For the Black community: Is it time to give up on White activism?

[Datboi65]

This is one of those difficult topics I tend to find myself thinking about from time to time. I find myself in a constant dilemma. On the one hand, I have been called an ape/monkey/ni**er etc by racist white people, and so have many other Black people. On the other hand, I have White friends that I would take a bullet for, and they would do the same for me too. However, it's more complicated than that.

To understand what I mean by the title, let's take it back a few steps. You see, if you are reading this and you are a Conservative/right-winger, you can click off right now, because this mytake is not for you. Far-right politics and racism are so in your face, it is very easy to identify and detect. This is to address all the centrists/liberals who speak on Black issues.

Politically, I identify as a centrist. Most of my friends are either centrists or liberals. The same people that have mostly posted a Black square on their Instagram page on June the 2nd, 2020 and have gone quite ever since. The same that have elected the author of the notorious 1994 crime bill that have caused mass incarceration of Black men, under support of Republicans and Democrats, and a woman who was a DA and got many Black people locked up for petty charges. They have elected a man who in his campaign talked about how police brutality is a real issue, and then after he was elected said that the only way to end police violence is "funding the police".

But that's just one piece of the puzzle. You see, a lot of you reading this might have people in your family that are racist, bit you don't say anything because you love them. "It's harmless" you think. "My parents are good people, they are just ignorant". Nobody is telling you to hate your relatives, just correct them in the most polite way you can. You don't to be disrespectful either, but bringing up the topic serves a greater good than not mentioning anything about ignorant comments.

Now, let's talk about political outcomes. Let's talk about how Biden was nominated as a representative of the Democratic party over Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Let's talk about how they most white people still vote Republican, and the one's that do vote Democrat do so because "it's the party of the lesser evil". Truth be told, all this is about is a popularity contest of which White supremacist should be put in power, all while the Black community continues to suffer from over-policing and more COVID deaths. And this isn't just about the last election, but historically Black people were always asked to be patient and that "change is coming", only to have their agenda swiped under the rug after the election. Now all of a sudden, climate change and stimulus checks are more important issues than his campaign promise of ensuring police accountability, when he famously said "if you don't vote for me you ain't Black".

I don't believe the answer is joining the other side, the side that started the Vietnam War, War on drugs, the "super predators" term on young Black youth, invasion if Iraq and supported insseructionists to break into the Capitol is the answer to that either. I believe more and more people should see the flaws in a system that doesn't work, and try their best to change it.

Unfortunately, I do not have the answers to the issue, but it doesn't take away the pain that Black people have experienced. And if you are Black and are reading this, ask yourself the same question. Are we expecting too much? Should we give up on the idea of White America changing? Or is the answer to be "more patient?"

[ragooo8]

Not sure what you mean. The democrats were the ones who drafted young 28 year old men who weren't going to college for Vietnam, you can imagine how disproportionate the draft was in the 1960s in terms of demographics.
It was LBJ who started the war on drugs, nixon carried it on through and every president since has carried it through. Quite frankly it funds the CIA's off the books wars abroad.
Super predator is something hillary said when she and Bill were cracking down on crime, this policy put a huge amount of young black men in prision.
Will give the ilegal invasion of Iraq OK but don't forget the democrats supported it. Then let's not forget Obama's illegal drone bombing campaign in about 20 countries that the US was not at war with as well as toppling the governments of sovereign nations.
Elizabeth Warren once lied about her race to get a job a 400k per year job.
Don't believe either democrats or republicans they all do the bidding of their corporate sponsors. For instance Obama sold more guns than the NRA. Our government is corrupt. Wasn't too long ago hillary was taking donations for the clinton foundation for political favours.
Black folks in America would be better off becoming more conservative and more self reliant on themselves. Start prepping, there's going to be some tough years ahead, learn from hurricane katrina. Start storing water, storing dried foods, storing canned foods, smoking and salting meats to preserve them, growing your own vegetables, preserving fruit and veg. Arming themselves and stockpiling ammo. Too many Americans are blowing their earnings servicing debts thd incurred buying stuff on credit, if you look at the commercials they are directing it at African Americans.

[Datboi65]

Lots of things to unpack, but let's go:

A) It was President Eisenhower, a Republican who officially started the Vietnam War in 1955. What followed was a 2 decade long unnecessary, very unpopular conflict that took the lives of many Vietnamese and disgraced America. However, my focus is not on this, but on racism against Black people by both parties.

B) I already mentioned that I am a centrist, and my article criticized Democrats as much as it did for Republicans. I will give you points for the Elizabeth Warren situation, I actually did not know she claimed a false ethnicity. You learn everyday, right? However, you has nothing to say about Bernie. I may not agree with his economics, but I respect his activism.

C) The Drone program was created under the Bush administration, but was classified. Obama unclassified it, but he did abuse the program. However, all things considered that is still a fraction of the damage the Iraq war has done. Once again, I will revert back to the topic.

[Datboi65]

D) The 90's were very different, in you have to understand that the political climate at the time in general was overall more conservative. The Ronald Reagan administration ruled throughout the 80's, and then George H. W. Bush towards the late 80's and early 90's. The crack epidemic in the 80's created a surge in crime, except rather than choosing effective rehabilitative policies to treat addicts, the government locked up large amounts of Black men for "possession" even when there was no intent to sell. Of course, this means more pressure put by Republicans on Democrats to act, and thus the bill. Even the the older generations of the Black Panthers were on board with the program, and it most affected young Black people. Another example of that is with how George Bush's ratings went up after 9/11, so much so that Democrats have agreed to join the war. Republican pressure is a real thing. Now, I have to correct you on something. LBJ didn't formally start the war on drugs, but his administration studied it. In the Commission of Law Enforcement's 1967 report titled "narcotics and drug abuse" and they addressed the causes of illicit drug use and the consequences. Interesting enough, even at the time they realized that over-policing will not end the problem. It was President Nixon who officially launched the "War on Drugs" and Ronald Reagan who demonized urban communities for the use of crack cocaine. Funny enough now that the "opioid crisis" has started affecting white people, they started treating it more as a medical issue and not a criminal one.

[Datboi65]

Ultimately, I am willing to work with whoever is willing to work for my people. Think of it like this: if you are 14% of the population, your vote only means 14% to them. They will try to get your vote to increase their numbers, but then they will stop giving a shit after you gave them your vote. Education and infrastructure cannot be fixed by "individuals" but by the government. The "separate but equal policy" of Jim Crow just ended in 1964 by LBJ, and it had placed Black America decaded behind. You will have individuals that will exceed out of any population, but at the end of the day in statistics an observable pattern is more important than "anecdotal evidence".

[ragooo8]

A. Truman was involved in the Vietnam war before Eisenhower.
B. Elizabeth Warren and her fake ethnicity isms well known. Bernie though I don't believe entirely on most of his politics he's less corrupt and I would have voted for him or tutsi gabardine has the ran for 2016 or 2020.
C. The drone programme predates Bush. Obama stepped it up, no more putting terror suspects into guantamamo, just execute them via drone regardless of civilian casualties. The drone campaign made the problems caused by the Iraq invasion worse ie ISIS in Syria, Libya, Iraq, yemen. He expanded the fighting into multiple other countries.
D. Nixon just ran with what the Lyndon Johnson put in place, if a democrat had been elected they would have ran with it. The democrats supported the clintons crime bill, the bill was brought in to distract from the Clinton's various scandals.

[ragooo8]

Change and advancement comes from within. No use in the government spoon feeding you. The democrats give black folks scraps for votes. Black folks need to build up their own communities like other successful minorities on this country.

[Datboi65]

Yes, but the difference between the Black community and "other minorities" is that they haven't been through slavery and Jim Crow. Immigration can be difficult I assume, but it's much easier to build generational wealth as an immigrant as opposed to being a descent of slaves, because we cannot overlook the damage that segregation has done to the Black community. These were governmental economic policies that targeted the Black community, and only way for that to be reversed is through governmental action. Rather than black people moving out of "the hood" to more middle-class white neighborhoods after climbing the economic ladder, the route cause of why things are the way they are should be addressed first, so nobody has to move anywhere and instead black neighborhoods can become a better and safer place.

[ragooo8]

Lol that's such a cop out. Your basically saying a Jamaican can come here from a country with real poverty with nothing but the shirt on his back and succeed where an African American can not because of slavery.
Generational wealth is something the 1% do not working or middle class people.

[Datboi65]

This is what I call "selective reading". Slavery AND Jim Crow, more emphasis being on Jim Crow. I don't know if you know, but Jamaicans have also gone through slavery. Did you know that African immigrants are more likely to hold a degree than Caucasians? Look up their stats, they are actually doing very well. It's easier for individuals to succeed, than for an entire population in the face of obstacles, especially with the fact that they do not have that history of segregation and loan discrimination.

Generational wealth definition: any type of asset that families pass down to their children and grand children. Inheritance counts as a form of generational wealth, and doesn't necessarily have to be a large sum. Middle-class families absolutely do qualify, long as your children do not end up homeless after your passing, you've done your job.

[Datboi65]

Also, you wrote another reply I didn't see.

A) Truman was pressured by Republicans to get involved, so he approved a $23 million aid program to the French. However, it was Eisenhower who formally declared war. Go read that again.

B) Creation of I. S. I. S. was due to the dissolving of the Iraqi military after the invasion. Now you have plenty of men jobless, trained and hungry for vengeance with nothing to lose. Obama pulled out of Iraq with no exit plan, and they assembled and created a militia that grew bigger and bigger.

C) Here's one article you can go and read about the War on drugs and the LBJ administration:

www.google.com/.../the-government-knew-the-war-on-drugs-was-doomed-from-the-start

The politicization and dangerous rhetoric about urban communities and crack cocaine has been the work of the Republican party, and the 94 crime bill was a bipartisan effort that Republicans did not oppose, so don't take accountability away from them.

[ragooo8]

See your trying to dress things up in fancy words as a form of denial. Until you take self responsibility nothing will ever change.

A. Truman was the president who won ww2, nobody pressured him into anything. Eisenhower never formally declared war on North Vietnam, in fact no declaration of war was ever made. Technically the US was never at war.
B. Isis was a sub group of Al queada that basically took over alqueda and used Obama's attempted over throw of Assad to recruit Syrian rebels Obama trained, armed and funded.
C. When all is said and done the clintons put a disproportionate amount of blacks in jail.

[hahahmm]

Begging white people to save you is pathetic. There's tons of black people who have become successful without thinking that they need a white person's sympathy/pity/help.

It's strange you didn't mention the BLM side that was led by marxists lesbian black women who don't give 1 crap about black men but didn't mind collecting millions of dollars. Don't take my word for it. Go look up what George Floyd's own mom said about BLM. I'm not surprised because I have often preached against hardcore feminists. I'm amused that so many male suckers would think those women were righting for them. You also didn't mention all the violence done in the name of BLM that affected innocent shop owners and regular people.

I used to talk to a hardcore black liberal on here about Malcom X. He would get real upset because I'm conservative but I respect & admire Malcom X. He wanted to claim that only liberals can like Malcom X. See, that right there is part of the problem with liberals: trying to dictate to others what they can and can't think and say. Malcom X. was a very deep thinker. What conclusion did he eventually come to about white people? That black people shouldn't hate them. Of course, for those who have less self-control & don't think very deeply it's easier to hate others.

Go listen to some Thomas Sowell on YouTube. He's a black conservative who grew up in Harlem way back in the day. All of the same issues people debate today were being debated back in the 60s and liberals never solved a single problem that they claim to have all the answers to.

[Datboi65]

(Part 1/3) I think I have made it clear enough on this article that I am a centrist, not a liberal. Here's why I am:

1) I am a capitalist.
2) I am definitely not a feminist.
3) I am pro-life and pro-death penalty.

I am also for Black Civil Rights, environmental issues and gun control.

[Datboi65]

(Part 2/3) I can care less about BLM the organization, I care more about my people not getting killed by police. Whatever name you want to put on it, so be that. One thing you didn't know about MalcomX, is that he was a separatist. In other words, he didn't trust White people. He said Black people can use "any means necessary" to get their civil rights, that was at the height of Jim Crow in the 60s and the civil rights era. Only towards his last years did he start to become more moderate, after visit Meccah for Hajj and returned home. That was what changed his perspective, not him agreeing with White conservatives. MLK that conservatives like to quote so much has said that "rioting is the language of the unheard". Do you just pick and choose what you want to quote to fit your agenda, without paying attention to the whole character?

[Datboi65]

(Part 3/3) Also, find me where I said in here that "I hate white people". Find me where I said "they should come and save us". It's all some stuff you came up with, so don't put words into my mouth. Individuals can absolutely find success in spite of hardship, my father is a living proof of that. However, populations cannot. That's why I go by statistics rather than anecdotes. School districts are not as equipped as in White majority areas, high drop-out rate, low graduation rate, poverty and crime are all linked. The less you have to lose, the more likely you are to engage in risky behavior. I have never had an urge to steal, because a) it goes against my morals and b) I grew up with food on the table. How can you claim to be logical and go by data and statistics, but then turn around and use emotional arguments and anecdotes? Really? "Hate white people?" Giving up on White people basically means we no longer fight for equity, but dominance. Same way they have, so it would require from us to throw morals away and dehumanize them like they have done to us. You want to throw someone in the desert, but when they come back you expect them to give you a high-five? I don't agree with that narrative, but I know a lot of people who do. Becoming successful in spite of obstacles makes you crave revenge, and that's one thing you cannot blame anyone for.

[hahahmm]

I mentioned BLM because you mentioned violence of conservatives but not of liberals. Yes, I know Malcom X was for separatism and I disagree with that just like I disagree with white separatists. Plus the U. S. is the wrong country to try and start an all black society within. If you want to try that, a part of Africa would be better because you never have the threat of a majority who looks different disagreeing with you. Not that I think it would work anyhow... there's probably a reason why in African nations people are banned from political office based on their skin color. Culture is the main thing people run into disagreements about.

Oh, you also said of Malcom: "Only towards his last years did he start to become more moderate, after visit Meccah for Hajj and returned home. That was what changed his perspective, not him agreeing with White conservatives". -- And? That's like saying, well this astronomer discovered the earth revolves around the sun on his own, not by reading other astronomer's works. Doesn't change the fact that he found the better way. As you get older you figure this out.

"Find me where I said "they should come and save us". Your subject is "... is it time to give up on white activism". Yeah, I would say looking to white activism for something is pathetic. Show me someone who has been waiting for white activists to save him & I will show you somebody who is controlled -- probably unknowingly - by white activists who don't actually give 1 crap about them as they pretend to. Which as you know, is something else Malcom understood.

[hahahmm]

Oops. I meant to say, that's probably why in Africa people are NOT banned from political office based on skin color.

[hahahmm]

Far as school districts/white areas -- and? Life isn't fair. If I told you your town was a nuclear dump site and green people liked putting nuclear waste in there, you'd be a fool to stay there for 40+ years, complaining about green people. You'd be wise to move yourself and your kids to a safer area. I'm all about being constructive in life & taking responsibility for myself and my family. That's why you have people who sacrifice to put their kids in private schools (if needed) or move to the right neighborhood/town/state, whatever. And it's never just about skin color. There's always a lot of factors that liberals love to overlook. While most conservatives don't overlook the whole picture. Yes, there's some racist a-holes. Seems like one side has more because the liberal ones are undercover. Smiling while they stab you in the back. Anyhow...

[Datboi65]

1) I never said I am for separatism either. When you are quoting a character, you gotta take the good with the bad. This is why I cringe when I see conservatives quoting MLK, but are dead-silent about the riot rhetoric. My opinion? I totally agree. After the Philando Castile case in 2016, it's totally justified. When people continue to die with no response from authorities, you better believe their will be a public uproar. While it's true MalcomX has spoken out against White liberals, let's not get it twisted and pretend he liked conservatives, because he didn't. He had family members that were killed by the KKK, and you don't see no KKK members voting Democrat. You don't see no democrats carrying Confederate flags. And when you say "you mentioned violence of conservatives not liberals" this is not a tit-for-tat thing. I mentioned my experience with racism and didn't put a word of "Democrats" or "Republicans" into it. Wanna know 9/10 what party those people that like call others n words usually support? Also, didn't mention "BLM violence" because it's irrelevant. Statistically speaking, only 7% of protests were violent. Don't believe me? Go ahead and google that. Once again, ignoring statistics and using anecdotes.

[Datboi65]

2) "White activism" or "allyship" is when White folks choose to support a particular civil rights movement. Easy for you to say "pathetic" when you're not outnumbered 5 to 1. Idc how strong you are, you will get whooped if you get jumped by 5 people. Black people make up 14% of the country, where's the logic in saying that despite the obstacles that were continue to be placed on them, they can still "move to better neighborhoods". I mean really? Like they would just love to stay in the gutter where all the crime is? Lmao. My family Iives in the suburbs, but I've seen some rough ghettos in my time, and let me tell you the people there don't want to stay. If only you can get the money to move out, but then remember the bad education => less degrees => less people qualified to work white collar jobs => more people have to work labor-intensive blue collar jobs that don't pay well => more people will try to make money illegally (because if you got nothing to lose, that's when more people take risks) => more incarceration. That's called "red-lining". The district were designed in such a way to invest in White communities and neglect Black neighborhoods. Once again, go ahead and Google that stuff. Do you even know what "mass-immigration" of Black people to suburbia would look like? It's not a possibility. Most Black folks really just want to fix their neighborhoods, because entire cities would turn into ghost-towns if they "just left" like you say, assuming they had the financial resources to relocate, which let's be honest isn't a possibility for all.

[Datboi65]

3) You seem to have problems taking accountability. I have already criticized liberals, and when I pointed out racist policies of red-lining, you still said and I quote "Yes, there's some racist a-holes. Seems like one side has more because the liberal ones are undercover. Smiling while they stab you in the back. Anyhow..." which is just a half-ass response really. Show me if it was really the liberals that came up with that policy, and don't pretend that red-lining isn't a thing when you see run-down schools and neighborhoods, and better schools. The phenomenon was due to loan discrimination. It was believed that "negros being property values down", and they were banned from the suburbs and lynched if they tried to move there. Google that. Less capital = worse living conditions, and thus what we have today. You what now you want to tell me that's their fault too? Jim Crow just ended in 1964, so the effects of those policies are still felt today. If you don't give a damn, just say it and move on. Easier for you to do that than bring out analogies about "green people" and whatnot in response to a real event that has impacted a whole group. Everything I said can be fact-checked, so feel free to google.

[hahahmm]

Actually my response to you weren't meant to be a personal attack on you which you seem to take it all as. I can understand why you feel that way about my claim that expecting "white activism" is pathetic tho. That said: #1 I never said Malcom X thought more highly of white conservatives than he did of white liberals! He just was smart enough to see that politics is about manipulating suckers. Something those who think liberals will save them are blind to.. And I'm smart enough to see that conservative values is what can hold a society together over the long term. Not the liberal's love of making grand social experiments & never admitting when they've made a mistake. #2 I said life isn't fair multiple times. Nobody is arguing that unfair things haven't happened. My point is people should focus on what they can change instead of waiting for some (white) messiah to fix everything for them. That's how every non-white person I've ever known who was successful did it. There's a reason why an immigrant can come from Africa and become rich or have their kids have top engineering degrees in 1 generation while another person can be 10 generations in this country and not -- but it's not REALLY about race, is it? It's about culture. There's tons of poor white people with horrible schools too but liberals ain't going to talk about that.

[hahahmm]

#3 I skimmed your point here but, " You what now you want to tell me that's their fault too? Jim Crow just ended in 1964, so the effects of those policies are still felt today". Not really. There's powerful & rich black people in every field in the U. S. One of the most successful investment companies is run by a black engineer. And even in the 60s and 70s there were a lot of black engineers too -- and I knew some when I was a kid. So don't even go there with me. You talk about me not taking responsibility? Strange, when you are claiming that someone who is too lazy to advance themselves isn't at fault but something that happened a generation ago is. Oh, and FYI, my parents happen to be black & lived Jim Crow. Luckily they didn't raise their kids to be victims. And zero of our social circle had that mentality. Next.

[Datboi65]

1) I already explained to you I am a centrist. If by "Conservative values" you mean a free market economy and freedom of speech, then I agree. If by "Conservative value" you mean racism, then that should definitely die. Liberals can be annoying with feminism and socialism, but they do not carry Confederate flags around. Conservatives do. I am not denying that leftists can be racist too, but Conservatives are generally more racist.

[Datboi65]

2) "I said life isn't fair multiple times" too easy for you to say. I know what hard work is, and what hard work looks like. I am a medical student, both my parents are pharmacists. My dad worked his ass off with all he had to get to where he is, even though he didn't have the easiest upbringing. I realize I am grateful to have both parents. Even then, your experiences and mine are anecdotes, and statistically speaking, exceptions don't make rules. I'm not concerned about possibility because I know it's possible. I concerned about probability. Some people start better than others, like myself for example. Some people do better than others in the face of obstacles. The fact of the matter is, Black people have more obstacles, and other communities cannot and should not have a say in what we complain about, until they have walked a mile in our shoes. Poor white school districts are the exception, not the majority. There's a difference, and the two are not even in the same league.

[Datboi65]

3) Oh really? Because statistics tell a very different story. Statistically speaking, only 3.3% of engineers of all different engineering fields are Black. The lowest of all ethnic groups. Engineering is one of those jobs that require - you guessed it - a degree. Tell me from where are we going to get people to work as engineers, or any other white collar career without a university degree. High-drop out rate, 19% graduation rate. HBCUs are underfunded, high schools are underfunded, but you know a lot of powerful Black engineers. And please miss me with the "my parents are black" bullshit, if you had any respect for them or their community, you wouldn't be here calling their people lazy. Immigrants have it better, because their situation changes in one generation, and is not cumulative over multiple generations. THAT'S the difference.

[RolandCuthbert]

Sometimes, I see these types of posts at Blackout. Do you know what Blackout is?

Well anyway, let's get to it.

1. We have to stop pretending that racists own the "White" race. Race does not exist and racists only own their pitiful pathetic lives.

2. With that said, there is still much to discuss between everyday "White" and "Black" folks. The conversation is weird because people keep claiming we only have racial differences and not cultural ones. This makes the exchange problematic because you cannot negotiate differences in understanding if you refuse to acknowledge that those differences exist.

3. Since race does not exist, you are going to have to remove the racial burdens you have been carrying around. You are also going to have to stop putting racial burdens on other people. I run a racial/cultural understand discussion group. If you want to join, pm me. Nothing prevents you from having "White" friends and building those bridges you want to see between these communities.

4. And again, since race does not exist, and the issue is differences in cultural perspectives, you are going to have to figure out how to look at this puzzle in more ways than "Black" and "White". This conversation affects all of us in America. And until we find a way to be inclusive of these other groups, we won't be able to really get a handle on the issues between "Black" and "White" people. Because again, we won't have any tools for bridging these differences in understanding.

5. And now for the biggest issue. Your political conclusions. I always find it interesting that folks try to marry issues of "Black" Empowerment to a political party. I don't understand the logic. We have a culture. We have a community. Therefore we have group concerns and issues. Some may have a possible political remedy. Others may not. But what I find problematic is the resistance to creating a platform, stating our issues clearly and defining a strategy. I think once we do that, we will see that not all things have a political remedy. Like creating more "Black" banks. Or finding more money for "Black" educational initiatives. Or creating entrepreneurship programs for "Black" youth. Some of these issues have a political component some do not. But we are not helping by not having some clearly articulated position and strategy for elimination of these issues. I think in terms of actual legislation, the only thing I have seen that was clear and concise was the George Floyd policing bill. But even then, not many "Black" people know even know what is in the bill

And that is a shame. We have to do better.

[Datboi65]

1) I think the conversation is not necessarily about whether or not "race" exists. We know race doesn't exist, not until the 1600s anyway. "Ethnicity" is a more appropriate word. However, the structure of society is in such a way that we have to address it so we can try and change it. I also didn't refer to "all white people" as racist, I said I have experienced racism from white people, and I also have friends that I adore who are Caucasian. The post was less directed at racists, more directed to fellow Black people and white liberals.

2) I actually agree with this point wholeheartedly. Culturally, we are very different, and that's where the bulk of the problems stem from. I will never claim that Black culture is perfect because there are things I believe should be changed, but when white people do not take accountability on their end and deflect, that's where I see there's a problem.

3) Race may not exist scientifically anyway, but sociologically the concept of race has had some really negative implications, and if we are to get rid of it, we first need to address it, and then work from there. Pretending that an issue doesn't exist will not fix anything.

[Datboi65]

4) My point was about inclusivity more than anything. Black people are the most loyal supporters of the Democratic party, and what have the results been since the 90s? Nothing. We are not included in their agenda. How are we going to work with people that throw us under the bus everytime we get them in office? As far as I am concerned, the Republican party is even worse.

5) Let me explain my position:
Most politicians are elected through the electoral college system, so people would have to vote. Depending on which party you choose, different policies are expected. Some could be beneficial to your agenda, others could be harmful. Black people usually vote Democrat, because Democrats can be persuasive to the Black community, telling then all they want to hear, and then taking it all away from them. Republicans mostly cater to Conservative Evangelicals and corporate millionaires, so Black people are not even in the picture. Also, there are platforms that already exist that address all of what you said. BLM is one, NAACP is another. These are the 2 main ones, but there are plenty of platforms that address the issues that face the community, and do suggest strategies to counter that. The question is, who will follow through on those strategies? Desegregation of housing for example is an issue, and "the hood" is still a reality for a lot of people. Education and the high drop-out rate is another big one. Even if all the richest Black celebrities in the country got together, they wouldn't solve it. As far as housing is concerned, it would take the Department of Housing and Urban Development to get involved. More investment would need to be placed in the school districts as well. This takes some level of political involvement.

[RolandCuthbert]

1. So this is the issue. If we know that race does not exist, why do people take the bait and respond to racists on their terms? It is quite obvious most "White" people do not believe or agree with fruitcake racists. And we have many more conversations to engage in. Like discussing the common ground for education, access to capital, creating community and fairness. Why do we go around in these endless cycles with racists just because they claim they are the ambassadors for "White" folks? You see, I am not saying you said anything about "White" folks as a group. I am saying that we collectively give racists too much credit. We have much too much to discuss with the everday "White" person on the street. And we should not conflate those two different perspectives.

2. I must say I can't agree with everything you post on this point. I think you and I think of culture differently. Sufficed to say, we have to negotiate these differences in understanding. The conversation is waiting and we refuse to engage in it.

3. Again, it is really hard to convert a racist. I mean just talk to some of the ones here. They cling to their beliefs as if those beliefs define their very existence. Why try to convince them to stop believing in race and racism, when you have millions of "White" folks who are trying to understand these divisions?

[RolandCuthbert]

4. But before that we were the most loyal members of the Republican party. Remember, Lincoln was a Republican. The abolitionists were Republicans. Frederick Douglas was a Republican. And I don't see the logic in complaining about what political parties will or will not do, when we have no "Black"/African-American agenda that we have created. We need our own platform written out and ratified by our people. And it is only "we" who can do it. The only piece of legislation I have seen in recent memory was the George Floyd policing act. That's the only political action that seems to have widespread buyin and approval from the community. But even then, if you ask a person about something like. . ."qualified immunity", they don't know what you are talking about. That is something we as a community have to fix.

5. Actually no. Most politicians are not elected through the Electoral college. The President is. I don't think you are looking at things in the right frame. I have heard this dems talking to "Black" people rhetoric before. And again, it does not matter. We need our own "Black" convention where we create a platform. To pretend this is all about politics is simply not helpful. Again, for instance, "Black" education should be the number one concern for our community. There maybe a poitical compoment that may include funding, or curriculum, etc.

But even if that failed, why would we not have a strategy in place to create schools, hire teachers, find funding, etc.

That should be done regardless. Just look at other communities. Jewish folks, Chinese, Koreans, etc. They do what they have to outside of politics.

[WhiteBoyChill]

So tell me why 90% of the black vote goes to Democrats if neither party works in their interest.

You too have some spine but I swear most of y’all are ignorant and naive beyond redemption

[RolandCuthbert]

@WhiteBoyChill I will do exactly was you ask.

When you suck my dick.

I can only give you the respect you are willing to give. So suck my dick and I will answer your question, while you suck it..

[Datboi65]

1) But we have to define racism first. The "racists" you are referring to are people like @WhiteBoyChill over here for example, but they are only a sector. The one's I am referring to are the one's who are the silent, but involved type. Not more in your face like calling someone the N word, but more subtle, like those who like Ronald Reagan for example. This is much more common than you think. The term for this is "closet racism".

2) I meant to say Black culture is very different from Caucasian American culture, or shall I say "cultures" depending on what part of the country they are. The difference is key to voting patterns, and certain views they might have of us. Example: hippies are more likely to be leftists, and Southerners are most likely to be conservative, although there might be exceptions in the mix, but exceptions don't make rules. That more or less determines how they see us.

3) Hard, but not impossible. You can either a) be as petty as they are, which probably will not change anything or b) have a civilized conversation with them and see where it goes. Even then, you are not guaranteed to get anywhere, but trying is better than not trying. I agree more attention should go towards those willing to learn, but you still have to try with others as well, because you cannot ignore them malignant tumor, can you?

[Datboi65]

4) Yes that's true, but not without context. Both parties switched polarity in the early period of the 20th century, so The Republican party became more conservative and the Democrats became more liberal, and thus they switched supporters as well. BLM and NAACP exist, but I believe people can try and educate themselves more with what they have. Qualified immunity is the legal immunity of government officials to civil suits for conducting unnecessary functions, unless there is a violation of constitutional rights. An example of qualified immunity at play is an unnecessary stop, and we know things can go from 0 to 100 really quick with these.

5) President. My bad. The power is in the hands of the people first and foremost, so it's no coincidence why I say "White people" when they elect a president that do nothing for us, even if we also vote for the same president. What the Jews have done is that they donate large amounts to both parties, and then let them compete for the vote. That way, both parties would have to care about their agenda, because they want the financial support. The Black community would need the capital to do the same thing, but that can only happen if we have better schools first, so more successful Black people can graduate in the future. It's a paradox. The spending power of the Black community is one of the least in the country, so we first have to look after our own, before we donate to either party. To be fair, you have a point in that I would like to see more talk about education, more support for HBCU's and how to decrease the drop-out rate.

[RolandCuthbert]

1. Well, again. . it isn't like a big mystery. And I have to say I just don't care about silent racists. I mean, I might curse out overt ones. But the only time I have an issue with racism is when it can affect the lives, the freedoms, and the rights of the folks of my community. I can't really speak to or for other communities, because obviously some folks are okay with it or at least some forms of it. I just don't think it is productive to try and go weed out silent racism. I know I have hired racists before. I just didn't care. I had a job to complete.

2. I know what you meant. I think on that part we agree. We just use different terms. I call "White" people what they wish to be called. . ."White". I think when it comes to the voting pattern thing I just don't agree with or care about that. I think when we stage this as a purely political conversation, we have lost it. And we can't blame the lack of progress on politics, when we refuse to define issues, solutions and strategies.

3. Hey, I am not trying to talk you out of it. I just think you are going to have a really hard time convincing "Black" people that is their responsibility. And if you want to convince some, you can start at GaG. There are hundreds here. Good luck!

:D

[RolandCuthbert]

4. You can say switch polarity. The "Black" vote is not stagnant, "Black" people can look at issues and use their brains better than most. And what I am attempting to do with my small group is to define an agenda for our community, then places where we can find common ground with other communities. Some of the issues can be addressed with some changes to public policy. Others need more work from a community level, etc. But I just think leaving everything in the hands of public policy isn't effective.

Now I want to turn to a sticking point of mine. You used the terms liberal and conservative. I know you are younger than I am. A lot younger. But don't you have any access to older "Black" folks? What is liberal about them other than their disdain for racism? My best friend's mother went to her grave disliking gay marriage and homosexuals. Such that, she was never told her grandson was gay. What is liberal about my mother, who would wake up at 5am to go to work every day? Made us go to Church every Sunday morning. She stayed married to my father until his death 12 years ago. I am just saying maybe all that hogwash about liberals and conservatives is just hogwash. And why in the world would such a person as conservative, frugal, and humble as she is vote for Trump? Maybe that will never happen in a thousand years. Could she vote for George W Bush? Of course. John McCain, you bet! Lindsay Graham, hell no? For her character and principles matter more. There are plenty of older "Black" folks like that. They agree with conservative principles. They have as much disdain for gay issues, illegal immigration, big government as any supposed conservative. But the simple fact is, those are no longer meaningful positions within the Republican party. It has become a "White" nationalist party. Back in the day, I could have some really good discussions with "Black" people about voting Republican.

[RolandCuthbert]

5. We don't have the money Jews have or the issues. We need infrastructure. And I have yet to hear anyone forward a plan on building that infrastructure that does not involve us doing it. Just voting Republican/Democrat for the exercise of voting Republican/Democrat will not fix that issue. It won't build a single "Black" school. It won't hire a single "Black" teacher. It won't teach a single "Black" child.

Lebron James built a school in his hometown of Akron. A special school in that they only take in only the worst students. We need that approach for "Black" students at every level. And again, this isn't some weird speech about "Black" nationalism. The I Promise school has "White", Latinos, and Asians in attendance. But they must fit the profile of being a failing student.

And looking at this politically you can't say either party has a plan to address this. We have to create it and make the parties pledge to it. You can't just tell them fix this. . . they won't do it. Why should they?

[WhiteBoyChill]

@RolandCuthbert Why did you feel the need to bring your dick into this?

If you’re gay then go download Grindr or something but I am not going to lift a finger for you

[ohshee]

I love your Question for many reasons


The first one is because it's real and means something
It's not a racebait question
And you want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem
I think you have the key answer to your own question
The moment you said politics that's where it all starts
Because if we could get rid of what the politicians think and the reasons why they do and say what they do is because they want that boat nothing else they can fucking care less we are all being manipulated we are all being cheated we are all being used we are all being fucked
Politicians don't give a fuk about nobody except for their re-election whether they're democrat or republican or independent they don't give a fuck all they want is to be elected they will say and do anything it's a manipulation
With the world change in the way that it is right now I hope you know we were all in for a struggle coming up
If you come on Gag a lot you will see a lot more race-bait questions
Listen to the way that they are worded because there will always be a politician aspect involved
Politicians have been suppressing black men women white men women for years
We have all been sold out majorly look where we're headed it started out with toilet paper we have been manipulated we have been used we have been sold out there are going to be beginnings of food shortages gasoline shortages there will be a blackout take away our power once that happens there will be no food because all the stores will be closed people won't have a freezer or refrigerator but before this happens you will read race-bait questions on here getting the pot stirred that way people will go out and kill each other just like what happened with covid-19 it was a ploy it is a manipulation sure there is a covid-19 but it doesn't kill people people kill people and that's what our government wants the rich get richer and the poor to get poor and to kill each other population control all I know is the bottom line is we are going to need each other if people can't get over their differences there's going to be a lot of bad things that are happening I don't like that I don't want that we need to be a part of the solution and be smarter and be honest about what's really going on everybody's getting fucked and if we do not find it a solution and come together because we are going to need each other to get our country back on track
Anyway I thank you for your question I think you answered your own question too soon as you said politicians because if we moved the politicians out of the picture people would get along with people it's the politicians and the media that stir the shit up anyway thank you for the positive question

[Anonymous]

The answer is not to be more patient, because that implies waiting for others to change things for you. And the reality is that only you can change what really needs to be changed. The the biggest problems the black community faces is their own culture. There, I said it.

I'm a white man and consider myself a left-leaning centrist politically. I can't stand the right today. For the most part, I agree with you about the far right. There is a lot of racism, distrust and resentment among them toward the black community, and that needs to change. But if we're honest, it's impossible not to see some of the things they take issue with. Blacks are responsible for more than half the murders and violent crimes committed in America every year. The vast majority of those crimes are committed by black men, who represent about 7% of the population. So 7% of the population commit half of the violent crimes. I know that's a very politically incorrect thing to call out, but it is the elephant in the room that every white person in America is acutely aware of.

Regarding police, there is no question that reform is needed, but claiming blacks are targeted and killed at the hands of police at a higher rate than whites is simply false. It's a narrative that has been pushed by Democrats and the liberal media and it has been so incredibly divisive in recent years... and it's false. Yet the official BLM stance is to abolish the police force. Can you see why whites might have a problem with these things?

The bottom line here is that there are serious problems in the black community, and for the most part only they themselves can fix them. It's their culture that needs to change, and only they can change that.

White America is tired of being blamed for things that were done by people who are no longer alive to people who are no longer alive. We are tired of white guilt for crimes of which we are not guilty. We are tired of seeing blacks kill themselves and being told we are the reason why. We are tired of being told we are racist when the only reason most of us have any issue with blacks is because they keep pointing their finger at us and demanding more when we have nothing left to give you.

We want to see you succeed, but we can't do it for you. You have a problem. Take ownership for it and stop blaming others. We can't fix it for you. Lift yourselves up the way people have done throughout human history. Take responsibility for yourselves. That's what America needs from you. We can't give you any more.

[Datboi65]

Alright, let's dissect your answer point by point, shall we?

- To be very specific, a lot of what people in the Black community ask for is change in policy, and that has to do with votes. Black people only make 14% of the population, and White people dominate both parties, so technically they follow their agenda while throwing Black folks under the bus. Why should Black people vote for them then?

- I never said there are no problems in Black culture, but let's not pretend like that's the only thing keeping the community down. You have to remember that Black culture didn't just come to exist out of nowhere. So much of that has to do with living conditions. An example is in the food we eat. Chitterlings is a dish composed of pig intestines that some families eat every Thanksgiving as a tradition to this day, and it originated from slavery. Fried chicken also has its original from slavery. So much of black culture has to do with struggle, which is what makes it very different from other cultures; struggle that they were put in by the white dominant society.

[Datboi65]

- Let's use statistics then, shall we? Only 19% of Black men graduate from college/university. There's a high drop-out rate, and HBCU's are usually underfunded. Black men with a degree are 60% likely to be married, 27% higher than average for all Black men. School districts are different depending on where you live, and this is obviously due to red-lining and segregation "separate but equal" policy and loan discrimination. An entire century of these policies has created 2 different Americas. Lower quality education => increased likelihood of dropping out => decreased likelihood of getting a white collar job => either work an honest but difficult blue collar job/take the risky route of earning money illegally. Guess what? There are plenty of Black men out there who work as truck drivers, security, janitors, cashiers and so on because they don't have a college degree, just like the chance of becoming a criminal is also higher when your options are lower.

- Nothing "divisive" about that statement. Check the stats, black men are 2.5× more likely than white men to be killed by police, and black women are 1.4× more likely to be killed by police than white women. Once again, I said I don't care about the organization of BLM, I care about the cause. I support removal of military type vehicles from the police force, and increased accountability through any means necessary. You never read in my article that I said "abolish the police" did you?

[Datboi65]

- White people like to deflect by placing the blame on black people, that's nothing new. It's not only our culture that needs to change, because our culture is a result of your treatment. Go read about black history anywhere and you will know exactly what I'm pointing towards.

-You are tired? When have you really been tired? "Things that were done by people who are no longer alive to people who are no longer alive" is a way to gaslight people into thinking that racism no longer exists, which is false. Slavery has existed in America between 1619 until it was abolished in 1865. That's 246 years! Imagine if Abraham Lincon said "but technically we didn't start slavery, so it's not really our fault that it continues to happen". Sounds ridiculous, right? Jim Crow literally ended less than 60 years ago, in 1964. Then we had the "super-predator" era and war on drugs/mass incarceration, and this is a current event that we are witnessing today. Are you gonna tell me you weren't alive when they said that crack cocaine deserves 100 times the sentence of powder cocaine? Even today, it's 18.5 times (which was lowered thanks to President Obama) but is supposed to be a 1:1 ratio, but we all know why.

You have nothing to give the black community, but you expect them to serve in the military and be drafted during times of war, or represent their country internationally in the Olympics? Even if rich individuals within the black community came together and gave everyone jobs, that would not fix the infrastructure without urban planning on the government side, and no guarantees for the future generations with education. If all Americans pulled themselves from the hole White America has dug for them, then they should no longer call themselves "Americans".

[Sparks32]

White Nationalism is the answer You go to your corner and sort out your problems and I'll go to mine and do the same. In saying that there are good black people that deserve better than what I think would happen when Black people are first forced to fend for themselves and I do feel pity for them. Want a police force or not for your black ethno state? good luck with either decision, either way their will be no other race to blame for the outcome. You will never have to wonder whether or not a decision to jail a thug was the result of racial bias. I'm sick of our communities being the safe haven for everyone else. To white people that disagree fine got to your multicultural corner along with the everyone else that wants that and lie in that bed, Everyone gets their space.

[Datboi65]

White nationalism being the answer is the funniest bullshit reply I have read all week. It's past your bedtime, go sleep.

[jshm2]

You've used a lot of words to say nothing, and it seems you have an idealist view of how politics and Western society actually works.

You do not have "answers" because you have no clue of the problems, and their politics.

Get yourself into some activism or political studies classes, kiddo. You're not ready to discuss topics like these.

[Datboi65]

I may not have the answers, but neither do you. If you are not here to "enlighten us with your political vision", I suggest you keep it moving.

[Sparks32]

@Datboi65 Why don't you enlighten us with your solutions? White nationalism will improvement white living standards wouldn't it? How would not haven't black people around hurt us? Maybe the Asians will look after you while you accuse them of racism as you beat up their children.

[FunkyMonkee]

I've had black people call me a cracker, honky and other things and have even been physically threatened by them (one, a total stranger on the street) pretended to shoot me (and other white people he passed by) with a make-believe rifle, another threw a huge rock at me and almost hit me with it) JUST because I'm white (all I did was say hello to them as they went by the bus stop where I was waiting for my last bus home an hour into the new year!!) but, I don't build my entire life around that.

[OddBeMe]

Totally agree. But unfortunately poverty feeds off itself and blacks have double the poverty rates. Yes, because of racist policies like the crime bill.


But until poor people and black people start voting more and becoming a serious political entity like the Tea Party, nothing will change for you.


FYI- 2012 had the most black vote ever. 2016, one of the least. Thanks for helping Trump get into office.

[Datboi65]

So now it's our fault he got into office? This is exactly why we shouldn't have voted for Democrats. 2020 we get Biden into office and flip Georgia, and then what does he do? Says police "needs more funding". What a joke. Good thing I'm a centrist.

[OddBeMe]

Just bein honest. Grow a political monolith and support who you want. I’m telling you what the problems are.

[Dargil]

A solution is men not impregnating multiple women, marrying the mother of his child and staying home to raise them.

Two democrats are the perps of the plight of the black community.
Lyndon Baines Johnson and Barack Hussain Obama.

[Datboi65]

- Statistically speaking, Black men are the most likely to be involved as fathers in their children's lives than Amy other ethnicity while living away.

- Lyndon B Johnson? Because he ended Jim Crow? And of course you don't like the Black president, that one isn't too hard to guess.

[Dargil]

Johnson created the war on poverty which separated black families. I won't explain the details.
Obama was instrumental in stirring up racial unrest where that had largely subsided for decades. I won't explain that either but it is a valid deduction. I dislike him not because he is non-white but because he was destructive to our culture.

[Datboi65]

You gave suggestions without explanations. Irrelevant.

[Dargil]

Not to me, and that is all that that matters to me.

[RationalMale]

Let's talk about race--when will black people take responsibility and stop violently attacking White people? The total black on White homicide rate is consistently over double the White on black homicide rate, through the Obama years and the Trump years.

That's total homicide, not adjusted for the fact there's roughly 5x as many White Americans as black.

[OddBeMe]

Totally agree. But unfortunately poverty feeds off itself and blacks have double the poverty rates. Yes, because of racist policies like the crime bill.


But until poor people and black people start voting more and becoming a serious political entity like the Tea Party, nothing will change for you.


FYI- 2012 had the most black vote ever. 2016, one of the least. Thanks for helping Trump get into office.

[notwoke]

just go to work, cut your grass, turn your stereo down, and stop committing crime and all of the "white supremacy" will magically go away. It worked great for Asians and Middle easterners, they do better than whites on every measure.

[Datboi65]

Because you allow them to, or we just gonna pretend like "Black Wallstreet" in Tulsa didn't get burned down to the ground?

[WhiteBoyChill]

@Datboi65 that was in the 1920’s. Nobody besides blm burns black neighborhoods anymore

[Datboi65]

@WhiteBoyChill Hayti community, Jackson Ward, Fourth Avenue District are other examples. Yeah, and you rednecks are the only ones breaking into the Capitol.

[notwoke]

breaking into the capital was against blacks how exactly? Stop being addicted to victimhood

[Datboi65]

You are clearly not the brightest. He was talking about "riots" and the Capitol invasion is a riot, so hypocrisy.

[Anonymous]

What would your Black paradise look like?

Seriously, what are you asking from White America? To stop being so racist? Last I saw brothas have a problem with assaulting 80 pound little boy old Asian ladies.

[Datboi65]

And a White man murdered 6 Asian women, but I guess we're not gonna talk about that.

The "Black paradise" is basically a world where nobody has to worry about low-quality education,

[Datboi65]

- *(continued) less drop-out rate, more upward mobility and not having to worry about police. Sounds about normal, right? Because that's basic stuff, and you would be out of your goddamn mind to think otherwise.

[zagor]

Would you like to compare the number of young black people killed by over-policing to that of those killed by other young black people? Maybe the emphasis isn't on the right problems.

[Datboi65]

Police is an institution, Black people are civilians. If you wear a uniform, you have taken an oath to protect and serve, not kill and traumatize. Black people don't take an oath to exist.

[WhiteBoyChill]

That’s a good question to ask the 90% of the black vote that still goes to Democrats.

[Datboi65]

Even if the don't vote Democrat, they still won't vote Republican.

[WhiteBoyChill]

And I’m ok with that. But ya’ll are still dumb for thinking the Dems give a shit about you

[Datboi65]

You're talking to a person, not a group of people right now. Where did I write anywhere that I am a Democrat? Also, "y'all" even dumber for thinking that Orange man will do anything for you.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Im referring to black people more generally.

I thought you claimed to understand your community and so I’m giving you a chance to explain

[Datboi65]

Yeah, I don't need to explain shit to you. You get the same energy you give out.

[WhiteBoyChill]

All this proves is that you don’t actually know lol