#BringOurGirlsBack : Call it what you want, I just want equality

[WhatTheHellAmy]

Call it what you want, I just want equality.

This is like GAG's favorite topic. We all hear it everywhere: feminism and how it is bad or good. To be honest, I have mixed opinions and I'm not sure about being a feminist or not. I called myself a feminist for the first time 1 year ago. #BringOurGirlsBack was all over the Internet and I needed to know about it.

Well, what happened is that girls are not allowed to study in countries such as Nigeria. This broke my heart and I this movement called "feminism" started getting bigger and bigger. At that moment I was clueless, but the idea of women having same rights as men sounded totally good in my head, why not? Why girls shouldn't study? Feminism would be an amazing thing if they would truly fight for that kind of things. Real problems.

Some days ago someone on GAG told me I was clueless about the stuff feminism is doing. Let's say I know some stuff but I have other priories and I haven't read too much about the subject so yeah, I'm clueless. What this GAGer showed me was a terrible video about feminist women blaming men because the air conditioner was too cold for women. They were saying men were unfair for having such low temperatures knowing women can't tolerate cold as good as men. I couldn't believe that women were worrying about such a stupid subject, who cares about that crap? It's not important. In that moment I knew why so many men are against this.

Radicals feminists are going too far and are not doing anything for the real problems women face. I know many men want women to study and work too, I know some men respect women but I know they are not that tolerant when it comes to insult them for just having a penis. Radical feminists or how I like to call them, "feminazis", are making men look like rapists and make women look like heartless bitches.

Some time ago I saw something on Facebook about a man being raped by a woman... On the comment section I saw something that broke my heart: you go girl. I don't think ruining a guy's live is something to celebrate. The guy was raped. What would women say if a girl was raped and some dude would say "hell yeah dude, good job", the dude could go to jail XD but like a girl said it, there's no problem, that's not sexist because a woman said it.

All I want to say to say with this is that if feminism is truly about equally, count me in. I wanna be part of a better world. Part of a nonevent that truly benefits the human race. But if feminism is about females and its problems, forget it, men count to me too. And sorry for making you read this, all I want to say is that I'm an egalitarian who care about humans.

[redeyemindtricks]

So yeah, I remember this school assignment where we were asked to propose something to "promote equality between men and women".

My answer was to make girls start signing up for that Selective Service thing. Draft card. The thing that boys have to sign up for when they're 18.

The teacher actually gave me a failing grade. Me. A girl.

That, right there, was (a) the point where I pretty much stopped doing homework altogether, and (b) the point where I knew I wasn't going to go to school too far beyond high school. Because fuck that.

[Zombie-Killa]

Feminism is a problemin the US.
Why? Give a bunch of entitled, over-privileged and bored princesses everything they want and they will keep wanting more.
No idea what real victimhood is, but got it in their heads they are the biggest victims in the world :P

[XxLumierexX]

omg i agree...

[Zombie-Killa]

@XxLumierexX Thanks!

[Red_Arrow]

Interesting. I am glad that you are trying to look deeper at things such as feminism. But I believe that you have fallen victim to the rhetoric of the misogynists of the world.

I do not know anything about the video that you mentioned. It would be ridiculous for anyone to blame a group for the temperature of the ac being too extreme for a group... unless there was truth to it. If the men in the example were setting the temperature to annoy the women (and I have run into many men who would do exactly that), or if men were not being considerate of needs a group of users in general, such as men from out in the cold warehouse wearing heavy clothing comin into the break room and setting the temperature way too low for people wearing clothing based on the office temperature. But I have not seen the video, and realize also that it may be a twisted view of what actually happened (if it did at all).

So I realize no judgment can be made about a movement based on one video that may not be true, or may twist the actual facts, etc. Yet you said "In that moment I knew why so many men are against this." You let one video turn you against all the women in the world who actually are suffering from laws or mindsets that repress women.

I have seen a lot of things about a lot of movements over the years. And even though I was born after World War II, I still saw much of the kind of treatment that women were fighting back then. It was not hatred of men or trying to have it better. Not at all. Yet people like @bryon who are old enough to have seen much of the same treatment against women will say that they believe it was only ever about trashing men, which it certainly was not, and you say Amen to that.

Are there women in the world who want things better for them than for men? Given the differences that exist, it would be a sure thing that they do, and many of them are calling themselves feminists. But to label all women who are fighting to get themselves or other women out from under a system or mindset that tries to hold women down feminazis, or worse, is way beyond just being an injustice. It is actually joining those who are trying to destroy those who are fighting for what egalitarians claim they are for, but are focusing on the areas where women need extra help in the fight and therefor called feminists.

[FakeName123]

The very key issue with feminism has been for the last decades that it sounds great... in theory.

Thus it sucks in a whole ton of naive, well-meaning people supporting it - or at least not standing up to it. Everyone equal? Sounds great. Help oppressed women in Saudi-Arabia? Sounds pretty good, too.

Unfortunately underneath that there is a very ugly face called reality. The reality is that the ones at the top of the movement who control what policies feminism strives for are insane, corrupt, toxic and plain vile people and the entire "movement" much rather operates like a cult drawing said naive people in and abusing their support to achieve their vile goals as well as benefitting financially from it as well (i. e. Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn being invited to the UN talk - like what the fuck did these women achieve to warrant that aside from wallowing in victimhood and bitching?).

The well-meaning and well-intended feminists at the bottom are unfortunatley too naive to realise that they are a mere pawn supporting the upper ranks and their idiocy. In a manipulation book a while ago I read in german they called those the "useful idiots". People who keep on with your agenda by believing in it out of good intent, but essentially create harm with that.

Generally a good advice is to not trust what the majority nor the mainstream media says. These things are so big, because they have financial power behind it - and when there is financial power behind it, they will use it for their own advantages. Always question, no matter how good it sounds - or rather, question when it sounds too good to be true.
Like PETA. Sounds super ground, but in reality more than half the donations they get vanish in paying "advisors". You can actually look it up as they have a. pdf about their financial reports.

And here I give you some reads I really recommend you to look through.

A very simple rundown how those modern progressive cults - using SJWs as an example - work: www.bilderload.com/.../...au1rckw3lo11280NN6BK.jpg

To the wage-gap: Imagine women were really paid 20% less than men for the very same performance. Dont you think smart businessmen would hire them at an higher wage they got previously, but below that what men earn in order to make a very profitable business?
Also its better explained here why there is a gap: www.cbsnews.com/.../
And him already decades ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

[FakeName123]

Here family members of known 60s feminists saying something about them:
Daughter of Alice Walker: www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...olor-Purple-author.html
Sister of Kate Millett: www.frontpagemag.com/.../marxist-feminisms-ruined-lives-mallory-millett

How about all the contradictions? 40.media.tumblr.com/.../...7fdJcY1tvgy3mo1_500.png

A pedophilia researcher being outcast of the "sisterhood" for claiming that much pedohile abuse is permitted by women. Listen to 1:48 and how they try to shutdown anything that doesn't go along with their agenda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzC6OfPj82I

There is a lot more stuff which is just silenced, sweeped under the rug and ignored because it affects the agenda they are trying to push. Like the majority of male rapist having been heterosexually molested as a child (figure yourself what that means).

[FakeName123]

Though my personal favourite are quotes of actual 2nd wave feminists. You gotta listen to the insanity. Needless to say that the majority of those have a past of mental illnesses like drug abuse, suicide attempt, time spend in a mental hospital, having been with an abusive husband, etc.

"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." - Robin Morgan

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." - Andrea Dworkin

"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" - Susan Brownmiller

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." - Catherine MacKinnon

[FakeName123]

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." - Germaine Greer

"Patriarchy requires violence or the subliminal threat of violence in order to maintain itself… The most dangerous situation for a woman is not an unknown man in the street, or even the enemy in wartime, but a husband or lover in the isolation of their home." - Gloria Steinem

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it." - Barbara Jordan

[FakeName123]

"Men’s sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can ‘reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.’ Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women’s own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, ‘even if she does not feel forced.’" - Judith Levine

Do I really need to go on about how mentally instable these folks are? And no, neither am I pro the opposite side like MRA, MGTOW, etc. I disagree with those as well and they are barely a reactionary opposition rather than actively aiming for something better what they believe in.

[Azara]

having one air conditioner and many people will always pose a problem--what temperature,. bc no two people have the same desire for heat. how is that about feminism. it gets tiresome that everytime a womanizes something people dont like shyers a feminist and thats feminism,. maybe you just disagree with her and it has nothing to do with feminism.

if a guy was cold and the other was ht you just say they are having a disagreement.

feminism can't argue that women need less air conditioning bc there's no 'female ' body temperature. some women will be hotter than others some men will be colder.

if she's blaming air conditioning on men , she's not trying to solve a problem, unless its literally a case where all the men agreed on a temperature and they decided the temperature and refused to listen to women bc they are women--which does hap[p[en and i dont see how its 'stupid'., anytime in your life if you're shut up bc of your sex it won't be stupid- she's just being exploitative. as a human being. i dont see how thats a feminist.

i have my views about feminism, i dont call myself a feminist but there's no question when there's a choice between people using terms like fewinazi and people saying they want a say in the tenmpoeratiure of a room, i know who ill side with.

what do you mean you like using the word feminize?

if you saw a person you think is a feminize would you kill them? thats what people do with nazis bc their existence is a crime against humanity. there was an entire world war to rid the world of fascism. you dont have to like whatever you think feminism is or whoever you think is a feminist. but once you throw the word nazi around you're contributing to a whole other level of attack,. calling people nazis is not like 'blaming them for stuff'., its saying they are expendable. its a claim they should be gathered up and shot.

the problem with using being annoyed with an event as an excuse to form a -popular- view, is it will be riddled with prejudice and will never be whole.

calling yours;f an egalitarian is like saying you believe in the fairy god mother. its a nice idea but the reason there are movements is to 'get to a point of egalitarian society' were not actually there. its like going to build a house and saying thats too copmpliucvated and irritating sao you're just going to call yourself a house owner.. thats great. but you still have np house. no tools to build one. no education for using the tools --

[Azara]

... no education for using the tools bc you've decided its too irritating to think of and you want to think of a nice cozy house.. its delusional.

im not a feminist bc in not an ‘hist’ i dont ascribe to isms. but im also not a lot of other things as im sure you are not. people who talk about antifeminism are like rats in a cage. ok you are not a feminist, so now what. the world roles on there are crisis in every single family block tcity country continent in the world. being against feminism doesn’t change that and it certainly does not end sexism, or rape or sex based murder. for women-or men.

people use the word feminism like a boogy man. something bad will happen. i guarantee if feminism suddenly dropped off the face of the earth there would be no fewer problems,. just fewer solutions on how to solve them.

find me a group or outlook where out of thousands of people you agree with everything.

[Azara]

but you dont switch families. find a person on a video being obnoxious can't actually make or break a persons world view IF they seriously had one.

im not singling you out., i see this tendency for people to just see something they dont like and bam they've got a world view. its not realistic. its basically superstition.

calling people you dont like nazis is not a world view intros an enmity world view. nazism was a threat to the world. you can't go around crying nazi and do nothing about it and expect people to take you seriously. and obviously you can't justify harming someone bc they dont want to be cold.

by the way extra cold air conditioning is one of the invisible (torture that causes extreme physical and psychological pain but leaves no mark) methods used. attacking a person for being a nazi bc they want to regulate their body temperature... thats all kinds of messed up.

[heavensgift2girls]

I don't know much about Nigeria but in some other countries without feminism, most of the women don't actually want feminism there. You see in those countries it is the legal responsibilities of men to take care of the women. It is like a form of welfare that the women enjoy and don't want to give up. The rights the men have are directly related to the job they are required to fulfill as providers.

If it is a man's legal responsibility to support women and children and can't find a job because women are in the work force competing with the men, then he may get into legal trouble. As a result the women's rights often have to be restricted so men have a chance to fulfill their responsibilities.

Then enters feminism and twists the truth to make it sound like the women are basically slaves of the men. This creates trust issues and anger towards men. So you see it is actually a more complex issue than what feminists like to pretend that it is. Feminism purposely ignores that a lot of the issues gender inequality issues are because there are unfair laws against men.

In order to be a movement for equality they have to look at how the laws effect both genders in order to make sure things are fair and reasonable. Because feminism is only an advocacy movement for women, they can not be a true movement for equality. I am also an egalitarian and believe you can't end gender issues, by only focusing on the problems of one gender.

[RationalMale]

I say it was idiocy.

For one. A bunch of girls kidnapped by a milita/terrorist group/whatever.

What the fuck is a tweet going to do? How are you actually contributing anything? How is Michelle Obama making a pouty face and holding a sign going to do something? Think the terrorists will go, "Shit, twitter is against us. Time to kill ourselves."

Second. Who are these pussies talking to, really? Answer: these are "feminists" pouting that MEN will go rescue "our girls" who are in fact, not "our girls." If the president of their country said "our girls" he might have a point. But said hostages had zero connection to the USA.

Third. Who are you, or Michelle Obama, to try to say that American, Candian, or European, or Russian men should go risk their lives to rescue Nigerians or wherever the fuck that was? If you want to do something, why don't you actually go act, instead of falling back on whining and simultaneously pretending to "do something" while leaving all the actual risk and action to men, who then would be lambasted by said people if rescue efforts failed?

[Rawrzz]

The issue is how you define equality. The issue is also how you define "real problems." Feminism tends to create problems that don't exist or blow them out of proportion. Also within the feminist ideology is that women have been oppressed for hundreds of thousands of years. The thing is, if we do say that's true, then is there a better argument for female inferiority? Them being the only group who never rose up against their overlords? Feminism is a spit in the face to women and men. Particularly the tens of millions of men who died in WWII, or other millions who died doing hard labor jobs like laying railroad tracks. Their freedom wasn't free. And women got the same rights with little fight and none of the responsibility. No, I am not arguing to put women back in the kitchen. Simply stating what I believe happened.

Since you admit you are a bit ignorant about this thing, I think this woman is just the person you could consider listening to for a bit. This is a really good summary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsYwu8uD4I

[Jager66]

Excellent post! I would add to what you said about concerning oppression of women

"The thing is, if we do say that's true, then is there a better argument for female inferiority? Them being the only group who never rose up against their overlords?"

This also requires every man to be a sociopath who oppresses the people he forms his closest bonds with, his mother, sisters, wife, daughters etc.. This is dehumanizing of men, you know fathers, brothers, husbands, sons etc...

[GoodDogNigel]

o.aolcdn.com/.../...lr_n5dqojfzlh1qewacoo1_500.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mYCu0bs.gif

twitchy.com/.../bring-back-our-balls.png

i0.kym-cdn.com/.../d44.png

[WhatTheHellAmy]

Hahahhahahahahaha XD

[Jager66]

I think a better position is not to subscribe to a label because that will become part of your identity and it will be very hard to change or see the flaws in your thinking or beliefs, you will become rigid and narrow minded. It will also put you in a box, people will judge you by the label and their perception of that label instead of the arguments or opinions you hold and why you hold them.

If a label helps you for reason then perhaps a mantra like Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric for example would be a better place to start. This kind of approach also makes it easier to consume ideas that you don't agree with because they are non threatening to you.

Anyway really good take!

[WhatTheHellAmy]

Very true!

and thanks!

[bryon]

I don't think the feminine movement as a whole was ever about equality as much as a voice to trash men. I am with you on this , if it were about genuine equality issues then yes they would be a good thing to have around ; but those who run the organization aren't concerned with the importiant issues as much as their own personal agendas , just like government

[WhatTheHellAmy]

Amen to that.

[Watermelonoma]

" Well, what happened is that girls are not allowed to study in countries such as Nigeria. "

i have a lot of nigerian friends, and never have they told me that women couldn't go to school in Nigeria. The only part of Nigeria where this is a problem is in the Northern section of Nigeria where Boko Haram runs wild. They are anti education, and the population there is generally fairly ignorant so they dont let their kids go to school, but the nigeria government gives them special treatment in order to encourage them to go to school in the mainland, such as lowering the grade expectations so that they can gain acceptance into Nigerian universities and such. But its inaccurate to say that women can't get an education there in general.

[Lightspeed-Lemon]

You said it. Modern feminism is about gaining more privileges for affluent, white, Western women. So it's concerned with things like the glass ceiling and the supposed wage gap while ignoring that there are places in the world where women can't even vote or drive cars. It's a movement for celebrities like Patricia Arquette and Emma Watson to tell us how they've been victimized, despite being among the richest, most powerful white women on Earth. Although feminists are supposedly for "equality", they never say a thing about females getting shorter prison sentences than men, being more favoured in custody battles, or outnumbering men in certain occupations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsYwu8uD4I

[Octavius]

I kind of just ignore domestic issues (when I say domestic I just mean my countries not actual domestic abuse in a family) and focus on worldwide issues. I really don't call myself anything but I still think Malala Yousafzai is a role model everyone should look up to. She is fighting for womens education in Pakistan which is in a similar circumstance as Nigeria. She willingly took a bullet to the face to save a bus full of people from being executed when they were trying to weed her out. I think in the western world most people are afraid to let the other gender talk because then they feel their issues will get drowned out (sadly sometimes this actually does happen as the other side will purposefully try to snuff the other side for no actual gain of their own other than to see the other side suffer) so in the end nothing gets accomplished. But yeah I like to support and donate to charities that are helping people in countries that are 1000x worse off than mine.

[angelling]

The #BringBackOurGirls tag wasn't about girls not being able to study. The tag was about a man called Boko Haram who lured 100s of young girls to a school at midnight, they thought they were going to be taking their exams, and then he kidnapped them all. The hashtag and petitions were started to encourage first world countries to get involved and help to stop Boko and bring the girls home, hence the tag says Bring Back Our Girls. Some girls managed to escape and quite a few were saved but there are still many that are missing.

[Anonymous]

Amy, thank you for being an egalitarian and for caring about men too. Thank you for writing this. Thank you for listening when men express why they can't tolerate feminism any longer. The vast majority of us want equality just like you do, we just don't want to be called rapists, pigs and misogynists by the women who say they want equality but really don't. Thank you for actually trying to see our perspective. Most women who call themselves feminists are simply blind to what feminism does to men and boys. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Numbers or other abstract notions can be equal, in real life nothing is ever equal. For things to be equal they must be identical in every way. Things not being the same in every way what constitutes the direction of equality is no more than opinion. When you say you are working towards equality you are objectively just working towards what you want.
That's fine, everyone has a right to do that but if you're interests conflict with someone else don't go calling them oppressors for wanting their idea of justice just as you want yours.

[Stephen10]

I've said this so many times, if you believe in equality then you're an equalist, not a feminist. The hidden agenda of feminism is to destroy the family. Did you know that feminism was funded by the Rockefeller family for the main purpose of breaking up families and dividing men and women? Nick Rockefeller admitted to it. Look up "Feminism and the Rockefellers" and research it for yourself. Feminism has done nothing to create peace and harmony between men and women. It's done the opposite. If you truly believe in equality then you're an equalist, not a feminist.

[Anonymous]

... you need to do more research on feminism. Look at the history of feminism. You would not be able to do the things you do today as a woman if it was not for feminism. Granted third wave feminist are insane, they just like to Bitch. Feminism add pretty much made the gay community what it is today, there would not be such acceptance of gays and bisexuals without feminism. now, second wave feminist do not support tranagenders for numerical reasons, they still did so much for gays. I think to call yourself a feminist for the history of feminism isn't a bad idea, new feminist are just crazies.

[ThisDudeHere]

This is the first take about feminism this year that I actually read from start to go. Well done. But:

"All I want to say to say with this is that if feminism is truly about equally..."

You could have been more speciffic and said that "some" feminists are about equality. Mostly the ones who are more quiet and reserved and thus don't get as much attention as the louder bitches who bash men for spreading their legs wide on public transport or something.

[Soyeah999]

It is kind of annoying when they do that... But equally annoying if it was a woman doing it so I don't know why everyone made it a feminism issue...

[ThisDudeHere]

@Soyeah999 they made it an issue for the sake of making an issue. Simple, really.

[Phoenix98]

Sorry but true equity can never and will never exist it's simply impossible, the only way it could possibly be achieved is to cross the moral line and go against the laws of nature itself, which would create not equal humans but abominations of science. In a ideal and unrealistic world it would be possible but that's not the world we live in.

There will always be a lack of equality it doesn't matter how much "equality" you give them, people will never be satisfied, they'll always want more.

[YummyLady]

Jedi govna

[Phoenix98]

@YummyLady Lol thanks I think.

[GirlsLie]

Very well said, I agree with you. You just have to realize that some people on the internet just like to argue and a lot of them have an unnecessary chip on their shoulder. I can't figure out why it's so difficult to look past labels and ask someone what they individually think about each topic.