People need to start learning how to separate radicals from the common people.
I'm not Islamic myself (as I've been raised in a Western country and just nurtured my own beliefs), but I am sitting across one Islamic woman herself, my mother. And lemme tell you, she is sooooo totally scaryyyy in her flowery PJ's and roughly 5'1 height, like yeah she's packing pistols in her fluffy slippers and the film she's crying to is secretly encoded with interpretations telling her to go kill every "sinner" out there.
Definitely not "peaceful", no, I wouldn't find it hard to believe her cook books are actually secret passages telling her to kill all non-Islamic children.
Im not saying the common people are bad.
Most muslims i know are good people. But whenever there is a group, i also see ignorant people, and the rest of them are not speaking up against them.
But if you read the quran or hadiths you will find plenty of verses that instruct you to kill/conquer non believers.
Its verses like that, that promote the violence. And hence the title of my question, if it is a religion of peace. I dont think any religion that has such instructions is peaceful.
That applies to literally ANY group, ANY. Any group, culture, community, race, society, everything has shitty people. That is fact. Which makes this point redundant. Islam by this logic can not be worse than others because EVERY group has such people.
I think we both agree that this problem is higher in islam than other groups. Lets be honest here
I disagree, I see it more in Christians that surround my society, but this does not at all mean Christianity is the problem itself. It's the people. Radical people of these groups will plague ANY group they turn to or join. You can see this is smaller and less significant examples too. Think of the shittiest person you personally know and look at or imagine how that person ruins things/groups/interest/parties/events you like.
It's the individuals we should put down, the terrifyingly idiotic people, not the groups that would be nothing without the people to run it.
I hope you understand I am however agreeing Islam does have shitty people, I totally agree with this, ignorant to say otherwise.
Okay.
Curious as to where you are from, usa?
Is there a high rate of Christian fanatics?
Yes & I believe the world has "interpretations" to thank for that. Both the Bible and the Quran. And the simple fact is that socially "moral" people will have interpretations different to the "immoral" ones who do rape children and call it 'saving' or think nothing wrong of it or kill non-believers, etc.
So it comes down to individual choice. How you perceive words that (whether we wanna believe it or not) humans have written down in books, some so awful that new revised versions had to be brought out act and we act like was what God (and others) meant all along, lmao.
Come on now, find a common Muslim (AND Christian) person and tell me that they don't practice their religion in peace. You cannot say they have MORE wrongdoers, when MOST groups do have MANY wrongdoers (e. g. I could use your logic to say "are men really good people?" just because they have more rapists among their gender, but that simply does not fucking matter, because the MAJORITY of men do not rape. So your point of "the problem is higher than in other groups" is not a good reason for condemning the whole religion to not be of peace, otherwise I can use this logic (only repeating to clarify) to say there are more rapists in men than women therefore men are not peaceful people. Get me? Sounds ridiculous right? Cause it is.
EVERY group has MANY immoral people simply because we are ALL humans, no matter what group/culture/society. Humans have shitty people amongst the good, and no group will escape this fact.
All right, that is a pretty good argument.
I agree with your logic and dont really have anything to counter that.
But i would say, wouldn't it be helpful to investigate and understand why certain groups have higher rates of violence/types of violence. I think that would do more positive than negative.
Like investigating why men do commit more rapes would be useful.
The reason may be higher testosterone, less inhibitions, less emoathy, or a combination of the above. The findings would be useful to solve the problem.
If ut can be done without demonizing that group.
Thats my opinion. But other than that i admit that you are pretty much right.
I understand what you mean. I think to some extent we do when it comes to the rapists. The one excuse I always hear is childhood trauma and occasionally the unfounded "men are biologically going to show their feelings in this way" but it makes me sock, cause I know people who have equally bad childhoods and are biologically men, yet don't do this.
But I definitely get what you mean, and I think many agree with you in, particularly in psychology, to try find out why. I respect your curiosity and opinion here :)
The woman sitting across from you is the radical. People like her are the minority among Muslims, she's far outnumbered by the people that want gay people dead and think you're a whore.
Christianity is horrible too but Christians started ignoring the most horrible parts of the Bible at least a century ago. We don't have time to wait for Islam to catch up.
It was nice to have this discussion with you, opinion owner.
@Vulture051 "The woman sitting across you is the radical" - I don't know if you just don't know what radical means or you mistyped your first sentence/point, but either way: no.
You too, @lord_chilled! Thank you for MHO :) Have a great year!!
You too
@Opinion Owner
Someone favouring drastic political, economic, or social reforms. You are an infidel and she is not attacking you, based on your description she's also dressed in a western manner. The form of Islam she apparently advocates is a drastic departure from the norm, that which is followed by the majority of Muslims.
@Vulture051 No, see, if you saw the majority of Muslims in any country, you'd know they're like my mother. You are thinking of the terrible fucking Muslim extremists who unfortunately run certain middle eastern countries and force their common people who are Muslims to dress certain ways. Meet most Muslims who are free from those governments in the middle East and currently reside in the West due to various reasons, and maybe then you'd have to vision and capacity to separate the extremists from the common.
"No, see, if you saw the majority of Muslims in any country, you'd know they're like my mother."
No, see, if YOU saw the majority of Muslims in any NON-WESTERN country, you'd know they're nothing like your mother. Pretty sure you know damn well what Islam is like in the middle-east though and are just playing dumb.
@Vulture051 I've lived in the Middle East. You can take some breaths now. Let that smoke out of your ears too.
@Vulture051 I wanna know if you agree with your president's/minister's/dictator's views. I wanna know how you feel about your government being generalised as the same as the common people. If you have a shit government that forces laws/rules, thoughtless people like yourself judge you for being the same. Do you comprehend this? Does it occur to you that's what you're doing?
@Person-Hiding-Their-Name-This-Is-Getting-Annoying
"I've lived in the Middle East. You can take some breaths now. Let that smoke out of your ears too. "
What country and were you a good little Muslim girl? Nothing happened to me when I lived in Hildale Utah either but I sure as hell wouldn't call the FLDS peaceful or good (beats Islam though). Nothing happened because I followed the rules and did nothing to piss them off until I got out. Most of my family is still there.
@Vulture051 oooooOoOHhh sHe'S HidINg hER nAmE, NoW I can't sTaLK hEr fOr DiSagReEinG wItH Me!!!11!1!1!1!!
If you're gonna dodge my points, I'll dodge yours too. Don't debate if you can't. Common people ain't their government. It ain't Muslims fault that you don't understand this. But if points that you don't agree with are hurting and annoying you & you can't be civil to others (which is funny cause I thought Muslims were the uncivil bombing bastards) let me remove my debate & myself for you: Cya~
@OpinionOwner
I don't want to stalk you, you twit. Get over yourself. Typing in "Opinion Owner" over and over is just annoying and weird.
"Don't debate if you can't. Common people ain't their government"
You say that like you think it's a point.
"let me remove my debate & myself for you: Cya~"
Works for me, try not to get stoned as you leave.
@Vulture051 "Typing in "Opinion Owner" over and over is just annoying and weird.". HAHAHAHAHAHHA oh your poor fingers. #firstworldproblems. Did you know you didn't have to tag me on my own post?😂
It is a point by definition. If you can't understand it, that's another matter.
Yes, cause that's why normal people do to me, they stone me😂😂 Maybe they have garlic to repel me too😂 Stone the Muslimsssss!!!1!11!!!1!1! Even though we're hypocritically claiming Muslims are the violent ones!!!11!!1!1!1!! Thank God you ain't the common folk yourself, you're a joke, baby bird.
oh you can fuck off Islam. the few should not condemn the mass. i don't see posts like this against christianity. priests are molesting children left and right and it's still a "holy religion". i can guess white people would lose their shit if someone called them all racist, but have no problem spreading BS about an entire religion.
you hypocrites are disgusting.
Im not spreading bs about any religion.
You say priests molest children after you say the few should not condemn the mass.
I do condemn any priest who does this though.
But find me a verse that allows a priest to sexually assault a minor.
These guys had plenty to support their actions.
Read your history and realize who tge prophet who wrote their book was.
He was a warlord. That should tell you everything you need to know.
No wonder there are more radical islamists athan radicals of other religions.
by the way im not white.
And dont defend people who follow cults. Watch the video first. And tell me how peaceful they are
? That was my ENTIRE point. i said priests molest children, but people do not go around spreading insane generalizations about everyone in that religion. i can't stand people who don't read.
yeah and jesus told women they have to marry their rapists and cannot divorce, stone their children in the city for disobeying their parents, deformed people can't approach god, a woman has to cut of her hand if she defends her husband, if your brother dies you have to fuck his wife, if you disobey god you must eat your babies, and all of that is just off top. i could find more insane ones for sure.
idc if you're white. that doesn't aid or hinder your argument.
the church is a massive cult. do you feel that way about them?
People dont fo around spreading generalizations?
Everyone talks about priests molesting children. It is almost used as an insult to christians in a casual manner.
Its the other way around, people do not criticize muslims, at all. They are afraid to do so. They know they can get away with doing it to christians. Just like you are doing right now. This post had nothing to do with christians, yet you bring that up and conveniently ignore what the post is about. In this way, you are defending the people who raped and murdered those two girls.
Because the reason they did so is their religion.
" yeah and jesus told women they have to marry their rapists and cannot divorce, stone their children in the city for disobeying their parents, deformed people can't approach god, a woman has to cut of her hand if she defends her husband, if your brother dies you have to fuck his wife, if you disobey god you must eat your babies, and all of that is just off top. i could find more insane ones for sure."
Im pretty sure, most of these are taken from the old testament (which is biblical history BEFORE jesus, in case you didn't know), but lets say jesus said all of that.
How many christians do you see preaching that women should marry their rapists?
How many christians do you see that support stoning children, or anyone for that matter?
How many christians do you see saying anyones hand must be chopped off or someone should fuxk ttheir brothers wife?
Ill wait for you.
wow. you are actually saying, like with your whole chest, that christianity is shit on as much as muslims. is that what you are saying.
people are afraid? look at the comments! there are videos online of people screaming "fucking muslims!" im literally not condemning christians. the only reason i brought it up is bc what you were saying is that a few guys in a religion represent a whole religion? then why can't molestors represent a whole religion? it's called drawing a parallel? you ever heard of that?
and yes. you caught me. im defending the murder of two innocent girls who had so much to live for. how did you find me out. such sleuthing🙄🙄🙄nice reach, big guy.
and how many muslims do you see making threats? oh yeah, on tv right? where propaganda is being thrust upon americans so we can hate a country that is majority pretty peaceful.
now i'll wait for you.
Its shit on more than islam. It doesn't matter what people say behind closed doors or on the internet. What matters is what people are allowed to say in oublic without being ostracized for it, shamed and potentially costing you your job.
No one loses their job over a comment about priests and children. Just say anything bad about the islamic prophet and see what reaction you get.
That is what the current pc climate is like.
And the problem is that its not just a few guys though, is it? I would be fine if it was just a few guys. Too bad its more like a few million guys.
And by the way lets generalize and say all the priests are molesters. That is still just the priests, not regular christians.
It wasn't muslim Imams raping those girls, it was the believers. See how logic works?
Your reasoning is severely flawed. You cannot compare the two religions at the present. Shall we compare the numbers as to how many people were killed in the name of christianity vs how many people were killed in the name of islam.
Not wars, not soldiers killing for their country, or for rixh old men, im talking about fanatics killing for their religion. Lets compare the numbers.
Here are some verses:
" Some of the pro-war, pro-violence verses include these:
8:39 - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism).
9:1-11 : Four-months reprieve, and, honour those who keep perfectly to accords you have made with them, and respect those who pay the subjugation tax and convert, but otherwise, "then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled." - Saheeh International translation.
9:38-42,9:80-91 - "Go forth in the cause of Allah" ; prefer the gains of the afterlife to fear of death in this life. Else God will punish you. The verses are talking of those who did not join war parties to attack non-believing tribal neighbours.
9:91 - the sick and the disabled need not fight as long as they are submitted to God.
9:123 - "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you".
9:19-20, 57:10, 61:11 - Those who go and fight for Allah are greater and more worthy than those who delay it, and those who merely support the effort.
Sura 47: The purpose of the whole Sura is to call Muslims to physically fight for God, and accuse those who deny that this is their call, or refuse to fight, or disbelieve that they have to, are cowardly disbelievers who God will curse. For example:
47:20-23: Those who are godly, obedient and good, will fight for Allah. Others are cowardly disbelievers that God curses.
47:25 - Satan entices those who once believed, but take dislike to certain parts of the Qur'an (i. e., the verses saying to fight).
48:29 - "Those who follow [Muhammad] are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another".
All you need to ask yourself is this:
How many places in the world are unsafe for a non christian to go, for fear of being killed by christians, vs how many places in the world are unsafe for a non muslim to go, for fear of being killed by islamists.
Also, the irony of a woman defending islam.
No religion is as strict with gender roles as islam is.
I would bet money on the fact that you probably are a feminist.
Did you know that women are not supposed to enter mosques?
Have you read about sharia rule?
i'm defending the GOOD muslims that act much better than you do. defend those who can't defend themselves. that's what decent people do and what shitty people lack.
i already did my whole verses in another persons comment. you can keep writing paragraphs, but it won't change the fact you are indeed shitty for clumping a whole place and it's religion into one square box.
Good job ignoring the question amd virtue signalling.
Sure im worse than people who support sharia law and solve their problems trough eliminating people.
Enjoy your ignorance instead of facing the facts, until it hits you in your face. Ignorance is not the way to solve the problem. You are the reason terrorist attacks still happen.
Instead of holding people accountable, you keep irrationally and unintelligently defending them
Are the good muslims doing anything about terrorist acts being committed by tue radicals?
I have yet to see people coming out and admotting there is something wrong with their culture or religion.
All i hear are people saying not all of us are like that. All the while the attacks keep going on and on.
Is that solving the problem?
At least christians acknowledge the problems in our communities.
Even though it is nowhere close to their issues.
You are all children who dont have the balls to face the problem.
Liberals and moderate muslims.
by the way, liberals are some of the people highest on the target list for radical islamists because of your support for feminism and the lgbt
yep. im the reason. i got into planes and dropped bombs all over america! imagine! the cia hasn't caught me! how i've outsmarted america!
since im American and i enable terrorist attacks, ALL americans must enable terrorist attacks! thats how you sound. because a few muslims did something bad, they're all bad.
are "good" americans doing anything about racist marches and lgbt hate crimes?
all i hear is white people saying not all of us are like that while the attacks and bigotry goes on.
and the last part doesn't apply. im not a liberal.
Amerixans dropped bombs and started shit.
I dont deny it.
But please explain how that justifies attacking innocent europeans.
And explain all the mulsim wars and conquests before america existed as a nation.
what are you even talking about
you're getting into your feelings and letting your emotions drive you
You dont emable them by being American. You enable them by defending them instead of holding them accountable for their actions.
Amd its not just a fe muslims right, more like a few hundred thousands. Amd the millions who support and agree with them.
Want to know some unpleasant truths about how many " moderate" muslims living in the uk support sharia law?
Im the only one with facts here. You are the one with emotions drive you. Time to wake up amd face the truth.
im defending innocent muslims. period. you're not reading and that's not my problem. if you want to be a typical, hating American, that's your prerogative. but i refuse to hate innocent and good people who have not laid a finger on anyone.
www.secularism.org.uk/.../over-40-percent-of-uk-muslims-support-aspects-of-sharia-law
How is this fact going for you?
Educate yourself on what sharia law is and what that means for women like you.
i don't understand why you have such a hateful, spiteful heart. you should reflect on why your direct your anger to innocent people and not to the people actually names. you need to go and search within yourself and come to peace and love instead of letting hate and disgust consume you.
do you think that article is going to make me suddenly believe all muslims are bad?
because i can throw massive amount of articles about how bad white people are and trust me, there's a lot. but here i am, not believing you're all bad. im a bigger person than you.
Have you heard about pakistan?
After independence from britain and the splitting of india amd pakistan, pakistan had almost 13 % hindus.
"In 1951, Hindus constituted 12.9% of the Pakistani population " - from wikipedia.
You know what they are today?
Less than 2%.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Pakistan
Do the math.
Why do you think they reduced in such a number?
Normally it eould take a genocide or ethnic cleansing to achieve this.
Most fled to india or were killed.
Same thing with christians.
Muslims do not treat other religions nocely when they become the majority. Same thing with christians being persecuted in egypt.
Where are all those good muslim people you talk about?
What are they doing to stop it?
Idiots like you will never realize unless its too late.
Again, why are you saying " you" when mentioning white people when i already said im not white.
Then you say i dont care what you are, then stop saying "you" when you refer to white people.
Im going to make this soooooo simple that even a kindergatener could understand it. Because you dont get this trough your head.
I never said all muslims are bad-
I said that their religion is bad-
And i said the good/ moderate people are doing nothing about their evil religion-
Just standing by idle as other people are destroyed makes you part of the problem, no matter how good/moderate you are.
You finally get it?
Amd feel free about finding me any article that said white people persecuted and murdered blacks to an extent that their population wemt from 10% or so to the single digits like 2%.
Im waiting.
White people did a lot of bad things and still haven't managed that feat.
Muslims did.
ooo you getting really mad aren't you lmao
you're getting so mad that im saying there are good muslims that you're paragraphs @ing me
on a scale of 1-10 how mad are you
I domt think im as mad as you are. So far you still have no arguments.
And you are mad about muslims getting a bad name but dont care about hindus and christians being perescuted in pakistan.
How fair of you. Or should i say how politically correct and robotic of you.
why do i need an argument to love innocent people?
what is wrong with you?
hindus and pakistanis have never come out this keyboard until now.
why do i need facts and articles to back out me now prosecuting innocent people?
That last sentense made no sense.
Pakistanis are mostly muslims, that is why they are brought up.
And its a fact that muslims in pakistan persecuted hindus and christians, and reduced their numbers from 12 to below 2%.
So what is your argument?
Were the good muslims blind to this, or is pakistan a country that just so happens to have zero good muslims?
This is an intelligent argument, so you will meed to think this trough. The pc brainwashing won't help you
sorry: "why do i need facts and articles to back up the fact that i don't like prosecuting innocent people"?
you can answer that now
dude. literally I HAVE NO ARGUMENT.
IT'S AN OPINION.
I DON'T BELIEVE PEOPLE SHOULD HATE A GROUP OF people WHEN INNOCENTS ARE STILL PRESENT.
wtf is wrong with you lmao
You dont need facts or articles, that isn't what the argument is about.
The argument is about their religion. I dont doubt that there are good muslims.
The question is why dont they stop the bad ones?
Its their responsibility.
White people didn't let the kkk amd nazis kill black people until the population went from 10 to 2.
So why did the good muslims let the bad muslims do that in their countries?
After all the violent killers are always a minority.
How do they get away with that when most people are good?
My explanation is that their religion/culture is evil and doesn't permit them.
Thats literally the only reason that can still make them look good as individuals. And thats the accusation in my original question.
If my explanation is wrong, offer a better one, that doesn't make muslims look bad.
Im not hating a group of people, i hate their culture and religion, because it is problematic. Its part of being a man and finding solutions to problems.
Thats how we got here as a civilization. What are you doing? By not accepting the evil of their religion amd just standing against any criticism, what progress are you making?
dude what are you even... you're definitely just fighting to fight talking about black people, kkk, pakistanis...
and what progress are you making by hating everyone lol
you're just raising your blood pressure about someone spreading love rather than hate.
How many times do i have to say that i dont hate everyone?
Is ot that hard to inderstand that finding solutions to real problems isn't hating? I thought you were an adult?
yeah you do lol that's why you have such a problem with me saying i dont and saying: "You are the reason terrorist attacks still happen. Instead of holding people accountable, you keep irrationally and unintelligently defending them"
you're just mad that i don't align with your muslims are terrorists propaganda.
I explained it in the easiest way possible. How can you still not get it?
This worse than talking politics with a child
Have you absolutely no idea about history at all?
You cannot answer any of the simplest things i ask you.
Ignore everything before and listen to this
What is the religion we are talking about?
Muslims.
What is the religion of the majority of pakistan.
-islam. They are muslims.
So far so good?
No, see this is what happens when you dont listen to me.
You may as well start by re reading the title of the question.
But ignore all of that. Believe what you want about me. All i want to know is this.
Why did hindus in pakistan reduce from 12 % to 2%?
If you can answer me this, you are right and i am wrong. Its done.
"What is the religion of the majority of pakistan.
-islam. They are muslims"
so?
who cares?
who cares about your percentages? what do you want me to say? YEP YOU'RE RIGHT. ME SAYING I LIKE THE INNOCENTS IS WRONG. THANKS FOR PROVIDING PERCENTAGES THAT NO ONE CARES ABOUT. lol
you do know that all im saying is i like the innocent right? why is that so irritating to you lol you keep avoiding MY question too, honey.
What is your question though? Its a statement, not a question. I like innocents too.
Oh boy do i wish i had the magical power to save innocents, by just liking them.
See i libe in reality. Where the innocent are being butchered in millions.
Innocent muslims too. And you know by whom?
By other muslims.
Do you not see, what is wrong with this picture?
im asking you if you fully understand that all im saying is i like the innocent and we shouldn't condemn them bc a few are bad. do you understand that there is no such argument behind that opinion because it is an OPINION.
No one is saying liking people saves people! im saying hating everyone is stupid!
where are you inferring all of this bs from?
Me: i don't believe bad people should represent the masses. i think there are innocents that needs love.
you: UMMM LIKING PEOPLE won't DO ANYTHING HERE IS AN ARTICLE FROM SOME OBSCURE UK WEBSITE TO PROVE TO YOU THAT YOUR OPINION IS RIDICULOUS
like wtf, are you high or did you fight with someone and now you're taking it out on me?
Okay, i understand and i agree.
But if that was all you had to say, what is the point of posting that on here?
My post was about two innocent girls that got murdered in the worst way possible, the reasosns that motivated the murder and what islam has to do with it.
How is your point relevant in this context?
i said what i said bc of the options provided. i never said what was done to them wasn't horrific, you just jumped down my throat for it for no reason at all.
you asked if islam is still peaceful and i said that not everyone in islam is as bad as those people. i said "the few should not condemn the mass". i never supported those sick men yet you continue to act like i did when all i said what there are probably still good people. I don't know why you got pissed at that?
Me : "2 scandinavian women got murdered by men in morocco.
The attack was racially/religiously motivated.
This is not the first time this has happened, at one point religiously motivated attacks hapoened every week in the uk.
Is anyone seeing whats wring with thi... "
You: " fuck off, christians are just as bad, not all muslims are bad, we shouldn't judge the good people by the bad ones, i love and protect innocents! "...
How the fuxk is that helping the issue?
i don't think we're ever going to get what the other person is trying to get across. donesn't matter; this has been going on for 17 hours. that's enough blood pressure for both of us.
*doesn't
Alright, have a good day or night. I mean no ill will to you. Enjoy the rest of your time here.
*here on gag
you too! hopefully there is no hard feelings. grudges aren't my thing.
Its fine, no hard feelings.
Apologies for getting angry, and if i got personal.
I dont hold grudges either. 😊👋
As you yourself point out, it's not Islam that's the problem, any more than Christianity is the problem when child abusers quote "spare the rod and spoil the child." (Proverbs 13:24)
Instead, it's hate and a lust for power wrapped in religious trappings.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child" does not enable or promote child abuse?
Or was it sarcasm and you mean it the other way?
More an example of how it's not the religion, but abuse hidden in religious wrappings.
Yeah but that isn't promoting child abuse.
I mean if there are actual statements, you can show them to me.. I dont think i habe seen them.
Islamic terrorists justify their actions using actual verses from their books.
You prefer something other than child abuse? "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Or God's commandments that the Cannanites be utterly destroyed "you shall save alive nothing that breathes, "
good. and i will condemn any christians who are burning "witches" and killing canaanites.
- i dont think that is happening much today.
i might just not know and there might be some christians burning women somewhere but i dont hear that in the news every other week.
what i do hear is people being stabbed, run over by cars, beheaded and bombed by jihadists , in the name of islam.
if the vast majority of crimes in the name of god/religion, are committed by one group, and its not just happening in one place, but all over the world, then we have to acknowledge that there are some issues within that group.
they need to reform themselves from the inside for this to stop.
ignoring, and redirection is NOT the answer.
imagine, if no one held the church accountable to witchburning, and no one spoke against it. you bet it would still be happening today.
you think if people can behead other people and blow themselves up, that people can't burn women at the stake? of course we can.
but we don't because we recognized our wrongdoings.
people, have to be held accountable for what they do. even many muslim philosophers and thinkers have spoken up about it, but they are still chastised in their own communities.
About as much as the other Abrahamic faiths. So no.
I think we can be politically incorrect and admit that they have it the worst.
Or, prove me wrong and say that the others kill people in masse just as mich as islamists do.
Well I'm talking about ideologically. The politically incorrect portion, as I see it, is to say that currently Islam results in the greatest amount of death. This is a result of massive internal and external pressure against, for example, christianity for half a millenia longer than Islam. Christianity is still a cause of pretty massive suffering worldwide (aside from emotional) the Ugandan "Kill The Gays" bill of 2014 is one particular example of a third world culture who actually implements Christianity in the manner in which the actual religious texts describe.
The problem with the "progressive" side is that they wish to excuse Islam for their horrendous ideology in a manner which they won't do for christians. This is silly. Islam needs it more than Christianity as (imo) because Muslims seem to take their faith far more seriously than Christians do. When a christian kid starts talking about how a demon is trying to possess him and he hears voices Christian parents often recognize that it's a psychological issue (because they don't really believe in demons despite they're profession of such beliefs) whereas most of the Muslims I know really take that nonsense seriously. They really believe in the djinn.
I agree.
when did this happen?
What defines "insulting".
Are they pretty much saying that you cannot critizise him anymore?
A woman was giving a sort of class in Austria and she called Mohammed a pedophile referencing his relationship with Aisha.
I gave some links to read the case info on here Freedom Of Speech Dead In Austria? ↗
damn...
i mean, if we go that route, then no religious figure should be criticized.
but its much better , if they can be criticized, that prevents the hivemind thinking.
Agreed
Opinion
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Ya but those girls are idiots
They were told by locals and their guides not to go In that area as there is a chance to run into rebels and it’s risky. But they still went
Of course they are idiots.
Liberal western people are very ignorant of the world we live in.
The luxury of safety can breed people who are extremely out of tune with their instincts,
I hope that these kind of incidents expose the snowflakes to reality and prevent more such incidents from taking place.
Ya they were basically looking for adventure... looking to potentially face death in the face...
some people are trill seekers like that
for instance all those people that love climbing Everest, however at that altitude, the available oxygen is only 1/3 of sea level.. basically you are dying, facing death in the face... they love it
Islam is inherently not a religion of peace, that doesn't mean it can't be practised in a peaceful less literate manner. But since it has no tollerance of abstaining or non believers its not a religion that can co-exist peacefully.
Well Jesus said to love and forgive your enemies. What does their book say?
Not sure, but i have found plenty of verses supporting all the actions done by those men when i read about it.
jesus also says that if a woman is raped by a man, she must marry him; they are not allowed to get divorced. he also says that you need to bring your child into the city to be stoned if they disobey you.
jesus was just as much a crackhead than anyone else.
lol gotta love christians. they get to re-write the history they swear down happened! frauds
if it's a passage in the bible, it's in the bible. christians worship the bible. therefore they believe the bible. you dont get to cross out shit you dont like.
@scorchedwater we know the Bible and it’s contexts better than non Christians. The law was abolished by Jesus birth and murder. His dying last words were forgive them Father for they know not what they’ve done. His father is God. He forgave the very people that tortured and murdered him. So it is today. You’re instructed to follow Jesus example
so by that logic, you love Islam... right?
your initial comment implied sarcasm. if you truly followed the word of the Lord, then you would stick up for these people and say not all of them are terrorists and bad people just as you are standing up for what you believe in.
who made actions specifically against you? i see the shootings in black churches, i see the charlottesville supremacist rallies, i see the Unite the Right marches in DC. what makes me, a non-christian, have better values and more love to recognize not all white people are so terrible? that is why people believe christianity is farce.
i follow your scripture by simply being a good individual while you still struggle.
@scorchedwater nowhere in the Bible does it say just because you’re a believer that your life will be a bed of roses. The attack’s on 9/11 really pissed me off and my imperfect human emotions took over and it’s something I still struggle with. There is hate in this world no doubt. But hatred does not come from Jesus or his Christian followers just like not all followers of Islam are evil murderers of non believers. All I asked was does Islamic scripture also say love and forgive your enemies and non believers or not?
and that's fine. be pissed off. but you must forgive them and continue to love your neighbors. especially since only a handful of them committed a terror crime.
@scorchedwater it isn’t just a handful. Al Queda or however you spell it actually declared war on the USA. What they do is go after ordinary citizens not attacking our military. I wonder why? You haven’t answered my question. Does Islamic texts say to love, forgive your enemies and non believers the same as Christian text does?
@scorchedwater i think thise are old testament rules. And if my memory serves me right i do not think jesus said that. Feel free to quote him amd correct me if im wrong.
The difference is that christians went trough an enlightement period. This is why we no longer hunt pagans, burn women at the stake and follow the old testament.
The old testament is similar in bible, quran and the torah i think (script that jews believe), and its middle age brutish laws.
Modern christians only follow the new testament, which is why you dont see many christians bombing and beheading people.
Muslims, there are too many who do this, to not be taken seriously. Why do you keep defending them?
so? Al Qaeda is one organization that mistreats
and are you kidding? america has bombed so many places and killed so many innocent children and women and men. does the bible have a verse on hypocrisy? and ok:
-“O You who believe! Enter absolutely into peace (Islam). Do not follow in the footsteps of satan. He is an outright enemy to you.” (Holy Quran: 2, 208)
-You will not enter paradise until you have faith; and you will not complete your faith till you love one another. ~ Tirmidhi 2688
-Those who spend in prosperity, spend in adversity, suppress anger and pardon people, indeed Allah loves those who do good. ~ Quran 3:134
-Allah loves those who act justly ~ Quran 5:42 60:8
-Allah is kind and loves kindness, and He rewards for kindness in a way that He does not reward for harshness or for anything else. ~ Muslim 45/99
-... be good to your neighbor and the neighbor who is farther away... ~ Quran 4:36
-Compete in doing good deeds ~ Quran 5:48
The #1 problem with people like you is that you decide NOT to look up anything. you decide based on things you see in the news and based on your emotions.
is that enough "proof" for you?
i keep defending them bc i HATE generalizations. i hate them. if i said i hate you bc all white people are racist pigs. you'd probably think "hey wait a minute. that's not who i am." unless you actually are racist.
the fact that a non-christian is defending those who cannot presently defend themselves from a CHRISTIAN shows how little your faith is to you.
@scorchedwater i did a lot more looking up than you did. They dont make it easy, the hadiths and quran are not translated, but there are people who translated them and i can give you more verses that support murder rape and all the things terrorists do, than the ones about peace.
by the way, their prophet engaged in all.
@scorchedwater im not generalizing though. I didn't say all muslims are bad.
But its not the same when there are much more of them engaging in violence than the rest. That is the truth and you would have to be both blind and deaf not to admit that.
And im not saying what america doing is great, their wars and political powermobes have cause a lot of problems everywhere. That's a whole other issue to begin with. But its not religion based violence, its profit and power based violence. Im talking about this one topic here.
i gave you a bunch of verses. if you dont want to read them, that's on you dude. typical christian behavior though. bravo. every religion except yours is disgusting and gives bad messages in every single line of the book.
so it's not the same as your religion constantly molesting little boys? your religion abuses power every day.
@scorchedwater
" here are some more verses:
Some of the pro-war, pro-violence verses include these:
8:39 - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism).
9:1-11 : Four-months reprieve, and, honour those who keep perfectly to accords you have made with them, and respect those who pay the subjugation tax and convert, but otherwise, "then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled." - Saheeh International translation.
9:38-42,9:80-91 - "Go forth in the cause of Allah" ; prefer the gains of the afterlife to fear of death in this life. Else God will punish you. The verses are talking of those who did not join war parties to attack non-believing tribal neighbours.
9:91 - the sick and the disabled need not fight as long as they are submitted to God.
9:123 - "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you".
9:19-20, 57:10, 61:11 - Those who go and fight for Allah are greater and more worthy than those who delay it, and those who merely support the effort.
Sura 47: The purpose of the whole Sura is to call Muslims to physically fight for God, and accuse those who deny that this is their call, or refuse to fight, or disbelieve that they have to, are cowardly disbelievers who God will curse. For example:
47:20-23: Those who are godly, obedient and good, will fight for Allah. Others are cowardly disbelievers that God curses.
47:25 - Satan entices those who once believed, but take dislike to certain parts of the Qur'an (i. e., the verses saying to fight).
48:29 - "Those who follow [Muhammad] are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another".
Stay ignorant.
@scorchedwater byw, muslim priests have been discovered to do the same with boys. Maybe that profession draws in pedophiles.
Well, it sucks that that was your whole argument against christianity, but now that we are on equal terms there it must be hard for you to make christians look as bad as muslims.
yep. everyone is molesting everyone then. good conclusion.
and im not against christiantiy. im pointing out the hypocrisy.
Old news.
The girls knew what they got themselves into.
But no, Islam is not a religion of peace. I don't know why you'd use that case with the girls as a pushing force.
They didn't. The girls believed they were going to be safe and that evweyone is living in a big happy fairytale. People need to be brought to reality.
Don't you know it isn't politically correct to speak the truth on Islam?
I dont really care anymore. People need to be educated sometimes.
Learn something young buck. I see you going back and forth on this thread about Islam.
You and I know Islam is a disgusting religion.
I for one strictly got educated on Islam by reading from the direct source it self the Qur'an and Hadith which are the two reliable sources of the religion.
Anyways, some always see, others see when you show them and some will never see regardless, they perfer to stay blind.
Don't waste your time arguing with people that refuse to the horror that Isalm is. It's a dead end with them.
Quran and hadith verses are where i got my views from as well.
On the internet they have the info for all to know.
Reddit also has forums with threads about this.
It also has threads on people wanting to leave it, but having a hard time. Its like a gang, they won't let you leave just like that.
Amyway, as you said some see when we show them, thats all i wanna do.
Ok cool. Show them this especially to women that like to defend Islam.
Muslim hubby is commanded to smack wify if she acts cocky and rebellious towards him. So quit with the "generalizations" Isalm is peace and only a "few" make it look bad. 😉
Qur'an 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.
So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard.
But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them.
But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Yeah i have heard this one before.
I find it weird too when women defend it.
All religions, have "bad" people.
You can't just say one religion is "bad". That's called stereotyping.
Of course they do.
And they all are bad. But one is continuously worse than all others and produces more violent criminals and terrorists than all others.
Its not stereotyping. Its called opening your eyes and being aware of what is happening.
that country is a whole other world
and honestly they need to be killed
all of them no
but a vast majority of them
my brother is in the military
and when I said to kill them
he said you ready to go to war with a 1/3 OF THE PEOPLE ON THE EARTH
YES!!!
Oh, you've been to Morocco then?
@juliaanita
no but I have seen enough
You haven't seen enough to make a comment like the above. Really? They need to be killed? The people in Morocco are the friendliest people on earth, even to a white woman like myself, travelling by herself.
My thought is that people like yourself, who want to kill with no discrimination, anyone who is of a certain religion kinda puts you in the same camp as any radical from a muslim country.
And that alone makes you as dangerous.
@juliaanita
no I just want to kill those who are causing problems
I LIVE IN AN AREA FULL OF MUSLIM THEY DO NOT CAUSE TROUBLE
but there is a whole section of the world THAT DOES
and they need to be killed END OF STORY
this applies to anyone
not just muslims
i won't waste any more words on ignorant and untravelled people like yourself. You should either get a plane ticket and get yourself an education or continue wall yourself up in your little backwater region with your hate and ignorance.
Either way i am shutting this conversation down.
One of my best friends from my childhood is morroccan. They are generally friendly people. But even amongs them there are radicals.
The people are good, the problem is religion and who takes it too seriously.
by the way juliaanita, you should not be travelling alone and meeting people in places you dont know. Thats how you become a victim. The world is not a safe space
aw thanks for the concern.
@juliaanita if that was sarcasm, did you not see or hear about what happened to those two scandinavian women travelling alone?
I did. I was probably in the same area as they were. I have an Estonian heritage so I look not unlike those women.
That being said, if people are afraid of travelling to an otherwise friendly country because of what MIGHT happen, then the terrorists have won, haven't they.
I honestly feel more threatened here in my home, in the US, because of the gun violence and the religious extremists here.
Anyway, I have always believed that one should travel as much as one can. And I refuse to be terrorized by the terrorists anywhere.
@juliaanita no they haven't. The terrorists have won when they get to rape and kill their vistims.
And the terrorists dont care about tour refusal.
This attitude is very naive and unsafe. You should never go to any place that you dont know about and is not secure.
The world is not free and people are not your friends.
If anything occurences like these should teach innocent westerners a lesson, to be more careful.
If you have seen the video then you would know that nothing at your home could compare to what those monsters did.
A bullet to the head is a fresh breath of air compared to that.
If you want anything to compare, mexican cartels do similar or worse things to opponents. Other than that you won't find much.
I travel a lot too. Safely.
And i have good instincts.
im not an innocent westerner. Im not naive about my travel. I lived out of the US for at least 10 years. I've traveled for work. I backpacked in countries you probably not have heard of. I spent time in countries that historically have been our global adversaries. Globally, I have cultivated friends and homes to stay in. And the one quality i have made note of is that we are more alike than different.
Of course I avoid countries with rampant terrorism. Of course I protect myself with friends and allies and take the proper caution in a country which may not like Americans. Of course being a woman has special risks. But I'll match my travelling instincts with yours any day of the week.
You should travel with me. I could keep you safe :)
But again, thanks for the concern, I almost think that you mean it :)
@juliaanita you said that you were somewhere in the same area the two girls were.
I heard that they were adviced not to go there, befor this happened.
I assumed from that that you were not being caredul enough.
Tbh, i still think you are a bit too overconfident.
And i dont think i could travel with you, we may disagree too much on what is safe.
Besides, i have had some run-ins despite trying to be safe.
Whatever fights i have left in me, im conserving for the future.
And i do mean well to you, just because im being stern or disagreeable doesn't mean that i dont care. The reason i made this post was to spread awareness of danger in the first place.
:) :)
@juliaanita
no I just use common sense
If I ever go to the middle east
IT;S TO KILL
but it does not matter
my GOD will come down from the dome and rekt all these satanic idiots
Glory to my GOD above the waters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2L6KepPgEA
Abrahamic religions bare inherently not religions of peace.
It's not a phobia if the fear is rational and based on fact. So there's no such thing as Islamphobia, because it's not a phobia.
Yes, Islam is a religion of peas
They don't follow Islam, they believe in a twisted version of it. The "supporting" text is a bastardized interpretation.
No it isn't.
I suggest you read the verses, and also suggest you to look into who the prophet was. He was a warlord. Murder, rape and conquest were all things he has personally engaged in.
Ask any devout muslim who the ideal man was according to them.
Islam has never been about peace
All religions suck!
Agreed.
Terrorist act man.
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