Americans That Other Americans Don't Know Are Americans

[MysticDevice]

Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands is an Unincorporated territory of the United States. It's not a State but it's not exactly independent either. In any case, people born there are granted US Citizenship at birth.

American Samoa. Also Unincorporated but still granted Citizenship at birth. American Samoa has the highest rate of military enlistment of any other U.S. Territory or State.

Puerto Rico. Unincorporated. The issue of their Statehood has been an ongoing debate for a long time. Some want it, some want a Sovereign country, and some are fine the way it is. American Citizens none the less.

U.S. Virgin Islands. Bought from Denmark for 25 million Doll Hairs, Residents of the Virgin Islands get Citizenship through Congressional Statute.

Unfortunately, even though these folks are U.S. Citizens, their representation is questionable and remains a heated debate among the Federal Government. They don't have anywhere near the power or participation in national affairs that the 50 States do.

[KostasKouvalis]

You forgot Guam and you're also mistaken about American Samoa. I recently saw a documentary on American Samoa and they said that American Samoans actually don't have U. S. citizenship, and you even need a passport to travel there. Technically, it IS a U. S. territory, but it operates in many ways like a separate country. American Samoa is a very weird one. And Puerto Rico, and I think the other ones too can vote in primaries but not in general elections. So they're kind of half citizens. And Puerto Ricans can live and work on the mainland no problem. And I know mainlanders can live and work on UVI, Guam and Northern Marianas no problem, and I think the reverse is true as well. American Samoa is the only one that's truly different. I don't know why American Samoa is so weird.

[MysticDevice]

I didn't forget Guam, I honestly just left it out.

And I did not know that about Samoa. If that's the case I wonder so many of them chose to join the army.

[handsomelad70]

White Americans don't really know that black Americans are Americans.

[KostasKouvalis]

@handsomelad70 When they refer to themselves as "African", can you blame us?

[monorprise]

Territories are not States, and their people are status is somewhat questionable and in the air.

Just because congress says your a U. S. Citizen doesn't mean you are entirely when your state isn't. Technically your united States Citizenship is derided from you State Citizenship so without a united State its rather difficult to be a united States citizen.

As such what congress has really given you is the right to immigrate to any state at will and thus become a united States citizen.

Separate becoming such a State Citizen to do not have citizen things like the right to vote. As such your not really a united States Citizen.

[AutumnSerenity]

As a Veteran, I’d say Puerto Ricans have earned their citizenship. They’ve been fighting for the US for decades. Plenty of US memorials with hundreds of thousands of Puerto Rican fallen soldiers’ names.

[monorprise]

@AutumnSerenity Your kind of missing the point, while I might agree the people of Puerto Rica have carry their weight in battle and deserve citizenship. They have also been long ago been given that opportunity to become so naturalized as 60% + of them have since done so.

That however is not the same thing Citizenship as Puerto Ricans, and while I might be inclined to offer them the chance to vote themselfs that as well.

I would very much prefer the island to have as partner or to at least prove themself financially self-reliant as all other states are.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, these territory residents ARE US Citizens, and they can vote for US Federal government elections if they move to a USA State, which they can do if they wish.

So a Puerto Rican cannot vote for Federal Senators or Congresspeople for Puerto Rico (since there are not any), but if said Puerto Ricans move to say, New York and establish residence in New York (as was common in days of yore), they do vote for New York Senators and Congresspeople in the Federal Government.

The Territorial residents also vote for their local legislators and Governors of their US Territories.

They do not have the right to vote in USA Federal elections as citizens of their territories, correct, but this exempts them from Federal income taxes - the classic "no taxation without representation" principle.

[AutumnSerenity]

I understand the main point. I just wanted to contribute a crucial detail to your response to ensure that readers don't mistakenly believe that they are undeserving of respect due to the differences in rights and laws between territories and states regarding constitutional citizenship.

[monorprise]

@Curmudgeon When you move to a U. S. State and naturalize as they did to vote in said elections, did they not assume the citizenship identity of said state? As such they ceased to be for example Puerto Ricans?

This is what is meant, Congress only practically exercised their Uniform rule of naturalization power in Article 1 Section 8 clause 4: "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,"
As such in the key since of the idea of citizenship which is the right to vote. Their choice to exersize that option and naturalize in a U. S. state is what really gave them Citizenship.

The other option for Citizenship for where they are is Article 4 Section 3 clause 1 New State powers which congress did not exersize for theses territories.

As for local elections, that merely means they are citizens of their territorial states, not one of theses united States.

[Curmudgeon]

@monoprise Sorry for any confusion, essentially, they became New Yorkers, yes.

[monorprise]

@AutumnSerenity In my mind Citizenship is a belonging and ownership thing. While we may hold it in respect much as we might be proud of anything else we own, particularity those things we ourselves choose.

It is our contribute and view of it that makes it special. Puerto Ricans have citizenship in their territorial state. But that is not strictly speaking U. S. citizenship in the key since of the concept of the right to vote. Because Puerto Rico is not currently one of these united State.

Congress gave them nearly 100 years ago the right to naturalize in any existing U. S. State and those territories we control. As such acquire Citizenship thereof if they soo choose. It is precisely that personal choice that made them citizens.
A fact that makes that choice all the more valuable and special. Worthy of all effort to defend unlike that of a subject of an empire. For it is YOUR choice, Your identity, YOUR Path.

If Puerto Ricans choose to make their territorial state a state of the union then it will make their Puerto Rican united States Citizenship all the more valuable and a special reflection of whom they are.

[AutumnSerenity]

Thank you for providing more details on your initial response. It is a very divided issue as Puerto Ricans were granted US citizenship in 1917 without their consent, coinciding with US entry into WWI. As citizens, they were obligated to defend the US, leading to more Puerto Ricans serving and per capita deaths in all wars than any US state. Some Puerto Ricans want independence, while others don’t. We likely won’t see a solution in our lifetime.

[Curmudgeon]

@monoprise Every decade or two Puerto Rico votes on this, and the majority (if 50% +1) or strong plurality (if under 50% but still the most popular of the three choices*) is "bastante" (enough, or "leave well enough alone"). That is, the more wealthy Puerto Ricans like being exempt from USA federal taxes, and other Puerto Ricans like having "the best of both worlds", that is, being American yet being their own identity as well.

* = the three choices being (1) Remain a "Commonwealth Territory", (2) go for statehood, or (3) go for independence.

[KostasKouvalis]

I'm not sure about the rest, but I know 100% American Samoans aren't U. S. Citizens. American Samoa is a weird one.

[KostasKouvalis]

American Samoa even requires a passport to visit if you're a mainlander

[monorprise]

@Curmudgeon Statehood would bring stability and investment to the island by securing property rights in a culture that would otherwise be predisposed to go thou periods where they might lose them.

The Tax question is kind of neutral because even thou Puerto Rico is a wealthy island by regional Standards. By U. S. Standards it is only a fraction of Mississippi our poorest state.

Because our Tax code is soo "progressive" with earned income tax credits for the poor. Most Puerto Ricans would actually be paid taxes rather than be paying taxes by the rest of theses united States.

This frankly is a major reason for not wanting them in the union until that taxing power is abolished, or Puerto Rico becomes economically comparable. If more Puerto Ricans knew of this fact I suspect desire to join the union would be far higher.

That said this is likely a temporary situation, once Puerto Rico becomes known as a state, more and more rich people will retire on the island and treat it like a vacation destination. This would completely change the island economically almost on par with becoming a 2nd Hawaii.

[JennieF]

Could they run for President?

[OldSchool_Metalhead]

I've got some family in Puerto Rico. But part of them ended up moving into the US

[MysticDevice]

Neato

[ImHere22]

Did someone finally wake up during their U. S. Government class? Lol buddy, some of what you said is incorrect, but nice try on attempting to educate some people…

Read books, study atlases, talk with your teachers and professors.

[Avicenna]

More Puerto Ricans live on the mainland than in Puerto Rico, even if you don't count people who only have one Puerto Rican parent. Everyone knows they are US citizens.

[lightbulb27]

Fascinating. and they pay taxes... right?

Why not make them states?

[KrakenAttackin]

And all of these territories are welfare states.

[Curmudgeon]

Guam and the Mariana Islands territory are strategic base areas, however.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Curmudgeon Yes, and totally dependent on those military facilities.

[handsomelad70]

Like the REPIGLIKSWINE South, whose states get about twice (if not more) government funding than they pay in income taxes, almost none of which goes to aid these states' poor.

[Curmudgeon]

@handsomelad70 Yah, that's because they have these things called military bases for national defense, which you Demunist Commiecrats loathe.

[handsomelad70]

@Curmudgeon Love your ad hominem attacks, boy.(And I'm a Democratic Socialist who voted for our New Democratic Party.) NATIONAL DEFENSE? You freakin' Yanks spend EIGHT HUNDRED FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS (about 2,500 dollars per person) on "war," not defense, which is TEN TIMES higher than any other nation and inhibits your ability to repair your ineffectual, religious nut-run schools crumbling , infrastructure, criminal "health care" abomination whose costs have SEPTUPLED inflation since 1960. So never mind the stupid names, lad, just remember that you're a useful idiot for the overlords who rule BENIGHTED States of America by dividing and conquering the 99.9999999% while their already obscene wealth burgeons.

[Drewtate]

Citizens on the Mexican boarder too