Is Chivalry Dead Among Relationships Today?

[sakummu]

I've noticed that today a lot more men don't want to treat their partner in a relationship "right" just because we live in a modern society where everyone can work and basically do everything themselves - simply said chivalry is not that much required for when dating. And by "right" I mean being thoughtful of what makes her happy and trying to apply that in his behavior towards her, being caring and wanting to help out and take care of his partner and supporting her by providing, professing and protecting.

The bigger issue for me is that a lot more women claim they don't need chivalry in their relationship, but how would your partner show you he cares for you and loves you if he doesn't actually show you with his actions. When women cut away the idea of "chivalry" just because they don't need it, that doesn't mean that men should absolutely abandon being a gentleman. I also used to think I don't need a man to be acting all "chivalrish" and stuff, but when I saw how rude most men have become due to the fact that society doesn't require chivalry anymore when dating, and I was shocked and I couldn't help myself feeling unappreciated and mistreated all the time while being with such guys.

I'm saying this also because when you start dating someone, you don't really know the person and what she likes and doesn't like (to be able to determine how she wants to be treated), what she accepts as behavior and what she would not tolerate. And obviously "chivalry" is quite universal and would only help you if you really care about the person and show them you would want to impress her anyway you can.

I want to point out that I'm not talking about men opening doors and jars for you 24/7, or buying you flowers every day - every person has his own take on chivalry and every woman wants to be treated "right" in a unique way. My question is more to "Why men don't try to understand how his partner wants to be treated and then treat her the way she will feel happy, appreciated and loved?".

I don't think the argument "chivalry is not needed" is valid if you love someone because chivalry is something really positive that could only benefit your relationship, make it stronger, longer and happier. So why not bring chivalry into your relationship behavior?

I have been with "boys" that hadn't figured out how to properly be gentleman and treat me right or and with guys that refused to at all (those relationships were not healthy and happy ones for me). To be honest I don't see the point of being into a serious relationship if the person is only bringing me sexual pleasure without making an effort to be a gentleman, a provider, a protector and someone I can feel safe with and to bring out my full potential as a woman/wife/mother, because a serious relationship is not based only on sex.

I'm really surprised and by the fact that a lot of men think that if they are "gentlemen" and they give from themselves (time, support, money and etc) they need to ALWAYS get something in return - as it is some kind of deal. I mean obviously a relationship is balance between two people but I don't think it's okay to say your partner owns you and DEFINITIVELY has to give you back the same things that you've given her - I'm not saying that a woman should be using you (as some women abuse "chivalry") and would not give anything back in return. A woman also gives a lot to the man in a relationship.

I'd really like to see your opinions on this topic which is really important to me and please let we all communicate with respect to one another here. I'd love it if I could see a little bit more detailed answers that could help me out to understand better your way of thinking.

Thank you for reading this <3

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

I consider myself a gentlemen and I am dam proud of it! I don't care about what feminism or society think about it, I will always be like that. And that is final! I mean, how badass it is to be a gentleman? Spoiler alert: a lot! Think about it... You are the men! You are the freaking men! So when you hold a door (and don't stare at them when you do so let them stare at you as they pass), when buy a flower, when you run for 5 min in the rain to get the car and bring it closer to the restaurant so she doens't get wet (true story me and her forgot our umbrella), you are suposed to fell badass, you are suposed to fell like the men!
Chivalry is well, alive and kicking. I love being a gentleman I feel like a freacking boss!

This is not for the girls to give us nothing! I do, some of this things for any girl and women I am with. I fell like it's right and polite to do and again I feel like the men. If she happens to hold the door for me fine I don't feel less for it, they can do these thing for us too, I don't feel my dick smaller for it like some guys. Guys believe me, the good ones take pride in making their men happy just like we do in making them happy! When I hold a door or when I buy my fiance a flower besides her smile. When I get home late from work and my faince made a dish she know I love she does't want anything besides my smile either. Get a girl who you can be a gentleman with.

Now many, many, way to many guys are scared of doing this thanks to some feminist ways and behaviours today. My friends, if she is just using you spot it and dump her. If she doesn't like to be treated like a lady, but you want a lady, dump her! No really no problem! Why would you stay with a girl that doesn't match what you desire for your life long companion?

Stay men and gentlemen! You can be both.

[sakummu]

Amen ❤️

[Anonymous]

Nah If I'm head over heels for a girl I'm not afraid to grand gestures for her.

[sakummu]

Amen brother ❤️

[Goodwifie]

It’s not dead in my marriage it’s just different from when we were dating.

[OlderAndWiser]

Chivalry will never be dead as long as I am alive!

[Monster_Recluse]

From a guy's perspective.

Opportunities to learn how to treat a woman are rare. If you are from a family with divorce, which is more than half of families, you were shown a bad example of a relationship. God help you if your parents ressent each other and you learn some of that hostility. Also let's hope YOU don't have hang-ups about women because your mom was the one that initiated the divorce (which is the case in 80% of them).

If public education says anything it will be them telling me to not rape women and given some overblown talk about sexual harassment. You are also fed terrible ideas about how there is no fundamental difference between men and women, it's an idea seeped into all education. But understanding how to treat a woman needs to be rooted preciously in seeing how my thought patterns as a man differ from women.

If I'm a nerd, which I am, I stay inside with my computer where there are fewer women. So my opportunities learn about women from first hand experience were limited.

The best internet advice about how to interact with women is from redpill/pua websites which is also written by losers who have some serious hang-ups about girls, so the good advice has ugly misogyny mixed in with it. Good luck not absorbing any of that.

Not only are opportunities to learn how to interact with women few but the opportunities to learn how to hate them just seem endless. Whiney boys online who are upset they can't have a woman so they want everyone else to be as miserable and spiteful as they are-who hang out everywhere trying to find opportunities to spread their venom. Basket-case "Feminists" that go around saying they are speaking on behalf of women while spewing man-hate and wanting to fuck up my video games purely because they know men like video games and fucking things up men like is their life's goal. High divorce statistics and a legal system that makes you risk losing your kid, having to pay massive alimoney, if the woman just decides to leave you for literally any reason (I live in a state where all it takes to get divorced is to pay a small fee to the state, no questions asked)-that is enough to make many men give up on the prospect of a serious relationship. Especially if they came from a divorced household and saw it happen first hand. Than there's false claims of sexual harassment and rape which can completely ruin your life. I had a cousin that lost a 6 figure job when some psycho woman decided to #metoo him. From a man's perspective you need to understand, if you merely get accused of being a sexiest/molester it's already too late. The company will not wait to see if you are innocent they will just drop you the moment the accusation hits to cover their own ass. All of this goes to pollute the general image of women, especially when it becomes propped up as some victory for woman's rights by man-haters.

[TonyBologna25]

I can understand the frustration from the female point of view, but what you have to understand is that men are being punished for acting in chivalrous ways. There are too many women that will take this for granted, give none it in return, and eventually lose respect for the man.

From my dating experience, I feel as if women expect men to fulfill their gender roles, and do nothing but get offended when you bring up theirs. Sort of a thing where women are getting offended to make sandwiches, but we still change the oil in their car without even being asked. So many modern women are offended by feminine nature these days. There needs to be a balance.

I would love to be in a relationship like the one you're describing though. I'd love to go all out. I want to provide for her, give her the opportunity to stay at home with the kids if she wanted that. Be that rock she can lean on. Give her stability. I'd love to just be able to give because I want to and not have it get taken for granted or disrespected as a result. If I'm giving all that I can give, and she can't even make me dinner after working long hours, then that tells me that she doesn't want to put in the same amount of effort. We live in a very selfish generation as it is, but it's hard to be chivalrous and have your girl act in a selfless way in return these days.

[sakummu]

Really liked the way you put your thoughts. Thank you

[MrOracle]

The majority of women, who I believe always wanted chivalry, allowed Radical Feminists to take the lead and set the agenda, and those women screamed loud and often that they don't want anything from a man and that men should treat them the same as anyone else (aka like a man). This was particularly true from about the mid-90s through the 2000s. Things tended to be a bit more sane at the start of this decade.

But, when women spent 15-20 years screaming at men that they wanted to be treated as equals, they shouldn't be surprised that chivalry is mostly dead, because chivalry is explicitly NOT treating women as equals.

I'm old enough to have had women scream at me (in real world situations) for holding a door or offering my seat to them - things that don't happen too much anymore except on college campuses - but a ton of men had those experiences and they said "screw it, I'm tired of being yelled at for trying to be nice."

Women need to decide how they want to be treated - and you can't have it both ways - and then let your men know what you want. Otherwise, men are mostly going to choose the path of least resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IMKyIj0_oU

If you try to have it both ways, you're going to get neither.

[sakummu]

Thank you for your answer.

[Ellie-V]

In my opinion a man being chivalrous just means he lacks self respect. And not one time did you mention what the woman is to provide. You never went into specifics about what a woman should or will bring to the relationship that compliments the chivalry.

And I understand that you probably have a more traditional perspective but when you look around, things are evolving. Men should not have to provide for you or coddle you to make you feel “safe”. You are 22 (supposedly).

It is your own responsibility to take care of yourself. And in a relationship, BOTH of you are supposed to support and “protect” each other (emotionally). You are making this look VERY one sided like you as a woman don’t have to do much. Why can’t the woman give up her umbrella? Why can’t the woman open the car door for her S/O? Why can’t the woman give her dude some flowers? At what point is the woman supposed to show her love? Chivalry is not needed. Why? Because the concept itself is disrespectful to men and only serving to women.

The whole gender expectation needs to be done away with. You don’t deserve having your door opened for you when all you’ve done is smile and be pretty.

Demonstrations of love should not be some cookie-cutter formula. It’s really just up to the individuals. But to place a ridiculous, shallow standard on all men is completely unfair and unnecessary.

And a guy not being chivalrous does not make him a “boy”. Maybe you are a bitch, or maybe their intentions were not clear enough. There is such thing as love languages, and they don’t all apply to everyone.

And No I do not think chivalry is dead but it needs to die. Soon. Although I 100% disagree with your opinions on this subject, I still enjoyed reading it. I just wish you would have made this into a mytake instead of a question.

Good work ☺️👌🏾

[sakummu]

I'm talking only for the male side, because this is what concerns me. I can talk A LOT about what a woman can bring to the table. Also i haven't said when you receive chivalry you lack self independence. I have said quite clearly that a man and a woman can live two absolutely independent lives. I'm not talking about chivalry as someone being superior over the other.

[sasukeuchiha7]

That was a pretty good answer. I like the perspective

[MrOracle]

Ellie-V:

[MrOracle]

And to make it clear, I'm agreeing that there has to be a balance. Women can't demand the advantages of feminism and equality AND the advantages of chivalry, because those are opposites.

I've been with women who were more "equality" based, and they didn't expect blind chivalry, and that's fine. I've also been with women who were traditional, valued chivalry, but knew that came with expectations for HER as well as for me. That's okay too.

But a lot of women want it both ways, and that's not okay.

[jeffbb26]

You hit this entitled bitch on the head!

[zayndan]

You struck some key points here. A society is never better than the previous. What ever the youths see in relationship as normal, is where they will set the bar, and so chivalry as died down. Now, many guys/ girls treat relationship as a contract, A give to get back, because many guys, myself included, we seem to be giving our all, and never get anything, no appreciation, no thank you for our thoughtful gestures. Many women feel that that is our job, and all they should do is receive. They don't often think about chivalry towards their man as important or necessary. Now, a lot of women give their all and but in fair work, but its mostly never in tangible things. And because of this many guys think they're being left out because they can't actually see where their woman is giving. Now, society has bred as it were 'players' etc. And many girls are drawn for whatever reason, to bad boys. And so good guys finish last. I've seen many a good guy change just because they think that their irrelevant for today's society. And part of becoming a 'bad boy' all this chivalry and nice guy ways and put to death. What I'm saying is, guys are thinking chivalry is being a softie, and then society is telling them no one wants a softie. Now, a lot of girls out here go with guys because they're struck by his handsomeness or what have you, never taking the time to know him. And end up with guys that don't really know how to show love, and wonder why he's like that, and why men are like that. Come on.

[SnapTsch]

Just to shed a light from the other side of the table, have you ever thought of the possibility of even the guys having had previous relationships or experiences with women who. just walked all over them and abused their chivalry, leading to them not wanting to offer it anymore?
Every coin as two sides.
Women spent the past decade or two shaming men for chivalrous, shaming men for being protective by calling them jealous authoritarians. I dont see it as much in women , but in men, we learn from each others experiences.
There are chivalrous men out there, they are just not the ones that you are gonna find hooking up just for sex or trying to pickup girls at the club.
Maybe, just maybe, you might be looking for the right thing in all the wrong places.
Just a thought, if it seemed snarky, I apologize, I just wanted to display the other side since you seemed interested in engaging in the conversation.

[sakummu]

Thank you for your answer.

[SnapTsch]

You are most welcome, if could spare the time, I'd like to hear your response on it.

[JohnAlaska43]

I agree with you.
As a man who had dated many women who dont want chivalry. They have treated me less as a partner in the relationship I still never stopped trying to be a man. Women today just dont understand or want meaningful relationships. Ill never stop holding doors, Ill never stop scooting in chairs and treating a woman right. I care about how they feel but my experiences with women are not that great the ones I find dont care about men the want to demasculate them to their play toys and nothing more.
Its hard for me to find a decent women who want to be treated right.
Or plenty find my kindness as a weakness.

[FatherJack]

" A woman also gives a lot to the man in a relationship."... in the case of the marriage I ended , yes... but NOTHING positive , plenty of stress , aggravation , being taken for granted and her being a lazy burden. As a result I am a single dad , still working FT.

Also , have been kicked by a nasty young woman... for the " crime " of holding open a door , most , esp young , women NEVER say thanks for doing this , just a contemptuous look , ironically it is other men that say thanks. My daughter has made me aware that girls are subtly indoctrinated into viewing males as inferior / females superior by the education system , plus the " media " reinforces this. If you treat men with contempt and as disposable utilities... then do not expect positive treatment in return.

[sakummu]

I'm sorry to hear that. Not every woman is like that.

[winterfox10]

Not totally, but it's definitely on the decline. I try to be chivalrous with my girlfriend, but you can tell it makes her a little bit uncomfortable. I can't tell if she's just bad at receiving gifts, or if she doesn't want to feel like she owes me anything, or like I'm trying to buy her. If the issue is that she doesn't want to feel like I'm buying her, I would be really hurt that she would think I'd put her in that position.

[sakummu]

Yeah I've seen such reactions from girls and from myself as well when i was with less experience with guys.

[winterfox10]

In her defense, she has definitely been straight up used by a lot of people. But I feel as though I have shown her that I am not like that enough times to warrant a more relaxed response.

[sakummu]

Good for you :)

[Xavixk]

Well you don't really explained much about what exactly these guys failed to do... You do say how ever:
"without making an effort to be a gentleman, a provider, a protector and someone"

This sounds like you prefer the more lets say "traditional" form of a relationship...
Where the husband makes the money and the wife takes care of the home, like in the 50's...
And yes those types of relationships are less common, then they used to, but there are still plenty of guys that wan't that kind of "old school" relationship, so just try to establish earlier on whether the guy wants that or the more modern kind.

[ShadowofRegret]

I do wonder how Chivalry has come to exclusively mean gallantry toward women considering it emcompassed far more than that...

But as for my answer, I believe that feminism has effectively killed off such treatment, imagine how it appears to a man when a woman says that she expects a man to do so much for her, and yet, claims that because of "equality", she does not really have to do anything for him.

You cannot claim equality and special treatment at the same time, if you desire equality, then you must do things yourself as that is how men have done it for thousands of years.

So if you desire that men treat you in such a way and equality, then in the name of equality, you must treat men the exact same way (pay for each other's meals, open doors for each other,) otherwise, you are asking for special treatment, and that is not equality.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

To me chivalry is well, alive and kicking. I love being a gentleman I feel like a freacking boss! No really when I do things like open and holding doors for them I feel like I am a man, like I am doing what a men should do. Yes they should do stuff for us too, but the thing is they do! Bitches that believe themselfs to be queen exist, but then so nice guys that want a blowjob just for holding a door. I don't expect nothing whrn I hold a door or when I buy my fiance a flower besides her smile. When I get home late from work and my faince made a dish she know I love she does't want anything besides my smile either. Get a girl who you can be a gentleman with.

[ShadowofRegret]

@ThisIsMyOpinion
I was not saying one cannot do such things, I was mostly referring to those types who try to abuse the whole thing to get the best of both worlds.

For example, she wants you to pay for all her dinners, yet does not want to cook for you because that is "reinforcing gender roles", I suppose you could say the double standard is what I was referring to.

I believe some women are worth doing such things for.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

Wants me to pay, but doesn't want to ever cook for me for not reinforce gender roles? That is hypocrisy. Not the kind of girls one wants to be a gentleman to. Like you said, and very well, there are girls out there worth that

[ShadowofRegret]

@ThisIsMyOpinion
I suppose I should have been more clear on that part...

My apologies.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

No need to apologize at all my friend. I was bias too since I meet so many girl haters here.

[ShadowofRegret]

@ThisIsMyOpinion
I certainly do not hate girls, in fact, I believe it is better that both genders get along, I just think that some people from both genders can be hypocrites sometimes, and those were the types I was talking about.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

I certainly agree with that.

[Oram52]

I am chivalrous in my relationship and would continue to be so.

The thing is societal structure has simply changed so much being chivalrous is not compatible anymore. Many women don't want it but more importantly feminists killed it. From feminist perspective its Benevolent sexism.

Guys are also asking what equivalent of chivalry do women bring into relationships. Don't forget women have also stopped putting effort in their appearance, feminism has told them its a bad thing. So they can't complain when guys drop their standards as in what they offer in return. Women are becoming less feminine.

Even if Chivalry is not completely dead it is slowly on the decline. I do try to be gentleman though and would continue to be chivalrous. Many women still appreciate chivalry. My lady is special.

[Oram52]

Can i ask what does protector mean to you.

[BBubbles]

It's dead and buried. You can thank the feminists for this. I'm more inclined to hold the door open for a fellow gentlemen, than some bitch that can't even manage to say, "Thank you." I've held the door open a thousand times for guys, and not ONCE did I not get a thank you. If you do the same for women, you'd be lucky to get a thank you 10% of the time. Fuck that. I let the door slam in their faces.

[sakummu]

Wow okay

[BBubbles]

I hope that doesn't apply to you, but you'd be surprised what it's like on our side of the fence. It boggles the imagination how these bitches can't manage to muster up a simple thank you, for someone who just did a kind act for them. I was once in a parking lot, and a female crack head came over and asked me if I'd help her jump start her car. I glanced over to the left, and saw her lazy-ass boyfriend sitting in the car. Why did he send her over to me? Because she had a nice rack, and he didn't. I told her to fuck off and drove away. Chivalry isn't really dead, but it's something that should ONLY be reserved for women you love.

[jessture]

Yep I don't hold the door at all for women anymore. Too much risk in something that simple. For fellow guys I always will, they won't stir up drama over it

[BBubbles]

@jessture
Women made their bed, and now they can lie in it.

[jessture]

Yep exactly

[kingofthellamas]

Totally agree. If you hold a door open for another guy he will thank you because it's a decent thing to do. But if you hold a door open for a girl she won't perhaps because she thinks your making a move? I don't know. You just can't do a decent thing without the girl thinking you want something ( and to be clear, I'm gay so I really don't)

[BBubbles]

@kingofthellamas
The girl can go fuck herself and the horse she rode in on.

[SkipStop]

👍 I had the same experience. Always a friendly "Thank you" from the guys and rarely any response from the women.

[BBubbles]

@SkipStop
Those bitches did us a huge favor.
Chick: Excuse me sir, my car won't start and I was wondering..
Bubbles: Fuck off...

[sakummu]

@BBubbles
What if you had a daughter and she needed help (with her car and she doesn't know how to fix it herself) and i man reacts just like you in your last comment with the car example?

[BBubbles]

Then she needs to pick up her smart phone and call her dad, uncles, cousins, brothers, or grandpas.
But to expect chivalry in this day in age, is like expecting the fat fucker in red to crawl down your chimney on Christmas. It ain't gonna happen. Chivalry is dead, and women killed it.

[PursueWisdom]

I open the door for the elderly when ever I get the chance, but for college girls... hm, not so much.

[BabyBirdy]

All the men I’ve dated do this and I expect it.
The thing is.. hyper feminism is getting out of control. There are women who get mad when a man offers his chair or opens her door, etc.

[A-man-22]

Chivalry is dead because we became equal.

Men used to treat their wives with chivalry because they were seriously disadvantaged.

But since modern times women have achieved equality and thus have no need for extra hand outs.

There is also the fact of women not wanting to be chivalrous back.

If chivalry is not to die out then women must start being chivalrous to men, then we can "trade" chivalry or otherwise no chivalry should be traded.

[sakummu]

A relationship involves two people - even if your partner is financial stable, can take care of herself and etc, would you treat her to feel special and appreciated (not saying "chivalry" like opening doors and jars)?

[A-man-22]

If I got that care and respect in return , definitely.

I have no problem with chivalry but I do think it should be "traded" rather than forced upon on side.

[Lance1965]

Women are slowing killing chivalry by the way the average woman treats men. It is rarely appreciated and has become another part of the self- entitlement world that so many of them live in.

[J2ohhhhh]

I have long limbs and low body fat so I can have cold feet quite easily, but I used to take the socks off before sex. I didn't get the appreciation for getting cold feet. Guess what? Now I take the socks off only after sex. As others not bringing out your full potential you might do the same to others. Make us feel comfortable as a gentleman and I will act like one. Tho I love my sock too much for now. I wouldn't change that, but I can be moyr attentive.

[sakummu]

I don't think being a gentleman has anything to do with taking or not your sock off when having sex, but if it's that important to you i guess you need to explain to your partner your condition and I'm sure a lot of girls will have sex with you even with your sock on lol

[J2ohhhhh]

Yeah ofc communication is important. A typical first date:
You know that there are two types of men, right?
What do you mean?
One who takes the socks of before sex and the ones who takes it off after sex.

If she asks what's the point of taking off after sex we have a second date.

[sakummu]

She might even suggests nobody is taking their sock off during, i mean quality right xx

[J2ohhhhh]

That would make me a gentleman if you know what I mean.

[lightbulb27]

Chivalry is alive, I think it isn't taught or as valued and demonstrated as it once was on society. I open car doors, open doors, pull out chairs sometimes. I do these things, women have trained me... I got no training at home, and women appreciate it. I don't know where people get idea chivalry is dead.

now in regards to holdign umbrella over her, nope. I hold her close and snuggle under umbrella. nobody gets wet that way and stay warm!

BBB - Bye Bulgarian Beauty!