Nice guys and bitter men?

[carlo]

There are many nice guys and bitter men on here. The main complain I hear from women is stop bitching and man up, it's your fault if you don't get laid. I wonder whether any of these self-proclaimed mature women ever wondered there's something they are not listening to. Women tell this growing number of guys all sort of things, but not many of the women do any self-reflection and ask what's going on here that men are becoming so bitter and resentful towards women. DO you think these men are all so stupid to hateand become bitter just out of self-entitlement and childishness?

[Ingrid422]

No. A lot of men are bitter for a reason, because they've been treated wrong by women there were into. I'm very connected to men since I have an older brother which I get along great with and since most of my friends are guys. I go to an almost all-male school too, so I know how nice guys are treated most times. They aim for a girl they find attractive. They treat her really nicely. They listen to her, they give her lots of attention and they hope she'll realize what she has. The problem is that girls crave attention, and girls TOO have a problem dating a guy they don't find attractive, just like guys have a problem dating a girl they don't find attractive. It goes BOTH WAYS.

So the guy keeps devoting all his attention to this girl, being a best friend, acting like a total doormat. And after a while, he either makes a proper move on her or realizes that she's draining it all but not giving anything back. Either way, he usually gets rejected. Why? Because the girl doesn't find him attractive, that's all. She can't picture herself kissing him and having sex with him, so why date this guy? This realization often comes very, VERY late in the relationship. Waaayy too late, usually. So the guy feels led on. And usually, girls say the most tactless things in these situations. Heartcringing things like "You're such a good friend" or ''You're like a brother to me". That's sickening, and that leads a guy to believe he's been played all along and that all girls will do that to him. Girls however rarely make moves on their male friends. Why? Because most girls expect guys to make the first move, and if a guy friend doesn't make any, she presumes he's only interested in friendship. Guys however can make that whole cringeworthy situation last forever, and they end up getting hurt in the end.

[SuRpRiZeD]

i wonder why girls make such bold conclusions that if a guy doesn't ask you out that he's not interested, hmmm I don't know maybe he's shy like millions of other males out there. I upvoted your response so don't take it personal

[kangaru]

I do assume guys are not interested if they don't makethe first move...looks like I might be wrong...

[udolipixie]

DO you think these men are all so stupid to hate and become bitter just out of self-entitlement and childishness?

I do considering I find many guys are to be quite entitled and childish when it comes to gals and tend not to do any self-reflection preferring to blame others and see themselves on quite a pedestal such as how quite a lot of guys think their only flaw is niceness a self-congratulatory one.

It's quite interesting to me that for most guys it seems logical to state gals are oh so b*tchy/insert whatever negative and they only want to be used/abused/mistreated but it's illogical to state that perhaps it's not that gals don't like nice guys but that the gals you want don't want you and it's not because you're nice.

Most guys I know who are genuinely nice have no to little problem getting laid, getting dates, or getting relationships. I state most as there are a few that are quite unattractive and due to that understandably have trouble getting laid and such.

[brokenintrospection]

So many women are so bitchy and awful I don't know how guys stay as care-free/kind as they do for so long

[highondrugs]

best answer, and the only one with any humbleness from the girls :)

[cheesesteak7]

what highondrugs said

[MikeK]

Best answer.

[carlo]

You know, things will change thanks to women like you. Thanks a lot for your answer.

[circlebill]

My heart is warmed by your kind, wise statement. Bless your beautiful heart!

[cheesesteak7]

it's just such a bad overlap of cultural generations and gender expectations.

Men are still mostly trained to take the initiative and be aggressive like it's been for the past few millennia.

Women are like...still taught to not show interest, let the guy do the work...but also be more independent and yell "rape!" whenever a guy looks at you (ok I exaggerate obviously).

There's no singular gender expectation for women in today's Western (well, mostly American) culture. It's really what contributes to the more seemingly "mixed messages" perception. I can almost guarantee in the 1940s, there were no mixed messages. In the 400s, 1100s, 1500s, 1700s, there were no mixed signals. And so on and so on.

Granted, sexual/relationship interest may have been a different type of dynamic in older centuries, compared to today. Obviously rape still occurred, undesirable arranged marriages, etc. But showing signs of interest was pretty straight forward in most cultures throughout history, afaik. I don't think any Mayan warriors thought "man, this girl smiles at me a lot...IS SHE INTERESTED!?!?" or any Renaissance Italian women thought "this man, calls me beautiful and treats me well...WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?!?!"

All that being said, it's a good question, QA, about the women themselves reflecting on how THEY treat the men who approach them and whatnot. I know some do and it's fairly rational. Some do as well, but it's a pretty immature, close-minded reflection. Others I'm sure don't at all, either from naivete or straight conceitedness.

[cheesesteak7]

in short - women created this monster, and now dislike it (exceptions, of course).

[Hamburgers]

I absolutely agree.

"any Renaissance Italian women thought "this man, calls me beautiful and treats me well...WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?!?!"

Haha, I got a good laugh outta that one.

[circlebill]

to cheesesteak7 - Almost fell over laughing from where your post says:

"I don't think any Mayan warriors thought "man, this girl smiles at me a lot... IS SHE INTERESTED?" or any Renaissance Italian women thought "this man, calls me beautiful and treats me well... WHAT DOES IT MEAN?"

What a laugh riot! Yeah, the gender signals in today's world are definitely a big, big mess! I totaly agree with you and others on this thread who have had negative experiences that made them bitter! It really resonates with me! The world has gone mad! I think we now know why women were historically denied full rights around the globe. They have full rights now and what have they done with them? They chased after "Bad Boys", "Jerks" and "Assholes"! I feel bad for the few intelligent women who have to live down the "Jerk" fever reputation that stupid women created. Ah well, ciao!

[MikeK]

Here's my stance...

I AM aware of nice guys who are exceedingly polite in the hopes of getting women based on that trait ALONE - Those guys ARE idiots, and have little right to be better... these are NOT the majority of men... I live in Minnesota: Home of passive-aggressiveness, so BELIEVE ME, I know about the "nice guy syndrome" ;)

The majority of men (like me) are those who have been deceived. We're told to be ourselves - Make little changes, but remain faithful to your true self. We're courteous, but we don't bend over backwards. We're friendly, but not too nice... and we NEVER think that we're going to get laid just on politeness alone... any guy who thinks like that doesn't have a brain in his head.

The bitterness element comes to light when we realize that nothing we do works. TIME AND TIME again we toil and slave over the correct balance of being aggressive and respecting a woman's decision... WOMEN will take this balance and manipulate the hell out of a man. "He's too nice,""He's too much of a jerk," etc. etc...

Like the QA is asking - Do women REALLY think that we men are bitter without a legitimate reason? Just how stupid/selfish/unrealistic do they think we are?

[Hamburgers]

"They say they're nice but they're bitter."

No. Hell no. You are either:

1) a White Knight

or

2) a woman to say such ignorance.

Nice guys are bitter because they were DECEIVED.

Five to six decades ago, women complained of the dominant/submissive dynamic. They wanted someone who laid down their jackets over a puddle for her to walk on, to shower her with chocolates and rainbows, etc.

The feminists fought against this dynamic. And won.

Birth of the "Nice Guy."

**What women DIDN'T know, is what they want socially, and what they want biologically are TWO DIFFERENT things.**

Women HATE what men are today, and complain that men should "be more manly", blah blah.

Then men are BITTER because they were molded into something believing it is what women wanted. Then they try, try, try and are literally by definition punished for this.

It was like working 80 hard hours expecting a paycheck, and the manager tells him "Tricked you a**hole! Sue me! mwahwahwa!"

The ol bait and switch.

Finally, birth of the "Bitter Nice Guy."

[cheesesteak7]

exactly, hamburgers, akin to what I said. the cultural "progression" is almost to blame. It's like women created the monster they hate now...

[lameusername]

I know I am on my way, but trying to fighting bitterness. Between being burned, friend zones, and a whole lot of other crud, I really don't care at the moment. And I am sure some girl will fall in love with me as soon as she hears my major >=(

Yes I am nice, but honestly should become the typical *$&#(@)! Girls complain about break ups, ect. and I just roll my eyes. Like they had no clue the guy was a jerk. If someone wants someone that actually cares, I'm right here.

[Hamburgers]

Haha, I can feel the "Force" within that post. See, that's not what women here understand. They say nice guys aren't really nice, they're just mean, bitter, etc. But they don't look at the "situation" and see nice guys, and yourself, have been burned, friend-zoned, told how great of a catch you are and how great you'll be for some girl and before she can even get the rest of the sentence out she's going for some other guy and had no interest in you. Of COURSE nice guys are pissed.

[Anonymous]

Women will tell men to "do this and do that," but what if women were actually the problem?

If a guy is already a full-fledged good person, is ready to be with a woman, and displays mature traits, that's really all he can do. Everyone is different, every one has their share of insecurities, and then with that, not everyone is going to gel with the next person, so it just comes down to finding a good match.

But when your perfect match is completely shut off to you, and for hardly any good reason at all (like how most young women are today, who aren't looking for a commitment, or at least aren't looking in the right places or at the right guys for one) then where does the problem lie? Certainly not with men!

Seriously, it doesn't even appear that women are even trying most of the time. They keep finding themselves in the same situations expecting a different result. And so many are quick to jump down men's throats about how it's our fault for all of their failed relationships, when they really need to take a hard look in the mirror.

There are tons of good men out there, but women literally ignore them, when they're just good, friendly, and sociable guys, trying to make a little small talk and to get to know somebody new.

[Opinion Owner]

What I'm trying to say is that girls these days miss the mark so bad with their questionable standards. They'll date pretty much any typical, weak-minded guy way before a put-together and reformed gentleman and then wonder why they can't keep a guy in their life.

Their decisions on who they date are borderline stupid, and these aren't dumb girls by any means either! Most are very bright young women.

[Grotty]

I am a bitter man because women have prick teased and rejected me all my life and when they ask me if I am married or dating and I say no they either say don't you like women or are you gay,it drives me mad and in this world we are living in women are seen as wright and men are seen as wrong,women are always the victim where as men are always the trouble maker,if women look at men that's okay,but if men do the same they are perverts,it goes on,but needless to say my life experiences have made me bitter.

[circlebill]

Grotty - I echo your sentiments. A lot of genuine nice guys have badly mistreated and became bitter for good reason!

[Jager66]

Is it possible women, in general, have poor decision making ability?

Example: Half of all first born babies are to single mothers, this is TERRIBLE especially since single mother hood is the single greatest indicator of the children (and mother) having a bad life in nearly every way you can measure quality of life.

Since women have 100% control weather they get pregnant, stay pregnant or keep the baby what other option is there but a poor ability to make important life decisions? If it applies to her children you think they will be any better with men?

Do men resent this? Many do.

[Anonymous]

Your right I mean you never hear the tern Woman Up when its a bitter woman? Because everyone sees the woman as the victim and never the problem. You can put a lonely bitter woman in a room with 1000 different guys and everyone of them will comfort her you reverse the gender with a man and a 1000 different women and I bet 1000-1 they will all tell him to man up and grow a pair. I was just on my Facebook page and saw a pic of an old childhood friend of mines. He's the tall, athletic type with the blond hair and has a GF. But if he looked like me the total opposite Tall, fat, dark hair he probably would be single. But I'm I bitter no I we haven't seen each other in years. And I find it funny how so many women out there blame the guy for their reason for why their single.

[Anonymous]

I hate it when guys say "I'm a nice guy." It's just a tainted thing to say. I've been in those discussions before, and I specifically say, "Well, according to the last girl that just wanted to be friends, I'm a really sweet, cute guy blah blah." I never called myself a nice guy.

Point is, it just sounds bad to have guys acting like being nice is somehow an achievement, when it's a horrible thing to be. Though it is helpful to know if girls sincerely label some guy "a nice guy" because you know what to avoid being like.

Guys get burned out on dating. It happens. Oddly, burnout happens to both the guys who get rejected and flaked on and such, and the players who get tons of girls.

[Anonymous]

Women are not at fault when men don't get laid. That's just silly. No one has a right to get laid. We're talking about sex and human attraction here. The answer to the question in your last sentence is yes, no question.

That said, if these guys are having difficulty with women, the last people they should be listening to for advice are women. Men who behave and make decisions based on what women say they want from men are fools. What women say they want and reality are two VERY different things.

[Gwydion]

I think this is where a lot of bitterness comes from. Confused nice guys turn to women for advice; it seems obvious. The women say they want nice guys. The nice guy continues being nice...and fails.

[Opinion Owner]

I agree.

However, I don't blame women for that. When women say they want nice guys, I think they believe it. But what their brains tell them they want and what their libidos demonstrate they want are rarely the same things.

[carlo]

NO one has a right to be rich, or have food or be alive. What's your point? If society puts consistently one part of the population in a position to get starved, do you still blame that part of the population or do you question whether there's something going on which discrimates against that section of the population? WOmen have zero problems in getting laid having comapnionship, a great amount of men have unbeliavable problems in that.

[carlo]

Those men, me included, are deprived of one of the most basic human needs, companionship of the opposite sex, and are doomed to depression and loneliness. Suicide rates amongst men are 3 to 4 times higher than women's. I wish you to suffer just as much, then I wish to meet you and tell you "hey, it's none of your rights to get laid".

[Opinion Owner]

So what are you suggesting should change? Do you think women should have sex with men to whom they are not attracted?

[carlo]

Those men have become 'unattractive' exactly because were raised with women all around telling them to become so. To be NICE. I think many of those men are guys who genuinely care for women, who were once feminists and once grown up have realized they have been conned. Also, men have been asked to change, to review what they like in women, women have not been asked the same. Women havethe option to choose whether they want to be strong or week. A man has only one oiption, be strong or die.

[carlo]

Men need to be allowed to be weak, but they can't because they know (most) women will be the first ones to prey on their weakness like obsessed vampires, they will play with that, and then serve them with a back stabbing. Women are never asked, or not as much, to be accountable for the wrongs in society. What would you say if a man toyed with an anorexic woman? Same cose with the nice guys. Many nice guys are I think deep down kind people, yet they have been reduced to starvation.

[carlo]

Men need to be allowed to be weak, but they can't because they know (most) women will be the first ones to prey on their weakness like obsessed vampires, they will play with that, and then serve them with a back stabbing. Women are never asked, or not as much, to be accountable for the wrongs in society. What would you say if a man toyed with an anorexic woman? Many nice guys are I think deep down kind people, yet they have been reduced to emotional and sexual starvation.

[carlo]

Society says men are bad and women are good. Not so, women are sh*te just as anybody else, and will prey on the weak men like obessed vampires. They will toy with their victims and then backstab them. What would you say of men toying with anoarexic women? WOmen are not asked to look in the mirror and be accountable for the wrongs in society. Thse all seem entirely due to men.

[carlo]

I tell you what it feels like to be a nice guy. It's like being a straved dog. Someone comes along and let's you sniff a juicy bone, you start salivating right away, you even may be allowed to lick it once or twice, then you go for the bite and you are smaked hard right across your mouth and told off. you get angry and resentful towards that person. Swear not to fall trap iof it again. Then another one comes along, let's you sniff the bone, she seems nice... and the cycle repeats over and over.

[Grotty]

Interestingly you prefer to remain anonymous probably because you a feminist. It is women's fault for prick teasing men though and slagging them off for being a virgin and not dating. You understood my point but decided to try winding me up which is typical of feminists!

[dwiller943]

I'm sorry, but women know a lot more about what women want than what men do.

[kangaru]

shake head, both camps have complains against each other

i feel that life experiences tend to make someone bitter or negative and if they can;t look at the positive aspects of life this attitude will continue...

i don't think men just hate or become bitter out of self-entitlement and childishness, there are some might be as they feel it is their looks that get in the way.

[carlo]

Sorry but that's BS. Both men and women have problems e.g. in getting a job, but societyhas obsessed for 50 years now over the need for women to progress in that field. NOw you come here and compare the two things it's insulting. Women have problems in dating. Men have those very some problems, plus a number of other problems on top of that. The two things don't compare.

[carlo]

You say you expect guys to make the first move. Now, imagine a guy who is shy, can you believe the impossible emotional barrier he has to overcome if he wants to find someone? And that barrier is literally impossible, or nearly to over come, exactly because he is shy. It's a catch 22. Never heard as much women say they can't find a partner to save their lives as much as I've heard men saying so.

[carlo]

WOmen say they want equality. They don't. MOst of them, who are the bitchy arrogant ones who end up being the most listened too, want the power they did not have, and retain the power they did have. The bedroom power of women is not some sort of fictional twisted power. It is real. It is based on the other sex being leveraged on its starvation for human connection. Anything more cruel than that?

[carlo]

Anyway, I went a bit too far with you, you seem a nice person.

[kangaru]

I did not say I expect guys to make the first move

[carlo]

"I do assume guys are not interested if they don't make the first move...looks like I might be wrong..."

[kangaru]

Thats not what I meant. If the girl want to make first move by all means .I am nor saying it is a rule for men to make first move. But if that is what you think sure go ahead. Not keen in debate

[Anonymous]

People rarely put themselves in the other person's shoes. The guy gets mistreated by women his whole life and he's still expected to act like he's being treated like a king by women. He keeps getting rejected and its always his fault never women according to male and female misandrists . They tell him to do this and that, but they fail to mention that experiences may vary.

[MikeK]

YES

[Theguyoverthere]

Or the "women" offering such advice fail to see their own flaws in the mirrors they worship themselves in for so long.

[GeorgeLanceRockwell]

If you're not Black, just go to Asia where women will worship you no matter what you do. If you're a Black guy, you should develop a new masturbation lubricant or device so you can at least make money from your celibacy.

[Anonymous]

i think the guys that think of themselves as nice guys are bitter. but I think girls do have a problem with seeing the value of actual nice guys.

[MikeK]

LOL... I've never considered myself to be a nice guy, but I sure as Hell am bitter :P

[Opinion Owner]

jhahhaha

[highondrugs]

well women def are much ruder than previous generations.. so it goes bot hways

[Romanv123]

are you high on drugs? and if so, can I have some? hahaha

[cheesesteak7]

what highondrugs said

[highondrugs]

roman meet behind the second alley at 10pm

[moviedude714]

basically, responsibility has always been associated with being masculine apparently

[Anonymous]

Alot of guys just whine of that self entitlement that so many guys think they deserve. Bottom line, they are always lacking something which is most likely looks.

[highondrugs]

looks hardly matter.. too much proof to deny it either

[cheesesteak7]

what highondrugs said

[DynastyEmpire1990]

Damn, you guys just got told by her,lol.