Current democracy propaganda and rhetoric in the mainstream media and democrat news lacks nuance

[WilliamPamer446]

I'm an independant when I write this. Not a far right biased.

They can't even explain a good, nuanced definition of Democracy most the time. They just make up villains who attack Democracy, and say its at stake. And point to corrupt institutions who are known for lying, whom they've complained about in the past, in the george bush era, when they lied and spread propaganda then to.

They claim that challenging an election is going against election integrity and threatening democracy, which is bullshit and hypocritical, considering in the 2016 election democrat electors revolted against trump. 2020 challengers had good reason to challenge the election. Both are allowed under the constitution, but you have to have a good reason for a different change in outcome. Im not gonna debate election fraud, thats not what this is about. And dont bring up jan 6 rioters. Im not discussing that either.

They go on and on about "democracy" but why should democracy be the one thing that defines america and why should we all just be Democrats or something and why is the word republic not in the conversation anymore and why are we just gonna ignore any criticims of democracy or the countries that are democratic that are in trouble and how democracy can be used for mob rule and how the state and corrupt officials and corrupt elites and manpiulate and use democracy for there own ends

[Lliam]

Pure democracy can only work in small groups. In large groups, such as nations, the mob is too easily manipulated and the minority oppressed.

The founders of the U. S. tried to create a representative form of government that was accountable to the will of the people. How it got corrupted over time is too long and complex of a story to get into. But, needless to say, we no longer have a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

[WilliamPamer446]

Yeah exactly, i figured out how complete democracy is dangerous a few years ago. and then once the media started to have a democracy fetish i knew something was up

[genericname85]

real talk: we don't live in a "democracy". we live in an indirect plutocratic oligarchy. the democratic vote for representants is just the socio-psychological mechanism that enforces compliancy.

[WilliamPamer446]

i think democracy is a bad one size fits all approach to label your country. look at countries that are labeled democracies. democracy is apart of what makes a country function, but its not the main thing.

[WilliamPamer446]

I think its dangerous to focus solely on democracy

[genericname85]

It's just bullshit to call something a democracy that factually isn't one.

[WilliamPamer446]

I dont agree with labeling america a democracy. i think were a democratic republic/

what would you call america? can u explain a plutonc oligarhcy r whatever your term means.

[WilliamPamer446]

i forgot constitutional democrati rpeublic*

[genericname85]

A plutocracy is government decisions are made by monetary means. Oligarchy is government decisions made by a small group of people. So combining these 2 terms means we are governed by a few very wealthy people. Not by the will of the population as democracy would suggest.

[WilliamPamer446]

oh that sound terrible i dont like yours

[WilliamPamer446]

radical left wing minority or right wing minority could be making all the decisions in your

[genericname85]

i don't like that either xD but it's the western worlds reality in pretty much every country except maybe switzerland.

[love_conquers_lust]

The US is a liberal democracy except for Affirmative Action. The oligarchy is a symptom of a missing component in the checks and balances of Corportation. We need increased taxes of codetemination to rein that back in.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_government

[genericname85]

@love_conquers_lust i would say it's a symptom of the indirect representation system. cause no candidate who is ever voted for has any sort of obligation towards the word he gave his voters.

[love_conquers_lust]

Not true. They can choose that, and they get voted out. Or impeached by other elected officials for failing to keep their word or uphold established law. To get elected at all requires a system in place to begin with. The oligarchy problem has to do with how corporations are structured. There needs to be more law to regulate them. They, especially those benefitting from it (absurdly high income earners), are fighting tooth and nail to put out harmful media to distract us from that truth by pointing at the enitity (government) that needs to change the law to fix it. So they can squeal all they want, but their vote only counts for one. That's why they spend the money they do, to makes us forget or doubt that. Effectively making their vote count for more.

That's why I tell idiots who say my or their vote counts for nothing, that yeah, go ahead and don't vote. Make my vote count for more. I don't want them to do that. I want them to vote. But I also need them to vote for the right shit. There are other manipulators who know exactly the same thing and do it so I fell I shouldn't vote. It's a stupid game veiled by dog whistling. Everyone is too pussy to tell the truth because some truths hurt their feelings and it gets in the way of finding a bilateral, altruistic solution.

[genericname85]

@love_conquers_lust vots don't count. you think you're represented even if the candidate you voted for wins the election?

take a step back and think about who exactly is making policy decisions. and what of whom informs their decisions. is it your vote?

what exactly does your vote benefit you except the delusion that you took a part in a fair system where your opinion or interested has been heard?

[genericname85]

@love_conquers_lust by the way. calling everyone "an idiot" that disagrees with you is not a thing smart people do.

[love_conquers_lust]

@genericname85 I do it all the time. I find idiots disagree. I didn't call everyone idiots, I vaguely said idiots. That plurality ranges ∞># of idiots>2. I don't set the number, they do.

You would be another idiot. What's ironic is I actually want to implement a component of what Germany has in codetermination. But you won't support that. Which leads me to believe you aren't German at all. So many Europeans get on here and bitch about the arrogance of Americans, how we know nothing of the world, and how we don't listen. Here you are, criticizing me for giving them what they want.

I also hate Affirmative Action. It's a bull shit law that was a manifestation of ICERD that the UN approached Scandanavian countries asking them how they could "cure" their racism following the Holocaust. They came up with this stupid law when they didn't consider that the only way that law works is in a homogenized society like Scandanavian countries. Hence, diversity melting pot bull shit. Which, it doesn't matter because races emerge from homogenized societies anyway, it can't be eliminated with law.

We need to pass GOOD law to change both of these. It requires VOTING. This is why I call you and idiot. I'm also mostly German, that's why I have no problem calling you one, I know it when I see it, ironically.

[genericname85]

@love_conquers_lust well you grouped everyone who decides not to vote within the "idiots" category, cause you disagree with that.

again. how does "voting" translate into "good law"?

[genericname85]

you glossed over my request to take a sep back and think about who make policy decisions and laws and what or whom these peoples decisions are informed by. it is not your vote. so how does your vote matter?

[love_conquers_lust]

Yes. There's a paradox with that. It is possible that it would be better if idiots didn't vote, lest they put an idiot in office. But that's why people should TALK about issues with one another instead of relying on mass media alone. Then, people should stop being idiots by perception. Right now, with our top 1% of income earners earning as much as they do, their monetary influence is stronger than ever, and we need as many voices (votes) as we can to combat that kind of lobbying and campaigning. There is actually law being pushed to curtail the amount of finance that can be "donated" to campaigns. The system is doing it's job.

You vote for the candidate that espouses their positions on issues that require changing. It's fucking difficult and frustrating waiting for a candidate who represents all of one's beliefs because running for office requires a lot of work and/or money, and just flat out courage. It's dangerous. On top of that, voter participation tends to be highest in the poorest segment of our society, so not the most intelligent people are putting in not the most intelligent representatives in office. Now, the middle class is getting ripped apart, different candidates are emerging, because more people are being pushed into lower income brackets. Trump is one such manifestation. Biden represents the old establishment trying to hang on to what's been going on for decades. He's also symbolic of it, it's dying. Change is still coming, I just hope it's righteous change that doesn't involve war or revolution.

[chrismoreno]

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[monorprise]

Its actually kind of scary, because if you watch them for decades you might notice they never accuse anyone of anything they are not themselfs doing.

They are basically telling you they intend to attack democracy, as if we didn't notice when they rigged their own primaries against Bernie, and made radical changes to the election law in several states to make fraud easy and undetectable.

Democracy really was at stake with theses radical election law changes that we are apparently not allowed to examine or question. In many states like Pennsylvania we weren't even allowed to vote on it in the state leglsator.
But hay if you hand picked the 'judges' and the executive who needs legislative approval for anything...

[exitseven]

There is an agenda being pushed by liberals, democrats, the extremely wealthy and communist countries. They are trying to silence or discredit any opposition. America is in their way and President Trump is not on their payroll.

[goaded]

Challenging elections while they're still ongoing is legal, making shit up and asking officials to lie for you is not. Refusing to accept the results of an election is un-American.

[WilliamPamer446]

democracy proapaganda is unaemrican

mob rule is unamerican

[WilliamPamer446]

lying about d voting machines is un American

[goaded]

Uh, yes. You seem to be violently agreeing with me.

[Exterminatore]

The ones who run this country and decide it’s policies are the oligarchs, not the people. Both politicians of either party are their paid whores. One does their bidding, the other propagandizes the masses.

[Exterminatore]

*both politicians and the media

[RealMarek]

When they talk about “our democracy,” they refer to it in the possessive, exclusive sense. In other words, the one the elites have bought and paid for.

[RingOfFire]

.

[FunkyMonkee]

Or proof to back any of it up! AS USUAL!!

[WilliamPamer446]

Exactly, just arrogant fact checkers.

[FunkyMonkee]

MOST of whom are wrong!!

[WilliamPamer446]

the same people who told me a few years ago, that facts aren't the same as proof

[FunkyMonkee]

Yeah, the rules only go one way! Whatever suits THEIR needs is what gets set into law! As soon as that same law is used against them, it's COMPLETELY wrong and should be thrown out!! Until they need it, again!!

[AngryCarl2]

Fox News lacks nuance. It also lacks news.