I'm gonna give the men on here a scenario and I want them to be totally honest.
Right the scenario is that your a manger at a company you've just hired a young girl, she's a little shy, put comes off really sweet and looks really pretty. You hear from some of the the much older female staff but she is no good at her job and but she lies and cheats on her paperwork and but they refuse to train her as she is no good. You ask the new girl about this and she tells you but the older women do not like her and that she's being bullied. The older women are better at there jobs then the new girl and have more experience in the company then her but they are known for being a little harsh especially to young girls who start new at the company. The new girl report her grievance to HR, the head of HR is your best friend and tells you this girl is over sensitive but your friend/head of HR she is also very old, not very attractive and isn't very experienced in HR.
The grievance also goes forward to the head of operations. The head of operations is also very young and dislikes the women accused of bullying but also is a little sweet on the new girl so decides to protect her against the accused bullies at work and fully supports her and sticks up for her when questioned about her performance.
Whose side are you taking? New girlAccused bullies/older colleagues
Updates
+1 y
I'm asking this as I'm in a similar situation to the new girl in my scenario and my looks have played a minor part in the argument. The bullies have now said upper management are only protecting me because I'm younger and prettier than them and I have been told by friends but when I'm in meetings about my grievance but I should make myself look more pretty and innocent then I already do look as "men eat that shit up". I genuinely I'm the victim but having hearing this today has made me wonder
Any manager who has any management skills at all and knows what he/she is doing, is going to look past age and attractiveness - and will want to get down to what the actual performance of the employee is. At the end of the day, you are either good at your job / capable, or you are not. Management won't put their neck on the line for you if you are not doing your job well. They just won't. It will set them up for all kinds of accusations. Its all documented and it all will have to be above board.
The days where attractive women could have some kind of advantage are pretty much over. No manager wants to be under a microscope and accused of favoritism or harassment or sexism. Everyone who even hints at anything is being investigated. People are just looking for excuses to create a case.
Nowadays, any favoritism of someone for their looks gets quickly sniffed out and squashed, as everyone and I mean everyone in companies nowadays is under a huge microscope regarding workplace sexism, etc. If you are an attractive young female, they will be super sensitive to anything inappropriate related to your gender/looks, etc. If a manager tries to sweep something under the rug or shows you favoritism, they are at risk for an investigation.
And also older people are a protected class - as you cannot discriminate against older employees because of their age. And they know that. So they will be very sensitive if you get any perceived preferential treatment.
Companies nowadays are terrified of bad press and lengthy and expensive lawsuits.
The answer here is to let HR do an investigation of the bullying charges. If its real, they will find evidence and address it. If your job performance is good, then you should have nothing to worry about. If the politics and the dynamics with your coworkers suck, you either have to find a way to make peace, or find another job. That is the reality. This isn't about taking sides / who your friend is.
I’ve seen it before when the people in a job for 20-30 years are so insecure about their job that they lie about anyone new in their department. In order to get to the bottom of it, the supervisor has to address the accusations from the new hire. Is the new hire not actually being trained? Is the new hire actually terrible at her job or does she need more training? If she just started then she probably just needs more training. Those issues have to be dealt with head-on and shouldn’t proceed to HR because HR doesn’t handle those types of issues. These are simple managerial issues and if the supervisor is going around gossiping with other people about how terrible the new hire is then the supervisor needs to be demoted. I’m leaning on the side of the new hire only because I’ve seen how the coworkers 30-40 years older bully the younger hires because they’re insecure about their looks and their career. The department head should deal with this seriously instead of pushing it to a director or HR.
Judgers are gonna judge and haters are gonna hate but don't let that affect your self esteem or how you are doing your job.
If they were acting profesional then you wouldn't be asking, just do your job, get done and get it done right! Then you have nothing to worry about and they are just rambling off about something that isn't true!!!
I think everyone should, how someone dresses, puts their hair, what makeup they wear, their expressions, they say lots of things about someone's values.
I find the second lady to look a lot more pleasant to talk to.
Unfortunately, most men "do eat that shit up." It causes problems though because the men will be accused of being attracted to the more pretty girl.
It's a double edge sword for men when it comes to office politics. As someone who has been in that position, it's not fun. I had to stay away from the women with a claim and always called a colleague to witness conversations.
It's equally as bad for the women. The younger and/or prettier can be accused of "sleeping" their way up. Yet another claim.
To answer your initial question: "Do men judge women based on their looks?" The answer is yes. However, all people judge others based on looks. There is a lot of scientific and research-based evidence to back up how people perceive and judge others based on looks alone.
Your manager sucks if one of my employees came and told me they weren’t going to train someone for whatever reason then I’d tell them they get paid to do a job and if they can’t someone else will. Then I’d talk to the new hire and get a feel for the situation without mentioning the complaint and pay extra attention to the situation and either help the old hire to learn different techniques for training or help the new hire with wherever she’s lacking. Anybody can do anything anyone else can do if they really want to and are properly trained
Women can be catty, petty , jealous, vindictive and territorial, ALL WOMEN, but as a woman youth and beauty fade and things start to sag and wrinkle they become even more so. As a company owner I would check your paperwork for accuracy and honesty, and I would investigate the goings on in the old hens club as well. Business is about making money, and lying, cheating, petty squabbles and in fighting all take away from productivity. If necessary I’d hire all new people and clean house of the old ones, because it’s nobody else’s turf or kingdom but mine.
I have worked in offices where there are older women who hate it when a new attractive girl comes into the office. New people are not going to be as good as the job as older experienced people because 1 they ate new to the job and 2 they have less general work experience. Women can be so bitchy towards each other it's sick really, jealousy is very ugly. The girl might be good at the job with a bit of training and given a chance, but so often they are not given the opportunity as the senior women push them out. You have to rise above it and be better than them and meet the challenge and do the best job you can to prove them wrong. Regardless of his feelings towards her I think he has done the right thing as he probably see the same kind of thing I've seen, everyone deserves a chance.
I've had similar experiences as a restaurant manager. Regardless of my own personal feelings on any of that scenario, best thing for the restaurant, offer the new girl a position else where in the company and find someone else for the vacated position. If she refuses to change jobs, have to let her go. While i look for a replacement i would have the women who refused to train a new employee take over the responsibilities of the position left by the new girl. A way of letting them know if they can't make it work with a new hire they will have to work harder. I'd feel like an unbelievable ass, but the company will be better for it. If it wasn't an at-will hire state, I'd have to come up with something different.
unfortunately at the price of sounding like a cuck... I'd be on the new girl's side. I am in a similar situation honestly so I know what NOT being trained for the job you were expected to do is like and that shit fucks with you mentally.
Also, the key thing is she is NOT being TRAINED so that is a red flag, can't expect someone who wasn't properly trained to handle the job assignments. Toxic work environment which sounds like the older women are jealous of the young pretty sweet thing which I have also experienced, funny enough as a guy. Some older folks just discriminate towards the young also vice-versa
If I was the manager, it wouldn't be looks that called attention. A employee should be able to do teamwork and train new employees. I wouldn't accept bitching an arguments. Your both there to do a work, looks doesn't affect job performance. So I would remove any excuses from the table. You guys don't need to like each other but you need to be able to work together. I would also get the views of other employees that work in close by. That would clear up who is lying and about what.
I would simply observe and train the new girl myself. After adequate time spent training her i would evaluate her work performance if she’s decent at the job no problem she stays. If she’s terrible at the job then she must go regardless of her looks.
I would go with an independent investigation by the ombudsman and reach out to facts. Moreover if the young girl who recently joined was no good at her job why would the company hire her in the first place.
I meant there would be some reason or skills the company would have noticed in the girl. I wouldn't just accept what the others said just cos they are in the company longer.
None but my own, I NEVER get involved in office problems like this, but if I've worked with the new start I'll give a honest opinion of her performance levels. I have learned over 30+ year that it is not worth you taking sides in the scenario you laid out, rule one is look after yourself, if others want to have their little dramas let the get on with it and keep out of the way.
this as well as if am forced by bosses to "pick a side" (assuming that being forced does not have me choose to leave said company instead) then i will observe/investigate and find my own honest assessment.
I'd have to review performance ratings. Just put everything on paper and back up everything with evidence and no hearsay. It's got to be fair. If I'm the boss and the senior employees are not helping the junior employees that is a major issue. Personal feelings are taking priority over the success of the company.
Safe work environment. Company success. No drama. Avoid lawsuits.
This just shows why HR is important… like what company are you in that is this incapable… anyway since there really is nothing to go on about i would not take any side and find a solution for both the only real action i could take is go take some action in HR since its your only problem its certain for me in this scenario
It's very difficult not to take the side of the younger, prettier and most importantly sweeter woman. As a mid-40's man, I'd be thinking about my daughter who resembles the blonde in your photo and want to protect her. Looks only go so far though... if she's not sweet, it's very easy to remove the looks and age differences.
I think there is a way to handle this without taking sides. First id stop any bullying that is going on. Than i would see where she is struggling and help her become proficient at her job. If its an internal issue and she just doesn’t want to work than the consequences are on her
HR the older ones who aren't screwups or dingbats or airheads on their job. i hate to break it to you but looks and being sweet and shy don't get the job done correctly and lying and cheating on paperwork will get you fired and whining about older people who have been there longer than you will only make things worse for you. so suck it up learn how to do your job properly then maybe just maybe you won't get fired a week later
i hate to burst your little delusional bubble but unless this job of yours is a modeling contest or a beauty pageant your looks don't mean shit if you're a screwup and an airheaded dingbat at your job. so suck it up and learn how to do your job correctly or be shown the door. ok buttercup
this is a clear cut and dry scenario both the newbie is a dingbat and the old battleaxe hag doesn't want to get off her lazy rotten ass to train the dingbat to do her job properly. either the old battleaxe gets off her lazy rotten ass to train the airheaded dingbat properly or they'll both be fired. simple as that
"I'm asking this as I'm in a similar situation to the new girl in my scenario and my looks have played a minor part in the argument. The bullies have now said upper management are only protecting me because I'm younger and prettier than them and I have been told by friends but when I'm in meetings about my grievance but I should make myself look more pretty and innocent then I already do look as "men eat that shit up". I genuinely I'm the victim but having hearing this today has made me wonder"
uh no i'm not offended. you're just pissed because someone an outsider who isn't going to kiss your ass because you're "pretty" as you put it can't do your job right and are ready to blame everyone else for your sheer incompetence and are looking for sympathy from any male who will listen to your whiney dingbat airheaded ass. next time tell the person who's training you to go over the instructions again and write them down and follow along better and ask your manager for somebody else to train you if you don't like who's training you. use your mouth for something other than sucking on cocks to get hired
