Why do people force others to follow gender roles?

[Anonymous]

It’s not like anyone chose their biological sex or gender identity.

[V_Injector]

I share the opinion of @emyywolf here. ... someone queue my theme music...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/MV_3Dpw-BRY

But allow me to verbally masturbate all over this idea's titts with my text.

Allow me to share a story. I was just a child living with a Great Grandmother that was fucking weird as shit. I always knew I was a super stud pretty boy that has a hard boner for the ladies. I mean I had 4 girlfriends at the same time in the 2nd grade. I was getting that hairless vadge before most of you was even wondering why you're starting to grow hair in strange places. Anyway, the point is... I knew who I was and what I was about.

Then I'd wake up in the morning and there is my great-grandmother trying to talk me into wearing stretchy pants with flowers all over them. This isn't a joke... she tried this shit with me. She was always saying weird gay shit or implying I was gay... and now she's trying to force me to go to school in girl clothes.

Of course, I became very unhinged and refused to even go to school. Fuck that shit. She tried to push it and got the sheriff involved... that's when she finally got checked. I still got forced to go to school, but they didn't make me wear legging stretch pants with flowers all over them and a light pink shirt that had a head hole way too big. So why did she do that shit? ... and that's where my story comes into contact with your question.

That bitch was nuts! For some reason, she was trying to force a boy that dry humps his pillows all night thinking about girls and make him wear girl clothes to school. I mean I fist fight at school and play sports knocking other kid's teeth out... that shit wasn't going to happen! But she was trying to force it. I don't know if it was political, but now as an adult... I can say it was 100% definitely about control. She was losing control which is natural and for some reason, she thought that was the path to get it back.

After that, she resorted to poisoning my food and doing some Munchausen syndrome shit. That worked for her for a while until the state finally took me away. Nothing like puking constantly and wondering why blood comes out your mouth at 9 years old. Thank Gawd she's dead.

This should explain why I'm not all there... if you know what I mean. I'm gonna fuck my pillow now and then beat it up.

[EmyyWolf]

That’s child abuse. Damn near. Child S-X abuse!
Unacceptable!!!

I see a lot more women “nowadays” doing that insanity to their toddlers!! Have you seen it?
And it’s all political. God knows how those poor kids will end up like.

Little boys need constant rough play with other boys, sports and a lot of physical activity, compared to little girls.
Cause they have more adrenaline and testosterone. And people want to call it ADHD.
No that’s just their nature.

Sorry you had to experience that. But at least now you know not to marry a nutjob of a woman.

[V_Injector]

@EmyyWolf Yeah it was S-x abuse in my opinion... I didn't even go into how she would put things in my butt because I need "medicine" and all of that. She was fucking weird.

I agree with what you've said too... boys don't need to be subjected to this... sit all day and listen shit and then it is excused as Autism when they just can't... or ADHD or some other stupid shit. They're just not built for it but they're being forced to do something that is designed for females... literally.

It depresses me when I hear recesses have been removed from school with my own kids. They're not even allowed to play now.

... then of course some of these kids fall into the trap, of seeking parental approval, and they will just go along with the same type of shit my Great Grandmother was trying to do to me.

I really wished there was school choice already. Those institutions would be obsolete so fast if they'd just approve that idea.

[lightbulb27]

not sure about forced but coerced certainly.

People are creatures of habit... training. They are passing on what has worked for long time... certain cultures developed and ensured survival of offspring.

and here we are... the survivors...

now things change over time as well, hormonal environment has changed, knowledge. Women have more power. Given technology, women may be better suited to roles that used to be reserved for men. Some men are able to do jobs better than women used to... example nursing, clothing design.

I think there's still standards in society that we would snap back into, if the pressures of the past were applied. Example... in war, we tolerate men suffering more than women. Imagine a warship filled with women that sinks. That makes the news. As it is, a ship sinks with all hands... and most barely blink an eye.

Everything is moveable, but there are reasons for the prior roles... power, strength, abilities, training. As society has changed, roles change.

[Amara_09]

Because society had normalized it.




Sometimes I look at myself and I think ,


“ Damn I am more masculine than I am feminine”


We are conditioned to act a certain way because of our gender.


Technically I would rather dress like a lazy tomboy when I am around my friends than would have to go for the trouble of dressing like an actual woman and acting less masculine if I am in a professional setting. Like criss cross your legs like a lady but manspread all the way when with friends because I am not worried about being judged

[Anonymous]

If you don’t accept your gender or sex for what it is. And enjoy it for what it is.

Thats a mental illness called gender dysmorphia.

If you want to be tomboy as a female or more soft as a male. That’s different. That’s a personality. But as long as you are attracted to the opposite sex of yours, or not wanting to change your own biological sex on the belief that you could be a girl. Then you’re fine.

It’s mental illness when you can’t be attracted to the opposite sex as an adult. Or you don’t want to be your own biological sex.

[Asker]

It’s gender dysphoria not gender dysmorphia.

[Opinion Owner]

Typo

[Lliam]

Nobody is forcing people to follow gender roles. But neither can people be forced to accept those who have "alternative" gender roles.

People pretty much accepted LGB and even transvestites. It's the trans-gender thing that became problematic for a number of important reasons.

The idea that a man can physically become a woman and that a woman can become a man is absurd. The cosmetic changes made through drugs and plastic surgery serve no benefit and actually cause harm. So-called trans people have been scammed for profit. And that scam has destroyed lives.

Before the "miracles of modern [mad] science" - drugs, hormones and plastic surgery - people had various sexual proclivities. But the had to face the physical reality of the bodies into which they were born. It never occurred to anyone that they could actually pick their gender. Even now, it's delusional for people to believe that they can switch genders. It simply can't be done.

Anyway, adults can mutilate their bodies or do whatever they want. But that doesn't mean that others have to view them as normal or even sane. The most generous response is to pity them.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I would never force anyone to conform and actually celebrate people who experiment and deviate from those roles.

However, I think it's important to raise a boy like a boy, for example, to navigate the social pressures and social expectations placed upon him. Should those social pressures and expectations exist? No, but until the entire world changes this way, I think we have to teach boys to navigate the world within the expectations placed upon them.

For girls, I'm not as sure. I actually would prefer to raise a girl like a boy and have no idea how to raise girls. I'd need my wife's help on that part. But if she wants to be a leader or conquer male-dominated industries, then I think it would help to raise her like a boy.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

It's like ideally no one should have to learn to stand up for themselves since an ideal world would have no bullies. But until we find that ideal world with no bullies, I think we have to teach people to stand up for themselves. That's the way I see it teaching people to navigate and excel in their gender roles.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I'm open to anything that works though. If I see someone deviating from traditional gender roles successfully and excelling in their goals regardless or even excelling in their goals as a result of deviating, I applaud and celebrate it. Yet I think it's risky to deviate too much from tradition too soon at a broad cultural level.

I err on raising a boy like a boy, for example, since he might grow up and still expected to behave like a man (Stoic, able to fend for himself and others, have leadership qualities, not be afraid to walk alone at night, etc). Yet if he can excel in that sort of role as a starting point, he might be able to deviate and dabble with the feminine more. That's the safest way as I see it so that he's prepared if society places expectations on him to be masculine in certain situations but can then deviate if he wants as he sees fit.

[Summeroflove]

I don’t force anyone to do anything. I think people should live their own lives as they see fit as well as marry the person they want to marry.

But I also disagree with those who think they deserve special treatment because of their sex or feel they’re more important then the other.

I believe these men and women hold the opposite sex to too high or a standard in relationships. Sure people are allowed to have standards but you aren’t entitled to another person, the same as nobody is entitled to you.

They become frustrated romantically so they think everyone should conform to what they think romantic relationships should be like. All men/women are trash. The list goes on.

[JacobJordan]

Force is the wrong word. If left entirely alone with no outside pressure both men and women will naturally gravitate towards certain things. Women will naturally gravitate towards the things we call "gender roles for women" and men will naturally gravitate towards things we call "gender roles for men". People only say it is forced because it is talked about. But the reality is it would happen naturally if not talked about anyways. Talking about it just speeds up the process

[HawkPerception]

It's mental illness. There are people literally identifying as animals like dogs, cats, birds, etc. They actually go to doctors and tell the doctors that's what they are. It's extremely important to accept yourself for what you are. Just because you want to be a butterfly doesn't mean you are one. Just because you want to be a wolf doesn't mean you are one. Grow up and live as the male or female you are like everyone else throughout history.

[Siri137]

I don't know anyone who does. Besides, there are good reasons why gender roles existed in the past, and why they still do today, which is related to the inherent biological differences that exist between women and men.

[sheikalana]

Nobody forced anything on me. I am a woman and I’m gonna die a woman. Just like a man is going to die a man no matter what you do to change it your DNA tests can never deny it even in a million years.

[A_Bell]

I am a woman and I am tired of males who think chopping off their penis and putting on a bra makes them one.

This is especially ridiculous in sports and allowing these mentally ill people around children or in our restrooms.

[Bricealan]

Who really gives a damn? The latest push on gender roles is just another wrinkle in the eventual extinction of the so-called human race on this planet

[WaddleGirl]

1st, you be you.
2nd, if people are “forcing” you into a role, you’re in the wrong crowd. I doubt they are forcing you to do anything.
Lastly, kill them with kindness. Always screws people up. 😊

[TheeTrybrid]

I just really didn't like when people started with the they, them" bs. Like ma'am you're clearly a she 🙄.

[DextroShade]

Every other animal on this Earth has gender roles, so not having them is an abomination unto nature. Also, there is no such thing as a "gender identity" just sick delusional weirdos who think they are something they are not.

[Asker]

But unlike humans other animals aren’t forced to follow gender roles.

[SolitarySolace]

Because if everyone didn’t follow their gender roles society itself would fall apart. It would be chaos and anarchy. See women’s sports for example.

[LiamJHayden]

Very few people care what people call themselves, but those same people will likely get irate if some 6' tall 250 lb dude with a beard belligerently tries to get everyone to call him "her."

[Account]

I never do.
As for others I could list the reasons but it doesn't even matter/it is irrelevant, the result is the same.

[Anonymous]

There are people that do not understand biology lol
Gender role is natural

[jshm2]

Of course there is, you fucking dumbass.

I choose to be an apache attack helicopter every day except Sundays, as then I'm a dolphin.

[OtterMan68]

Who is being forced? Which adults are anyway?

[laly520]

u do u

its 2024 everyone free to be defined however they want

those who wants to force it aren't able to do anything big anyway

[OddBeMe]

Following traditions is what older gens do. It’s all about controlling people.

Sometimes it’s good, like the tradition of law and family.. other times not so much. Hence my blue bellied liberalism.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The short answer: the patriarchy thrives when everyone follows a strict binary.

[Flatmanlewis]

Ah yes. That damned patriarchy. Rising it’s ugly head again.

[gorydetails]

This doesn't happen. Gender roles are there because each gender has innate preferences. The gender roles fit these preferences.

[msmissydc]

Did you just generalize every human being?

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc I certainly did. Problem?

[msmissydc]

Depends, generally speaking I would disagree. What preferences do you think are innate to each gender?

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc You'd disagree but you'd be wrong. Generally Men are more wiling to take risks, more aggressive, more physical... and a whole host more. Women are generally more nurturing and caring, more emotional, etc. This isn't a comprehensive list, obviously. But there's mountains of research that will give you all the preferences you're looking for.

[msmissydc]

I would argue, that these are mostly society made gender roles. . Also we agree on the fact that it isn't absolute defining but on average for the whole population?

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc No, they aren't. They are innate. When they do studies on chimpanzees and put them in a room with various toys, the male chimps will gravitate towards balls/trucks, etc. The females will gravitate towards dolls and "play house".

Well of course, it'd be stupid to say it applies 100%. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. We can say "humans have two arms" knowing that some are born with only one.

[msmissydc]

Ok found the source for the chimp/bonobo gender test. I have read a translation though as I can't read france.
Have you read it? Because it doesn't really support your stance. What you told about it is not wrong, But when you see what he writes further he compares the differences between the chimps and bonobos. He later argues that their differences are only a fraction of what we humans have to them. Their 'society' aspect already differs slightly from their nature and that is it has a much bigger impact on us compared to them.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc

do you believe your behavior is dependent on genetics? Hormones? Why in the majority of societies have men had the same characteristics and women the same nurturing behaviors? Despite these societies being vastly different? I mean I get it. It's some dumb feminist mantra to claim that oppressive men have kept women barefoot and pregnant - but that's not reality. (as with most things feminists claim).

[msmissydc]

My argument is that it's mostly because of social norms, which are variable and changeable as the society grows and evolves. You have a source for yours that works better than the last?
Anti feminists can never win arguments based on facts. You just made claims without support again and went the offensive route as always.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc Good dodge of my questions.

Do you believe your behavior is controlled by genetics? Simple question.

[msmissydc]

No I dont think so. You need an argument. You can question arguments. Questions are not supposed to make an argument for you. Also stay factual if you want a discussion. If you continue to just sprout nonsense I see that as you not having an argument anymore.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc IT's not nonsense. I'm trying to gauge where you sit on the nature/nurture scale. Because you're proposing that gender roles are SoCIEtY. I'm stating that they are not. I'm asking a question to gauge where your knowledge of genetics and how they affect human behaviors lie.

You read one study and claimed it was definitive.

here's another link that supports my claims
gizmodo.com/do-girls-naturally-prefer-dolls-to-trucks-evidence-fro-5879647

So when you want to stop dodging questions you know will contradict your world view, we can keep talking

[msmissydc]

I am confused what your argument actually is. Like do you actually read what you use as sources? I mean that source YOU posted supports my argument... again!
If you dont have time to read I am fine ending this conversation but if you want to continue maybe read what you use.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc They clearly say that male chimps have a preference for male toys. It's not a societal influence. Same with infants. That's my point all along. You want to read something else, apparently.

[msmissydc]

"So there you have it. One rhesus monkey study positing a biological and hormonal basis for gender-specific play, and another chimpanzee study emphasizing social learning… At least for now, the threads of nature and nurture impacting gender roles seem difficult to disentangle for non-humans, just as they are for us."

Quote from YOUR source.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc In their study, the researchers compared how 34 rhesus monkeys living in a single troop interacted with human toys categorized as either masculine or feminine. The "masculine" set consisted of wheeled toys preferred by human boys (e. g., a wagon, a truck, a car, and a construction vehicle); the "feminine" set was comprised of plush toys comparable to stuffed animals and dolls (e. g., a Raggedy-Ann™ doll, a koala bear hand puppet, an armadillo, a teddy bear, and a turtle). Individual monkeys were released into an outdoor area containing one wheeled toy and one plush toy, with the researchers taping all interactions using separate cameras for each toy, identifying all specific behaviors, and statistically analyzing the results.

The results closely paralleled those found in human children. As with human boys, male rhesus monkeys clearly preferred wheeled toys over plush toys, interacting significantly more frequently and for long durations with the wheeled toys. Also mirroring human behavior, female rhesus monkeys were less specialized, playing with both plush and wheeled toys and not exhibiting significant preferences for one type over the other.

[msmissydc]

This proves what? You can't name a source and cherry pick one case that supports you while ignoring the other cases of the SAME study. Also it already explained how these preferences only apply to males. WHAT is your argument here?

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc you did the same thing.

[msmissydc]

What and how? If you mean cherry picking than I disagree. I mainly used the conclusions of the articles not one case.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc lol, sure.

[msmissydc]

I do have one last question. Is it hypocritical to apply different requirements for others and yourself?
I mean you disliked me dodging questions right? How is it I never get answers? Also Saying your whole argument is based on a single case of a study that is not widely supported by the study itself is a week argument. You dont have to answer this if you dislike answering questions. Just stop applying that to others.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc I've stated my point a number of times. Gender roles are genetic/hormonal in nature and no one is "forced" into them. That's nonsense and discounts an individual's right of self-determination. This whole nonsense of "society forces gender roles on people "is utter horseshit. As is most of the feminists world view.

[msmissydc]

That would mean you didn't bring a single argument that holds to support your theory though. As is with most of the anti-feminists world view.
I asked because you brought up facts not supporting that so I questioned if that is still your point.

[msmissydc]

Also: Nice dodge of questions hahahha

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc I did. I showed that human infants and primates show gender preferences without societal influences. I also asked why seemingly the vast majority of societies also follow these gender roles.

So let's see you dodge this again. Does your personality come from genetics?

[msmissydc]

You also showed that society has influence over it in the same way. So not a singular controlling factor. Also as your first not even quoted, source said, primates dont have that much society compared to humans and still show influences from society to these norms.
Are you asking why human societies (plural?) follow the same gender roles?
Because we are a society and evolved from the same or similar part and the moment societies split in a more differentiated (countries) way, it does show that we are not always following these gender roles and people try to not follow them and succeed. Others are still trying to force them onto the genders with laws.

Does my personality come form genetics? No, I mean I dont think so. I dont have a source for that because that source would require to compare dna, categorize them and categorize personalities and then compare if these categories match. I dont think there is a study that did that.

Staying with sex though, as that is the main argument here: No it does not, because that would mean there are mainly two personalities male and female. Yes there are more but males and females wouldn't differentiate as much if it would be given my their chromosomes.
Maybe it is a bit true for gender but again trans people are proof that gender is not biological. Sex is and its not given by sex.

Also I am confused if you DO or do NOT like dodging questions?

[nawtee_me]

Because there is only two! You can call yourself whatever or change your appearance to what ever but putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it not a pig…..

[Anonymous]

Who is forcing you to follow gender roles? Honest question. I just don't see that irl. Can you give some examples?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

People like to dictate to others.

One must live life according to their own standards, not what others have to say.

[bobby_bush_eater]

Nobody is forcing anyone but they make sense. We're literally biologically coded that way...

[Unit1]

These dictators think its their place to tell others how to live their life.

[Anonymous]

I don’t see anybody forcing
Anyone to submit to gender role. Iv known chicks that want to be diesel mechanics. It’s cool but I don’t expect the majority of women to sign up for men’s work. If they want to great if not that’s okay too

[Overandunder89]

No one is forcing anything. Believe it or not, some of us still enjoy being normal.

[AngryCarl]

Who is forcing anyone to follow gender roles?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Same reason why people force others to not follow gender roles.

[Mediterraneansoul]

Where is Brad the bot when you need it. You caused him a malfunction 😂

[Anonymous]

What planet are you on? This hasn't really happened here on Earth for a very long time.

[Anonymous]

Hey, @EmyyWolf got one right. I'm pretty sure that is a first.

[Anonymous]

Nobody forces anyone to do anything. Conforming and giving into peer pressure is a choice.

[blueonblack22]

You are asking this in 2024? Seriously?

[myloveforuisinfinte]

Ignore people, do what u want to do😊

[Sameone]

Everyone have his on feitch

[Minahh]

Because a lot of societal norms are pure bullshit

[JayBones]

It absolutely is like they chose these things.

[Eleni1996]

It’s how we’re “trained”.

[whistlingwh0res]

People are crazy that’s why