The Morality of Jealousy

[dude64bro]

I've been thinking about jealousy. I've always heard the term that seeing your partner get jealous is good because it shows they love you. But then again, I've often questioned what love really is. Sex is not love, I know that for sure. And I know that people can have sex without loving someone. So love is often portrayed as someone wanting to keep someone all to themselves, thus jealousy is praised.

I've always been curious though about if jealousy and envy should be considered a proof of love in relationships. After all, it is a very prideful emotion, stemming from selfishness. Some people even go so far as killing the very one they claim to love to stop anyone else from having them.

In this culture, jealousy is praised, as men fight over women and women lay claim to men, but it's not proof of love. People mistake jealous reactions as meanings of necessity, "so then they must love me".

I've always tried to suppress my jealousy, as much as I can. But in every relationship I've been in, my companion wanted me to get jealous. Why? From Hollywood to our home TVs, we are taught that jealousy is a valid indicator of love, but I've come to the realization that it is far from it. Those that say they love you and let you love others have the most pure form of love. (Sex should be monogamous though due to chemical releases that will cause problems if done with more than one person.) Trust should be a basis for how we should judge someone's love.

Tell me what you think in the comments, if you have experience or a conflicting opinion.

[Anonymous]

If you have jealousy then you have fear. Fear that your partner doesn't love you as much and fear that you think you aren't enough for your partner. If you have jealousy then you have control issues, and want to control them because you think they are going to stray. Like a child whom might get out of his crib and wake you up in the middle of the night, you want to build the walls of the crib higher to keep the baby in the crib... out of fear and a desire to control.

For God did not give us the spirit of FEAR but of POWER, LOVE and self control.

Power to be accepting and understanding, to be content with oneself and one's spouse, love to not assume or accuse or to degrade, self control on ones voice, actions and words.

now I would HATE a really jealous husband... someone whom is always snooping everything I have and accusing me all the time of cheating. annoying as eff.

[dude64bro]

Can I get an Amen? I like this answer a lot, lol.

[Opinion Owner]

Amen

[BuckWild]

I was that man. I trusted my wife 100%. I didn't snoop through anything. Not her computer not her purse not her phone not her phone records not her mail not her car I always believed she was going to the places she said she was going to and I did that because I myself would like to be treated that way. We were married for 12 years and we had two little girls together. Exactly 24 months apart. Plus four days. I had everything planned out so that I had a rock-solid career so that she could stay home with the girls. Our cars were paid off. The house was halfway paid off. We had zero credit card debt. Life was good.

[Opinion Owner]

@BuckWild and then...

[BuckWild]

Additionally, because I'm one of those guys who's not afraid of children. Infants in particular. I felt that she worked hard during the week and that she deserved to blow off some steam on the weekend. So Friday nights were her night to go up to the karaoke bar in sing karaoke because it was her favorite thing to do and she is a fantastic singer.


I thought I was doing a good thing for my wife and family in general. I have spoken to some women that said it was a shame they didn't meet me 15 years ago because evidently was unusually supportive.

Ah, but I did use the past tense "thought. No... Not all was well in paradise. Yeah, she was cheatin'. With my best friend. Well I guess that's naive of me to say he was my best friend. And so naive that I trusted her at all. It looks like she was cheating for the entire 12 years. She didn't exactly cover her tracks. Why? She knew I loved and trusted her completely. It was Open Season. I was hurt. But I will respect my next girl the same...

[Opinion Owner]

@BuckWild that's sad, you met someone so low

[BuckWild]

As it is she has a very bad psychological illness that has similarities to both narcissists and sociopaths. It's called BPD also known as borderline personality disorder. People are starting to become aware of this disease so just buy typing BPD it's going to make about 300 people vomit in their mouth. BPD is an old term because they didn't know what to make of it so they called it borderline personality cuz they felt it was on the borderline of something and something else. The short story is they basically hunt people like me. People who actually keep their wedding vows and actually go to work everyday and go grocery shopping and do the laundry and do the dishes and they sit back and do nothing but they put on pretty good dog and pony show so it appears that they're busy doing stuff, like with the kids but what they're really doing is there trolling Facebook all day for hookups. They also take an obnoxious amount of selfies. Our shared psych confirmed that she was batshit crazy.

[Opinion Owner]

@BuckWild sounds like you figured her out. It sucks that you had to go through with it.

[BuckWild]

I truly appreciate it. When all was said and done, she had done bad things to my brain. Some people actually empathize with me and some people treat me as if such a situation is not possible. As in it's not possible for a female to psychologically abuse email to the point that he has PTSD as in the same type of PTSD that soldiers get. I swear she would threaten suicide like everyday. I have to come home from work to take care of my girls because my ex told me on the phone that she wasn't feeling mentally stable and she didn't know what she was capable of. One time she actually mentioned that woman Andrea Yates that drowned her five boys in the bathtub in Clear Lake Texas. I don't think I've ever driven home so fast. I couldn't get visions of my daughters being drowned in the bathtub out of my head. After shit tons of therapy I realize now she was just getting me to come home so she could take a nap. So I basically enabled her behavior and I feel like an idiot For not seeing the truth.

[Opinion Owner]

@BuckWild are the kids with you now? You were tricked, and there are some tricky people out there. You didn't know because you were I. Love. Did she have any help? Like a grandparent? I am also wondering if she had untreated postpartum depression? How old were your daughters?

[BuckWild]

I'm really sorry for my late reply on this one. I'm in Texas and Texas is pretty conservative. However I got half custody. 15 days out of a 30 day month. Not many men in Texas get that unless their ex is incarcerated. I would argue that my ex probably should be incarcerated. But so far she's kept her nose clean and I guess I mean that in every sense of the phrase. My girls just had their birthdays and they turned at 9 and 11. They are my world, my pride, my joy, my everything, I'm glad I had to do all of the hard work with the girls. You know all the stuff from Day Zero. You got to love making the formula, feeding the little one and then saying a prayer that you get a good burp. Not vomit down your back. And not one of the burps that seems like the perfect burp but then they vomit it all up anyway. The sour milk smell or vomit milk smell is very unique. And that's really a tough situation when you're also trying to work full-time. Any man who refuses to change a diaper is lame.

[BuckWild]

But I love that I had to do it. Men and women typically form different bonds with their children as mothers and fathers. It was hard freaking work. Having two that young only 24 months apart. But as a guy getting to do the traditional Mom work with my girls, I basically became mr. Mom. I formed that Mom bond that I think really only moms know about. My dad basically said tell me when he's 8 years old and we'll toss the baseball around. I have such a tight relationship with my girls that I don't even know how to explain it because really only moms and other dads who've gone through what I've gone through understand it. When you got the mom Bond... You've got the mom Bond. My ex also had the mom Bond But she had to share it. And she was not happy about it. My youngest was born in September of 08 and my ex went into the mental hospital one month later with postpartum depression. And so she wrote on that until they basically said this can't possibly be postpartum depression anymore.

[BuckWild]

Then there was a mental institution for a stupidly orchestrated fake suicide attempt. Then there was two months of dialectical behavioral therapy also known as DBT which is the only known therapy for somebody with borderline personality disorder. Let me tell you that worked out really well. That's when we learned that my ex-wife was bisexual. As what I term Affair number seven after doing all the research... #7 turned out to be a girl in her DBT class which was 3 hours every weeknight for 2 months. So many of those days she would call and say that she was going to be late because she was going out to blow off some steam with this really cool girl she met in her class. Hey no problem I've already got the kids fed, bathed, 2 stories read, and finally asleep.

[BuckWild]

This thing that really gives me long-term depression over at all and the post-traumatic stress is really grounded in the fact that I was a dumbass doing all of that work while she was basically boning in the town so I essentially enabled her to be able to do all of the crazy shit she was doing. Just take a sharpie marker and write stupid on my forehead. This story is beyond crazy. I have it all documented. There's not a thing I've said that I cannot prove with either a video tape, audio tape, or records of texts, emails, phone calls, daycare records, Hotel bills, Etc. I say that because somebody actually challenged me once because it's a pretty tall tale. In fact it was in my divorce seminar where one of the other students in the class called bullshit on me and said there's no way a person can be that bad. Well, my PTSD diagnosis is for Real and good thing I kept all of that evidence for legal purposes because I did have to use it. Just call me mr. Mom. I'm a regular Michael Keaton.

[Myquietsoul]

Jealously is not necessarily bad. I mean, if you your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife started flirting with someone else or vice versa, you'd obviously get a little jealoys because you love them and wouldn't want then to start getting feelings for anyone else. In fact, I say people who never get jealous are suspicious However, when it starts getting overboard to where they can't talk to anyone else, then yeah, that's where it gets bad

[thesunstillshines9]

How are people who don’t get jealous suspicious?

[Myquietsoul]

@thesunstillshines9 Because it's like showing that you're already checking out of the relationship

[thesunstillshines9]

Or it shows you’re sercure

[Myquietsoul]

@thesunstillshines9 It could but I also believe there's nothing wrong with a little jealousy. It can show you love someone and some people are just more sensitive than others. I don't believe it's this evil emotion that people like to make it out to be, as long as it you don't overdo it and become controlling

[bruble]

If you feel jealousy it means you feel the person is doing something wrong. That is already controlling wanting them to do what you want. You are worried they develop feelings for another? You do not trust them or their judgement. Jealousy is a relationship breaker not maker.

[Myquietsoul]

@bruble I don't believe that's true. Many people get caught up too much in the extreme part of Jealousy where the person becomes controlling. But it's possible to only get jealous in certain situations like if your partner was talking to another man. Any guy who has even the slightest bit of love for his girlfriend/wife would get jealous at that situation. If the person you're with feels no kind of jealous no matter what you do or if you flirt or spending a questionable amount of time with someone else, they're either stupid and naive or just don't care

[BuckWild]

I think you're spot on. I really enjoyed reading your take on the whole jealousy thing and I found it to be well thought-out and refreshingly honest. I must admit that I have also spent an enormous amount of time pondering the same thing. Empirical evidence it's the only thing that really sways me so I don't put much stock into what religion has to say or peoples opinions on the matter. So I try my best to stay scientifically minded and observe without judgment. What I've come to believe about jealousy is that it is essentially mate guarding. Unlike women, men are not able to know for sure that they are the biological father of their offspring. And I think we can all agree that the recent technology of paternity testing doesn't count here. The only thing we can do as men is make sure that our mates don't get too friendly with other men. To put it in the simplest of terms, our primary mission objective as organisms is to propagate our genes to the next generation. In the animal kingdom, human males have perhaps the greatest to lose if they're are cuckolded by their mate. Human beings have the longest childhood period of any other animal. The current scientific understanding of this is because of our brains. Other animals of similar and even larger sizes grow to adulthood much more quickly. But we need the extra time to learn and many societies consider that 18 years. The currency of life and survival is calories. Human males that are unwittingly duped into raising the progeny of another will bear an enormous cost to bring another man's genes to the next generation. And if you've ever had the pleasure of reading some of the works by Richard Dawkins you know that genes pretty much run the show. There are many methods that men employ to make sure that they are not cuckolded and one of the easiest is mate guarding. Jealousy. That primal urge to put the beat down on any other man that's looking at your woman. That jealousy causes you to lash out against that individual and sometimes even your mate. Whatever it takes to not invest millions upon millions of calories on genes that are not your own. Mate guarding is a strategy used by the males of many species. But humans tend to be a bit more complex then other species. Obviously we can't be with our mates 24/7. It becomes very complex for us. So mate guarding isn't the only strategy we use. A number strategies are in play. I think that you are right and that one of those strategies could be separating sex & love.

[FemWorship]

It's only good if you are intervening in a pass to prevent his temptation or making it clear he's taken. Beyond that, you'll only make things worse and more attractive if banned and it can become a sickness most can't cure.

The ones most affected have experienced thievery of
their most prized possession growing up, be they dolls, etc.
best friends sleeping with boy friend
boy friends cheating
all adding up to indefensible losses, as if can't turn that faucet OFF

They have excellent tapes/CDs to help cure this faster than greedy, no-help counselors, so play these in car while nothing else constructive to do.

Learn to flirt and then realize how it's just fun & complements, doesn't have to be more than that

Realize that if it's to be a loss, it never was a true match that lasts forever & must easier to maintain.

[ThisDudeHere]

" to prevent his temptation "

Is that not his job?

[DeeperMeaning]

Jealousy is not love, all jealousy stems from some sort of insecurity and selfishness. I do not believe all jealousy is bad, but it's definitely not a measurement of love.

1 Corinthians 13 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

This is what love is.

[lovelyhoneybones]

I COMPLETELY agree with you. In the past I've had the same notion that you have written about here, jealousy is a form of love but that couldn't be further from the truth. Honestly I hate feeling jealous over my boyfriend. There's no good in it, it just makes me paranoid and mad at him for the smallest thing. Even if he talks to other females about NORMAL things, I get jealous. I love him, and I want to feel happy about other people liking him but instead I'm just jealous because he can't focus all his time and attention on me, which is completely unrealistic and ridiculous.

A small form of jealousy is okay, but not when it gets to the point of you becoming destructive.

[dude64bro]

It's cool that I you wondered about the same thing. I'll be honest I'm not a very jealous person naturally, but it got me thinking about the relationships I had been in, my girlfriend would get upset if I didn't get jealous.

[lovelyhoneybones]

I remember I used to try to make my boyfriend jealous on purpose because I felt that was the only time he really cared. Till this day I'm ashamed to admit that to him. It's also a whole thing I've making him feel the same way I feel when he does things that make me jealous. We both hate feeling jealous, we're both ashamed of it. I think a lot of girls have the same mentality; jealousy equals love.

[dude64bro]

That's probably a good thing that you both hate jealousy. I've actually found that people blame their partners for their own jealousy, which is very interesting...

[lovelyhoneybones]

There may be times where I blame my boyfriend, but I know that isn't his fault unless he's intentionally sitting there flirting with another female, then that is his fault. For the most part though, it is me. I have a lot of problems and I think that's mainly what causes my jealousy.

[mjz00]

hi, my very first thought is the saying, jealousy is the shadow of greed... I've always appreciated that expression... it is most often referred to in relationships but spreads far and wide... i have it and i dont like the way if feels and how it can make me think dark devious tormenting thoughts re a partner lets say so i try to accept its a part of me but do not let it get the better of me, in ltr i have had those thoughts of checking a phone for instance but refuse to do it.. because by doing it im giving it power and growth and it will do no good... if i struggle to see an essence of purpose if under control one could perhaps feel it as some sort of measure of feelings it can hit you like a bolt i have it about my daughter and her dads girlfriend but i have to stand there and swallow it down like a jagged little pill, for her xx sorry for the waffle im still learning haha xx

[ATuairiscean]

I disagree with the popular theory that jealously proves you love someone - Jealously to me is a negative and destructive emotion - I am more a "If you love someone set them free and if it is meant to be they will return to you of their own free will"

[damnwinter]

I think people do not give enough importance to the actual reasons behind jealousy. Yes, some people are simply insecure, but not everyone who gets jealous once in a while does so because they are insecure. It's also a matter of boundaries and even common sense.

[bente2]

Envy and jealousy are very different things! I’ve always rather liked dan howells explanation on the two. Jealousy is wanting to keep what you have while envy is wanting what someone else has.

I consider myself to be quite envious. Which is bad. But you know, 🤷🏽‍♀️.

I also consider myself to be quite jealous, even over people that aren’t “mine”. Or my friends. I have a best friend and when she makes new friends I am very aware of my position and how to behave.

[Blonde401]

Jealousy comes from insecurity. It has no place in a relationship. If you're jealous and insecure you shouldn't be dating full stop. It's really unhealthy.

[serious]

@Blonde401

You have a very good point there.

However the thing, almost everyone will have insecurities, there are very few people, rarely you will find somebody who won't have even 1 insecurity, like the person would be 100% secure and confident in all areas of their life. Such a thing is very rare indeed.

The point I am trying to make here is it's not about the fact if a person is insecure or has insecurities or not, it's about how they handle their insecurities effectively.

Hence if a person is insecure but if they know how to handle their insecurities effectively, then that is also good.

[Blonde401]

@serious but not everyone who's insecure is jealous. And yes everyone has insecurities but there's a level where if it's that bad, you need help, not a relationship.

[taleswapper]

Jealousy and envy both stem from the misconception that affection is a zero-sum game. That somehow, my partner being attracted to or by someone else somehow means that I have "lost" some degree of her affection It's just not true. Or if it is, you're with the wrong partner.
I've been in polyamorous relationships. As long as my needs are being met, and I'm not being shut out by artificial scarcity, I'm okay with it.

[kmg6987]

I think if the your significant other was made to feel beautiful/handsome, wanted/needed, and had no reason to feel like that girl/guy your dancing with is a threat to your relationship then there would be no jealousy. Jealousy is a horrible thing to feel, and is very ugly characteristic. I don't know why anybody would want their partner to feel that they have to compete with others to maintain what they have.

"Treat her like you're still trying to win her, that's how you'll never lose her."

[FreshOutaIdeas]

But there in which the foreboding tragedy lies... Hate to sound overly "poetic" but once a man and woman have declared their "love" for each other, then they should have already reached a level of trust in which they do not feel the need to question whether the man/woman will stray. What your saying in essence, is that women seek constant validation, which in a long term relationship, shouldn't be needed. This need for validation all the time comes from insecurity, but as I've already said, there should be no such feeling when two people are in sync or "love". Insecurity is the fucking bane of all relationships as well as friendships. As a man, nothing turns me off more than a woman who can't have a moment's self-sureness in her own attraction to me...

[kmg6987]

I understand what you're saying but even after 10-15 years of being with someone, there is still a need to show the other person that the want is still there. It has nothing to do with being "insecure" or needing validation, but rather showing that there is still affection and love in the relationship. I've been with my boyfriend for almost 15 years and I have no doubts of him "straying" but if he didn't still show affection and appreciation, I could see where him talking to another woman or dancing with another woman would get under my skin and have a sense of jealousy. I wouldn't consider it a "need for constant validation" or being "insecure". It's just not possible to be with someone for a long time and not show affection and expect the significant other to not get a little jealous/hurt to see you dancing with someone else.

[FreshOutaIdeas]

I also understand what your saying, but affection and appreciation in such a long term relationship (for example sake) should just come naturally, I know full well what your saying about how women's' minds work is no doubt true - I know from my own experiences with you gals - but as a fella I just can't help but ask that question; why do women often undermine their own confidences in their relationships through what is basically a form of controlling behaviour. Even when that other person is the one you care the most about, even when you KNOW there is nothing to worry about, but deep down you know that there is not one thing you or any of us can do to stop the other from *potentially* "cheating" - even when the guy is unquestionably loyal. This fear I think, is what drives the irrational emotion of jealousy.

[bruble]

For me you do not love someone if you desire to restrict them from any pleasure. In any relationship you should strive to free your partner and allow them to know they are free and you should desire the best for them not be jealous of them. If they choose to be monogamous in the relationship that is up to them so I agree with the article Jealousy is not love nor is helpful

[CoffeeGirl456]

Jealousy is not care or love, but its not bad, it is so amazing that also have in animals habit too.

[jumpingbeans]

I am jealous a bit, I want my partner to be crazy about me as I am crazy about him. :)

[Nik1hil]

i think the term you are looking for is Teretorial

[jumpingbeans]

@Nik1hil territorial yes I believe so.

[Nik1hil]

i am sorry my bad in typo

[DiegoO]

My ex was like "why you don't show jelousy?". I never did because I trusted her. To be honest I am not sure how much she trusted me. From the beggining of the relationship she acted that way.

[Juxtapose]

Jealousy is born from insecurity.

If a partner trusts you, why would they be jealous?

[LifeEqualsLove]

Sometimes jealousy can be healthy

[serious]

@LifeEqualsLove

Jealousy can never be healthy. Jealousy arises from insecurities, so insecurities and jealousy are directly proportional.

[Anonymous]

Cool Take

[Anonymous]

Cool read

[red_knight]

Then explain pain?