really a personal decision. There's no right or wrong about it. Giving up on something is fine if you discover you don't truly want it or that the labour necessary to get it isn't proportional to the reward. Everyone is different. For one person, getting to the top of Mt Everest could be their life's goal and they are willing to do whatever it takes, paying thousands of dollars and enduring years of training, to reach it. Meanwhile another person wouldn't even pay $10 for that same experience. It just depends.

People in relationships will always be highly critical of those who give up on them. Relationships, like marriage itself, is something you're not really allowed to criticize. It's what some call the "cult of marriage". Married people pay a huge price for their status and often won't accept the idea that anyone could be happy alone, because it calls into question their own life choices and the things they've given up.

Girls wouldn't care less about a handful of guys dropping out of the game. They'd only care if the effect was noticeable in everyday life and it would have to reach epic proportions for that to happen.

Profiler · Answer

Men in their 30's and older, men that have gone through divorce and the judicial and legal system, men that have lost their children, spouse, home, friends, money, there are many of us out here.

Call it MGTOW, call it Red Pill, call it by any name but the meaning is universally the same. Men stop chasing, spending hard earned money and emotional energy on women.

Men profile, that's not a bad word even though our society wants it to be. Profiling is the gathering of information. It's used all the time for medical research and treatment. Military and Law Enforcement agencies use it as a great tool.

When enough men see that it is mostly men that suffer the loss of children, home, finances, friends, etc., when the statistical evidence shows that approximately 70% of all divorces are filed by women due to "I'll reconcilable differences", men look at it logically first followed by emotional second. Logic says that the numbers show a trend based on factual information provided. Emotions says to take that information and do something with it. In this example, the correct gut response is to not let this happen to you, the guy.

Makes sense. Substitute guy and gal with anything else and logically it works. It's when you put people into the equation that creates the mud slinging.

Shadowpanda · Answer

Yes this is a growing tendency in the West (I'm Danish). It still hasn't hit Scandinavia full force yet, but all the signs are there that it's coming: both sexes growing ever more exasperated with the lack of dating succes, men especially, as well as the destruction of the nuclear family and the lack of traditional benefits for both sexes in the modern relationship.

Look. Women are the reproduction gatekeepers, so women naturally get more attention, since the dynamic is that men fight for reproductive rights. It has just gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of control because of social media and dating apps with the non-stop attention; 5/10 women now exclusively date 9-10/10 guys and find no luck in the process. Gee I wonder why?

Furthermore feminism has turned women into guys, and uncharming 50's guys at that; belching in public and talking about a 3-way from last weekend on our first date. But still you insist on chivalry and lament that there are 'no good guys out there anymore'. Have you looked at yourselves for a minute?
Honestly we men don't really know who you are anymore.

I've gone MGTOW, and no I'm not a fat unemployed gamer in my parents basment, I'm a tall onchologist and rock musician with a sixpack and I know a lot of males in roughly the same position, that are starting to feel like swallowing a red pill and turning their back on women forever.

Something has to change. In Denmark birth rates have dropped to 1.6 per couple = eventual extinction.

Minnieinthemiddle · Answer

I think yes they do have a point, after seeing the way the majority of the women treat the men, its their own fault if a man decides to avoid women.

Really, I don't see it as being problematic just like anything else its a personal decision. I owuld try to talk a guy out of it, but I'd understand if he choose not too. Women can be and often are very difficult and annoying to deal with.

9mfeo · Answer

If you want to give up on dating, that's your prerogative. I just don't agree with using your shitty past as an excuse to be a shitty person. Everyone has had to deal with shit in their life. It's not an excuse to be an all around dick (like most of the guys I've encountered who buy into that shit).

Sway66km · Answer

From my experience I am going on ten years being single. Not just being single but not dating, pursuing relationships and even sex itself.

All I see a spiral. It's literally drained me of my desires for these intimate and romantic needs. I literally laugh at the thought of me being in it.

IIt all started in my teens when I kept getting played with only to find out she was interested in another guy and not me. I have also been lied to and been disrespected by many.

Then my last two relationships we're hell. I noticed I was losing my say and my girlfriends stopped giving a shit about me and what I had to say. They also started becoming more demanding. Not to mention I didn't find out my first girlfriend cheated on me after 15 years. My last attempt at my last crush was the last straw. Never again will I get close to a woman. I'll still be respectful and kind as well as help need be. But short and to the point.

No rrespect to the ladies. But I wish you luck and very happy fulfilling lives. All of you won't know I am or will be.

Anonymous · Answer

tbh, my experiences with men have been just as bad as women, Bear with me here.

With women I tend to find that even if you're just being friendly they think you're interested in them when that's not the case. One girl at work. I was asking her about fixing my phone and we ended up getting on well, had a few jokes etc then it got out that I was interesting in another girl at work and she stopped talking to me. Now I never gave her any indication that I was interested, we'd been chatting for months at this point only at work, not messaging or hanging out outside of work. So I don't see how I could have given her the impression there was something there.

As for men, I've had other guys fuck me over when it comes to girls. One was a guy I worked with that none of the other guys liked, He got on great with the girls there and I was defending him saying he was okay. Turned out he was saying all sorts of horrible things about me behind my back.
Another was a friend of mine who suddenly developed an interest in a girl he'd known for years and never bothered about when she showed an interest in me. He stabbed me in the back, told lies, sent her embarrassing pictures from when we were kids etc.

I wouldn't give up on women, I'm a genuinely nice guy and even though I have had some people burn me just because they can't have their way but I get on alright with women. I find the secret is, don't focus on the end result.

AleDeEurope · Answer

I've given up on relationships, no more dating, not now, and I don't know what will happen in the future, but there's too much shit with today's relationships that I'd rather avoid.
I'm not giving up on women, I just don't want to date them.
I know I'm gonna get shit by this, but there are too many women that cheat (same with men) and that use guys for their advantage that I don't wanna be that guy. Also, marriages are failing a lot and we all know who's the one losing.

lace1228 · Answer

I think almost everyone at some point say they are giving up on relationships. Sometimes it's just because they have been recently hurt or just got out of a relationship. Usually it means they need a break from from it all and maybe just focus on their selves for a bit.

FakeName123 · Answer

Here are a few reasons why I think this is the case.

- The ruining of family values and bonding.
- The destruction of the beauty in masculinity and femininity, including all that "we are absolutely equal"-gibberish
- No more complementing and co-existing between men and women
- Superficial society
- Increasing amounts of addiction
- Increasing amounts of autists
- Raised by single mothers and thus missing the value of a good father and male rolemodel
- Too much pressure starting early in school already with the lack of developing ones personality
- Decadence
- Poor nutrition
- Being made into the culprit and getting the blame of almost everything bad in the western world right now (see that it's mostly white men who turn away but rarely ever the men of colour).

And probably a few more.

Alternatively just read here: https://www.mostlyodd.com/death-by-utopia/

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