Who's At Fault For Biologically Reversed Gender Roles In Our Time: Men or Women

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

This is actually based on the question that coachTanthony recently asked as well as a reply I saw on it that happens to be very true, and the reply was actually written by a guy. So I give coachTanthony credit because he asks great questions, and I would give the other guy credit but he was anonymous so... oh well.

With this take, by "biologically reversed gender roles," I'm referring to the facts that 1) women as a whole are trying to become more dominant and make men submissive and 2) men as a whole are becoming more insecure.

First I want to point out that a lot of this comes from my culture and how I was raised. Usually in our culture in Latin America the men are dominant and the women are submissive. (This DOES NOT mean sexually. It's referring to society in general.)

Biologically speaking, men are meant to be the dominant ones. That doesn't mean that a man has to make all of the money or do all of the supporting, and in present times that's actually impossible unless he's working all of the time and never at home (only to be complained about by the woman because she thinks he's cheating or avoiding the family) or he's a rich guy. Both have to support each other in every way.
On the women's side, there are the men who will get you pregnant then leave, and honestly that's a big reason we end up with feminist kids (a topic for another day). There is no reason for men to do this because if you don't want the woman 100% then don't have sex with her.
HOWEVER, fellow women, if you give your 50% and you wanna tango with him too, then when he leaves and you're pregnant then you can't complain. You did that to yourself (unless he led you on: see below). I know I'll get a lot of disagreement from my own gender here, but really, if somebody doesn't want to be with you the rest of their life, you can't force them, and having sex definitely won't be forceful enough. If anything, it'll make matters worse when you get pregnant. (Why have a baby with somebody whom you're not gonna spend your lifetime with?) And I am also against abortion... just throwing that out there. With all of this said, guys should not lead a woman to believe he wants her completely just to get sex. This is where the problem comes in.
I can't even say one gender is the guilty one for "love you and leave you" because obviously men do it a lot but so do women, and honestly I am extremely guilty of it myself (not including sex).
Men shouldn't judge themselves based on how women see them. And yes, I'm referencing this only to men... Don't judge yourself the same way women do, because in all honesty and truth, if you're not an alpha then you're gonna mess up your own confidence. Obviously (here is where I take women's side) alphas are not the only ones who have girlfriends. Are they still more successful with getting women, though? Sure. That's biology. A lot of guys like to push this off and claim that what makes an alpha is money, fame, etc., and for a lot of women (gold-diggers) it's true, but it's not true for our majority. For us, what really makes a guy an alpha is his view of himself and his confidence. Yes, we pay attention to how YOU judge YOURSELF.
On the other side of that coin, biologically we women do tend to judge ourselves based on men's opinion of us. I'm not saying it's a 100% good thing, but if you don't believe it or disagree then go out on the town and count how many women you see who don't wear make-up. That's just one example. I will say that it is much better if a woman judges herself by her own standards and not by a man's as well.
But overall, for men to be the dominant ones, they should judge themselves by their own confident standards. If a woman you like doesn't like your standards (a.k.a. you don't meet hers) then she's not good for you anyway. It's the same the other way too, for women. To both genders: you shouldn't change for anybody (unless it's a matter of improving yourself FOR YOURSELF - like fixing a cursing habit, for example); you should be yourself because if you change for everybody you want then you're never going to be the same person and therefore you'll never be yourself.
As for rejection, everybody is a hypocrite on this one. There is no other explanation. When one person (of either gender) expects the people they reject to just go on about their own business like it never happened, they still do the same emotional things to the ones that they want. It's hypocritical. I'm extremely guilty of this too. We all need to expect to receive what we give, and if we don't like it then we shouldn't give it.

So in conclusion, really both genders are at fault, but I do believe that society has given us (everybody) a reasonable excuse. I think it has hurt it's own self.

[sejla]

I think as humans we are continuously evolving. The reason women were more passive in the past was they were given less right going way back. I'm not saying all men were that way but for the most part women didn't have much control of their own lives. They might not have had a choice of who they would marry, they couldn't work in many cases except for a few who might have their own businesses and for the most part they couldn't own property nor inherit their husband's property if he died.

I think we need to separate societal norms of gender roles from real biological gender roles.

[updog45]

I will have to disagree a bit with you. I won't say women were more passive in the past, they had hindrances socially and biologically. Women have always had the burden of child birth and back then it would have been far more a burden than today. Women having access to feminine products etc. would have been non-existent. Just look at how young people used to get married and start families.

[sejla]

@updog45 I agree. They weren't more passive by choice it was because had no other option. They had very little control over their daily lives.

[mistixs]

"men are meant to be the dominant ones. That doesn't mean that a man has to make all of the money or do all of the supporting"
Um, yes it does. The person who pays the bills is the one who makes the rules. If he's not paying her bills, then he has no right to tell her what to do.

As for abortion: If women aren't allowed to relinquish their responsibility for pregnancy, then neither should the man be able to.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

I don't believe the man should be able to, but it's just a lot easier for him. If you ask me, the ones who don't take responsibility are not even men. But I see what you are saying, and I agree with your last statement. I just think it's the second part that needs to be changed, not the first. And it could be done... We have enough technology that society could stop the man from running away if they wanted to. They could easily do something like take the blood of boys when they are born, read the DNA, code it, and match those DNA codes with the new SSN. Then when he is older and they take the baby's DNA, they can track the guy down. So they could do it if they wanted to, but I do agree with your last statement, although in a different way.

[sejla]

My dad always made most of the money. Many times he was the only one making the money. He never set the rules of the household my parents took joint responsibility. While my mom took the house for the most part when I was young that flipped later. My mom went back to college after we were almost grown and when she got sick in her 70s my dad took over the cooking and cleaning.

My mom told me my dad never held over my mom that he was the main bread winner and she could spend money on things she wanted. They planned their financial things together.

[mistixs]

@sejla Yeah, the breadwinner shouldn't be overbearing. Men are commanded to love their wives like Christ loves the church, and Christ was never overbearing. Christ gives the church lots of freedom. & Christ commanded leaders to follow in Christ's example of prioritizing the interests of the people under their authority, instead of the leaders' own interests (Matt 20:25-28, Eph 5:25-30, Phil 2:3-4).
So yes, men get the final say, but that should work in the favor of the woman. That's the case for any "rules" - it should be for the woman's benefit, not the man's.

And the Bible says that women are to manage the home, and the original Greek word used in that passage was a combination of the word "rule + home" and referred to a ruler (the term was even used to refer to God in some contexts). So of course the wife is in charge of the home - which makes sense if the man is out of the house working for most of the day.

[sejla]

My mom worked before she met my dad. I don't think she was necessarily traditional especially after the 70s. I mean my daughter stayed with me before she went to kindergarten but she, also, went to work with me. She understood early on that the debit card wasn't magical and required a pay check. I didn't send her to day care because I wanted to raise her but I always kept her on a day care waiting list in case I had to go back to work full time or I got sick or died.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

@sejla That is actually the ideal way to do it, even in Latin American culture.

[sejla]

I don't consider myself traditional either.

[mistixs]

@sejla Well yeah, women are totally able to have jobs. The Bible commends as "virtuous" the woman in Prov 31 who ran her own business. The deal is that, from a Biblical perspective, women aren't required to have jobs; their husbands/fathers/sons/grandsons (depending on stage of life) are expected to provide for them. But women can have jobs if they wish.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

@mistixs That’s all I meant, what you just said. That’s the way it is in our culture. Yes, ultimately the man is responsible for providing for the family while the woman cares for the home and children, but women can help provide if needed and if it doesn’t interfere with her ultimate responsibility.

[mistixs]

Yeah, that makes sense. Is your culture primarily Christian?

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

@mistixs Mostly Catholic, but my mom is a Christian and I’ve been raised that way. I am a proud believer in Christ too. My dad is solid Catholic so he’s like most of the people around Latin America, so he’s just like eh 🤷🏻‍♀️

[mistixs]

I think Catholic qualifies as Christian because they believe in Christ :P

[sejla]

Yes it is just another sect like Greek Orthodox or other sects.

[Monster_Recluse]

I'd put more than half the blame on men. Most women WANT to be submissive, but if there are not enough men out there which are comfortable and competent in that situation it's just not going to happen. And they will be forced to take up a more dominate way of life than they would want to simply out of nessiacity.

The younger generations of men seem to get wimpier and wimpier every generation. More and more they are sheltered from harshness, which makes them meek and docile. Meek and docile things naturally want to be led rather than lead.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

Truth 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[updog45]

Why do you think theyre getting this way? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

[Monster_Recluse]

@updog45 Civilization naturally shelters people from harshness making meek and docile wimps. That's been noted for centuaries. So it's part of a greater problem.

I think that the particulars of today really came into play with the internet. Civilization has been sheltering us from violence, famine, and all manner of physical discomfort for centuaries. But the internet added a new type of sheltering, being sheltered from real social situations. You can now reach levels of social meakness that were almost unheard of in the past. Part of being a dominate man is to be able to put your foot down and say things in a confident, clear voice in the face of advercity. When you've got boys growing up that act like a turtle in real life socia situations they are not only completing incapable of doing that, but can't even speak up when pushed around.

If these men are sex starved (as many asocial boys are) predatory girls will eventually pick up on it and start dominating them. Look at it from a girl's perspective, you've got a shortage of real men that want to lead and a surplus of socially retarded nerds that get no female attention because they are too afraid to even ask them out. One way to adopt to that environment is to start dominating them.

[updog45]

You dont think the lack of a proper family unit has anything to do with it? Fatherlessness?

[Monster_Recluse]

@updog45 I'm sure it does. But I feel like there is a big spike in the wussification of men about the time the internet became a normal thing.

The demise of the family has definitly been a contributing factor, that affects both boys and girls. A bad mother will cause a girl to associate femninity with negativity. An abscent father will cause boys to be abscent of masculinity. Our parents are our first and most influential exposure to how a fully developed member of each gender behaves. This has the negative consiquence of creating a downward spiral. There are men starting families who will say to themself "I don't know how to teach my son to be a man, because my father never taught me."

I beleive radical problems require radical solutions. Not only is our sense of masculinity and femninity fucked beyond beleif but there are people who activily compaign to maintain the current quagmire or make it worst. To put it bluntly any solution that does not involve organized violence is not a solution, it is at best a way to slow down the infection rather than destroy the source. Part of masculinity is having the will to do incredibly cruel things for the sake of one's culture and people.

[englisc]

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. There's no way you can pin it on either gender, in the same way as sex and creating a baby takes two to tango, so do these changes. It wouldn't happen without feminist women and weak men.

[MzAsh]

My belief is, don’t ask for anything from a partner that you aren’t willing to offer up yourself.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

That’s a great way to put it simply 👍🏻

[Phoenix98]

Feminists, liberals and the media if you want a honest and frank answer.

More liberal/democratic people tend to be feminists or something similar of the sort the media gives a platform to people the media also happens to be bias and more attuned to the liberal/democratic side of things. A lot of feminists are crazy and have the kind of thinking you are referring to.

The Media also likes to pain the picture of the world in which you are talking about, one where men are below women and they also paint pictures of oppression or the patriarchy that just simply don't exist and are nothing more then fantasy but gullible people who don't know any better buy into it.

I can honestly say though that where I live is not reversed like the places where this is happening where I live men are men and women are women, the roles are exactly how they sure be.

"men are meant to be the dominant ones. That doesn't mean that a man has to make all of the money or do all of the supporting"

Uh yeah it does that exactly what it means to be the breadwinner of the family, you bring in the money, you pay the bills you support the family financially, it's exactly as advertised. It's our responsibility as the head of the household.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

Yes it’s the man’s responsibility, but there is nothing wrong with the woman helping as long as she still remains responsible for the home and kids. For example, if I have raised the kids and now they are in school and I want to be a doctor, a normal man won’t mind that. It’s not my responsibility, but a normal man isn’t gonna day no to a woman also having a job if it doesn’t interfere with her responsibilities as a wife and mother.

[Phoenix98]

And you'd probably find most guys share your opinion.

I don't know about the doctor part though medical schools really expensive and difficult, if you failed ( not saying you would ) you'd be out countless thousands of dollars, good for you though if you do it and succeed.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

Actually I have a full ride to the medical school because of my MCAT score, so really I wouldn’t be out anything. That still has nothing to do with the fact that the woman is allowed to help out if she wants to and if it doesn’t interfere with her responsibilities to the man and the family.

[ronaldo75]

You're going to medical school? What are you specializing in?

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

@ronaldo75 neurophysiology

[Phoenix98]

I stand by my remarks.

Well that's at least good you won't be out anything if for whatever reason you couldn't finish school.

[SkipStop]

Feminism / Misandry is at fault. And like 95% of them are women. And these women are the voices if society for some reason. They are the ones who started them and weak people bend the knee to them. These feminists / misandrists say that biological or scientific gender roles are a form of the so-called "Patriarchy" and is a form of oppression against women. B. S. People do what comes natural to them. Men like to lead and women like to follow. We get hardwired this way before we are even born.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

You are right in a lot of ways, but I don't believe one gender is at fault. I agree with what you're saying about the bio of it and that we are made that way before we are born, and feminists saying that patriarchy is "oppression against women". Actually, I agree with everything you said except the first sentence. As you can probably tell, I'm not a feminist, and to go deeper, I was raised to practice patriarchy and believe that as a role men are to be dominant. That's a big major part of my culture. However, some guys also allow these crazy women (feminists) to get to them for no reason and bring them down and then complain about women. So guys aren't innocent here. I see it as a circle - one thing leads to the other and that leads back to itself.

[Ninjazzed]

I agree with pretty much everything you said except for one thing.

Women aren’t natural-born followers. That’s extremely biased nonsense. Everyone is born to compete as he/she chooses to direct their own path in life. Just as all men aren’t natural-born leaders, there are exceptions for every gender.

[ronaldo75]

Skipstop - I think it's more the fault of men. Women by nature take trends and fads and run them into ground blindly as long as it allows them into the "cool crowd". That's what 3rd wave feminism has been. Women who aren't oppressed letting their egos run wild because they're living in a time where they're being told every two seconds that boys are stupid and "the future is female". THis has been the biggest ego trip any generation of women have been given on a silver platter.

That said, men should've had the balls back in 2015-2016 to nip this shit in the bud by telling them none of us were going to apologize for being MALE and that they were welcome to go fuck themselves. Look at woman today. NONE of the statistics or metrics are showing that women have made any progress. It was all talk.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

@ronaldo75 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 I wouldn’t be surprised if your IQ is over 200.

[ronaldo75]

@Ninjazzed Women aren't natural-born followers but the average woman does follow the crowd and latches on to fads and trends no matter how ridiculous. I've worked in advertising and you'd be surprised how much y'all are manipulated. There are fashion trends and beauty products that women by blindly that in a million years you could NEVER sell to a man. In the west over 70+% of retail purchases are made by women. SEVENTY PERCENT. This is why malls are flooded with female clothing stores and why so many stores put the men's clothing in the back of the store or the basement. 3rd wave feminism was a hustle that fucked women over LOVELY.

[ronaldo75]

LOL Thanks :) I have my moments haha

[Ninjazzed]

@ronaldo75 I rarely shop or read newspaper ads, like I said.. stop trying to generalize.

[Ninjazzed]

@ronaldo75 Matter of fact, I don’t follow any “trend” or magazine article.

Men have romanticized the idea to make it appeal more to women.

[ronaldo75]

@Ninjazzed I said average woman. You know what average means right? I'm not generalizing. Generalizing would be if I said ALL women, which I didn't

[ronaldo75]

@Ninjazzed Go to any high school or collage, advertise some stupid ass song that is accompanied by an idiotic dance. Then come back a week later and tell me how many boys are doing the dance and mumbling the song in class and how many girls are doing it - do NOT lie and it won't be the girls because you know it's true.

[ronaldo75]

college*

[Ninjazzed]

@ronaldo75 Oh, that’s easy. There’s an app for that. It’s called Tik Tok lmao. And the majority of women are “average” so to speak so you may as well just be referring to women in general. And yes, you implied it.

It’s really a give or take. No need for a social experiment. Strange analogy but of course, most social media platforms like Twitter or FB have already proven that it’s an equal amount, not just women who follow these idiotic trends.

[ronaldo75]

@Ninjazzed No, no it's necessary but it's true. Women are more suspectible to fads than men are, that's not even up for debate. THe capitalist aspect of feminism was 100% vital to putting politics where they are today and it's worked.

[updog45]

As a man I naturally want to blame women for this, which is clear as day. But part of me wants to blame men for letting it happen. I think gender roles are important, there is definitely something wrong today. The leading cause of death in men is suicide I think I read ( I could be wrong), mental illness seems more prevalent. Men are retracting into video games, fantasy sports and things of that nature. Testosterone levels in men have been sloping off since 1987 ( heard this in a podcast, I don't know how they got the exact date). This is not going to be good for society.

[fox1fox2]

Too me I feel like it's more both men and women that are at fault and not because anyone did anything it's partly because of the media and politicians that are more at fault for what is going on. But I can agree to disagree with what is happening because of how much we look to the media and politicians and social media and society as a whole because of how things are now a days but personally I don't think it's really anyone's fault but because it's really partly because of media and politicians who are mostly to blame for the things that are happening now days but you can like or dislike are whatever but in the end it's not really anyone's fault but the media and politicians but no one really is to blame for it it's because of the media and politicians not really anyone in specific.

[Anonymous]

Gender roles are just a social construct, it's all based on stereotypes invented by patriarchal religions.
In reality, every person is different, not all women are the same, and not all men are the same.
Therefore, everyone should pick their "role" individually, not based on their biological gender.
Even in stone age - not all the cavemen were hunters, some of them were medicine men, witchdoctors or cave painters.
On the other hand, some stone age figurines and cave paintings show female huntresses, which implies that tomboyish women have existed in prehistoric times, long time before judeo-christian-islamic religion started oppressing women and imposing the passive/submissive "gender role" on them.

[ronaldo75]

Men. We as men should've stood up to 3rd feminism 5 years ago and told them to fuck themselves. Instead men started acting like little girls and gave women's ego the space and free range to get out of control. 2018 and 2019 have largely been the collapse of SJW-ism and it's obvious SJWs have lost TREMENDOUS amount of power compared to the hysteria of 2016-2017 but it's already done enough damage that won't be repaired for about 5 or 10 years.

[themaker39]

Excuse me but please help me understand what happened during those years. I was in a (bad) relationship from 2016 and now that I'm starting to recover the world is a lot different and more fucked up that I've ever seen. Women behave worse than the rapists that by the way they talk about all day long.

[Metallsturm]

> Who's At Fault For Biologically Reversed Gender Roles In Our Time

[YHL6965]

I think it's just society evolving, letting people being whoever they want to be but I think therapy should be more common place because a lot of behaviors are due to wounds of the past and therapy could help with that.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

True 👍🏻

[lightbulb27]

I agree both genders and societies evolution. Men don't have to go chase down a wildabeast anymore for winters dinner. Testosterone has dropped. Women have greatly progressed in power.

[updog45]

Testosterone in men has been dropping every year since 1987, I dont think many western men were chasing wildebeests in 1987.

[Anonymous]

Neither men or women are at fault. But feminism is the real culprit.

[OfDeath]

Men for our inclusion policies geared towards women.
Frankly, society should've just left it at men do all the hard, important jobs and women raise the kids.

[Anonymous]

I agree with most of this. But at the end of the day, feminism is at fault for biologically reversed gender roles. Anyone with a shred of honesty can see that.

[broncobryan]

I dont think gender roles are reversed. I think it's more acceptable now to try new stuff, basically there's no "taboo" anymore.

[themaker39]

Men, because we didn't put an end feminism when we should have.

[WhiteShoulder]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting this.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

Thank you :)

[WhiteShoulder]

Welcome 😊

[bamesjond0069]

Women and beta cucks. There is just too many women who are misbehaving and too many men that cave to an emotional woman instead of telling her to shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous]

Confidence only matters if you're physically attractive. At the end of the day, if you're not handsome, then you'll never be attractive to women.

[Anonymous]

It's the Independence of the modern women.

[Rica_ChicaUSA]

That’s part of it. That’s what I meant at the end by the Society part. I just couldn’t think of a way to word it, so thank you for wording it for me.

[Anonymous]

Nobodies fault just signed the times