What was the first thing that has ever existed that resulted the creation of everything?

[marish01]

Whatever that first thing is called, how was it created? If it was created then how is it the first thing to have existed?

Updates

1 y

Whatever that very first thing was, did/does it have no begininning? If no then was it created by nothing?

[ohsheeT]

Maybe it was a plan maybe it was a bet.
Maybe we were created and then evil said to God that he could create something better and God said no God believes in US he said I could put you on Earth with my people and they will never follow you in a thousand years
I will put them on the earth with you and they will never follow you.

And when we were born we were all given that gift that gift a choice and he knew right then and there that we were going to sin

He knew that he would lose some of us an. He would teach us Plus for putting us in this position he said that he would send his son to die for all of us.. but we still had to follow rules to go back home our destiny is to become one with ourselves to love ourselves one with others to love everybody all together to love this universe as one that is our goal that is our goal on Gag when bad people come in we have to try to teach them to become one because everything is connected everything every aunt to cockroach to ladybug to be to butterfly to bird everything is connected but we all have to become one in order for it to work to become the best we possibly can become

Look at the people that judge look at the people that create drama they hold us all back God said there was going to be a holy war there is a holy war going on each and every day there are bullies there are bad people and if they can get you to get angry to change who you are to become one of them because evil is here an evil is trying to take over and take the good but there are many fighters.

Who will never change who will always fight as one of God's soldiers but there's people in our lives each and every day they try to hold us back to try to create drama to make us angry to become one of them the holy war is here it has been here and you just have to look at it and understand who you truly are and not go there

Our leaders that every country elects look at all of them right now Putin China they're evil bidened Trump they're all evil because they want to take from somebody they want something so they can get what they want that's chaos that's destruction and we are electing these people to take us down that road that they keep creating to keep us held down

We've all been here for a long time we're just waiting we get along for the most part but there's something special here there's good here there's evil here.

I have watched the bad become good I have watched the good go someplace else but for the most part we keep this place pretty good

I've always said there's something special about this place I don't know why we are all still here but I know that we are and there's a reason for that and it goes deeper than asking questions and answers

I know that I'm not answering your question I just had to say what I had to say because it's been on my mind for a long time

If I had my way we would all become one and we would experiment prove to the world that this is who we are and what we're here for and all we would have to do is all of us get on the same page and make something happen to all of us at the same time make it happen because that's truly who we are we're supposed to create we're supposed to love we're supposed to teach and share.

If you've noticed in life there are many different levels look how many times gag has changed and become better and become the better year after year sometimes we fall but we get right back up and it becomes better that's who we are too if we are to look at the whole picture

Anyway the first thing had to been love. A bond a truth I love a gift

What is the biblical meaning of your full name

I don't remember mine it's something like my name is Steve Tice and my name either means God's gift or gifts from God

There is a book written 3,000 years ago called the Bible code it has each and every single one of our names in there and it has the blueprint of everything we have done and said and become and with the blink of an eye we can change the story in the Bible code in that book


Whatever the answer is to your question I would love to know what it is I'm not saying that I'm right on All the above it's all just jibber jabber but I know that there's something in there that I've said that is true.

I know everything on this planet is energy everything vibrates everything has a frequency if we knew how to control that we could do so many things it's unreal we can float we could tell that weekly communicate we almost do that now but we are special whoever we are whatever the reason we are special and the better of a person would become the more special we become just stay away from the drama and the judgment and love people teach people love teach people in order to get what you want you don't have to get angry you don't have to become evil there's ways to go about things and that's becoming one with yourself one with everything and one with this universe

[lightbulb27]

what if nothing exists and nothing ever did? ok... forget about that for now...

In the question is the trick..."ever"... e. g. "time". Time does not exist, it's a figment of our minds due to being a "being" and feeling we are separated from "IT". It is a logical construct. Once we are gone, we are part of what is and always was and always will be... which is timeless. thats why our right emotional side brain is so amazing... it tunes into that which is. The left brain gets in the way but is essential to translating reality. ugh!

Now we are energy and energy can transform. Some could be "reborn" into new life, if it is foud worthy of doing so, can be taken into another place, in a new body. Others not worthy... why give it life again if it was energetically corrupt in teh first place? Nah... burn it up so doesn't come back.

...

On a funnier note...

The first thing that existed I call "Bulbbleblubble", or bb for short. bb existed and IS, it flows between everything, universes are tiny tiny. It started from a... a..."big bang"!!! yea... that's the ticket!

[jojouzumaki]

Sounds like a cosmological argument.


The question does not address the actual premise of and argument and rests on a misunderstanding of them. “What’s infinity minus infinity?”

[MasterKS]

@jojouzumaki you nailed it! LOL

[marish01]

How do you explain minus infinity regarding the universe?

[strateguy632]

'equation as ∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1"

[strateguy632]

For @jojouzumaki the equation.

[marish01]

@strateguy632 I know it in mathematics but explain the minus infinity of the universe.

[nawtee_me]

Any number minus itself is zero…

[marish01]

@nawtee_me so what physical object is (-) any number?

[nawtee_me]

Just that infinity minus infinity equals zero

[marish01]

@nawtee_me again how can a physical being being MINUS lol

[WhitneySnow]

The Big Bang. As a Christian I believe that God caused the Big Bang.

[marish01]

The big bang theory is not even scintific proof. Not all scientists belive in it.

[WhitneySnow]

Most do

[marish01]

The illogical part of it is that it claims time and space were created AFTER the big bang

[Jennz6]

@WhitneySnow🥰
I believe the same thing as you, GOD made it bang

[Amur8711]

I agree with the big bang

[marish01]

@Amur8711 my question referst to the very first thing that existed

[Amur8711]

God existed first

[TheorionMage]

'Consciousness' is the coming awareness of anything OUTSIDE one's self and the expression of interest & curiosity of 'the Other'.

It is said: "We are made in the image and "like-ness" of GOD. Humans 'manufacture'... but GOD creates from nothing but GOD's consciousness & imagination.

WHERE is the ONLY place humans 'create' rather than assemble from the PRE-EXISTING?
In our imaginings... our 'day dreams'... we can... and do... call into existence, entire internal 'realities' ... replete with animate inhabitants who's continuance is CHOSEN literally moment-to-monent at OUR deliberate behest.

From THEIR perceptions... WE ARE subjectively 'GOD'.
The 'nature' of our Subconscious sanctions their behaviors.
That which YOU do NOT forbid, is potentially permissible (in THAT subjective 'reality')... and YOUR Word was made flesh". Fiat lux!

[ChicoFromThe305]

Depends on how you look at it, nothing and something only exists because we said so, everything we know is inside our universe and if we were to zoom in and start from on earth and zoom out, you'll see stars and galaxies and nebulas, black holes and all kinds of fascinating things and all these things are something, inside something, inside something, inside something etc, and for all we know this logic and truth only exists within our universe which would mean that what designed and created this universe is outside of it and what's outside of it is probably something completely uncomprehendable to our minds, but to believe that this same logic of every creation needing to have a creator is the only truth even outside of our universe, that would be a far reach of a hypothesis considering even some of the things we see inside our universe can sometimes twist the logic in what we know as the truth, so my point is that if in this tiny bubble we call a universe has its own logic, that logic might not be the same in whatever is outside of it, which if our universe just keeps expanding we can only assume whatever that outside is, it's far more fascinating and it's possible that the logic in that outside might be that the creator was always there, a form of logic that our universe will never relate too, some scientists believe this outside contains more universes with different forms of logic.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Which means in another universe up can be down and down can be up and gravity can pull up instead of down and the universe can be imploding instead of expanding, who is to say that the farther you float into space, logic doesn't change and gravity pulls upwards instead of downwards, I hope you get the point I'm trying to make, to believe our creator might have a creator is thinking small.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Last thing before I shut my yap, how do you know that the only reason creations have a creator being the proper logic isn't because our creator designed it that way for us specifically, for all we know, our creator (I personally believe in God so I'ma just call our Creator God) God could've just told himself, I was always here but within my creation the truth and the logic will be that starting with me, everything created will have a creator, God being outside of time means he live in infinite, which means there's no beginning of end which only points that he himself has no beginning or end.

[ChicoFromThe305]

No beginning or end*

[Jennz6]

I don’t believe so

[ChicoFromThe305]

Infinity is just infinity, there's no start or finish, if there was then the start would be the end and the end would be the start, this loop would go forever which would basically in a way freeze anything in it forever, you can't create something that was always there because there can't be a creation to something with no beginning, it would have always been there.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Think of a number counting up, numbers are unlimited too, it will just keep adding another digit in every tenth, then hundreds, then thousands but past a certain number that count would be counting up so fast that it will freeze at all zeros because it will just keep going up, then it will eventually be so many digits that will just keep going that you'll lose count and there comes another infinity, infinity plus infinity is infinity, kind like 0x0=0.

Expect it's 000000... x0000000...=0000000..., these zeros will never end, an endless loop.

[ChicoFromThe305]

So many zeros that you'll never reach that 1 at the beginning of the number

[Ladsin2]

The question seems to hold a bevy of presumptions within it, but I can swing an answer. I presume you're asking what's the uncaused-cause that started the universe. Frequently called the First Cause Argument for God. There are a few problems with this argument. Theists will say that God is an uncaused-cause, but that nothing else can be. This is a problem of special pleading, for example. It also, by it's nature, decreases the likelihood of the theists answer. If we both agree the Big Bang occurred and I say, "I don't know how it happened" and you say, "I know, and it was an omnipotent, omniscient, fantastical singular entity that care about your life" you're adding multiple layers of complexity that decrease the likelihood of your supposition.

As for my answer. Lawrence Krauss is a cosmologist who wrote a pretty interesting book called "A Universe From Nothing: Why There's Something Rather Than Nothing." In it he explains that what we call "nothing" is actually something. When you remove every "thing" from a space it is naturally unstable. If you remove the protons, neutrons, electrons, quarks, and all of matter that makes up everything that is a thing there's still something left behind. This is what cosmologists call Dark Matter, or WIMPs. This weak energy is so prevalent that it's actually the most prevalent force in the universe and it's what we would call "nothing". As such it may in fact be the case that "nothing" is a highly unstable state of being and would naturally give birth to something.

PS I'm a bit tipsy so hopefully this was legible enough to understand. Ask if I need to clarify.

[marish01]

Atheists made up absurd claims just tp exclude God. You rrally think what you said is logical? If I were an atheist the scientific claims including the one you suggested would make me a theist

[Ladsin2]

If you remove everything from existence you are left with nothing. This "nothing" is still "something". "It's" also unstable. Thus it seems that nothing will always generate something. It seems fairly straight forward to me.

Even if the answer I gave isn't true, or doesn't make sense to you it doesn't matter. I can just say that we don't know how the universe came into existence. The theist has the burden of proof as they're saying that they know what created the universe and what it thinks.

[marish01]

Those arguments only play with words just to remove God.
"Something is not something, nothing is not nothing. That nothing is a little something, that is less than nothing blah blah.
Absurd

[marish01]

So is it nothing or something?

[Ladsin2]

Nothing is something according to Krauss. I don't know how many different ways to say that...
Define "nothing" for me.

[marish01]

Can nothing exist as physical form?

[Ladsin2]

Define nothing.

[marish01]

"Nothing is something according to Krauss"

Define the nothing that is something lol

[Ladsin2]

You're not describing nothing. Is there another way I can ask the question?
EveryTHING in the universe is made up of particles. There are various types of fundamental particles, photons, neutrons, electrons, leptons, bosons, quarks, etc. When you remove all of the THINGS from the universe you should be left with NO-THING. It turns out, however, that NO-THING, is actually SOMETHING.

[marish01]

You didn't remove everything

[Ladsin2]

So nothing doesn't exist.

[marish01]

"Nothing is something according to Krauss"

Define that nothing that is something lol

[Ladsin2]

Simple, dark matter. It's No-Thing, yet still something.
If you're a romantic you could say love is nothing, yet still something.

[marish01]

But in the universe, can nothing be a physical object that created the (first) universe?

[Miristheiss]

God.

Things don't just come out of now where... from nothing.

Matter is here. Iron, Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Silicon, Calcium... etc. It is unfathomable how much matter and energy exists. Everything comes from somewhere/something. Things cannot just spring out of nothing. There is life, life just doesn't spring out of nothing.

It has been parroted so much that some " primordial soup" just somehow came into being and then a single cell lifeform just sprang up. Life doesn't just come out of nothing. "Soups" also don't just come from nothing.

"The fool has said in his heart that there is no God"

[marish01]

The claim that big bang created time and space is stupid.
So time and space didn't exist before the big bang. This mean the process of explosion happened OUTSIDE OF TIME AND SPACE.
LOL

[Miristheiss]

Even the big bang theory... the bang didn't create anything it supposedly just caused the already existing matter to move out from the center of the explosion in all directions. The big bang theory still doesn't have any way for energy, matter and life to spawn out of nothing.

[marish01]

What was the already existing matter that initiated the big bang? Has it always existed?

[loveslongnails]

Your reply is the same as throughout the ages - which is simply to say, God was always there and God created everything. So who created God? There is no answer to that. Yet, you say " Everything comes from somewhere/something" - so where did God come from? You say " Things cannot just spring out of nothing. There is life, life just doesn't spring out of nothing." So who or what gave "life" to God?

Some folks are not content to say " I have no idea", and are very happy with God being the answer to all that is unanswerable. Personally, I don't mind not knowing all these answers.

[Grond21]

This is touching up on the Kalam cosmological argument.

Everything that began to exist has a Cause
The universe began to exist.
Therefore the universe has a Cause

If everything requires a Cause, or if everything requires something else to have created it, then you have an infinite string of things dependent on something earlier, and thats illogical. Turtles all the way down.
Therefore by necessity there has to be something that kick-started the whole chain of cause and effect. Something that caused everything but is uncaused, something that created everything but is uncreated

[marish01]

Exactly.
And the uncreated creator doesn't have a begining. It has always existed.

[strateguy632]

To grond correct, a spiritual God is a "logical necessity " as you explained. 👨‍🎓🏅

[Grond21]

Yes, an uncreated non-physical spiritual being that is personal is a necessity

[marish01]

Non physical spiritual being that doesn't require space and time for existence as only physical being exist within time and space.
Is this what you meant?

[Grond21]

Yes. It has to be a spiritual being, it has to be personal, it has to be outside of space and time, it has to be necessary and not contingent, it has to be the creator of everything, it has to be perfection itself and the source of all other perfection, it has to be all knowing, all powerful, all present, and all good.

[marish01]

You just answered all my other questions I was going to ask, like the purpose of our lives, objective morality, etc

[Grond21]

Well I can answer them a little more explicitly. The purpose of our lies is unity with another person. An infinite person who we were made for who will satisfy us infinitely, one who loves us with an unending divine love.
Morality is objective because moral prerogatives are built into the system from the ground up, and are a reflection of the morality of the system's creator. Who is all good.

[jshm2]

That's the thing, how do you define "existed" as we could know it?

It's more complicated than you think, and philosophers have pondered it for centuries and a day. You cannot see or feel wifi waves, but you know they are there if you have the right device.

Thus we can never "know" what existed back then, as we do not have the right devices to pick it up. Perhaps we never will.

But one thing we can know is that whatever was there before the singularity cannot have been mortal. Thus "existed" is the wrong word to use, as to "exist" means to have a beginning, and an end.

Something beyond that, is outside the purview of science and more in the line of religion and philosophy.

[marish01]

The thing before singularity has doesn't have a begining?

[genericname85]

well for all we know, everything always existed. all the things that we can observe which we call the "observable universe" is the only thing we can even talk about. "the universe" (including possibly things that we can't see) has to be outside of the discussion, cause we don't know shit about that.

so let's look at everything that we can see. the observable universe. was there ever a point in time where it wasn't there? i'm not aware of any evidence for that. so why assume that it wasn't there at some point?

[marish01]

Yes that is why I believe the claim that nothing created everything is absurd and illogical.

[genericname85]

Yeah agree. And I think that claiming a being created everything from nothing is even more absurd than that.

[marish01]

Then what would make him a creator?
You believe everything has always existed? So everything didn't need to be created?
Does that apply to the planets? They have always existed?

[genericname85]

i mean it would make him a crator, if he crated anything. but we can not point to a single thing and say with certainty and with proof that "this was created by god". like we know how life originates from basic chemicals. we know how stars and planets form. we know how complex eco systems work and we observed these things. We can stil observe these things every day. and at no point in the chains of these observable events was god a part of that. i'm not saying that cause got can't be a part of anything or because i do not want god to be part. the fact is that it's simply not the case.

[marish01]

That us why my original question refers to the very first thing that has existed.

[genericname85]

what's that very first thing?

[marish01]

That is my original question. To which you were unable to answer.

[genericname85]

ok. but me not knowing was the first thing was doesn't mean it was god. because not knowing the correct answer doesn't mean you get a free pass to put any idea you like as the "correct answer". that's not how it works. that's litterally an argument from ignorance and we have known that's a wrong and fallacious argument for probably thousands of years.

[marish01]

That is not what I said.
That's not what I asked.
According to your logic what was the first thing that started to exist?

[marish01]

Does your "I don't know" include God's existence?

[genericname85]

With god, my position is: god doesn't evidently exist. that's what I know.

[genericname85]

It leaves the possibility for evidence to turn up. But as of yet, that hasn't come up.

[marish01]

What kind of evidence of God would change your mind?

[genericname85]

almost any kind of evidence but it must include a body of facts which are positively indicative of, and/or exclusively concordant with the existence of god. testimonial evidence in this case can not qualify tho. because anyone saying something can not be proof for something existing. there's people who claim they saw mermaids, yetis or bigfoots. so people just saying it doesn't count. and it doesn't matter if it's people today or 3000 years ago. cause words someone said about something don't magically make that thing become reality after 3000 years. because that means in like 3000 years migfoot will exist because someone said so few years ago from now. so i hope you see why testimonial evidence doesn't matter in this case. anyone who gives testimony can lie or be mistaken. so we can't take that to substentiate a truth claim about reality. the reality itself must provide that evidence.

[marish01]

We got it. You don't cqll testimony evidence.
Now tell me what you would deem as evidence of God? Be more specific. What body of facts?

[genericname85]

no idea. again. you're pretty much asking me to provide the evidence.

[marish01]

What would you call an evidence of God's existence that would change your mind?

[genericname85]

again. you're asking me to provide the evidence. imagine you were at school and you were taking a test. could you ask the teacher "how would you imagine answering question number 4 b". you think he would help you? no. because that would be giving you the answer. the only difference to our conversation is that i'm not the teacher and i litterally do not have the answer, which is why i am an atheist in the first place.

[marish01]

You act as if you don't understand what evidence is.
If your woman cheats what kind of evidence would you need to make sure of it other than catching her cheat?
There can't be something in our life we are not sure but our brains are able to figure out what kind of detail would make us learn the truth about it, be it betrayal or jyst discovering something.
Evidence is not always visual

[genericname85]

there are things we can not understand. maybe some things we never will understand. that's not a positive truth statement or an argument for any position over any other. so you can't use that as an argument for anything.

i would for example "know" if my girlfriend of a year is cheating on me, if she was pregnant and we didn't have sex. she can't be pregnant from me, so her being pregnant shows me that she cheated even tho i didn't catch her in the act. see how that works?

i mean i guess if i said "god made her pregnant" you would believe that wouldn't you?`cause it litterally does that in the bible.

[marish01]

Other than pregnancy how else could you find it out?

[genericname85]

what do you mean "other than". i alrady invalidated your argument by showing that i don't need to be a direct witness of the act to know for sure. what argument are you trying to make here? "oh you gave me one compelling example but i'll need another one"? are you gonna ask for a 3rd and a 4th after that till i can't think of another one and then you'll be like "gotcha!"? xD what's your argument here?

[Guanfei]

Well, something we humans, with our brain wired to see only a finite time, we can't imagine: before everything, there was eternity. Literally endless time before, and after. And in that eternity, probably another universe, like ours, long gone.

Things didn't start at some point, time started at the same time as our universe, and it's a concept only humans understand.

The universe isn't everything. It's contained in the void of space. Once you reach the end of the universe, you don't hit a wall, you just get out of it.

That's something we humans have a hard time imagining, because we're not wired for that. Infinity. Infinite time, infinite space.

[marish01]

I also believe in the infinity of time and space

[marish01]

This is why not believing in God is absurd

[strateguy632]

To guan, as you say "probably" your faith is like god faith.

[Lightning8]

That which is outside of space and time and is therefore beyond classical physics, or even perhaps the quantum. A harder question though in my opinion is where consciousness comes from. Some say it's an emergent property from the physical world/universe, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence in current medicine and neuroscience for how subjective experience itself is actually produced. Others say consciousness may very well be a fundamental aspect of the universe along with physical matter, and that therefore there is probably a singularity of consciousness, which might imply the Eternal Divine. So yeah God makes the most sense to me.

[Lightning8]

along with or interwoven with physical matter

[AviatorTom]

Why does the first thing need to be created? Why can't it just always exist?

Maybe we shouldn't force our current understanding of space and time on other times and spaces that we know nothing about. For example, there's a theory that we live in an eternal infinite loop, and always have, that the universe expands until it collapses and starts to expand again. Rinse and repeat.

[marish01]

Ok so the first thing has always existed and it created everything?

[AviatorTom]

@marish01A perfectly valid explanation, open for discussion of course, is that the first thing always existed. How everything else happened from that is subject to a whole host of theories, including the Big Bang releasing electrons and protons that formed atoms of small elements that, over time, formed larger and larger element atoms. that ultimately resulted in living creatures.

[marish01]

The first thing couldn't come into existence from nothing as nothing means no energy, no matetial, no time and no space.

[AviatorTom]

@marish01 You are stuck on things you know and understand. Try thinking outside the box. There are many more things that we humans don't know than things we (think we) know.

Why can't there be "no energy, no matetial, no time and no space" in the universe?

[marish01]

Because that would make it nothing, non existence

[Matt_M]

Do I assume correctly that you're referring to the theory of loop quantum gravity as espoused by Carlo Rovelli and others? If so, you're mischaracterizing the theory if you're suggesting that it relies on the idea of a "first thing" from which the universe emerged.

Unlike the Big Bang Theory, loop quantum gravity completely dispenses with the idea of a "singularity" and, instead, suggests that a "quantum bridge" acts as a connection between expanding and contracting phases of the universe. In stead of positing a "Big Bang" from which the universe "began," LQG suggests a "Big Bounce" preceded by a "Big Crunch" in which time and space itself collapse into an infinitesimally small point in which the laws of classical physics break down and the laws of quantum physics take over.

The implication here is that, under these conditions, the universe would have no "beginning" and no "ending." Instead, it would undergo a perpetual cycle of expansion and contraction that conceivably could be going on forever.

[marish01]

@Matt_M even if the universe is cycical there was the first cycle. It can never have an end but it did have a beginning

[Matt_M]

That may very well be what you *believe,* but quantum physics doesn't obey those rules. Time as a linear succession of moments is a byproduct of human psychology, *not* a property of Nature itself.

[FreyaRed]

Planck units.
Those units determine resolution of space-time structure of our baryonic universe, it's minimal dimensions, minimal time, maximal temperature... Those units are the limits. It was the point our universe started to exist. Ergo: those units existed before our universe. Nothing has no units, no rules, no desire to be something

[marish01]

Did they have a begining?

[FreyaRed]

Those are definitions and something or someone had to set those before

[NamerOfStars]

You're operating from a faulty premise- that the default is non-existence. If you see a glass filled with water, you ask where the water came from, but if you see an empty glass, you don't ask where the water went- this is because you know the default state of a glass is to be empty, since that's how they're made.

But you don't know that about the universe.

[marish01]

But something created that glass

[NamerOfStars]

No- something RESHAPED EXISTING SILICON into that glass. It wasn't conjured from the ether.

[marish01]

Exactly.
There has always been something that created everything.

[NamerOfStars]

No, that's my point. There has always been SOMETHING. It doesn't have to be created if it's already there.

[strateguy632]

You self contradicted yourself something "first" means first! Not created.

Atheists can be such fools lol.

[marish01]

Especially those who claim there is such a thing as minus infinity of the space lol

[bowenw]

This website delves into that question:

https://www.inverse.com/science/where-did-the-building-blocks-of-life-come-from-its-complicated

[marish01]

It doesn't say how that first thing came into existence or if it has always existed

[bowenw]

Hopefully that will be learned someday.

[Juxtapose]

There never was nothing. Even in a VOID there are quantum particles that come into reality from seemingly nothing.

Invoking some desert tribe superstitious beliefs to explain away the universe because you don't understand science is ridiculous.

[SugarSugarplum]

@Juxtapose this
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5226056/
might be worth a read.

[Juxtapose]

@SugarSugarplum how does single parent households relate to this though?

[SugarSugarplum]

It posted to the wrong question. I guess I need to clip my nails LOL

[Juxtapose]

@SugarSugarplum haha mistakes happen! 🤜🤛

[Juxtapose]

But speaking as someone who was raised by mostly a single mom myself, sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes the dad is such a fucking dick you turn to the only other parent left.

[marish01]

So answer my original question Mr Science lover.

[Juxtapose]

My dad was the one to divorce my mom by the way even though she was trying to make the relationship work after he cheated on her numerous times.

[Juxtapose]

I believe there was no first thing and the universe or multiverse has been eternal. It goes into cycles of expansion and then contraction.

[Juxtapose]

There is literally is no place in the universe that has absolutely nothing in it. There's always quantum particles appearing.

[marish01]

They have always existed?

[Juxtapose]

Yes because there's no such thing as nothingness. It is a figment of your imagination. There is no such thing as a pure void with absolutely nothing. There has always been something.

[marish01]

You don't believe the big bang theory?

[Juxtapose]

I already mentioned the big bang theory.

"It goes into cycles of expansion and then contraction."

[marish01]

Time, space and matter have always existed, right?

[marish01]

Mr Science Lover, according to the big bang theory the big bang is the beginning of time ad space.

[Juxtapose]

The big bang theory does not make decorations on the beginning of time. It merely states that is as far back as we can really go with science at the moment. There are tons of scientists who believe that the universe is cyclical.

[Juxtapose]

*declarations

[marish01]

So which science is the accurate one?
I have heard other scientific theories that don't hold that view

[Juxtapose]

Do you not understand that scientific theories are constantly subject to change as new information comes about? And we don't have all the information on how the universe was formed or even if the universe is infinite or finite?

Do you just expect scientists to magically know everything? That's not how science works. There is no absolute fact in science.

[marish01]

I know that's why I don't take any scientific theory seriously.
You brought up science "Invoking some desert tribe superstitious beliefs to explain away the universe because you don't understand science is ridiculous"
This is whynI asked you to specify science as scientif theories about the inifinity of time and space vary

[Juxtapose]

Scientific theories are the highest you can go in science. There is no level of certification above that. Science is humble and realistic while religion is filled with hubris and certainty when they have anything but certainty.

[Juxtapose]

Faith is after all belief without evidence 🤷

[marish01]

I wasn't talking about religion. You can read my previous message to make sure of it. There are several scientific theories about the begining of time and space. Which one/ones do you believe in?

[Juxtapose]

I don't believe time or space had a specific beginning.

[Juxtapose]

Again, the concept of nothingness is merely that..

A concept.

[marish01]

How is that theory called so I do my research?

[Juxtapose]

Look up quantum vacuums and quantum physics in general.

[marish01]

"the universe or multiverse has been eternal"
The claim of eternity, something could exist without a begining only brings us closer to the existence of God.

[Juxtapose]

Please don't bring up superstition unless you have evidence to back it up. I find it tiresome to be brought up in a conversation about science because it shows your scientific illiteracy.

There is not a shred of evidence to support any religion whatsoever. It's all made-up bullshit.

[marish01]

Do you have evidence of multiverse hypothesis?

How do you exclude God's existence?

[Juxtapose]

Normally I don't suggest Wikipedia but they do a decent job of summarizing a lot of the core points here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

[Juxtapose]

I exclude God's existence as easily as I exclude the tooth fairy's existence. It's absurd rubbish with no evidence.

[marish01]

They are not the sane. You can't be that stupid.

[marish01]

Same*

[Juxtapose]

"You can't be that stupid."

That's what I think of religious people. You easily dismiss all these other gods as being pure fiction but you think your god is real.. without a shred of evidence.

At that point you may as well believe in the Easter Bunny.

[marish01]

Whatever we call the creator he is God.
It is illogical to think nothing created everything.
You said "There has always been something"
You believe something had no beginning yet think God is a fiction?
I heard many atheists say "I don't believe in God because I don't believe something could be eternal"

[Juxtapose]

There is no evidence of a creator. There is actually no known instance in the entire universe of "nothing" existing.

And insisting that there has to be a creator for anything to exist will just end up having an infinite loop where the creator has a creator and that creator has a creator, onto infinity.

[marish01]

"There never was nothing"
"the universe or multiverse has been eternal. It goes into cycles of expansion and then contraction."
"There are tons of scientists who believe that the universe is cyclical."

According to you there was no beginning and that there has always been something that existed?

[Juxtapose]

Yep, that's what I think is the most likely scenario. It still needs a lot more evidence but it has more credibility than religious claims.

[marish01]

How is it possible for it to never have a beginning?

[marish01]

even if the universe is cycical it doesn't remove the idea of the first cycle.
It can never have an end but it did have a beginning.

[Juxtapose]

There doesn't need it to be a beginning because what would be before that? It doesn't even make sense. The universe only makes sense as it is if you consider it existing in an infinite cycle.

[marish01]

It can go on forever but how did it never have a beginning?
How there doesn't need to be a beginning. Of course there has to be a beginning.
Based on which law of physics there can't exist a beginning of something that physically exists?
Tell me that law of physics? No beginning of something physical goes against science

[Juxtapose]

There is also no physical law saying there has to be a beginning or an end. Matter changes from state to state, it's never fully destroyed.

[Juxtapose]

The law I referenced is the conservation of mass.

[marish01]

"Matter changes from state to state, it's never fully destroyed"
I did say It can never have an end but it did have a beginning. I asked about the beginning not about the end or the destroyal. Lol.
I am not arguing about the possibility of the end but the BEGINNING.
"The law I referenced is the conservation of mass."
That something can exist without having a beginning?

[Juxtapose]

Look.. just because you can't personally comprehend that a beginning doesn't have to exist doesn't mean it has to exist.

Can your brain comprehend the concept of infinity? No. Can your brain comprehend the concept of a new color that you have never seen before? No. Your human perception is flawed. The universe has quantum physics and you think it's supposed to make sense when quantum physics is fuck crazy?

[marish01]

"Can your brain comprehend the concept of infinity?"
Yes that's why I believe in God.

[Juxtapose]

How does one relate to the other?

[Juxtapose]

And by the way human brains can't even hold 1,000 objects within our mental sight. Go ahead and try to imagine 1,000 things accurately, you just can't.

[marish01]

"Can your brain comprehend the concept of infinity?"
Yes that's why I believe in God.
"How does one relate to the other?"
God is infinite.

[Juxtapose]

So is the numerical concept of pi. Is pi the creator of the universe?

[marish01]

No.
In mathematics, infinity is the concept describing something which is larger than thr natural number.
Concept

[LiamJHayden]

The ultimate first cause of necessity would have the trait of aseity, self-existence.

[genericname85]

the ultimate cause is not logically needed if time is infinite.

[marish01]

@genericname85 if time has no begining so does space

[genericname85]

if time was always there, why can't space be always there?

[marish01]

@genericname85 that was what I said

[marish01]

@genericname85
If something can exist without having a begining then this claim brings us closer to God.

[genericname85]

So if the universe can always have existed, how can your claim that god brought it into existence make sense?

[marish01]

@genericname85 if the universe has always existed then God didn't create it. The universe and God have always existed.
But the universe itself as a space couldn't create everything.
What makes you think the infinity of something is possible as an atheist?

[genericname85]

I don't see how my position of atheism would conquer the concept of infinity. Atheism means that I do not believe a god exists. It literally means nothing else. The concept of infinity is entirely separate from that. I mean infinity may not be a real thing. I honestly don't understand enough about it to make a statement either way. All I'm saying is for all I know, everything just always existed. And you figure that may be the case also. So I'm wondering, if everything did actually always exist, then what's the point of God. And how do you know that he exists to begin with. I mean for something to always have been there it has to be there right now right?

[marish01]

@genericname85 atheism doesn't mean believing in God is a delusion either, right?
The concept of infinity has a lot to do with believing or not believing in God as God himself if he exists gas always existed, he never had a begining, he is infinite.
Right now everything we see exists. But has everything we see always existed. No.
Sure if everything we see has always existed then what's the point of God or what's the point of creations? But we know something can create another thing. So everything hasn't always existed.

[marish01]

Has*

[genericname85]

Believing anything to be true that is not evidently true is delusional according to my understanding of the word "delusional".

We do have many concepts in maths about all sorts of infinities. I'm not educated enough to know if infinity is actually something in the real world but it seems to make sense that for example conceptually there's infinite numbers. It doesn't mean I believe there's an infinite number of anything in real life. There may be. I don't know about that. So in that sense, god and infinities are similar for me cause I understand the fictional logic but I don't see it as a thing that exists in real life.

[marish01]

@genericname85 "Believing anything to be true that is not evidently true is a delusion"
Then so is any scientific theory about the universe.

[marish01]

You claimed what if everything has always existed. You claimed how are we sure time and space haven't always existed.
Then you call that fiction lol

"god and infinities are similar for me cause I understand the fictional logic but I don't see it as a thing that exists in real life."

[marish01]

@genericname85 if something has been eternal then that something is a very powerful something

[marish01]

@genericname85 time and space are not enough for creating everything

[genericname85]

i don't wanna be pedantic here but a "what if" question is not a claim. also asking how we can be sure of a thing is not a claim. questions aren't claims. i'm sorry. that's not what the word claim means.

" if something has been eternal then that something is a very powerful something" why? could be a stone that existed forever that has no power and never did anything. also see, this is another claim. that's what a claim is.

"time and space are not enough for creating everything" that is again an actual claim. it's not a question. and i do not believe that claim.

[BetaBucks]

The reason I avoid this topic is that it always boils back down to "it always has been" type of talk. Whether it's about the god of a religion or the big bang as our creator. There's no explaining it, outside of deliberately rhetorical misdirection.

[marish01]

Whatever created the big bang existed before the big bang. What created the big bang creator

[BetaBucks]

Exactly. And you can go on infinitely like this. There's no answer.

[marish01]

But there is.

[BetaBucks]

What is it?

[marish01]

How can there not be an answer? Just because science doesn't know it doesn't mean there is no answer

[BetaBucks]

I mean there's no answer that you or I can communicate, know or understand.

[marish01]

Are you an atheist?

[BetaBucks]

Agnostic-atheist, in that I don't personally believe in the deity of any religion, but also don't claim that any deity doesn't exist. The okay way to truly know that would be to be a god, myself. I also don't personally believe in the big bang, but don't claim it's not real either. I'm just a skeptic.

[Berethor]

"Why exactly is the creator of billions of galaxies is so obsessed with penises." - Scientist

https://www.youtube.com/embed/31uWQhYB4Ww

[sean1234]

God and the Godhead, the father, son and holy spirit has always existed, just forget about the rest. Don't even try to understand.

[sean1234]

That's my whole point. Don't think about it. God has always existed forever in the past and in the future also.

[Lliam]

Stars and galaxies are born and die. Things are in flux and continually change. It's not static. But it's possible that the universe is infinite and eternal.

[TallAnon]

Infinite nothing, which is a combination of infinite positive and infinite negative; With infinite time, it became unstable and split the infinite nothing.

Obviously a very dumbed down way of explaining the theory 🙂

[marish01]

Can't believe science would come up with such ilogical theory

[marish01]

That infinite nothing has no material?

[TallAnon]

Nothing is just a combination of a positive and a negative

[TallAnon]

If you want to actually look into this, google "particle-antiparticle annihilation". It can be observed and repeated and this is done quite often at places like the CERN particle accelerator.

[TallAnon]

But in short:
We have 1
We have -1
What are they together? 0

[marish01]

Lol how does your mind understand (-1) VISUALLY?

[TallAnon]

I'm sorry, are you trying to argue against the existence of negatives?

[marish01]

how does your mind understand (-1) VISUALLY?

Visually
Visually.

How can there physically exist (-1)

Lol

[TallAnon]

Just because something isn't easily visualized doesn't mean it can't exist; these phenomena are verified through experiments, not imagination.

Did you know that electricity doesn't flow through a wire, but the field generated outside the wire? Hard to visualize, easy to prove.

[marish01]

What you said is absurd. Either it exists or doesn't.
How do you prove the existence of something that is less than nothing?

[TallAnon]

If you want proof, read it yourself: journals.aps.org/.../PhysRevLett.122.041102

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist..

[marish01]

That was something a religious person could freely say, yet you would think they are illogical.

[marish01]

Use some logic how can nothing EXIST.
It is called nothing because nothing doesn't exist.

[TallAnon]

I gave you a source, read it. It explains the measurement of positrons, the antimatter counterpart of an electron.

[marish01]

It is not nothing then

[TallAnon]

Never said that either.

[marish01]

But you brought up infinite nothing

[TallAnon]

Yes, so?

[marish01]

Define infinite nothing

[marish01]

What can be infinite nothing in space?

[TallAnon]

It's exactly that, there's no matter or antimatter in an endless void.

[marish01]

If it exists it is not nothing

[marish01]

Nothing can make a believer maintain their belief in God more than talking to atheists about this matter.

[TallAnon]

You just sound confused, but that's fine, you don't need to know or understand everything 😊

[marish01]

Be honest, do you think your claims are based on logic?

[TallAnon]

Yes. The basis of scientific theory are repeatable, deterministic observations and antimatter have passed numerous experiments. Why, do you have any proof to refute the evidence shown in the article I gave you as source?

[marish01]

Show that EVIDENCE.
LOL
EVIDENCE

[TallAnon]

Did you read the paper?
That's evidence, actual evidence.
There's literally 37 sources on it.
If that's not good enough, perhaps consider whether you just want to cry about it instead of learning.

[marish01]

How was that paper evidence to you?

[TallAnon]

Did you read it?

[marish01]

what physical object is (-) any number?

[marish01]

Boy negative numbers can't be expressed in space. Negative numbers are commonly used in describing below freezing point temperature, credit/due money, elevation above/below sea level, elevator level when it is below the ground level, as a penalty in quizzes/games, etc.

[TallAnon]

Google positron, I'm done here

[marish01]

Do you understand why negatuve numbers were created by humans?

[slatyb]

No one knows, no one will ever know. We don't have any evidence that "everything" was created. We certainly have no evidence for a personal God.

[marish01]

Not knowing it is the reason why claiming there is no God is ilogical.

[slatyb]

And very few people make such a claim. The usual atheist position is "No one has presented evidence for a God. Therefore I have no reason to believe there is a God. I don't know, but have no reason to believe. Further, there is no evidence for an afterlife, or that any religious practice has any effect on events."

[slatyb]

If someone says "I believe X and do Y although there is no evidence" I can't argue with that.

[marish01]

"No one has presented evidence for a God. Therefore I have no reason to believe there is a God"
That is the same reason why it is ilogical to claim there is no God.
How could science with its limited abilities be able to have evidence of the highest power.
If God exists, how can scientists prove he does? Lol

[slatyb]

I already said that I don't claim there is no God. There may be, but there's no evidence.

[marish01]

Ok. I wanted to know it.

[slatyb]

That position is agnosticism -- the existence of God is unknown and unknowable. Atheism is a practice -- living without religion.

[marish01]

Yes that is the real definition. Yet many people who claim God is a delusion call themselves atheists.
I remember one of my professirs saud he is an atheist. When we asked why he doesn't believe in God. He said atheist means not having a religion not the lack of belief in God.

[DaBiggestBird]

Well God invented existence so I’m not sure what answer you’re looking for.

[DaBiggestBird]

Also time does exist that’s why we can be forgiven, including Jesus’s death on the cross of course. That’s the main part but time has a role too

[jahaims]

You are assuming everything has a start when things can just be. The start of existence is a human concept. You have to remove the human experience from observation in order to get deeper answers.

[marish01]

I removed. Give me that deep answer

[kaucky1]

I first opened my eyes then appeared then before gave it a name on of those turned and looked up try not to count say a number let's start alphabet backwards they a couple math problems more appeared they giggled

[exitseven]

It is probably something pretty ordinary like peanut butter or SPAM.

[jack1924]

That’s beyond our capacity to know or to understand

[marish01]

And that only makes God's existence logical

[jack1924]

Nope, it’s exactly the opposite of what I said

[jack1924]

I said it’s beyond our comprehension and you are saying there are only one source to all that creation which is something called god, that’s ironic lol

[jack1924]

There is*

[marish01]

Tell me the second option.

[marish01]

It's beyond your comptrhension because there is the almighty being behind all this. Since you closed your mind to it you can't understand anything about the origin.

[Makeushiver]

@marish01 You have strayed from the path of what we can know. Your statements, whether they are true or false are based on faith which may pr may not be valid but up until then & including the comment you responded to, the argument was scientific in nature which is something that can be proven. I'm not saying it's superior to faith it's just another way of looking at things. You are basically asking for scientific proof for a question that cannot be answered by those means.

[marish01]

@Makeushiver no. My faith aside. I have thought about the existence of the universe very often. I have tried to understand genuinly the origin of the universe.

[marish01]

@Makeushiver I have done research to find the best atheist argument that would make sense but none of them did.

[jack1924]

@marish01 can you please tell me what kind of research you have done!!!
I can’t prove my point and you also can’t prove your point and that’s what I meant when I said that this is beyond our capability and comprehension lol

[marish01]

Multiverse, quantum, big bamg theory.

[Jennz6]

God was always here

[genericname85]

what makes you think that everything else wasn't always here as well?

[marish01]

@genericname85 is that science?

[genericname85]

what do you mean "is that science"? xD i asked you a question. i didn't make a scientific statement.

[marish01]

@genericname85 I want to understand according to you what is the science behind that claim

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 God didn’t tell me

[genericname85]

Behind what claim? I didn't claim anything. I'm asking you what makes you think that everything wasn't always there. I'm not saying that this is the case. I'm asking you how you know it's not the case.

[genericname85]

@jennz6 god tells you things?

[marish01]

@genericname85 what do you mean by everything?

[genericname85]

Everything we can observe.

[marish01]

@genericname85 so if everything we can observe has always existed then everything we observe have no. begining, it is infinite, immortal. But is it true?

[genericname85]

I don't know if it is true. I do not tend to just believe things. In comfortable with leaving it at "I don't know", cause that's intellectually more honest than filling my gaps in knowledge with a god.

[marish01]

@genericname85 that "I don't know" leaves a space for the possibility of God's existence.

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 God’s Word is in the Bible

[genericname85]

no it doesn't. because it leaves a spave for litterally everything. and i will not pick one of the infinite possibilities that may fit int hat gap completely at random. especially not a gap filler that has proven over and over not to fit in any gap it was previously stuffed into.

[genericname85]

@Jennz6 oh. how do you know the words in the bible are gods word and not the words you're reading at right this very moment?

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 I have faith in God and the Holy Spirt lives within me

[marish01]

@genericname85 "because it leaves a spave for litterally everything"

For example what could be infinite?

[genericname85]

"I have faith in God and the Holy Spirt lives within me" so can you please apply what you just said there to what i previously said and demonstrate how you use that to know that what i said isn't the word of god?

[Jennz6]

@marish01 yes you’re correct

[genericname85]

i think i already said about infinity that all i know about that is infinite is numbers in maths that don't exists in reality but only as concepts of the human mathmatical mind. so I don't know what could be infinite. i have seen the beginning and the end of many things but not the beginning of the universe so i can't say that there is one. i can't say it's infinite either. i'm not claiming that. i'm just reminding of the fact that we don't know that so making claims with that about a god is not honest and not correct.

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 ♾️

[genericname85]

@ Jennz6 i guess you don't wanna answer my question. fair enough.

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 I just started working. Maybe later

[marish01]

@genericname85 do you exclude the existence of God or do you admit you don't know if he exists or not?

[genericname85]

@Jennz6 hey, no ill will from my side. not forcing a conversation on you. not gonna hold it against you if you don't. have a good work day.

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 💃

[genericname85]

i do not exclude god, the reality we can all observe does by not offering a single thing that god created to be proof for gods existence. like if you wanna say god is a concept, an idea, a fiction that isn't part of the real world, i can't argue with that. fair enough. but if the claim is god exits and he created shit, then proof it. the default position in order to "know" litterally anything has to be "it's not a thing". the facts have to show you're right. you can't speak truth into existence by repeating something that's not true.

[marish01]

@genericname85 "so can you please apply what you just said there to what i previously said and demonstrate how you use that to know that what i said isn't the word of god?"

What did you say that could be the word of God?

[genericname85]

having theories and ideas are fine. but you can't ever confuse an idea with the reality. and untill an idea is proven to be part of reality, assuming that it is, is wrong from a perspective of "how knowledge works" xD

[genericname85]

i was making an absurd claim. the claim that my word are the words of god. and i did that because i couldn't see how what she said would proof my words aren't the words of god. so i asked this so she can show me and make me understand.

[genericname85]

because i know for a fact that my words are mine and not the words of anyone else, so it should be fairly easy to show these aren't the words of god but i can't see how that would work with what she said.

[marish01]

@genericname85 how do you expect me to prove God exists or he has always existed abd that he is the creator?
Science can't prove it. Science can't even answer what was the very first thing to have existed or if time and space are infinite let alone prove God's existence.

[marish01]

@genericname85 "i was making an absurd claim. the claim that my word are the words of god"
what was your point of making that absurd claim?

[genericname85]

i already told why i made this claim. cause i'm skeptical to her ability to actually use what she named as the method to know to show that it works. because i don't believe it does. you know i am an atheist but i'm not terrible at knowing what the bible says and i know religious logic. i'm pretty confident i can use religious logic to say my words are the word of god and there's no religious argument against that, cause religious logic isn't meant to deny god.

[marish01]

@genericname85
"can use religious logic to say my words are the word of god and there's no religious argument against that, cause religious logic isn't meant to deny god"
religious logic isn't meant to claim any sentence made is from. God.
What's your point?

[genericname85]

i mean ultimately i do expect someone who makes a claim to back up their claim. like i could tell you i'm holding a bag with a million bucks behind my back. why should you believe me? if it's true, i can show it right? if it's not true, i can't show it.

the thing is: science is not a good tool if what you're trying to show something to be true that is not actually true. cause science is the tool to actually make that very hard. that's why religion and science are like oil and water. they don't mix.

so in general the ultimate proof that something exists or is true i not possible. we do use a workaround tho. what we're doing to circumvent that issue is disproving the negative. that way you also at the same time minimize confirmation bias. so in the case of god, you actually would have go through the huge effort of disproving god , develop a method how you'd disproof it and fail at it. that's how we know that there must be something to the god claim. that's how we know anything. by trying to disprove it and failing because the facts of reality actually contradict our theory.

you have to do it that way, cause otherwise you wouldn't know. for example if i was trying to proof plants grow if you water them, you could always claim "but maybe there's one plant that won't grow if you water it, you just never saw it so what you're saying isn't always true". so that's why you have to disproof the negative and disproof the calim that "plants don't grow if you water them" by going to water them and showing that they grow. it's not easy. that's why nobody ever did it with god.

[genericname85]

well you disagree with Jennz6 then, cause she said the bible is the word of god and she sayd that's what she uses to determines whether something is the word of god or no. it wasn't my idea. it was hers.

[marish01]

@genericname85 "i mean ultimately i do expect someone who makes a claim to back up their claim"
People who believe in God are not obligated to prove God's existence. It is their personal relationship with God. And it's called belief. What they have experienced might not be sufficient for proving God's existence.
" like i could tell you i'm holding a bag with a million bucks behind my back. why should you believe me? if it's true, i can show it right? if it's not true, i can't show it."
That is not the same as the existence of Almighty God.
Like I said "Science can't even answer what was the very first thing to have existed or if time and space are infinite let alone prove God's existence"

How do you imagine proving God's existence?

[genericname85]

oh. if you wanna claim something exists and not be called a liar, then yes you are obliged to actually show the evidence that lead to your theory that a god exists. because as long as you're not doing that, i'm factually correct in saying that you're wrong.

you can't ask me how i imagine proving god's existence. if i knew, i'd do it. like how do you proof any fictional idea to be existen? how do you proof unicorns exist or santa clause? i'm not being sarcastic. how do you show that they exist? if you can't, you're by the laws of logic not allowed to assume they exist.

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 I just believe what I read in my Bible

[genericname85]

so it's conscious decision made in absence of reason?

[genericname85]

or rationality would be the better word i guess

[Jennz6]

@genericname85 I think you just want me to debate you? Sorry, but I don’t debate. I’m happy with my beliefs

[Jennz6]

What is your religion?

[Cheerfull009]

First thing was creation of Adam then Eve, then whole Universe, Almighty God created them

[purplepoppy]

Hydrogen atoms

[marish01]

Have they always existed?

[purplepoppy]

They are the simplest and thought to be the first element created

[marish01]

Created by what?

[marish01]

How can a created thing be the first thing?

[purplepoppy]

Protons and neurtons were released after the singularity exploded and these combined to form hydrogen. This was the first thing in out universe but where the singularity came from is a mystery, perhaps another universe or the previous one

[marish01]

So protons and neurtons were not the first thing to exist then.
What was the first thing then?
The first universe?
Was the first universe self created? Lol

[purplepoppy]

It's known simply as the singularity, a tiny speck that contained the entire universe within. It's impossible at present to know where it came from but logic points to a pre existing universe that collapsed

[marish01]

What created the pre existing universe?

[purplepoppy]

How am I supposed to know that? Perhaps universes create each other or Perhaps they die and contract. All measurements and observations point to the big bang being the source. There isn't a single piece of evidence it was god

[marish01]

I am asking what it was.
What created everything. Use your brains.

[marish01]

Universe create each other?
A created universe gets created?
If they create then they exist

[purplepoppy]

The laws of physics created everything. I have brains this is why I believe this stuff and not in religious nonsense. The fact I personally can't explain the physics does not prove it was god.

[marish01]

If you have brains then how could you claim the laws of physics created everything?
The laws of physics apply to only things that physically exist.

[marish01]

I am asking you again what created the very first thing?

[purplepoppy]

You tell me, what's your hypothesis

[marish01]

I am asking you.

[purplepoppy]

And I have answered based on all available scientific evidence to date.

[marish01]

That law of physics created everything? Lol
The laws of physics govern the behavior of physical objects.
So those objects must exist for the laws of physics to apply.

That universes create each other.
The created universe creates another universe and that universe creates the created universe? Should there be at least one uncreated universe that creates another universe?
What created the early universe then?

And whatever you claimed so far is not evidence.
Learn what evidence is then debate.

[AviatorTom]

@marish01 Who created god? Or did god always exist? Which you say is not possible.

[marish01]

@AviatorTom answer my original question. Or just like her you have nothing logical to say.
I am the asker. If you are that curious about God write a question in your own thread.

[purplepoppy]

It is not illogical to state we have insufficient data to form a pre big bang theory. It I'd however illogical to be rude to people who have taken the time to answer your questions.

[AviatorTom]

@marish01 Feel free to check out this post...
If god created everything, who created god? ↗

[marish01]

I explained why your claims and explanations were illogical and probably you realized that too since you dodged the argument and act offended.

How is it not illogical to say universes create one another?
How is it not illogical to claim the laws of physics exist before anything?
How do you call it EVIDENCE?
Do you not know what evidence is?

I guess after I ppinted it out you realized you made no sense when you called that EVIDENCE.
Now you ADMITTED "have insufficient data to form a pre big bang theory"
Yes "having insfficient data and having evidence are 2 DIFFERENT things.

I explained why your claims were illogical.

And it is not illogical to expose your lack of logic regarding this topic.

[marish01]

@AviatorTom I will but only after I hear one less illogical claim about the existence of the very first thing. Go ahead. I'm waiting...

[AviatorTom]

@marish01 You mention EVIDENCE, even capitalized the word. Catholic priests acknowledge that God and the Creation story requires faith, a belief, and that there is no evidence to support that. If you require EVIDENCE of the Big Bang, shouldn't you also require EVIDENCE of God?

[marish01]

@AviatorTom before coming to this thread for helping that purple woman you should have carefully read my and her responses.
She wasn't talking about the big bang theory but the multiverse hypothesis and she called it EVIDENCE.
I capitalize again. EVIDENCE

Do your research and then come back.

Once again not the EVIDENCE OF THE BIG BANG THEORY
BUT THE EVIDENCE OF THE MULTIVERSE.
She said "I have answered based on all available scientific evidence to date."
She was talking about THE MULTIVERSE HYPOTHESIS
And when I exposed that flaw of her argument she gracefully changed her position and said "we have insufficient data to form a pre big bang theory"
Therefore it was illogical of her to call the multiverse hypothesis EVIDENCE.
If you think your beliefs are based on scientific evidence then you have to make claims based on scientific evidence.

[Jennz6]

If there was a Big Bang, GOD made it happen

[NathanDavis]

time... itself

[nawtee_me]

God was and is and always will be.

[KostasKouvalis]

Some microscopic single celled bacteria

[marish01]

Was it self created?

[KostasKouvalis]

Now that's where it gets complicated. It most likely formed from the spontaneous assembling of organic molecules. But many scientists also believe in the possibility of pan-spermia, that the first organisms came here from outer space on a meteor. But that only leads to the question of how THOSE organisms formed

[marish01]

Something created them?
Something that has always existed?

[KostasKouvalis]

I'm not a scientist. The only thing I don't like about the Big Bang theory is how can something be created from nothing. And what I don't like about the God theory is how is it possible for something to always be there. None of this makes any sense

Some scientists even theorize that the universe may have already gone through several deaths and rebirths. This theory kind of makes sense to me, but it still leads to the question of, how did the first universe form?

[marish01]

Exactly. Even if there was more than one universe how was the first one created?
If it was created then what created it. If something created it then the first universe was not the first thing but its creature was

[marish01]

So clearly something was always there

[KostasKouvalis]

So you believe it was a creature that created it? But how could that creature have always been there?

Maybe i just don't understand physics, but to me everything after the Big Bang makes sense, but it's what happened BEFORE it and what was there before it? Like how could an entire universe just form from a vaccum? And where did the vacuum come from?

Like with our current physical world it, these concepts make sense. But if you remove the physical world they no longer do.

[marish01]

Before the big bang is what confuses scientists lol.
Don't you think if God didn't exist it would not be such a mistery?

[marish01]

We can't escape from the idea of infinite being

[loveslongnails]

No one can answer that.

[marish01]

Read athrists' answers. Lol

[OtterMan68]

All matter was created at once.

[genericname85]

is there anything to show for evidence? or are you just saying it?

[OtterMan68]

@genericname85 when was the last time new matter was created?

[MrGSpotHer]

That's the big bang right?

[MrGSpotHer]

But at the beginning there was no time or anything then it just exploded out in a massive gush into everything

[Jamie05rhs]

God. Duh

[MasterKS]

Who cares? LOL!

[paledreams]

Outer space? 🌌