Is There Such a Thing as Chivalry or Being a Gentleman, Anymore?

[Lavinnykins]

In the last few months, I have started a new job and it means I have joined the daily rush of commuters into the capital city. The journey is fairly stress free for myself; I'm a modern-day 20-something, travelling alone, with a rucksack on my back containing all I need for the day, my headphones on listening to music I love and a book in my hand to read on the train only to then have a stroll for fifteen minutes when I get off at the last stop.

When I board the train - regardless of if I catch the first possible train or the second - I am practically guaranteed a seat; it's at least 45 minutes until I get off and I'm one of the first stops. On the 3rd and 4th stops after I board, there are the most people boarding the train and the majority of those who seem to commute, are male adults of 30 and above.

So it's mid-week, and everyone is on their commute to work and the front carriage of the train is particularly busy with no seats left. At the third stop after I boarded, I notice I am surrounded by men and I am sat in an isle seat of 2 seats facing another 2; facing 2 men and another next to me. I glance up from my book and notice a couple get on in their early-30's, I'd have said. They walked past at least 7 men and stood next to the 4 seats where I am sat. I notice the female stood there seems to have a little tummy the protrudes and for a moment I'm thinking ' is she pregnant or am I just being a bit much?', purely because nobody made an attempt to move.

Now I don't know where these pin badges come from but I think they're great; they're white badges slightly bigger than a 50p coin and have on them 'Baby on Board'. I mean, the hangers in car windows are for safety sake to alert that there is a baby in the vehicle but now they have the same tagline on pin badges... gimmick? Absolutely not. So anyway, this woman turns slightly and I see the white edge of a badge and the suspicion I had is confirmed; she is pregnant. In the last 30 or so seconds she has been stood there, practically all the men sitting down and I mean ALL THE MEN she has walked past, have all looked up at her. She has a badge on confirming she is pregnant so you can't be presumed as rude offering a bloated woman a seat. SHE IS PREGNANT!! Not a single man sat near me made a move.

I slid off my headphones and tapped the woman on the arm; she had her back to me and as she turned, her swollen tummy was pretty much in a 30-something guy's face. I offered her my seat and I have never seen a person so grateful to be offered somewhere to sit down. Now, because I tend to get everything on my lap when I sit down - ipod, hat, gloves, book - as I stood up in haste, my hat dropped on the floor and my ipod swung behind me over my bag. The pregnant woman offered to help, but I said it was okay and laughed it off.

The next bit, got me; the 30-something opposite me, handed my hat to me and said 'do you want to sit here?'! No! No I don't want to sit there! Don't try to redeem yourself now! You had a perfect opportunity there to offer your seat up for a pregnant woman wearing one of these badges specifically designed for that reason, you looked at her and had her tummy next to your face and yet you still, STILL, didn't give up your seat but you'll give it up for little me who does the commute every day and is only looking after myself. It really rattled me and just made me think, ' you know, chivalry is no longer existing and gentlemen are far and few apart'.

[EpicDweeb]

Chivalry is certainly still around and personally I strive to be a gentleman. I've found there are times when it feels like it may be inappropriate to do the chivalrous thing. I was hanging out with a friend and her boyfriend. She isn't the skinniest girl and had a little trouble getting out of her chair... under normal circumstances I'd have helped her up. With her boyfriend there I"d have felt like I was somehow showing him up and I did NOT want to come across that way. It would have been inappropriate to do the chivalrous thing despite her bf's failure to do so.

There are times when being chivalrous just doesn't feel appropriate. I regret now that I DIDN'T give her a hand but I get that men try to be chivalrous and just feel like it's awkward to do so. At times it makes them come off as just super awkward. Even many men who try to be gentlemen are often to some degree self motivated. Some do it to appear suave so as to get the girl and others just do it because it's the kind of men they want to be. I can't say that I've never tried to be gentlemanly for the sake of impressing someone but I've tried since thne to make it more so a matter of being an honorable person.

[lord_chilled]

We live in a world past industrialism and consumerism..
People dont have the time to be curteous, let alone chivalrous anymore.
Esoecially when living in big cities. When everyone is busy and trying to survive on our own, we rend to froget about other people.

Also, we dont want to make a mistake and misjudge someone, in order not to offend them. In the more pc, hyper sensitive environment, there are a lot of overly offended individuals. Plus, with the "all men are pigs/dogs" narrative (and by the way, pick one already please) , a lot of the time, anything you do which should be "nice" is met with suspicion.

So, to answer your question, the chances that they didn't offer up their seats to her because they were all jerks is very low.

Its more likely that they were too preoccupied with thinking of their work.
Maybe they were too stressed and those couple minutes on the train were their de-stress time where they dont notice other people much.

Or maybe, they simply didn't wanna offend her and the boyfriend.
They may not wanna look like they are one-upping the boyfriend and competing.
(can be mistaken like this)

Also you said, you had to glance at her to find the "pregnant" sticker , and you werent sure.
Well, as a female, you can glance away all you want, but if a git glances too long, we start to be at risk for being offensive, creepy or worse.

If they aren't sure by a 3 second glance wether she is pregnant, then maybe they wouldn't keep looking.

Andbfinally, your reaction to the guy, in the end is the main reason.
He tried to be curteous, because maybe he realized he should have been earlier, and wanted to redeem himself, but apparently, there are no second chances.
So, i guess you answered your own questions by your own action. If they guy hadn't offered you hus seat, like the other dudes, then you might not be so angry, maybe you wouldn't have written this take.

So , non chivalry would have been his better option.

I am a chivalrous person despite all this, because my mom raised me this way, and its just too hard to unlearn.
I have been like this for too long.
When i was a kid, and a young teen, it aleays gave me posistive responses. People always tought it was nice, older women tought it was cute. I never felt bad about doing whatever i did.
The older i get, the less likely i have this happen.
Nowadays, around 30-40 % of the time it is immediately met with suspicion (at which i have learned that the best option is to give a gentle smile and then look away)

[lord_chilled]

(because looking away signals "im not interested in you")
About 30% its met with indifference, mostly when its other men (they may be thinking "why did that guy do that?" but dont really respond)
And the rest of the time i still get a smile back, and some courtesy back.

Now, you may ask "well are you just being chivalrous to be made to feel good in return?" , no, but when you do something nice in order to help someone, its so as to break down a barrier and make people feel more at ease and good.
When that attempt is met with negativity, its kinda like being rejected.
Exept that being chivalrous, is something you do a lot more regularly than approach a girl, for example.

And being made to feel bad about being chivalrous is one of the shittiest feelings.

as someone who is chivalrous, but has had to reduce it, tone it down so to speak (and i basically do it by accident , i would say its not really worth it.
The guys who did manage to completely unlearn it, or never did, are better off

[utkarshpriy20]

@kaajal
read this thread and post too

[kaajal]

@utkarshpriy20 i agree with both opionions here. I mean sometimes there isn't only one correct answer to something.

[kaajal]

Opinions*

[Anonymous]

"Far and few apart"? Can you not even get that part right?

Look, I ride the train every day and I have seen countless men offer their seats to women, including plenty of pregnant women, and yet I have NEVER seen a single woman get up and offer her seat to ANYONE, let alone a pregnant woman. You may well be the first in history, if your story is actually true.

You're taking one example and trying to make it out to be the norm just to shame men. The shame is on you because you're part of the very problem that has indeed made chivalry largely a thing of the past, as it should be considering what has happened over the last few decades.

Women themselves are the reason so many men no longer feel compelled to treat women as special. You do realize you brought this on yourselves, right? You made your bed and now you whining about having to sleep in it.

If you want men to treat you as special again, then start being special again. If you want men to appreciate you, then start appreciating men again. If you want men to treat you with respect, then start treating men with respect again. Until then, get used to it because you're getting exactly what you deserve.

[Lavinnykins]

I was actually trying to point out that a pregnant woman (yes, caused by sex with a man) was made to stand on a train and noone else (all men around) had the deceny to offer a seat up to her. I'm almost certain you'd not have offered up a seat either. The same goes for those elderly or with young children that are probably shattered on their feet. I see sympathy and basic manners doesn't exist, at least.

[Opinion Owner]

"yes, caused by sex with a man"

What was your point in that comment? Are you one of those women who views her as some sort of victim of men because she got pregnant? LOL... yes, you are indeed part of the problem I mentioned earlier. You are the reason so many men don't give a shit about your gender. Why should they when you are just whiny little "victims" who feel entitled to be treated special, except when you don't want to be?

As I said, I ride the train every day and I see people get up and offer their seats to others, whether they be women (pregnant or not), elderly, handicapped, whatever. I literally see it all the time, every day. And yet never, ever has one of those people offering their seat been a woman. Interesting, right?

[Opinion Owner]

And yes, I am one of those guys who offers his seat to others all the time. But I sure feel less inclined to do so after reading your whiny little rant here.

You've just made the problem worse. You've contributed to the ever widening chasm that exists between men and women today. You are the problem and you're not bright enough to recognize it. Nice job.

[cherryphi82]

Ignorance and arrogance are an especially toxic mix, I see.

[Opinion Owner]

@cherryphi82 Don't forget sexism... he has all three covered, for sure.

[cherryphi82]

Yup :)

[Anonymous]

You're one of the few women who are also civil and courteous to other people around you. This has been an obligation held against men by society while women never had to lift a finger to do anything for those in need, I think probably because women were raised to believe that it's up to the men to do everything for them and other people. The fact that you only offered your seat AFTER you realized the males weren't going to do it instead is evident to this. The lady should have had multiple seats to choose from, yours included, but you still waited instead of immediately jumping to the opportunity, but why didn't you? Because you're also a woman? Or is there another reason? You had a lot of stuff to carry so just like the woman carrying the baby inside of her, you get to claim a seat for yourself? I'm sure these men had their reasons as well.

As everybody else has pointed out, blame your feminist sisters for ruining such things as chivalry and gentlemanly behaviors. It's every man for himself now that women are equal, and it's great that women are starting to realize how they truly have no special treatment or advantages anymore now that men have abandoned them.

[RationalMale]

Chivalry existed only for ladies, not for common women, and came from the french chevalerie, which means horse soldiery.

You don't get to be equal to men and somehow have special protections and considerations. Why should we give up a seat for a pregnant woman? Besides, it's sexism. insider.foxnews.com/.../study-opening-doors-women-benevolent-sexism

2.bp.blogspot.com/.../...n%2Bshe%2Blikes%2Bit.jpeg

[Anonymous]

Chivalry when she likes it, sexism when she doesn't, blame feminism for this, equality means equality, you can't cherry pick out all the benefits of both genders and still expect men to assume their supposed gender roles when it comes to compromises, I've been on the sharp end of the stick of feminism many times in the past, once or twice for actually trying to help out a woman, how dare I threaten their independence, they don't need men anymore now, even though men have built this society that protects and shelters them, fine by me, I wouldn't get up for a pregnant women now either, respect to those men who remained seated, her baby, her problem

[Anonymous]

Um, WHY is this directed at men? Should this not be directed at PEOPLE? PEOPLE, WOMAN OR MAN, should have been more courteous. Why do you have to fault MEN in the matter? How do you know there were not WOMEN doing the same shit? Why go and bash MEN on this? It's SOCIETY. Not MEN. Ok. And most of the comments on here from guys you can expect to be a lot harsher. Just wait. If the MGTOW community got a hold of this, you'd be infamous on there. I don't even like MGTOW 100%! Or the red pill crap! I personally want HUMAN BEINGS to be EQUAL to each other. It's been more than proven it is possible, so society needs to DO IT. Enough of this women vs men BS! If a non gendered alien species came to Earth and took one look at how petty human infighting is, they'd laugh and either conquer and kill easily, help fix it (I'd hope), or drive right past!

[Lavinnykins]

The point was that she passed practically all men and I was the first female. It struck me that it didn't seem right. Had there been women she passed also, I would have questioned people in general but in this situation, it was only men and it shocked me.

[Opinion Owner]

True, but for all you know, there's plenty of women that did exactly the same action for her while one man thoughts exactly as you had. Don't fall into the trap of women vs men. As I suspected, this post has only responses with men who roll their eyes and use this as another reason to dislike women. It was a thing in your perspective at that moment. Are guys possibly more selfish these days? Yes. Are women possibly too though? Yes. There are too many things depending on area and circumstance to be able to judge men vs women. I do agree men are the ones who started a bad system, but many women use that system to their advantage making them just as bad or worse than the men who created and control the system. Human beings in general should be judged as one. We are all one species like it or not, and all related and connected. It has to be that way given that there are billions of other species completely different from us. Humans are the dominant species. Act like it. As one.

[Anonymous]

The important thing is that you gave your seat. you were nice.

so who cares what the men do? oh what you think just because you're a woman you shouldn't have to give your seat up for a pregnant lady?

Maybe those guys are dicks, maybe its another reason. you did the right thing.

now as the other dude said, women now a days complain when men act like gentlemen. I think i speak for all men when i say... y'all ladies are acting like little girls. make up your minds. its like its never right. whatever they do its never right.

Now i do believe there is such a thing as Chivalry and being a gentlemen. truth is, 90% of you females dont deserve that treatment anymore.

All i can say is, a good person wouldn't complain for having to get up for a pregnant lady. Men wouldn't. I see a lot of women do.

its like you're just being nice for show. Now please, grow up.

[Lavinnykins]

Oh, I was more than happy to get up for the woman knowing the reality of her situation and she was incredibly thankful for it; I didn't think twice about it but wondered why so many others she passed, didn't offer their seat to her but the one guy would offer it to me... it was all a very confusing situation. Manners go so far and it didn't seem right that noone else had the same mindset...

[Caaarl]

Chivalry cannot exist in a society that's moving to accept equality for equality of the sexes. Chivarly is origin is about protecting women because they're the weaker sex. Chivalry is putting women up on a pedestal because they are believed to be needed to me pushed up and that they are incapable. That they are a resource that need to be protected.

How can women be seen as equal if they are put up on a pedestal? It's disadvantageous to men and men should respect their own worth rather than sacrifice themselves to earn the attention of the opposite sex.

[Thatblokeoverthere]

I opened a door for a woman two weeks ago and she went into a tirade about how i was insulting her feminist values.. it has not stopped me opening doors for others but it made me want to punch her

[Lavinnykins]

Haha I'm incredibly thankful for anyone who holds a door open! Even more so if I'm carrying a lot! The feminism movement has started going too far...

[FatherJack]

I have even been kicked by a nasty young woman for doing the same !!

[Tae-ken]

Ask if she believes in equality. If she does, treat her like an equal. Knock her out like you would to a guy.

[Blonde401]

I think this is true for lots of people. I’m someone who always offers to help simply because I want to world to be a better place. This has gotten me in some sticky situations! But yeah, I find people are tuned out to what’s going on around them these days. It’s quite sad. Good take!

[Auzie]

You say chivalry is dead? Well guess what, my dear, women killed it. You can thank feminism/gynocentrism. You wanted equality, you got it. What’s that you say? You want to be treated like a lady? But still have all the benefits of men with none of the responsibility/accountability? Give me a break. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Where have all the good men gone, you ask? Far away from you. How about where have all the good WOMEN gone? You’re the reason why movements like MGTOW are getting bigger. You reap what you sow. I don’t feel one bit sorry for women these days. I’m done apologizing. Peace.

[KINGNIGGA123]

www.google.com.au/url

[Cosytoasty]

You're clearly new to London so i'll explain... unless she's 8 months in and looks like a whale, she doesn't count as "less able to stand".

Seats are given up for the elderly, those with obvious disabilities and perhaps someone who is in the later stages of pregnancy. Having a slightly bump doesn't render you unable to walk.

[Lavinnykins]

There shouldn't be a timeframe for how pregnant someone is... how ridiculous. The woman is carrying a baby which she is forming and she must be exhausted, regardless.

[Cosytoasty]

Of course there is a physical different between 2 months and 8 months lol.

Anyway i don’t see the problem asking if she wants a seat, ask politely and most will happily give it up. Too scared to ask? Not everyone else’s problem.

[Anonymous]

I dunno why guys comment were so rude... If the pregnant woman has got not that revealing bump then means the pregnancy is just at the first trimester or the early month and i read that was the very fragile months to pregnancy. They can't stand up too much.
Whether it was chivalry or not, men or women who's not offering seat to pregnant woman is lack of manner.
In this case just happen so many men there than women.
Im not saying that man should gave their seat to woman, but please gave seat to pregnant woman. She carried other human being there.

[backdoorman]

I think guys' comments were defensive because the OP tried to make this about men. Have another look at the title question. It's definitely targeted at men.

And she complained about herself having to give up her seat when there were men around who didn't, as if she shouldn't have had to because she's a woman. I think men are just getting a little tired of this kind of sexism.

[Anonymous]

What does not offering a seat have to do with being a man? Are all men supposed to stand up and give women a seat? This isn't a man issue, this is a human issue.

You said:
"I slid off my headphones and tapped the woman on the arm; she had her back to me and as she turned, her swollen tummy was pretty much in a 30-something guy's face. I offered her my seat and I have never seen a person so grateful to be offered somewhere to sit down."

You were just being a decent human being. This has nothing to do with being a man or a woman. It has to do with basic human decency. The fact that you made this issue all about men is stupid. Why didn't other women offer their seat? Like I said, it's about human decency.

[Lavinnykins]

She had only passed men to the point she stood at... its baffling.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, chivalry is dead. Killed by feminism, who bit the face off any man who dared to act like a woman was less than a man by holding a door open for her or offering her a seat...

You can downvote all you want, but men know that is why they don't do this sort of thing anymore.

[AynonOMouse]

He shouldn't have offered the seat to you either. :)
No reason why he should offer his seat to anyone unless they are disabled. Heck, she probably has paid time off work, while he still has stuff to do. Maybe that is his only chance to rest for a while.

[Lavinnykins]

She was on her way to work with a lanyard round her neck and ID on the end... Plus she was making a human whilst living her own life.

[Guanfei]

Be a lady, you'll find a gentleman. Acting like a spoiled princess doesn't give you the right to ask for a gentlemen, as well as simply having a vagina.

You wanna know where gentlemen and chivalry are? They're hiding, scared that any act of chivalry can be seen as harassement, and send them to jail.

[Lavinnykins]

If that's true with men feeling like they'll be vilified about doing such polite tasks like holding doors open and letting someone come through before you, there is a serious problem...

[Guanfei]

That's sadly the time we live in. But I see more and more women standing up against it, so I have good hope this madness will stop someday.

[Kawabanga1]

thats not chivalry, thats common sense and pretty much the rule, you see a pregnant woman you stand up and give her your seat... with that being said why should i be a gentleman, womens quality is so low its laughable they have nothing to offer in return for a gentleman , and men are already getting sex.

[Anonymous]

You just happened to be the only considerate person on the train that happened to be seated by mostly men.

[Goochbreaker]

Gentlemen are few and far apart, which is why women need to stop giving pussy to bad boy sluts and start keeping an eye out for gentlemen. hint hint, we don't always have 6 packs, but when we do, we are modest about them