Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

4Elements
Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

Ah, the Famous debate: Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice. I am strongly Pro-Choice for several reasons, the main one being that IT'S THE FEMALES' CHOICE.

A lot of the anti-abortion fanatics support life, and that's all fine and dandy but I've noticed these people fall into at least one of three categories: religious, naïve or male. It's noble that you should want to support life at all cost but at the end of the day? It doesn't affect you, it affects the woman and the parasite that is using her uterus as an extended stay vacation.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

The religious people are pretty much hypocrites on a lot of topics, but for the sake of this myTake I'll keep it relevant. The same people that believe premarital sex is okay are the same people who are vehemently pro-life. How do you break one law and uphold another? Either obey all, or none. A lot of Catholics/Christians pick and choose which rule they follow whenever it's convenient for them and it's just really grating.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

Naïve people are just that: naïve. They don't know what challenges and difficulties there are being pregnant. You're at your most vulnerable and helpless. A parasite is growing inside you, sapping your energy, food, vitamins, minerals, brainpower and on top of that making you gain weight and feel unattractive. It's not like a headache where you can just take some Advil and it'll go away, it's there for the better part of nearly a year. It's not all sunshine and daisies for a lot of women, or even just a slight case of morning sickness that the media portrays. It's the most dangerous thing a woman will do in her lifetime. If you wouldn't force someone to play with an AK-47 why force a women to give birth? Just because the death from childbirth rates have gone down doesn't mean the danger is nonexistent.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

And lastly, the men. The reason a lot of women are put into this situation in the first place. This is the section of pro-lifers I'm still struggling to comprehend. I can kinda see what twisted logic the other two come from but men will never, as far as current technology goes, ever be able to bear the brunt of pregnancy, labor and oftentimes child rearing. All they do is make a relatively quick deposit and that's it. It's all on the women now. Whether you stay by her or bail is anyone's guess. So men saying that a woman should just carry the parasite to term and adopt/raise him/her, possibly with no support, financial or otherwise is dense at best and heartness at worst. It's not your body that goes through the painful, awful and potentially irreversible changes of pregnancy (this goes for women too), so I honestly fail to see how you should have a say.

Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about the other section of hypocrites-- the abortion clinic protestors. Oh my gosh, where do I even begin? If every single one of them had to pledge to adopt the child or pay something akin the child support to prevent the "MURDER!" of the breeding parasite with no way of backing out, I'll bet that the amount of protestors that stay outside trying to convince women that they're making a mistake (ugh) would drop really quickly. In fact so many of these protestors have had abortions themselves and yet go back to calling the doctors and patients "MURDER!"ers.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

Um, what? Weren't you in their shoes like a week ago? Either these people are so delusional and they are projecting or they believe their abortion was "different" or "okay" or "I had to!". I guess you're an accomplice to "MURDER!" then. Pull your head out of your butt and see things from another point of view. The women entering that building have no choice, this abortion is their last option, just like you. Why would you deny a fellow woman that option, the same one you were given freely? "Oh you can just adopt!" Adoption is not an option for everyone. Sure the child might end up in a good home but it's usually a hit or miss.

We have an overcrowded and underfunded foster care system for a reason and a lot of kids stay there until they age out at 18. And what if the child you put up for adoption comes looking for his/her birth mom and/or dad 20 or 30 years later? "Oh I never wanted to have you but I was forced to so I gave you up for adoption and hoped you would never contact me. I don't want to remain in contact with you, sorry have a nice life." Pretty heartless right? The parent(s) gets an unwelcome reminder of his/her/their past while the child feels unwanted and excluded. Nobody wins.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

Many times keeping the child is no better. Imagine caring for a child you never wanted after being forced to carry him/her to term. Feeding it, bathing it, entertaining it and caring for it for years on end, often with no support. The father is not involved (due to rape, incest or simply disinterest). Your body has permanently changed, your career/education is forever postponed and all you get is a few hundred dollars a month for child support, if even that or at all. Your family helps every once in awhile but it still seems like it isn't enough. You can barely make ends meet and you quickly become one of the leeches of society you always mocked after applying for government aid.

When you eventually get back into the dating game your options are limited-- not a lot of men want to date a single mother and take on the responsibility of parenthood. And who could blame them? Others crash and burn, far too often for you to handle. This hate builds up and manifests itself in neglect and abuse of many kinds-- emotional, physical, mental, physiological-- the list goes on, onto your child. And the child turns to self harm, bullying and searching for the acceptance that you could never give. And that's often the best case scenario...we already know how the others turn out.

Sure pro-lifers, you may have saved a life, but is this what you or a loved one would want to go through? Is this a life worth living to you?

Many pro life people don't see the bigger picture in their beliefs. If no one 'murdered their babies'/s (aka, aborted) imagine how much harder it would be to get and keep jobs. How many more people would be "soaking up the system" or become a drain on society? Or how the government would spend millions more to give support to all the unwanted and unloved children that would exist. Employment rates would go up, more people would go hungry and starve to death. More people would live lower quality lives, more poor people, etc. Who really benefits, the mother? The child? Society? Or just you and your beliefs? Do you even care what happens to the child and mother after birth, or are you satisfied you can sleep easy at night while they struggle for years to come?

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture

Concluding, abortion should not be used as a form of birth control. It should be used as an absolute last resort. For the many women reading this who are on the fence on whether or not to abort, adopt or raise, which would you rather have in 10 years? Looking down and seeing a child you resent and wish was gone, fearing the day your biological child comes seeking you, asking why you gave him/her up, or wishing you had a 9 year old to read stories to at night? Either a month of pain now, or potentially decades of regret and resentment for the rest of your life. The choice is yours.

Pro-Life People Don't See The Bigger Picture
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Most Helpful Girl

  • Anonymous
    I believe that everyone who wants to have sex at an early age must be sterilized. If those people are sterilized, then the people who choose to wait at later ages to have sex will reproduce. This will dramatically affect the human gene pool, allowing humans to reproduce at later ages naturally. Unpopular? Absolutely. But if we did have a totalitarian government, then the totalitarian government will strip away our reproductive freedoms, allowing only the people-who-naturally-abstain-from-sex to have sex at the desired time.
    Is this still revelant?

Most Helpful Guy

  • RationalMale
    "It doesn't affect you, it affects the woman and the parasite that is using her uterus as an extended stay vacation."

    This so aptly describes pro abortion women. Women who would describe their own unborn children as parasites. They are probably doing the rest of the country a favor by making sure their offspring don't survive to adulthood.
    Is this still revelant?
    • The TakeOwner is quite disgusting in my opinion. I support abortion, but the way she talks about it is awful.
      I hope this kind of girl (can't call her a woman) never has kids, I'd be very sorry for them.

    • @AleDeEurope No fear of that, she'll make sure nothing survives her womb.

    • PT1911

      I almost puked reading it

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • hellionthesagereborn
    So where to begin, clearly you haven't thought any of this through a common occurence for the self absorbed. Lets start with the whole its her body her choice. Yes its her choice, she chose to have sex she chose to have sex without the many many different contraceptives that are available so claiming its her choice to abort is idioticlly stupid because it was her choice to get pregnant to begin with. She could have avoided it she chose not to thats just simple fact. As for support, if its a womans choice because it affects her and doesn't a man (despite the fact that its his child and he himself being born could have been aborted so it very much affects him) then a woman by the same reasoning has no right to demand child support since, its his money his choice. Of course no woman has ever argued for this fair and equal system. Further more by that same reasoning women should not be allowed to ever talk about say war since they cannot be drafted but men can, they cannot have an opinion on well anything that affects men but again this is not what we are seeing and not what your advocating. Basicly what your arguing is that you shouldn't have to take responsibility for your actions, that you should not be held accountable but every one else should. You talk about a guy who just has sex and then leaves, well why did you have sex with that kind of guy to begin with? You talk about her body her choice as if she didn't have it within her power to prevent pregnancy to begin with again dodging responsibility, you state that it doesn't affect him which it does thus showing a massive amount of narcassism not to mention misandry as is evident about your rant about how men are basicly shit. In short you want to be treated like an adult only when it suites you, but once it comes time to actually take responsibility for your actions suddenly you want to be treated like a child and have the man take all of the responsibilty for his and your actions. This isn't people waging a war on women, its not misogyny its people rightly believing that you should be held accountable for your actions.
    • If you want a free pass that must also apply to men otherwise your just being a self absorbed narcassistic child. I find it ironic that you talk about the negative consequences of the birth, talk about how all of these negative consequences will hurt the child/person born (that you are advocating killing) all while conviently ignoring why that situation occures to begin with i. e. a man AND a woman making a stupid choice to have unprotected sex. None of this would happen if proper precautions where taken. Its kind of like claiming that your the victim and that we need more police because you where assaulted while conviently ignoring the fact that your the one who started the fight.

    • The problem is you, not society not laws, you. You make a choice if one chooses to have sex without protection that is a choice with consequences and if you cannot handle the responsibility of that then you shouldn't be having sex to begin with, plain and simple. Act like an adult and the problem resolves itself, unfortunatley the so called "pro-choice" people want all the priviledges of adult hood but without any of the responsibilities.

    • Also by definition a parasite is something that survives off of a host to its benefit and the hosts detriment so no a unborn child is not a parasite since its not harming the mother and also the fact that it was created by the mother cannot really be held accountable for its mothers idiotic decisions not to mention the fact that since the singular purpose of life is to procreate its actually benefiting the mother by ensuring the surivival of her genes so again its not a parasite.

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  • dangerDoge
    Pro-lifer here. I'm not going to get butt-hurt about the random insults (that consequently make your argument less valid imo), but here is my counterargument. I'll try to put quotes to give an idea of what part I'm addressing:
    1.) "The same people that believe premarital sex is okay are the same people who are vehemently pro-life... A lot of Catholics/Christians pick and choose which rule they follow whenever it's convenient for them and it's just really grating."
    The flaw here with this argument is that premarital sex and abortion are two different beasts with sex. One can have sex without a baby, and likewise one should know the responsibilities of having sex and possible consequences associated. What religion someone is or how strong someone is has no relevance to this.

    2.) "Naïve people are just that: naïve. They don't know what challenges and difficulties there are being pregnant."
    One may not have experienced the experience, but it isn't like they are automatically stupid and have no idea of the burden. Again, the solution shouldn't be abortion. The solution should be taking responsibility of sex, knowing full well the consequences, and realizing the potential for safeguards to fail. Realize the possibility for contraceptives to fail, and realize that if you want to be sure of not getting pregnant, don't have sex. That's not being naïve, that's thinking ahead.

    3.) "All [men] do is make a relatively quick deposit and that's it. It's all on the women now."
    The issue here is two fold:
    A.) The span of things at stake is not only the potential of months. It's the person's entire life at stake. Abortion is permanent. A man has a responsibility as a parent like a woman. Men do not have to bear the brunt of pregnancy, but you make it sound like men have nothing to do with being a parent which is false. Even if the man left, there is still child support payments. If he stays, the mother and father take equal part in support
    B.) It takes two to tango. I'm sounding like a broken record, but again... The solution is not abortion, it's realizing/accepting consequences of sex. Both parties are at fault here and both have a part in the fault/say.

    4.) "Abortion clinic protestors." Most of this part you are just insulting abortion clinic protestors and creating accusations of them being hypocrites and such. This means nothing if you don't present factual data to back it up.

    (Continued...)
    • dangerDoge

      5.) I'll address the rest of the mytake here you essentially are stating the cons of a baby (i. e. Cost, time, dating potential, etc.)
      Oh hey, you make great points. Having a baby you don't want is a horrible thing. Guess that emphasizes the importance of thinking about sex before doing.
      I'll say it again: take responsibility for sex, understand the consequences, and if you don't want a baby, use birth control/condoms. Realize however you still have that 1% chance of failure. If you really don't want a baby, don't have sex. Understand the consequences of an action before committing the action. Don't jeopardize a life after the committing the action because you made a poor choice. Think ahead. That's what I advocate-- not abortion.

      Every action has a consequence.

    • dangerDoge

      On a side note, lemme give my overarching stance on abortion. I believe the only time it is acceptable to do is when the baby has a strong chance of killing the mother (as in childbirth complications).

      "But dangerDoge, the baby always has a chance of killing the mother."
      I mean abnormal complications... A significantly more than average chance of killing off the mother.

    • 4Elements

      At least you actually put some effort into your response instead of just saying abortion is murder or some such nonsense. Kudos to you from not being like the other pro-life; I can actually respect your POV.

      Here's for point 4: www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/.../anti-tales.shtml

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  • QuestionMan
    Abortion is something that needs to be looked at on a case by case basis with mandatory counselling to determine whether it is the right choice.

    I'd like to see pro-life charities and support groups become more vocal in convincing women to keep their child and giving them the necessary aid instead of just outright banning it.
    • 4Elements

      I'd like to see pro-life charities and support groups become more vocal in convincing women to keep their child and giving them the necessary aid instead of just outright banning it.

      A lot of times these charities lie to women who want an abortion until the legal time to have one has passed. Also, these charities should provide ongoing support for these women and the children they have for at least 18 years, since they value the fetus' life over the mother's life and choice.

    • I don't think up till the age of 18 should be mandated. I'd rather it be until the woman is capable of providing for herself and her child otherwise you create a huge drain on the system.

      I hate it when pro-choicers call it a choice. A fetus is not a kidney which you can choose to donate. A fetus is a potential life, you have to recognize that otherwise you are devaluing abortion to something as simple as picking pizza toppings.

      In Canada where I live, free abortions are a constitutional right at any point in a woman's pregnancy and she does not need to tell her parents (if she's under age) or get any counselling unless it is a late term abortion. That's why I think it's a good thing there's a debate in the US.

      There need to be reasonable limits on abortion and emphasis on personal responsibility (since most abortions are from bad choices) and the sanctity of life since we only get one.

    • 4Elements

      I find it amusing that men are the ones protesting this the most when they will never face this situation, while women who have a very real possibility of facing an unwanted pregnancy (myself included), tend to be more rational. I thought it would be the other way around. Interesting.

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  • Puppylove94
    i would never get an abortion. I plan on only having sex with someone i could see myself having a child with considering birth control doesn't always work.

    However, i am still pro choice. The government has no right to take that away from someone.

    • bobbyxx

      They have every right. They make the law.

    • @bobbyxx we are all in charge of our own bodies.

    • bobbyxx

      And if the government changed the law and it is the Childs boby as well.

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  • Katy16
    I don't feel the need to read all that.

    Bottom line is, abortion is murder. If you can't handle a kid then don't have sex.
    • 4Elements

      Oh? Then allow me to ask you this from MyTake):

      >If every single one of them had to pledge to adopt the child or pay something akin the child support to prevent the "MURDER!" of the breeding parasite with no way of backing out, I'll bet that the amount of protestors that stay outside trying to convince women that they're making a mistake (ugh) would drop really quickly.

      Are you sexually active? Remember birth control is at best 99% effective. No one wants to think they could be that 1%, but they could be.

    • Katy16

      It's no one's responsibility but the two people who make the baby though, so having others pay would be stupid. And I understand that, so even if you are on the pill (or other birth control) if you REALLY can't handle a child you shouldn't be having sex.

    • 4Elements

      If you value life so much, adopt all the unwanted children. Otherwise, leave it to the woman who will make the choice whether to abort or not.

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  • FakeName123
    No matter what you argue about side-effects of abortion / no-abortion - the entire debate comes down to one thing: Do you consider the fetus a living human being or not.

    Everything else is just yada-yada that is talking around the bush.
    • Well, you have to consider it a human being prior to the legal abortion cut-off and your definition of human being would have to be such that it would actually be ethically wrong to terminate its existence, you would also need the ethical wrong to outweigh any negative impact (we allow murder in war and to stop dangerous criminals because there the negative impact of not allowing these murders would be worse than the murders themselves). The first and second conditions are a variation of the Ship of Theseus, so there's not really an objective answer and there never will be, no matter how far philosophy and science advance.

    • 4Elements

      @JohnDoe3000 When the fetus can survive outside of the mothers womb (post 5-6 months), in an incubator on breathing tubes, then I can say it's a human being. Otherwise it's merely a parasite.

    • 4Elements

      The fetus is not a living human being. It survives through the mother's womb. End of question.

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  • RedHood7
    "It doesn't affect you, it affects the woman and the parasite that is using her uterus as an extended stay vacation."

    You think a fetus is a parasite but you call 'pro-life' people dense?
    • 4Elements

      The fetus is a parasite. It's presence is harmful to the mother. Death from pregnancy/childbirth is still a thing you know.

      I find it amusing that men are the ones protesting this the most when they will never face this situation, while women who have a very real possibility of facing an unwanted pregnancy (myself included), tend to be more rational. I thought it would be the other way around. Interesting.

  • Jackblue
    "It doesn't affect you, it affects the woman and the parasite that is using her uterus as an extended stay vacation." How wonderful that you care if the parasite is placed in the overcrowded foster system. Is there a single person on this earth that didn't have at least one ancestor with a worse childhood than those kids will get. Perhaps humanity should have just been wiped out to prevent any of us suffering.
    • 4Elements

      I don't see you adopting all the unwanted and unloved children in foster homes. Abortion prevents that fate.

    • Jackblue

      Burn the village in order to save it, how wonderful.

    • 4Elements

      You can save the village by adopting them all, get all your pro-life buddies together, raise millions! Y'all can do it! The power of love and all that jazz!

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  • WhaChaChaKing
    I started reading this with an open mind then you referred to an unborn child as a "parasite". Your opinion is worthless to me and I assume mine is to you as well.
    • 4Elements

      I like reading everyone's opinions. They might be fundamentally stupid but if someone wants to delude themselves (prolifers) they who am I to knock them out of their magical world?

    • Sounds like you just like belittling people.

    • 4Elements

      Maybe, maybe not. I guess it's up for a lengthy debate but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

      Also, an unborn child IS a parasite.

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  • AleDeEurope
    I'm pro-abortion, but I've always hated the excuse of "it's the woman's choice". If that's the excuse, then you could kill your 4 y/o son because it's your choice, I mean, you gave birth to him, you're raising him, and it's your duty to take care of him, therefore, you can kill him right?
    No, you can't, because he's alive. That's the difference. Life vs no life. It's not about woman vs man.
    You shouldn't be able to abort your kid 2 weeks before birth.

    In my opinion, if the're no life yet inside the womb, then it's ok to abort, but once you reach the time when the baby can live on its own outside the womb, then abortion shouldn't happen, cause there's life.
    • 4Elements

      You shouldn't be able to abort your kid 2 weeks before birth.
      And I agree because the fetus is able to survive outside the womb. That's why cutoff times exist.

  • Unit1
    Very good take!
    Narrow minded (pro-life) people just won't get it and never will because they are beyond saving.

    Just do what is good for you and let nobody else tell you otherwise!
    • 4Elements

      Thank you!

    • Unit1

      I have to giggle at the stupid downvoters :P

      Let me tell you one more thing:

      Pro lifers think like this: I know what is good for you!

      Pro choicers think like this: You know what is good for you!

      Savvy :> ?

  • First things first. You and I would agree on those who pick and choose which teachings in Christianity to obey and disregard. Many in the Church may be what we call “cafeteria Catholics”, but the Church itself does not now, never has, and never will condone non-marital sex. I and the overwhelming majority of my friends stand by the Church’s teaching. Though I’m curious to know what you’d say to people who tell us that we should “get with the times”.

    Now here’s where I’ll be more critical…

    Having different views and values than you doesn’t make someone “naïve”. I feel that this is something liberals (whether or not you yourself are one) don’t understand about the world. I get it. No one wants to be on the wrong side of an issue, but people think, feel, and EXPERIENCE differently. This might make their ideas legitimate. You can question their motives, but you can’t just assume that they’re naïve. No amount of petty insults like the ones you lodged here will change that. That says more about you than me to the well-rounded person, regardless of where they stand.

    Is Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood director who converted to the Catholic Church and is now pro-life activist, naïve? Or the late Norma McCorvey, AKA Jane Roe from Roe vs. Wade, who converted to the Catholic Church and was a pro-life activist? Or the late Dr. Bernard Nathanson, an ex-abortionist who performed thousands of abortions (his own child being one of them) and coined the term “pro-choice” who…wait for it…converted to the Catholic Church and became a pro-life activist? Did they miss the big picture?

    Now let’s talk about fanatics. A few months ago when I prayed the Rosary at Planned Parenthood, my group – made up of young Catholics, most of whom were women – was heckled BY THE EVANGELICALS. This church didn’t start showing up until the last few years. My group just silently prayed, like we always do. No loudspeakers, no signs, nothing. When we were done, we challenged the Evangelicals for shouting at the women going into PP; one of them came over specifically to antagonize us. In fact, some PP counter-protestors thanked one of our women for that. Who were the fanatics here?

    Lastly, your comments about men. I’ll be perfectly honest, that’s a very ignorant and immature way of looking at us...(continued in next comment)...
    • BCRanger10

      This kind of thinking sustains that lie that men are just stupid, selfish, lazy, sex-crazed pigs who are incapable of or choose not to practice self-control, responsibility, basic human empathy, and above all, selfless love. Men may not deal with pregnancy and childbirth in the same way that women do, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t and don’t see how women behave while pregnant and won’t adjust themselves to help in any way that they can. Furthermore, men contribute a lot more to a child’s life than just a “quick deposit”. My own father is the most selfless and loving man I have ever known. He has bent over backwards at every turn for my mom, my siblings, and me. He was there every step of the way. I hope and pray that I can be half the man that he is...(continued in next comment)...

    • BCRanger10

      I don’t know what your home life was like, but DO NOT paint me, my father, or my friends…basically men as a whole with the same brush. If you choose to continue thinking this way about men, then that’s your right, but then you will never understand the heart, mind, or soul of a man and you will be in no valid position to judge me for where I stand on abortion.

      Now how does it affect me and why do I care? I think that this myTake and my response thus far ought to answer that question. Mother Teresa said that “the so-called right to abortion has pitted mother against child and man against woman”. I see the “men” who have in fact failed and my heart aches for how today’s culture sees me, a young and faithful Catholic man, because of it and for how today’s women have been conditioned to see me because of it...(continued in next comment)...

    • BCRanger10

      I see the lies that men are told day in and day out about who and what they are. I see the bitterness of men because of modern feminism. And above all, I see the horrifying loss of innocence in children, that children are seen as inconveniences or, as you put it, “parasites”.

      That is why it concerns me.

      Having said all this, with all due respect, between you and me, I am not the one who has missed the big picture.

  • pnl86
    I don't know if women know this, but, there are three major cases that touch upon "abortion."

    Gonzales v. Carhart: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2006/05-380

    Roe v. Wade: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1971/70-18

    Eisenstadt v. Baird: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1971/70-17

    Without Eisenstadt v. Baird, there would be no basis for Roe v. Wade. In Eisenstadt, the Court struggled with the "right to privacy," as it was considered a subsection of the right to "liberty" under the 14th Amendment. The Court famously held:

    "If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child."

    So, contrary to what many women would like to believe, the right to terminate the "developing" life of the fetus has absolutely nothing to do with "It's my body, therefore, it's my choice." No. That's not the constitutional basis. The reason it's a person's right (man or woman; i. e., not JUST/ONLY a WOMAN'S RIGHT) is because of the constitutionally protected right to "privacy" (under the umbrella of liberty within the 14th Amendment).

    Theoretically, if babies could be grown in test tubes in factories, people would still have the right to terminate the "developing" fetus. So, it has absolutely nothing to do with one's "body." In fact, stay with the babies growing in test tubes in a lab hypothetical as an analytical tool.

    Roe v. Wade comes along and says, there comes a point where society's interest in life and heart wrenching morality cannot take a back seat any longer. What is that point? After the first trimester. Roe v. Wade speaks to "timing." It's merely a "limit" on the unhindered right to have an abortion. What's that reasonable limit? The first three months. Beyond that, all of society's interest supersedes your interest in privacy/liberty which you sat on for 90 days.

    Gonzales v. Carhart comes along and speaks about "methods" of an abortion procedure. The "method" of disassembling the fetus piece by piece through so-called "partial birth" abortions is so heart wrenching for society and contrary to the collective notions of humanity and respect to life, that it's simply not "protected" under the 14th Amendment. Other more humane "methods" of abortion are permitted, just not this one.
  • Nice_Guy_Last
    Look, I'm not in the pro-life camp (strictly speaking, I'm not pro-abortion either, I just don't see an effective solution to an increasingly difficult problem outside of abortion yet). That being said, equivocating a fetus, an unborn, under developed human being, to a parasite, is not just inaccurate, but trivializes abortions, as though getting one were equivalent to slapping a mosquito off of your arm.

    A parasite is a fully formed organism that relies on other species to survive. This means that a fetus cannot be classified as a parasite. More importantly, whether a fetus is a person or not is up to debate, it is a member of our species, and is by all rights a human.

    To call it a parasite also trivializes the difficult situations women go through when deciding whether or not to keep their child. Any sane human being has no issue removing a parasite from their body, but women have long, far reaching mental stress as a result of the abortion, many coming to live with lifelong regret.
  • katiesmuff
    Great article 4 elements and so absolutely on the mark.
    • 4Elements

      Thank you. I felt I may have come off as aggressive but if I sugar-coated it then many pro lifers would ignore my points and reasoning. It sparked debate and I'm glad we all learned something.

    • katiesmuff

      No mention of Plan B (morning after pill) was made which surprised me a bit. Is that considered abortion or not as it is taken so soon after sex that you have no idea whether you were pregnant or not. I always had sex bareback and whenever I even had a thought I possibly could be pregnant I picked up the pill and took it. Pregnant or not it upsets your system for a few days in either case so you never know.

    • 4Elements

      I wrote this from the point of view of having everything fail (birth control, plan B) or rape for simplicity haha. Abortion should never be used as a form of birth control, only as a last resort in my opinion.

  • ObscuredBeyond
    Abortion is based on the superstition that sacrificing a child today guarantees economic prosperity tomorrow. Except, many of those having one are not studying, not getting good jobs, not investing, and very importantly: NOT making the right career connections! And even those who do these things, more often than not, get screwed over by market fluctuations or by the advance of technology rendering degrees obsolete.

    So in the end, they are infertile, have lost that precious child, will have to answer for what they've thrown away before an unimpressed Divine Court, and STILL have no money or prosperity to show for it!
    • 4Elements

      Medical and surgical abortions do not cause infertility.

      A human being does not live inside your womb, but rather out of it.

      If you are able and willing to have and raise a child, do it! As long as you can support yourself and your child without draining the system, go ahead. But if you can't, then don't. And don't let anyone force their beliefs onto you. Because at the end of the day you can scream abortion is murder until you cannot speak and protest all you like but once the child is born, are you going to stick around to help them? Are you donating a quarter of a million? Or will you turn around and say, "How irresponsible!" Or "Why have a child if you can't afford it" and move on when you see a struggling family and help "save a life" of the next woman with an unwanted pregnancy?

  • Mesonfielde
    I don't think I've ever read the word "parasite" so very often in a given block of text.

    Did your mother hate you as a kid or something?
    • Unit1

      She has the right to express her feelings like that and I understand her.

    • @Unit1 I'd understand this only if my mother had hated me, which she didn't.

  • TacosRAwesome
    I'm pro choics for others but pro-life for myself, meaning if I get pregnant I will figure out how to keep it, if others get pregnant, it's their problem.
    Now whether if is technically true or not, calling a fetus a parasite simply because it causes a few problems is highly disrespectful in my opinion.
  • vishna
    Hmm, I am also pro choice, but I disagree with you on a few points. First, I don't think the best term for the embryo is parasite. Embryos can lead to babies which can give infinite joy to someone. I do agree that people picketing clinics are wrong and fail to see how insensitive and heartless (and stingy) they are being. It's easy to hold a sign, yell, and judge but not so easy to provide for another human being for 18 years. However, I don't quite understand why you took such an intolerant tone when trying to (well, I don't really know what you were trying to accomplish) All in all, I agree with some of this and disagree with some too.
  • jacquesvol
    Sperm is alive
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSU4kBTfYZQ

    Each time you masturbate, you commit a genocide. And a girl who swallows is a cannibal.
  • Nuala
    Embryos as far as we know are unconscious untill fairly soon before they are born. Do you know who else we are fairly sure is unconscious? Coma patients. I see vary few people saying that the family shouldn't have the decision to unplug a family member in a coma. The embryo is almost certainly not feeling pain but coma patients we're less sure about... So why is it okay for one but not the other?
    Personally I'm pro choice.
  • Righttobeararms83
    If we are overcrowded should we not give teenage girls mandatory arm implants to prevent unwanted pregnancy and start licencing people to have children with conditions such as parents must be married and financially stable.
    The real problem we face in western countries is aging populations and falling birth rates meaning there will not be enough youngsters to look after us in old age. Countries with falling birthrates and aging populations are doomed just look at Japan, Russia and Germany.
  • Krillanr
    All fine and dandy, followed by insults.

    Yep, my interest died at that.
  • gotc147
    Once the US adopts abortion laws like Germany and France I will become outspokenly pro-choice.

    Until then, that "parasite" is just as much mine as it is yours.
  • John_Doesnt
    I find it weird that so many men are pro-life because we're always the ones who have to pay for pregnancies and child support and crap. But whatever.
    • They probably say that till they have an unwanted pregnancy

    • @bloodmountain1990 exactly, it reminds me of It's Always Sunny in Philidelphia. Mac is pro-life until a chick tells him she's pregnant.

    • Hah. Haven't seen that one.

      It kinda reminds me of guys who tell me they wish they had a clingy girl as opposed to none. And I'm like just wait till you date one.

  • anonman32
    Im pro choice too but do you believe it is a good idea to let all matters of reproduction in only the female part of the population? That way only women get to decide what man reproduces and what man does not. What makes you think only women should have a say in reproduction?

    Dont you think its unethical for a woman to get pregnant and make the man financially support her without his consent? If its her body her rules it should be his bank account his choice.

    Honestly if a woman is pregant by my sperm and she aborts the baby then she kills our relationship too. I want kids and im gonna get them too.
    • 4Elements

      That's completely fine. But many people don't talk with their sexual partner before doing the deed to see which side they are on. I would never sleep with someone who is pro-life while being prochoice because our beliefs would not match up.

  • I am against abortion for myself, therefore if I get pregnant I will keep the baby and take full responsibility so because I don't want to do that I will take extreme measures to not get pregnant.
  • skeptic002
    all i hear is excuses
    kill my kid I will put a knife in your throat
    it isn't a game for me
    • 4Elements

      Then only sleep with pro-life girls. That way you both can suffer and drain society together!

    • skeptic002

      wow you are dumb

    • 4Elements

      I posted my opinion. You read it knowing you wouldn't like it. You commented knowing there was a chance I would reply. Who's really the dumb one here? (I'll give you a hint, it's you).

  • BigLabs56
    You were a parasite once too! The fetus is not part of the women's body. So women who say that the baby is her body is wrong. It's not your body that's why the body treats him/her as a foreign body by developing an immune response as you said. The reason why the mother goes through this is out of her own love for the child. To kill the child is essentially an act caused because you hate yourself and hold no value in your life. Like the best way to prevent your child from being born is to kill yourself at the moment of conception. and that's outrageous that you would even go there.
    • 4Elements

      Yes. Pregnancy hormones aren't looking out for the mother, they look out for the fetus.

  • Dargil
    Sovereign human life begins at conception. Any other belief is self-deception.
    The Christian Bible is subject to whether or not you buy in to it's ideology, but basic human rights exist beyond any religion and are not a practical, political or economic matter. They are fundamental and there is no bigger picture. We, as humans will enforce this truth imperfectly... heinous, life shortening birth defects... horrific personal trauma. But economics, timing, societal pressures and anything else we can conjure up are self-deceptions and rationalizations for our convenience. We will kill the unborn to keep the band playing... on the Titanic.. as we sink with it and we kill our children to keep the Champagne pouring. God... or Gaia... help us.
    • katiesmuff

      NO! It is YOUR belief and I along with millions of others believe differently.

    • Dargil

      @katiesmuff. My beliefs don't require you to believe as i do. Child murder is easier than personal responsibility and I predict that forced euthanasia of the elderly for reasons of finance and convenience is in the pipeline. Welcome to the brave new world.

  • Omar5881
    You people take value out of every fucking thing with your materialistic mentality
  • Donniej
    Look despite what you want to believe a fetus is a human being at a different stage in development. And when you are having an abortion your killing a human period. Now I don't personally care what you do in the situation of a pregnancy the same way I don't care if you kill an adult. But please don't lie and tell others or yourself for that matter that your "aborting a fetus" and that it's not human OK and I don't understand how you people see this as a women's rights issue , it's not it's a human rights issue and yes I know there are exceptions where an abortion is the only answer you know the same way we would give a murderer the electric chair. It's amazing how people have no honor today.
  • Editor
    Totally agree. Abortion needs to be legal at any stage of the zygote's presence, from conception up to the 370th month.
  • KnightCross
    ridiculous text... there are so many fallacy but fortunately it seems a lot of guys have already exposed them...
  • Gommers
    The kind of person that generalizes based on political opinion has no valid point to make.
  • bloodmountain1990
    One of the biggest hypocrisies of many pro life people is they're so for that baby being born but once the kid is born, he/she is on their own. And if a kid doesn't have access to education, food, and shelter then they say to the kid oh well your parents should have thought about that before they had to.

    Abortion should never be a go to form of contraception and it's not like women who get one feel great about it. They actually feel a lot of guilt from doing so. Having said that, safe sex should always be practiced.
  • abundantlyrich
    good take
  • Derpdeder
    Anti murder people don't see the bigger picture
    • 4Elements

      A human being does not live inside your womb, but rather out of it.

      If you are able and willing to have and raise a child, do it! As long as you can support yourself and your child without draining the system, go ahead. But if you can't, then don't. And don't let anyone force their beliefs onto you. Because at the end of the day you can scream abortion is murder until you cannot speak and protest all you like but once the child is born, are you going to stick around to help them? Are you donating a quarter of a million? Or will you turn around and say, "How irresponsible!" Or "Why have a child if you can't afford it" and move on when you see a struggling family and help "save a life" of the next woman with an unwanted pregnancy?

  • RebeccaSJ
    I am very strongly pro-life.
  • Adigelunar
    good-
  • Anonymous
    these are just cheap excuses not true arguments. if you dont want to kill it then dont open your legs prematurely.

    and despite your atheistic upbringing, this kid is a full fledged human with a soul since its zygote state. not after birth.
    • Anonymous

      i won't even comment on the inhuman parasite part. i hope your bloodline is lost from the human pool.

  • Anonymous
    The baby inside the mother isn't alive until 4 weeks (I think O'm not sure exactly) Before it, the baby's heart isn't alive and doesn't beat. I think you can have abortion before it's alive otherwise it's like : don't kill semen they have a life.
    • heart or brain dont equal life. the zygote has a soul since day 1.

    • goaded

      @supernerd99 believes the zygote has a soul since day 1.

      Fixed that for you.

    • @goaded well yes. this tradition was accepted for millenia. now in the atheistic modernity we discarded the soul to justify all our wrong doings... .

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  • Anonymous
    That's what pro-choice don't get: it's not your body, it's the life you have inside of your body because you weren't careful enough.
    Now call it a parasite or whatever you want to call it if that makes you feel more comfortable, at the end of the day it's still alive.
    And one more thing (among the thousands that could be said), children could be considered parasites until they are, I don't know, maybe 4 or 5? Because they still depend on someone who take care of them, someone to dress them, to feed them (or cook for them)... Yeah, they're parasites, let's give women the oportunity to kill them all, because they can't live without another person who waste their time and life with them.
    • 4Elements

      A fetus exists because it feeds off the mother's body, inside it. A child is its own independent person. I'm pretty sure babies aren't built into women's bodies at birth then show up at the most inconvenient time.

      Next thing we know pro life people want to save cancer cells! "Don't remove it, it's a life too! Just deal with it while I live my cancer free life, but I'll call you a murderer if you remove something that you don't want and is causing you great harm!"

  • Anonymous
    Killing something because it inconveniences you is the definition of evil.
    • 4Elements

      Welp, you better start adopting then.

    • Anonymous

      Fostering children is something Id like to do when I've finished my formal studies.

    • 4Elements

      Imagine caring for a child you never wanted after being forced to carry him/her to term. Feeding it, bathing it, entertaining it and caring for it for years on end, often with no support. The father is not involved (due to rape, incest or simply disinterest). Your body has permanently changed, your career/education is forever postponed

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  • Anonymous
    I wouldn't want to know I was a product of rape. That's for damn sure
  • Anonymous
    Exactly, fantastic myTake, I agree 100% :D
    • Anonymous

      Except with the part about parasite, because you can't create parasite by having sex. Most of the parasites are insects and worms, not mammals. Sure, it's women's choice, but not because the embryo is not human (yet), but because it's not conscious/cognitive human being, therefore, it's not alive in sentient sense.
      People who are "pro-life" are actually pro-bigotry... most of them are judeo-christian-islamic zealots. Every woman has a right to choose, we live in democracy, not in some religious state or church principate.

    • 4Elements

      Thank you

    • Anonymous

      You're welcome :)

  • Anonymous
    I find it interesting that the person that was dumb enough to create the parasite that she didn't want thinks she's prescient enough to decide at what point life begins. I think your Mytake is actually pretty good, but probably not in the way you think it is haha.
    • 4Elements

      Birth control is only 99% effective at best.

    • Anonymous

      So now that we are discussing statistics, how many women that had an abortion were actually using birth control correctly? I don't know about you, but i am not intelligent enough to know exactly when "life" begins. I can tell you for sure that it didn't begin before the baby was conceived and i can also tell you for sure that it began before the "parasite" took a trip down the canal. To think that anyone has the arrogance to believe their womb is worth more than another human's life is just ridiculous. The bigger picture is taking responsibility for actions you might choose to take and not taking them if you can't deal with a possible outcome. I for one know i do not know when life begins and i prefer to err on the conservative side because i'd rather make a difficult decision than be responsible for the death of another human being.

    • 4Elements

      A human being does not live inside your womb, but rather out of it.

      If you are able and willing to have and raise a child, do it! As long as you can support yourself and your child without draining the system, go ahead. But if you can't, then don't. And don't let anyone force their beliefs onto you. Because at the end of the day you can scream abortion is murder until you cannot speak and protest all you like but once the child is born, are you going to stick around to help them? Are you donating a quarter of a million? Or will you turn around and say, "How irresponsible!" Or "Why have a child if you can't afford it" and move on when you see a struggling family and help "save a life" of the next woman with an unwanted pregnancy?

  • Anonymous
    Here we go again, yet more trying to justify abortion. I'm a pro lifer and I'm not a bit religious and also your take is very sexist to men.
    • Anonymous

      And actually looking at the ways you describe unborn babies as parasites and about uterus being staycations is disgusting. You pro abortion preachers are parasites.

    • 4Elements

      And you pro-lifers seem to be unable to open your minds and realize that not everything fits into your little world view. Adopt all the potential unborn children in the world that their parents don't want since you pro-lifers seem to value life so much, then we can talk. Have a nice day!

  • Anonymous
    A fetus is not a parasite.

    Definition of a parasite: 1. Biology: An organism that lives and feeds on or in an organism of a different species and causes harm to its host.

    One, a parasite must be of a different species. An unborn child is of the same special. Second, it doesn't cause harm to it's host. Third, a parasite feeds off of the host. An unborn child does not feed off of the mother. The mothers body feeds the an unborn child. If the mother doesn't eat, then neither does the unborn child. If the unborn child was a parasite, it would feed off of the mother regardless if the mother is eating. Another reason why the unborn child is far from being a parasite is because the unborn child can help heal its mother for the rest of her life, as beneficial cells from the child pass into the mother’s body during pregnancy. One kind of fetal cells that enter into the mother’s body is the baby’s stem cells. Stem cells have properties that can morph into other types of cells through a process called differentiation. The baby’s fetal stem cells can actually become the mother’s own cells that make up her liver, heart, or brain.

    So, calling it a parasite is not biologically correct.
    • Most of your points here are fine. But 'doesnt cause harm to its host'?

      Uuhh... How much exactly do you know about pregnancy? Because that sentence alone says 'not much'

    • 4Elements

      I find it amusing that men are the ones protesting this the most when they will never face this situation, while women who have a very real possibility of facing an unwanted pregnancy (myself included), tend to be more rational. I thought it would be the other way around. Interesting.

  • Anonymous
    tip to pro choice people:

    If what you are saying wouldn't justify infanticide, it's not relevant to the abortion debate.

    Birth control is legal and the vast majority of people think it should be.

    Murder is illegal.

    The only question is where one ends and the other begins. Period.
    • 4Elements

      From the myTake:

      Who really benefits, the mother? The child? Society? Or just you and your beliefs? Do you even care what happens to the child and mother after birth, or are you satisfied you can sleep easy at night while they struggle for years to come?

    • Anonymous

      Who benefits from banning murder? The victims first and foremost.

    • 4Elements

      Lesigh 🙄

      The "victim" lives within the mother surviving through her at her expense. It's basically a tapeworm, they both have the same expense on a person.

      The mother's rights, her rights as a person, override the parasite's life

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