Is it normal to humiliate myself for weight loss?

[lamebabe]

I have been overweight for like a year. Earlier this year I was hitting the gym often for months but not seeing progress, and ended up stopping due to a number of reasons. Anyway, lately my boyfriend has been hinting a lot that he wants me to be fit/thinner and I want to be thinner too but it makes me feel really insecure and ugly to know that he's not happy with how I look now.
So now I'm really desperate to lose weight so he won't think other girls are so much prettier than me because they are thin (I have a pretty face). I started taking my ADHD medication which makes me not want to each much (which is great), and I've picked up a new habit of purposely trying to make myself feel bad so I can stay motivated to eat very little and to exercise. I like to google things (mostly forums) by guys, complaining about how much they hate fat girls and how gross we are, etc. I also like to try to catch my boyfriend looking at pretty thin girls and asking him about it. Like the other day we went to hooters and I asked him which girl he thought was hottest and he told me which one and said it was because she's really fit which makes her look extremely attractive. That made me feel like shit but it also helps. Is this normal/bad?

[lumos]

No, this is not normal and definitely not healthy.
You want to lose weight in order to be healthier? That's awesome. But you're not being healthy about it, mentally and physically. Motivation is important for sure, but it's supposed to FEEL GOOD. What you're doing is self-destructive, both to your mind and to your body. You need to learn how to love yourself no matter what you look like, and be healthy for YOU. Not for your boyfriend, not for the guys who whine on the internet, and definitely not to look better than the girls working at Hooters. You're setting yourself up for failure by not making YOU your biggest priority and source of inspiration and motivation.
What you're doing is basically taking the highway to hell: eating disorders. Starving yourself while exercising lots is not good for you. You need to have a balanced diet. If you don't, your body will slowly start to deteriorate, and you will end up getting various diseases and infections. It's NOT worth it in the long run. Eating disorders pretty much go hand in hand with depression too. Not good at all.
Your relationship with your boyfriend is toxic. He's being abusive. Of course he's allowed to look at other women and whatnot, but he's NOT allowed to tell it right to your face in order to make you work out more and make you insecure. That's pathetic and disgusting behavior on his part. And you're enforcing it by asking him questions about other women. That's not good at all. You need to dump his ass right now. Wanting to look good for your S/O is good and all, but your number one priority should still be YOU and YOUR own health. And what you're doing right now is NOT healthy.
You need to stop pressuring yourself and making yourself feel bad. That's not how long-term motivation works. It will only make you depressed, which will end up making you not feel like doing anything. You'll be back at square one in no time, but with a lot more problems than before. Go see a therapist, seriously.

[MaskedSanity]

I'm sorry, but you're dating a douchebag.

Why would you want to be with someone, who doesn't value you as much just because you gained a little bit of weight? As someone, who supposedly loves you, he sounds like a whiny little manchild. Oh no, my girlfriend gained some weight, boo-fucking-hoo.

Your partner is supposed to support you, not make you feel worthless. So what if you gained a bit of weight. You're still the same person. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't try to pressure you into losing weight, but actually give all the love in the world and be concerned about the HEALTH aspects of excess weight, rather than hotness.

Want to lose weight for yourself? Cool beans. Expect your partner to give some advice, coach you, support you, go exercise and do activities together, keep you motivated instead of making you feel like shit.

Your boyfriend is an asshole, who only cares about his own visual pleasure. Most people are sensitive about their weight, so going out and pointing at a fit girl and saying she's hot to your girlfriend who you KNOW FOR A FACT is self-conscious is a dick move.

Dump his sorry arse. You're worth better, than some self-absorbed little turd, who thinks it's cool to destroy his girlfriend's self-worth by gawking over other girls in public.

[lamebabe]

Is it still bad that he pointed her out if i asked him who he thought was hottest of the workers there?

[DodgersGM]

I agree. Kinda feel like I should have made a bigger point about the BF in my own post. He's clearly an unworthy ass.

[MaskedSanity]

And just to clarify: Yes, we all stare at attractive people in public every now and then, nothing wrong with that. Difference here is this guy is shamelessly doing it right in front of her and commenting on it. Not cool.

[lamebabe]

He was not really shamelessly *gawking* but of course if pretty girls are around, guys will look. Maybe something is wrong with me but I feel like it's normal to not be attracted to overweight-ness. It looks unhealthy and therefor unattractive. I'm not attracted to fat guys, so why should he be attracted to me being overweight? Isn't physical attraction important in a relationship?

[MaskedSanity]

You're encouraging his shallow behavior. If he had any brain cells at all, he'd realize you're being extremely self-conscious about how you look and know not to just go ahead, point at and describe why said girl was attractive.

Seriously, gurrrrl, you need to find someone who cares about YOU, not just your body.
"I will love you even if you get fat. If you want to lose some weight, I will be there to support you." <--- that is what my boyfriend told me and that is what a loving partner should say to someone, who feels like shit about themselves, not HURRRDEHURRRDURRRR DAT GIRL IS HAWT CUZ SHE FIT, YOU SHOULD LOSE SOME WEIGHT

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

I see. It's a projection. I knew I was missing something. I avoided hitting on the boyfriend point because I knew there was something tricky here. You're less worried about him leaving you for the weight and more concerned about your own outlook; while he probably did drop hints or whatever my guess is you're seeing, hearing, and sensing more than he is actually putting out. The logic connects in your language. It's not that he's necessarily shallow, it's that your vanity has taken a hit, and your ego is a little bruised by the reality. . .

Humans are curious beings!

[MaskedSanity]

Yes, physical attraction is important. For most people, initial physical attraction is what gets people together, but then you stay for the PERSON and if they struggle with something, you SUPPORT them, not just go "Welp, you fat now, so I'll keep highlighting that upsetting fact until you're skinny again, that should totally work!".

Lets turn the board around. What if he gained weight? Would you walk around and tell him how hot some guys are, because they're not as fat as he is?

[lamebabe]

Unfortunatemale, maybe you're right. Can you expand on that a little? You're both right in some aspects, I think. I know that he does love me very much and does not plan on leaving me or cheating. But he DOES hint at wanting me to lose weight, and I was not imagining what was said at Hooters.

[MaskedSanity]

Well of course her ego is bruised, it's pretty obvious from how she worded her question. If I gained weight, I'd be pretty bummed out too, even if I was single.
The boyfriend is not helping her self-image, though. The last thing an upset person needs is someone rubbing it in, especially when that someone is supposed to love you.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

It's not that you're imagining it. It's that you're chasing it. One of the key things none of us actually know is how much weight you gained so we're sort of on this teeter-totter of danger when it comes to passing judgment. If you gained a whole 5 pounds, he's horrible, but if you gained 30, that's a huge difference in standard to "Accept and encourage". I'm not saying that being rude is the way to go but instead that the reality is our judgments are clouded because we can't gauge accurately how much you weighed before, how much you weigh now, and what has really changed and how it has effected you. Smaller increases in weight can have huge effects on skinny people and shift standards drastically, for instance. As for the Hooter's scenario there's a lot there unsaid; you asked a question, he answered it, but did he ogle the woman or drop it? That's the unwritten language that matters a lot more.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

I hate passing judgment on people who can't speak for themselves or when the changes are unclear because really I sound like an idiot when I do so. I could say "He's stupid" but then what if you gained 50 pounds and used to be 90? That's a major difference. I could say "He's an ass" but really what if he actually isn't and really doesn't ogle women any more than any other man would? I could talk about him but what if he hasn't really shifted affection? Hell what if he is supportive and it's your projection that's covering that up? Saying "Honey, we should go for a run" isn't "BITCH YOU'RE FAT!" and I just lack the words to know what he actually thinks.

[MaskedSanity]

Thing is, though, even if she gained A LOT of weight, relationships involve caring for that person as a whole, not just their body.

Whatever he's saying is not encouraging, since she feels like self-humiliation is a good motivator.
"We should go for a run" is not the same as "That girl is hot, because she's fit *hint hint*".

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

We can't say that. Her language is the key as well as her behavior. She isn't giving us direct quotes from him at all, but instead talking mostly about herself and her outlook; she asked her boyfriend who he thought was hot in Hooters but never actually told us if he was ogling the woman to begin with. My guess is no. My guess is that her behavior was established out of frustration due to a lack of results and in-turn was externalized in a pain seeking and reinforcing behavior possibly based on something previous that worked in the past such as the common "If you don't get an A you're dumb" method.

Remember we have NO IDEA what he has actually said. That's the key. She sought to likely distract him, asking this question, hurting herself and his answer being "Only you" would have been more detrimental than his honesty. There's just so many unknowns that we're automatically being sexist assuming that he really doesn't say "Let's go for a walk" or something.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

The whole QA paragraph is vague. "A number of months?", if it's less than 4 she shouldn't expect to see great results. We don't know the frequency. We don't know what she ate. We don't know how she gained the weight. We don't know the shift at all, what she originally weighed or what she weighs now. We don't know what he actually is saying. We don't know if he's really being more or less rude. We don't know how the conversation in Hooter's really played out. Hell we don't even know how long they've been together.

All we know is she hates her shift in weight and somehow picked up this idea at some point to be negative in her reinforcement plans.

[MaskedSanity]

We don't know what he said, but it's definitely not lovely based on her description.

If she had positive support from him, she wouldn't rely on negative reinforcement.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Her description is poisoned. It's a projection so even if he did say "Honey let's go for a walk" the overall tone of the entire QA paragraph is negative. She says "I went for months with no result"; I admit the first thing I thought was that she had been doing it for 6 or 7 months and was just unfortunately aging. I had to take a step back to realize that "months" can mean twice a week for 90 days which is only a month and a half.

Also we're making too many guesses about her as a person. We're presuming she's not pessimistic. We're presuming she's not overly competitive. Her language is a sign of one or the other ( or both ) as she expresses this in this discussion where she's not really logically worried he will leave her but she is definitely competing for his attention. Against who? There's no indication from her that he's being less affectionate.

We've all had the "I'm X so no one will love me" mentality.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Correction, 24/90 is a 26% appearance rate over the duration of 3 months so it's not a month and a half (45 days). Sorry.

[lamebabe]

You're making it seem like I'm purposefully trying to slander my boyfriend, and that is absolutely not my intention. I am not a pessimistic person in general, nor am I an overly competitive person. I was going to the gym 3-4 times a week for 4 months and remained the same weight, give or take 5 lbs. I'm not going to start going back and forth and trying to defend myself to you here but there a period recently in which he did stop being as affectionate as he used to be- until I complained about it and he seems to be back to where he was in terms of affection. His comments about my weight are usually "playful" and like he's "just giving me a hard time" but it's not funny and it makes me feel inadequate.

And no, I did not ask him why he thought the girl was so hot.

[MaskedSanity]

I presumed she was pessimistic right from the start.

It's not his job to babysit her of course, but the opinion of a person who you care for can have a HUGE impact on one's self-esteem.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Finally, some tangible information. First, it's not about slander, I'm sure it doesn't irk you that complete strangers are calling your boyfriend a horrible person but that's whatever. I'm actually trying to defend your relationship and not take the "YOU SHOULD DUMP HIM, HE'S DUMB" route. Regardless a five pound fluctuation is noteworthy and important, if it went up you could be just aging ( no idea how old you are ), and if it went down whatever you were doing was working, just at a low rate, and finding out why that is would be key. It would explain why there were no major gains, what is working, what is not working, and if you followed a guide it would possibly point out what's going on medically.

As for the shift in affection if he was so quick to rectify it's likely not due to weight or appearance. Also at least now we know he's not sitting saying "YOU'RE A TOTAL FATASS" so we can stop with our stupid comments talking about how terrible he is for you.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Shifting back to you and finally off of your boyfriend, questions: How old are you? Does anyone within two generations of you have a curvier or weightier structure than you, specifically your older relatives on either your father or mother's side, preferably female (gene question)? How much do you weigh, how much did you gain, and generically how tall are you (BMI)? Yes, this is beyond the scope of your question, and if you only wanted to know if negative reinforcement is good for you: No, it isn't.

[lamebabe]

I'm only 23, so I don't understand why I was losing weight so slowly. It wasn't ever the case before. My mother's weight has always fluctuated between thick ish (flat stomach, thick thighs, big butt, thin arms) to borderline obese (starting when she was in her mid 20's)- she's now down to a women's size 10 in pants. Her mother was always really thin until she hit 60. I'm now 5'6', 173 lbs- my highest weight ever. I have a BMI of over 27. I was at 150/155, which according to the BMI scale is slightly overweight but I did not look fat.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

This changes everything. So there was a gain of 15 pounds over the course of some time, I'll presume about a year and a half or so? What's your dad's side like? It sounds like genetically, considering you're in your mid-20s, as was your mother when she shifted, and you seem to maintain a normal basal weight indicative of your mother's frame that you will be like her. Obviously full fam history, etc would help but I'll stop back from that, this IS the internet. However there is a very real explanation for why your losses were low: You were consistently gaining against them. Presuming your body would naturally expand it can expand up to 20~25lbs. in adulthood for females on average (last I checked, been a while) with inclusions for stressors such as college, etc. With your genes this could be higher or lower but with the stress you're experiencing it could be even worse. So essentially your body was storing up even if you were slimming down, countering.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Basically you were on track it's just that you were also fighting nature and nature has this awful tendency to win. Taking your body back, if I could say that, is just a matter of persistence instead of effectual methodology. Actually what I was saying before would work best for you; to manage your weight cut a few calories and work out as normal over a course of time, you will lose weight slower but it won't be so hard on you and your body will adapt setting your basal weight lower. Try to destress and be happy, even in the face of such issues, or at least live jovially and take what you can and be grateful for it. When you work out don't focus on a goal, this will be lifelong is my guess, so just do it as an act of maintenance like you would sweep the floor or something. Make it a habit instead of a chore.

[lamebabe]

I do appreciate your critical thinking, and advice. But my mom only started getting fat right after she gave birth to me. I don't have any children. My dad was tall and thin for a long time, but got fat due to his medication in his mid 30s.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

It's a combination of factors. The natural hormonal shift ( 150 + 20~25 for adulthood ) plus the propensity to gain weight ( mother ) is at play. You'll gain more if you get pregnant. It's not your father but your father's mother and sisters I'm interested in; it's possible that you inhereted that X as well, combine the two, you have a higher basal rate with a natural gainstreak. Easily explained.

[lamebabe]

My dad's mother, like my mom's mother, was also thin until old age. The women on my dad side are also "thick" or skinny-thick until they get pregnant- then they get fat. Getting old sucks.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

It does. So there's a good chance your age plus your basal weight is playing it's part. I know a fair number of women who have had this problem where pretty much suddenly over the course of a year or two it's as if for no reason really that they expand. Well, it's adulthood. Congratulations! Your body recognizes you as a REAL woman. You also happen to be around that last-ditch ( in your body's opinion ) birthing mode which increases your hormones. Basically your body is pissed at you in a way as well sort of letting itself go. Speaking of letting yourself go... how long have you been in this relationship? There's also a slight chance that hormonal changes from being in a relationship might be affecting you as well. So many fun factors but women in stable relationships do tend to gain weight.

[lamebabe]

Hm:/ That's a lot of stuff. We've been together nearly 2 years. I do take pride in my appearance. My hair always looks good, skin is good, makeup done well, and I dress well when I go out. But my life is more sedentary now, I guess. So basically my only hope would be to hit the gym again 3/4x a week, and after a year maybe I'll have lost 15 lbs?

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

You will lose your weight. You will also lose it in what will be a strange curve. You'll have trouble at first losing weight then it will begin to fall off of you. Your body will respond, positively, eventually to your efforts and not recognize them as some weird affront to nature but instead the norm and it will adjust accordingly lowering and managing hormones differently.

[lamebabe]

You've helped a lot. I'll think about that. Also, after getting all the details- is my boyfriend wrong for his behavior, in your opinion? I'm still on the fence.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

To answer that question it depends on two factors:

1. Did you tell him to not tease you? Express it upsets you. If he does beyond this then he's wrong.

2. Is he being malicious? While the first question addresses malice with intent this is more of general malice. He knows in general through common sense that it's probably not wise to make these comments and he does so anyway even after seeing you disgruntled, presuming you show that to him. If he does, he is wrong.

Otherwise he is in a gray area where we can state that he has not had fair exposure to the situation's reality ( that it's upsetting you A LOT rather than playfully poking fun ) and he may not be good at picking up on that.

[HandsomeRaj]

1. Let's begin with 'IT'S BAD'!!
2. Next you'll be looking for an abusive bf
3. You need self motivation and patience
4. You need to determine yourself first to get better self esteem rather than running around finding the easier way out - feeling demeaned and digging it further

Do all that sound like formal and rude? I don't intend it to be, when you understand the importance of determination, patience, perseverance and understanding you'll do a lot good for yourself :)

Feeling low and digging into it is the easiest thing to do, dig your heels in instead to change.

Set short time goals and achieve them. if one doesn't work then change over to another diet / exercise.

Understand one thing and that is the body gets used to a particular regime may it be diet or exercise after a point of time so it makes sense to vary both but by understanding in detail what works for you and what doesn't :) professional help should do good for this but for the way you look at yourself only you can help :) s

[Datbuffkid]

You gotta see a therapist about it. And ye agree with these guys here

[Susumi8]

I wouldn't think about what guys say as far as your weight. This should be about you and who you want to be. Instead of trying to lose weight to look like a gross hooters chick, lose weight so you can be awesome! Focus on being awesome by picturing yourself as like a ninja when you workout. You can't put off being the person you want to be til tomorrow, because change happens with constant persistence. Don't do weird diets, just eat healthy fruits and vegetables. Exercise all the time such as talking breaks to take a walk and taking the stairs. Every little bit helps. Once you establish good habits it will be MUCH easier to keep it up. I was a fat kid and lost all of my weight in high school ( 50 lbs) by giving up soda and running almost every day. I've gone through phases since then of putting on and off weight because life is always moving and its hard to stay consistent, but I've always maintained a healthy weight. Don't try to be gross skinny just for a guy! Just aim at the healthy BMI you apply to!

[Izzy2102]

No it's not normal and I think you need to talk to professional, you have a problem. I don't want to give you any ideas but I read this article about some supermodel once, who said she only eats naked because it makes her feel bad about eating, making her eat less. It's kinda the same thing, to a lesser extend that you're doing it.
So when I was trying to lose weight, I was trying to do the same thing she did, but it didn't work because I'm too lazy to even get undressed every time before eating something and quite frankly I didn't like feeling bad about myself. I think that's more of a normal reaction.

I get how you feel about being overweight, I've been there, but you can't make yourself feel bad about it every day.
As for your boyfriend, he sounds like douche. I don't know him tho and you said he loves you, so tell him. He can't know how it makes you feel unless you tell him. Maybe you got him wrong, maybe he wasn't implying that he wants you to lose weight at all. Either way, if he loves you won't encourage that kind of self destructive behaviour.

It's ok to want to lose weight (assuming you're actually overweight) but you have to do it the healthy way, which takes time.

[DodgersGM]

I'm not trying to make you feel any worse than you already do, but this is a terrible way to go about it. Even if you did succeed in the short term, ultimately you'll just put the weight back on because you never addressed the root of the problem. That and the fact that in order to succeed at this kinda thing, you really need to do it for yourself and you need to want it for yourself (and feel deserving of it!).

As for the actual weight loss, you need to start feeding your body with nutrient dense whole foods. Mostly plants. Calorie counting is extremely helpful too, but limiting your food intake to dangerously low levels is a slippery slope. Don't go down that road. Trust me, it won't give you the results you want, and you don't want to play with fire and develop an eating disorder.

Also, your boyfriend needs to calm the hell down and stop acting like an ass. He should be rooting for you to do this for your health. That's the most important thing here.

[bubbiexo]

This is a fantastic answer. The only thing I would add is that... You're going to damage your relationship in the long run as well. When you get to your goal, you will now have that worry about your boyfriend looking at other women and constantly feel like you're not good enough-- even though you are right now!!! Like DodgersGM said, do it for yourself.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

It is not normal. It is bad.

Humiliation is rarely a strong motivator. It builds stress which not only combats weight loss and healthy lifestyle but also has few long-term prospects. Achieving something for positive reasons also gives a greater value to it; for instance being healthy for the sake of being healthy lasts beyond your boyfriend while if your boyfriend broke up with you for whatever reason even if unrelated to your weight you'd lose your motivation immediately and backslide.

It's no different than yo-yo dieting because that's what drives yoyo dieting: Poor Reasoning.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Actually this is a really interesting sociological phenomenon.

Knowing nearly nothing about the situation we assume that the boyfriend is a dick. But why? She says he hints at it and we react as though he is saying "Bitch, you fat", which isn't a hint. She asked him explicitly to point out a hot girl in hooters and probably why she was hot and he answered honestly? He's a bad guy. Should have lied to protect her?

We presume he's not supportive, but don't actually know, but what is it based on? She speaks less about him than herself and her problem but we are taking more effort to judge him than to help her.

I'm totally bringing this up in class!

[harakiri]

You bring up a really interesting point... And this is the reason why I don't understand HOW men and women can be in relationships together. We speak in completely different languages. If her boyfriend had told her she was gorgeous but that she has to think about her health in the long-run, I'm certain she wouldn't be trying to humiliate herself into losing weight. When she asked him to point out the hottest server, he should have REFUSED, point-blank. There will always be someone more gorgeous, more smart, more funny, more handsome, etc. But you can't always make that so obvious to the partner you have decided to be with. Guys are painfully direct whereas girls, typically, take the longer route to a specific goal. If I was dating someone overweight, I would never EVER tell him 'I want you to lose weight' or 'That guy over there is so hot because he's so fit, don't you want to be like him too?' That's cruel to me.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

It's a bauble. If you're insecure the reality is that no one, partner of five minutes or five-hundred years, is going to make you feel "instantly better" and reaffirm your faith in all the puppies and kittens. The funny thing about insecurity, no matter who it is, and no matter what it's about, is that it's a lose/lose for the partner. They either play into the emotional traps (like her asking him this question) or, even in dodging, they play into the traps (refusal=avoidance=confirmation of suspicions!) so it's a choice between hell now and hell later. The different methods of communication don't really work; elongated and avoidant behavior leads to the same end-road.

The entire basis of GaGs existence is the idea that you cannot beat problems with some kind of crafty formula or hyper-intelligent wordplay. The fact that you wouldn't say it verbally doesn't mean you'd have the vigilance to never show it, and it just takes a crack in the mask for the dam of emotion to break free.

[confugirl]

You're going about this in the worst way possible. First of all, you need to love yourself to want to lose weight. Love yourself enough to want to be healthy. Second of all, you shouldn't starve yourself or exercise yourself to death. That is not good for long term weightloss and it sets you up for anorexia. You'll have to start eating sooner or later to avoid becoming malnourished and nutrient deficient, and when you do, you will gain back the weight again. Instead, try cutting out all sodas, sweets, breads and pasta's. Continue eating lean meat, vegetables and fruits. Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. If you don't adjust your diet, you won't lose weight and keep it off. Only exercise to tone up. Never exercise to lose weight, because then you'll have to exercise at that intensity for the rest of your life to avoid gaining weight.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

I have a question for you: Where did you get this "weight loss" ratio of 80/20 for food/exercise? I hear it a lot on the airwaves but it I don't think it's true. While reducing calorific intake is important changing the foods you intake matters far less. 300 calories in sugar is 300 calories bread.

Now I believe that of the two when combined exercise is far more important than diet,, and that diet needs to be separated from calorific intake; 600 calories in cucumbers is 600 calories in beer for instance. It's harder to hit the first, but it's the same thing, and I think that's where people really go wrong. It's more of a 90/10 process with exercise/food because while it matters that you eat fewer calories it doesn't really matter how you intake those calories.

[CelticJonny]

I've always thought it was 80/20 too if you want to loose weight - if you want to bulk up it's 20/80 (and that 80% is mostly steak!)

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

This is also why both fail when relied heavily upon alone. If you try to out-exercise your calories without any changes in intake values you'll likely lose because exercising just makes you hungrier so a long-term decrease has a substantial effect. However if you try to diet away your weight through changing the intake of food but maintaining the calories nothing happens, 1 = 1, etc.

I say this because when people say it's 80/20 this is probably because when you change your diet it is difficult, not impossible, but difficult to maintain the same calorific value so in a sense you're just lowering your calories which gives that prolonged effect which is a separate effect from diet itself.

[confugirl]

Calories are not made equal. That's one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Fibers, proteins and fats help us to feel fuller longer. Unlike if you drank the same calories in Coca Cola. You would be hungry again immediately. If you eat something more nutritious, you won't need to eat as much. So it does matter what you eat. Also, people who live solely off fruit eat about 3000+ calories a day and lose weight off of it. The fiber also helps to reduce how much sugar is converted to fat. Refined calories, like from sodas and sweets, go directly to the fat storage, because they have no substance that prevents them from doing so and they're too easily digested.

And we're not talking about bulking up here, we're talking about losing fat. Don't go off topic. It's a different procedure.

[confugirl]

You are dangerously misinformed. This is what fuels the obesity epidemic. When people don't realize that the food you eat matters. They think starving themselves while continuing to eat the same foods is the only way to lose weight. Not only is it not the only way, it's also the least productive way, since that weight will come bouncing back when you decide to eat normal again. And you will, because such a low calorie intake is not sustainable, it will make you tired and malnourished. Basically creating the yoyo effect.

The best way to lose weight is to replace your unhealthy food with whole foods.

www.webmd.com/.../all-calories-not-created-equal-study-suggests

Read up on it instead of spreading this dangerous and useless information.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

No, see, that's exactly the thing. Calories ARE equal. Fibers make you feel fuller so you eat fewer calories but it's not the calories that change. I read your link and A) it actually says at the end that it was only a 90 day study and B) the concept that is written aligns with what I said. It's the metabolic value and effect of what you eat, not the calorific value of the food itself, so when you eat fibers and feel more full you naturally decrease calorie intake as opposed to drinking sodas because you feel fuller faster.

This is exactly what I mean. Looking at this critically you have proven that the exercise portion is far more important; the weight loss experienced in the study you posed shows a metabolic differential, which is great, but directly says this, "[Ludwig] says while people often lose weight on very-low-fat and very-low-carbohydrate diets, the vast majority end up gaining the weight back very quickly."

It's just not the way to go. This is what fuels the

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

epidemic. The food you eat for the most part is not the key to losing weight. Deficiency dieting is a horrible idea because you gain the weight back! The reason it's more important to cut calories and maybe change a few habits slowly instead of quickly is to avoid the starvation phase; it is better or you to stop eating as much food but eat the same things over the course of 6 months than it is for you to stop eating A FOOD quickly and experience yo-yo loss and gain. What's ironic is your source does not back you at all. We're actually in agreement also; as I said cutting your calorie intake is the key so eating whole foods which fill you faster naturally cuts your intake. That is NOT the same as saying "exercise matters little, diet is everything".

[confugirl]

But we DON'T agree. You say eating the same foods, but cutting back on calories is the best. I say eating whole foods, which fill you up, and eating them to your heart's content is best. Now which do you think is better? I think the better one is the diet where you don't starve yourself. But if you continue consuming sodas and sweets, only in lesser amount, you WILL be starving all the time. And the diet will not be sustainable. What is so hard for you to understand?

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Also as an add-on I want to be very careful when it comes to statements like "More Nutrition = Less Calories"; it's also not true. Lots of highly nutritious foods contain a lot of calories and do not necessarily have filling components. Fruit is one such category. You can eat tons of fruit over the course of a day ( figuratively ) and never feel full. Carb rich foods and fiber rich foods, usually one in the same, can be ingested at much lower rates and intervals with high effect on fullness though. The body is like a baby, and hunger is like crying; you will hunger if your body is missing something ( thus the yo-yo ) so keeping weight off requires a balanced diet, not A DIET, and food should be measured in how it meets your needs and it's calories not in whether it meets a statistical need. 600 calories is 600 calories. How the food is digested or registers (fiber, for instance ) is a separate issue.

[confugirl]

It's not a separate issue, it makes all the difference in the world. A balanced diet does not include sodas and sweets, which is what most people eat. It requires whole foods, which contain nutrients and are not just empty calories. Like I said, continuing to eat junk food, but cutting back on it a little bit will leave you feeling hungry. Eating whole foods will naturally make you want to cut back on calories and will not leave you hungry.

[confugirl]

By the way, fruit contains far less calories than what we normally eat and its calories also don't go into the fat storage as easily. You would have to eat fruit until you puke before you'll get fat on it. So good luck with that.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Oh that's not true at all. Sugars can be acquired from many sources and some sweets aren't bad. Yes, cutting all of these values down is a great idea, but a bag of Skittles once a week is not what will make or break you. It's this belief that if you sit on your ass and eat a bag of "Whole Grain" chips a day you will lose weight that causes problems because people are, by and large, even in the medical profession on the fence for nutritional guidelines. There is no "one universal answer". The reality is two-fold: 1. People eat "Really Healthy" junkfood now and 2. People don't work out and remain sedentary. Cutting your calories will create a slow and natural decline in weight but your metabolic rate is far more stably and greatly effected by your activity levels.

Hunger is part of the equation, I agree wholeheartedly with you, but this emphasis on diet is unhealthy.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

You will do more for yourself cutting back 100 calories and exercising lightly for 20 mins. a day with an unhealthier diet than you will by shifting to a healthier diet cutting back 300 calories and sitting on your butt. Changing your metabolism using food just doesn't work, it doesn't promote muscular growth, it doesn't health, it promotes bodily starvation, and while the chemistry produces results immediately the same effect can be seen in drug users because it's the same effect: Chemical alteration. It has no long-term, long-lasting benefits. Exercise does. Running for a year at 3 hours a week with a slow decline in calories and change to diet will get you further down the health path than trying to "Stop, drop, and roll" your foods.

[confugirl]

Oh really? Because I know a lot of people, including myself, who lost all their weight only because of a diet change. I never said to cut back on calories, I just said to eat foods that don't have sugars which directly go into your fat storage. Like fruits and vegetables have fibre, which requires energy to digest and won't go into your fat storage.

I also said to eliminate ALL junkfoods. There is no such thing as healthy chips. There's no such thing as healthy fried food. Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. One Skittle pack a week won't make you gain weight, but one Skittles pack a day will.

Also, what you eat can also affect your metabolic rate. By eating more fibre, your metabolism will become better. Exercise is the one thing that has no long term effects. What if you're unable to exercise after an incident or you become old or you get a desk job? Your logic is only applicable to those who literally have all day to exercise.

[confugirl]

Cutting out all bad foods at once without cutting out calories is a better way to lose weight. It will not leave you hungry, it will provide you with more fiber which speeds up your metabolism and doesn't allow as much sugar to be absorbed. Refined sugar and fruit sugar are not the same because of the fiber, it makes all the difference in the world. You get to eat just as many calories, which won't make you gain weight. But you most likely won't feel like eating as many calories, because the nutrient dense food will be more filling. So tell me again, how exactly continuing to eat empty calories while exercising your ass off is sustainable? Because the hunger is what makes a diet unsustainable, in case you didn't know.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Lots of fruits are high in sugars though. This is what scares me. Your diet change is probably due to taking in fewer calories. That's how you lose weight, you either burn more or take in less, simple math, but people talk about cutting sugars but one of the greatest places to get sugar? Fruit. Also your metabolism handles the fat storage element directly so that means your activity level does. Please don't mistake me for saying it's impossible, it isn't, it's just generally unsustainable or less effectual than if you put heavier emphasis on exercise.

By the way 1 package of reeses peanut cups has 20 grams of sugar. 1 cup of grapes has 15. Eating more than one cup of grapes is also relatively easy. I bring this up because when we talk about nutritional value we don't think like this.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

We compare falsely. A snickers bar is 18g grams, sugar in a decent sized apple not including the core? 23g. There's a lot more to it than "avoid, avoid, avoid!" and an apple a day, ironically, is worse than some forms of candy a day, so where lies the real value? How it impacts your willingness to take in more calories. A snickers won't fill you like an apple will.

It's so dangerous how people put so much emphasis on avoiding movement when really the greatest impact lies in activity level for all persons universally. Obesity is an epidemic because we're sitting typing angrily at each other about food instead of walking to the grocery store and back when able.

[confugirl]

Sugar in fruit is not the same as sugar in fruit. Hence, calories are not created equal.

"Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored."

healthyeating.sfgate.com/...efined-sugar-8174.html

Your ideas are all fine and good in theory, but in reality, they just don't work.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

"How it impacts your willingness to take in more calories. A snickers won't fill you like an apple will."

You posted an elongated version of this sentence. The sugar and how it is handled is exactly the same, it's the fiber that changes things, thus why FiberOne became so very popular even though it's practically a hoax.

As I said before we're not really disagreeing. We might be talking past one another but all of our facts are leading up to the same conclusions.

[confugirl]

"preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored"
You missed that part. Which is what this is all about. And please explain to me how we're not disagreeing and why you're still arguing with me if you think we're not disagreeing?

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

"Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar," fiber does more than one thing. The apple is multi-functional, but the mainstay of fiber's job isn't to prevent sugar, that's just an interaction, because all chemicals in the body interact, it's to add that feeling of fullness. The reality is that FiberOne is a sham because that fact is not a factor that is as strong as people understand. It doesn't "prevent", that's a lie, it "inhibits". There are few things in chemistry that outright prevent an action any many that inhibit them; this is proven true in diabetics. High sugar fruit are not recommend for severe diabetics, regardless of their fiber amounts, because it's just not that great of an effect.

Now we're sort of hashing out details on how things really work. Most of the things you are saying are true but it's the impact, the actual extent of effect, that is falsified.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Basically everything you're saying about food and the food facts are fine. It's the statement that diet = Win and working out is marginally important and only for "toning" that's just not correct. Even if you wanted to that they are both equally important you'd be closer to the truth than the suggestion that sedentary dieting is more functional than increasing activity with a bad diet.

[confugirl]

Fruit diets have been known to cure diabetes, so you're way off. And yes, diet IS more important than exercise. In fact, exercise is not at all needed to lose weight. As testimony, you could use all the people who are too lazy or busy to exercise and have lost weight. It's as simple as that. We want results, not just theory.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Okay, we're not going to go into Diabetes because I specified a very specific group of diabetics and there's a wide range of them. Some diets can cure T2 diabetes depending on the severity so again, no doubt you're right, but you're also not "completely right". A lot of this seems to be a problem of scope. A general statement about a multifaceted disease is not going to make sense.

Also exercise isn't needed to lose weight. I didn't say it was. You will lose weight if you just don't eat. I don't think anyone is confused about that. The statement that not exercising and that diet is the main component however has yet to be defended. It's just not true. The reality is you keep alluding to really bad examples; yo-yo dieting is such a problem because of this mentality: "Barbara did it, she didn't lift a finger, just stopped eating (whatever), you can too!"

You sound more like a marketer than a person concerned for health and general longevity.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

There are two things that dictate your basal weight. The first is your brain. The second is a combination of intake and outgo for calories ( plus other special factors ). Looking at the first if your base was 130 then you will lose weight easier the further you are from this base. So eating even a slight difference in calories will help a lot. The second factor resides in your behaviors. Realistically what is actually happening when you diet and exercise is you are actually increasing one number, the amount of calories lessened per day. The health benefits behind exercise outweigh the basic benefits of dieting, for one, you get stronger, last longer, etc. versus just having a decently clean system but making no gains insofar as actual fitness. Next we take note that it is easier to burn more calories through exercise than to avoid calorie intake. Easiest way to prove this is to take the stairs instead of starving yourself. You will not necessarily feel the burn of the stairs at

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

one time but you will feel the full effects of hunger in that moment. You don't have to particularly work out "harder" than other people to lose weight, not at all, but maintaining sedentary status is sort of self-defeating because your metabolic rate stays low, you have an easier time over time burning calories off when stationary when you do raise your metabolic rate, and it is one of the few ways you can alter to some degree your basal weight while dieting will not alter your basal weight by as much, it will not make you healthier, it does not increase burn during sedentary moments, and ultimately it does not have the same long-term goals nor does it work as a means of lifelong deterrent. It is easier to get into the habit of doing things than restricting things, for humans, and one is positively reinforced while the other is negatively reinforced. It's a bad system.

People make tons of money because it provides instant results, no problem, but no long-term investment value.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

Let's look at that actually. How the market works: The truth is that the diet market works by simply not working. You do it, you lose weight, it comes back; Jenny Craig, etc. works through a long-term commitment and help group and works at higher rates than Atkins because in Atkins you basically sit and Yo-Yo. You jump from one diet to another, one promise to another, and if you look carefully a lot of these diets are managed by the same people.

The exercise industry works conversely. It presumes you will fail, you won't dedicate yourself, and you're a fat and lazy slob. And they are right. The prevalent mentality is "I don't have to work out" so when you're 40lbs overweight trying to do Insanity, which is made for people who are conditioned, you'll fail. You buy that yoga tape, but you don't do it, so you fail. You sign up for the gym, it's a one year contract, they average about 2 months of use out of those contracts. You fail.

[confugirl]

And here you are, again assuming that all calories are made equal. I won't even bother responding to you anymore, because you can clearly not be helped. Nor can you separate theory from actual results. Good day sir.

[Cheeky_Unfortunate]

So long as you aren't able to spread inaccurate information I'm content.

[findingdreamland]

Come on girl. To obtain a thinner body is easy but to obtain a pretty face is difficult! And you have it already!

And believe me physical appearance is nothing. Do you have a kind heart, do you hurt people easily? That counts.

And I don't understand your boyfriend. What is wrong with him? Why does he make you unhappy? Before going diets etc, you should reconsider your relationship. We love men, because they make us valuable. So your boyfriend? Speak with him. Tell him how much it hurts. This is not fair.

And being overweight, it is not healthy. You can have cardiac diseases, tension problems etc. Lose them for your own good. There are good trainers, doctors that can help you.
There is always a solution, don't forget.

[BlueEyedHipsta]

yeah you need a motivation, but you shouldn't change yourself for anyone but yourself. Honestly your boyfriend needs a whack around the ears, he shouldn't even be thinking about other girls let alone looking at them and you shouldn't encourage him your basically asking him to break up with you. Which is what you should be doing to him, a boyfriend is suppose to love you no matter your size, or how much you change physically, think about; he'll probably run home t his mum and hide if you get pregnant because he doesn't want you to be fat. Bottom line you should encourage yourself with positive thoughts, behavior, and people. Take the negativity out and you'll get more positive results.

[CelticJonny]

"I also like to try to catch my boyfriend looking at pretty thin girls and asking him about it."

Why? Even if you're the fittest girl on the planet your partner will probably still admire other girls from a distance, and vice versa I'm sure! This isn't cheating... women do much, much worse each time they visit their male gynecologist!

As for weight loss, I've lost 20kg in the last 12 months - I know this sounds silly but I just ate a bit less and more fruit/ veg. I feel better in myself and my life but I did it for me, not for my partner...
... however, I am fully aware that I do have a responsibility to my partner to not let myself go!

Good luck - and stay positive.

[LittleSally]

No, this isn't normal. Your boyfriend is a huge idiot and you should dump him immediately! Now!
Maybe out up some posters of bodies you admire and try to work out towards that goal. Eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, protein is also very important, eat less carbohydrates... Just take it one day at a time. You will see results and feel great about yourself.
If I haven't stressed this enough, dump that loser NOW.

[Anonymous]

The way you get thin is up to you, whatever works as long as it's not hurting anyone.. but in this case it is :( YOU.. it's not the normal kind of motivation and not really a healthy one.
Also, I don't think you and him are compatible in the long run. It's fine if he wants you to be healthy and fit.. but he needs to also be fine with you not being so fit.. for better or worse right? just my thoughts.
Stop trying to please him at such a great cost to your mental and emotional health. Do what you want for you.
Honestly, don't you think you'd be much happier without this relationship? That way, you could get fit at your own pace and for you.. not for someone else.. and not to "keep your man".