Working together - the differences in working with women and men

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

In the experience of my father's and my own professional and political work I've had the confirmation that when it comes to work and the method, women and men are really different. That's not a bad at thing at all! But understanding those differences is key to make the step to properly lead the team, use all the human elements to the max profit and make them feel valued and essential. Naturally it's just a general discourse, not all people are the same and those just observations matured during my work.

- Women take more notes than men

I've noticed that whenever me or my father are making observations or giving instructions, be it on field trips or meetings, women are almost invariably the only ones writing down notes. Men tend to just nod and make other affermative gestures, but they write very little. I'm not kidding - some women write down even the laughs and the jokes, or when I clear my throat, while getting a man to write down something seems to be asking them to jump out of the window. The quality of writing is particularly appreciable since they keep better the details of the requests and instructions made during the meeting.

- Men comment a lot more than women

Men tend to comment more on what me or my father are saying, and ask questions, while women are usually more silent. This sort of ''counterweighs'' the women's writing habit - we get an immediate feedback and can see the impact that our decisions have on people, if only in that room for the moment. While women offer comments and suggestions mostly when prompted or asked, men do it on their own - sometimes to the excess.

- They give different feedbacks

The nature of the feedback women and men give is different. In my experience men focus more on the end result and the net of a particular projects, while women focus more on the how to reach the goal and the details of the method employed.

- Their approach to one-on-one meetings is different

Sounds paradoxical, but in my personal experience it's a lot difficult for me to get men one-on-one. They have to make group around me, it's like they are uneasy to talk with me alone. With women is a different story, not only they are more comfortable, but they frequently ask me to give them five minutes. This is a mistery I still have to figure out.

- Work lunches and aperitifs are different

Again, paradoxically enough in my experience women tend to loosen and relax much more and quickly than men. Maybe I have something that puts off men, I don't know. But it's much easier to get into confidence with women and illustrate them my projects and instructions to reach the goals and set new ones. I see this as a half success, because ideally I should be able to communicate with men like that too, and manage to get much closer to them. Not having a close communication with more or less 65% of the work cadres seriously impedes my projects.

Naturally it's my intention to keep working and multiply my efforts tenfold to make sure I'll be up to date with everyone in working for the community.
Thank you for reading, and feel free to comment!

[AmandaYVR]

Very interesting! This is one of the more interesting mytakes I've read on here.

I read it out to my husband and we chatted and here's some of our combined comments:

* The men are not writing things down because while you're speaking, they're already thinking, 'Fuck that, I'm goona do it my way.' [or try] Women are more likely to be compliant. They also don't seem to be as bothered, or overwhelmed, with details. They're used to more verbiage.
The ones who are writing down jokes and coughs... are nuts. OCD or reaaaally insecure. They need to chill. It's a lot of wasted emotional energy.

* The commenting: he agrees. "Most of the girls on our teams are crickets... silent. I don't know why."
I suspect they can't handle being the focus, drawing attention to themselves, in a group setting. Females don't like overt conflict, and want to wait and form their opinions more carefully before speaking publicly. Judgement really gets to them.

* Interesting about the feedback.
Yep, I think men care more about outcomes, and minutia/'talking too much' drives them crazy. Too many words, too much chatter, so much delicacy of tiptoeing around different peoples' personalities and strategies on dealing with them is more annoying and they think wasted energy. Guys might be a bit more independent, and girls are tad more cooperative? Girls are also more timid, and they tend to be in support positions more often than management, so they are self-conscious and not wanting to overstep. They're picking up on lots of power and interpersonal dynamics, what talks are happening. They'll analyze it in their minds more thoroughly later. Whereas guys almost want to not let themselves be trampled. There are hierarchies. There are hierarchies with girls too, but it's more within their gender, not so much with the guys. Competition tends to stay within the genders.

* We don't know what the meetings thing is about.

* I have noticed that on gag you have a larger female following than most males. And females tend to comment on your topics more than men do. This is very unusual. It's almost always the inverse. And I have actually wondered why that is. I came to the [rough] conclusion that it's because females don't feel threatened by you, in a sexual way. You are not gay, yet you are a male who doesn't come on to them ever. And I think that puts their minds at ease that no topic is really off limits.
Although you counter that with your previously vicious temper and sometimes fighting back or blocking (but not always), and I also always noted that you do seek advice, something most men tend not to do nearly as much. There's more of a self-reliance/pride with a lot of men. They also tend not to dole out advice to each other as much. Whereas women get caught up in the 'drama' of relationships and personal dynamics. They hate more innate interest in these things, and therefore more patience for following ongoing stories... almost soap-opera-like storylines. I think females become invested in you. ?

Anyway, great take. I like that someone had the guts to write about this, and you do it in such a way as to be very fair and unbiased. Nice job. 👌

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

Thank you for sharing your kind words and opinion, they are always acute and in-depth observations and I wholeheartedly appreciate them! I also really appreciate that you read this with your husband, I'm happy to hear his comments and opinions as well! I too read or show things on G@G to my wife as well, but she's not too interested. The things I don't show her are the PMs, but both you and her know that nothing weird goes in them.

Yes, there's a couple who literally write down everything and that's weird. My father says it's because they want to have everything at hand and even keep track of the things to get certain reactions out of us.
I understand, so women in his team too don't comment much? I agree with your observations. I think they want to think it over and also weigh in things before making their ''move''. Not that there's such an environment were people risk being ''torched'' for a mistake, but naturally there's competition as they think about their future and their career - missing a chance that won't come back, surely that puts some tension on them.

I agree on your next point. To be honest I appreciate the men's direct approach, sometimes it's really required. But as always the middle ground would be ideal - give the right weight to details while also not losing ourselves in them.

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

The things about one-on-one meetings are mostly about individual tasks or assessing their particular performance or quality, or if there's any issue. Men seem more nervous when I approach them and I get the feeling they prefer to solve issues by themselves without involving me or my father, while women approach me more often if they have an issue or there's some problem. It's like they think that if I find out there's something wrong they might have some trouble, which is not the case. I can get upset, but I don't eat people alive!
I also admit that this difference between men and women actually plays against the men - since I have a more trustful working relationship with women, it goes by itself that when my father and his execs will retire, I'll be more likely to promote them than the other guys who keep more distance.

About that, I think it's because I'm ''abnormal'' in that sense? lol. But like I've told in other settings, I just can't think about sexual stuff with a random woman - I'm just uninterested in that. The real trap with me is that I'll start talking for hours. Though I'm doing my best to be a good listener and let them speak their minds too.
I like to ask advice because I get other perspectives and I can rethink somethings or my approach to it. That said, I also admit that I tend to ''dramatize'' things, and some women seem to like that? I've even been accused right on this take to have become ''boring'' since I have curtailed the drama a bit, lol.

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

But I have to add, the investment thing is a two-way street - both here and IRL there are some women who keep me up to date with their going-ons and ask me advice - with their boyfriend, with their work, with their parents and so on... I do my best to be a good listener and give good advice, though I keep a bit careful because like you mentioned it happened to you with some guys if I remember well, to me it happened too that a couple of people took my investment in them as a sign I was the ''only person who understood them'' with the implications of the case.

Anyhow, really heartfelt thanks to you and your husband for reading and discussing my myTake, I really appreciate it and I'm happy it gave you a new topic to talk about!

[AmandaYVR]

There are lots of women at my husband's place of employment (it's in tech, they're programmers and such) and yes, very consistently, they don't speak up whenever there is a group situation.
They are on zoom meetings every single day and total crickets. Only when a manager asks them, "Would you like to heat up that project please?" then of course they have to say yes. But they don't ask for it, don't take on work or challenges, and don't speak up in meetings at all. Nor moderate the meetings.
Yeah I don't think it's specific to your company and about your management style.

Instant, live, feedback is helpful, isn't it? I agree with that. (And at the very least, if not speaking live, then at least nod and look engaged.)

Yes, the men probably want to solve problems on their own as much as possible.

Not "abnormal", but a bit atypical. 😉 (Though all truly professional men wouldn't dream of any flirting or exhibiting any sexual tension. In fact I'd say most men are very professional in this way. Even if you catch them glancing in a certain way, they recover from it well, make it seem like something else, a coincidence.)

I wonder if subconsciously you act more adversarial with men, and the men pick up on that.
But men are competition with men anyway, all the time. Even if you are the boss, it's more about pride and ego. Very few people like deferring.
Are the females deferential to you and your dad? Sounds like they might be.
All that writing down what amuses you... very odd. Not normal.

My husband's not that interested in gag either. I kind of force it on him sometimes, lol. I only read out select topics, here and there. Mostly he prefers not to be involved at all, and I just tell him my later conclusions about life. He's fine with that. He thinks I'm on the pulse, lol.

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

I understand, so it's a common thing!
I think that a bit it's their character, and a bit it's a lingering fear to be ridiculed or not taken seriously? My father has a lot of flaws and he's a womanizer, but to his credit I've noticed that he never behaves like that at the workplace and respects and listens to everyone equally. Let's not get about how he behaved outside of the workplace - not abusive, but he's a bit cold and of the ''traps you with honey words and then dumps you'' type with women, but at work he's really respectful and never did anything with his secretaries of employees - though I've been told that my grandfather and my aunt - his sister - kept a very tight leash on him that eventually rubbed off.

Exactly, I agree with your statement on professional men. If you are a true professional, you don't abuse your position to get ''favors'' from employees like too many corrupt men do.
It could be that I'm unconsciously adversarial, after all I style myself and act older than I'm actually am to boost my authority, plus I talk like a raspy dog and that might be put them on edge. My father on the contrary is laid back, wears t-shirts or gym tracksuits and has a soft voice.

Yes, they are deferential towards us. But I think they are even so with me because they are far seeing - I'm 23, they are in their mid 20s to the early 30s - I think they realize more than the men that when I'll succeed my father in some ten years, I'll pick them for top positions over other people. And to be honest, they aren't wrong.

I understand, to be honest I kind of understand him. G@G is either something you like or not, and sadly some people who like it end up quitting because of the usual problems.

[MTC29]

Engineering is a profession with a higher than usual number of women, and I always enjoyed working with, and even working for women. In my experience, women are extremely thorough. They don't jump to conclusions, but will spend the needed time doing research to each a valid conclusion. This is one reason why I have always insisted on having a female doctor- after a male doctor bungled a diagnosis for skin cancer!

Much like JMC, I had a better working relationship with most of the women in the office rather than with the with the men. When I became Principle Engineer, women were much easier to supervise: they were seldom argumentative and never got in my face. As @AmandaYVR said, guys have already made up their minds when they sit down, while women will at least listen.

One last issue: mine was a government job, so every engineer on my staff had a payrate based only on their job title and years of service. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. In many instances women will earn less than men, which can make for tension in the office.

[AmandaYVR]

That's really great to hear. 👍🧠

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

Thank you for sharing your opinion and experience, I wholeheartedly appreciate it!
I agree with you that women are much more thorough especially with details and little things that in my opinion can really make the difference in a project.
I'm sorry to hear about skin cancer, I hope you are alright.
That sounds really bad, but women being paid less is not shocking sadly, here is similar as well. Thankfully my father pays everyone the same based on their role, so men and women are paid the same, and we have maternities covered as well.

[zagor]

"Engineering is a profession with a higher than usual number of women". Uh, what country would that be in? Unless you're comparing it to welding or heavy equipment operator. My last position at an engineering firm, there were 24 men and 3 women. When I worked briefly at other types of companies there were far more women.

[AmandaYVR]

@zagor Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Very unusual.

[OlderAndWiser]

Do you feel that these differences arise from men being more likely to perceive themselves as being in competition with you? If so, would women have the opposite impressions of the gender difference?

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

It could be, but it'd be strange for them to be in competition with me since they can't get to my position or have a chance to get higher than me - I'm the heir to my father, not them! If that'd be the case, they'd be really mistaken. Also if that'd be the case, it'd worry me that women are seemingly more confident because maybe they think they can't get any higher - I mean, nobody can take my place, but that doesn't mean they can't get prizes, promotions and climb higher!

[btbc92]

I think it's quite interesting that you actually Witness. I'm not entirely too sure that what you wrote is exactly simply because men and women are different. I think this may have to do with culture, background, and personality. I had to basically learn to take a lot more notes because for me personally I like to be detail-oriented and be able to remember a lot of things. I deal with a lot of stress, so being able to write things down as he makes things more easier. I'm not entirely too short if what you're experiencing is because of your culture, but I know for myself here in the states, is not entirely like that. It's similar, but we tend to be very much individualist. I have seen a lot of men do similar but, there are definitely men that takes a lot of notes. But myself I like to be concise but only write a lot when I actually need to. And then there are some women who actually do what a lot of other guys may do, simply not. I tend to do some left myself because it just makes it easier for you to pay attention. The only problem is that if you're actually paying attention.

When it comes down to other things, I think it's just simply based on how the verse you have as you meet different people. But I do see if I can see where you're coming from and I think in a way it is kind of accurate.

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

Thank you for sharing your opinion!
I think it's really positive that you are detail oriented, it's something that's really useful to have an all-encompassing view and not leave anything out.
I agree with you that naturally there are many women and men who are the contrary of what I've described - men who takes lots of notes vs women who don't write anything down, and likewise women who comment a lot vs men who keep silent. I've just reported the experience I've seen so far with the teams I've been working with.
My country is somewhat conservative, but we live in the most progressive and multicultural part, so to say. I try to to keep a balance between old things and new - I require for my staff to dress formally but I don't impose ties to men or skirts and high heels to women - I just want them to look neat and proper for an office setting. I myself always wear suits with ties or mao suits though, mostly to keep an aura of authority - since I'm young, I have to look and act older to compensate.

[btbc92]

You have a lot on your hands, so thank you for letting me knkw your experiences. And I understand having to show that because uou have people who think they can take advantage of you.

[Anonymous]

I really love working with women. Although we don't have that many women where I work at, I did notice, that they take more notes and do comment less in general. And that's all cool and all. If they did any different, that's cool too.
A little bonus, that I really like is when I am upset or look like I need attention, they'll come and cheer me up in someway.
I can also talk with women more-or-less openly about women and really interesting topics and gain their female-perspectives 😁
Women make me happy ❤

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

I'm glad to hear that you are happy working with women!

[Opinion Owner]

What about you? Do you love working with women?

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

To be honest yes, but I'd also like to work with men just as well as I work with women. I'd like to have a dream team where to work in harmony and serenely to reach our common goals.

[AmandaYVR]

Awww so nice. 👌

[Massageman]

The only point I would have a bit of a quibble with would be the "feedback" one.

When I was in corporate life, men stayed with the "when" and "why" of projects. The women dealt more with the "who" of the projects. Men were not only concerned about the results, but the procedures for reaching the results. Women tended to deal more about the interpersonal relationships, even if their results weren't as stellar. Of course, that could just have been the culture in my company, a Fortune 100.

[Babygirlsweetheart1]

Im naturally effortlessly sexy and hot so guys are easily attracted to me and jump on me like hyenas. Its annoying many a time. Like damn. I didn't ask for all this attention. I would rather just work. But these people won't leave me alone so going to work is not just doing work its also juggling the horny dogs everywhere.

[Redstang88]

Yeah it’s definitely a different atmosphere. Only worked 1 job that was mostly female employees, and call me sexist but I’d never do it again. Non-stop bitching, backstabbing and catty drama. Feelings and diplomacy have no place at work, just get shit done

[K-I-S-S]

It is strange when a woman flirts during work.

It's nice but one wrong word from me when responding and it's straight to jail (HR).

So i just don't respond.

Don't work with around women anymore, not many in this field.

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

I found that putting up clear boundaries works really good. I'm friendly, approachable and all, but in virtue of my position I'm also something on an untouchable, a ''man of glass'' like I like to think. They know they must weigh their words and actions near me.

[D1988]

I wish I had that position in life overall. Don't get too zealous though being in such a position of power. Show them how lenient you can be and what you WON'T put up with no matter who it is there. Man or woman. Verbally. Whenever you can. Nobody is perfect at their job though. We all wish things would be perfectly balanced but that is not how things are. Especially at a corporate job like that. I was going to be hired to sell knives with Vector Marketing and knew how to do the job. I was offered the contract to sign as a independent contractor to earn a commission but I did not due to my morals and their marketing scheme. Their is many factors why I did not take this corporate job that has been selling knives since the 1940s. Knowing how to do the job and implementing it I could have done. The way they went about it? It did not sit right with me. No matter how they worded.

[msc545]

well done - thank you for writing and posting this!

[Jean-Marie_Céline]

Thank you!

[Phoenix98]

I wouldn't know we don't have any women who work on the floor.

[Lisa0203]

This is a interesting story. Thanks for sharing. 🤗😃🎄🎄

[Anonymous]

Women are petty and jealous and I say this as a woman

[grega239]

Where i work , women put labels on things and talk and men do the rest

[Abdulwahh]

True we different men are more logical women more emotional

[Anonymous]

I liked better when you were all drama now u just a bore

[Mavie]

honestly I like working alone

[KrakenAttackin]

Working with women = danger for men.

[Asianguy123]

Women are jealousy worker and men are rapist

[grega239]

So you admit yo being a rapist?

[Anonymous]

My ass is big

[Jlegacy]

As big as it is, I'm sure you are more useful as a person than as a sex object.