Don't fall for Gender Issue Grifters!

[Lynx122]

I've been thinking about this for a while. There will always be lot of young men who haven't found their direction, don't know themselves well yet and I agree that life for a young man is pretty shitty. Like everybody thinks you have it the best everybody has high expectations of you but nobody cares about you.

So it can be very tempting to listen to people online who actually talk about things like they get what you're going through, they make content that's actually targeting you and not the general public.

But it can lead you to very dark places. In the beginning it's just about being understood but then the blame starts coming in. Who's fault is it that things are difficult for you? It's feminists and women, liberals etc.

Traditional conservative lifestyle is better for everyone but these leftists are ruining it etc. This is what it always leads to. In the end you'll feel like the whole world is your enemy and is victimizing you in some way. You'll always be angry and that is very dangerous. If you're not careful it can happen without you really noticing, until you wake up and ask yourself how did I get to this place?

Jordan Peterson is honestly the worst because he comes across so innocent. He just wants guys to clean up their room and be disciplined and have purpose. And then he talks about traditionally masculine and feminine characters in movies and stories and he's a professor so it all comes across very academic and professional but it still leads to the same place. There's a broad spectrum of channels some are more lighthearded and funny some(most) are more based on outrage and ridicule but it's the combined effect that's th problem if you get sucked into this world view and see everything through this lens it's not good for you.

In the end none of these people care about you either they're just taking advantage of the uncertainty and struggle you're going through to make themselves relevant and successful and make money. And people aren't actually as bad as it may seem to you. Women are actually great and if you can restore your inner peace then you will be able to see that as well.

Thank you for reading :)

[OpenClose]

Totally agreed.

Best thing I can recommend for people is to avoid echo chambers, and learn to love the feeling of being legitimately proven wrong. Remaining independent can help you stay closer to the truth.

I don't mind Jordan Peterson *that* much, he makes good points on some things and bad points on others.

But like having gone down the rabbit hole of some of this stuff, it gets toxic fast.

I think the issue with teenage boys is that there aren't a lot of people acknowledging their issues and insecurities as legitimate, so they latch on to any mentors they can. And a lot of the few mentors they can find are PUA authors who will exploit their insecurities to sell books that tell them how they are supposed to be and act, calling it "being an alpha male" but ultimately coming down to some sort of court-jestering that they either fall for, or get embittered by, but rarely deny.

Teenage boys need good mentors, but aren't especially well-served by many people, who either tell them to "man up" or tell them their insecurities are illegitimate because only women get to have them, which I consider largely the same thing.

So like when I see guys falling into Incel shit, I don't feel angry at them. I just want to see them snap out of it and realize that women are not nearly as hostile towards men as these groups would have you believe. I was never an *incel* per se, but I did get involved in similar groups. Having gotten out of it, I can say things feel a LOT better.

One group I did find that (at least so far) is relatively non-toxic is r/leftwingmaleadvocates, because they are still women's-rights adcovates, but just apply a lot of the same principles to men. Again, I say "so far" because these tend to fall apart.

If your insurance covers it, I recommend therapy/counseling when possible as they will take your issues seriously and without judgment. I've been able to discuss false accusations against me that took me down that rabbit hole in the first place, and talk out some issues and traumas I picked up while I was down there as well. All of it is just accepted as valid, which is what I think these boys and young men need.

[Lynx122]

Thank you :) You understood what I was talking about and expressed it really well.

[ADFSDF1996]

Basically what you are saying is that you want men to pretty much be sycophants towards society and if you are a conservative your opinion doesn’t matter.

Groups like the Red pill and the MRA exist because they are tired of society and far left wingers trying to impose their bull shit on to them, not because they are so called “sexists”. In fact many women sympathize with the Red pill and the MRA because they realize that Far left wing groups are a bunch of hypocrites who are more interested in putting certain demographics above the so called “privileged” as opposed to actually promoting equality.

[Lynx122]

It's funny that the make fun of people for being triggered and playing the victim but this is exactly that it's about men feeling lie they're victims of society and the issues in their lives are societies fault. That's the message that's underneath a lot of these channels on youtube.

[ADFSDF1996]

Only the naive and sycophants think that society doesn’t mistreat men.

1.) Why do men get harsher sentences than women?

2.) Why are there no organizations that help men but there are many organizations that help women?

3.) Why are there more homeless men than homeless women?

4.) Why are pinkos so offended by the idea of implementing a female draft for the military?

Why are men painted as being the only ones capable of being “creeps”?

ETC

[MzAsh]

Jordan Peterson is a Christian and that’s where his trad con gender values come from. He at times seems unaware that much of society doesn’t share the same values at him and how unhappy they’d be if they took his trad gender role advice. Another one who is guilty of this is Lori Alexander.

[Julie4]

This guy even created internships to revirilize men 🤣

Honestly I don't know what kind of people pay for this crap but Jordan is a genius to have so many pigeons as a client.

[Logan_V96]

Jordan Peterson is an agnostic, not a Christian.

[MzAsh]

Lol so he might say

[Anonymous]

I agree that one shouldn't allow their anger to control them, but there are definitely gender issues worth being angry about today, especially if you're a man in the West.

You have your head up your ass if you actually think Jordon Peterson "the worst". He's one of the few voices in the collective conversation about gender issues today who is worth listening to and has unique and valuable things to say. Most people who have a problem with him are liberals who just don't like the fact that he doesn't support their liberal philosophies. It's the worst kind of dishonesty because you plug your ears and shut your eyes and never allow yourself to understand the value in what he has to say.

I'm not a conservative, by the way. I try to approach things without the bias the left and the right typically do, and evaluate things without that bias. Most liberals and conservatives today are extremely dishonest, and you seem to be no exception. They're like sports fans who defend their team, both the good and the bad. It's what's wrong with America today.

[Lynx122]

I think he's the worst not because he's the most extreme or so but because he reaches out to people who would otherwise never get into this mentality he acts like a funnel. Maybe only one in ten people who watch his videos start watching other videos about mens issues, mgtow etc. Not every part of this is bad. But it can lead to a very toxic place if you're not careful that's all I'm saying.

[Opinion Owner]

So you're saying watching videos by someone who offers positive and constructive messages might lead to them watching bad videos? By that logic, someone eating broccoli might lead to them taking drugs.

[Phoenix-gb]

You've certainly hit the nail on the head in that it's about people caring, unfortunately it's often times that people don't care about them the way they want them to, i. e. romantically or sexually, which is why it's easy to shift the blame to feminists and women's liberation. The message they're getting from these areas is 'Women don't need men' so they start to question why they're around in the first place.

I don't know the solution, I'm still stuck not being good enough for any woman, at least that's the impression I'm given, but I've managed to avoid blaming anyone (other than myself) or any group no matter how far down it's pushed my mental state. But can see how those people would appeal and I would definitely be the target audience were I 15-20 years younger.

[DarkWinterNights]

They have an audience because no one else bothers to reach out to young men. Look at the stats, young men on average are in a horrible place. Deaths rates, depression, poverty, violence, suicide, substance abuse, divorce court, workplace deaths, combat deaths, imprisonment, and no one cares.


If you want to lead young men away from what you consider a dark path, then you need to propose a positive life changing alternative to literally save their lives. Simply telling them to ignore the problems society throws on them and just deal with it is exactly why more and more men are detaching from relationships and society itself.

[Lynx122]

What exactly am I supposed to do to save every young man in the world? :D I do think society should give them more guidance, structure etc. I have my hands full with my own life for real.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Here is my take on this...
We are at a place where what socially worked for our grandfathers and father's, doesn't work for us. Society, politics and gender norms are different now and people are well to aware of it.
Some people think this is awful. That the old days were good and that today is just a mess going against our "nature".
Other say in the past people were forced into a bubble, not able to be who they were, with repressed emotions and social norms that denied people's freedom to be.
What is true? Somewhere is the middle. Somethings should stay in the past, others should be kept.

[Catlover1999]

I don’t think Jordan Peterson’s intention is to make you play the blame game. His messages are positive and it’s on you (not you specifically but people in general) if you’re taking it the wrong way and blaming others for your own problems, like incels and MGTOW guys do.

[Lynx122]

He definitely leans heavily towards a conservative world view though.

[Godsvengeance]

@Lynx122 why is a conservative worldview automatically bad? Men and women are objectively different and any attempts to erase that basic human nature is subject to failure. He (and the vast majority of other conservatives) are not advocating for some destruction of women's rights as you seem to believe.

[KlinkyCoder]

I have to agree with this one here, I don't think Peterson has any true malice intent.

[Godsvengeance]

You have clearly never actually read Peterson's books or actually listened to him. He doesn't bash women or anything like that. He doesn't make victims. He specifically does the opposite by telling you to "clean your room" and fix yourself. To stop looking for others to blame.
As for you making this a left/right issue, are you pretending that there aren't, as you put it, gender grifters on the left? Are you claiming that there aren't obvious, substantial, and important differences between girls and boys, men and women?

[captain_voidwalker]

Here is all you need to know about bieng a man. Society has now, always has, and will forever find it more convenient to step over your corpse then help you to your feet. You either learn to live with that realization or get driven insane by it.

[Lynx122]

Kinda true :D

[Crucis84]

"Traditional conservative lifestyle is better for everyone..."
Rubbish. I never wanted the traditional lifestyle at any point in my entire life. I never married, had children, a career or any of the other "traditional" trappings, and I'm glad, I'm happy and content. :)
There are many others like me, and that is why the "traditional conservative lifestyle" is dying a slow and painful death. Good riddance to it I say!

[SuccessfulHornDog]

The largest groups of "victims" who fall for this type of hatred are blacks and females. They are actively encouraged to blame others for their plight. For some reason you are trying to shine a shadow on the smallest group that is currently behaving like this

[Lynx122]

It's not good for you if you do it no matter how many other people are doing it or not. It's not about blaming it's a warning.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

Then you should warn the other groups as well

[Lynx122]

I don't have any experience with being black or female so I can't write about that.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

You mean that you are not brave enough to write about that. Have any real men ever come out of Switzerland or are they all frightened children?

[Lynx122]

You mean there's not enough white guys whining about black people and women? I would really make the difference if I wrote a mytake about that :D. You're really tough bro you're so confident that you have pictures of men you'd like to be like as your profile. I'm so impressed.

[Jamie05rhs]

I don't believe in gender identity politics, either. I do, however, believe that class warfare is real, and I believe that it's okay to recognize that.

[Wester1967]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/GtwP6AbbAUc

Peterson made his own karma

[bamesjond0069]

So are you a gay or something like that then? I'm not sure what would offend you about Jordan Peterson unless you are a gay or tranny or purple haired feminist freak.

[Anonymous]

If you read The Rational Male you'd understand that The Red Pill isn't sexist or a lie. It's simply explaining what men have felt forever but been unable to explain.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

It's true that men face challenges in today's society. But don't chose those outlets for information. The red pill group is good in theory. A place where men talk about men things, but most of them are bitter misguided fools.

[Godsvengeance]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 most of everywhere is bitter, misguided fools; why only pick on that particular group (which I know nothing about by the way so I'm not defending them per say)

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Godsvengeance don't get me wrong, feminism is also full of butter misguided fools.
Both groups have a great base message, but a terrible execution.

[Godsvengeance]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 and therein lies my point. I am confused by the original poster sending a one sided message when his criticisms are universally true of all sides of all issues

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Godsvengeance you can address one thing at the time. Discussions about flaws and merits of either side don't have to involve the other. They can. But don't have to

[Godsvengeance]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 I agree with this, but the obvious message of his myTake wasn't just that philosophy A is flawed, it was that philosophy B is better. My point is that if you take the cons of anything and only compare them to the pros of another thing, then the pros will win every time. I have no issue with listing the cons of a philosophy somebody wants to see less off but it's disingenuous to, in the same take, compare those cons exclusively to the pros of your chosen side and conveniently leave out the pros of the other side or your own side's cons. I would have preferred he just stuck with his criticisms without the unfair comparison.

[anylolone]

Holly gosh, the harms of...
Jordan Peterson?

[OddBeMe]

Wait…young white men have it shitty?

[EffaMan]

I agreed