A Rebuttal to the Idea that Nobody Should Use the Term "Cheating"!

A Rebuttal to the Idea that Nobody Should Use the Term

“The term “cheating” is erroneous and stupid and no one should use it.”

This is the title of a MyTake by @Thatsamazing. I was originally writing this as a comment, but I got a bit carried away and figured it might work better as a MyTake, purely for formatting purposes. This isn’t a personal attack or anything, I respect this man’s opinion. I’m merely responding with why I believe his claim is inaccurate given the arguments he has made through comments on a separate question and within his MyTake, which you can find here: The term "cheating" is erroneous and stupid, and no one should use it.

The Basics

I’m going to try and answer this in the most organized way possible. I am going to reference the original MyTake, but it should still make sense regardless of whether you've read it or not. Let’s start with paragraph 4. Let me just say this: I am completely for people having multiple partners if they choose to, whether that be casual hook-ups, an open relationship, polyamory, or anything else, provided all those involved are aware of the situation. I’m also completely for people being monogamous if they choose to be. Be part of the relationship type that suits you and your partner(s). It shouldn't be any more complicated than that!

The initial argument is on the basis that because something is programmed within us, that gives us some sort of right to ignore any boundaries or expected rules within a relationship. Because we evolved to pass on our genes through impregnating many females, that is what we should be doing nowadays.Essentially, the core of the arugment is that we should forego anything we've learned that isn't part of our biological programming.

Should we do everything that we’re biologically programmed to do? Should we only do things we’re biologically programmed to do? This idea that evolutionary processes that come naturally to us overrule anything we’ve learned through our conscious explorations of societal models and processes, as well as the subjective nature of morality. It also ignores the fact that our evolution is drastically behind our changing environment, possibly by as much as 10,000 years!

Rules & Laws

If I attack you on the street because you have your arm around a girl I like, is that acceptable? After all, my inability to manage rage is largely influenced by my genetic make-up and is something that has evolved through countless generations as a defence mechanism, all of which has been necessary in the past to successfully pass on genes. What if a female is relluctant to mate with me? Can I use my larger, stronger build to "convince" her that I'm the alpha and what I say goes? After all, if we’re only going by what we’re biologically programmed to do, then we’re programmed to breed through whatever means necessary and you’ll find that intimidation was a large part of our distant-ancestors approach to mating and still is within the animal kingdom.

The only part of the MyTake that counters this is the idea that a rule must be written down or orally agreed to in order to matter, that once something is illegal, it doesn’t matter whether we’re programmed to do it or not. The poster even mentions consent issues and violence as examples. So, if monogamy was the only legal approach to a relationship (hypothetically) would that mean that you’d consider it fully acceptable to repress biological urges? Is “law” the only thing, in your mind, that separates our evolutionary programming from societal standards and norms?

In a response where I’d asked whether writing a rule down or making a rule official is the only difference between it existing or not, @Thatsamazing responded with:

“What do you think "rules" are? If they aren't written down or agreed upon with a handshake and an oral contract or whatever, no, they don't exist. And why? Because then I can change them to be whatever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want. That's not how the concept of rules works.”

Again, this MyTake is NOT meant as a personal attack, and if it comes across as such I do apologise. However, this idea of rationalizing behaviour on the basis that “nobody wrote it down or explained each aspect of these rules to me” is childish. Where are the rules for holding doors for people or giving old, disabled, or pregnant people seats on public transport? Where are the rules for washing your hands after using the toilet in a public restroom or the rules for not spoiling movies for people as they wait to enter a movie? The fact of the matter is, some “rules” are simply expected and are unwritten. There are behaviours and attitudes that you would consider immoral or wrong despite the fact that they aren’t breaking any laws or going against any agreed upon rules. I'll come back to this point towards the end.

Difference Between Being Honest & Lying

When we get to paragraph 7, the claim is made that we shouldn’t even inform potential partners of our desire to sleep with many women/men. I can understand that to an extent. However, there is a difference between being completely misleading and telling the outright truth. Sure, you don’t have to tell every single person every single thing that goes through your mind at every single moment. Marriage and the idea that bringing it up on the first date would result in a dust cloud as the other person bails is an interesting choice. Interesting because I do understand what you mean and actually do agree with your example, but only when such a topic is brought out of the blue and with the expectation that that person is who you are going to marry.

If you were to ask a woman on a first date what her long-term plans are in terms of a relationship, she would likely tell you that she wants to get married one day or have children or just buy a bunch of dogs. Such a topic doesn’t necessarily come up on a first date, but if it did then there wouldn’t be any reason for someone to lie. So, if someone asks you the same question, I can only view it as fair that you would also answer truthfully under such conditions as not to deceive someone into believing that you’re looking for something monogamous. You don’t have to tell them “I’m just screwing around because human evolution has programmed to do so” but that’s different from leading someone to believe that you’re hoping to settle down with a single partner.

The Dilemma

At the end of the day, there are plenty of people of both sexes looking for the exact same thing. I’m in an open relationship and I’ve had no problem finding single people who are still into the idea of going on dates and hooking up, despite my relationship status. I mention this to them prior to even going on a single date!

Using the “people can’t be honest” excuse is just that: an excuse. You don’t want to put the extra effort in that would result in not only finding more compatible partners but avoid emotionally harming others along the way. I agree that you don’t have to tell the whole truth all the time, but that doesn’t mean deception is acceptable either.

If someone asked you on a date what your long-term plans are in terms of a relationship, would you tell the truth?

The Relationship Rules

My disagreement would be this: relationships have rules, despite what the author of the original MyTake may claim. These rules are explained as a relationship develops. In the initial stages of “dating” someone, you’re not expected to follow rules because they have not been established through discussion. If that person requests that you both become exclusive, then you are expected to be exclusive. If, at that point, you don’t wish to be exclusive, then you can disagree with the expected behaviours that follow such a dynamic.

Similarly, if you’re in a relationship with someone and they are expecting monogamy (which is the dominant relationship style in the Western world) but you’re expecting something else, then that’s something that needs to be discussed. Simply choosing not to mention something because you disagree with the idea of monogamy is simply idiotic. I don’t agree with marriage, and I make that perfectly clear from the beginning. Similarly, a general lack of communication between you and a partner is not an excuse to do something that you know they view as being morally wrong, even if to you it is morally acceptable.

As I mentioned in a comment, all relationship types have rules, even if you’re denying that they do. In a monogamous relationship, you’re expected to be loyal to your partner and not engage in sexual or romantic activity with any other person. The extent of these rules does vary from relationship to relationship, but they are there nonetheless, and there is certainly a minimal expectation to follow within such a dynamic. If you’re in an open relationship, there are rules. If you’re polyamorous, there are rules. Even friendships have rules.

Friendships

I’m going to end this point by explaining why I don’t think your MyTake is accurate or justified by following on from my last point about friendships. You may tell me that there are no rules in friendships, that anything can go. Friendships, after all, are relationships. Rules don’t need to be spoken, they don’t always need to be agreed to, sometimes they just exist as the default position, but that is something that has to be established within any relationship between those involved. Failing to do so simply leads to conflict and suffering.Especially when one person simply chooses to ignore these rules because they don't agree with the concept of unwritten rules.

Let me explain with an example: If you slept with your best friend’s mom or dad, would they be ok with it? What about a sister? What about a girlfriend? Unlike laws or school rules, relationship rules don’t follow a laid-out structure or adhere to a consistent list of consequences. Those within the relationship will judge you for your actions and you will be held accountable based on them.

Simply stating that because nobody informed you of a rule through an oral agreement or a contract, you can therefore ignore all the examples where we follow rules that haven’t been established up-front is highly inconsistent with reality. Granted, I don't know how you treat your friends.

I’d be particularly interested in what @Thatsamazing thinks of this final point: would you sleep with your best friend’s girlfriend and feel that it’s morally acceptable because 1) you’re genetically programmed to reproduce, 2) you didn’t agree with your friend at the start of your relationship that you wouldn’t sleep with any of his girlfriends that he may have in the future?

Semantics

The final argument made within the MyTake relates to semantics. Apparently we need to remove the stigma associated with the term “cheating” because it inhibits people’s ability to flirt, have sex with more that one person, and have open sexual discussions with partners.

Firstly, I’d point out that if you’re in a relationship with someone and can’t have open sexual discussions, then that reflects on your relationship, not the use of the term “cheating”. Secondly, find a partner who doesn’t mind you doing these things you’re searching for, then it isn’t cheating. If a couple in an open relationship sleep with other people (agreed between themselves) then it isn’t cheating. So this argument around the term “cheating” doesn’t actually make sense.

Finally, a comment from the @Thatsamazing in response to my point surrounding the difference between romance and a relationship was this:

“And what is the magical difference between romance and relationships? It's just semantics, sir. Nothing more.”

This comment alone highlights an inability to acknowledge something that is the very basis of the argument. Romance happens naturally, it can happen between anyone, it’s a feeling, an emotion, it’s excitement. A relationship is a label that describes a connection between two or multiple people. Clearly, there is more than semantics at play here!

#BakedHaggis #CammysMyTakes #Relationships


4|4
67

Most Helpful Guys

  • 16 d ago

    I think it comes as simple as this: How many agree, that the term cheating is erroneous and nobody should use it?
    I'm confident, that a mere vast minority do.
    And those, who do likely aren't concerned with (monogamous) relationships that much if at all.
    Either that or they are the type, who are favoring open relationship, polyamory or are agamous/single by choice. Or "cuckolds" is also a possibility.

    And that's when i say, that it's okay/nothing wrong with it, as long as they don't bother the rest of us with using that term anyway.

    0|0
    0|0
  • 16 d ago

    Agreed. Saying, ''dere r no rules on paper so I can stick my penur anywhere hur dur'' is just a cheap excuse.

    2|1
    0|0

Most Helpful Girl

  • 16 d ago

    Very well written rebuttal thank you for sharing ur point of view

    1|1
    0|0

Recommended myTakes

Join the discussion

What Girls & Guys Said

55
  • 16 d ago

    Yay I'm special.

    You're essentially arguing that humans shouldn't be human-- I'm arguing that arguing that is pointless, since humans are human, and humans are animals. It's not logical to say that certain other animalistic aspects of sexuality (girls liking being submissive, males liking being dominant, girls wanting to be pursued, males wanting to DO the pursuing, etc.) are okay and fine, but then oh yeah monogamous sexual relationships should be the norm. Um... sure they should. That must be why half of marriages fail, a huge portion of which are because of a loss of sexual gratification/attraction/etc. Not related at all, I'm sure.

    Sigh. The only "haven't we EVOLVED over the last 10,000 years?" thing that matters is "yes-- we shouldn't be violent and kill each other just because we're mad at someone." If it's not related to hate and physical violence, it's not as big a problem as people make it out to be. People need to accept and understand the part of themselves, and others, that says "I don't just want to have sex with one person the rest of my life." And hey if magically you do, and that works out for you, then great-- it doesn't work for about half of all people.

    0|0
    0|0
    • 16 d ago

      Not really, I'm saying that as humans we should simply have the choice to pursue the relationship type we desire. As I said on several occaisions, I'm completely for people choosing to sleep with multiple people, I'm in an open relationship myself. You're putting words in my mouth and making it out that I'm arguing for monogamy, which simply isn't the case. I didn't once say that monogomous relationships should be the norm, nor did I speak against anything other than monogamy.

      So I'm happy to discuss what I said, or your opinions in general, but almost nothing in that response actually addressed the points that I raised. You also didn't answer my question:

      Would you sleep with your best friend's mother or sister without asking for his approval first, and if you did, would you feel that it was morally acceptable to do so?

    • Show All
    • 16 d ago

      That's fine, that's all I wanted to establish.

  • 12 d ago

    Whoever wrote the original Take is just trying to justify being a piece of shit who is incapable of being loyal.

    2|1
    0|0
    • 11 d ago

      i am sorry i just laughed its soo true xD

      if ya ain't loyal dont date simple as that

    • 11 d ago

      @hana12 “cHeaTiNg can't bE a WoRd uSeD”. It can be when monogamy was agreed upon.

  • 16 d ago

    I remember that original MyTake. I have to agree with it in so far as "cheating" seems to be a catch-all phrase. Unless the partners have agreed to a monogamous relationship, then ""cheating" does not apply. If I met a girl for coffee today, and go out for dinner with another tomorrow, I am not cheating on either because I am not committed to either. If, however, I agree to be in a monogamous relationship and stray, then yes, I am "cheating" whether it is human nature or not.

    0|0
    0|0
    • 16 d ago

      Exactly, that's sort of the point I was trying to make. If you're just dating someone, there is no obligation for you to be exclusive. As I mentioned in the MyTake, these are steps that are taken within the relationship. However, if you're in a monogamous relationship and that is the expectation of your partner, then seeking sexual gratification elsewhere would be considered cheating.

  • 15 d ago

    Every time I ever see that guy he's on some crusade against the English language. Don't know what his problem is

    2|1
    0|0
  • 5 d ago

    This a off topic question but where do u get these images from when asking a question

    0|0
    0|0
  • 13 d ago

    Is anon-ymous1 @Thatsamazing?

    0|0
    0|0
    • 13 d ago

      Someone else pointed that out as well. He didn't respond to me when I asked if he posted the exact same thing from two accounts

    • 13 d ago

      Kinda looks like him but he was paler in the last accouny

  • 16 d ago

    Cool take

    0|0
    0|0
  • 15 d ago

    Good take

    0|0
    0|0
  • 11 d ago

    We women are narcissistic masochists. We hate it when things are going well, especially if they continue to go well for long periods of time. We know down deep that we are fucked-up and not worthy of anything that is truly good. So when things are going well in a relationship, we eventually sabotage it. We just can’t help ourselves in this regard.
    We could have the greatest, most handsome, most well-hung husband in the world—a one-of-a-kind man who makes all of our girlfriends jealous; we could have the greatest children in the world, who are beautiful, well-behaved and ambitious; we could have the most enviable career imaginable; we could have all of the money and prestige and the truly good things in life, and we could repeatedly tell ourselves over and over, and believe, on the surface, that we would never cheat on our husbands. But down deep we know that it’s a lie. Because one day, we could walk into a grocery store, and some bad boy could whisper just the right combination of words in our ear, and the next thing you know, we’re at the Motel 6 getting it in the ass. That’s just how we are, and any woman—especially a hot woman—who says otherwise, is a liar.
    We want a man whom we can’t have. We want a man who honestly doesn’t give a fuck about us, who doesn’t care if we come or go. That’s the kind of man we will pursue. Call them bad boys or call them whatever you want, that’s the kind of man we want – period. The kind of guy who will make us orgasm, crudely, and give us a huge sexual thrill in the bedroom, and then discard us like used toilet paper, and fuck our female friends afterwards, just because he can. (Just like we would do with his male friends.)
    We lie about not wanting men with large penises. If we told the actual truth about the number of different men and women we’ve slept with, and if we told the actual truth about our fervent desire for big dicks, our pool of potential suitors would shrink drastically, to the point where it would completely dry up. So we lie. Most often, we will claim that we’ve had between three and eight sexual partners in our lifetime. And, to our way of thinking, it isn’t a lie, because if we had five sexual partners last Saturday evening, and our man asks us how many sexual partners we have had, and we answer, “Five”, well, technically, we aren’t lying.
    A woman will do just about anything, sexually speaking, so long as she is fairly certain she won’t get caught. For example, we will occasionally go out of town in order to rendezvous with a man we’ve been longing to fuck, and/or to have multiple sex partners in the same evening, and/or at the same time.
    This is something most women do, most especially. In our minds, it is a natural desire, and a natural thing, and so long as nobody else finds out, it’s “game on”. Women are receptacles for cock, that’s how we have been biologically designed. Nothing feels better to us than being completely filled up with multiple penises, than being the center of sexual attention, than being the object of unbridled group lust. Since it’s something we can’t risk doing on our home turf (don’t shit where you eat), we have to think outside the box, in order to get our boxes completely satisfied. And you might find this shocking, but many women – many, many women – have sex with dogs on a routine basis. This is just one example of how insatiable we truly are.
    I can see why you might not believe it, to which I say, look really hard at all of the women you know who have dogs. Look at women who have dogs whenever you see them out on the street, in the act of walking those dogs. Or at the park. You will notice that most of them have male dogs – the vast majority, in fact. This isn’t a coincidence. And look at all the female teachers who are exposed in the media for having sex with underage students. We have no self-control when it comes to sex – or anything else, for that matter. To our way of thinking, losing control is what makes sex great

    0|0
    0|0
  • 15 d ago

    Wasn't there a guy named Anonanonymous who wrote almost the exact My Take on the term "cheating" or is it the same guy with a different account. ?

    0|1
    0|0

Recommended Questions

Loading...