You Have No Right to Call Yourself Pro-Life If...

[Waffles731]

There are people who can actually call themselves pro-life; however, most people who are pro life in the United States have no right to call themselves that.

First off, any member of the religious right has no right to call themselves pro-life or even call themselves a good Christian.

When most of the religious right DOES act just like that. Here's the thing, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT. There is a sentence in the onion that illustrates what religion is SUPPOSED to be about and the difference between how it can be practiced.

"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"

"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm fucking serious!"

https://www.theonion.com/article/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule-222

The religious right doesn't hold itself to a higher standard of behavior. They are completely fine being selfish and greedy so they don't have to pay more in taxes so that everyone gets access to healthcare. The religious right doesn't support raising taxes so food stamps will insure that people won't go hungry; in fact many of you support eliminating them, saying that they lock people in a cycle of dependence. Which is utter and complete bullshit. That means that they don't have to worry if they are going to be fed. That in turn increases their ability to be able to find a better job and educate themselves. It means THEIR CHILDREN WON'T FREAKING GO HUNGRY.

Now some people call themselves pro-life and oppose universal healthcare. So you make all this fuss about wanting the mom-to-be not to get an abortion. Then the health of the child is completely irrelevant when its born. Does that make any sense? You can't support a party whose entire health platform is 'fuck poor people' and call yourself pro-life.

To sum up.

[vishna]

Agree. The popular sentiment by aggressive pro-life Christians in the South that I know is "Abortion is bad, it's murder. But my tax money shouldn't go to assistance programs that feed hungry children." There's no regard for the child after it's born, after that it's just another needy poor mouth asking for handouts.
Which is ridiculously heartless and backwards.

[vishna]

thanks for mho

[Anonymous]

"I'm pro life"... votes for Trump (world war 3)

[Anonymous]

A former abortionist who turned against killing unborn children has just released a series of videos on YouTube explaining the truth behind abortion. Dr. Anthony Levantino uses the animated series to illustrate the procedures that claim some 3,000 lives a day in abortion clinics like the one he used to work in. That number represents far more deaths than those caused by gun violence, an issue liberals are obsessed with. An incredible 83 times more unborn humans are killed by abortion each year than all deaths by gun violence. Remove gang-related gun violence from the equation and there is a 0.0008% chance of dying at the hands of a gunman on a shooting rampage. However, a preborn baby has a 20% or 1 in 5 shot at being killed using one of the methods we will be discussing.
Dr. Levantino describes the gut-wrenching experience he had which made him change his mind on abortion. He was performing a 2nd trimester abortion when he became physically ill while doing the procedure. However, he could not stop until the procedure was complete.
"I looked, I literally looked at that pile of baby parts on the table, and I didn’t see all the things that had sustained me all those years. I didn’t see what a wonderful doctor I was helping her with her problem. I didn’t see her wonderful right to choose, and I didn’t even see the $800 cash I just made in 15 minutes. All I could see was somebody’s son or daughter.
Suddenly, this was looking really different to me. For the first time in my life it hit me very powerfully, that this woman had come to me figuratively and said…here’s $800, kill my baby. And I was the type of person who would look right back at her very calmly, and say why sure, I’ll do that.
When you finally figure out…that killing a baby that big for money is wrong, it doesn’t take you too long to figure out it doesn’t matter if the baby is this big, or this big, or even this big, it’s all the same."
Just as an illustration of the cognitive dissonance feminists have on this issue, you can be imprisoned for up to two years or fined up to $250,000 for disturbing a Bald Eagle’s egg, but sucking a live, fertilized human egg out of the womb through a suction catheter is perfectly fine. Apparently, a bird’s life is more valuable than another human being’s using this logic.

[Opinion Owner]

A common argument used by feminists who respond to Dr. Levantino’s video series is deconstructed by YouTube commenter Marquis Read. Read strikes down the solipsistic “It’s my body and I’ll do whatever I want!” argument posted as a response to Dr. Levantino’s videos here:
"You see a baby get torn to pieces and you still think it is about the woman? That is selfish, and wicked."
"The little human is YOUR body? It’s living in your body, that’s all."
Being a firm believer in personal freedom, I generally do not like for government to tell people what they should do with their lives. I believe in a free society with a minimum of rules and regulations as originally intended by the founders of our once-great but failing republic. However, after seeing these procedures, I can never look at abortion the same way again. I do not see how anyone can see the reality of abortion and say it’s not murder. It’s obvious that life begins at conception.

[Opinion Owner]

It seems as more and more people learn about the grim and gruesome realities of abortion, the tide is turning in favor of life according to this Gallup series of polls. I will leave it to you…should this be outlawed or should people be honestly and openly educated on the grim realities of abortion then left to make their own choices? To me, if we do not protect the weakest and most helpless among us, we have failed as a civilized society.

[SovereignessofVamps]

Then what do you think about Plan B? I'm sure it kills plenty.

[Opinion Owner]

@SovereignessofVamps my abortion link got at two months got deleted because it was too real.

[Phoenix98]

cf.girlsaskguys.com/.../...f-b745-39e93fd740ef.jpg

So you mean like the hundreds if not thousands of missionaries we send all over the world that help the sick, feed the poor, educate the ignorant and give internet, clean running water and electricity to orphans, 3rd world people and war victims? And actually in some cases give their lives to help protect people like this one missionary who actually fought African warlords and militias in order to save child soldiers. All of these people are US citizens and Christians.

And I personally have fed the poor and have fed the sick among other things.

Also being Pro-Life goes far beyond being religious being Pro-Life just means putting the life of a child first instead of seeing it as a thing a inconvenience to be murdered and tossed away or sold for parts because it just wasn't right for you. Or to escape the consequences of having unprotected sex.

I dare you watch a abortion video of the entire process at all trimesters including part birth abortion see what they do, look as they cut of the child like a car for spare part. And see if you have the same opinion afterwards and if you do your one sick person.

Also FYI the fetuses can actually feel pain and have senses at as early as 3 to 5 weeks if I remember right.

100% Pro-Life regardless of what you or anyone else says and you have no right to tell me that I have no right to say I am Pro-Life or call myself a Christian or a good Christian.

So please go shove your opinion were the sun don't shine.

[vishna]

Can you link a study done regarding embryo (not fetus) pain at 3-5 weeks after implantation (or conception?)

[Anonymous]

Standing ovation right here for this one. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. YES, there are a few pro-lifers who do care about the plight of the poor and social care programs, but let's make one thing clear... the people you see out there with the protest signs barking the loudest, are the ones that usually only do as noted... they care all the way up until the baby is born, and then it's a giant screw you to them for whatever else the child may need or the parent may need to support them.

I do not understand that logic, and never have. You want potential parents to have kids that they cannot support and that pro-lifers will do nothing to help support... how does that help that child... because unless I'm missing something... looking around through the thousands of catalogs and catalogs of children waiting to be adopted, pro-lifers aren't exactly snatching up adoptable children at record pace.

This isn't a cake and eat it too situation. This is a opening up the gates and throwing away the key, situation.

[Vertical807]

"There are people who can actually call themselves pro-life however, most people who are pro life in the United States have no right to call themselves that."
Its called freedom of speech, get over it. 1st Amendment.

"When most of the Religious right DOES act just like that."
Are we making broad generalizations again? There are plenty of non-religious pro-lifers. Including Atheists and Feminists.

"They are completely fine being selfish and greedy so they don't have to pay more in taxes so that everyone gets access to healthcare."

No they're not, they're tired of $150+ million in taxes going to foreign countries that want to kill us and not actually helping Americans. They're tired of getting fined for a healthcare system that was "supposed to" cover them and all its brought about is 25% higher premiums.

"The religious right doesn't support raising taxes so food stamps will insure that people won't go hungry, in fact many of you support eliminating them saying that they lock people in a cycle of dependence."

Proof of this? Maybe because people are tired of abusing the system and preventing people WHO ACTUALLY NEED IT from getting them? Taxation is by definition is THEFT. This isn't only a "religious right" value, many Libertarians follow this as well.

"So you make all this fuss about wanting the mom-to-be not to get an abortion. Then the health of the Child is completely irrelevant when its born."

This argument doesn't work either, and maybe if it wasn't $10, 000 to adopt a child you think more people would adopt?

"You can't support a party whose entire health platform is 'fuck poor people' and call yourself pro-life."
Who said that one person speaks for the whole party? Nice attempt at a ad-hominem attack.

[Waffles731]

Taxation is theft huh,
You do realize that the right to levy taxes is granted in the constitution

[Vertical807]

Yea, have you actually ever read the Constitution? Its complete and utter shit.

[Waffles731]

Well its the basis for our country,
You don't like it, get the fuck out

[Vertical807]

"Well its the basis for our country,
You don't like it, get the fuck out"

Straw man much? You mean the 6+ times it had to be changed just to allow things like women and Blacks to vote? Not to mention the fact that it forces young men into a mandatory draft? Psst.

[JenSCDC]

"Taxation is by definition is THEFT". Let's see... is taxation legal? Yes. Are taxes spent on things beneficial to taxpayers? Yes. (This questions makes me think of the "What have the Romans ever done for us?" scene in "The Life of Brian".) So just how is something that is legal and beneficial theft?

[Idonthaveausername]

I am pro-responsibility-for-your-own-actions. This includes, but is not limited to: using birth control when you can't afford children, not having sex if you can't afford birth control, not drinking and driving, not abusing or killing defenseless children (including the unborn), properly feeding and raising your own children, giving them up for adoption if you know you can't provide for them, not smoking crack (or the general use of illicit drugs) in front of, around, or if you have children, not feeding your kids so much that they become morbidly obese at the age of ten, telling them you love them, actually loving them, and being an otherwise decent human being.

It's not my fault you got pregnant. It's not my fault you don't want children. I don't want children. But if I saw you beating a child on the side of the road I'd call the cops on you. There's no difference between killing a ten year old, a one year old, and an unborn child. If you end the life of someone, you have ended the life of someone.

If you can be arrested for killing a day old baby, you should be arrested for killing a baby the day before it is born. (And they can save babies at 28 weeks).

[Waffles731]

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...b15aab0cf0.jpg

[Idonthaveausername]

Yes I believe that. This is an extremely cruel world that we live in, and people don't take that seriously. I went hungry a lot as a child and there was nobody there to help me. Do you know what that did? That made me ensure that I'd work hard enough to be able to afford a roof over my head and put something in my stomach every night before I go to bed. If I ever had a child, you'd be damned to think I'd ever let it go hungry because I wouldn't want it to grow up like I did.

[Waffles731]

Your a terrible human being

[Idonthaveausername]

My terrible human being what? If you're going to insult me, at least be grammatically correct in doing so. It's incredibly hypocritical to call someone a terrible human being when you're the one defending people for killing innocents.

You're immature, and your lack of explanation for name-calling proves it.

As far as your insult is concerned, even in the context of this thread, I'm not terrible. I know girls who have aborted their unborn children and they have only become more depressed and have more social anxiety around children than before. They think I have a stable moral judgement, and would never call me terrible for it. I care about their opinions more than yours since we are unaffiliated in real life.

The real terrible people in the world are the people like you who spew this nonsense about someone else's philosophy on life and social welfare, but refuse to bat an eyelash when a real-life, suffering child asks you for help.

Downvote my post, but refrain from badgery.

[Waffles731]

", but refuse to bat an eyelash when a real-life, suffering child asks you for help. "
Where on earth did that happen.
No, you are a terrible person.
The whole, 'I am pro respnsiblilty for your own actions'
Yeam only a child didn't ask to be born, so social welfare has NOTHING to do with the parent,
Only the child.
And yeah, you are a terrible person

[Idonthaveausername]

That happened to me multiple times as a child. I once spent an entire day screaming and crying for help and people complained to the office that I was a spoiled brat rather than wondering if I was OK. I might have a jaded view of the world, but the world is the reason why I have a jaded view of it. If you want to call a stranger a terrible person, then go ahead, but you might want to think about the impact you give them and the impression you give off as a person.

I didn't ask to be born either. I often wished I hadn't been growing up. My mother was on welfare and she still neglected to feed me. She took her extra money from it and bought clothes for herself. I have experienced firsthand that social welfare doesn't benefit children, and is only taken advantage of.

Like I said, I would do everything I could to provide for a child in order to make sure it wouldn't have to go through what I had to.

[SirenDep]

I agree that being a hypocrite isn't the way to go. Of course we have to not only support women giving birth, but also support them as a society to raise their kid, not ignore or shun them. And not only be against death penalty, but also improve conditions in prisons, make them a prace where people can regret what they did, get educated and become integrated in society. In America maybe taxes are important for society to function, but in Greece they are the reason people don't have money, they are draining us.

[jacquesvol]

I love this take!
BUT Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi Children was "worth it" and wins Medal of Freedom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE

U. S. Policy Prevents Women Who Are Raped By ISIS From Accessing Abortion: kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/.../?_r=0

[jacquesvol]

Starving kids is OK for these people. Bombing them is OK too. Dropping bombs with grenades looking like toys for kids to maim kids is OK too for them.

christeredman.files.wordpress.com/.../...child.jpg

but aborting a lump of cells isn't allowed. those cells are life, they say.

[rjroy3]

Couple things.

1. The label "the religious right". Not all conservatives are religious and not all religious people are conservative. It's just common for religious people to be conservative on certain issues.

2. You can be pro life, without regard to whether or not that life lives the existence of a pampered prince. To equate not being for handing out things we can't really afford to hand out, to not REALLY being pro life is silly. Pro life means for the right to live.

You kind of just blended a cluster fuck of assumptions into a pile, without regard to the actual beliefs. But yes, a lot of religious people don't hold themselves to a higher standard as they should.

[Jackblue]

The poor in the modern day US have it far better than the poor did in Jesus' day. Republicans still believe in helping the poor in fact they are more likely to give to charity than democrats. They just do not believe that as much in the way of taxpayer funds should be used for welfare. Although, most conservatives today believe there should be some welfare. Your idea of killing people in order to prevent them from having a hard life is barbaric and similar to the attitude the Nazis had towards disabled people.

[Thisperson98]

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

I'm considered pro choice by most. It your logic is terribly flawed.

You can oppose universal healthcare (though I personally don't) while still feeling murder should be illegal.

Why? Because one demands citizens not harm each other. The other takes one citizens possessions at the threat of imprisonment and uses them to benefit another. Forced sharing is different from demanding we don't kill each other.

Basically everyone pro-life believes that at whatever point they want abortion banned, that life is a human being worthy of full legal protection.

That's it.

If you were against abortion but thought infanticide should be legal, that would be hypocritical.

[Unit1]

thecontributor.com/.../pro-life-logic.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vMC7t.jpg

img.memecdn.com/pro-life-logic_o_1055672.jpg

25.media.tumblr.com/...lmgd0lGiv31ql47yqo1_500.jpg

images.didioffendyou.com/1/36460554b01fe18fa1d.jpg

It's that simple.

[FakeName123]

You realise that the egg is pretty much comparable to the placenta and not to the fetus, right?

[Unit1]

@FakeName123 Yes!

[Library]

"Pro life" people have this thing called cognitive dissonance. Plenty of "pro-life" people also support the death penalty. Again, cognitive dissonance.

[castratedwhiteguy]

How wrong you are. Conservatives are actually saying that the abortion question is a states issue, that should be decided by each individual state, and not something that is Constitutionally the right of the Supreme Court to decide on a national level. Also, universal health care means shit health care for everyone. Why do you progressives still ignore the lessons of history and the laws of basic economics. By blindly supporting these causes you're only fucking yourselves and you're fucking everyone you claim to love so much. Stupid is as stupid does, I guess...

[FakeName123]

Nice strawmaning. Comparing things together that don't necessarily have to do with each other and making assumptions about people being against abortion that aren't necessarily true.

Being against abortion doesn't have anything to do with the view on healthcare nor with religiousness. Correlation =/= Causation

[mermaidrocketship]

I'm a Christian, and I agree with this. Pro life is supposed to be a worldview and how you see the value in everyone and want to help people flourish. A lot of people lose sight of that in wanting to make their own selves comfortable.

[bloodmountain1990]

Great take. Yeah that's the big hypocrisy of it. They're pro life until the kid is born and once the kid is born, they are on their own even if the parent can't afford to take care of them.

Abortion should never be a go to option for birth control but maybe if people were allowed more access to birth control, they wouldn't need abortions.

[JenSCDC]

... if you ignore everything that doctors and scientists say about when life begins.

[juliaanita]

agreed

[FakeName123]

It is not a scientific, but a philosophical question though. Sciene just sets the environment for said philosophical and ethical question. The question when a human is considered a human doesn't involve a clear cut "scientific" answer.

[JenSCDC]

@FakeName123 "It is not a scientific, but a philosophical question though." Agreed. But too many people seem to simply want to ignore the scientific data that can help us answer that question.

[SovereignessofVamps]

What do they say?

[betweenthebars]

It's better than being pro-death.. And I'm not saying abortion should be outlawed or that it's even morally wrong. Just that it's better to celebrate life and mourn death. That's not the current approach to abortion.

[lumos]

Do you really think that all girls who go through and abortion celebrate it? Hell no. It's a very painful and scary process and obviously 100% of the girls wish they wouldn't have to do it, that they didn't even get pregnant in the first place. Even if they're relieved to not be pregnant afterwards, it doesn't mean that the abortion itself didn't suck.

[betweenthebars]

@lumos no believe me I know that, I'm not talking about the women who have abortions. I'm talking about the politics surrounding abortion and the people who support it who have never had one, themselves.

I don't judge women who have had abortions. AT all.

[SovereignessofVamps]

I always thought it was odd to say you're pro life, but then fuck or use Plan B. Like Plan B kills a potential pregnancy and fertilized egg. And every time you fuck you risk pregnancy when you'e straight so...

[jacquesvol]

I always thought it was odd to say you're pro life, but then bomb a country.

[SovereignessofVamps]

@jacquesvol Yeah, or be pro life or like traditional and call innocent victims of war aka civilians 'collateral damage' Heard a military guy say that one on Youtube.

[BellePepper]

Plan B prevents pregnancy. If someone is already pregnant by the time they take Plan B, it's not going to work. https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/plan-b#1

[SovereignessofVamps]

@BellePepper yes, I've read that b4. But I meant it stops the natural process of the sperm *potentially* getting with the egg! It stops the fertilization, when it's supposed to have happened.

[BellePepper]

Fertilization doesn't happen right away. You can actually get pregnant up to 5-7 days after sex because the sperm doesn't usually work instantaneously. So Plan B won't work in the situations where the egg is already fertilized but if the egg isn't fertilized plan b can help stop it.

So if Plan B is preventing fertilization there's no potential pregnancy.

[SovereignessofVamps]

@BellePepper You don't know for sure when conception happened on the exact day, but I do know they say Plan B is really effective... and I have read b4 tht sperm only lives for 2 days, that's why they say to take Pla B within 3 days.

[BellePepper]

For a woman to become pregnant an egg has to be fertilized and it has to attach to the uterine wall. So until both those things happen there's no way to even be pregnant.

Plan b tries to prevent fertilization and adherence to the uterine wall. So it's only a preventative measure like condoms.

This article says 5 days but I've heard as long as 7 days. www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/sperm-and-semen-faq

[SovereignessofVamps]

@BellePepper Yes, it prevents something that would have occurred... so, it's semi like condoms, but not really. Condoms try to stop sperm from ever reaching the uterus... and yeah articles can vary, but still Plan B stops something that was supposed to have happened. The sperm already entered the uterus. BC also usually stops her from ovulating in the 1st place, so that's different from Plan B too.

[BellePepper]

But it's a preventative. If someone is already pregnant it' won't stop them from being pregnant. Like we both understand this yes?

[SovereignessofVamps]

@BellePepper yep that's true! I meant it stops the natural proceeds. Which BC and condoms do, but not while a fertilized egg is there, or at least condoms are supposed to make a barrier... know what I mean? The intent with Plan B is a bit different.

[Saoirse_Nua]

I agree with so much with what you say - I hope you have your missile defences in places - (Triggered) - (Incoming)

[Unit1]

Yeap. The shitstorm is inevitable. Such is our society.