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Are High Heel Dress Codes Sexist For Women on the Job? (Page 2)
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Tr:Dr I skimmed tho. What else does the the dress code say? Do they have to wear a uniform? That could be part of it. Like let's say how airline flight attendants wear all the basic uniform. I'm sure they can either wear heels or flats but no tennis shoes. Its hard to write those damn things because if you say ok you must wear a suit to work for guys let's just say. But sure howdy nothing about the shoes you'll have some retard wearing tennis shoes with a suit. Its a hit overbearing of how the wrote that. Not sure what their thoughts were exactly. But bottom line what I have learned over the years if it doesn't specifically say something you can't were , ie bikini and yes I've seen that on a few dress code, it's because someone wore it to work at some point.
It says they must wear heels between 2-4 inches high!
Sexist dress codes are bad either way.
I think it's funny that people are only just now making a big deal out of this. As far as I can see, men had to deal with far stricter dress codes than women for years, and none of these women spoke up about it. Hypocrites.
Actually both men and women have dealt with their fair share of dress code issues but to say no one is speaking out or has never, isn't actually true at all, it's just now, it's getting a lot more press.
No. It's not sexism. It's the fact you pulled an article from USA Today, a very liberal news outlet. Guess what kind of BS liberals put out? Cry baby feminist articles such as this. It's only sexist bc she isn't getting her way, not bc of actual sexism... -.-
Just gonna put this out there...
It's a UK story. About a UK person. In a UK city. COULD it be possible that "USA today" MAYBE just copied the story? How about you find out where the story came from?
In other news I read something on LadBible, couldn't possibly have been nicked from someone else. Liberal theiving bastards.
@Hidden_P I sense butthurt... Are you a feminist?
You sound like a MGTOW
No I'm not a feminist, far from it.
I'm pointing out that you're a moron. The paper stole the story. You haven't even bothered to look into where it came from originally, you just jumped on the wagon.
Nowhere in my statement had anything to do with male or feminine rights, I merely pointed out you haven't bothered to do your homework. Following the same logic, are you a trump supporter with 1 testicle? No proof, just a "feeling".
@Hidden_P if they copy that story, it's shows no less how liberal they are. The story itself is left wing biased, they pump out left wing biased news, and even donate to the DNC. Where, exactly, am I wrong?
@Hidden_P If you're not a feminist, then you must be left wing. Am I right?
I don't assign myself to any party or "wing"
It's possible for a news story to be reported and not be "winged"
@Hidden_P So you are a lib. Figures. And is it? Bc CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, BuzzFeed, Vice, and others certainly don't hide it...
That makes sense. *thumbs up*
Well apparently you can't read on two counts.
I'm not any party, I have views that fit both left and right, I'm not any party, I'm certainly not a feminist. So that's number 1 fact you can't read.
Number 2. UK STORY, UK PERSON. All things mentioned at US sources. There is a world outside the USA you know.
Love how by the way you are deciding my views even though I never mentioned how I felt about this news story.
@Hidden_P bc why else are you upset that i criticized the left and feminist? Only two groups are... left wing and feminist. Unless you are a troll.
And again, left wing article being forwarded by a left wing news outlet. And this may shock you... but other countries have left sided political parties too... with their own left wing news outlet. Maybe... just maybe... the UK guy is left wing? Just a hunch
No. I criticised you FOR FAILING TO LOOK BEYOND YOUR OWN COUNTRY.
Look back. Nothing I've said is left or right. I called you out on lack of research. You are the one who's decided to put me in a party.
Also FYI there are more than two groups. And that maybe not a man wrote the story. Females can write too.
@JustSomeArmyDude Here is an article from The Guardian, which is one of the world's most respected news sources by right and left-wingers.
www.theguardian.com/.../law-must-be-tougher-over-dress-code-discrimination-say-mps
@Hidden_P... what does me looking at other countries have to do with thid article's bias?
FYI, I can see beyond my own borders. China now has troops operating in the Middle East to fight ISIS after ISIS threatened China. Sweden has increased rates of molestation and rape. Germany vows to increase it's spending on it's military budget as per UN law. German people are buying up blackmarket weapons and explosives out of fear of the muslim migrants entering their country.
That's just a few news pieces that I know of
Although, women should be well groomed, neat, and clean on the job. Being required to wear high heels is ridiculous, especially at 2 inches and above.
If they were required to wear 'dress shoes' or even a kitten heel (1 inch) I would be more inclined to agree.
Look I agree on the heels thing when it's not needed, but if you're front of house in finance or law, you HAVE to uphold a certain company image for people to take you seriously. On my team, I insist on heels during presentation days because it makes a difference to a 5'2 woman who can then actually be seen at the front room.
Also, I find it hilarious women (on here) actually believe men don't have to dress up and look after themselves in the same job...
Are you required to wear something painful that poses a health and safety risk? Of course not. Heels are not the only dress footwear that exist for women. If you're in the US or the UK, your requirement is illegal. And sexist.
@MlleCake It's not anymore dangerous than wearing roller-skates is, and we let 8 year olds roll around on the public pavements with those with traffic going past. And, like the original take, it's not a written contractual requirement simply strongly implied, therefore not illegal. Refuse though and all you'll end up proving is that you're not willing to do these little things to make things perfect... guess who I won't refer when the company needs a bright and upcoming candidate for a big project.
Thankfully presentations are rare. In normal operations, I actually allow trainers once they're past the security gate because it's a closed office. But, I can fully understand a manager, team leader's POV if their staff were interacting all the time with professional clients - first impressions make a difference, and they give women height and presence when talking with men.
Actually, a dress code is a written requirement, especially if it is enforced by suspending a woman from work, which happened to the UK woman. Rollerskates are also dangerous in workplaces, and permitted in almost none save for roller skating car hops.
www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/.../12418-injuries-from-wearing-high-heels-have-doubled-study
That is a pretty compelling reason for many employers to not only not require high heels, but ban them entirely. They aren't necessary to conduct any common job, and it is an expectation that is applied only to women. Men don't stand for their health and safety being jeopardized unnecessarily in the workplace. Union men have been beaten and died to afford you the right to safe working conditions.
Wow lol I'm 5'0 and need no heels to be seen. My voice is powerful and you can easily be seen depending on what you're doing. There are things called podiums, walking around getting to know the crowd you're speaking to. Presentation is all about the individual not heels.
@MlleCake actually, men ARE required to wear uncomfortable clothing. Men cannot wear shorts or short sleeved shirts, but women often can.
@Kirah That goes workplace by workplace, but again, clothing like that is not painful and debilitating like heels are, not a safety hazard. Now, I am not saying that a dress code like that is perfectly fair, but we're not quite comparing the same kind of thing.
It's a by product of women always wearing such things... enhancing their looks all too often... Well guess what? Now people want to profit on your ability to attract clients based on your image
Wanna change it? ... get women to stop wearing make up and high heels to please the boys. Eventually businesses won't be able to do the same... as of now, it is what it is
That's not how things work. In the US and the UK, sexual discrimination is mostly illegal. There are reasonable, suitably dressy alternatives to heels, and at least in the US, an employer can not endanger your health needlessly. Do you want to be forced to wear something painful, that makes it hard for you to walk, ruins your knees, and causes accidents and injuries, and is utterly unnecessary in YOUR job? Of course you don't.
@MlleCake But men do it everyday... construction, moving companies, risky divers, fishers, steel workers, miners, fitness models taking steroids (all those hotties girls ooggle over)... the list goes on... And those risks come with the position.. Same as the heels, 2inches that is which isn't that high, comes with working at PWC...
Neither men nor women deserved to be exposed to patently unsafe working conditions. That's one thing organized labor has worked hard on in the US. I support men in dangerous work who want to see better safety in their workplaces. This is not a zero sum game, or one-upsmanship. Women can have this policy corrected and men can have other different policies corrected all at the same time.
@MlleCake A great example is lets say someone takes a day off work because they are 'sick' but then their boss sees them cruising the beach and chilling with friends instead of resting at home... what message doest that send? --> the obvious one... they might be sick, they might not be... but surely not sick enough to not chill at the beach
Take heels for example --> You wanna remove heels from a professional environment yet you see women walking with heels everyday all day... it will never happen like that --> just like a boss will never agree this person needs a day off --> the only way to solve the heel issue is to limit the use of heels to illustrate that it really does indeed have health consequences that women are concerned about --> this is a situation of capitalizing on a person looking good.. show the world heels are not required to look 'good' and it will be done in a flash...
BUT we both know that won't happen
not sexist per se, but terribly impractical in most cases.
also, what of those of us who have foot/leg issues already? if i work for a company that decides to implement heels as required footwear, should i be fired because i'm physically incapable of complying?
(i shattered my left ankle and will have to walk with a cane for a very long time; wearing heels would only aggravate the injury and possibly interfere with my recovery.)
Actually, if it's considered a disability, but you can still perform your job, they couldn't discriminate by law. There are no jobs on the planet, aside from high heel model, that are essential for women to wear heels to adequately perform their job.
High heels are one of societies screw ups. The internet wants to make fun of crocs, fedoras, and Timberland boots, but none of them cause physical damage unlike high heels.
I don't think its necessarily sexist, but I do find that it's both an unnecessary and damaging policy.
Ok, let's make a deal.
This is sexist but since women can murder people and serve a tiny sentence, be released, have a rich lawyer waiting for them. Then get granted a name change and a passport the next day and move of a tropical area.
Let's call it square. Women have to dress like women and they are allowed to murder.
How about nobody is allowed to murder and nobody is required to wear unhealthy footwear to work. I'm not wearing heels all day on the job just because the idiots in the courtroom can be easily swayed by a pair of boobs.
@samhradh_leannan I like your deal better.
woah. i can murder someone and get a light sentence? since when? did i miss the memo?
shit. better write up my hit list
@LilWeezey shit lol I missed it too. Going over my list now lol jk
Only when I had a waitress job in a private box at the race track have I ever been told to wear heels and even then I got away with ballet flats. It's stupid to have a mandatory heel policy, especially with a job like that where you have to move and stand all the time.
Good thing that the women affected by it stood up against that. Leaving the gender debate aside, high heels are quite painful to wear over a long time and, as you mentioned, cause serious injury when worn on the regular, especially over such a long period. Plus, there is enough "professional" footwear out there that is flat. So there's really no reason behind forcing female employees to wear high heels.
Wear the right clothes for the job. A police woman, female fire fighter, female soldier, female construction worker etc should definitely not wear high heels. I think some women might wear high heels because they feel pressured to wear them but once they know that they aren't necessary, most will gladly stop wearing that cumbersome attire.
I think it is sexist to be honest. I mean it's OK for workplaces to have certain grooming standards but "hair with no visible roots" WTF? How is your hair supposed to grow without roots? How is it possible to hide that? Wear a wig? OMG.
"regularly applied makeup" fuck off.
And compulsory high heels? What? Is the company going to pay for all the podiatrist consultations.
It's a totally antiquated professional environment that one.
This is what I hate about these jobs.
No more than suits are for men. In my opinion high heels far from being sexist in the work environment are probably stupid and a healthy hazard but yet I bet if you told women they could not wear them at work there would be protests in the street for as we all know if you tell a woman she can't do so something she will go ahead and do it.
There are plenty of workplaces where women are prohibited from wearing heels. Many employers know that they slow workers down and increase the incidence of injury if it's not a desk job. I don't see waitresses in the street lobbying for the right to wear heels in restaurants where they are required to wear flat, safety-soled shoes.
@MlleCake I've seen women wear heels in the most ludicrous circumstances.
I am sure you have. I've worn them in ludicrous circumstances, probably much more ludicrous than you can imagine. The deal is though, no one can force me to wear them for work if they do not have anything to do with an essential function of the job, like being a Rockette.
www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/.../12418-injuries-from-wearing-high-heels-have-doubled-study
Again, where are these women protesting for the right to wear heels in jobs where they are prohibited? Like, have you ever heard a Teamster demanding the right to wear heels on the loading dock? Of course not, because no one wants to wear heels on the loading dock, not even the women.
@MlleCake the amount of times our health and safety officer has had to write up women wearing high heels instead of safety shows is pretty high
That doesn't seem like protests in the streets though.
@MlleCake with all due respect women protesting in the streets over anything this last while even the taxation of women's hygiene products.
I am willing to guarantee no woman has been marching in the street for the right to wear heels where it is dangerous and prohibited. Really. I know it was a bit of hyperbole on your part, but now you're trying to defend it like it was an actual point.
@MlleCake nah just arguing. I never worked anywhere where women were forced to wear heels, maybe if the company is called prada
tldr Isn't it just western gender roles? It doesn't seem any more sexist to me than guy's having to wear ties.
Except ties aren't painful, don't cause bunions or ankle injuries or damage the knees, and make it harder to walk. You have to find something similar to compare it to. Do men even have a regular item of apparel like that?
@MlleCake I guess not this was really a half baked response, the point seems to be to conform to gender roles rather than to purposely inflict pain on women in my opinion. I wouldn't call it intentionally sexist but perhaps just inconvenient for women.
Intentionality is not a measure of what is sexist or not. De facto discrimination is still discrimination.
@MlleCake How is it discrimination?
Discrimination can also happen when we just don't take into account how a policy or law could create an unfair situation for a minority group.
@MlleCake Fair argument I don't agree with calling it discrimination my own definition would include malice which is what I believe most people associate with discrimination. If that's how you wanna define it go ahead it's still ill treatment.
If I were a manager, women can wear whatever shoes they want as long as they're "nice". I'd care that everyone is comfortable to best do their job. Yes, high heels could be silly.
If you don't like the contract you have agreed to when joining your job then you should find another job. The dress code is part of the contract and the employer has the right to dictate how his employees should be dressed, don't like it find another job, break that contract you will be fired. Simple.
Employers are not allowed policies that put employee's health and well-being at risk for things that have nothing to do with the effective performance of the job.
www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/.../12418-injuries-from-wearing-high-heels-have-doubled-study
If the men have to abide by the same set of rules I'm ok with it otherwise no it shouldn't happen.
I'm of the belief that the workplace should be the model of efficiency. Do the heels serve a purpose or otherwise help get the job done? If not, they can go. Then again, I like to laugh at the first world problems that pass for sexism these days, so I'm a little torn on the issue.
Heels are the dumbest invention they came up with.
I dont know, if its sexist, or just marketing female employees, but its stupid and inconsiderate.
They should definitely go. Get rod of heels permanently.
All women should just unite, have a discussion, and decide to stop wearing heels. Why do people even subject their bodies to such unnatural situations.