Are some medical fields based on faulty practice?

[wolf359]

Isn't it a fact that psychiatry seeks to control people and arbitrarily deem who is ill or not?

There isn't even any firm definition of mental illness anyhow. Who is "mentally ill" from these persons? A CEO of a multi-national who abuses his employees, or a homeless man who talks loudly in the streets during the day and lives in a hostel at night? IMO, the former, since the latter is not causing any serious harm to others.

[1xadzy3dgSG]

To be honest, everybody could be given some diagnosis or another, but there are some people who are legitimately sick. And, I mean, you could ask who's really able to be deemed sick, or not, but I think what it really comes down to is "are you a potential threat to yourself or another person?" A man who's talking to himself might be diagnosed with schizophrenia, but is he really ill? He might be. A psychiatrist could say he is, but unless he's harming enough person or causing some disturbance, then it's whatever. I mean, I think we all have a little bit of sickness inside our heads. The only difference is when you're unable to live in society. So, it it real? Maybe. I mean, how can mental illness be proven? It really can't. I mean, there's criteria you have to meet. But, I've met the criteria for about 20 different illnesses. Even ones that contradict each other. So, I guess the thing is, who knows. If psychiatry helps you, that's cool. If you don't need psychiatric help, or can do better without it, that's whatever, too. Like, I said before, it all comes down to whether or not you're able to function in society. (Sorry, about the rambling :/)

[wolf359]

OK, so you support that psychiatry is random, arbitrary and designed to punish people. lol..

[wolf359]

What is social functioning? lol.. look, push your conservative norms as medical fact all you want. Psychiatry only exists to punish "difference", assign illness to people merely on the basis of persons they don't like/approve of, and label and condemn people.

Why then should psychiatry be the odd one out? Since when cardiology label people? or neurology? or urology? haha.. As for harming others, well you prove the point. many people hurt others but are not "ill".

[1xadzy3dgSG]

Well, I mean, the human brain is so complex that it's difficult to in fact assign a particular mental illness to a person. But, I think it can give a person a basic understanding of who they are. And, if somebody is mentally ill they can be given medications that can help them (not always, but I've met people who were in fact helped by medication) and so on. And, it's not about condemning people, or labeling them, or whatever. And, yes, I do think people who hurt others are mentally ill.

[1xadzy3dgSG]

Like, I said, every single person can be diagnosed with some illness. And, I think the only reason people don't believe in psychology is because, like I said, the human brain is complex it's difficult to say what's wrong with each and every person. But, I've seen mental illness first hand, and let me tell you, it is very real.

[wolf359]

OK, so to you, people should be arbitarily assigned illnesses, based on your whim. But as long as you're OK, and that the world is meant to be sh*tty, right? loll..

This is why you make continual posts about "the charity" of the world and say you're a Christian haha..

[1xadzy3dgSG]

Um...that's not what I said...but whatever. And, I never once said I'm a Christian lol

[wolf359]

Yes, you did, don't lie about it. haha..

[1xadzy3dgSG]

Um when? lol And, trust me, I am the farthest thing from a Christian you will find.

[523206720]

They classified me as mentally ill because I had obscure religious beliefs and now the psychiatrist knows he made a mistake but is too ashamed to admit it. He just tries to dodge my dad whenever my father bugs him to give him an appointment with me. I'm trying to figure out what to do because I can't afford a liar to undo this.

[wolf359]

This is an example. So the psychiatrist who hates difference labels you as "ill", then this makes psychiatry evil.

[arashmenalagha]

That's so funny, so they don't want to admit that they were wrong?! why? and what do you mean you can't afford a liar. Do you mean Lawyer?

[523206720]

yeah a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

You're mentally ill when your behavior doesn't allow you to relate to other people normally nor be productive to society. You're mentally ill and dangerous when that behavior puts you or other people in danger.

A CEO might be, to some point, a psychopath, but his behavior gives more money to shareholders and make the company more competitive, and that's considered good for society. This is one of the problems of letting money rule the world and measure everything in money value. Alas, at least in the USA, if you speak against those practices you'll be labeled and accused of communism by those same poor wretch employees. A lot of hypocrisy and self-destructive behavior, but nothing we didn't ask for.

[wolf359]

OK, so psychiatry is evil, and supports abuse for the "greater good". Ok...

[wolf359]

lol.. screw you and your "medical branch". What even defines being productive to society? See you "medicine" is based on how people used to think in early modern times lolol.. Is that what science is, just relaying social beliefs or DESCRIBING reality?

By your reasoning, people who are Goths are "ill", because people as you "don't like it". And you merely use the excuse "it's not an exact science" to justify the practice without any methodology.

[Opinion Owner]

No. Psychiatry studies and treats mental illness. It's just that some behaviors (not all of them) might be considered pathological or not depending on the context. Pathological, nonetheless. If you study classic heroes, people who got glory and fame by destroying cities, enslaving its citizens and stealing their wealth, those wouldn't be considered mentally ill back in those days, but they would today.

[wolf359]

haha. You've proven my point again. It's subjective, based on punishing people. Why should medicine punish people. Why do you support punishing people, if you claim to be so kind?

You know Anders Breivik was deemed mentally well? So again, you support arbitrary diagnoses and abuse, yet medicine is supposed to support wellness? lol.

Psychiatry only supports the MORAL AGENDA of psychiatrists. It is not scientific, and there is no genuine effort to help people.

[Opinion Owner]

You don't live isolated from society. If you are incapable of a socially acceptable behavior you need professional help, that's out of question.

[wolf359]

So you suggest medical abuse.

Also, define socially acceptable? You're essentially saying that psychiatry is evil and is designed to abuse people.

[Opinion Owner]

No, YOU are saying that. Calling psychiatry "medical abuse" is like calling murderer imprisonment "judicial abuse". Socially acceptable is, for one thing, being able to live your life without causing trouble nor disturbing the social peace. Second, being capable to thrive in society to a point of relative autonomy.

Look, I don't know what's happening to you, but if you don't agree with your psychiatrist go ask for a second opinion. If the second psychiatrist tells you the same: listen to them

[wolf359]

It is abuse. You've alluded to arbitrary labels based on whim and essentially selection of who is ill or not. You can't even articulate your point properly, since some who cause trouble for others are not even deemed "Iill", so again f*** you and your selective and evil practice. I bet YOU are a psychiatrist, and YOU pick and choose who is "ill" based on your own whims.

[wolf359]

lol.. So if the 9/11 killers were not ill, why not? lol.. You've just proven my point, that you and your ilk determine who is ill at whim, and who isn't, and justify it via some bullsh*t "morality".

I think YOU are a danger to society. You think you can regulate others' rights and space based on your metaphysical morality haha.. You don't even make sense, probably why you entered psychiatry in the first place..

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'm a scientist. I have articulated my point more than sufficiently, you're the one asking loaded questions and resorting to insults when you hear something you don't like. Arbitrary labels based on whim? Sure... whatever...

[Opinion Owner]

I think I already made clear that psychiatry is not about morality, you can keep shouting your empty words as long as and loud as you want, it's not true.

[wolf359]

I don't like psychiatry, nor your points. You're essentially saying that psychiatry is a tool to punish people who don't adhere to the subjective morality of psychiatrists. Psychiatry is about morality, and determining who is ill at whim. but no, as long as it doesn't affect you, big f***ing deal haha..

Psychiatrists use no standard metrics to determine who is ill or not, but rather based on personal opinion.

[Opinion Owner]

No I'm not. You are saying psychiatry is a tool to punish people based on morality. I'm saying something completely different. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, you opinion about reality won't change it. Psychiatrists do use standard metrics as well as clinical diagnostics. I told you already, if you don't like your diagnostic find a second opinion. If two different psychiatrists tell you the same, they're probably right.

[wolf359]

No, psychiatrists hate all things not traditional. So this thus means most in modern Western society are ill.

It's a foolish science, based on how people used to think/reason in the early modern era. It's based on the morality of a past era and not of scientific bases.

[ladsin]

not always I mean psychiatry is actually an interesting field of medicine... and there are some serious mental illnesses, ie schizophrenia etc. but I think some are kinda made up ie bipolar disorder which basically means people can just fly off the handle and say well it's because I have bipolar. I knew a kid that if his parents just disciplined him he wouldn't have acted the way he did...

[wolf359]

No, the entire science is made up.

[ladsin]

oh god not this sh*t again...

[wolf359]

lol. I don't get why I must listen to your insistence, but if I choose to cite opinions, you cannot silence me.

[ladsin]

it's not an opinion schizophrenia is real...

[Ultima]

depression is very real too.

[wolf359]

According to the beliefs of psychiatrists, maybe. these are the "people" who hate those who aren't conservative and religious, so what do they know lolol..

[ladsin]

What? that literally makes noo sense, people who see and hear things that aren't actually there is pretty obviously an actual psychological problem

[wolf359]

and it's conservative society that says this is wrong. there is no metric to determine normal behavior , other than what a "society" deems fit.

[Otrolite]

I've met bipolar people and I can assure you it is no joke. It is a very serious illness supported by clinical diagnosis. I've also met the light version of bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and it was at least as dramatic. The episodes swings can be effectively controlled by psychopharmacology, and patients can live normal lives thanks to them.

[ladsin]

perhaps I'm not saying in all cases its not true, but with this kid his parents never spanked him or anything, for instance the kid pulled a knife on our principal when he was in the 2nd grade if I ever did something like that the beating I wouldve received from my mom wouldve had me quivering till today. but his parents were like oh it's because he gets angry easily. One day he ran around hitting girls so I went up to him and punched him in the face, he never messed with girls in front of me again..

[wolf359]

can you quantify what "normal" is? look, don't let reality blind you. Psychiatry is not a "science", it's just arbitrary sh*t designed to punish.

Seeing things not there is not "normal"? Normal by what reasoning? Is there any inherent "normal" in humans, which has been measured and analysed? No lolol.. Seems strange you advocate these conservative morals yet you still post a lot how drunk you get, and how you beat people up in university lolol.. but no, "psychiatry" selects who is "ill".

[Otrolite]

That's not bipolar disorder. Read a bit about the condition. Bipolar people go through episodes of mania and depression, it has nothing to do with violent people or anything like that. Bipolar people either feel awesomely great or deeply depressed, nothing in between, and its related to an imbalance in the neurotransmitters levels. Serious stuff.

[Otrolite]

No, it's not made up. I've seen it and I've seen the consequences. I've also seen the improvement thanks to the medication.

Also, don't confuse psychiatrists with psychiatry. If one psychiatrist is a racist that doesn't make psychiatry evil, the same way if a fireman is a racist that doesn't make firefighting evil. And no, psychiatrist won't say being an atheist is bad, it's the same than racism. If a psychiatrist tells you that, go to another psychiatrist and consider reporting on him.

[wolf359]

Eh?

You've all mentioned some conservative morality as the basis of mental health. As as atheism is not "traditional", it should be an illness per your points, right?

[Otrolite]

I haven't mention morality at all, YOU have. Atheism is not harmful to society nor the individual, so it is not considered a mental illness by the Wold Health Organization or any other professional medical organization. Psychiatrist can't decide you're ill without a scientific basis, if one does, you can report him and get his license revoked.

[wolf359]

Yet you pick and choose what is harmful to society. Terrorists are not ill, and you seem to be dismissing my points, yet expect me to answer all of yours hahah.. YOU are ill, if you believe this.

[Anonymous]

No, I don't think psychiatry, as a whole, seeks to control people.

I do think some people take things too far, constantly proclaiming some sort of mental illness, as a way to get attention, but honestly, there really are a lot of mentally ill people in the world.

I've seen it and worked with it... it's real. They aren't always making it up, neither are the specialists.

[wolf359]

So expound on what is mental illness. What makes one person "more ill" than another? it's subjective.

[Opinion Owner]

When someone's reality is different than the objective reality.

For example, seeing or hearing things that aren't there... that's a legitimate mental illness.

[wolf359]

reality is never objective. nothing truly is.

[Opinion Owner]

There is such a thing as an objective reality.

You say everything doesn't exist, haha!

Bye.

[wolf359]

then prove it and cite some evidence of it. normalcy doesn't just rest on what some conservative society says.

[Opinion Owner]

Just google "objective reality"... I'm not going to waste my time explaining something in detail to you. I learned, a long time ago, that it's fruitless, haha!

Good night.

[wolf359]

Yeah so neurology is false and all phenomenon are not subjective. haha..

Kind of proves my point, since psychiatry merely reflects the subjective morals of these people.

[Janson]

I agree with sparrow, unsurprisingly

[wolf359]

OK, so are people who don't follow "norms" ill?

You all mention "violence", OK so are murderers and rapists per se "ill"? How come then not all murderers/rapists are treated for mental illness?

Why are YOU "normal" when YOU say "there are really a lot of mentally ill people in the world"?

[wolf359]

what's more, you're a fool - link

lolol. how come people are questioning it?

I guess your profession deems this "ill" lolol.. Then you're a crook and a fool. You post all the time about "non-conventional" things modern society does or values, then you cite the nonsense you did below. And you have on some occasions mocked MY contradictions lol..

The "practice" is not science, yeah geologists seeks to control people lol.

[Ultima]

I think Chiropractic is like that.

many think its just a big scam to make you keep going back over and over: link

[ladsin]

i think some depression is real, just not all of it. some instances I feel like the person actually has a chemical imbalance, and some are just being cry babys

[wolf359]

Psychiatry IS a scam.

[Ultima]

YOU are a scam

[wolf359]

No, since psychiatry is a fraud.

[Ultima]

no, you are a fraud. I clearly won this debate. stop making yourself look bad

[wolf359]

won what? lol... I'm simply saying that psychiatry is a fraud.

[Ultima]

and I'm saying you lost. good day sir

[wolf359]

eh? I don't care what you think. you're weird, you seemingly can't get on with people.

[Ultima]

and no one cares what you think

[wolf359]

and no one cares about your absolutist rants.

[Ultima]

Talking about yourself there right?

[wolf359]

no, you. lol. I'm laughing how you have such grand insight to say who or what matters. I'm secure, unlike you seemingly so I don't always say what's what.

Do parents play video games?

What do you think life is like inside a pokerball?

Hmm.. supreme insight there.

[Ultima]

whoa someone has no life if they are following my questions around

[wolf359]

I don't give a sh*t what you ask. There is no reason I should. But if you don't post such insight, how I am bad if I don't? lolol..

[Anonymous]

QA: I just read this question and your comments throughout. Yikes! You need to get over your aversion to psychiatry because you some. You're a freakin' nutter!

[wolf359]

Because I "some" what? Learn English, dolt.

[Anonymous]

"Isn't it a fact that psychiatry seeks to control people and arbitrarily deem who is ill or not?"

No, that is false. Wherever did you get such a backward idea?

[wolf359]

By your posts.

You all say that psychiatry is subjective, so people thus are arbitrarily deemed ill based on the belief of a doctor.

You're essentially saying that psychiatry should exist no matter what, even if it's not effective or based on a corrupt premise.

[Opinion Owner]

Of course it is subjective. Mental illness can only be diagnoses based on a patient's behavior, and every person is different. A psychologist cannot dissect a person's brain to diagnose a behavioral problem. It is an imperfect science, like any other, but with limitations that other sciences do not face.

But every medical discipline is subjective to a degree, not just psychiatry. Why are you singling out psychiatry here? Have you had a bad experience with a psychiatrist?

[wolf359]

Cardiology is subjective, but it's still measurable.

Psychiatry uses arbitrary measures. If somebody is simply not of a psychiatrist's ilk, they will make shaky conclusions and diagnoses. I don't believe it uses a rational process at all. Admit it lol.. psychiatry judges who is ill or not based on stupid criteria such as race, height, appearance, values, etc. They hate anybody who is non-religious, for instance lolol..

[Opinion Owner]

"... psychiatry judges who is ill or not based on stupid criteria such as race, height, appearance, values, etc. They hate anybody who is non-religious, for instance."

WTF! Where do you come up with this nonsense?

Your statements are so absurd, I'm honestly not sure whether you're just a troll or an absolute moron.

[wolf359]

Yes, you and the other anonymous guy are suggesting as such.

If you wish to justify an evil practice, that's your business.

[wolf359]

then prove me wrong. cite evidence that psychiatrists don't label people at whim?

[Opinion Owner]

You're the one making absurd claims, not me. I don't feel the need to prove anything. LMAO.

[wolf359]

Absurd? You're all stating that psychiatry is not exact and thus justifying abuse. You say harming others is an ill, yet many people harm others and are not ill. Not even murderers per se. I think essentially you believe you're untouchable lolol... So intelligent, yet you cannot reason out your beliefs/points properly. looll

[Opinion Owner]

Unbelievable...

[wolf359]

OK, this is why "psychiatry" says that some who go to clubs/bars are normal, and others are not? lolol.. You people or "psychiatrists" like to select who is or does what. Why must others accept your selections? If you claim to understand humanity so much, why must any human accept the word of another human?

[wolf359]

Unbelievable? Yes, psychiatry is. You are condoning arbitrary judgments and essentially saying "such is life".

[Opinion Owner]

OK, let's get to the facts. It's clear from your posts here and in other questions that you're a "little" off centre and very likely are or have been a psych patient. If not, you most certainly should be.

Regardless, why not share with us the reasons behind your illogical aversion? Have you had a bad experience with a psychologist or psychiatrist? What happened. Were you prescribed some meds that didn't sit well with you?

[Opinion Owner]

No one makes the illogical and outlandish assertions you have without a reason...what is it? Spit it out. What exactly is it that has so scarred you?

[wolf359]

Scarred? lolol... hell no. Psychiatry is evil, since it spreads evil in the world.

All other branches of medicine use objective criteria to determine who is sick or not. Psychiatry doesn't, since it solely depends on if a doctor "likes" a patient or not. This can't be the case if somebody has a rash, a stomach bug, or cancer, then this is more objective. psychiatrists abuse the inexact nature of their science.

[Opinion Owner]

Saying that psychiatry is an inexact science, and saying that psychiatrists abuse that fact to harm patients are two entirely different things. The first statement is true. The second one may be true of a few practitioners, but certainly not of most (99.9999999999999999%).

[Opinion Owner]

In all the BS you've written here you've said nothing that gives readers the impression that you are anything other that a nutter who has a bone to pick with psychiatrists because of a bad personal experience you've had. Until you can show otherwise, that's exactly what you are and nothing more.

[wolf359]

You're lying. I can sense it.

It's a fact that psychiatrists seek to abuse people, and it's silly to deny it.

Psychiatry should be BANNED, since it uses 19th century morality as its diagnostic basis.

Also, economics is an inexact science, yet this doesn't mean there are general principles. Yeah, so oligopoly represents exactly a million firms comprising an industry. go tell your uni's econ professors that and justify it by saying "it's not an exact science!"...

[wolf359]

And bullsh*t? haha.. I've never seen a psychiatrist in my life. I simply study their science and see the inherent evil in it.

It seems you're a practitioner, who is "offended" at my rebukes of your profession.

[Opinion Owner]

Nope, not a practitioner of any medicine or science. Just someone who knows a nutter when he sees one.

[wolf359]

lol.. I'm saying the truth. If you wish to condone a shady practice, so be it. I will call out psychiatry for what it is.

[Opinion Owner]

Nutter.