Do you find it insulting that people think confidence is the only dating problem for men?

[Cheesesteak]

Why are people like this towards men?

Point out that women have been literally rejecting you because you are short = Gagers will say you lack confidence

Point out that you have been rejected for being black or Asian = Gagers will will say you lack confidence

Point out you just needed to vent on this site = Gagers will say you lack confidence and are bitter

I could literally film 50 ladies rejecting a guy because of his height and gagers will just say he needs confidence or it's his personality. The ladies could be punching and bullying him, y'all still say "Oh he just needs confidence."

This site has a very weird passive aggressive vibe towards men.

[Citizenkirk]

This may sound like an oversimplification, but I find this relationship dynamic is the only one that I have had any meaningful relationships come from.
Hi I'm Kirk.
Hey Kirk, I'm Jenny, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too, so what do you think they got us working on today?
Oh, probably sanitation work, sterilizing the cages and the meet and greet area, get some practice with eflarage message and loose leash training.
Yes, maybe shampoo and rinse some of the bigger kitties?
Like you and Bowser did yesterday? I'm pretty sure he gave you a bath, rather than the other way around--- bla bla bla bla.
Good nature ribbing as one of my coworkers reminded me that my attempts at tough love with the 920 lb liger kitten got turned on it's head, and me and my back, as I ended up on the receiving end of a giant sponge and soap by a very big kitty cat who loved the attention, loved the water, loved the petting that ended up transitioning from petting of a heavy cat, to heavy petting of each other, Jennifer and myself, of course.
I'd be lying if I said that I was not genuinely terrified of the prospect of approaching this girl and asking her out, and not the least bit afraid a frolicking with her and a very large sudsey domesticated liger cat, because the worst that could happen with him is that he accidentally breaks my body into a million pieces, which is always preferable for a young man too having his heart broken into a million pieces by a girl he really likes. Confidence is a factor, but it's not an isolated factor. An awkward moment, or some unkind words, from a pretty girl's lips is absolute in it's destructive finality of the young man's self-esteem and ego, but finding common ground in the workplace, at school, or in some other social or relief work effort, can level the playing field and create common ground, revealing common interest that makes for a smooth Icebreaker that breaks the ice without even knowing it.
Making a big production out of getting to know someone, in my view, makes it hard to get to know someone. Just letting it happen isn't such an ordeal.

[Priscilla73]

From my experience with men, it really does have a lot to do with how insecure/confident a man is; how they behave when rejected, how they behave in conflict, etc.

For example, short guys. A lot of these guys lack confidence, they might think they’re confident at times, but it might not be the case. There are a lot of subtle things that women pick up on that men may be wholly unaware of; such as body language, what they say, how they react, how they dress, how they handle emotions and challenging situations.

I’m generalizing a lot, but many short men tend to over compensate, they wear shoes with a heel, hats, or more stereotypically, drive a big truck.

When a man tries to overcompensate on something out of his control, we pick up on it. It’s not attractive, we can tell even very subtly that his confidence is lacking. We might not even know why we aren’t attracted to him and that’s how subtle it is... it’s hard to explain haha.

Now, if a short man embraced his shortness wholly? If he was open and bold about it, genuinely didn’t care about it, didn’t try to hide it or get rid of it, that would be attractive. if he is strong, brave, shows that he can be a good and protective partner (I’m a bit traditional but these are also primordial instincts that have persisted for thousands of years), he will be very appealing.
Unfortunately, I think people with big issues (shortness, race, weight, etc) have a hard time become aware of their faults and overcoming them. A lot of it is subconscious and takes a lot of self awareness to confront.

I have a mentor who used to do seminars with David Deida - an author of some great books about men and women - and they would pick people out from the crowd. They’d have some of the men line up, and have women ‘partner up’ with the man they found most attractive. More often than not women would pick men who were not conventionally attractive, but had more genuine/authentic confidence and were comfortable in their masculinity, and made the women feel secure to be around. An insecure man doesn’t feel safe to a woman.

I hope this is isn’t to esoteric or philosophical lol - I am a bit tired so I might not be explaining myself clearly... but I am sad to hear about the passive aggressive behavior here, just found this website and thought it would be a cool place to share perspectives. Regardless, I quite like men so I hope my perspective can help.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I didn't expect to find a David Deida shoutout here of all places, but I love his Way of Superior Man book.

[AdithyaR]

That was very insightful and really interesting to read. Thank you for taking the time to write this answer.

[HiveBee]

In my own experiences, I constantly come across people who lie to me.

People who are afraid to be themselves. And it's not like I'm special. Why are you lying to me to make yourself look better in my eyes?

And girls and guys do it all the time. I hate it. Its cringey as fuck. I can't stand it.

And a ton of guys are like this. Girls are less likely to do it but some still do.

I think us guys are raised to believe we must meet some ideal. Like we must be virtuous like jesus or whatever.

When you tell a guy to be confident, you're telling him to have some kind of mystical virtue.

[HiveBee]

But like, there seems to be two kinds of confidence. One, is owning what you are. If you're short and ugly and you accept it and don't give a fuck. It's better to be like that, than to be a cringey person who is trying to make up for the fact that they aren't perfect.

[HiveBee]

Then there's another kind of confidence that women go bananas for. That ladies man confidence that you all deny and praise at the same time. Because it can't be put into words. It can't be explained.

That's the confidence all men wish they had. So that we could control our own dating lives.

A woman never has to develop herself in that way. The lowliest ugliest most disgusting women still only need to sit and wait and settle the best that comes their way

A man has to work and strive and toil and kill himself to make himself attractive to women.

It's extremely painful and we resent women for it. You dont have to do anything and we have to become perfect.

[HiveBee]

And it's all aiming for some mystical ideal that makes your pussy tingle. But you couldnt possibly put it into words. You couldnt explain what it is or else every man would be like that.

And take any woman, put her in a mans body, have her go out and date, and every single one of you would fail.

You think you understand this complex emotional desire that makes you attracted to certain men. Many women on this site think it's so simple. That any man who lacks these traits is simply a loser who doesn't try.

[HiveBee]

And that's why you always see men being weird and failing. Because impossible to simply become what women want. And women's mistake when giving men advice, is thinking that its simple. That any man who isn't attractive e to women merely lacks maturity in a variety of areas of life. Emotional, mental, social, and so on.

But the real truth is, that it's none of that. The truth is that women would not have dating success if put into a mans body.

Women would fail miserably in a mans body. And there's many of examples in real life of women doing exactlythat. Or as close as you can get to that anyways.

And every time the woman goes in confidently, believing that she will do great. She understands that mystical virtue these silly immature men just can't or won't understand.

And every time. the woman fails and is struck by how incredibly difficult it is to be a man trying to date women.

Boom.

[Priscilla73]

@SomeGuyCalledTom Awesome that someone else is familiar with his work! It was really healing and eye opening for me, I like sharing it as maybe it will help someone else too.

[Anonymous]

It is not the only solution.. but when there is not the option to get taller or change your skin colour, then you need to do something else. And then focusing on your personality is key. If you just want to vent and say women will never date a short man, then post it somewhere no one can answer.

[guesswhoseback]

There is bullying and there is tough love.

Bullying/trolling is insulting someone because it makes you feel better and a sense of superiority. You can easily identify a bully/troll because they are the first to throw out quick labels. Maybe they are deeply insecure and/or a sociopath. Either way they are really just miserable pieces of shit. I could care less what they think of me.

Then there is tough love. Tough love is telling someone what they need to hear vs what they want to hear. But it’s done by criticizing a person’s action or behavior NOT the person in general. The person giving tough love does not get off on criticizing the other person. They don’t enjoy it. They really want to help them.

But the truth is GAG is faceless and we are only getting bits and pieces of people’s actual realities. Most people on here are sure as hell not dating experts. Even the smart people on here are getting limited information about the situation and can give give bad opinions.

Don’t place this place seriously. I just use it to ventilate.

[rjroy3]

Lol I don't disagree. Just saying that a laaaarge portion of men's issue can be resolved with a rock solid acceptance of self. Basically confidence, but I'll describe it this way.

Years back I used to play basketball all the time. Got really good and would travel to different areas to play people. This one time I came across a Marine who wanted to play one on one.

I obliged and proceeded to destroy him. I don't remember if he even scored 5 points but that's not what stood out to me. What stood out is I was dominating him and with every play he let it roll off his shoulder like it was nothing.

He was so completely unfazed by things not going his way that it was insane. Me at that time I was like, if I were losing this bad I'd be embarrassed, possibly getting my ego effected, get down on myself.

But this guy brushed it off like it was nothing and pushed forward for the win. Even tho he lost he forever had my respect for that. That's the only time I ever saw him and I still remember him over 10 years later.

When I say confidence I mean deep down you are just yourself and truly believe that's enough. You roll with punches and don't take things as an affront to who you are as a person.

If you get a harsh rejection you're more likely to laugh than get down on yourself because the girl doesn't even know you. How crazy must she be to go that hard. Or possibly you missed something and can correct it moving forward.

That's what I mean when I say confidence. Because I've gone through that too and it made a world of difference. You obviously need more than JUST confidence but you can go so far purely based on your self esteem as a man.

I don't consider it insulting for that reason. Just unhelpful in the moment because that's not something you develop with the flip of a switch. It takes time.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Yes I do find it insulting, but moreover, its just really stupid. Most women don't give 2 shits about confidence, they care about looks, hobbies, personalities, goals, habits, and everything else guys care about in women.

Most men also have plenty of confidence, so much so that a lot of them do stupid shit all the time and then women complain about it, so If anything less overconfidence and more caution would be more helpful, but even then, that just makes you less risky, not more attractive, only shared interests/mentalities and prefered body types result in attraction, and those vary drastically from woman to woman/man to man.

But yeah, guys having a hard time finding a girlfriend/wife? yeah its because its hard to find someone period thats relatable if you in any way be yourself, each individual person is usually very different from the vast majority of their similarly aged peers, most people pretend to be more generic than they are in order to fit in, only to realize that doesn't work in a relationship.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Also, quite a few women enjoy being dominant over a submissive guy, and many guys find that to be attractive, and those women are going to end up the persuers, oh and on the topic of persuit, both men and women may not choose to persue, not because of lack of confidence, but because they don't have any interest in trying to chase and would rather just date a person after being best friends for a while. So its a gross assumption to say that even in cases where a guy isn't starting a convo with a woman, that doesn't auto equate to a confidence issue, there could be any number of other reasons.

[Anonymous]

They say it because there are plenty of short guys who get women, who don't care that they're short. I'm really short. I've never had a problem finding women. Have some of them rejected me for being too short? Yes. The difference between me and those guys is that it didn't knock my confidence at all.

Women are very good at reading guys. Much better than most guys are at reading women. They can tell if you're faking confidence from your body language and facial expressions.

If you go up to a woman and in your head you're already expecting her to shoot you down because you're short, she's going to be able to read that lack of confidence no matter how confident you try to act. Meanwhile a guy like me who genuinely doesn't give a fuck they can sense it.

Shit I mean a few of the girls I've been with have made comments about me being too short. That's what a lot of women do, they get testy to see how confident you are. The less attractive you are and the more confident you are, the more they'll do this. When you're un-reactive they're more likely to change their opinion of you, even to become curious as to why you're so confident.

[NathanDavis]

Back in school days, whenever I got close to guys that were "considerably" shorter, they would step away from me immediately and I could feel they were not comfortable at all, and some where even pissed off right away. But they would not say a thing.

I do remember two of the in particular, and the two of them would never do this, not only they would get close to me, they were louder than most as well, they were the shortest guys on their respective classes but also among the most outgoing out there.

I won't say which were also quite popular with girls, but it is an easy guess.

[Tuna陶拿恆]

It all depends on the person tbh im nearly 1.80cm, and my best friend in school was higher than me. I was hanging out with him without caring outside.

[nomidnight4298]

There is kind of a loop here. Tall men traditionally and unconsciously get more compliments and promotions which boost their confidence. Confidence allows you to better achieve more opportunities.

While you may not have a confidence issue as a short person, etc it is still an important factor for everyone. I've found women love remarkably high confidence in men. Probably that way you are more likely to be a go-getter and can be her emotional rock. So long as the confidence is genuine, I don't really think there is a limit. Better to be a little cocky than a little inhibited.

[bamesjond0069]

Well no matter your problem you fix it or compensate for it as much as possible and the rest is confidence. My one friend is short asf and he still pulls girls.

Im muscular good looking and a millionaire. Even i get rejected a ton. If i stopped because 50 girls denied me id have been done and living in a cave alone already. Just keep going. You need to not give a fuck. Half the time a girl negs you its a shit test. Just be like "aha you thought i wanted you. Im dating someone and just being friendly. Thats fucking hilarious." Go right back on them with some bullshit.

[Anonymous]

No body thinks that dude. BUT you can't do ANYTHING about your height or your race. NOTHING. Same with your possibly inadequate dick size. So it doesn't make a ton of sense to spend a lot of time obsessing over it because you won't change your dating outcomes that way. Better to focus on the things you can actually influence. Confidence is HUGELY important in attracting women. If you don't have it, you're not going to get outcomes as great as you could. So fix that. Same with working out, eating clean, becoming a success at work and with money, developing some style, cultivating a good social network, developing some interesting hobbies, etc., etc. There's a LOT you actually CAN control which will lead to better dating outcomes. So if what you want is to actually score with the ladies, I suggest you focus on those things.

[Paolaa988]

I find it really devastating and rude people are able to talk down on guys as if that's the only struggle. Like guys have feelings and emotions too.. its really messed up to pick on guys im sorry you guys face that. I've never did that to a guy.

[Anonymous]

I have never found anyone who thought that was the only problem. But it is a huge problem for most of the guys with chronic dating problems. Especially because they usually misidentified their problem blaming something beyond their control so they can have an excuse not to change and improve.

[R3DthatDude]

Because confidence is sexy, it makes someone who isn’t physically attractive, more attractive. Rejection is unavoidable, every women you see isn’t going to want throw themselves at you just because your a man unless you’re a rich & famous person. Chances are you will be rejected sometimes but if your more confident which is the word you seem to hate, it will be less. Less doesn’t mean 100%... it means less.

[AdithyaR]

I've seen a couple answers here about how a majority of things being attributed to confidence and I agree with the other opinions.
It's about accepting oneself for who we are, once we do that, we know how to be around people who appreciate the genuine you.

[MannMitAntworten]

I am completely indifferent to this. I reject women just as they reject me. We all have taste and often times my taste does not include certain women just as I am not included within the taste of certain women of interest. Big deal... there is always the next woman of interest around the corner. Then it is merely a matter of whether ‘we’ keep one another’s interest in moving forward. Life goes on.

[themythos]

Yes. confidence over simplifies it. It's about your appearance, approach, timing (is she with friends is is day or night), reading her mood, location (library, hallway, sidewalk, movie theater) etc. Then realistically cold approaching is one of the least successful in long term dating, with approaching someone you already know being better but even more stressful.

[MackWestwood]

Because of the way men and women approach dating, men will get far more rejections than dates. That's life, and it kinda sucks sometimes. Instead of confidence, just work on being the best version of yourself. The personality and confidence will follow from there.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

It’s a bigger problem for men. Because it’s most socially acceptable for men to make the first move. Tons of girls think they are ugly. Confidence could be one thing but is there any pattern? Anything you can do to fix your personality or your looks?

[TheSpaceGnome]

In today's society (at least in the united states anyway) men are socially bashed for hitting on women, so much as showing interest or attraction verbally in a polite way is deemed by the majority as a form of sexual harrasment.

Many women take this a step further, and get pissed if a guy even says hi to them. And on the inverse, a woman can physically rape a guy and no one cares, not even the courts, so I would have to say the reverse is true, its more socially acceptable right now for women to make the first move since people tend to let them get away with whatever bs they pull.

Now thats not to say that all women are jerks, more that if a woman chooses to be one, society doesn't really do anything about it.

In my own personal opinion though, i think expecting either gender to do the first move is dumb, if anyone, male or female, likes someone, they should be able to tell them their feelings with zero reprocussion (aside from rejection/acceptance).

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

@TheSpaceGnome you seem really bitter. Why don’t you talk to your friends and family about your dating patterns. I don’t personally know you , but it’s kind of wrong to blame women in general for your problems.

[TheSpaceGnome]

1. I'm not bitter, your statement was simply inaccurate, I corrected it based on what I've seen evidence of.

2. I don't have dating patterns, I don't ask women out because I've yet to find a woman around my age who is single and shares my interests hobbies, etc. (that I also find attractive and didn't hit on me first anyway, and is inside my country, and doesn't want kids, and doesn't smoke or drink or do drugs, etc. aka I like forward nerdy gamer women with a number of other stipulations involved).

3. The level of innacuracy in your statement is 99% based on viewing other guys attempting to persue women and the most common reactions, not my own efforts, in fact I've never asked a girl out in my entire life (never had to). It is simply fact that in most cases men are unfairly treated when attempting to show interest.

4. Not once in any comment or post did I ever blame all women for anything on this or any site.

5. My friends and family all have horrible dating lives, I'm usually the one getting asked for advice because I don't get their problems (because I'm actually picky), and when I ask for advice on how to increase the number of times I'm exposed to the types of women I like, everyone I know or come across online and offline seems a bit stumped.

6. Am I not allowed to defend the points of other people's plights on top of my own? Because if so, I'm gonna do it anyway.

[Anonymous]

I think this goes for men and women. Confidence does draw people to you I gotta admit even if there not the nicest people. But some people don’t really care about confidence. There are people who act confident but are secretly insecure.

[ct1243]

I don’t reject men based on confidence or money , but merely his approach or attitude towards me. A woman can sense low self esteem; a lot of men demonstrate it in actions and words.

[TacosRAwesome]

I think the confidence thing is true but just because someone is confident it doesn't mean they're attractive.

[Anonymous]

Confidence is an issue, but not the only issue. It DEPENDS on the woman. If confidence was actually everything that matters, you’d see women dating homeless guys; some of them can be quite charming.

Any woman with self respect and substance desires the “whole package” in a man. Combination of looks (including height), personality, lifestyle and values.

[DiegoO]

Confidence move the world. If you don't have any confidence in dating, you'll self sabotage every attempt to date someone, and the opposite sex (or whatever sexual preference you have) will detect that fear.