Like any other "division of labor" or distribution of talent... this is the sort of thing where FEWER RESTRICTIONS = BETTER.
••• FEWER RESTRICTIONS = BETTER •••
••• MORE FREEDOM OF OPPORTUNITY = BETTER •••
••• FREE MARKET = BETTER •••
Period.
End of.
The closer we get to a totally free market, in terms of these things... the better.
You're probably right that MOST people feel MOST comfortable in "traditional gender roles", at the end of the day -- with some adjustments made for the modern world and the modern economy (e. g., housework that used to take 10 hours now takes 1-2 hours, and, it's *much* less feasible for a whole family to live on 1 income than it was 50-100 years ago).
This is why certain things -- like the ultra high percentage of men in jobs that require 100+ hrs/week for years and years and years (e. g., partner at a big law firm) -- remain stubbornly immovable, despite government incentives and quotas and bla bla bla.
but...
BUT...
butbutbutbut...
this is the most important thing...
... If those roles are really what's "best" in society, ···•••THEY DON'T NEED TO BE "ENCOURAGED" OR ENFORCED.•••···
THAT ^^
That's the point.
If the "roles" you have in mind are really the be-all, end-all that you think they are, then, people will just gravitate toward them **naturally**. If they have to be artificially IMPOSED on large numbers of people, then, that's a sign that something is WRONG with them.
... because, whenever ANYTHING has to be artificially imposed on ANY large number of people -- unless those people are children, or mentally deficient, or in obvious need of external guidance/compulsion, for whatever other reason -- that's a sign that something is very, very seriously wrong.
I mean... There are going to be exceptions, to anything.
If my own man and I followed "traditional gender roles" all the way... dude, we would not be winners at life, at all. Our particular mix of skill sets dictates that we SHOULD throw a whole bunch of those roles right out the window, while keeping certain others.
I wrote about our situation at considerable length here:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2034728-guys-would-you-rather-work-or-be-a-stay-at-home-man
MOST couples are not like us... but, again, those couples will just gravitate toward the optimal roles.
If there are
huge INCENTIVES for people to misalign their skills and talents with their ultimate roles...(such as having quotas for numbers/percentages of women in certain fields) then those incentives should be removed.
If I agree with you at all, then, that's the extent to which I do -- basically, we shouldn't offer gigantic incentives for people to pervert/betray their OWN best calling in life.
... but that's not the same as saying there should be prescribed "roles". Because, dude, FUCK prescribed roles.
That's like having a caste system -- which is pretty much the single biggest reason why India is a non-player in terms of global power, despite having a HUGE pool of intelligent (and highly economically driven) talent. Their caste system fucks everything up, by driving too many people into positions and roles that are just WRONG for them.
Any sort of encouragement of "traditional gender roles" is just going to do the same thing:
• It's not going to affect people who THRIVE in those roles AT ALL,
since any such people would just end up in the same life situation whether the "roles" are encouraged or not.
BUT
• Lots of people who DON'T thrive in "traditional" roles will be pressured into them -- and that's going to be a deadweight loss for the entire society, in addition to those people specifically themselves.
This sort of thing should be a TOTALLY free market.
A free market not only in terms of economics, and work, and all that... but also a free market in terms of dating and mating.
That way, the people who are best suited to each other, can find each other... and make awesome things happen together. Regardless of which person is doing which things.
@tyber1 There is no such situation.
As with everything else in life, the only people who ever bother to vocalize their concerns are... the people who are MOST pissed off.
I mean, think about, say, the customer service hotline for a product that makes 99.95 percent of buyers perfectly satisfied.
... STILL, the hotline will get mostyl complaints. They'll pretty much ONLY hear from that 0.05 percent. Because people don't take the time to call in and say "Hey, I'm perfectly happy with this product."
Same thing is happening here. IF there was really THAT much of a mismatch, things would start to correct themselves, because that's how societies work.
You're hearing a lot of loud discontented voices, from people who in fact make up a tiny, tiny minority.
No, traditional gender roles aren't supposed to be a bad thing. Traditionally, single women were allowed to hold jobs, but once married, she would stay at home. That made sense, because her children needed her womb and breasts for growth and development. A wealthy woman might hire someone to nurse and take care of the children, but the average woman probably just took care of her own children. The man of the house would go to work outside the home and bring home money or food. Everybody had a job. It was not a choice; it's an obligation and a duty. I think that's missing in today's modern society.
I don't think they are. I like traditional gender roles, but I also think they aren't really plausible these days. It makes more sense for both spouses to be working for job security purposes and they should share responsibilities at home. We don't live in the 50's anymore so it be hard to live like they did in the 50's.
Because women don't want to be limited in what they can do simply because of a label?
The vast majority of women are happiest as married housewives. Why change it?
That's a nice made up statistic you've got there.
Are you seriously going to debate that? Look up any study ever done on the subject. We know for a fact that women are happiest in that role.
You think you know what women want in life better than a woman does? You're adorable.
Women aren't all the same. Some want to be housewives, some don't. There's nothing wrong with either option, but gender roles hold back those of us who don't want to be housewives. If people only accepted traditional gender roles, I would never be able to have a career in the male-dominated field that I work in.
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...edom-worthlessness.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...n-happy-years-ago-.html
Its actually true, biology is something that isn't easily altered simply because people claim its a "social construct".
@hellionthesagereborn
"Yesterday’s report from the Office for National Statistics on personal well-being, ordered by David Cameron, looked at the happiness of people who are economically inactive – the class into which full-time mothers fall.
While those who stay at home scored the worth of their lives higher than those who go to work, scores for happiness, life satisfaction and anxiety levels were broadly the same."
Did you actually read this? On top of not citing the actual article, this site even shows that not only are stay at home mothers not the only ones included in said category, but happiness isn't even one of the factors that they score higher on. It says they score higher on worth, not happiness or life satisfaction...
@hellionthesagereborn the second link is just as flawed. Firstly it's not a longitudinal study so there are far too many factors at play for this type of study, but on top of that its comparing happiness today with that of those who just got out of a major world war. I don't know, but do you think that getting their family members home might have influenced their happiness slightly? In addition their happiness just dropped to the same level as men. This might insinuate that people who have full time jobs simply aren't as happy as people who stay at home. That seems a far more rational explanation does it not?
@ladsin not really. Does it factor in? Well of course, work creates stress however your ignoring everything else. Women where happier before then they are now, as gender roles where removed women have become increasingly unhappy in multiple aspects of life from romance, hence the increased rate of divorce (initiated almost entirely by women) in sex (the greater the number of sex partners a woman has the higher her probability of being unhappy within relationships among other things), to work/life balance which of course was non existent before the removal of gender roles. Then you factor in that conservatives are actually happier then liberals conservatives being the group most likely to adhere to gender roles comparative to liberals, the higher divorce rates of non traditonal house holds (stay at home father are more likely to be divorced by their wives), women who have turned down promotions to be with family report higher levels of happiness as well.
@ladsin Basically your fighting biology, men are driven to be ambitious and to provide for their families and women are driven to provide nurturing enviroments for their young. This is why single women actually out earn single men yet married men out earn married women because the women will always put career second to family, that is their priority. Men in turn work more when they have a family to provide the resources necessary to maintain their family, when either group goes against this as I pointed out whith non traditional homes, stress levels increase as both parties are now doing significantly more work when both work and care for children and also have less time for themselves and each other, and when the roles are completely reversed women and men are unhappy resulting in divorce. Biology is the reason high earning women stay single longer, because they are biologically inclined to marry up not down.
@ladsin Basically biology is king, women are more inclined to stay at home because those women who where where more likely to reproduce, the reason being is it provided the best enviroment for their offspring from less likely to have a miscarriage in trying to work while pregnant to better nourishment for nursing which meant healthier babies. Again multiple studies do support this. www.nytimes.com/.../...marriage-mean-less-sex.html
link.springer.com/.../s11199-011-0017-2
www.nytimes.com/.../...marriage-mean-less-sex.html
www.kstatecollegian.com/.../
nypost.com/.../
Fighting biology is like fighting gravity, you can claim its a social construct but no amount of protest is going to stop you from falling. Its not a fight that can be won.
@hellionthesagereborn no, what's happening here is that you are making a claim. "That nesting/ stay at home momming is biologically based." To this I respond, "what evidence do you have for such a claim." You give links, I state that those evidences are fallacious and do not actually validate your point in the slightest. You state that I don't like science, then we repeat again. The problem here is that you don't know how to properly ascertain information about the claim you are purporting and just think if you say I'm being unscientific then you win because you misread a news article.
@hellionthesagereborn
Actually, the increased rate of divorce has a lot to do with the fact that it became easier to get divorced. Today, you can just claim irreconcilable differences. That wasn't the case in the past. Couples had to state a reason, have a witness, then hope the judge would find the claim valid and grant the divorce.
@ladsin Right, you said you wanted evidence at which point I provided it. You said that wasn't good enough I need more, so I provided that. Then you said well that doesn't count because I don't like what it says so you must be wrong. Thats generally how this goes, all the studies done by multiple groups with good methodology and for multiple reasons all leading to the same conclusion must be wrong because it doesn't fit your world view never mind that men and women are different (anatomically, biochemically, neurologically, psychologically, and genetically) and are built to perform sperate but equally important taks (all of which revolve around reproduction) and that we are happiest fullfilling those roles because those who where where more dedicated to those roles which increased the odds of their offsprings survival. Its not that it doesn't make sense, or the multiple studies that corroborate it are wrong, its that you don't like what it says.
Yes but why? That's the question why is it that women who are the ones who want to get married are now divorcing so often for no apparent reason? They are dissatisfied with their marriages (plus the fact that the government forces their husbands to continue giving them money and resources even if they are separate definintely makes the decision easier for them). Whats causing the dissatisfaction? Everything I stated is accurate, backed by multiple studies which I linked to. This notion that divorce just happens is flawed. Their is always a reason for it.
@hellionthesagereborn men report higher satisfaction levels in their marriage than women, no wonder women would file more. There's no inkling that they are unsatisfied because they are allowed in the workplace though. And no, most of what you have stated has not been validated, and the links you gave that you think supported your case I showed to be fallacious.
@ladsin Yes men do claim that and yes women are unhappy but again, you didn't address any reason why this is the case, I provided evidence as to one reason why this is. As for you proving the links false, when did you do that? You said they where wrong, you stated that since the first link had other people in the group (but it was predominantly stay at home mothers) it becomes invalidated which isn't exactly true but I whent along with it and provided another. You then said it doesn't count because things change and reasons and thats why its not possible to compare the happiness of women in the past to women now, which of course is not an argument its dismissal which makes it an invalid argument.
@ladsin Then as far as I can tell with the other three or four links you just ignored outright because again, you didn't like what they said. So, no you didn't prove anything you said they don't count because you don't like them and then said you where right because "reasons" and I was wrong because, again being the only person here who provided evidence from multiple sources doesn't make you feel good so it doesn't count.
cdn.webfail.com/upl/img/e8d28a5ca50/feat1.jpg
@hellionthesagereborn oh boy. The first I said was fallacious because you only mentioned part of the group and not the group itself, in addition it said that in term of happiness there was no difference, but that members of that group could feel more fulfilled. You did not then provide another you provided both at the same time and never even discussed either, but the second I stated that the results were skewed because you were relating the happiness of women who just got back their fathers, sons, husbands, etc from one of the largest wars to right now when when we are in an economic recession. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like them, and you constantly stating that doesn't help your case at all bud. It just shows that either you can't or won't think rationally on this subject and instead decide to keep purporting a stance that is not evidentially true
@ladsin Yeah I provided those two, then you made your claim then I provided links showing that conservative women who tend to be more traditional are happier then liberal women who tend to be considerablly less traditional. I then provided a link showing that sexual interactions decrease the more egalitarian the relationship is, I then provided a link that showed that women who are with men who show what they called "benevolent sexism" i. e. where traditional in their views where actually significantly happier in their relationships. Did you forget that part?
Because by destroying the family unit and having the government take on the role of husband/father certain groups gain more power. If a woman is dependent on the government wellfare she gets for being a single mother, she votes for those who provide that, by keeping men and women out of the house and children in state run schools the state dictates the values the government wishes the child to have rather then possible counter ideologies/values that the individual parents may have. Why do you think that most people who go through the school system and go through college end up being liberal? Isn't it odd that after all of that no one has a counter ideology? Isn't it odd that if they where trying to create an enviroment for learning why are all faculty members liberal (and if they state otherwise they are fired)? Its about pushing an ideology. Statistics show that the group with the most satisfaction with their lives are homemakers i. e. stay at home moms. Statistics show that women where happier in the 50s when they where "oppressed" then they are now when they are free from almost any responsibility with all the priviliges they can take. Its all about control, feminist can't claim a reason for their existence without an enemy or problem so they constantly try and create new issues (hence feminist stating women could have it all for so long and stating that saying otherwise was sexist while they are now saying that having it all is to stressfull now and is a form of sexist oppression of women) they can't justify the money they get from donations and government, they can't justify the laws they pass if they do not have a problem so they artifically create one because the original system worked fine they now have to demonize it to legitamize themselves.
This right here. I agree with it completely
I prefer traditional gender roles. With divorce rates over 50%, you can't claim the modern approach is working. School does basically try to brainwash children into a feminist, socialist ideology. Most women would prefer to stay at home if their husbands made enough. I don't think there's anything wrong with women working (I work 40 hours a week to support myself) but everybody I work with complains about having to work, so I'm sure most women would be happier if they didn't have to work. I know I'd rather have a loving husband and keep his house all day and prepare it for him to come home than trade my time for money
@Idonthaveausername Most women would. In fact the women who say they wouldn't are generally women who have never actually made the attempt. They "know" they wouldn't like it because they have been told their entire life that its bad.
I can't stand "traditional gender roles", they are imposed by patriarchal society.
Why I hate them? Because they teach women to be submissive, which is why they never take the initiative, that's why shy guys like me can't get a girlfriend.
I love patriarchy.
Obviously :(
Opinion
37Opinion
u Actually, it is not less feasible for a family to live on one income today. The problem is that few families are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to live on one income. A 2,500-3,000 sq ft house is not necessary. Vacations on cruise lines are not essential. A family can live with one car but it certainly requires adjustments.
Living on once income usually correlates strongly with following traditional gender roles and it also correlates with children having adults much more involved in their lives. All that is "modern" is not better and everything designated as "progress" does not represent an advancement of the human condition.
They're good if both people agree to live in that kind of model. They're shit if you're just using it as a way to be a selfish prick and have everything go your way although your partner disagrees.
Not really, if you think about it, traditional gender roles have been the norm since the cave ages, just with some changes, but in the end, they're basically the same.
The man goes out to hunt (work) and brings home the food (money) to his family, while the woman stays at home taking care of the kids.
I don't think they're a bad thing, but they're not something we SHOULD stick to, it's something we should decide whether we want that life or not.
I find it funny how some women will say that of course you think it's good, cause you're a man, ignoring the fact that men fought wars to protect and give a better life to their women and kids. But I guess making a good sandwich is more difficult than going to war... xD
No it's not if that's what you want. What people normally mean though when they things like that, is that it's forcing people into specific roles, which is obviously not a good thing. Because you might think it's great but it's not great for everyone and you shouldn't shame people for making different choices in this regard than you.
And another thing, I think annoys people is when a guy or girl aggressively pushes those roles onto the other gender while not living up to their own. Like everytime a guy tells me to go back to the kitchen, I'm like gladly put on a suit, buy me a house, stop playing video games and pay for everything and I'll make you all the sandwiches you want
It's bad in a sense because it's not true that housework, taking care of kids and cook is the only thing women are good at and should do. Gender roles usually promotes women to be dependent on men, which they don't have to be. If my family lived by gender roles we'd still be poor and still live in Sweden. The breaking of gender roles has been the most beneficial for my family as it allowed my mother to be the bread winner and my dad to take care of us kids (after all my dad loves kids far more than my mum does so beneficial in this area as well).
I do think it's important for a family to do whatever suits best for their family rather than live by gender roles set by society. But if traditional gender roles work for that family it's not necessarily a bad thing, it just doesn't have to be promoted.
People think I am a feminist, I laugh. I am more traditional than people will ever know. Just because I am passionate about right and wrong on topics, I advocate for men when they are in the right, and I stand up and write on topics that need discussion and attention. This one, my thoughts go like this. Women are the child bearers. Women need to raise children. I believe the US in general was a better society when a parent was able to stay home more and raise their children. Today a family unit is a mixed bag. I believe in equal pay, I believe women can shatter a glass ceiling if they work hard, but I believe it is all about balance. and yes, there are certain roles that need to be divided... just my two cents
Nothing wrong with them. We're just living in a time where many people don't know how to compliment one thing, without demonizing another. That's why people want to label traditional gender roles as black and white good or bad. When the reality is if it works it works and there is nothing wrong with that. If it doesn't work for you, then maybe it's not for you. If you feel like society is "pushing" that role on you that doesn't mean you have to now paint that role as "bad". It's a free country and you don't have to fit into that role. It's all just silly.
I think it's because of our history as humans. Personally I don't think gender roles are a must have and that to me they don't exist. You can like them all you want and that's fine. I won't argue anything because I disagree, I respect your opinion.
I think it's because of the media also, the media plays a big part on how some people think, because it portrays from a bias opinion, it's one sided a lot of times, and most of the time it doesn't use actual facts either.
I think it's what we've learned from history and what we hear from the media today too.
Plus also how you were raised plays a big part in how you think too.
Depending on how 'traditional' you are. Most people think traditional is 50 years ago but nobody seems to question what is 'traditional'. I prefer my traditional to be a couple hundred years ago so it will beat every other traditional people by a couple hundred years.
"Dear, husband. This is your shopping list for today: 3 crossbows, 20 barrels of oil, 50 barrels of salted fish, a couple longswords and some armor. Your enemies will attack the castle soon and i will need to command the defense. You better go shopping for me or you can sleep outside the castle."
I like the 'warrior poet' gender role for men. But it doesn't exist anymore today. The "traditional" gender role for men is to be a barbarian that is emotionally stunted and careless about his appearance.
Its not traditional if you ask me. Id much rather be a romantic warrior poet type than whatever is considered the "traditional" gender role for men today.
Traditional masculinity is Ned Stark or J. R. R. Tolkien,
Give me a legolas then or maybe a masive pale white orc.
Well what if you're a girl and your life and passion is science and you want to become a scientist, but you can't because you have to take care of the kids since you're a girl. You just have to throw away your dream because your future is already planned out for you.
Or you're a man who absolutely loves kids and loves taking care of them. His dream is to become a stay at home dad to take care of his many kids everyday and watching them grow. But he can't because although his wife is able to make enough money for the whole family with a job just because a man has to work.
People don't like it when their future is already destined. Especially because a woman's brain and a man's brain are almost identical. A woman can be a great scientist and a man can be a great stay at home dad. Gender roles will throw away a lot of talent and crush people's dreams. It's great if you do want to stick to them, but only if it's your choice.
But thats not how it works. Women always had the ability to do as they wished so long as they remained unmarried. It was only married women who had to adhere to these roles and that was because marriage was a reproductive contract, it was meant for reproduction and women taking time out of their careers for the nine months of pregnancy and the several years of nursing would mean the family would starve meanwhile the man would be sitting around as a redundint parent as he would only be able to do part of what the woman could do. Your arguing against biology at this point. As for stay at home dads, most of those marriages where the father stays home end in divorce, initiated mostly by the woman because she doesn't want that (no matter how often women claim otherwise she wants a man who is ambitious and a worker). We are not built for it at least as far as family goes, hence women sacrificing career for family constantly.
no one cares. go write a book- wait because you can't because girls can't read
@hellionthesagereborn Maybe you believe this because your own father brainwashed you into believing it. I know stay-at home dads who live in very successful relationships. Besides, the divorce rate among heterosexual couples is very high in general (in most western countries, it's around 50%. I have never read about couples with stay-at home husbands having a higher divorce rate. I also think it's a stupid over-generalization to claim that all women like men who work outside their home ("and if they disagree with me, they must be lying"). That's like claiming that all men prefer submissive stay-at-home wives, which is just as untrue.
Finally, it's absolutely preposterous to say that men can only do part of what women do around the house. That's only lazy macho assholes who use their maleness as an easy opt-out so they don't have to help with anything. I can cook, I can vacuum, I can do the laundry and iron my shirts, I can't think of any house chore that only my girlfriend can do.
The 1 in 100 women who feel differently can choose to not follow traditional gender roles.
@spartan: Ah yes, did you just pull that number out of your ass? There are tons of women who don't agree with traditional gender roles, just as their are tons of men who don't agree with them either. But of course you can't (or don't want) to see that because guys like you can only see everything in black or white. Everything's gotta be a generalization.
@BlueCoyote Maybe you disagree because society has brain washed you? Whats the point of that statement? It can be as easily applied to you as to me which brings us back to square one, which is who has the facts. As for my father, no he did not in fact my parents both worked and both adhere to the general propaganda. I believe this because statistics state this as true. It shows that this is the usual way things end that if men stay at home and the woman works women are disatisfied and divorce is much more likely to occur. So, I belive it because of science and statistics not because of ancedotal evidence which may or may not be true. Its kind of like saying that since I had an abusive child hood but turned out all right abuse has no negative impact on a person. That would be an absurd conclusion to come to, hence ancedotal evidence being a logical fallacy.
@BlueCoyote Whats wrogn with your argument is that your trying to argue feelings which are completely irrelevent. You can feel like gravity is wrong, but its not going to stop you from hitting the ground. What you have and have not heard is also not a legitamate claim, again I can say that I have not heard any of your arguments therefore your wrong, does that sound like a logical counter argument? No. I have provided countless studies that all verify what I stated (on @Cool-Relax comment), and yes most men preffer submissive women and most women preffer traditional men, its been shown that these couples rate the highest level of happiness and sexual satisfaction while egalitarian couples for instance have much lower levels of sexual activity and are less happy. Your arguing against biology and evolution. Further more claiming that men can give birth and nurse a child (the only things I said a man could not do) is literally the most idiotic claim I have ever heard.
Traditional gender roles are bad when they're forced onto those who don't fit them and don't WANT to fit them. Traditional gender roles aren't a fantastic thing for women who want to be something other than a cooking/cleaning housewife, and neither are they fantastic for men who don't want to have an immense amount of pressure on them, because they have to be the sole breadwinner and make enough money to keep an entire family alive.
If you like them, there's not anything wrong. Rigid gender roles are not good. Aka when women and men don't have a choice, and feel intense societal pressure to conform to ideals that they don't like/could never be happy in. We're all individuals, so, traditional roles aren't for everyone, and they shouldn't be forced on everyone.
Statistics say that traditionalism creates a stable society, family and successful marriage. Back then traditionalism was based on logic, rationality and common sense, whereas today its irrational and centered around emotional decision making (feminism). Reasons why its a high divorce rate, one parent fatherless family epidemic and unstable society.
Not at all gender roles are good, because men and woman are different and we have different roles this is backed up by biology and science.
I fully support them.
It's proven to create the strongest societies while feminism has created dysfunction, pain and suffering reducing procreation all over the world
If you haven't done some serious research don't respond to me. I'll eat you alive and you attack grammar and irrelevant shit
i0.kym-cdn.com/.../61c.jpg
Look, there's nurds agreeing with this statement, yup, thats GAG for you.
some people like them and should be able to follow the norms, should they so choose.
some people (like me) don't care for them and should have the freedom not to follow the norms, should we choose.
if you are being coerced either way, that''s when it becomes wrong.
Gender roles aren't a bad thing... no one took a stick to your head and forced you to do anything. You still have a choice... there are just things that are expected because a lot of your gender go down that road. Personally I'm not a very traditional person but I still take on some traditional gender roles not because it's expected but because it's part of my natural character
Because gender roles are created at a time the society (and pre-societal tribes) needed them. We no longer need gender roles. I like cooking but I don't have a driver's licence, so I'd prefer a woman who can drive but can't cook to one who can't drive but can cook.
gender roles aimed at making men functional and assertive and women ornamental and dependent. so its understandable how men might have cognitive difficulty perking any issues.
perceiving.
but even though men are challenged in being objective it does not mean gender roles were good for them either.. gender roles are as it sounds reducing a person to their sex and determining hat they should be regardless of who they are. blocks individual growth. weakens peoples ability to three and be strong adults. its bad for the culture the economy the country. no one thins for themselves and they become dependent upon arbitrary rules. its like never standing up for yourself.
even though men were suppose to appear indecent they were just being yes men.
it take courage to be who you really are and a long as you're fitting yourself into a cult like mentality you can never find your strength or courage.
its funny bc america i alway boating of individualism but so many people are obsessed with 'roles' in who case its no different than countries that supposedly dictate how the citizens must behave.
keep in min you're 20 so you're speaking praisingly of a system you never were forced to live through. it was not a choice it was a law. punishable by isolation exile torture prison an death in cases.
especially for women
Eh, I think to an extent they make sense, for example if a couple chooses to have kids I think it makes the most sense for the woman to be a stay at home mom and for the man to work and provide for his family. But once you take children out of the picture gender roles become almost meaningless.
I prefer traditional roles. E. g. like I want to chill on my period :-/ not do anything just sit there... but I can't..
@airishere yes very... hurts a lot, it feels like someone punched me in my stomach, back and privates and keeps punching me every 5 minutes. The pain is so much my hands loose sensation and my legs feel numb and swollen.
@airishere I don't know why don't you post a question.
Many times I wish I was a man lol. Only recently I've accepted my gender.
I get blood flowing out of me every month for 5 days.
I get pain during ovulation when I can get pregnant.
I get pain during first time I have sex.
I can't open jars without hurting my hands.
I need a ladder for almost everything.
I can't walk as fast as a guy.
I can't get aggressive like a guy to protect me. I learnt self defence but the guys who know self defence are better than me always due to their strength.
I always get stalked followed, perved on.
Men just think when I'm walking alone they can do whatever they want.
Always scared of being attacked.
Giving birth hurts. Carrying a baby hurts.
Sex sometimes hurts if I am not aroused.
Everything just hurts... l:
I get emotional and cry randomly.
I think everyone is sweet and loving so I think stupid.
My logic goes out of window when my emotions kick in.
I get too emotional.
Not every man is tall.
Not every man is muscular and well built.
Not every man runs fast and can fight easily.
You don't get pregnant everyday.
Your periods end at a certain age and then you all are free from periods.
But a mas beard and body hairs never end and he has to either live with them or shave shavr and shave and still get stubbly prickly regrowth till the day he dies.
Some men have way way way more hairs all over the body making them feel and look like a beast.
Being next to women for such men is a nightmare because the deep contrast between his furriness and her bare skin makes him look more wild beast
@airishere ugh... its like I am talking to a brick wall. Giving birth and periods are less painful then having fur hair on your body._. I don't like what you said but I feel massive anger.
@airishere ugh its not a turn off to women._. Well at least not me, just find women who like hair
@airishere ugh.. everyone likes different things some women like hairy men... post a question.. maybe I will
@airishere its in sexual section. I've asked it.
Traditional gender roles aren't bad, if you are happy conforming to your role. For example, the traditional role for women is the nurturing mother and housewife. However, personally I don't like kids at all, I can't cook, I hate cleaning, and I have no interest in marriage. So gender roles aren't really my thing. It's even worse when other people try to force you to be something you're not.
Traditionally, men and women and even children had to work really hard to survive. Women actually provided more calories by gathering and early farming than men did.
This idea of wifey sitting at home inventing ways to make her man happy and tickling babies is actually more modern than the notion of women contributing to the family livelihood.
Here's my problem with gender roles. If a guy acts feminine or does anything that's girly he's disgusting and gay. If a man is broke and has little to no money he is worthless and a dead beat. I feel like this is what gender roles follow.
Yes... yes it is, honey.
Reading a few history books on the subject might actually help you out on this one.
Good luck!
I am incredibly familiar with history.
If that's how you want to play it OP fine. During war I'll be sure you are sent off while I stay behind in the kitchen.
I would be proud to die on the frontlines so my lovely wife could stay safe.
I imagine she, my kids, my family, and my friends would. What's your problem?
But that's how it works now?
I think you are way out of line here. What you are saying is basically exactly the way it has and still does work with very few exceptions. You seem like you would be really anxious to jump into a military combat situation. Maybe your feeble 16 year old mind might change if you were in a war torn city walking the streets on patrol and a 6 year old kid comes out of nowhere with a bomb strapped to it's body and your job is now to blow it's head off preventing from setting the bomb off killing your comrades. You used a terribly bad comparison to express your feelings on the subject matter of the question. You will improve I assume as you grow up.
@katiesmuff go back to ISIS.
It's ISIS that I would like our men in uniform to eradicate from the face of this earth and it is ISIS that would have the bomb strapped to the kid!
The destruction of the family as the functioning unit of society is what allowed the marxists to control everything
Gender and gender roles are largely socially based. They're fine so long as they aren't enforced, or people who want to be outside the norm aren't castigated for it
Nope. The feminists just want something to fight against.
Lots of guys hate gender roles too FYI. I don't think the roles are realistic, especially not these days. They aren't needed anymore.
Like another person said, it's okay if u like that sort of thing. Personally i don't have a problem with cooking dinner and cleaning once it a while but i like working too. Sooo.. A man who can help out would be ideal.
Gender roles are natural. And that is how humanity works. Only retard feminazi bitches are against gender roles
Not true. I'm against them and I'm NOTHING that you described. I have this thing called RESPECT.
I really don't see anything wrong with it. Of course it does not universally mean this must be the way it is or meant that this must always be this way as represented as not everybody agrees. Each to their own.
u No. They can be good, healthy, and constructive. Modern feminists are just looking for things to complain about it.
Gender roles used to be a necessity but technology over the last 200 years has improved our standard of living to the point that they're just unnecessary relics of the past.
I don't think it's wrong, but just accepted, not enforced anymore, so it's a personal choice now. But not wrong no.
They're fine as long as neither individual is forced into a role simply for the sake of tradition.
I think they're perfectly fine.
Now I will wait for the feminist onslaught. Yes I get it I'm a cis-gendered white male blah blah blah...
They are if they are forced or pressured upon people. Or if they serve as a way to put other lifestyles down. Or if they idealized. Otherwise, they're not bad.
It's not a bad thing if it's your choice if that makes sense , I've seen a lot of people trying to force the "traditional " lifetstyle of thier daughters or wives so..
Why does it matter as long as your happy and the other gender is
I would say no but it is when people think everyone has to follow them
they are a thing. Nothing more and nothing less. When society attempts to force individuals to confirm to traditional roles, THAT is a bad thing.
Not everyone agrees that they're fantastic. I don't like them myself and don't think they should be pushed on children.
If you like them there is nothing wrong with that just find someone that shares your views. Everyone should be allowd to do what works best for them.
For some people they are. You know what people.
*ahem* skypes
It's bad when you try to culturally and physically force men and women into these supposed roles.
That's not traditional, the woman's head isn't covered.
Is she a whore?
I'm not Muslim.
Neither was Mother Teresa... neither were women before feminism
I don't understand your point.
That headcovering is almost global tradition. Islam is just one of the many cultures (like ours) which has had headcovering since time immemorial.
Even in Ancient Rome, Greece and other Indo-European societies headcovering has always been the way
There has never been a mandate for women to cover their heads in the Christian West.
Nonsense. You're either very ignorant, or a phoney Christian trying to feminize religion because your true allegiance lies with FEMINISM and not Christianity. Christian women have ALWAYS covered their heads until feminism. Headcovering is mandated by Christianity:
"if a woman does not cover her head, she should cut off her hair. If it is a disgrace for a woman to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her own head."
"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God... but woman is the glory of man"
You are a traitor to Christians and a traitor to mankind. Your only religion is feminism.
You're fucked in the head, man.
Nice seeing you resort to personal insults in the face of facts
First you tried to twist history but when I destroyed you with facts you started the feminist's typical ad hominem attacks.
You're just speaking nonsense. There is nothing to criticize, because you're not saying anything.
Historical (pre-feminist) facts about Christians are nonsense? Biblical quotes which mandate female headcovering is nonsense? hahaha.
Wake up!! I'm not your enemy. Women are our worst enemies
You should look up "christian headcovering" before coming back here. Or are you just evil like ISIS... trying to destroy history to suit your (feminist) agenda?
Feminists hate facts!!
well of course, a mans gender roles are easier to handle than a woman's, I mean technically, we live for you so of course its fantastic. Cheers!
Is this a joke? Who filled your head with that nonsense?
@lewismh smh rofl! age: 15. have your balls dropped yet? Good luck! xD
@TheSpartan your dad, bro.
Is that supposed to be some sort of comeback?
@TheSpartan awe shucks! I'll try again later.
@lewismh do I need to you remind you have a ways to go? Good luck fuckboy.
@lewismh you don't own slang asshole? And if you haven't noticed, I dropped to your damn level pretty early on.
Me I've always hated, resented the gender role that guys have to be the initiators
Only when they're forced onto other people. You do you, others do themselves, but I ain't gonna be no man's man.
A fantastic thing for who?
For everyone.
Because unhappy feminist women like bitching about nothing.
Because they've convinced themselves that being a housewife is somehow awful.
Nature. IQ. Race. Determine everything.
Yes. Because they are sexist and immature.
They were rigorously-developed over millions of years.
I gave up on women. I wish i was gay... lucky bastards.
if women don't abide by rules then i won't either
Gender roles are neutral.
depends on who you ask
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