It's said that if God were to reveal His face to a man, he would instantly die... of sheer astonishment. People always say leave it to God , pray to God etc but God washed His hands of us and made the decision to destroy Man for good and scrap the whole project. Jesus spoke up to say forgive us, we know not what we do. So now Jesus oversees the matter of Man and no man can go before God without going through Jesus. As for proof of existence, indeed religion has become what seems a far off fantasy that is nearly impossible to grasp. All because one simple detail to link sense to it has been gradually swept under the rug, but signs of it are and were everywhere. All the ancients give suggestions and references to it in script, artworks and stone carvings. Once realized, it is clearly and simply inevitable.
Structures stand on Earth today built by technology unknown to modern day man, somehow to sit in perfect alignment with key stellar bodies. Carved onto the walls of these structures are depicted suggestion of space travel, objects, & beings. Most all ancient civilizations give reference of one sort or other to suggest the same. Crazy is the sound of what is logic that has been slowly swept away to rob truth of understanding and sense making ability. What is more logical is ancient suggestion of Christ actually departing the Earth by way of a massive craft. Supporting that concept with logic is it saying He will descend the 'New Jerusalem' (name of a craft?) down onto the ruins of the old city when He returns.
God is of the heavens , not of the Earth. That fact in itself says He is in fact , extraterrestrial.
Age old as well however, is the factual saying that the first step toward finding magic, is indeed to believe that it actually exists...
I like to say to folks that the super intelligent, self thinking, now sovereign Saudi citizen - AI droid , Sophia , is result of Man trying to find the Higgs/Boson God particle & recreate the big bang theory through particle collision research. Let them think on it , then say no... ... She was created in the image & likeness of her creator with elements taken from Earth being brought together through specific mathematical equation & formulation,& that is truth.
Also truth is... All actions & all things translate to numeric equation. Men have in likeness to our creator the power to create. Nothing that Man has created was done so without using the common key used for & shared by all creation being mathematics...
~The absolute never ending infinity of numbers, therefore mathematics, leaves absolutely no end to possibility~
... Absolutely nothing is not real, & anything my friends , .. anything in your wildest of dreams is indeed achievable. Eternity is mathematically inevitable, & we, We are likeness & of what makes us ourselves... godly. Slightest or worst, Man is what Man will do, sin. Bottom line in the end we were asked only to believe, & he who believeth in Him shall have everlasting life. There is no fear of God in the presence of faith, fear defies faith & repels one from God.
I’m agnostic was raised Christian so ima try to answer this of how I was raised.
so from what I remember god doesn’t always answer this is where the idea of faith comes in you have to put your trust in god and he will answer it’s not like you can do it ironically there are sighs he gives you which you are suppose to interpret and go from that.
I will say I had a weird experience (almost like I spoke to the dead) So there was this foster girl whom my mom (yes adopted but she’s been more of a mom to me then my bio mom would have even been) this girl named Triana died of fetal alcohol syndrome she had it bad (it’s like her mom drank a 1/5th a day while pregnant) I loved her like a sister this was back on 01 when I was 8 years old I pretty much said I hated god and would never fallow him because he took her away. I had a dream the night she died. where in the dream I was crying at her deathbed and she woke up and spoke to me and said Josh it’s ok I’m in a better place now I’m not in pain I’m no longer suffering I’m in Heaven with god he will take care of me now when she went back to sleep I woke up and understood that god work in ways I can’t understand but she was in a better place I told my mom about the dream and she told me about hers where there was a butterfly who had gotten stuck in a spider web and she tried to get it unstuck and the more she tried the more entangled it got eventually it died. My dream not only gave my mom comfort but she said it was a sign that Triana was in a better place. Looking back at it I don't know if that was a sign or a comforting dream but it put me and my mom at peace. So I don't know if god is real but that dream makes me want to say something is out there and it does play a role minor as it may be in our lives this is my I can never go full atheist but I do question if he/she/it is out there watching over us. Hope this help. Who know maybe I am crazy
Yea we’re both pretty much centrists I’m a little more right and your a little more left we probably differ on tax policy and abortion and size of the federal government. We all wants best for humanity
“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” Romans 1:19-20 ESV I find it hilarious when people think God must do something for them. That God must conform to their demands and requests.
Who is God that he must obey the demands of men? As if God is going to preform some super natural event just for 1 sinner who is just arrogant enough to think God will revolve things around that sinner. As if God is on his throne in heaven going: “that sinner down there doesn’t believe in me, I must act like a genie and conform to that sinners demands for me to reveal myself so they can believe in me.” Meanwhile in the sinners mind it’s: “well God….. if you want me to believe in you I need you to prove your existence.”
I find it hilarious. Either way the sinner will be hell bound if he doesn’t repent and on the day of judgment the sinner will not be able to tell God that he deserves no punishment because the sinner, in all his wisdom and power, demanded God revel himself and he didn’t reveal himself as the sinner imagined.
You want to know more of God? First you must repent. Then with a sincere and repentant heart you must do this:
“You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:13 ESV
I also find it hilarious people who don’t believe in God will spend hours either in school or on their own studying complex scientific fairytales about how one giant atom magically appeared on its own, that it created itself from nothing, then exploded creating all the stars and planets and cosmos. They will also spend vast amount of time studying another fairytale that save time describes who essentially man evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees.
They will then spend all of 15 seconds staring up into the heavens and say: “God if you’re there, prove it……well no answer so God doesn’t exist.” Truly comical. Perhaps even sadder is that’s all that’s required to put the burning question of God’s existence to rest in their minds.
That's not proof. You can write to Santa Claus, but not getting an answer isn't proof of non-existence. You can write a letter to Eminem, and if he doesn't make a song about it, that's not proof he doesn't exist, either.
We've been round and round this for ages and ages. You can't prove God exists, and you can't prove it doesn't. It's just got to be a matter of faith either way. For me, the more information I have, the more it builds a framework supporting the hypothesis that God does not exist. But I used to believe in God, and I understand how people who do believe in God take things like the existence of butterflies or the ocean to be proof that they are right. I see know how cute and simple minded that is, but also how alluring and seemingly self evident it can be, even to the intelligent.
@OddBeMe that's for the individual to ponder (or not). My belief it is generally human nature to be curious, to try and find answers to questions. To me, religion is one answer to the unanswerable questions. Not to belittle, but it is using imagination to answer that which we have no empirically derived answer for.
So, at least imho, the reason for considering is basic human thirst for knowledge and understanding.
@dustybiker @OddBeMe oh, my bad I didn't understand the "why consider it (God) at all?"
I just think "God" is a low hanging fruit so to speak. Rather than deal with an elaborate process of logic and reasoning, you just rely on "magic" and can easily *poof* any answer into existence. It's so easy, a child could (and they do!) do it. It's not hard to come up with an answer for anything and everything if you have an omnipotent, omniscient, invisible magic being to back up any creative answer you come up with.
@OddBeMe@zeitgeist057 Yes, I agree in that it’s whatever works as effective method of crowd control. A god just happened to be it. Then its bend and warp the game rules to fit any given situation.
the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are some examples of what blocks one from receiving.
A deep Humility is one of the keys to opening it.
It is written: “All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, ‘God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble”
There is a thin wall that separates you from it
It is written: “For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them”
Find a small church and get three believers who hear from the holy spirit, and pray with them for the revealing
It is written: “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart”.
It is written: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me”.
He is knocking at the door of your heart, the food is spiritual food. Go now and get this done soon.
It is written: but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.
In the scriptures we find the following examples “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness” “For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” “And now, go, write it before them on a tablet and inscribe it in a book, that it may be for the time to come as a witness forever.”
I'm actually an atheist, and I do not have a belief in any god... But hell no, that's not enough evidence to make a statement like "God doesn't exist" I dont think you should believe in god, but not because I have evidence he doesn't exist. You shouldn't believe in god because there's no evidence he DOES exist...
You can't prove a negative. If god is real, it may be possible to prove he exists. If he does not exist, there is no way to ever prove he doesn't exist.
Me: "I have a baseball signed by Babe Ruth" My friend: "If you really own a Babe Ruth signed baseball, then show me!" Me: "You can't prove I DONT have one, therefore you can't say it doesn't exist!" My friend: "... You're so full of shit." <-- the logical response lol.
Lets suppose you own a car. Maybe you do, maybe you dont, but lets just hypothetically assume that you do... If you tell me this fact, I have an absence of evidence to support your claim. Does that mean your car likely doesn't exist? No. lol. It means nothing. If you refuse to provide evidence of your car, pictures, drive it right up to me and honk, anything, does that somehow mean you dont have the car? No. It might be highly suspicious from my perspective, but it could only ever be anecdotal evidence at best. And anecdotal evidence is essentially no evidence.
If I tell you I have a car but refuse to show you after decades of you asking (as I have with god) then that is evidence of absence. You can securely believe- within the margins of absolute certainty, which is impossible to know- that I don’t have a car.
What if a religious person says "I dont believe in black holes" You might say, "They exist. Here's the very complicated maths to prove it." They might tell you, this is nothing to me, im not a mathemetician. I dont believe in black holes. Wheres your evidence? You could show them pictures of space where nothing exists, just big black voids where space stuff should be, but isn't. They might say, right but thats not a black hole. it's a big black patch in space. that doesn't prove a black hole, it just proves that there's black stuff in sapce.
So by your logic, this person would be wise and logical to believe blackholes are not real, as they were not personally supplied with evidence to support such a belief.
sometimes i think it's unfair for people like you who've never had an experience with something more that you feel abandoned and alone from the grace of God and that He doesn't exist. I wish you had experienced the things I had in terms of spirituality. I've heard and witnessed things as a child. I no longer can and I think because of my many prayers and fears God backed off and so did those spirits because I dont think they were there to hurt me or cause me fear. But when they saw and heard how deathly afraid I was they just quietly left my life.
I've asked for a lot of things that didn't happen. Church and other Christians really confused me on how I should ask and what response I should look for. Honestly the only thing that kept me from concluding he didn't exist was the testimony of someone I knew wouldn't lie to me and I trusted had good judgement of what they experienced. So I knew something didn't add up, i just couldn't say that something was God's existence.
Now I've not been able to communicate myself yet but I have noticed maybe a couple things this past month. Maybe 3. I'm writing them down now as they come so I won't forget. I'm not sure if it's actual from God or if it's just my brain getting back in a mindset to be able to actually hear from God again or what. But it's something, which is more than I've had in a long ass time.
Besides, I think if you want to prove* God doesn't exist you would be better to prove its impossible for him to exist than to prove just that you haven't personally seen him.
In their beliefs? Sure. But in their personal, sensory experience? I sincerely doubt it. I think it's more reasonable to believe they have actually had those experiences than to believe they are insane. And if that's the case, the best explanation I know of that kind of experience is God.
Wow, no. Look at the huge scientific research into eye witness testimony. It’s prove over and over that an event witnessed by multiple people will produce multiple different eye witness accounts. Eye witnesses are the lowest valued evidence.
Bro but if someone knows what a cat looks like, and what a cat acts like, and they say "yes I saw a cat this morning. It was grey and had stripes and it was sitting on my front porch. It walked up to me and I pet it. It was warm and had fur and whiskers and a heartbeat and it meowed. And then it left."
How you gon say "no that's not reliable you can't really think they saw a cat just because they think they saw a cat. Maybe their neighbor didn't see the cat! How silly. That's no evidence."
No. You should really do your research on eye witness accounts. But you’re also conflating a cat with the creator of the universe. One has a higher level of evidence to believe doesn’t it?
I hope you haven’t based your whole ideology on someone else’s experience which more than likely isn’t 100% true.
Should believing in God need more evidence than believing in a cat? No. Why the hell would it?
Look man you've been pretty polite about thinking I'm stupid so far and I appreciate that, but if we really disagree about this testimony thing I don't think we can go any further.
If I didn't believe testimony then I wouldn't have good reason to believe in anything I couldn't see or hadn't seen before. The northern lights? Bird nest soup? Greenland? Basically all the evidence I have of those are testimony. But it would be unreasonable for me to not believe they exist, even though I don't currently* have any other evidence.
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I asked the same if i had a personal angel guiding me in life if she could make herself known. She did although she refered to herself as "Co-Pilot High Up" to keep it in understandable terms you can't tie to a religion.
Its a rare blessing though, most people who try either get nothing or fail to notice.
Her name is Lauren. I am not sure how relevant gender is to them, but at first i had a feeling she'd be female. Turned out to be true, or alternatively because i was most comfortable with female she chose a female persona to present herself as.
What if He's a just a mean son of a bitch who hates you?
I think it was the atheist Hitchens who said, nearing death, "It's not that I don't believe in God. It's more that I *hate* Him..." Or was it someone else whose name escapes me at present...
Attempting to deconstruct and seeking fallacy within the Bible actually converted me to become Christian. Frank Tiplers work as a physicist is what made me dive deep down the rabbit hole. This question is mockery, or the most linear case against religious theology I’ve ever heard of.
The foundation of your argument seems so shallow and linear. Surely there’s more depth to the creationism vs atheism argument. That and your responses. That’s why I assumed it was mockery. My question comes from genuine intent, not sarcasm or mockery. I don’t know what your intent is for certain, but I made judgement call based on what I just mentioned.
I’m not really rendering emotional complexity into this. You don’t have the ability to impact my emotions negatively or positively given that you’re simply a faceless avatar on the internet. I think your question lacks so much depth, that it comes across as trolling for the reasons I mentioned. Having a different belief system doesn’t default to someone being indoctrinated in the way you’re suggesting. You’re suggesting that I’m unable to perceive logic and rational reasoning anymore. Add some depth, and we can have a discussion. So far you’re just pointing the finger at me saying you’re dumb with no foundation. Tell me why you oppose religious theology with some substance, and we can have an intellectual conversation. It seems to me as if you get a kick out of mocking those who have a different theology on life acting as if you’re better than. That’s such an off putting personality trait you’re exposing here. You and your 37 years of life have settled this debate that’s been going on since the start of time? There’s not even a marginal opposition in your thesis? You can’t tell me that’s not arrogant. You’ve presented me with nothing but baseless insults. Are you here to mock others with a false superiority complex, or do you want to actually have a real conversation? It’s it’s the ladder, I’m willing to engage. If not, I don’t want to participate.
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You can never prove the non-existence of God. All we know is that religious practices have no effect on one's well-being (ignoring persecution from others who believe differently). Since there is no evidence that God exists or that religious practices have any value, long ago I decided not to participate.
He owes u nothing and has nothing to prove we are children in his eyes and just be humble and go slow and talk to him like u would talk to any best friend we all flip light switch have no clue how electricity works nor understand it but we r 100% positive light will turn on
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no. purely logicall speaking that's proof that nothing happens when you ask god to reveal himself. it does not proofhis existence or non existence. there's actually no way to proof the "non existence" of anything. because there's always that "but it may exist in some part of the universe or parralel universe" or whatever horse shit.
however a "claim of existence" is not proof of existence either. and that's all there is for god. and if you wanna think like a logic person instead of thinking like an insane person, you don't accept things to be true before they have actually been shown to be true.
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God already revealed Himself to you and everyone else through His power in creation.
You just happen to decide to be delusional and live a life void of God not having to worry about God watching you every single second and knowing your thoughts which makes you feel uncomfortable.
Lmao at that picture. I have faith that God exist but it came through logic and evidence. I suppose what you are looking for I have, which is not blind faith.
It took me paragraphs upon paragraphs to explain it to the last guy on GAG. No way I'm typing that out again But I'll ask you 2 questions and give you 1 task and you'll find some of the answer. The task is the most important thing. First let us define God in a simple fashion. God is the impersonal, intelligent, sole source or power from which are all things of matter, in their natural state, spring. God is everything; everything is God. Infinite.
Now let us move on to the questions and your task. Q: Is this an orderly universe? Q: Has it required the most intelligent men to figure out but a few orderly, universal laws? Task: Go ask a non-religious scientist what is the only thing that is omnipresent, then go ask any theologian what is the only thing that is omnipresent. No need for me to bring up that God is impersonal unlike humans. I imagine you already have all the evidence you need to come to that conclusion. This is the beginning of the topic and the least of benefit but it alone will give you the proof you need as along as you go by the definition I gave you and not some angry God sending people to some imaginary hell. That is not to imply the Bible, a book of science in oriental style, is not worth studying but more so to imply the ignorance of religious people; especially bible lovers of an occidental viewpoint. The Task is by far the most important part and even alone will prove this definition of God: God - the sole source from which all matter, in its natural state, springs. God is everything. God is infinite. To be more clear, God is the formless, one and only source or substance from which all things of, animate and inanimate, form spring. After the task, if a deeper understanding is needed, it may be helpful to study relative laws and basic science. E=mc^2 etc etc. If after sufficient understanding is captured, it will be of huge personal benefit to study the more hidden sections of this topic. That I will not speak on. I believe it is meant to be explored on your own and I find it no accident that the Bible writes in such confusing, oriental style. My only recommendation is that you come to an understanding from the scientific perspective so that you may understand the Bible properly and not get stuck or become deluded by its outer meaning as most do or so that you do not need to study the Bible at all for that matter. But remember the task is all you asked for.
And the universe is “orderly” to those who don’t understand it. Funny thing about intelligence, the more you have - the more you know how much intelligence you lack. Think on that for awhile.
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Angels appear to BELIEVERS. You don't believe. Why would waste his time on you? God appeared before Moses and Abraham. Angels usually appear to people. Of course Jesus which is God in man formed talked to many people. You will never see God the Father. If you looked upon God , your eyes would boil in its sockets. Only Jesus can look upon God.
See you are too ignorant to even understand God and his glory.
It has been said in scripture and the bible itself, that he presents himself to us in different forms and happenings. Just because he isn't doing it in the form of Man right in front of you, doesn't mean he isn't there and making himself known.
It isn't easy to have an awareness of God, but once you do, it becomes so obvious that you can't become unaware of it. It also really isn't a matter of proof. There are many things we experience in life that we do not set out to prove, or know how we would prove if we were to try. The best we can say is to encourage others to have the same experience so that they will see it too.
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Nope. Proof you are too simple a mind to have faith.
You sound like the sort of dimwit that would ask a hitman to kill someone of your choosing, all to "prove" they are a hitman.
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Lol God does miraculous things but im sure if he actually showed himself to you, you'd be in a physc ward from telling people shat you saw & nobody believed you. I know God is real cause my life was super ugly but it was turned around for the better & the weird uncomfortable blessings were from God. It never came from me, i just did the work.
@Daniela1982 if you receive an email from God offering $450k would you click on it? Strange how if it’s a Nigerian Prince you know automatically it’s phony.
It's strange that you don't. By the way, God is not tested by humans when they say reveal yourself to me. Besides you couldn't stand His glory in your human body any more than Moses could. That is why God told him to only look at his back, not his face.
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God will never show to us afther we fall from the EDEN garden is one of curse that we inhearted from the forbiden fruit, to not be able to ever see God. Nobady had ever see God
Seriously why? You’re looking at it for an indoctrinated mindset. Try studying science and you’ll see that the 4.5 billion years humans weren’t on the planet there's been no sign of god either.
1: How do you know that there was no revelation and you were just too dumb to see? 2: How the fuck does one has the nerve to order god around and expect it to work?
1: doesn't mean you aren't dumber than even the dumbest religious person. 2: You don't have to believe what's not given proof, but it's not like you listen to facts anyway in other regards and has been shown here frequently believing despite the evidence.
One, I already told you how to test a model, you apply the model and see how well or if it works. If you find an internal contradiction, as one example, you have to redesign/prune the model. You might have to ditch it completely.
How do you disprove evolution? First you have to know what evolution entails, and for your surprise, there isn't one "evolutionary theory of life", but a whole corpus of work that keeps being disproven and adapted to fit new data. Literally every week the phylogenetic tree and the assumptions that made it get revised. And those assumptions, up to that point, were part of evolutionary theory.
The moral here is that technically you don't prove theories, you attempt to disprove them and you fail. (well, you do, with math and logic, but in the case of science, you don't.)
Revised or updated? You know evolution is literally measured- sorry tested- with fruit flies that live for 24 hours. We change the environment and literally measure- test- the changes in dna from fruit fly generations. So evolution is proven.
I ask for a final time. Is there a way for me to measure -test- your god as we test fruit flies?
So, you said we test fruit flies, not evolution. By testing fruit flies and comparing to the model, we test the model.
And you still ask me while failing to give a model. I still have no idea of what set of axioms you call god. I'm just very aware it has nothing to do with what people usually call god.
You are just a stupid "atheist" who has the arrogance to think you got a trump card, after you failed so much in general logic because you don't believe in logic to begin with.
I gave you what your "test" might mean. 1: if there's a valid model with a god, you can't expect to order god around. 2: your instruments might not be sensitive enough for the data produced.
Well, then how did you think this would be a good test if you don't even have a working definition?
I'm gonna ask if OddBeMe is not a pedo, with no working definition of what means, and if I don't have a file right now with videotaped evidence of OddBeMe entire life, then I can only conclude is pedo.
See how dumb it's? There was once upon a time when that's what the smartest did, lol! And that explain why people thought seeing the future through guts was a good idea.
"But how would you define god?"
Well, one good definition is that god is the directionality of the set of all things, since people tend to say god is some sort of "engineer" of all things, and it was "done" with a "purpose". Another good definition is that god is what reinforces itself in a large time scale, ideally with limit to infinity, weirdly enough, it also fits evolution and the first definition.
I have to go to work, so I'll make this quick. You're assuming that God must cater to your whims in order to demonstrate 'His' reality, but that's just so absurd for so many reasons that I don't even know where to begin. Are you at all familiar with the term, 'An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence'? Something may still be real, may still exist, in spite of the fact that no evidence for the entity or phenomenon in question can be found. You're assuming far too much, and you didn't even bother to provide any reasonable definition of what you even mean by the term "God".
Why are you seeing this issue in terms of what you can "get from God"? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe God just doesn't care about giving you "stuff"? Maybe She just doesn't care about you, or maybe She's got better things to do (like manage the universe).
Oh, you're presuming to tell me what I believe, as though I don't know myself! HOW ARROGANT! No, I do NOT believe in the existence of "magic sky man". This is what I DO believe: God, for lack of a better term, is the atemporal, immaterial non-contingent cause both of reality itself as we know it, and everything that may possibly exist beyond that reality. It, not 'He', didn't create our universe at some point in the past, but sustains in existence at every possible moment in time our universe and all the others (if they exist). "Sky daddies" and "magic men" never come into it. Stop mischaracterising and misrepresenting what others believe. It's rude, it presumptuous. It also just reveals how utterly dishonest and stupid you are when you do it.
@Miss_G Even if I am, you have to admit that his question is really silly, and I know enough about 'OddBeMe' to know that he isn't at all interested in having his presuppositions challenged, his beliefs questioned, or engaging in even a modicum of self-examination. He just likes to mock people who believe in God, and is not at all serious about seeking answers to life's big questions. He is a die-hard atheist who just doesn't understand people who don't agree with his views, because he isn't at all open to new ideas.
God isn't some one who just does anything people want him to do. Yes he will sometimes do things that you ask but he won't just give you everything you ever want just because you have faith.
@OddBeMe Please how old are you so i can explain to you accordingly? The basic is : God almighty i the all knowing he does not beget nor is he begotten.. U can can text me on my account if u dont want to expose ur age etc…
Well, that's hilarious. You telling me to never believe something because you want to. I'm not the kind of person to do that. You, on the other hand...
God isn't going to communicate with a proud smart ass. Here what I did. I fell to my knees and said " Lord I apologize. I'm going to open my mind and stop being too arrogant and proud for you. I know that in time I will feel your love as long as I'm humble and patient. I was an arrogant and proud fool to think you should beg for my love when it is I who doesn't even deserve your attention, Lord."
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