The Idea of "White Privilege" is Racist and "Male White Supremacy" is Sexist!

[genericname85]

Let me first elaborate on what privilege is and what it implicates for our every day life.

Privilege

is a very diffused concept of some things that one can enjoy in their day to day life, be it materialistic, idealistic or other, that other individuals are not able to enjoy.

Now some privilege that exists exclusively for certain groups of people was inarguably caused by horrendous actions of the ancestors in history. Those nefarious actions of ancestors of course raises the question of guilt.

Guilt

is what we feel as we realize the ability to enjoy those sets of privileges given to us by the horrendous actions in the past of people that belong to the group that we also associate with (by choice or by nature).

We ask ourselves how we should handle that guilt that we feel and how far our actual individual responsibility goes in order to maybe equilibrate what has been done in the past.

Realizing that we are not guilty!

So yes we obviously have a certain set of privileges. Everybody has privileges. Also everybody is guilty of things to lesser or greater extent. However we are not guilty of those things that have been done in the past that enable us to have those privilege and this is a very important realization, because that means that we don't have any responsibility to equilibrate for what has been done in the past.

So what should we do?

I mean should we just shamelessly enjoy our privilege and just ignore the past? Of course not. We should be very aware of the past and we must acknowledge that the privilege we have came at a terrible cost. We have to use it responsibly and with great respect and that is the exact point where our oligations end.

Having explained all that, I can now finally elaborate on this takes headline:

Why is "white privilege" racist?

As I just explained: we are unguilty of what has been done in the past and our obligation is to treat the past with respect and not exploit our privilege to harm others is where that obligations end.

What the term "white privilege" does is holding everybody who is white accountable and making them individually GUILTY of what happened in the past, which is just a dangerous crime of false accusation and racism, because you discriminate against the individual based on their skin color and thereby group identity because they are part of that group that committed the crimes in the past.

This is the purest form of racism and should not be condoned, let alone promoted by our society which regularly used the term "white privilege" in the media. It's an act of hate speech and racism and i invite you to promote that notion so that people using those words acknowledge what they do as I believe most are just unaware.

I hope you understand the argument so that I don't need to make the same case for male white supremacy, as really it is the same thing just based on gender AND color, not just color, therefore it's sexist AND racist.

[madhatters4]

white privilege isn't a racist notion. every demographic in society experiences some level of privilege due to being a member of that demographic.

the level of triggered people about an undeniable thing is just hilarious. white people don't need to feel guilty about white privilege just like as a black person i don't have to feel guilty about privileges i have

[genericname85]

you are exactly right! yet the terminology of "white privilege" or "male white supremacy" is more often than not used in an accusatory fashion where the person arguing with those words insinuates that the party that the argument is directed at should feel guilty and therefore abide by the rules or "suggested actions" that the person arguing is going to establish using that objectively wrong feeling of guilt that they just created.

so i'm saying the problem is that it is insinuated that "you should feel guilty" in those speeches and shockingly it often works and people actually act as though they are guilty even though they are not like you just said.

[genericname85]

even though they are discriminated against in that moment they just take it due to the lack of understanding of guilt.

[madhatters4]

i don't think we should exploit our privileges that are not rightfully earned. but i also don't think we should feel guilty. i don't feel guilty about affirmative action. that is a privilege extended to minorities. it's not my fault it exists, i didn't advocate for it, in fact the vast majority of its beneficiaries didn't and don't advocate for it so i feel no guilt. but i won't unnecessarily exploit the privilege

[genericname85]

you're preaching to the choir dude :)

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Well then you're not really talking about the same white privilege as everyone else was talking about. It's more a semantic argument than anything else. Having privileges for all different people is just saying you're different which is the right way to say it -- so we can leave "white privilege" to the people who want to accuse everyone of being racist. What we shouldn't be doing is accepting the racial collectivist terms, because even when you disagree with them you still accept their framing of the world as divided by race instead of treating people as individuals.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz how is saying white privilege racist? how is saying black privilege racist? i'm sorry but you are looking for reasons rather than simply understanding. my understanding of white privilege is based on the notions as researched and asserted by the sociologists who published the works on the issue. so if anyone is having a conversation about privilege that isn't based on that then they are having a conversation based on a false premise.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Apparently white privilege is the latest term to be redefined to suit needs...

Maybe you should try and define what it is so people know what you're talking about.
To you, does white privilege refer to the observed reality of white people doing well or does it refer to the concept that they do well *because* they are white.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz neither as neither of those are close to the definition of white privilege. white privilege is the notion that being white can afford a person certain privileges that non-white people are not afforded. it's really that simple. it is not a concrete thing that applies to 100% of white people or isn't applicable to 100% of non-white people. as a black person growing up in privilege in a northeastern suburb i'm sure i enjoyed some privileges white people in a similar cultural situation enjoyed that a black person in the inner city may not have. at the same time i saw white privilege around me. i'm married to a white woman and even she realizes instances where white privilege plays out in our interactions

[madhatters4]

a classic example: a common example is when a black person gets angry and yells many may presume it is because he has a bad temper because a belief is that black people are hot headed; whereas a white person in the same situation may be afforded the benefit that something pushed them to respond angrily.
notice there is nothing concrete in the statement. it doesn't mean every white person is afforded this benefit of a doubt or every black person is presumed the angry black person. but it is a reality that plays many times

i think a reality is too many people subscribe to a notion of white privilege that has been told them by people who don't know what white privilege is. white privilege isn't the belief that all white people are doing well, are well off, or whatever... not even close

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"the notion that being white can afford a person certain privileges"
Is it *because* they're white or do people with these privileges happen to be white? It's one or the other, which is it? Because it sounds like you're saying it's *because* they're white, which is what I said. So I don't see how I'm not close when that's exactly what I'm saying, that's the normal definition. It doesn't need to be all black or white people and I never said it did.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"nothing concrete in the statement"
Yes. Literally nothing beyond people yelling in front of witnesses is concrete. You don't get to ascribe beliefs to people because you think they "may" think something. There's not just nothing concrete about who's affected but also how people think, there's so little it's almost like.. hmm.. there's no reason to believe anything at all.. funny that. What you've told me is that you look at a situation as without knowing people's hearts you'll just decide that many of them will think racist thoughts just because they're white apparently.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz i never said that dude. you level of hysteria is insane. you aren't reading you are reacting. if you don't think people experience privileges due to a litany of reasons specific to them then you are really naive

you completely overlook the fact that i said every demographic experiences some aspect of privilege. no in your hysterics you simply suggest i'm racist for acknowledging that white people can experience privilege due to being white. when you are ready for a serious conversation where you read and comprehend rather than reacting like a triggered snowflake please come back and chat

[madhatters4]

5 Reasons Why the Phrase "White Privilege" Shouldn't Offend You ↗

[AllThatSweetJazz]

There's nuance to the reasons they experience privilege Saying men have privilege in being tall because generally that's true is fine because that's real -- though this depends on the definition of privilege. So when you say white people have privilege is entirely necessary to know if these specific things happen to them is *because* they are white or if the people with any specific privilege *just happen* to be generally white. We need to know this so we know what you mean by 'privilege.' Most 'triggered snowflakes' mean unearned benefictial treatment afford to white people because they are white. I would love to know the semantic details here if your definition differs.

The reason it would be racist is because if white people get things *because* they are white then that is people being racist against non-white people and benevolently racist toward white people. That makes white privilege a fundamentally racist concept, the only question is if it's real or not.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I objected to the other take too.

[madhatters4]

i've repeatedly told you my definition which is based on the sociological research done by conservative politicians in the 70s. you've clearly repeatedly chosen to ignore it while arguing with me over a false definition.
at this point i don't see the point in this. you hate a falsely defined version of white privilege while never addressing the true white privilege as outlined in the 1970s. so this is the last time i will tell you the true meaning of white privilege...

it's not saying white people are privileged. it's to say there is white privilege. privileges that may be afforded to white people that are not afforded to non-white people

[genuinlysensitive]

Where are all the people talking about "black privilege" "Asian privilege" etc? It is an excuse to demonize, isolate and discriminate, against people of a certain race.

[madhatters4]

@genuinlysensitive now we change the subject to avoid dealing with the issue at hand. basically you want to cry about being a white victim... that's fine but it doesn't mean that white privilege is real and not racist.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"privileges that may be afforded to white people that are not afforded to non-white people"
Okay so what would those things be and what would be the reason behind these white people getting being afforded these privileges?

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz examples of white priviliege as outlined by sociologists who convceived the idea
- a white person rarely has speak for their race. this is due to a black people more often than not being the minority in a situation and thus if there is a topic of race they may be asked to speak on behalf of the race
- a white person can walk into a drug store and figure they can find skin tone band-aids, make-up, etc that will more closely match their skin tones
- a white person will rarely ever have to be the sole white person in a group of people and know what it feels like to be the only member of your race in a group
- a white person doesn't more often than not will not have to wonder if they are pulled over by police, denied a loan or housing if their race played a part in the situation occurring

white privilege isn't necessarily about racism (it can be but certainly not necessarily). it's simple sociological issues

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"speak for their race"
Black people don't have to speak for their race and this only happens when people start racially collectivising people. I was getting at this before with your other example, *you* are seeing everything in terms of race and in projecting this out into the world you and everyone who reinforces the belief effectively create the perceived problem.

"skin tone band-aids"
Again, really only a problem if you're really hung up on race. This is the essenace of a non-issue -- at least it would be if you couldn't buy band-aids of varying skin colours, but also blue ones for people who work with food or one covered in cartoon characters for kids. This really is the silliest thing.

"sole white person in a group of people"
Again, really only a problem if you're really hung up on race.

"their race played a part in the situation"
Again, really only a problem if you're really hung up on race. Stop thinking people are out to get you and you don't have that worry.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Basically these are all internal problems. Largely trival things that only exists because some people are determined to see the world in terms of race and racism; personal issues.

These at best describe small advantages/disadvantages like being tall enough to reach things but having a hard time finding clothes big enough or fitting into cars. Trivial problems caused by simple differces in demographics. So now if you consider this stuff to be on the same level as what you call white privilege then white privilege is pointless to talk about and obfuscates from actual conversations about discrimination.

Let's consider what the purpose of using 'white privilege' would be. It is the catalogue of the worlds smallest problems, but it's called white privilege instead of 'tiny problems' in order to couch political and sociological discussion in the terms of the racial collectivist.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

It starts with trivial problems aka 'white privilege' and leads to white farmers being robbed of their land and murdered.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz you want to blame white privilege on people being robbed? seriously? so what would you blame black people being robbed on? black privilege? crime against people is a result of sociological privileges? not criminal or deviant behaviors

seriously? again a statement like that shows a complete lack of understanding of white privilege is.

[genuinlysensitive]

I am not changing the subject, nor trying to be a "victim"... " every demographic in society experiences some level of privilege due to being a member of that demographic" Remember writing that?
So back to your attempt to change the subject, "Where are all the people talking about "black privilege" "Asian privilege" etc? It is an excuse to demonize, isolate and discriminate, against people of a certain race.

[madhatters4]

@genuinlysensitive dude the question is about white privilege. is it about Asian privilege or black privilege? why is whtie privilege more discussed? because white people are victims of black privilege at a far less rate. but do we hear white men lamenting about affirmative action? sure as shit we do. i didn't try to change the subject i'm trying to simply educate you on the reality. you want to shape the reality rather than look at the reality. so really this is all a big waste of time because you aren't open to the reality but what you perceive things to be.
nevermind you are misinformed about what white privilege is. nevermind that i have informed of the reality of it based on those who studied and developed teh concept.

your reality is your reality. so don't ask questions you aren't interested in answers on. if you want to believe white privilege is racist then don't ask the question just believe it

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"you want to blame white privilege on people being robbed"
No, the other way around. I want to blame certain instances of white people being robbed and murdered on the misconception that is white privilege and/or related notions.

Similarly...

"so what would you blame black people being robbed on"
In instances where race was the motive then it was racism. In instances where someone just wanted their money I blame it on self-interest and a willingness for criminality.

"complete lack of understanding of white privilege is"
You lack an understanding of the conclusions of such lines of thinking.

"why is whtie privilege more discussed? because white people are victims of black privilege at a far less rate."
Because people *think* non-white people are being victimized by this thing they call white privilege. Their conception of it isn't necessarily the same as yours and neither is right anyway.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"those who studied and developed teh concept"
Bishops studied and developed Christianity, doesn't mean it has merit as ontological truth. IIRC the big push for the modern conception of white privilege was essentially just Peggy McIntosh's anecdotal interpretation of her life without any actual justification for anyone to consider it reality.

"so don't ask questions you aren't interested in answers on"
It's called being critical and you don't have the answers, otherwise you would have backed up you point with something. Don't pontificate your "answers" you aren't interested in questions on.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz you're rally trying to compare religion... the belief in things not seen versus a study in things that can be observed? measured?

and with that i'm done

[AllThatSweetJazz]

They're not observed, that's the problem and that's why the analogy is comparable. You even provided an example before showing how these things are not observed.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz show me where i said the concept of white privilege isn't based on observed behaviors. please

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Your "classic example" has no observable behaviour here besides someone yelling. You are presuming that many people presume these things about black people and white people.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz they actually do and it's well documented. it is observable that's how it's come to light as an example of white privilege. there have been studies and research done.
deny literally studies if you want dude i'm done arguing with your belief over researched realities... spent way too many days dealing with first your complete misunderstanding of white privilege and then arguing with you about something researched and verifiable vs religion and now the denial of something you didn't even know was considered white privilege because you DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WHITE PRIVILEGE WAS til a few days ago

it was my mistake trying to have an informed conversation with the un-informed or thinking someone would allow themselves to be informed on something they were un-informed about... that is my mistake.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I know what it is. But that doesn't matter. In any argument you have to define your terms and you should have to do regardless of what you think you or others know. It's just to make sure you're speaking the same language. Speaking in like terms forms the basis for a dialectic.

I entertained different interpretations of it just to have all my bases covers and basically every possible interpretation is wrong or irrelevant, that was my point.

So even if you believe it didn't know anything about it, that's literally irrelevant to the exercise of argumentation.

Your position hinges on having the data (~40 year old data at that apparently) but you don't show me anything. The burden of proof is on you, if you're going to throw up your hands against the criticism and leave without proving your point then fine, go ahead.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz there aren't interpretations of it. that is the false premise of your argument. there is only one concept of white privilege. if we are relying on interpretations then you are not dealign with the true concept of white privilege. examples of white privilege will change but the basic fundamental concept does not... it simply doesn't

so you defining a concept on your own is doing a disservice to understanding the true nature of white privilege.

the burden of proof is not on me as it has already been proven. the burden of proof is on you if you want to make up or glean various subjective interpretations of an objective concept

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Of course there's interpretations, everything has interpretations. Most people derive their definitions of words from use in context, even if they have a stated definition you can't assume everyone uses the same definition as you or that they would even derive the same meaning from a single definition.

You do a disservice to your argument when you don't define your terms clearly and assume everyone thinks the same.

You're making a claim in the affirmative and I'm being critical of that claim; when you make a specific claim about the nature of reality you have to demonstrate that to be taken seriously. That puts the onus on you. Just saying it's proven doesn't make it proven here, you're not showing me anything. The burden of (dis) proof shifts to me when you give me something to disprove (if the claim is falsifiable).

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz you simply are in denial and avoid looking at the research. look at the GD research instead of subscribing to things laypeople tell you. don't listen to me, don't listen to the peanut gallery. pick up a book or google the research done over 40 years ago

[AllThatSweetJazz]

What research? Show me. It's almost like you don't have it...

That's exactly what I'm not doing; listening to laypeople.

>Implying 40 year old research is relevant.

Again the onus was on you to prove your point, but if you're going just stomp your feet like a toddler and hope that if you keep saying it's true that people will believe you then fine. I did a google search, I looked at google scholar, checked some databases that my university gives me access to, there's a ton of stuff that works off the premise of white privilege but nothing that measures it. It's actually quite disturbing how many citations there are for the Peggy McIntosh article, that pathetic paper I had mentioned before.

If you're not going to point me to something specific then I'm done. I've got *actual* scientific articles I should be reading instead.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz i don't have the research. it's public information. i'm not your library dude. if you want the truth seek it. if you need to be fed information it is no wonder you have such misguided notions of things... and the reality is you don't want the truth otherwise you would have done the moderate work it took to seek it out. so i'm not going to waste another minute searching for information you will not read but find some way to disregard

seek out the facts rather than be feed b. s. from bias people

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I can't scour the entirety of human knowledge looking for it and it's your point to make anyway, it's much more sensible (and what every normal person does when trying to make an evidence based point) to provide a link or an author or at least specific keywords that lead to the information that makes your point.

If it's so easy to find then you'd have just dropped a link instead of replying multiple times. You don't have anything and anyone else reading this sees that. I checked multiple academic databases, more that I think you did.

"seek out the facts rather than be feed b. s. from bias people "
You should give it a try.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Muting this thread by the way.

[madhatters4]

@AllThatSweetJazz you don't have to scour the internet. literally type it in and the top few results will undoubtedly reference the sociological concept. you've muted the subject long before this. you muted the entire concept when you chose not to actually find out what it is but rather just believe the false ideas people tell you that they've concocted

[cherryphi82]

Guilt is a selfish emotion.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't understand how acknowledging that the advantages of maleness and "Whiteness" is racist. It isn't blaming everyone to acknowledge a built in bias by people of all colors and stripes. You do understand that just because a person is "Black" or Asian, that does not mean they also contribute to "White" privilege.

Or that women don't contribute to male supremacy in thoughts and deeds.

Now, I don't think that privilege is something that can easily identified and rooted out. But it is an obstacle, certain people have to be aware of. As in those who have to navigate it.

[genericname85]

you didn't understand my argument. i didn't say that "understanding and acknowledging" the privileges we have is the problem. in fact i litterally said that in my take so i assume you didn't read it cause i said exactly what you said just in other words...

i said that using the existing privileges in order to make people feel guilt for said privileges is dangerous, cause that opens up the posibility of coercing them into wrong behavior to their own disadvantage.

[genericname85]

you say that doesn't happen yet social justice warriors regularly formulate demands that are based on the assumtion of white guilt or male guilt.

[RolandCuthbert]

Maybe you didn't understand what you wrote.

"What the term "white privilege" does is holding everybody who is white accountable and making them individually GUILTY of what happened in the past,"

It is kind of hard talking to someone who isn't sure of their own position. So do you want to try restating your point or. . ?

I am just responding to the assertion that the term "White" privilege is racist.

So think about it for awhile and get back to me.

Thanks!

[genericname85]

i see what you mean though. i should have maybe pointed out more that white privilege is of course an objective and neutral fact and i think i have conveyed that in my take but the take should have incorperated the relativization that of course not always are those terms used wrongly to generate the "guilt" i'm speaking of but then this take would have been a little bit more boring, wouldn't it? ^^

[genericname85]

i should have pointed out that this is about the common "missues" of the terms but as i see them more commonly missued than properly used, i think my take is still fair.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, I saw the title, read the take and thought I understood your point. I mean you go into some detail about how this assertion is the purest form of racism. I don't really see where you talk about "White" privilege in any unique context. You just seem to think it is equivalent to other types of privilege.

I am not trying to tell you what you think. I am only talking about how the take was worded.

So if it is a misunderstanding, I am out.

See ya!

[genericname85]

it is not a missunderstanding. you see for example calling someone a "nigger" insults a person individually based on their ethnic group identity. cause it goes back to the slave days insinuating that you are black and therefore a worthless slave. this is discrimination based on ethnicity, which we call racism right?

in the same way we talk down to white people using the terminology "white supremacy" to insinuate that they are the still the evildoers that are at fault for the slavery back then and therefore again attacking and discriminating a person on an individual level based on their ethnic identity saying that they are white and therefore worthless.

same with gender. "Male white supremacy" insinuates that you are a man and therefore part of the gender which is "guilty" for patriarchy and all the disadvantages for women which comes with patriarchy, making those words sexist as they devaluate you based on your gender identity. (and also on your race as stated before)

[RolandCuthbert]

The n-word is considered to be a racist term. But I am sure that there are people totally ignorant of that term's history and could use it ignorantly. That would not be racist.

How do you talk down to a person who think they are better than you based upon their race? I don't get that at all. "White" supremacy is the ideology that "White" people are better than other groups based upon this weird, nebulous, shifting definition of "race".

There are those who are blatant believers of "White" supremacy and you can find them here at GaG. But beyond that, we have an issue in American society where "White" American cultural norms are assumed to be "objective" and "neutral", which they are not.

I am not saying that you need to be aware of this, but that people who are not "White" should be. And of course, there are many "Whites" who do not want to be at the center of everything and are quite happy just being normal regular human beings.

[genericname85]

Thinking you're better is not a good thing. That's how you look down on them.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think you understand what you are saying.

Do you know what the definition of racism is? Please look it up.

[genericname85]

ok listen dude i feel we both struggle with understanding each other so much to the point where we discussing kind of becomes futile and i feel like this takes too much effort for me to do. it's no fun for me so for that reason i will block you.
i guess it's in each others best interest at this point.
this is no aggression or hard feelings ok, just me being tired to deal with your opinion... not insinuationg that either your or my opinion is better if our opinions even are different at all... it's just so hard having your arguments twisted in weird ways while you feel like the other basically actually agree with what you just said xD... so i hope you don't mind too much that you don't get a chance to comment on this anymore. cheers.

[Kkaos]

I can't take this guy seriously when he literally uses a capital letter to say 'white'. LOL.

[grimtigress]

i can't even take people who use the words white privilege and male white supremacy seriously more than half the time, just because sjw's give the shit such a bad name and twisted definition. i thought your take was pretty objective and factual honestly. i'd think that most anyone can agree with you unless they're purposely refusing to by feeling like a victim or to feel a sense of self righteousness for supposedly defending group of people they consider victims

[genericname85]

Yes and may I add that those particular individuals often time are not representative of the majority they defend, hell not even a a part of them to begin with?

It's what happens when self victimization becomes a strategy of survical a strategy of generating income like the infamous Anita sarceesian

[genericname85]

excuse the typos. my auto correct hates me.

[StayInYourLane]

You can't take those people seriously because white people are the most pathetic and racist human beings on earth. Your racist race slaved and colonized countries to get you where you are! Since you're all so pathetic, you can't even own up to what your ancestors did. I as a black person wouldn't want any compensation from whites. However my respect for white people is deminishing the older I'm getting. You guys talk too much for what is worth. Pathetic. Nobody is asking you to give back everything you have but the least you can do is own up or shut up.

[grimtigress]

@StayInYourLane lol i'm native American if you're aiming for race victimization champ but i personally wouldn't owe you shit even if i wasn't. blacks are not the only race that's been enslaved, and your ancestors have even enslaved each other- granted they're not the first. you don't want anything? obviously not. but fuck it honestly you can play the blame game, you do you. i'm gonna go on and live my life without victimizing myself, so tata

[grimtigress]

it's all good i think we all get the typo shit lol but you're right entirely

[genericname85]

I already blocked this other guy xD he's a racist.

[RationalMale]

If we whites are accountable for the few white slave owners in the past, then blacks are equally accountable and punishable for slavery in Africa as well. That's just life.

Or to rephrase:

If I'm somehow accountable for crimes committed by some whites in ages past, then all blacks are just as accountable for the crimes in the past by some blacks. Perhaps vigilantes need to go start wrecking havoc in black neighborhoods for black on white crime. It makes just as much sense as what blacks whine about.

[genericname85]

i prefer not streching "accountability" to that extend ^^ but many commenters do.

[brennanhuff]

Even if there is a "privilege" what people don't get is it can be a double edged sword. They point it out like white men have it so much better. It might be better in some says, but what happens with some advantages is the burden. There's a higher expectation, and fact is most white men are not rich or high status, yet society places that expecation. There's a greater sense of failure and in many ways that's much harder for a white man to deal with than minorities. I don't believe minorities would like such pressure to succeed. It's one of those things with grass is greener on the other side when it might not. I think both sides have their cons and need both situations for both sides improved

[genericname85]

yes exactly envy never sees the downsides.

[Anonymous]

As a black guy I'm not going to say that there are some things white people experience (privilege) that black people don't. I don't see any justice in throwing it in people's faces every time a minority faces an injustice though. I don't think the concept is white privilege is racist. I do think people need to realize that not all white people are privileged. I also think that if we're giving out stuff to help people, we shouldn't jus tbe focussed on giving it to minorities but everyone who needs it. Whether it be scholarships, housing and food for the homeless whatever. Same thing goes for gender.

[genericname85]

yeah we should give it to those in need not those that thry the hardest to act as if they were the most oppressed.

[Opinion Owner]

I mean the reason why I say this is that most people (people being feminists) say that straiht white men are the most privileged in todays society and that all women ar emore oppressed by them. Did they forget that the Kardashians are a thing. I know myself I'm not highest up on the socio-economic list but I know straight white male friends who've been dealt worse hands in life than I have. Life sucks for everyone and while I agree we should fight racial injustices that doesn't mean treating those who don't face similar like shit.

[Reach500]

So you're saying that white privilege is merely a byproduct of racist atrocities committed in the past? And present day white people are innocent recipients of those privileges?
And the term "white privilege" is racist hate speech?
I disagree. The word "white privilege" just acknowledges that white people have certain preferential treatment because they are white. Yes, the disparity in treatment based on race, does have its roots in the past, but the past is not what keeps it going on through the present and into the future.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I disagree that white people get preferential treatment because they are white -- and without that it is just people being racist against white people.

[genericname85]

@AllThatSweetJazz white people have privilege. Acknowledging that is important. Pointing out that white people have privileges is not the issue here. But in the public debate, white privilege is used to create white guilt which is a racist tool of oppression.

[Reach500]

A racist tool of oppression? The reason the term is used in a critical way is that white privilege today is maintained through racism and oppression.

[genericname85]

what you're doing by that is pointing at white people, blaming them for exerting the perpetuation of racism and oppression, which is in fact also racism, cause while i am not doubting that some individuals of the white group does this i have to conquer the idea that this is a thing that all white people identify with doing. so we have a racial discrimination by saying "since you are white you are part of the group that practices racism and prevents privilege from getting to others, which is certainly not the case.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

You're on the path to racial discrimination the moment you start putting people into boxes by race and weighting it so heavily.

[Reach500]

I hear what you're saying. I don't think every single white person is guilty of perpetuating racism and oppression. And each person is judged by their own actions. But going back to white privilege, it does exist to the degree that it does because racism and oppression are being perpetuated on a huge scale.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"racism and oppression are being perpetuated on a huge scale"
... are they though? Because that's what I'm getting at; I don't really think it is like that in the west at least. Furthermore, is that perpetration so frequently benefiting people based on having white skin that it should be called white privilege and not just blanket bigotry coming from all sorts of people?

[taleswapper]

Assumes the conclusion. You are saying "white privilege" exists because hey; discrimination. but you don't factor in cultural, rather than racial effects. Most of the discrimination is against the predominate black culture, because it is so anti-white, anti-establishment, anti-dominant culture. It creates the very thing it deplores, especially by feeding you this nonsense to regurgitate in public.

[genuinlysensitive]

Legally, you can discriminate against white people for jobs, and education, and despite the grossly inaccurate statement white people aren't even the group that succeeds the most economically (asians fyi), you can also legally discriminate against men for jobs and education as well. So legally for decades not only has there been no preferential treatment of white people, they have been legally discriminated against, for decades. Not only do you provide zero evidence for "whites have preferential treatment because they are white" , or their "oppression" of others, reality is the exact opposite. If we truly want an equal society we need one where people are judged, as a wise man once said, "Not on the color of their skin but the content of their character."

[Good_Behavior]

The only problem with this is that it assumes that no one today is actually working to maintain white privilege. The moment we add in the idea that white privilege (corrected to: "Tyranny of the Majority") is not just some historical boon that has yet to wear off but instead is still something that people strive to maintain this house of cards falls flat.

I would have a tough time believing that no white people think that white supremacy is a good idea. That's all it takes for this to perpetuate is The Majority to believe that they should stay The Majority and then to do something to ensure they stay The Majority. And this is true of all cultures so it isn't really tied directly to "white people" nor is "white privilege" actually racist, it's classist, and it also isn't a term that refers to "all" white people, just those in Majority Power, of which most are indeed White for various sociological and psychological reasons.

[genericname85]

Well tyranny and making it so that the majority of people is favored rather than a minority when it comes to certain decisions are different. That's just the dilemma of living in a diverse society that can not be solved.

[Good_Behavior]

That's what White Privilege is. So you do have to choose a stance. It can't be both a "burden inflicted" and opportunistic mongering.

[genericname85]

you have to draw a difference there. accepting the existence of privilege is not equal to actively perpetuating it.

[genericname85]

or more specifically: actively "malevolently" perpetuating it.

[Good_Behavior]

Malevolence never even enters the equation. There's nothing malevolent about acting in your own favor especially at the social level.

I think there comes a point where "It isn't my fault I was born white!" just loses luster. Just about every prison system on the planet tends to find minorities "more guilty" than those of The Majority for the same crime for instance.

I mean how much more active can you get? Obviously there are a lot of real social problems tied to this with infringements abounding from profiling (and I am not just referring to police, employment and housing/community as well) to selective distribution of social goods (inheritance and sociological disbursement issues, see education quality in minority neighborhoods) and general suppression (historical editing with sensational media and downplaying importance) against minorities.

"I just showed up and it was like this, not my problem" as an attitude is a problem.

[genericname85]

the term "white privilege" insinuates that you use those privileges like for example being less likely going to prison at the expense of those others so that they are more likely to go to prison, which is of course a foolishly wrong accusation, yet that happens on a day to day basis by using the term "white privilege" it's not often use to objectively state the advantages you have. it's used to make you feel bad about it and if you don't, then you are right and should oppose those that ty to do that.

[Good_Behavior]

You do use those privileges. For instance collusion with knowledge that due to wealth and social status you are less likely to get into trouble. You know the #metoo movement? That IS white privilege in action; men with great power, esp. people like Weinstein, completely abused their power against a minority with the knowledge that they would fundamentally get away with it. And they did for a long time.

Also corporate crimes are often given smaller sentences and this is greatly influenced by the power and wealth of the individuals alongside things like collusion and insider trading being rife within the system often, again, between connections that don't just happen to be of The Majority.

The number of cases in the last 20 years where a "white" or "rich" (or both) person has done something to a minority and simply walked away with minimal sentencing isn't some obscenely tiny number. Abuse of power is active all the time.

[Good_Behavior]

This is of course the point where I importantly state that White Privilege is not a problem of the pauper. The average person isn't really going to be ABLE, not necessarily unwilling, to use the privilege actively. Besides more basic things like being able to walk around at night without garnering suspicion (which is actually again the abuse of The Majority) in any neighborhood you want there's not much there for the average person to use.

[genericname85]

dude... you're throwing soooo many things in one bag here that it is a lot of work to get it out of the bag again and put it into the bags it belongs...

"you do use those privileges..." yes that's what i said in my take.

#meetoo is a movement made to bring awareness to the fact that sexual harrassment and assault does happen in every level and sphere of our society. in fact it is a movement without racial or gender focus so it doesn't fit the discussion we're having right now.

The corporate argument is an example for individual cases in which people abuse their privilege, i agree and we should accuse them of missusing their privilege, not put every white person on the level of those corporate criminals by means of putting them in the same group of "whites"...

the white person that enjoys their privilege to not be wrongly accused for a crime is not the same as the white person that uses the lower chance of being punished to commit crimes.

[Good_Behavior]

Social issues are complex things. First, I shouldn't have used the word "You" because I am not talking about you, the person or writer, because you actually likely don't have access to that much power or prestige so, no, not "you" in the direct sense but "You" as a reference to The Majority. So that was a misspeaking error on my part.

"#meetoo is a movement made to bring awareness to the fact that sexual harrassment and assault does happen in every level and sphere of our society. in fact it is a movement without racial or gender focus so it doesn't fit the discussion we're having right now."

You are very wrong about this. That's like saying #blacklivesmatter is about general police brutality. #metoo is specifically geared towards women and is significantly older than the modern happenstance. It existed before hashtags. This isn't a new movement. Regardless it is actually a very important standard towards what wealth and Majority standing afford you.

[Good_Behavior]

"The corporate argument is an example for individual cases in which people abuse their privilege, i agree and we should accuse them of missusing their privilege, not put every white person on the level of those corporate criminals by means of putting them in the same group of "whites"..."

That's not true at all again because it isn't a lot of one-off random cases. Collusion requires an entire network to work. I know this is complex because even scholars debate this all day as to how much of it "counts" but to say that it's just a random sampling or that wealth and power don't lead to increased odds for criminal activity is kind of like saying people don't have egos. That's equivalent to trying to separate money from power.

[Good_Behavior]

"the white person that enjoys their privilege to not be wrongly accused for a crime is not the same as the white person that uses the lower chance of being punished to commit crimes."

And this leads to the point: White Privilege is not about being white. The term itself can be and should be replaced with Tyranny of the Majority because that is exactly what it is. For most people, like yourself included, there's really no gain for you. You get a bunch of random passive and usually mundane boons.

For those who actually have the ability to access White Privilege, that is, the ACTUAL Majority power in society, this is totally different. It's comparing apples to zucchini. You can't take something like this personally and really it isn't so far reaching that it makes sense to try. It has nothing to do with skin color so much as societal power and fundamentally Rich, White Males are generally the most powerful individuals in the country at this time.

This is an acknowledgement of that.

[genericname85]

oh so that's why terry crews is part of the #metoo movement, cause he was sexualle harrassed by a high level hollywood manager... he must be a woman then. sorry dude i lost interest in the discussion with you. if we can't agee on objective facts, every further discussion becomes pointless.

[Good_Behavior]

Why am I not surprised that your only foot to stand on is non sequitur to your point and an exception to the rule? Honestly this probably ended 14 hours ago.

[Guanfei]

Those 2 notions are totally stupid, racist, sexist and hateful, but they work.
See how it works well in the US. Throw a white privilege or a male privilege, and here you go, you can ask for free stuff and to be privileged yourself, like those "affirmative actions" that are nothing more than privileges for black people and discriminations against white.
And see who use these cards? You'll notice how racists and sexists they are. And I mean, litteraly racists and sexists, not the so called "racism" and "sexism" as they use it.
Those who use the race and sex cards hate white people and male in general. They don't even hide it. But since they're "oppressed" people, no one dare to stop them.

[genericname85]

yeah pc culture gets out of hand with their leftist extremist ideolog. people don't even put up a fight. they just submit into the guilt and accept the punishment.

[HereIbe]

POOOOOOOR little snowflake! You're SUCH A VICTIM! OOOOOOh, you're SOOOOO Downtrodden and Oppressed!

Suck it up, buttercup. Put on your big boy pants and learn what it's like to actually be a man instead of a whiny little bitch.

Here are some hints:
Moron says, "You have white privilege."
Grown man says "So?"
Moron says, "It's bad to have white privilege, so you are bad."
Grown man says "Do you have a point?"
Moron says "Stop waving your white privilege in my face!"
Grown man says "No, really, do you have a point or can I just start ignoring you and do adult things?"

See, very simple. They want to make more of an issue of it, they'll find out how a real pro does "Can't give a fuck about your sill-ass complaints even if I tried."

[Anonymous]

im a black woman and i wholeheartidly agree. ITS ANNOYING AS FUCK listening to blacks "worship" whites, while talking down on them at the same time. they think their white skin is magical, and their life and communities are sooooo easy. but its FALSE, and racist to think somebody got somewhere ONLY because of skin color and not consider other factors. for example: the stereotype that whites can get in anywhere and only have good credit because of white priviledge. is RACIST. a black person can get anywhere and have good credit IF THEY PAY THEY BILLS ON TIME , whites do not have good credit because they skin color, its because they are financially responsible and have to work to pay bills JUST LIKE BLACKS, so what priviledge?

[StayInYourLane]

You can't take those people seriously because white people are the most pathetic and racist human beings on earth. Your racist race slaved and colonized countries to get you where you are! Since you're all so pathetic, you can't even own up to what your ancestors did. I as a black person wouldn't want any compensation from whites. However my respect for white people is deminishing the older I'm getting. You guys talk too much for what is worth. Pathetic. Nobody is asking you to give back everything you have but the least you can do is own up or shut up.

[genericname85]

you sire are a racist.

[Guanfei]

Your ancestors enslaved your "brothers" themselves. Where do you think slaves came from? Your own ancestors, since you're probably in the US, were captured, enslaved and sold by black people to white people. That's how it worked.
And since you want to blame someone for slavery, you can start with Africans. And arabs by the way, who did it too, for a longer time, on a bigger scale and more violently. Didn't see any black people throwing a tantrum at arabs, I wonder why.

[Kaneki05]

Yea we all have privileges just like how everyone has money some have more than others and some people complain about it is unfair they have lots of money but then there is those who accepted it a make do with what the got i know which one is better and smarter

[10dsw]

I'm a tall successful educated white dude and I'll be honest, I've worked hard for everything I got. Rather than partying most days I spent my alone time learning 4 programming languages on top of keeping up with my school curriculum. It gets super annoying when people think I have it easier because I'm white. Has life been a bit easier for me? Maybe. But I also worked super hard all my life.

[10dsw]

The only "privilege" I got so far was that it's pretty easy to bed an Asian woman. But that's only because Asian women fetishize white guys a lot and I live in an area where 50% of the population is Asian. And even that's a questionable privilege as not every single guy loves Asian women.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Basically I don't believe white privileged exists, so yeah it's just racist.

I see a lot of people falling into the trap of accepting the existence of it despite trying to say it's not something to feel guilty about -- the racial collectivists have got you on the hook you phewls. Treat people as individuals.

[genericname85]

White privilege does exist in pretty much every Western culture. Acknowledging that is one side of the problem. Not feeling guilty about it is as important.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I don't think it does exist. As far as I'm aware there's been no measurement of it, we can't see it, people just seem to acquiesce that it's there. It's like people only don't feel guilty about it if they acknowledge that it's there; the acknowledgment alleviates that pinch of guilt they did have.

[genericname85]

well there are some measurements of it that are objectively quantifyable. for example are white people more likely to be taken for a high education/high qualification job than any other ethnic person in western society assuming the exact same qualification. there are more tangible examples like that but i agree that privilege is also a mostly intangible concept that manifests in social interactions.

that pinch of guilt that you speak of is the exact problem my take tries to sort out.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I'd want to see the research. Did those white people just happen to get that qualification from a more prestigious university? Did they perhaps have other activities or history on their resumes that show worth to an employer? Did they simply conduct themselves better in an interview? Better references?

Even IF it's there, it's so far removed from the consequential factors that it's irrelevant. It's like background radiation or the wind: How often does a gentle breeze cause you to lose control of your car?

And to go so far as to believe you're observing such a thing all across western society takes some hubris.

[genericname85]

i don't think that making a statement about societies as a social scientist has anything to do with hybris.
i'm not responsible to educate you on this. and i'm not willing to research the soruces that prove the argument as it is a scientifically pretty well established fact. it's not my personal observation or my own scientific finding mind you.

so if you're interested in that, go educate yourself on this. if not, fair enough. it's your decision but as long as you don't, we won't be able to have a debate.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I've adequately educated myself, I've been plugged into this dialectic quite intensely for about 3 years now. It IS NOT an "established fact," it a premise taken as fact by the guilt-ridden, those fearful of moralizing bullies or people who simply don't know any better. There's no scientific basis for it, just a potent narrative.

You yourself pointed out that there's a problem with attributing *individual* guilt based on a judgement of a perceived group/collective and how that is racism. I would go so far as to say that *any* attribution of trait to an individual based on the perception that they belong to a racial group is racism. Furthermore, basing it on any perceived group identity is one form of bigotry or another.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

This is why you're on the path to racial discrimination the moment you start putting people into boxes by race and weighting it so heavily. Even though you might disagree with the conclusions of white privilege as other have conceived of it, you're still accepting the linguistic and conceptual building blocks for racial discrimination.

[acooke-13]

I 100% agree! Good take

[genericname85]

thanks :)

[StayInYourLane]

White people are the most pathetic and racist human beings on earth. Your racist race slaved and colonized countries to get you where you are! Since you're all so pathetic, you can't even own up to what your ancestors did. I as a black person wouldn't want any compensation from whites. However my respect for white people is deminishing the older I'm getting. You guys talk too much for what is worth. Pathetic. Nobody is asking you to give back everything you have but the least you can do is own up or shut up.

[taleswapper]

@StayInYourLane Wow... A racist, calling others racists based on the color of their skin. Pot, meet kettle.

[acooke-13]

@StayInYourLane I'm NOT taking responsibility for what my ancestors did years before I was even born. I had absolutely fuck all to do with it, therefore I'm not owning up to jack shit. I am NOT racist, but you sir, are. Fuck off you prick and 'stay in your lane' :)

[acooke-13]

Of course I think what happened is sad and completely disgusting, but it wasn't my fault or my generations fault.

[TheUglyMan]

Think of it like skyrim different races have different perks. I have no problem in acknowledging whites have certain perks that other races dont. But other races have other perks whites dont. The issue i have is when people take it too far and say societally whites are on the top , society glorifies us, its "easier" to be white etc..

[genericname85]

Well in certain aspects it sure is easier to be white. Just like in Skyrim certain things are easier with the respective race. It's inherent to the race but not the races fault.

[TheUglyMan]

Yes true in some instances it's easier to be other races. What level you on in skyrim?

[Anonymous]

Every man has male privilege, even if they are the most equal person on Earth. That doesn't make them a bad person. It makes them a bad person if they think they deserve it because they are male.
Same goes to white privilege.
We aren't guilty unless we think we deserve it or we don't try to prevent it.

[genericname85]

I agree. Therefore it's not valid to use it to frame them as bad people which is so often done by sjw and media.

[genuinlysensitive]

These are just excuses to be sexist and racist, to discriminate against men and whites in education and for jobs.

[Kiran04]

Of course the idea of "white privelege" is racist. Only complete idiots can't see that. Just like the idea that all men are sexist is in and of itself sexist. Again, only morons can't see that. Sadly, there are a lot of morons in the US right now.

[genericname85]

well @RolandCuthbert doesn't see that. maybe you can explain that to him. i give up xD

[RolandCuthbert]

It is not even a response. All men are not sexist.

But depending on the society, all men including me, can benefit from male privilege.

You guys are not attempting to think. So why bother mentioning me?

[genericname85]

@RolandCuthbert you're constantly coming up with stuff that i didn't say to disagree with. that's the annoying thing about you. you go out of your way to missinterpret things i said or just insinuate stuff i did not say. it's irritating.

nobody said anything about all men being sexist and nobody denies the fact that we do benefit from said privileges xD

[RolandCuthbert]

I am beginning to wonder if you are capable of rational thought.

So let me give you the premise. Your friend compared "White" privilege to saying that it is like the idea that all men are sexist. Well, we know that all men are not sexist. We also know that all "White" people do not think themselves racially or culturally superior to anyone.

But male privilege exists.

"White" privilege exists.

There. So simple, even you should be able to digest it.

[keenmind2007]

Holding the past against someone is clearly saying that we have not yet moved on. There are privileges offered to every race and gender that others do not have. It's the order of things and clearly not racism.

[Anonymous]

Every group has some kind of privilege, but it's only acceptable to beat white people over the head with it. There are people that literally believe white people should pay reparations for their privilege. That's when it becomes a problem.