Are electric cars better for the environment or worse?

[888theGreat]

Also , people bought one from Ford and battery went out and Ford said it would cost $14,000 to replace it. The buyer would have to pay.

We don;t know how long these cars will last. Batteries might need to be replaced often. So you are looking at $40,000 new , multiple batteries $14,000 each to replace. So, electric cars cost you a lot more than gas burning cars. Plus you have electricity to pay for charging it. How many people can afford buying a new electric cars every 3 years or replacing the battery? Plus there is $0 trade in value. One reason none of them will last long enough to trade in. The US is going the wrong direction. Not to mention the stress they will put on 1950's power grids.

No thanks. I think I will call it quits when electric cars are the only option.

The repairs on a gas burning cars would not cost $14,000 over 20 year period. You have resale value too. Gas would still be cheaper than electricity charging electric car.

Worse , they use lead and a lot of the parts can't be recycled. Also require more mining of materials

Better , don't burn fuel.

Updates

1 y

My Truck is a 1987 , I got it in 1994 (think so) , I have not come close to $14,000 in repairs and I still use it. 28 years , not counting 7 years before I bought it. I paid $4000 and collected about $3500 from insurance companies because it was hit while parked. Now tell me how I save money buying an electrical car or truck. Plus it is a V8 . I doubt if electrical cars have that power.

[Anonymous]

California bull crap imposed on the country. Look how it's going in California. Newsome says nonelectric cars will not be available to buy after 2030. Then during every summer, he imposes rolling black outs because the electrical grid is suffering.

[888theGreat]

There will periods of electricity for certain hours , then they will cut it off. Like 3rd world

[joeldalton]

Does any rational person honestly think they are better for the environment?

[888theGreat]

every stinking liberal does.

[joeldalton]

I said rational and honest. That and ‘liberals’ are mutually exclusive.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Electric vehicles can have a lot of power, think about the diesel electric train engines.

Electric engines powered by Diesel generator, they are great cause they don't use batteries... and have been around for decades.

The real problem is how to power electric vehicles, batteries seem to suck.

Try living in the western USA too... drive across Montana towing a trailer, with fuel powered, can go 500 or 600 miles a day. With a electric truck, I'd have to like stop and charge every like 100 or so miles.

That is a disaster waiting to happen, if I need to make it 500 miles that day, I will fall asleep and kill someone because instead of taking 8 or 10 hours of driving I'll be doing 24 hours or more without sleep... only napping while it charges.

Worse idea ever from people who clearly don't care about safety.

They can't see past cars and big cities and commuting in cities. Most have zero ability to see how things are out west.

Same deal if I go into the mountains, I doubt the forest service is going to build Charging stations at the dry campgrounds that have no electricity to begin with. Those fuckers never even think of stuff like that or they simply say... not my problem don't go there, that is your choice. See they gas light and try to turn their problem into mine.

I will never have an electric vehicle until

1. I can drive 500+ miles on a single charge while towing a trailer

2. Can go off roading into the mountains/desert away from civilization and be able to make it back without going dead.

3. Maintenance is as cheap as a typical fuel powered traditional vehicle.

4. Price to buy is the same or cheaper than traditional vehicle, without some libtard adding a big tax on traditional vehicles to make them cost more, or manipulate the system, like Obama and Biden have been doing.

Yeah we all know the two of them have been driving up the cost of SUV's and pickups by updating fleet rules, that car manufactures have to follow. When they say your fleet of new cars you sell has to average 30, 40 or 50 mph by 2040. The only way they can meet those goals is to build more tiny high mileage cars and less SUV's/pickups and thus simple supply and demand means less of those on the market so the prices go sky high.

My truck was $39,000 when I got it, the exact same model is now close to a 100k. That isn't simple inflation.

A year ago it was worth 18k used, this year it is now 22k used. When the price of a used vehicle goes up, you know the government is doing something to it.

[WhiteSteve]

I was looking into an old Ford Escape that was some sort of utility supervisor vehicle that had wicked low mileage on it despite being a 2008, and it was a hybrid. I emailed the dealership asking about the battery, if it was new or needed replacing, and got no answer back, haha. I assume it was up for a new one. My research said the battery was more like $5k, which I would’ve thought about given the low mileage, but definitely was an added consideration.

I rented a hybrid once when my car was in the shop though, and I was very impressed with the gas mileage it got. I think I drove about a five hour round trip to go to a concert, I didn’t even burn half a tank of actual gas. So there are definitely some “pros” to these things.

The transition to EVs is very gradual, I don’t think the California law will affect anything before 2035, and if you can’t scrape up the necessary money in over a decade, you have bigger problems than electric vehicles lmao. It’s newer technology, so things are more expensive. Once it becomes the standard, it’ll be much more affordable. It’s also worth noting that petroleum companies give BIG BUCKS to political campaigns for reasons just like this, for someone to stand up and say “But WAIT! Sure, it SOUNDS good, but what about [X/Y/Z problem]?”, to cause this EXACT effect where we say “Whoa, what’s that? Fuck that, I’ll just keep using gas.” Cigarettes serve absolutely no positive purpose, we KNOW they kill us, it would make all the sense in the world to just ban them, and the only real reason to allow them is this vague freedom-based “because I can if I want to” stupidity, oh, and also the millions and millions of dollars politicians get from tobacco lobbyists. That’s how this all works. We try to do the smart and sensible thing, unless someone gets paid to suggest otherwise, lmfao. And “we the people” aka “we the idiots”, just go “oh, well, if they were that bad, they’d be illegal, as if these politicians are actually concerned about doing what’s best for us.

[MuddyMole]

I reckon it will depend on how you feel about nuclear power - which is realistically the only way we're going to be able to meet the energy requirements - and whether we find something better than lithium battery technology, which sucks.

My biggest problem with them so far though, is how incredibly regressive government policy has been. Poor people obviously can't afford to buy a new electric car - they're going to buy some cheap old banger instead - but if you were one of the fortunate individuals who could afford one, then:

- you were paid £2500 by the taxpayer, as a subsidy.
- you were paid another £350 by the taxpayer, to install a home charger.
- you will contribute zero VED, which despite being colloquially known as "road tax", actually goes to central government, and therefore pays for schools, hospitals, pensions, etc.
- you will contribute far less through tax on fuels, as in this country, more than 50% of the price of fuel is tax (again, money that pays for essential services), while electricity is taxed at just 5%.
- you won't contribute through other local taxes either, like clean air zones.

It's all just free money for those who least need it.

[WindAtMyBack]

I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.

I do know that producing just about anything is more efficient when produced in quantity. A power plant that produces hundreds of megawatts is going to be a lot more efficient than an individual car or home that produces power.

What's the source of the power? In the US, renewable and nuclear are about 20% each for a total of about 40%. Both are very clean. Coal and natural gas make up almost all the rest.

Now it comes to batteries and other materials. I have no idea on this one. I assume the batteries get recycled. Most of the car gets recycled for that matter, for both electric and internal combustion.

When it comes to fuel cells, it's easy to think that hydrogen is clean, but it's not. Producing hydrogen is very energy intensive.

Another thing to consider is where the pollution is concentrated. With internal combustion engines the pollution is highly concentrated in the cities. With electric, it can be away from the highest concentrated places to less concentrated places. By spreading it out, it give nature a better chance to deal with it.

[ArtemisSilver]

They have roughly half the carbon footprint of a gas car when factoring for routine battery replacement.

As for service life, that remains to be seen but I suspect that you could keep one going indefinitely by replacing parts just as you do with any other machine. I do my own work on my e bike and it's just a smaller version of the same thing.

There are two very promising upgrade paths for electric cars, carbon nanotube based batteries, which are much more energy dense, or small thorium reactors that could run safety for decades. The tech is already out there just waiting for miniaturization and application to vehicles.

I don't really get why people are so stuck on gas engines, gas isn't going to be getting any cheaper. We're past peak production regardless of if you like it or don't. You're welcome to pay through the teeth if you like though.

As for the power grid, it can be made to adapt over time just like it has been for other things like air conditioning. Again another area where thorium reactors can help.

[TheorionMage]

The twin issues are what elements are used to fashion its batteries, their longevity and keeping in mind the batteries are but the means to TRANSPORT that vehicle's energy... One must also consider HOW that energy is produced.

Much is made of using wind or solar but we also are overlooking geo-thermal and oceanic wave action... as some of the Nordic Netherlands countries harvest. You MUST consider the ENTIRITY of the process's costs.

There was a time in the early days of internal combustion where petroleum distilleries used to spill raw gasoline thrown out as an undesirable by-product!

[RavVid]

Well electric cars do burn fuel at the power station that provides the electricity for you to charge it.

A gas car is about 20% thermodynamic efficient. But how efficient is the power station? Where I am the coal power stations are 30% thermodynamic efficient cal burners. There are about 10% losses in the transmission and distribution so we are back to 20% efficiency and using carbon based fuels.

No chance of using solar panels if you charge overnight or wind farm power if it is a still day. So even though you might be paying for 'green electricity' it could becoming from a coal burner.

After that it gets complicated as solar panels and wind turbines have carbon costs in being manufactured.

[exitseven]

Electric care do have a lot of power and a lot of torque. They can be real neck snappers. But when people have to pay hundreds of dollars to have the battery recycled you will find tham by the side of the road or at the bottom of the sea, They will be a huge source of pollution once all that lead leaches into the water table. I wish they would be successful but I don't think it will happen. Then there is the fires. There is a local Tesla dealer in my town and last week the fire department had to go there to put out a vehicle fire. Not a good look for Elon Musk.

[TheBigGuy9]

They are worse. Much worse, but when you can convince people that CO2, a vital component of life on earth is a pollutant, you can make people believe whatever you want. I don’t know how much clearer it has to get when the author (Saikat Chakrabarti) of the Green New Deal says it has nothing to do with the Environment? I’ve not always been a good person, but now that I’ve been able to pull myself back, I can see things much clearer now. I’m able to at the very least entertain a competent perspective that is born out of pure evil. That is what makes Trump formidable.

[TroyDT]

Electric cars are currently far greater net polluters. The materials used in the batteries are mined via processes that cause mass environmental damage. There is no good way to dispose of the toxic material-filled batteries once they fail. And the vast majority of the electricity to charge them is still produced by natural gas and coal plants. And I suspect at the end of the day, especially with the loss of usable energy during transmission, the actual amount of fossil fuel energy expended per mile is likely as high or higher than for an average gasoline powered vehicle.

[FreyaRed]

Elites want the pleb stops consuming fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) because they consider the remaining reserves as their assets. Electric cars are part of their plan but lack of sustainability of electric-cars and batteries isn't in any kind beneficial for environment. Electric cars just outsource energy consumption to another energy source instead of oil, but they need for production and maintenance still a lot of resources.

[Likes2drive]

Only the rich can buy and maintain them, they just put the product out there with no future on how to deal with the problems of them later on. Certain car companies are going to stop making gas vehicles which could be a wrong move later on when all these problems come to a head

[Sixgunsound]

Carl Jackson did a GREAT podcast on how electric cars perpetuate dark skinned child slavery internationally for the benefit of white liberals in the west.

[Sirenboobzilla]

I live the idea of electric cars. But what goes in to making their batteries is chemically disastrous, especially when you consider their disposal

[Jessica405]

Worse! No way would I buy a full EV, plug-in hybrid or self charging hybrid. Problems, as you say, plus extra pollution from tyres wearing out.

[ArtemisSilver]

How do you figure that tyres wear out faster on an electric car?

[Jessica405]

@ArtemisSilver An electric motor has much higher starting torque. Faster acceleration. More wear.

[ArtemisSilver]

You can control the output with the motor controller though

[XXblack88]

Worst. Were I live there nowhere to charge your electric car.

[Luckycharms12]

Actually worse if look in to it with all parts are made. Long term better of course but don't see electric cars being the answer having plan trips so can charge it

[Staximus]

It's not lead in the batteries, it's lithium or nickel. The production and disposal of those batteries is terrible for the environment

[maximumpower]

Near term benefits will be outweighed by long term problems.

[888theGreat]

Typical liberal. Just change and we will try to figure it out later

[Libertycityguy]

Less oil and gas usage. However the price point or technology is not there for me.