Women, "stay at home moms" are NOT acceptable today (Page 2)
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I do agree with you...
But from what I can tell it's still the American dream...
xD
It's easy to just have a job and it's easy to just take care of the house and kids, but doing all of it... not easy in the least.
Let's do this: you try working and then getting back home and cleaning the house, doing laundry, making dinner and doing the dishes before you vacuum the place and shower.
I say those things should be divided between the two partners - both work, one takes care of the vacuuming and the dishes, the other one does laundry and makes dinner. =)
Or however they make that deal.
Or be motivated enough and skilled enough to pay someone to do all that crap.
There's no reason for her to come home and feel overwhelmed. If she does, then she needs to smarten the fuck up, pay someone to do that crap, and better leverage her time into income. No excuses.
I wouldn't pay anyone to do the things grown people should be capable of doing...
That's a waste of money and a stranger you don't really know in your home. No thanks.
A retarded child is capable of doing most of those things.
That crap is minimum-wage level work. If someone is earning several hundred dollars per hour, they are wasting their time and also leaving money on the table by engaging in minimum-wage level tasks. It's criminally stupid. Pay someone who is worth minimum wage to do that work.
Obviously you've lived a sheltered life where nothing bad ever happened to you. I bet you've never been robbed either...
Sounds nice.
Anyways - hell no I'm not letting anyone in my home I don't know + I don't have the money to spend on some jackass vacuuming my house when I can do it myself, thank you.
You sound quite snobbish in your assumptions that everyone can a) get a job (no I don't live in the US, and even though I have a double masters degree it's difficult to get any job) and b) even if they have a job afford to pay someone to clean their house and take care of their children.
Go on mr rich spoiled kid... bother someone else.
I love all the assumptions of internet folk. All of them, psychics and seers.
I'd share some details of my past with you, but clearly it would be a waste of time.
Okay, so no, that shit is not easy, Keeping a whole house clean with a kid around? Stay at home moms cook dinner too. If that's the life a women wants, than she can get that. It doesn't mean she's lazy. Who says she doesn't go for walks or runs on her free time? She literally cleans the bedrooms, bathroom, living room, kitchen, floors, does the dishes, wipes down all the counter tops, takes care of pets (if you have any), cooks all the meals, takes care of the baby, teaches the baby, gets him/her ready for school everyday, makes the kids lunch (if they are young), goes shopping, etc..
What you did was barely being a stay home mom. Even babysitting for days straight wouldn't be hard because you aren't entitled to do the best for them and clean their house. You have you opinion and everything, and that's fine, but some women like the traditional lifestyle of being a stay at home mom.
Very accurately said. He really is clueless and his "experience" was not an accurate one.
All crap that hired help could take care of if she was actually making use of her self and got a job.
And let's say a family agrees to one parent working, the other at home. What happens if the sole provider loses their job (which is very common in today's work environment)? How responsible does that decision seem now?
Make use of herself? She does everything I said above, and maybe even more. And again, many moms exercise while their husband isn't home. You know, take care of their body?
Oh yeah, and about the "losing my job" thing. It's called saving your money in the bank? Something smart people do? So you know, you guys have enough to find a job. Especially with all your tough guy work experience XD. And you know, your wife that does literally everything besides work. She even cleans your stuff around the house.
Being a stay at home Mom isn't easy. Granted, I don't think it's the hardest job in the world (e. g. NAVY SEAL, brain surgeon) but to say they're being lazy is silly.
My boss is a woman and she owns the business with her husband's help. She does the sales and manages the company. Even though the business is run from their house, she still has little time for the kids and she still needs help so often asks her mother or mother in law to help out and even then, the house is often a mess.
She is definitely NOT lazy and still, she needs to take Friday's off and has to step out of the office to deal with family things. What I'm trying to say was that if the job of being a stay at home Mom was easy, she'd have no problems and could do it by herself but even she needs help.
Also, not everyone can be rich enough to afford daycare and not everyone may be comfortable with it.
If both of them want that then I think it's fine.
I think wanting to be a stay at home mom is really lazy to me personally. Back in the day it was a ton of work to be a single mom. Nowadays it's way way easier. Back then single moms had to tend to the garden, entertain the kids, make food from scratch, wash clothes by hand, hang dry them, mop the floor, dust everything, wash the plates and dry them by hand. Among any other things.
Nowadays women just sit the kid Infront of the TV, put the plates in the washer to clean and dry them, put the clothes in the washer and dryer to clean them , microwave something for the family to eat, have no garden for food, watch tv in all the free time they have where they aren't doing what stay at home moms did back in the day.
Once again, if both people want that then I think it's fine. I personally would never want a wife who was a stay at home mom for many years. I would think it's great for a couple years but when the kids old enough to be in kindergarten or so I believe there is no reason to continue to be a stay at home mom. The kid needs to get out and meet people and we can still have family time at home. The kid doesn't need the mom at home all of the time.
A compromise I disagree with, but can understand. Personally, I think that aside from the time period needed for biological recovery from child-birth, she should be back out in the workforce.
those are interesting points, I never thought of comparing the different times.
I am the eldest child and have a younger brother who has autism.
When my Mum was pregnant, she worked. She took maternity leave, had me, went back to work. Then she became pregnant with my brother 3 months later and at this point she couldn't handle affording day care for 2 children.
The best option was my Dad works and she stays at home; cheaper and more affordable option.
Of course this opinion of a man who probably has no experience with newborns/babies. Believe me, we are not sat on our asses all the time. We have a crying baby plus tons of chores to do inbetween. And then we are expected to make dinner for the husband when he comes home from work.
I can tell you don't have kids. How dare you insult my mother like that!
I am reporting this take as sexist. You would think as a 30-35 year old man you would be more understandable and especially since men get higher wages women have more difficulty making financial ends meet.
Next time you make a take do your research and get some perspective instead of being a sexist pig!
wow, bitter much?
But in essence I agree. I don't think it is good or necessary to be a 100% stay at home mom, unless you have like 3 kids and half a Zoo to take care of.
It is beneficial for everyone when the mom can work at least part time. it is good for her self esteem, good for home finances and it is good for the kids because they get to make friends in day care and are socialized sooner than kindergarten.
And after the kids reach a certain age I see even less need to stay home.
BUT you forgot about the fact that there are still many many old fashioned (usually religious) men and women who see this house wife life as the only right way to go. There are men out there who do NOT want their woman to work. Woman has to pop out babies and stay at home cooking for the stud... It's stupid, but it is true nevertheless.
Why are you so pissed off about it? Just marry a self-sufficient and independent woman and you will never have this problem. Easy fix.
"BUT you forgot about the fact that there are still many many old fashioned (usually religious) men and women who see this house wife life as the only right way to go. There are men out there who do NOT want their woman to work. Woman has to pop out babies and stay at home cooking for the stud... It's stupid, but it is true nevertheless."
Pathetic, isn't it? Both men and women--it's disgusting.
Yeah, easy fix for me. Doesn't make witnessing friends and family in bad situations feel any better.
Sure, it doesn't make it any easier. I have to bite my lip sometimes too, but in the end it is not my life and not my problem. Other peoples choices are their thing and they alone have to live with the consequences. And if a set up like that makes them happy, it's none of my business to tell them to change. No matter how pathetic I think it is.
"And if a set up like that makes them happy, it's none of my business to tell them to change. No matter how pathetic I think it is."
And there we disagree. Because when they become poor, guess what happens. They seek government assistance. And who pays for that?
It becomes EVERYONE'S problem. I have every right to criticize their choices (as do you).
I hope you never get married or have children. You have absolutely no idea how detrimental it is for children to spend that kind of time with their mothers at home during the early years and if a mother is lucky enough to have that, it is one of the best things for the family. I was thankful enough to have a husband who agreed it was best for me to stay home and raise our children and not have someone else raise them. Don't knock what you don't know and have no experience in.
im really torn on this
im still in college, but i do want a career, but as i grow i understand that kids need their mother even more than the father in early years and a job is not exactly an hour and then you go home... and my kids have to come first... but... my career, my education... i dont want them to go to waste :(
and i dont want my husband looking down on me because i dont work or feel like there is a gap or something between us since he is more exposed to different people and places and is gaining more experience and all that stuff...
ugh... I don't know what to do
my kids will be number 1 but i dont wanna waste all these years...
@Red7336 One of the very few things I agree with feminists on, in this case, is DO IT NOW. Have your child NOW.
Go through school part time while you raise your kid, and START your career after your kid starts school, so you won't have to take time off in the middle of your career.
If you actually had the balls to stand behind this pile of chit, I might be inclined to make some valid points. But when you post anonymously, it just shows you don't have the parts to defend your beliefs. This leaves me thinking one of two things. Either you are a child, with little life experience, trying to sound like a big man. Or you are a bitter, broken male who got shafted by an ex.
I hope you don't ever have children, becuase if you actually believe the tripe, you have no idea how important they really are. If a parent has the chance to raise their own children, they should jump at the opportunity, whether it's mom or dad.
I was raised by nannies my whole life while my parents were out working. I didn't get a good connection with my mother at all. My sister was born a few years ago and my mother quit her job to take care of her. She has grown up with an amazing relationship with her mother while my brother and I... Not so much. It's not your place to tell women they can't stay at home and take care of their children. You can't tell them going out and getting money is more important. Money is not as important as family love. And many women as well as men don't even have that great of an education due to their past financial issues etc etc are you going to tell them to go out and get 100$ an hour? Where is this easy to find job that gives out 100$ per hour? Did you know that divorce rates increase when both parents are working?
Clearly your mother did wrong by you by being a crackwhore or letting you grow up to be such an idiot. Whatever she didn't or didn't do, misogyny is mental illness. If you can't bring yourself to be a man and take care of your family, that's no reason to try to blame women due to your deficits.
This is ridiculous, if a woman with to stay at home with her kids she should be able to, provided that she and her husband agree on it and are financially stable enough. Maybe you haven't watched many kids but being a stay at home mom is a full time job and just as hard as working
And I'm paying my way through college by the way, so I have a good education and no debt from it.
"Lamenting how hard it is to take care of a house and kids is a clear marker of an incompetent and low-value person, so I don't want to hear that crap as a rebuttal."
She should get a job or start a business to earn enough not to have to devote unnecessary time to household duties--which are minimum-wage tasks. Seems to me, stay-at-home moms receive more than adequate compensation for the NOTHING they do all day.
As for you attending college, good for you, provided you don't then pull a bait and switch and leave a guy having to support you. I've witnessed that happen and it's contemptible.
Me and my boyfriend have already discussed it, and if we can afford it, we BOTH would like me to be able to stay home with our kids. I would however love it if I could work from home
Ugh. Sorry, I find that absolutely disgusting. How do you defend that kind of behavior?
Um that I will love my children and want what's best for them, and I also want to take care of my husband as well
So, it's best for your children and husband to be slothful and waste untold amounts of time at home, at the additional loss of more revenue streams?
Unbelievably selfish.
I have no intention of being "slothful" if I'm home with my kids I'll be taking care of them and teaching them and playing with them, as well as taking care of the house and cooking
I also stated I'd like to WORK from home, so I'd still make money
You sound like a very angry and sexually deprived boy. Your comment about not having an education means a woman isn't worth it proves you're the typical privileged frat boy type whose daddy probably traded in several stay at home gold diggers for newer models. You're the type of douche who thinks he has a high profile job therefore when you come home and your wife/gf doesn't automatically get on her knees and lick your ass you get angry. You sound pretty gay too, for the record.
Quite a few assumptions there, missy.
My mom and dad never separated. They are working class. We lived in a tiny house, and there were nights we didn't have food. I was never in a frat.
As for the "gay" comment... even if I was, why should that bother me? YOU sound like nothing more than a bigot.
Regarding my pay... yeah, I make more than most people, with the simple motivation of knowing what it is to go without. I don't identify my money as meaningful.
I DO however view it as a gauge of how hard and smart I have worked, unlike my parents. And unlike most people.
Know what disgusts me? A friend of my sister went to college, took out all kinds of debt, got married... then stopped looking for work. Her husband is in the military and has been deployed to hot zones. And she stays home, does nothing, and spends his money to remodel the house... and do nothing. Filthy, disgusting behavior. And she dares complain about that man "not doing enough."
Don't believe you for a second fratty... you're backstepping now stupid cuz I called you out. A few assumptions? You made too many yourself to judge so just kicking your rich privileged ass at your own game seems more than fair.
I don't care if you don't believe me, who the fuck are you that I should care? You are delusional.
Lololololol please get laid... by a WOMAN asap mmmkay?
Ok, so it's not for you, but have you ever thought that that's the kind of life other men and women want? I think it's completely fine to want to be a stay at home mom as long as you find a partner who wants that too. And there are plenty of men who want that.
Contrary to popular belief, taking care of a kid is actually a lot of work, so you don't get much free time to just lounge in front of the TV. Add that to all the house chores you have to get done (laundry, cleaning, cooking, doing the dishes etc) and you've basically got yourself a full time job (assuming the husband doesn't do much of the chores). So unless you want to be a bad parent and bad at the only thing you're supposed to do (staying at home taking care of everything) there's not much room for laziness.
Except all those tasks can be accomplished by a hired hand, freeing her to work for considerably more money and a better situation for her family. Plus, what if the husband loses his job, and his was the sole income? Then that family becomes a burden to many more people. Extreme irresponsibility.
Not everyone wants to spend a lot of money on a nanny. And not everyone actually wants a nanny to raise their kids either.
I know, it would be a very bad situation if the husband lost his job. This is also why I'm personally not looking for a traditional relationship. I want to make my own money and have my own career if we happen to divorce each other. However, if the husband is making so much money that he can support his entire family on his own, then I'm assuming his money would also give him some room to search for a new job for a while without his wallet completely burning up.
I got a question for you genius: If God agreed with you - why did he make it so that SOMEBODY needs to take care of the kids? Kids need to be taken care of and you think its better a stranger does it at a day care then a biological parent? Working is good if you make more than minimum wage and can hire somebody to take care of your children full time. If you make minimum wage - you might as well be a full time mother and let the husband take care of the kids since the day care will cost just as much as the amount you make at your job. My cousin wants to send her kids to a daycare that costs $5000 a month but she can make that kind of money. Not everybody has retired parents who can take care of the kids while the mother works.
"I got a question for you genius: If God..."
Stopped reading right there. Invoking God is NOT a way to ever make someone take you seriously in a disagreement.
Dude a stay at home mom is exactly what I want. I want her to be able to stay home and clean the house, spend time with our children, cook meals and even go out and enjoy herself. Whoever I end up with will probably have a job but when it's time to have kids I hope we are financially secure enough so she can leave it and focus on our family.
So you have no problem with a woman taking out thousands of dollars in student loans, then sticking you with the bill as she lives easy off your dollar?
Seriously, if you are ok feeding ticks, then let them bite.
@Take Owner Well like I said if we were financially secure enough I'd want to do it. Staying at home to raise children is not that easy in the early years, she would have to clean the house, wash clothes, feed kids, grocery shop, make doctors appointments, and cook dinner for the family when I would come home from work. It's a job in itself, but it's a lot easier to do when it's delegated to one person and the other person (myself) just focuses on their job at work.
Before I say this, please realize that I never want kids and I definitely never would be a stay at home, I also think it's good for children to see and experience their mom having a life and career outside of their children. To me it makes the children independent and confident that they can do things outside of having their mom with them the entire time.
But I don't agree that being a stay at home mom is lazy, before the age that children are able to go to school. Kids are a lot of work, i've watched my niece and nephew all day sometimes and i'm physically and mentally exhausted after watching children lol
I think it's sad that a partner wouldn't respect their partner for being a stay at home parent, how could you not respect your wife/husband for helping raise your child.
Also @Prettygurl12 response is just dumb, how can a grown woman be forced into anything, they need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves and their decisions.
I get where you are coming and from, and while I disagree with your time-frame for returning to work, in principle I think we're in agreement.
As for disrespecting a partner... quite the opposite. My demand that they be better and hold themselves to a high standard is the ultimate respect. And if they can't meet it, they don't deserve any.
I think the time frame until daycare an age for which daycare or even school would be comfortable for the parents is reached is fine for someone to be a stay at home parent, male or female and I wouldn't consider them lazy, children are stressful lol. It just comes across rude because babies don't have a set sleep schedule, if a mom is breast feeding, she could be up all times of the night with the child as well. I do agree it's lazy to just sit around the house all day while your children are in school though.
I don't understand why people don't get their lives together before having children, I personally don't want kids but if I had them I would want the best for them and that would be mean getting an education and a saving up from a good job first. I don't think it's fair to put the financial burden on one parent for too long.
Personally, I disagree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. A person, be they man, woman, or other, if they have an arrangement where the income of one of them can support both, then why should the second be forced to get a job?
In this day and age, it would be difficult to do, given the cost of living, butt if it does, what does it matter? If they are both happy, let them be.
Being too poor to afford a doctor for your dying child probably doesn't make a couple happy.
Both parents should be working. If they are both educated and capable, there is NO reason they shouldn't be an affluent family who can more than handle the cost of living.
You never put the stipulation of "The couple has a dying child" in your statement. I stand by my previous statement of if they have the means to live with only one partner working, they can.
If one of them has a job good enough to pay for medical services for their child, for example, the military (full medical coverage), then there is no reason for the other to work.
So long as it is a mutual choice to have a stay at home mom or dad, then that is the couple's choice. Not yours. And you shouldn't be shaming people who make that decision.
Here we go again:
Taking care of kids and larger households is not easy, in most cases.
If either the morther OR the father, based on opinion, stays at home the kids would be far happier.
Kids need love and education, not a cheap maid and more toys to compromise.
At school kids learn maths, English and geography, but also to swear, beat eachorther up and f*ck the living hell out of each orther at eleven years of age.
At home you can reteach them to be nice, honest and loving, all things I suspect the writer of this page to deny, isn't it, 30 years old feminist without boyfriend?
Even if this is not true, and I misinterpret the writing style, I can tell you from personal experience that someone needs to be at home for the children: not grandma neither the maid.
Think on...
That mentality (the take owner's) is why society has broken down so badly in the last few decades. Parents are no longer raising their children, but rather letting the state do it for them. Children are dumped off at the daycare like they are burdens.
My parents taught my sister and I to read, write, and talk from a very early age (under age 2). We were so far above all the other kids in kindergarten, it wasn't funny. Their parents just let the schools do it for them. We were advanced for our grade level because our parents actually gave a damn about our development.
@Anno_Domini reading at 2 years old? really?
@Anno_Domini
People have been attending boarding schools and being raised by nannies for a very long time, far before society "broke down" as you put it. I think you are very far off the mark of the causation of societal breakdown, (and the notion that society has "broken down" at all is frankly quite disputable).
Mum stays at home to take care of my sibling and I while Dad is usually the one who works outside of the house. However, mum works very hard and rarely has any free time to spare. Reality is very different from how you think it is. I find it perfectly acceptable for you to have your own opinion, but it is not appropriate, however, to tell others how you think that they should live their life. It isn't your place nor should it be your concern.
And what happens if your dad loses his job? His was the only income. What happens to your family?
So who's gonna take care of the kids? Having a stay at home mom will prevent unsupervised latched children who see the daycare more than their parents. Stay at home moms are ideal in my opinion especially if you want to instill strong family values.
"So who's gonna take care of the kids?"
Someone who will cost as much as she'd likely be making on the job market anyway (assuming she were "skilled" but not "degreed"), and not be the child's mom or dad the whole time.