WHAT IN THE WORLD can you guys possibly be so offended by with that Gillette commercial from last year?

[WhiteSteve]

There’s a question I tried to respond to, but I’ve apparently been blocked by the poster. Must have given him some *ahem* “Flak” somewhere along the line. C’est la vie🤷‍♂️ If you aren’t smart enough to debate with me, I guess that’s your best available option. But this question was basically dancing on Gillette’s grave after they took a financial hit in response to the commercial, as if this was poetic justice, and not a sickening confirmation of a lot of disgusting attitudes that I feared existed.

But I honestly have not been as perplexed by anything in such a long time as I was by the negative response to the “The Best Men Can Be” ad by Gillette Razors. I heard all the blowback and I was like “whoa...this must be terrible.” Then I watched it, and I kept waiting to be offended, but I was just like “welp....these guys are right as my jerk hand.”

If you missed the ad, here it is....

Before the typical blue anon bullshit starts cascading in, I am not an SJW, a feminist, a cuck or soyboy or any of your other stupid, not-at-all-clever little barbs you learned to use to chum the Internet waters for bashing anything remotely progressive that basically serve as a veritable “I’m an idiot” tattoo on your forehead. I do not consider myself liberal, or conservative for that matter, or any other dumb and unnecessary label we started saddling each other with. I’m simply a guy with two eyes, two ears, and a brain, to take in and process information. So everything I say comes from a very neutral place.

SO....what exactly is the fucking problem? This was not an attempt to paint all men with the same brush and say that all of us are terrible people. Frankly, you’re extremely unintelligent if that was your takeaway from it, if you ask me.

What I saw was some REAL behaviors, by SOME men (i.e. don’t necessarily take it so fucking personally), that I think do need to be addressed. Obviously anything on video is designed to be acted out to be impactful, to really tell a story in a matter of a few seconds. So obviously this will deal in extremes, but as the viewer, there’s an expectation on your end to understand a very simple concept: sometimes things get a little exaggerated for visual effect. It’s really not complicated to wrap your mind around.

All that said, I want to ask you guys, and gals too...what about this video was incorrect, in terms of what SOME men do? Do SOME men catcall or sexually harass women? YES. Do SOME men bully or act violently? YES, in fact, that’s the aspect of this video that’s probably a shot at me.

Think of the imagery in the video, there are a few scenes that stick out. Two guys at a pool party trying to record video of two visibly uncomfortable bikini-clad girls, and a guy steps in and says “guys, knock it off.” What kind of a piece of shit do you need to be to have a problem with that? Same for the hot chick that walks by, and the one overexcited dude that looks like he’s about to make an inappropriate approach, and his buddy says “whoa, not cool.” Again, shit I have seen happen in real life. I had to throw guys out of the bar I used to work at for shit like that almost weekly. Again, to have a problem with that, you’re a piece of shit, and that’s not really debatable.

What else? The kid being chased by a pack of bigger bullies, and then that deplorable son of a bitch steps in stops the beating. Or the clip of a YouTube video of a real street fight between two teenage dudes, and an adult walks in, breaks up the fight, and gives them a little lecture, telling them “come on...y’all almost MEN!”, and gets them to shake hands and walk away. I mean, what a fuckin’ cunt those couple of guys were, eh?🙄😒

We don’t need to break it all down, but the fact is, I have witnessed all of the exhibited behaviors in the reality of my own life, so it’s ABSOLUTELY NOT inaccurate, if that’s your argument, you can’t do shit for me but stuff that in a sack and hide it somewhere in a remotely-located ravine where it will never be found. Come at me with a LEGITIMATE counter-argument . And if you endorse any of those behaviors, you’re not a very decent person, and there’s no legitimate argument to even be had there.

The longtime slogan of Gillette has been “The Best A Man Can Get”, and this was obviously a socially conscious spin on that. Again, it said right in the narration that SOME men are doing right, but it’s not enough of them, and it’s ALL of our responsibilities, AS MEN, to police the dickheads out there who do shit like that. How the fuck can you POSSIBLY take issue with that?

I was very disappointed to see the negative reaction from men. It’s had a negative impact on the business, although I think a lot of that is also due to the emergence of cheaper online shaving companies, plus the current mainstream trend of beards, requiring less shaving, less strokes per shave, and the razors don’t need to be replaced as often. But there’s definitely a lot of men who seemingly couldn’t handle being called out for shitty behavior, or thought it was somehow audacious to be asked to maybe tell your idiot buddy doing said behaviors to chill his shit the fuck out. I mean, that is just MIND-BLOWINGLY, STUNNINGLY ignorant.

So to me, if you boycott Gillette, I can only take that as: “I don’t respect women, they don’t deserve decent treatment, and I am completely comfortable with being a piece of shit.” I would love to hear your arguments to the contrary, but I’m preemptively already out on the idea that this was somehow an ugly and inaccurate portrayal of the worst examples of male behavior in our society, because I have witnessed every single one of those incidents in real life, multiple times in most cases, and I’m guilty of the more violent stuff myself, and that’s where I can probably be charged to be better. Are we really that immature that we can’t simply say “hey guys...we can be better than this boorish and disrespectful behavior, and those of us already doing right need to hold the others accountable.” Like what kind of sick fuck seriously has a problem with that message? So if you’re cool with your mothers and sisters and daughters and wives/girlfriends being treated that way, I cordially invite you to buy from Harry’s or Dollar Shave Club or Bic....but when you look into that mirror to shave, don’t you DARE say the person looking back at you is at all a decent human being.

Thanks for reading, and go fuck yourself, if applicable.

[JimRSmith]

Cards on the table, in response to these adverts, I've stopped buying Gillette, and moved to Wilkinson Sword, which also appears to be a better product.

I think you and I interpreted the messages differently. I see where you're coming from, though.

What pissed me off is what I interpret as an assumption that men, in general, are guilty of this kind of behaviour, and require instruction from some 'woke' marketing to sort themselves out. I resent that, and am not willing to give them more of my money, just so they can virtue signal and preach at me.

However, you've explained your interpretation very well, and I don't think it's necessarily incorrect, either.

Another reason I took offence at Gillette about this, is that I used to work with Gary Coombe, the person who is ultimately in charge of all of this, and I strongly doubt his sincerity on this issue. I've been in a car with him, with one or two other people, and I saw what he said, and how he acted in private. I'd go as far as to call it deeply cynical, and it's quite satisfying that it's apparently blowing up in his face.

[WhiteSteve]

This is GAG, man, take your reasonably and politely articulated disagreements and fire them into space😂

Yeah, so I guess we’re just not in accord in our interpretations, and we can probably save ourselves some wheel-spinning there.

VERY interesting about Gary Coombe though, and I can absolutely believe that some big wig at a major corporation is, at best, insincere, and at worst, a piece of shit like the rest of ‘em.

So I definitely can appreciate the angle of this maybe being hollow from a corporate standpoint, I guess I just felt like whether it’s a company’s ad or just a PSA with no profit behind it, the message was reasonable, necessary, and save for some artistic hyperbole to make short, punchy 1.5-2 second clips of behaviors to relay the situation they’re trying to portray. I guess I’ve just seen so many of these behaviors exhibited in my life, like in the 90s in my neighborhood, older guys would literally run up, wind up, and slap a girl’s ass if she had on tight jeans, and then she’d be showered with “sluts” and “bitches” from the whole group when she’d quite reasonably get upset about it. That was pretty fucking routine. As I detailed, I had to throw guys out of the bar pretty regularly for making women uncomfortable. Almost every frat party I attended had some kid trying to make an amateur Girls Gone Wild. In my younger days, I was with a group that chased a kid down, who had absolutely acted like an asshole, but we legitimately almost killed the guy. I’m not proud of that. I just thought the points made in the ad were all pretty valid and consistent with experiences I’ve had or witnessed in my 40 years. And I guess I just agree with the idea that, by and large, we can be better people, as men, and it is up to the good ones to police the bad ones.

All fair points on your...

[WhiteSteve]

... end though, man, appreciate the insights and respectful approach as always👊 Excuse me while I go recover from my shock and disillusionment that a major business might be full of shit😱🤣

[SkipStop]

You obviously don't understand the main message of the ad. It was created by a feminist / misandrist (someone who hates men). And it's purpose was to portray all men as evil and violent rapists. It even painted little boys as violent. It's an attack on masculinity which is a biological trait all boys are born with. So to say that masculinity is toxic is painting every male as a bad person who is only on earth to cause harm.
Feminism = Misandry. Don't turn into one of them because you will be attacking yourself and all your male friends and family members.
I never bought Gillette products and never will.
#BoycottGillette

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, well, I feel like you’re thinking in extremes, first off. Second, I’ve watched this over and over again and I just can’t see what is misandrous about this. These ARE bad behaviors exhibited by SOME men, and I feel like AS MEN, it’s up to us to either stop said behaviors if we do them, or hold other men accountable for theirs. I think that’s a very admirable message. I don’t think it’s purpose was to portray ALL men as anything. In fact, it literally SAYS it in the narration that it’s only some men doing this. So you really can’t say it painted men that way unless you didn’t pay full attention. The point is that “some” is still too many, and we need to handle this as men, in house. I just don’t understand why we would ever defend these behaviors that DO happen, I’ve witnessed them personally, this isn’t made up from thin air.

[wittymilf]

The message is great, but I feel uncomfortable that such a significant and empowering message is being used as a marketing tool. I know that type of thing happens and it’s great that someone has decided to say something... but the fact that I know they jumped on the band wagon for the sake of sales and marketing just feels slightly distasteful.

[WhiteSteve]

Definitely a fair point. Hopefully it was genuine in nature... but this is a large corporation we’re talking about, sooo... 😂

[wittymilf]

No thanks, hate online marketing campaigns passionately. The way followers are encouraged to say it works, to suck in other valnurable people.

[MzAsh]

Apparently their products aren’t so good for sensitive skin after all. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you, Steve. You are an awesome man! 🖤

[WhiteSteve]

knowyourmeme.com/photos/276747-supa-hot-fire

[WhiteSteve]

No problem. Honestly not even in it for the white knighting lmao, I appreciate the thanks, but this is just some “call it how I see it” shit, I’ll switch this to anonymous if people want to take that angle on me, haha

[morrowlow]

weeeeee! steve you're an awesome man. steve you got your reward

[MzAsh]

Don’t be jealous.

[WhiteSteve]

@morrowlow That’s not why I wrote this, man. You can tell by how I LITERALLY FUCKING WROTE THAT IN THIS VERY THREAD, holy fuck, guy🙄 Reading comprehension isn’t a strong suit for you, is it?

[dangerDoge]

I believe the issue with the Gillette ad comes through more so the implications of it. On the surface, yes, it has a few positive messages-- like "don't sexually harass or bully others." However, I believe the ad implies the majority of men are the types of people to sexually harass and bully or be ok with it general. (e. g. Look at the "boys will be boys" part, the laughing at the skit, the boardroom. It's larger groups of guys acting as perpetrators.) It likewise implies that all men are accountable for the actions of the few. It addresses “men,” which I interpret to be as a group. Going a step further, most men have a moral compass, contrary to the ad's main message. If a guy is going like "what I actually thinks she's trying to say" and flat out disregarding someone's opinion, he's being quite rude. It's not his problem as a guy though-- it's his issue as a person. Like yeah— there are issues of the ad that are legitimate asshole things, like the recording part you mentioned. It’s more so the delivery (and the fact it’s being used to sell razors etc. seems really pandering already).

If I had to think of an equivalent for women, it'd be like if a company had an ad that said "Leaving people broken hearted and out of money. Is this the best a women can get? *shows women with divorce papers and great sums of money, laughing with several women friends. A man broken hearted crying in the corner* It's been going on far too long. Hey all you women, let's not be 'gold diggers.' You can't laugh it off or ignore it. Kids are growing up watching y'all and they're influenced by any of your gold digging actions. Sure-- a portion of y'all aren't gold diggers, but I'm talking about the rest."

Considering the vast majority of women are not gold-diggers, it'd certainly infuriate people if the ad seemed to imply so. It'd be an offensive ad for certain. If you look at the video of the ad on the surface, you may see something similar to what you're describing-- stopping someone from gold digging. I mean-- what's wrong with that? But the overall ad would be poor because of what it implies.

The reason people are saying the Gillette ad is 'propaganda' is likely because it feeds into a mentality that men are naturally raised to be societally corrupt and impulsive. In other words, it's the mentality that men look at women as inferior or are out to discriminate or look down upon women. (Aka the idea of "toxic masculinity")

Another reason that the ad is getting more hate is because of how Gillette is responding to people disliking it. They're removing negative comments and criticisms and pinning the very few positive comments.

To be clear, I'm NOT saying we should ignore sexual harassment or any of the things listed in the Gillette ad. However, the Gillette ad does a very poor way of addressing it.

[WhiteSteve]

I can understand all that. I guess I just didn’t take that same impression away, that it was an indictment of MOST men. I thought the narration made it pretty clear, at least to me, that it wasn’t saying all men are like this, it was saying that we should all take more responsibility for the overall culture, whether we’re offenders, or idle bystanders, it’s charging us to do more, and I personally agree with that. I would say that male culture is a little slow to adapt to where I feel like we should be, but maybe I just spend too much time on here with some of these yahoos that just are angry at how their life has panned out and are lashing out at randos on the Internet, haha.

As far as a woman’s version goes, I know you were describing a hypothetical situation, but if Lady Bic wants to come out with something like that, I’m totally cool with that, ladies have their internal issues in their own camp that could stand to be checked. I don’t think today’s climate would really embrace that as well, not that the guy version was embraced well, but you know what I’m saying.

I did not know about the comment deleting and all that. If you’re going to make a bold statement, stand by it. So if we’re accusing Gillette of being insincere and pandering, that’s certainly up for discussion. I just feel like most detractors I’ve heard are more coming from the angle of just attacking the commendable part of the message. Again, maybe I’m just on here way too much and I’m losing sight of what normal men are like, because we have some DOOZIES on here lmao.

In any case, I appreciate the thoughtful opinion as always, my dude👊😎

[ThisAndThat]

The Jezebel IE Jillette ad is slamming men and targeting white men especially with their feminist MeToo propaganda. Jezibellette is only a crumb in the landslide pushing of men into MGTOW. Prophesied more than 2000 years ago, you can't deny it's the work of feminism is the work of satan or the direction we hare heading in at light speed literally seeing Prophecy unfold right before our eyes. Great judgment is coming to Babylon IE the west.

Isaiah 4:1

In that day seven will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”

Isaiah 13:12

A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw: Raise a banner on a bare hilltop, shout to them; beckon to them to enter the gates of the nobles. I have commanded those I prepared for battle; I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath those who rejoice in my triumph. Listen, a noise on the mountains, like that of a great multitude! Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together! The Lord Almighty is mustering an army for war. They come from faraway lands, from the ends of the heavens the Lord and the weapons of his wrath— to destroy the whole country. Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. a Because of this, all hands will go limp, every heart will melt with fear. Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant and humiliate the pride of tyrants. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the wrath of the LORD of Hosts on the day of His burning anger.…

Like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd, they will all return to their own people, they will flee to their native land. Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated. See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold. Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants, nor will they look with compassion on children. Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the pride and glory of the Babylonians, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah. She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations; there no nomads will pitch their tents, there no shepherds will rest their flocks. But desert creatures will lie there, jackals will fill her houses; there the owls will dwell, and there the wild goats will leap about. Hyenas will inhabit her strongholds, jackals her luxurious palaces. Her time is at hand, and her days will not be prolonged.

[morrowlow]

well first off! only an idiot piece of Sh** would write something like this. i say idiot because you didn't understand their implication. they start the ad by mentioning bullying and metoo then they show average men as if average men who never do those things are to be blamed. they show 2 little boys wrestling and act like that's the most horrible thing. guys like you don't understand how important that kind of competition and self expression is for little boys because you were obviously raised with a certain ambiguity regarding your gender. then they show men all lined up repeating "boys will be boys" like a bunch of robots as if they don't even understand what they're saying and need a bunch of pussies show them the right way. if this ad showed harvey weinstein instead of an average guy i tell you no one would have had a problem but the fact that they target average guys like me is too harsh and uncalled for. my other problem is that women are not perfect and their shitty behavior hurts men a lot but why is it that it's never okay to call out toxic female behavior but it's perfectly fine to take a huge dump on the whole male gender. but nothing pisses me off more than seeing nancies like yourself because it shows that we, REAL MEN, are hated by rug munchers like you in addition to all women. but i guess you have to be STRAIGHT to take offence at this ad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyczkAkM2Y

[WhiteSteve]

Ahhhh, this was the response I knew was coming. I actually fit a ton of profiles of masculinity. I played full contact football into my 30s, and I was a motherfucking psychopath out there. I was a bouncer for 10+ years. I used to get in fights off the hook when I was younger, and I literally almost killed a guy once, which I’m not proud of, but I don’t think anyone who witnessed it thought I was a pussy at that moment, and they certainly wouldn’t have said it to me at the time. As far as being a rug muncher... I sure was. You’d probably shit your pants at a few of the girls I’ve pulled, that was always kind of my “thing”, bud. You’re bringing a knife to a gun fight in that particular battle. And who’d have thought... treating women respectfully and having normal and healthy attitudes towards them go a long way in getting you laid, just saying. I know the men of GAG are largely anything but normal and just come on here to spew vitriol at random women in effigy of all the girls they know who don’t fuck them, but I mean, let’s be reasonable here. I think you think I’m at home shaving my legs and watching The View, and that just couldn’t be farther from who I am.

I’m simply a guy who had a mother, has a girlfriend, has female cousins, and I worry/worried about them out there, because I know a lot of dudes are pieces of shit. I didn’t need Gillette to teach me that, I already know from being alive for 40 years and just using my eyes and ears. Of course it’s not everyone, but they’re out there, and the rest of us good guys, “the average men”, should step up and tell the idiots that that behavior isn’t ok, that was the whole fucking point of the ad, it was even said in the narration, so you can’t really make the argument that it painted men all the same. I mean, you’re telling me I’M being a pussy, while simultaneously whining that an ad was “too harsh” on men... I mean... sack up, bro. Is that what...

[WhiteSteve]

... being manly is about?

I’d entertain the idea of an ad that calls women out for their shit, I’m not saying they’re above reproach, but that’s just deflecting, that’s a totally separate conversation for another day. When you get called out, you should actually try objectively examining yourself, not just be like “well what about what (insert person/demographic) does/do?” That just feels like confirming what you’ve been indicted of, that you can’t take a few minutes to be like “hmm, how can I and others be better?” We’ll never get anywhere if we’re closed off to self-improvement. If Lady Bic wants to make that ad for whatever your mad on the internet at women for, I say go for it, women aren’t perfect. But save that for another day and let’s talk about men today. If and when the ad for the women comes out, we can sit down and talk about that, but let’s not confuse the two issues, keep them compartmentalized. If you don’t think women will have that commercial made for them, we can talk about it that day too, but that’s another MyTake for another day. But if women are saying “this is an issue I face and it makes me very uncomfortable”, you kind of have to take that at face value, not dismiss it and act like it’s completely fabricated or not an issue. They aren’t asking you if it’s a problem, they’re TELLING YOU, and that’s simply disrespectful. Again, I’m sure you’re boiling over about things you think women don’t take seriously about us, and I’m totally fine to explore that, but don’t do it when that’s not the topic at hand.

[morrowlow]

dude you sound like a perfect example of this toxic masculinity these feminists talk about. i'm not like you i don't get into fight and i never almost kill guys and i know tons of men who also don't do that. so even if you have some sort of guilt and want to get rid of that by conforming to this attack on manhood, don't bring the rest of us into this. and the line where yo told me to sack up is exactly what these progressive folks are trying to fight. they call what you did toxic masculinity. the thing this ad is supposed to be against for holding unreasonable expectations on all men. i don't mind it but you're actions oppose these feminists while you're trying to support them with your words. and don't expect people to be civil when you call anyone who disagrees with you a piece of shit

[WhiteSteve]

Look, one thing... I’d rewrite this a little differently if I did it over. I was all hopped up on Percocets for a pinched nerve in my neck, and I came in a little hot, admittedly. I actually intended to put in an update pulling back a little bit, but blatant disrespect of women has always been a hot button issue for me. I was taught from a very young age that if another guy is inappropriate or violent towards a woman, it is MY job, as a man, to beat that person unrecognizable so it never happens again. Period. As far as my own transgressions... look, I have the heart to kill, apparently, I make no bones about that, I’m a species of animal and I SHOULD have that in me. I still maintain that that kid mouthed and disrespected his way into everything he got, that’s just me policing my own respect and that of my friends, which is all fair in my book. But we’re two dudes, that could’ve gone either way, and I could have just as easily ended up in ICU with swelling in my brain. That’s all fair, that’s just nature. Two chicks want to fight, same deal. Humans are inarguably animals, and most animals fight. But I only bring all that up to illustrate that I’m guilty of some behaviors myself and I’m not on some holier-than-thou shit. I have my own skeletons. Mine don’t involve violence or disrespect towards women, but the violence towards...

[WhiteSteve]

... other men hit home for me. But the shit about women being harassed and expecting them to accept it as just part of their life is something I take issue with, due to common decency, and yes, I do feel it’s my duty as a decent man, or flawed man with ultimately decent intentions, to enforce other men’s behavior if I don’t think it’s decent, up to and including booting your head through the rings of Saturn. If that’s “toxic” then I’m the motherfuckin’ Toxic Avenger, I don’t know what to tell you, my codes and standards are my codes and standards. If I say “sack up” or you call me a “Nancy”, that’s just semantics bullshit that I don’t concern myself with. But egregious behavior, that I can’t stress enough that I have witnessed time and time and time and time again, should be stomped out, figuratively and literally.

[morrowlow]

man that kind of thinking that it's okay for men to get beaten up but women shouldn't even get looked at the wrong way really makes my blood boil. you're obviously one of those arrogant men who feel very big and think they're in charge of other men and think they should keep other men in check. i wish i lived in U. S and i wish i knew where you lived because at this moment i really want to hurt you. if i ever saw a guy hitting on a girl and then another guy accost him i would team up with the first guy and kick the crap out of the second guy. i don't approve of the way she approached the girl but i definitely can't stand guys like you.

[shephardjhon]

1. It has NOTHING to do with shaving
2. It is accusing ALL men of doing those things
3. It is accusing ALL men of not ding enough to stop those things.
Would you be ok with telling ALL Muslims constantly that we aren't doing enough to stop terrorism/extremism?
To me, as a brown Pakistani Muslim man, it hurt a LOT seeing this. On the one hand you have the right wing accusing me of terrorism or extremism or trying to convert them and on the other hand you have these left wing people accusing me of being a misandrist bully and BOTH accusing me of not doing enough to stop the negative sides of my identity.
When I see an Imam behaving badly, I will avoid his mosque and I have done that by the way. When I see a male friend or coworker behaving badly, I will avoid contact with them, again I have done that. I am not going to stand up and punch the imam or my coworker or friend. I would contact the police if either does something illegal but I have to pray in that mosque every Friday regardless of who is the Imam and I have to go to work or school to get paid regardless of who I work with and I WILL NOT risk getting arrested to stop something that is not illegal unless I can point to the woman when the police comes and tell them she asked for help and that guy was doing sexual harassment which IS illegal. This ad is telling men to do something that is possibly illegal and risk going to jail.
(and just to clarify about the Imam thing: NO it is NOT like Christianity where a priest or church is tied to your faith and you go to hear the priest. If you don't understand why the Imam is NOT as important to a Mosque as a Priest is to a Church, go watch Hulu's show Remy)

[LMNOP123]

I think the ones that get offended think they’re generalising all men. When really they’re saying not to act like a wild animal and teach your sons this too. The other ones that are also offended already do act like wild animals and feel attacked. There’s a lot of decent dudes, I’ve seen them. There’s a lot of dads already teaching their sons to be respectful to others. I’ve seen them too. I think it’s simply dudes being too sensitive.
For the record, let’s make a commercial for the ladies too. Oh no, they don’t get a golden ticket. Women need to check themselves and the problems associated with how they are too.
Am I saying all of this applies to every female? Of course not. Just like not every dude only thinks with their dick.
Let’s all just act like ladies and gentlemen.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, the message seemed pretty clear to me, but I guess some people just received it completely differently.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

TL;DR. I just thought the ad read like typical feminist finger-wagging. It's not that I think "toxic behaviour" should be encouraged, I just don't need a multi-billion dollar, tax-dodging, price-hiking corporation to tell me how I need to "be better". It's the "holier-than-thou" attitude that turned me off it. That said, I just didn't particularly care for it, it's not like I'm rushing Gillette HQ yelling "death to feminist beta cucks!" lol

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, gotcha. I didn’t feel like it was finger-wagging personally, but I can appreciate the broader angle of “just sell me some razors and leave it there.” But you also don’t seem like the most extreme of the bashers, which is probably more of the issue for me. I should be clear, I don’t mean to champion what Gillette did necessarily, I’m not like “ more companies need to do this!”, it was more just that they happened to do this, and I personally thought the message was good and didn’t understand why peoples’ response was specifically “angry.” But you don’t need long to convince me that pretty much anything decent done by a big corporation like that is hollow in terms of being truly genuine, haha

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Yeah, I think as long as discourse stays respectful, then people like you and I can disagree back and forth til the cows come home, and nobody needs to be "offended" or "triggered". It takes a lot to offend me actually, and a "woke" internet video doesn't cut the grade. Of course, I could still critique that video frame-by-frame, but my cognitive real estate is limited, and the ink spilled on that critique could be used on writing something more productive and interesting, so I'm kinda content to just be like "fuck that advert" and go on about my day. :-)

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Also I would point out that there are some "extreme" supporters of the advert, who basically use it to confirm their own "men are pigs" narrative. So I think we have to keep the perspective that "extreme" voices are exactly that-- the extremes. Most people responding to the advert stay within the realm of moderation, much like this conversation. And I'm sure you can agree that if you have a moderate view on something, you would likely resent being lumped in with the extreme crowd. Some of my views may overlap with the people who are "offended" by the ad, but that doesn't mean I myself am offended. Make sense?

[WhiteSteve]

Lmfao, well said, bud👊😂

[andreasderjuengere]

I agree with you in all your points.
Little to add from here.
It's very unfortunate that nowadays people are so 'polarized'. We need to have a position - and this position is digital: "I" or "0" - nothing between.
We see an advertising; it suggests a thought and gives opportunity to discuss things. We don't need to argue (or get heated) about that; just as you said: 'we have a brain'.

[WhiteSteve]

Huge problem today, every thinking in such binary terms, and in mutual exclusivities🙄😒

[andreasderjuengere]

Not that I sympathize with certain political ideologies. But in the 1920's Henry Ford actually saw a tendency - and warned 'us'.

[Sensmind]

To be honest I have only a vague recollection of any furore regarding the Gillette ad - At this stage nothing surprises me that somewhere , someplace a group is being offended by something - They like to throw words around like "Snowflake" but as far as I can see everyone is an oversensitive snowflake - Your life mustn't be up to much if you spend your day waiting to be offended (in fact looking for something to be offended by) and I include all the "Liberals" and "Conservatives" in this.
Frankly I record all my TV and start watching my programmes maybe 15 minutes late so I can zip through the ads except live sports but most of which would have long periods of play between ads so breaks are used for the bathroom or to make coffee.
Yeah to your point of your post, take the positive of the ad, don't automatically look for a negative undercurrent, there is enough of that in the real world, let the TV be a bit of escapism.

[WhiteSteve]

That’s it right there, I feel like the positive is totally ignored and then everyone found this negative undercurrent, like you said👍

[Bananaman177]

By itself, the commercial isn't THAT bad, it's bad, but it would be easily ignored if it wasn't coming out at a time when nearly every commercial and every show and every song and every movie was all about bashing men.

This Gillette commercial is just a small drop in a very large bucket, and people were upset not at the drop, but at the whole bucket that is being dumped on men. And also because nobody expects to get attacked by a fucking razor company.

It was seen as Gillette piling on. bashing men just because that's the currently trendy thing to do. That's what was offensive to me. That and the fact that the implication of this ad is that Men are all toxic and we need Gillette razor company to teach us how to fucking act.

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, well, to be honest, I don’t really have my hand on the pulse of popular culture the last few years, I don’t really watch tv or movies, and I listen more to older music. I know pro sports and that’s it, as far as current events. I understand your angle on it though, I guess I just didn’t see it as as much of an indictment of all men as much as it just charges us to be better people on our end. Maybe they should have released a female version at the same time and it would have been received better.

[Bananaman177]

OK, pro sports, like NFL football? Where they have commercials against domestic violence every five minutes? Because a bunch of NFL players beat and kill their wives and girlfriends every year, they have to put on this shaming commercial where they basically imply that it's really US, the viewers, who are beating and killing women and we should JUST STOP!

What the fuck is that shit? Tell the fucking players, not the fans.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, I’ve seen that NFL campaign, and boy do THEY fucking need it, holy shit. Bad look for anyone who ever played the sport, I mean, we were always known as gorillas, over-aggressive athletes and people, and that’s fine, but now that definitely creates a poor impression for everyone involved, right or wrong. I’m a Pats fan and we’re obviously in the middle of a very special run right now, but if I was just a fan of some random middle-of-the pack team, I’d consider just not watching anymore. I was similarly disappointed in the NFL fans in the differences in their responses to the whole Kaepernick thing vs how they respond to player after player beating the shit out of chicks. Like your priorities are so wildly out of whack if Kap offends someone more than some guy getting like two games cuz for coldcocking a woman 150 lbs smaller than them. Like one has a serious tangible affect on at least one other person, and the other is basically just dealing in an intangible affect of supposedly compromised respect. But Commissioner Clownshoes just checks the temperature of the public and makes decisions best on what’s best for business rather than what’s right. Whatever side of the Kap issue you stand, Goodell stood there slack-jawed with his dick in his hand because he didn’t want to rock the boat with any fans on either side. Don’t even get me started on the Deflategate bullshit, but I don’t care if you think Brady sucked air out with his mouth on camera, the guy who knocks out his wife or beats up and pours bleach on his girlfriend, or this recent idiot that sounds like he broke his three year old’s arm and is literally on recording being told the kid is terrified of him, and the response is “AND YOU NEED TO BE TERRIFIED OF ME TOO, BITCH!”, suspend Brady for a whole season if you see fit, but make sure the guys kicking the shit out of defenseless women and kids get at least a whole season + 1, MINIMUM. I mean we talk about how the next guy comes every...

[WhiteSteve]

... year to take a veteran player’s spot, just based on performance... these guys are replaceable... THAT’S where you go full Trump on it and say “Get that son of a bitch off the field!” But your point, I understand what you’re saying, but I just don’t see the harm in a PSA telling us to not do shit like that. I agree, it’s pretty fucking hollow coming from the NFL, when Brady and Belichick ride off into the sunset, I might put that league on timeout. But I guess where we’re in discord is I just can’t for the life of me see the harm in airing a PSA about it, even if it’s kind of a dog and pony show on the league’s part and them being like “sooooo, sorry about Greg Hardy... but look at Eli Manning, don’t you just wanna pinch his cheeks?” Basically, I just don’t understand why we can’t see commercials like these or Gillette’s, say “I agree, that behavior, when perpetrated, by however small a percentage of the population, is deplorable and needs to stop”, and then just go on with your day knowing that it wasn’t a shot at you, it was a shot at those few perpetrators. All I really take any of that as personally, is “don’t stand idly by if you see something, be part of the solution.” I’ve never struck a woman in my life, I don’t plan to, so it’s simply not a shot at me or anyone who doesn’t engage in that behavior. That seems to be the crux of the whole issue with a lot of people I’m getting responses from, basically “Well don’t blame me!” And I just don’t view the ad that way, as accusatory. It’s showing the worst extremes, that DO OCCUR (and I see you were debating this with the young lady on her thread, maybe you haven’t witnessed...

[WhiteSteve]

... it personally, but I PROMISE you, I have witnessed all of it in multiple instances. No woman was raped or beaten in that ad, nor did anyone attempt to, it was more things that are insensitive and make women feel threatened and sexualized. Video taping them, that’s happened at like every frat party I ever went to. I was actually discussing the ad and the blowback with my girlfriend, and I even said, regarding the guy who was about to run up on the hot chick on the street and his buddy stops him, “maybe that’s a little extreme in the severity of the guy’s intensity, like how he’s like “ohhhh-ho-ho-hoooo” and rubbing his hands together or whatever, and my girlfriend QUICKLY was like “UHHHHHH, I used get much worse, they’d actually grab my tits and ass, tell me I should suck their dick or fuck them... it’s TERRIFYING!” Granted, she’s from NYC, but I had to slap up a guy or two out in the small college town we met in too for it, and even if it’s just in NYC, that’s a city of 8 million+ people. We can’t just be like “welp, cities are hellholes, what are ya gonna do?” That all counts in the stats, whether it’s concentrated to certain areas or not. The ad plays for everyone. So I guess I’m just saying that I think a lot of the attitudes I get from the detractors is this kind of head-in-the-sand, “what? That never happens...”, and I am here to assure you that it DOES, and not just a little, if it hasn’t happened to occur in your presence as of yet. I appreciate everything you’re trying to say, I just think you’re drastically underestimating how much this stuff happens in everyday life, and if women say it happens and it makes them uncomfortable, I feel like it’s disrespectful to respond with “nahhhhh, that never happens.”

[WhiteSteve]

*Intangible and tangible E-ffects... Christ, I’m better than that, come on😂🤦‍♂️

[bolverk]

What pissed off a lot of men is that the Gillette advert tarred all men with the same brush as misogynists, just as if they did a similar advert that showed all women as misandrists, but that would not happen as the director who made the advert is a radical feminist who has regularly attacked men in her previous works,

[WhiteSteve]

But it said right in the narration that it’s only SOME men, it’s just that it needs to be ALL men not doing fucked up shit. I’m not sure if you read the details of my take or if you just quickly responded to the title, but I guess that’s the whole reason I wrote the take in the first place, is that I’m watching this over and over again and I can’t for the life of me see what was untrue or offensive about this, again, not for ALL men, but at least charging all of us men to be better people and not just standing idly by when we see fucked up shit happen in our presence. Anything about misandrist behavior is simply a separate conversation and it’s kind of deflective, the point HERE is to examine men’s behavior, and whether or not there are problems with female behavior is a totally separate discussion for another time. If you want to write a take asking why we haven’t seen a commercial yet from Lady Bic, it’s a fair question, but I don’t think it’s that relevant to the actual content of the men’s commercial, or an extra reason to be mad at Gillette. I’m not aware of who the director was, I’d have to do my own research on her.

But yeah, I guess I just disagree with the whole “paints all men with a broad brush” aspect of it.

[bolverk]

The director of the ad is Kim Gehrig and she is a sexual predator. One of her past victims in 2011 committed suicide.

[WhiteSteve]

Yeesh. I’ll look into it, thanks for the info, man.

[Bluemax]

My only problem is the part of the ad where we watch a bunch of men stand around while two boys beat each other up.

Does this behavior happen? I'm sure it does. Does it happen so frequently as to warrant some kind of PSA like this ad? No, it doesn't.

I've been around more fathers than most people combined. My work entailed it. In a typical year, I attended more BBQs, birthday parties, bar mitzvas, blue and gold dinners, etc. than virtually all of you combined. Never once did I witness a bunch of men standing around while two boys beat on each other and rationalizing it as "boys will be boys." Not once in all my 22 years as a teacher. Not once.

Again, let me state I'm sure it does happen. However, to suggest that this is widespread enough to warrant lecturing people about it is absurd.

Which of these behaviors have you personally engaged in, WhiteSteve?

[Lliam]

I watched the commercial and read your views. You expressed yourself clearly and I agree with everything you said. I even related to your description of yourself and your rejection of labels. I feel the same way.

All I can say is, "Right on, bro."

And I didn't take this as an indictment on all men or an attack on masculinity. In the end, the peacemakers are more masculine than the aggressors.

Here's just one example of how real men behave. We are the defenders and protectors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnVbQuxok0I

[Anonymous]

It’s a misandrist ad, it doesn’t matter how much it’s defenders try to sugar coat it especially now that Gillette is seemingly acknowledging (although very subtly) that the ad was a mistake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMABYLK7RI

[WhiteSteve]

I kind of gave this question a breather, it got all the blowback I expected, lmao.

So, I’m kind of burnt out talking about it at this point, tbh, but my whole issue is I just don’t see how it’s construed as misandrist. I’ve learned a few things and saw a few different perspectives from the responses, and I’ve taken some of it into consideration for sure, I feel a little differently now, or at least a little more understanding of WHY some are offended, even if I don’t agree necessarily with the legitimacy of their offense taken.

Anyway, point is, the behaviors exhibited in the commercial are FACTUAL, that’s the spot I can’t be moved off of, and the crux of my whole argument. I have witnessed most or all of these offenses. I’ve committed some of the more man-on-man offenses, I have a pretty violent past, to be totally transparent with you.

One way I’d like to maybe re-explore this whole thing is to take the advertising aspect out of it. Forget that a business is tied into this, what if it was just a free Public Service Announcement? If you want to say Gillette the company is disingenuous in all this, fine, you’re probably right. It’s just men being offended by the concept that irks me. This shit happens. I’ve seen it happen, I’ve made it happen, it’s happened to my girlfriend, it’s happened to female friends, it’s happened to my own mother, rest her soul. So I know right there that what the ad is contending IS factually correct, on account of first and second hand witness. What is so wrong about charging us to be better? Or to be better at holding fellow men accountable and stopping behaviors and attitudes? Like walk through the commercial... would you not stop those guys from filming the visibly uncomfortable bikini-clad women? Would you not stop a friend from making an overly-aggressive advance at a passing woman? Would you not help that little kid...

[WhiteSteve]

... getting beat up by a gang of bullies? That’s where I start asking “What kind of a man —actually what kind of a PERSON— are you?” My problem with the detractors is that they act as if none of these dramatizations (which are obviously dramatized in order to make a profound visual and emotional effect in a matter of a second on screen) are real life occurences, and due to life experience, I can tell you they are. So let’s throw that piece of the argument right out the window.

What we’re left with is was it right for Gillette to do it? If you want to argue a business is pandering for sales... which I honestly don’t get why they thought men would by and large like this, not because it’s wrong, but because people hate being called out on their bullshit... I would listen to that argument. Another user I know to be pretty astute told me a little about the Gillette CEO, and surprise, surprise, a wealthy businessman is a piece of shit, lmao.

So I get that, and at the time I wrote this, I was coming in hot off of not being able to respond to one of the most ignorant users’ question basically grave-dancing when Gillette’s abysmal post-ad numbers came in. I don’t care about Gillette, I just care that dudes actually either think this aren’t real problems or that they don’t give a shit. That’s just being a shitty person, period.

[Opinion Owner]

There really isn’t anything factual about this ad. It’s nothing more than anti male propaganda that stereotypes men as being violent and sleazy. Think of war time propaganda that distorts actual facts in order to get the public to hate the “enemy”, same thing here.

The main problem is that it caters to SJW rhetoric and assumes that violence and sleaze is unique to males, when it’s not. Females can be just as if not more violent and sleazy than men. Fact, most domestic abuse cases are from lesbian couples.

SJWs just like to dismiss women’s violent and sleazy behavior as mere “exceptions” or they try to sugar coat it. Whenever a man is a victim and the woman the perpetrator, everybody laughs at the man, which is why male victims rarely come forward.

Likewise whenever a straight woman is victimized by another woman, the case is dismissed as a “romantic relationship gone wrong”. Which is why so many women who’ve been victimized by other women rarely come forward.

[WhiteSteve]

Well, there is plenty of factual material in this ad, because I just told you I’ve witnessed all of it on multiple occasions, and even been guilty of some of it. And I should be better. That’s how I took it. Debating that the stuff is even factual is kind of a non-starter for reasonable discussion.

And if Venus or whoever want to make one of these for women, then I’m all for it. Nothing in this video says women are innocent in their own right, but that’s a separate discussion for a separate ad. This one is about men’s behavior, and men’s behavior only. If you want to say it’s not cool that no one made one for negative behavior from women, I’m all for it. But it just simply has nothing to do with this discussion, and to bring it up is deflective.

I think people are misreading me about the whole thing, I’m not saying women are angelic, I’m just saying there’s been shit going on for a long time that women have been wrongly subjected to, and the time has come for it to start being squashed. I don’t for the life of me understand why that’s offensive. If you aren’t guilty of any of it, I applaud you. But it’s wildly naive to suggest that none of these things are problems, I’ve been seeing it fairly frequently, enough to know that it’s real, for 40 years of life.

[WhiteSteve]

For the record, I agree with a lot of your points about the inequalities of how certain issues are perceived relative to whether the victim or whatever you want to call them is male or female. That’s a problem in its own right, and if someone wants to do a PSA about that, I’m for it too. I just felt like this ad with a lot of valid sentiments gets dismissed wrongly because of hypersensitivity to those aforementioned inequalities.

[Opinion Owner]

The behavior you’ve witnessed isn’t unique to males. Women get bullied a lot by other women but it’s mostly cyber and emotional bullying rather than physical bullying, that’s why it’s hardly talked about.

Women get in fights as well, in fact in my high school alone, there were more fights between female students than fights between male students. And even the administration said that bullying is more prevalent amongst female students than male students.

Furthermore women sleaze as well, they can just get away with it more often. Look at all those female celebrities groping men on stage and nobody bats an eye. Now reverse the sexes and you’ll get nationwide outrage.

That’s the problem with the ad, it paints males as the aggressors and females as the angelic victims who can’t do no wrong. It’s a direct attack on masculinity perpetuated by liberal pseudoscience all to promote “positive masculinity” which is basically sugarcoated forced effeminacy.

[WhiteSteve]

Well, like I said, I don’t disagree that there’s plenty of behavior that women and humans in general could and should be called to the carpet for.

Let me ask you like this instead, because you and everyone else who sees this differently than me really seem to be hung up on women not being called out, and as I said, I agree they could be, but that’s a whole other ad to be made, I don’t consider it at all relevant, I’m just looking at this in a vacuum. So i’d ask, if a women’s version was made, and all of their negative behaviors dramatically portrayed in a manner to make an emotional impact within a second or two to the viewers, the way it was done here, so you still have a problem with the commercial? The only two counterarguments I seem to get are the “well what about women?” and then just the outright denial of these male behaviors, which I certainly believe to be legitimate, albeit perpetrated only by a minority of us.

I just feel like people are taking it way too much as an attack, rather than just food for thought, and maybe a necessary recalibration of our standards for ourselves and those around us.

[WhiteSteve]

*do you still have a problem

[Opinion Owner]

If the roles where reversed, it would have been the liberals and 4th wave feminists who would have been outraged.

Nobody is denying there are guys who take part in those behaviors, it’s the fact that they chose to portray them as uniquely male behaviors that caused the outrage. The commercial wouldn’t have had outrage if it equally acknowledged that people in general can exhibit these behaviors.

You are assuming that just because you witnessed these behaviors yourself that it somehow is a fair representation of men around the world which is a hasty generalization itself.

[WhiteSteve]

I can agree with that, and then maybe I’d have written a take, or better yet, maybe a woman would have written a take, asking why everyone is so butthurt over arguably legitimate issues, and asking them to take the ad as it was intended, constructive criticism and a charge to be better or play your part by holding your peers accountable.

And I get what you’re saying, and maybe someone is remiss in not producing that women’s version, but again, I really don’t take it that way, personally. “Well what about all the bullshit women pull?” just isn’t what my jumps to, I’m dealing with one issue at a time. On the one hand, maybe we should have had that women’s version by now. On the other hand, look how poorly received this was, and I’d expect a lot of women to be equally butthurt. And it would be interesting to debate because the “what about THEM?” argument is off the table because in this case, it’s been covered.

And to your last point: I don’t think it’s a fair representation of men around the world, it was never supposed to be. It’s simply a representation of the worst examples of male behavior. Whether it applies to you or not, that’s really up to who you are.

I just feel like dudes on the internet are just so angry at women these days, and this blind rage takes over. Not saying that’s you, just in general, I mean.

[WhiteSteve]

*just isn’t what my brain jumps to

[Opinion Owner]

I get what you’re saying but this is a decade where 4th wave feminism is running rampant, so that has a lot of men on edge. Men aren’t actually angry at women, men’s rights groups still welcome women in their communities. Men are simply tired of being portrayed as the enemy by the liberal media.

Further proof of this is how many women also realize that men are under attack and sympathize with us. Christina Hoff Sommers is one of those women, she even wrote a book on it.

[WhiteSteve]

That’s fair enough, I guess I just look at the extremists as crazies, haha, so I’m not really worried about their opinions and protests and all that. I see all these brawls with Antifa vs whatever you call the guys wearing American flags as capes and shit, and I’m just trying to envision a plausible way we could wait for a lightning storm and funnel them all into a lake surrounded by desert and no tall trees, just an aluminum pole in the middle of said lake, haha. Fanatical people of any cause are people I would bet I’d object to, I’m not affiliated with anything political. But I was raised by people born in the 1930s, unwavering chivalrous values were instilled in me. So I’ve always been very protective of women, not worshipping the ground they walk on or thinking they can do no wrong, but I do believe in treating women more gently and I’m just on the lookout for dudes trying to fuck with them. I was also a bouncer for 10+ years, so I’m a little extra tuned into it now after seeing how dudes act towards women when they get a little lubed up.

My girlfriend is actually one of those women who sympathizes with men, and so do I, by the way, I just didn’t take this ad the same way as a lot of others, but in other cases or issues, I absolutely think dudes get the shaft. I’m on the team, bro, I live this just like you do, haha. We could spend a day bitching about everything frustrating about being a dude, I get it, believe me. My lady has actually come around in it too. She’s a hot chick from NYC, you better believe when I met her at 22 she was coming in hot with some serious attitude lmao. And she’d tell me about she and her friend fucking with dudes at bars and clubs, zero regard for their feelings. Never dorky guys, they’d actually flirt with them and say “if we were single...” type stuff, try to give them a boost. But dudes who thought they were smooth were getting shot down the hard way lmao. But now at 35 she feels bad about that, and...

[WhiteSteve]

... said something to the effect of her having an attitude back then like guys NEEDED to be shot down, a lot of this in part to experiencing behavior like the one in the ad (and worse than the ad even delved into), but also there was just an underestimation of how hard guys would take it, like it didn’t hurt they way it would if done to a woman. And she said she realizes now that that’s obviously not true, and she was wrong for projecting the poor behavior of a few onto some pseudo-player at a bar who’s probably just hiding a billion insecurities beneath the cocky exterior, and wasn’t deserving of her being cruel to them. Like that’s all totally valid, I don’t deny any of that. So I guess we’re just reading the commercial a little differently. From an integrity standpoint, hearing a little about the Gillette CEO, I’d concede that the idea of them being the ones to tread into this area is pretty laughable. But I guess I’d just say to a young dude like you, don’t let the extremists, on either side, however loud, dictate the reality around you. The answer is usually somewhere in the middle. Everything else is just noise.

[Liam_Hayden]

It was preaching to all men when only a small % do it. It is like telling Latinos not be be gang bangers or blacks not to do drive bys or whites not to shoot up schools or women not to drown their children when only a very, very, very small % do it.

[WhiteSteve]

Right, but that was addressed in the commercial, they say right in the narration, “SOME” men do this, not all, or even most. I feel like the viewers are exaggerating what was trying to be said because on some level they just don’t care about these behaviors. I asked my girlfriend if she thought it was accurate, as a woman, and she said she’s experienced most of the man-on-woman stuff personally, she got literally grabbed, multiple, MULTIPLE times just walking through NYC. She’s attractive and the men could sometimes be very aggressive and inappropriate... so I mean, are we just calling women liars now? We can’t take them on their word that these things happen and make them uncomfortable?

[Liam_Hayden]

They said "some" and then told all men to do better. Some women drown their children. Women, do better.

Now do you get it?

[WhiteSteve]

What I don’t get is what any indictment of male behavior has to do with female behavior. It’s completely irrelevant to and independent of that. Separate discussion to be had at a separate time. It’s completely fine with me if you think there should be a women’s version, I’m not saying women are innocent. I’m saying that a commercial about men is a commercial about men. It said “some” men do bad shit, and it charges us “all” to be better, whether that’s stopping the behavior coming from yourself, or just being a man and standing up for what’s right if you’re one of the majority NOT perpetrating those behaviors.

Some men do bad shit. ALL of us can and should play a role in stopping it. Women’s behavior is irrelevant to the discussion at this juncture and can be addressed at another time, let’s focus on the issue at hand, which today, in this moment, is bad MALE behavior, in a vacuum. That’s the whole thing in a nutshell for me right there, and I can’t for the life of me even come up with a way to see it differently than that.

[MajesticTwelve]

You're an absolute fool. Nothing more needs to be said. I was offended for men by that commercial.
Maybe go try white knighting on tumblr. Seems more your style, and who knows, you might meet the big pink haired land whale of your dreams over there, you shining example of a beta cuck loser you.

[WhiteSteve]

AGGRESSIVE, lmao. I have no reason to White Knight, I don’t know any of you people, I’m just very surprised people tooknthis ad the way they did. Like after all these responses, I understand what everyone’s supposed problem is a lot better, I’d just say by and large I don’t get it or agree with their perception of it. I just honestly don’t see the offense or even implications of all or most guys being like that. Oh well, ty for your input.

[AircraftCarrier]

What I personally dislike is when non political companies adopt a political strategy. And you might just be an SJW by your extensive use of swear words and put downs. Remember, they don't make you argument any more valid ; )

[WhiteSteve]

No SJW here, I don’t believe in politics enough for that. And I cuss like a sailor, it is what it is, I know my intelligence and I know my arguments are tight with or without profanity.

That said, if you feel like it’s not any company’s place to get into that, that’s fair, there was a woman here who liked the message but was uncomfortable it was used for marketing. So I’m open to that angle, but to be offended it, I just don’t get that, and to assert that these are not real problems women face would simply be factually incorrect. It’s not how many people do it, it’s that ANYONE does it.

[AircraftCarrier]

Right. I don't think offended is the right word for me, but it also completely disgusts me that Gillette and YouTube have been removing dislikes and comments from the video - it's the most authoritarian thing to do which prevents discourse from happening, and combined with the political stance taken it seems like there is too much bias on their side.

Although many of the things mentioned of problems with men are realistic and women put up with them, using ideology does the one thing that people hate, which is that it sweeps ALL men under the same banner, even based on the actions of a few. Plus, nobody likes being an attacked, even of the message is justified.

[WhiteSteve]

Yes, heard about the comment removal in another opinion, and I definitely don’t endorse that. You have to let authentic discourse take place. That’s not any way to get a message across.

I guess where I disagree is that I think the narration explicitly said it wasn’t that all men are like this, only some, it’s just suggesting that it’s incumbent on guys like me and hopefully to speak up when we see it, rather than just shrug it off as a problem that doesn’t affect us. I feel like the message that got lost, yet was fairly explicitly stated and at least well-enough implied, I thought, was “this is SOME, not ALL, but it needs to be NONE.” And as a guy who had a mother, and has girlfriend, and teenage female cousins, one right around your age, who I love and care about, I want them to live in a better world than we do right now. I just wish more men saw this and didn’t take it as such an attack, but maybe more of a “I know you think this behavior is harmless, but if you asked a woman, you’d find it makes them super uncomfortable, like more so than you give it credit for, so maybe chill out your bullshit, or be a little better about standing up against bullshit that you witness.”

[AircraftCarrier]

Would you personally like it if more companies adopted this approach?

[holograph]

Short answer - I don't have a problem with the message the commercial conveyed, itself. But I don't find it genuine for companies to use that kind of message as marketing. And I don't believe the company executives really care about the message. It's just a marketing tool.

For what it's worth, I already didn't buy their products, so whatever. I'm not buying them now and I wasn't buying them before. Nothing has changed for me.

[Wowgirl30q]

People are sensitive AF I don't understand either sir🙂

[WhiteSteve]

I’m all for “being a man”, but I feel like we can maintain manliness while not being an obvious asshole, y’know?🙄😂

[morrowlow]

sure you don't understand and no one expected you to. the ad did not attack you

[winterfox10]

I agree with your overall point, but I disagree with your final conclusion about how people who dislike this commercial must think women aren't worthy of decent treatment. This commercial was about calling on men to raise the standards we hold ourselves to. Many men may simply feel that it isn't their responsibility or business to call other men out.

[WhiteSteve]

Fair enough, I guess I feel like it should be incumbent on us all. I don’t really like the idea of being officially policed by the government, I’m more into humanity just self-policing itself and slapping people in the mouth when called for, haha