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Why Men Are Avoiding Marriage [And it's NOT due to Laziness] (Page 4)
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what a bunch of bullshit
like man if you don't like or don't want marriage why bother with it?
focus on things you enjoy in life
and you'all guys need to develop your emotional intelligence, it's sad
emotional intelligence is worthless, women would need to evolve your intelligence in general, however unfortunately that isn't possible.
@alphadoggystyle fyi without emotions you wouldn't actually be able to make resonalbe decisions
I didn't say emotions where worthless, but the thing you refer to as emotional intelligence is not really a thing, if you are intelligent you are intelligent. if emotional intelligence simply means to be social, then guys dont need to develop it, since being good in social situations is more about logic and trying to read the personality of people around you and being rational, the same way making wise decisions are more about being logical rather than making them based on your emotions/feelings.
@alphadoggystyle i agree w that, what i meant is that they use logic that lacks better understanding of values and emotions
On the other hand girls need to work on realizing that they need to get more tough minded; and no they are not dumb that they couldnt be able
Naturally not everyone is like that but it is most common therefore saying how guys are more rational and therfore 'more intelligent' while often they are not cause of disregarding of emotions
While girls often feel without being able to explain (therfore seeming less rational and dumb) but that often proves to be more intelligent and mature decision
nope, the logic most guys use in general take values into account and also we understand how our actions can make someone else feel. Men have no issue with that. Women however have an issue communicating their emotions and they think when someone cannot read their mind they lack "emotional intelligence" which is complete bullshit.
And you are completely wrong on the last part as well, the decisions women make are usually not nearly as mature or intelligent compared to the decisions men make, and thats because its a fact that men on average are far more rational and logical, those factors lead to far more intelligent and mature decisions compared to decisions based on emotions. So yeah, most signs point to the fact that men are more intelligent than women.
@alphadoggystyle
personally I'm pretty straightforward and don't expect anyone to read my mind nor I'd call that emotional intelligence
I don't deny the fact that some women expect guys to read their mind but that is as I said due to their own lack of understanding of their own emotions, but not all women are like that
making such a claims shows you obviously don't understand women proving that your understanding of values and emotions is not as high as you think, and as is said is case with many men
the truth is that intelligence and talents are not actually gender defined
Lol, you basically confirmed what i said that many women behave like that, nowhere did i say that all of them are like that, just a very large quantity. So obviously my claims prove i do have an understanding of values and emotions of both women and men, because of my logical reasoning. You are just failing to see that. Mens decisions are usually more mature and intelligent compared to the decisions women make, due to women being more emotional when they make decisions. This is fact.
@alphadoggystyle I didn't said many, I said some women act like that
what you said is not a fact and that is what I am arguing - the understanding of importance of emotions. Someone being more emotional doesn't necessarily make the decision of that person less intelligent. Understanding of emotions and values is not some mathematical equasion to solve, it doesn't work that way. In order to fully understand emotions and values you have to feel them and allow ysf to feel them. Men often deny emotions cause that is expected of them, and they think emotions makes them weak when in fact it limits them. I don't deny you use emotions in your logical thinking but the understanding of value of those emotions you cannot have to it's right level since you do not allow ysf to feel them as women do. It is apsolutely dumb to say men are more intelligent from women cause women allow themselves to feel. No gender is more intelligent than another as I said.
the point is that many women do let their feelings influence their decisions, you claim it is "some", but the fact is that it is many many women who do this. And wrong again, what i said previously is definitely fact. Emotions are not important when making decisions, the less emotion you feel when making important decisions, the more logical and rational you will be. Because emotions are subjective, what you feel at a certain moment may change back and forth without any logical reason due to the fact that our emotions are largely affected by our hormones. Just like a computer the body is not perfect, it will sometimes produce more or less hormones even when the situation does not call for it and that can lead to a contrast of the emotions caused by the situation and environment, and the emotions caused by the hormones.
So the less you let emotions affect your decisions, the more logical and rational you will be able to be, and logic is universal unlike emotions which is subjective.
So no, saying men are more intelligent than women is not dumb, it is fact. And men being more logical and less emotional compared to women is just one of the many reasons why men are factually more intelligent.
@alphadoggystyle Emotions are not important when making decisions, the less emotion you feel when making important decisions, the more logical and rational you will be - this thinking is like saying sociopaths are most intelligent people, exactly what you are wrong at; that is why robots cannot replace humans
the problem is there are many emotions that we haven't classified, not all fickle, some are like being angry, other are like being in love, or feelings of trust etc. and we put it all in the same box
you are so sure of your reasoning, allow ysf some dubt, you don't know everything and maybe u just don't understand women. You tend to as many men also have problem with your ego to get to the truth. Like you don't know all women on the planet but are just limited to your own experience and cannot even call that majority. You basically say men make better decisions than women - not true
I mean you are entitled to your own opinion
good luck thinking women are dumber than men
Nope, im 100% correct and you are 100% wrong. You dont need to feel any emotion at the moment you make a decision, you also dont need to be emotional to understand other peoples emotions, you can base it on earlier experiences. Your own emotions can often have nothing to do with the people that will be affected by your decisions, which is why you shouldn't let them affect your decision.
You are making the mistake of assuming that just because you aren't emotional or feeling emotional at the moment of decision making, that this means you dont have any emotions at all.
All humans have emotions to some degree, even sociopaths, the difference is that sociopaths dont actually care or feel empathy for other people to different degrees, but they can still feel other types of emotion, and many of them can still understand and predict what emotional reaction they will get from others based on their own actions and decisions. Thats why psychopaths are often considered intelligent.
Men are factually more intelligent than women and tend to make better decisions than women do, and these differences have been proven by historical events as well as scientific studies. Nobody can speak for all people but we still have to base our worldview on the science that is available, and the science we clearly show men to be more logical and rational which is very important for making decisions, we have other studies which show men to have significantly larger brains on average compared to women, and around 5 iq points higher on average. there is a lot of evidence, which you are ready to dismiss just because you dont like the results.
@alphadoggystyle what is most affecting a person is their personal experience based on how they felt and often it's needed for people to understand, but I haven't said always and sometimes only to the ceratin degree not fully. Nor I said you have to be consumed by emotions in the moment of making decisions.
Noone denies psychopats are intelligent but only on that level you present it at - but the point it that their decisions are actually not inelligent ones exactly cause of their lack of emotions!
100% sure lol the level of your ego
also historically women haven't really been in position to prove themselves and just lately they got the chance to get in higher positions; so that science research lacks many things taken into consideration as many research does cause you cannot predict all that affects what is being observed. Larger brain and that proves what? Men are generally larger. There are retarted men w larger brain than any normal woman.
you simply dont get it, You dont need to feel anything in the moment you make decisions, you dont need to feel to act based on logic and reason. So even a man with aspergers will still have emotions, but will not make his decision based on his own emotions, but will still be aware of how whatever he does might affect others because of his past experience with people.
So no, psychopaths are simply intelligent, just because they dont feel emotions the same way we do does not mean they lack "intelligence" in that area, emotions are based on instinct and hormones, you cannot control how you will feel but you can control how you will let these emotions affect your actions, so the main difference between women and men is that men have more control of how they let their emotions affect our decisions.
Women have had equal opportunity for many decades now, but still only represent a really small minority of all patents and innovations being created. And even when accounting for body size men still have larger brains compared to women, and dont try to act like it means nothing. size is not everything but it is definitely a factor when it comes to intelligence.
@alphadoggystyle
I already said you don't have to feel emotions in exact moment you make decisions, it's about the fact that you experienced them
psychopaths don't have understanding of emotions as many normal people do cause they cannot feel them so they make actually unintelligent choices like kill someone who is blocking them to their goal; and that is why they are intelligent only in the way of mind as manipulation and practical thinking cause lack of emotions allow them get higher in mental department and only that which is actually only what you call intelligence
Women have had equal opportunity for many decades now - I disagree and even if that was true it could only be small portion of the world; women are not as taken seriously and it's a lot of it a social issue which again is part of emotional intelligence for you to understand
Historically men also made intelligent decisions hence wars, Hitler, Stalin etc.
Also IQ only measure logic and intelligence you talk about but not emotional intelligence which is exactly what society is denying and not giving it's right amount of importance
Look, I'm saying yes you have as many man emotional intelligence but the level of it tho is what needs work on
And women are more supported in emotional intelligence but they need more to work on practical thining about what men are more supported
Yes many men are good at practical thinking but that is not higher intelligence, that is just one type of intelligence
But that is where you fail to understand what i am saying, the main difference between men and women, is that women make their decisions often based on what they feel in the MOMENT, Men who are very logical and rational all have and experience feelings like a normal human being, its just that they dont let those feelings cloud their judgement unlike women.
Makority of pshycopaths are not murderers, because even if they might want to kill someone for a specific purpose they understand that killing someone ultimately has big consequences and as they often are analytical they won't risk it in most cases. So very rarely will they make such an unintelligent choice, in fact it is far more common for an emotional person who is riled up in the moment to make a decision they later regret, decisions and actions that sometimes ending up in murder.
And no, you cannot use that excuse, sure women still do not have equal opportunities in countries such as the middle east, but that is irrelevent here as vast majority of patents and inventions are created in countries where women have equal rights and opportunities (such as western countries). Women simply are not performing as well as men even though they are being encouraged in every way possible with scholarship funding, quotation, feminist education system and propaganda etc.
In the end you are still wrong, emotional intelligence is not important, because you fail to even define what emotional intelligence is. the type of intelligence displayed by typical male leaders and scientists is the highest level of intelligence we have witnessed in our human race, there is nothing women have that compares to that. Its biology and evolution, there is a natural reason why this type of sexual dimorphism exists in us as a species.
I'm not here to continue this ignorant gender war i see in the comments, I agree with this comment as long it has to deal with everyone (men and women alike.) from "and you'all guys"
@alphadoggystyle well we already agreed to disagree so as I said good luck thinking women are dumber than men, obviously no point in draging this any further
devillish what do you mean by emotional intelligence?
@lacorine197 by emotional intelligence I mostly meant to use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior. Society presents emotions as something weak but it's totally looked wrong upon. People should have better appreciation of emotions of other people, know real importance of values like family, love, friendship cause those things are what fullfill people most, not inventions like vhiacles or math and practical thinking (but still important as well for sure). Bottom line, we just all need to be kinder to each other and realize importance of that rather than step on everyone to advance in our career. Being financially independent is important but that is like food to survive and social relationships are like food for soul, the only thing really worth living for.
i doesn't matter if you disagree, what i said is fact. Women are dumber on average than men, and the smartest genious level people in this world throughout history are almost exclusively men.
by the way your whole description of emotional intelligence is laughable, If someone appreciates family values, friendships, love etc or not has nothing to do with the intelligence of that person, even an complete idiot can have appreciation for those sort of things, same with mentally retarded people, those kinds of things have to do with a persons personality traits, not his/her intelligence. And you cannot compare things like love and friendship to things like math and practical thinking, love and friendship are things humans instinctually want because it is driven by all living organisms ultimate goal of procreating and passing on its genes. Of course there are exceptions as all humans dont want to procreate but majority wants to, but there is nothing impressive about a human to feel emotion, we are designed to do so, inventing things and creative thinking however is something only a small subset of the population are able to do, and it is a result of higher intelligence.
@alphadoggystyle I see no point of our discussion. You give your arguments I give mine, and we both disagree. It can go on for ages. I don't seek to win arguments but the truth and entertaing my thinking. You keep on saying it's a fact, that how it is - like no, you cannot claim that. I can twist all your arguments as you can mine. Eg. you say women make decisions by emotions in the moment unlike men; then you say murders are commited mostly by emotional people like that, yet murderers are mostly men. Obviously that logic doesn't add up. Also historically women did make a difference look it up, but in quite fewer notes since they had less rights than men. Historically "anonymous" was mostly woman. Also have you watched movie "big eyes"? watch it, you have such a prejudice of women, it's really sad. And that is sad in out society, men that think they are higher species, ego of the moon.
there is no point of further discussion since you have already lost the argument. And yes what i said is fact and i can say that, you arguing against it makes you factually wrong.
I never said all murders are done by emotional people and regardless emotions are not enough by themselves to commit murder, you also must be willing to take the risk of doing so (and studies show men are more willing to take risks than women) and you also cannot be afraid of conflict or violence. Women who might want to kill or abuse someone but are not physically capable of it is the main difference that leads to the majority of homicides being commited by males. Women are still more emotional even though there are many different types of emotions, while women are more emotional overall in that they will make choices mainly based on what feels good for them personally, regardless of the facts, while men are probably angry or enraged more often than women are.
I never said women didn't make any impact in history, only that it was very insignificant, and while men had a few more rights than women overall in history, they also all had significantly more responsibilities than women had. And it was still only small number of people regardless of gender that had the opportunity to invent things, it was mostly upperclass people, and upper class women had more opportunity to come up with some discoveries if than the average middle or lower class male, even if they werent encouraged to do so, most inventors made their discoveries without encouragement, they managed to do so just because they where curious and ambitious on their own. And no there is no proof most of the anonymous inventors where female, there where plenty of reasons to remain anonymous as many inventions could have been in conflict with established industries or the church for example. Regardless, majority of inventors and intellectuals are male by a huge marigin.
you may look at this as men having big egos, but respect is not just given, it is earned, most people regardless of what they say still look at every person differently to some degree, they value them differently, they consider some smarter than others, some stronger than others etc, they dont give every person the same ammount of respect so they technically nobody treats everyone like we are all equal, thats to be expected if you are thinking logically. Why would a criminal be looked at as equal to a doctor? and of course some times there is prejudice based on past behaviour that makes us respect some groups more than others, which gives certain groups a better image than others, regardless of how wrong that might be, people still do it as it is natural, thats how our brain reasons. men are going to look at women as inferior since women has underperformed in so many areas for all of history. and we are reminded daily that women are not as mentally or physically strong as men.
@alphadoggystyle
I dont agree what u said and have no intention of arguing about it further. Its not a competition as men like you want to make it.
I think we shouldn't earn respect but be all respected for being human; for me respect can only be lost.
Lets respect the fact that we disagree and leave it at that.
i dont care if you agree or not, i know what i said is based on fact. All humans in an ideal society will be equal before the law, but humans can never be all equal to each other in terms of capability, there is high variability in terms of achievment, success and skill and ability. Men surpass women in general in all these criteria, so to expect men to give the same respect to women as they give to other men is not realistic, and will never happen.
We can leave it at that.
Cohabitation is pretty much the same thing, just easier to walk away from. Where did you get your stats from on better chances of staying together? In fact stats reported from Wikipedia say the opposite. You have double the chance of splitting if you never marry your live-in partner.
You see that is the point people today want the easy way out. They want to be able to leave with no ties. That's not true commitment. Feminism has ruined things in my opinion. I'm all for equality and a 50%/50% relationship but two bulls will always fight. I feel a man should always take the lead while his woman stands at his side.
@MzRoze nicely stated.
All the people here who've never been married, are against marriage, and all of those who've never had kids, are against having kids. There. Do you see the pattern? They've never experienced it. But ask those who've experienced either one of them. Nobody regrets it. They might regret not having the right partner, or not having the right resources for raising kids, but once they've experienced it, nobody ever regrets the idea of marriage itself or ever regrets having kids.
I never had kids, yet I'm not against having kids, I've never been married and I wouldn't want to be married, do you see the pattern? NO. Stop generalising and start understanding your opinion doesn't mean dogshit, which is why you had to go anon to post this.
So your the type that must experience something to make a consensus on something like marriage. Personally I just think marriage disrupts the balance of power. It sets expectations which can lead to taking people for granted. It also takes away a mans chips so to speak. A mans only real power in a relationship is to take away everything he puts into the relationship. How can a man check his girl if he's already told her that no matter how much shit you put me through Ill never leave. It's truly outdated as a concept, the roles were defined entirely by men. Now that equal rights has taken root, I think if you want a relationship to actually sustain in the 21st century, marriage should be avoided.
@NoFcks2Give Truth has been spoken.
I think now of a day's its just hard finding decent people to marry even more so if their parent's are too involved in their lifes. I once dated a girl i almost married but then her parents decided i wasn't good enough for her and made our relationship a living hell. They end up forcing her to break up with me all she did was cry for 2 months n half then moved on. 2 girlfriend later i find another girlfriend who parents are the same way as my first girlfriend parents only so far she has standed up to them. I think if you keep a open mind and look at how your girlfriend or boyfriend deals with your probelms in your relationship. Is how u will known marrying them is a good choice. My ex girlfriend could have stand upnfor me but did she? no. All of our relationship problems were her parents we had no freedom in our relationship at all. Now she dating a rich kid and gets to do what ever she wants so she happy now. all sue had to do is stand up for herself then we wouod have freedom too.
To the person who said that American and European women don't deserve proposals is like saying they're bad women. That's not only ignorant, but prejudice. Stop labeling all American and European women. I'm a happily engaged American woman, so I see that as a slap in the face. It's not only a slap in the face to me, but to all those women who are very decent ones. Stop insulting these women.
can we agree that most western women are bad women?
@dudeman I agree, simple. American/western women are just plain worthless. Period. We men are tired of the god damn games, the god damn whoring around, the whole nine god damn yards.
@Speedbird_747 true
I'd say that proposals in and of themselves aren't worth the effort. I mean, really, what's the point? Just so a girl can show off her shiny, new ring? Isn't that bragging? I've heard from the older generation of women that proposals and rings are a way of kind of belonging to a guy, but doesn't that fly in the face of modern feminism? I think proposals are trite and propagate an undue stress on the guy to go to extreme measures to "prove his love" with a material display that is money basically thrown away for a few fleeting moments that may not even yield positive results. Oh, and when she files for no-fault divorce, kiss that ring and everything else you spent on her goodbye. Fuck that noise.
This is like going to Best Buy and purchasing a TV, only to realize the TV is utter garbage and then blaming Best Buy.
Best Buy only sells the different TVs, you're the one that chose the bad one.
Same with marriage... Its up to you to choose the right person (TV) and only because you chose wrong doesn't mean marriage (Best Buy) is a bad thing.
Bullshit... Let's make it more applicable to the situation you've described.
Say you bought the TV with the promise that it will function as advertised with a lifetime guarantee. And it does for a number of years. And hell, you even made some peripheral upgrades like a surround sound system and entertainment center to showcase it. What you didn't know is that there was a subroutine in the TV's programming that changes performance of the TV at random that was not disclosed in the TV specs that ultimately breaks it. So then it turns out that the manufacture's warranty does not recognize the bugs in the programming thus making the buyer liable for any damages to the TV. By the way, the only way you can get rid of your TV is to pay the manufacturer to retrieve it... AND THE UPGRADES! Then you go to Best Buy the next day and see that same damn TV (and upgrades) for sale at full price, waiting for the next sucker to come along and buy it. Best Buy and the TV company are running a racket.
@Eleanor_Rigby
Lol dude what are you rambling on about?
You're over analyzing my analogy.
There's obviously more cons then pros for marriage at least for the woman anyway men have no real advantage to getting married as I found out firsthand since I am recently divorced and pay a lot of child-support fortunately we didn't have many assets to really split and she didn't get alimony since she married the guy she was cheating on me with right away after divorcing me
same thing happened to my grandma... he used to cheat on her with her co-workers.
@cross98 yeah it sucks when it's done to either sex but it just irks me how she got married right after the divorce papers got finalized
trust me, i know. same thing happened to my grandmother, sometimes if you let her talk too long, she starts to talk about him.
@cross98 yeah because our trust was broken and it's always in the back our minds
"get alimony since she married the guy she was cheating on me with"
WTF would she get any alimony if she was opening her legs for someone else?
@Oram52 you would be surprised how much they favor the woman in the divorce, she still could have pursued it but she was getting so much in child support and knew I would drag out the divorce if she ever tried getting alimony that didn't bother because she wanted to marry this guy
this is why i hate feminism. it ruins everything good. Modern feminism anyway
It's not just men but women to.
That's why I don't waste my time with women who have modern ideals, I prefer more old fashioned ones.
good to know that there are still men who prefer traditional women...
@zombiebabe Yeah we're still around.
that's a good thing to hear
@zombiebabe Indeed.
What a strange subject I bet for a lot of men hard left anti male feminists and a onesided legal system favouring women will put many off! I myself have never been married or ever had the chance to get married. I am 49 now and have never had sex or a girlfriend therefore I have no interest in marriage anymore!
Can I add something here, which relates to the female biological clock. If we have a society where women choose to focus on careers ( I'm very much in favour of this) then we have women making decisions over childbirth at a much later age. This leaves men with a later in life decision with women which means it's the full on childbearing relationship or nothing. Most men would in my opinion which again may be wrong to have a few years of boyfriend girlfriend before anything serious occurred
Opinion owner. Your right about the later age of child bearing time. I'm having children myself now and seen this already in scope. Even though I'm late in life only now having kids , I had to go alittle younger for many apon many reasons for this to happen in a fashionable way. I guess women think that they can't handle a career and a husband at the same time like how it's been for men all the generations after generations. Anyhow yea... I saw your observation
My boyfriend talks more about marrying me someday than I do, so that is a big generalization that
same
Probably because he's pussy whipped and hasn't figured out that there is more to life than women.
@Eleanor_Rigby Just because he wants to marry me doesn't mean that I'm the ONLY THING IN LIFE for him wtf :')
You know, you should go for a cheaper wedding, but that may not exist. So, I will say the following some, please don't be offended. I will pray to God that me and my future bride will get through our union without a lot of expenses and make it work,
If take the time to get to know each other and not place labels on one another.
Marriage has 0 benefits and only unnecessary high risks for men.
Why even bother?
Are you gay by chance?
@RustlingJimmies Maybe... I have yet to discover it for myself (;
Other species use ritualized rape, sounds like a much better system. With all of these jobs opened up to females, maybe we should instead revoke their ability to work outside of the kitchen - then males would be less disconcerted about women leaving them and making money elsewhere.
Some guys want to get married, they relish the idea. Hence, all these guys asking women to marry them vs cohabit a house.
so not much
@dudeman not much to what?
to what you said
Yup! These days marriage is the short road to financial suicide. Go MGTOW. Just don't commit...
Marriage favours Woman and its the equivalent to signing your own death contract. Dating is still man oriented, we pay and get what we want. Woman think they dump us "No lady you just allowed us to taste liquor of next pussy".
I wouldn't be as hardcore as you in your views but I do believe that cohabitation is a better option for some compared to marriage.
Marriage can work out for people but I think the ones who rush into it, end up divorcing quicker.
I think dating in today's world is so complicated which makes it hard for people to get into relationships let alone marriage to begin with. Not everybody but for a lot of people.