Okay but most of them do have proof and y'all are like "okay yeah you have HD video recordings of the events you say happened but how do i know you didn't make this with CGI?" literally any proof provided people go out of their way to try and debunk.
So yeah proof helps but no matter what people are always trying to defend abusers and honestly fuck that noise.
I don't think the 'movement' is about specific accusations, so I deigned to answer your poll. I think it's more about women (and some men) being able to identify with each other and to show the public how many people are victimized by sexual assault. Most of the women posting #MeToo aren't making accusations, but rather are sharing stories without names or dates, or not even posting their stories and just making it a show of solidarity.
If this is about your favorite actor or politician though, then that should be on a case-by-case basis. Although it's worth noting that eye-witness testimony actually IS considered proof and people have been given the death penalty in the United States based on eye-witness testimony alone. It's especially damning if it's corroborated by like five other people.
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History will look back at this time we are living in as a good thing, these scumbags sexual predators need to be uncovered and a message needs to be sent into the future. However, a big problem in academia culture is the promotion of vocalizing ones own oppression for ones own credibility. In other words, if you haven’t overcame being fucked over and held down by being disadvantaged, well, your story and perspective isn’t creditable in academia. This trend is not only extremely obvious to any idiot with a backpack in college, but not enough people are challenging it. And here you have upper middle class privileged white students saying they are part Native American and molested so their voice matters... it’s sick
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Isn’t it bothering anyone where an accusation is used to ruin a persons career without justice? Does this feel like America? How weird does it feel? You, and Me, can ruin someone’s life whenever we want now, what is going on here?
Lot's of #metoo campaign has not named the harassing person, and are really likely happened so no reason to doubt it. Because many people really are that huge assholes.
But if they name someone, then it should be investigated by police to avoid people lynchin.
Of course you need proof. You can't just go around accusing people of sexual assault and rape. Those are very serious allegations, so serious that allegations alone can ruin your entire life. It's up to the accuser to figure out how they are going to prove it but they have to because no person deserves to go to jail or be charged with a crime they didn't commit. How is this even a question?
Of course not, because it's counter to law. The corner stone, the very pillar of our justice system is, "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY". You can not have a rape victim without a rapist, so believing any accuser or allegation outright is ludicrous. It is a total mockery of the justice system. Why we believe women are these fairy tail creatures that tell no lies and can do no wrong is absolutely mind boggling to me. They're human beings just like men and capable of being just as malicious and vindictive.
Why would you need proof if they aren’t pressing charges? Sexual assault is similar to other assaults in the sense that proving it is tedious. In the same breath, would you ask for proof if someone claimed they got punched in the arm?
This movement seems to be more for victim solidarity rather than the revenge of the assault victims... gaslighting people who are expressing themselves is poor form.
In the case of defamation, I think there should be accountability on both sides because words carry weight but the majority of these “#MeToo” tweets and posts keep their assaulters’ identities private.
You need proof because they are destroying peoples lives. When you claim some one raped you and name them, its not for "solidarity" its to hurt that person. If its false then that persons life is destroyed because people don't really care, once the accusation is made its deemed true. So we need evidence of it because these people have to be able to keep their jobs if they have done nothing wrong, they should be allowed to prove their character and not have it slandered by some one simply because that some one happens to be a woman. That's why we demand evidence. If I accused you of raping a child do you think that their would be no repercussions? I mean for you probably because you are a woman, no one would believe it but when a woman makes such accusations against a man its immediately believed no matter if their is evidence or not. That doesn't go away that follows a person for ever.
@hellionthesagereborn none of the metoo posts I've seen have contained any names though, so your rant is kinda pointless. These are not accusations, they're people retelling their experiences and keeping other details private, simply to bring light to the issue. I would see the problem if everyone started pointing fingers left and right by including full names and addresses, however, that is not the case at all with metoo.
Actually, there are plenty of them pressing charges ie the example of Bill Cosby and one of the cases that made this so big! So, yes, this movement is actually encouraging people getting charged and "held accountable" and even past the statue of limitations, which is absurd! Why have a law when some people feel they are above it is craziness!!
@angelgirlme1982 That wasn't part of the metoo movement, that came around the same time (as did the Harvey Weinstien case) but the metoo movement was an online thing where women where tweeting their "experiences" and throwing out names left and right. Second, they came thirty years later, that's highly supscious (not saying they are lying but thirty years after the fact? Why? Its not because they would be punished because we know that rape has ALWAYS been looked down on by every one, its considered one of the most heinous crimes their is (besides crimes against children), so its not fear of not being taken seriously). I mean they accused Anase Ansari of rape, this despite the fact that by the womans own admission he never actually raped her. They accused Michael Douglas of sexual harassment thirty years ago, despite by her own admission he was having a private conversation with some other men and the woman just randomly over heard him talking. A woman accused Oliver Stone (I believe) claiming he made her strip naked for a movie role, despite the fact that his assistant and casting director stated this didn't happen. A woman claimed that Neil Degrass Tyson raped her, again, thirty years ago when they where in college with absolutely no evidence for it and having no explanation as to why she never filed a report yet felt brave enough to call him out on social media but not brave enough to file the police report. This is the over whelming majority of the claims of the me too movement.
Nothing should be accepted as true unless it is in fact, true. This obviously requires proof, not just empty accusations. It’s not fair that we allow men’s lives to be completely ruined over accusations that may not be true. Even if the men in these cases aren’t going on trial for these accusations, they’re still very serious and humiliating (not to mention life-altering).
Not many women take pictures during sexual assault. That's in part due to the nature of being assaulted, terrified for your life and safety. Now if you're asking if some of the accusations are bs... yes, i am sure they are. But i do believe most are true. And i speak with women all the time about assault due to my work. Yes, it really happens all the time. I think that's what people are struggling with. Yes- almost every woman you know has been sexually assaulted at least once in her life time. And yes, there are that many creepy ass guys out there.
Ahh... Typical.. The victims are women and the perpetrators are 'creepy ass guys'. I know this might blow your sexist mind, but men can be victims too and there are plenty of 'creepy ass women' out there.
I think it’s too serious of a subject to joke around about, so if someone states that they’ve been a victim of sexual assault/harassment (which again is very serious and shouldn’t be shared if untrue), others shouldn’t make them feel bad about it by saying “oh, that’s not true; you’re wrong; that didn’t happen.” Don’t get me wrong, I think the #metoo movement is a good way to shed light on the number of people who’ve been victims so others can see how big this situation really is (because it does effect a lot of people), but that’s something that’s traumatic and personal and I don’t think it should be shared with the whole world unless you’re completely comfortable talking about it. This #metoo movement is just a simple statement made online, so proof isn’t necessarily necessary. Had the person made an accusation of the culprit, then that’s a completely different story.
If the law operated like A, we would have a lot more falsely accused behind bars.
Plenty of people are falsely accused of rape. It's dangerous to just accept someone's word without investigating it. Does the suspect have an alibi? Is there DNA in suspicious places, etc.
There is due process, which starts with the police. They investigate to prove or disprove evidence. A victim's statement is evidence, so they investigate that to find other evidence that match with it.
Just taking something at face value is reckless. It tears lives apart.
Yes there should be proof, I know a family member who is in jail now because he was falsely accuses of rape. The bitch who accused him did it because he rejected her and was mad about it. She admitted to lying but won't tell the police because she is scared to be arrested. Anyway we still have hope to at least film her the next time.
This is their story. I as a victim of not only my abuser but the court system. I was 12 through 15 when it happened and my mom married the man. Yet when it went to court he got let go and my mom chose him over me. When I finally felt safe enough with someone to tell them, they were the only ones to believe me. So no 12y later there is no proof anymore except my word and mental scars. This movement has a lot of women seeing that it isn’t just them for the first time in YEARS OR EVER!!! So no.
I said A. In this case I am willing to accept a persons claim that they have been assaulted. If they are however taking someone to court, I would expect them to be held to the same standard of proving the other party's guilt. This is a to ensure that only guilty persons are imprisoned. I do have a problem with how rape and assault cases are currently conducted in the US. I also have a problem with how University's handle their title IX cases.
Its astounding the number of people who are willing to throw away one of the founding principles of western law. You guys call sharia law barbaric, yet decided to judge someone as guilty of a serious crime based on a hashtag and a tweet... hypocrites.
no ones doing it to take any one to court so its not about proof. the whole idea is that any woman who has endured any kind of sexual harrasment in the past just clicks the meetoo icon. its not about the stories they have but to help everyone realise just how prevailant it is and to encourage us all to do something about changing our future.
thats how i see it anyway. if a woman has been seriously abused then she is more likely to take it through courts or tribunals and thats where the evidence is needed. not just a page on farcebook
Impossible to provide proof majority of the time. I'm going to believe someone when they say they were assaulted. I'd never want to be that person who didn't believe them. And I think people have such a hard time believing victims of assault because they dont realize how many men have raped both men and women.
So if you had a male close friend or relative, who you knew and grew up with... and he was accused by some random girl you’ve never known, all you know is they were at the same bar last night, you’d believe her?
I'm not sure, but I wouldn't immediately not believe her, because statistically speaking if that were to have happened she's most likely telling the truth, and just because I grew up with someone doesn't mean I know how they are with women behind closed doors
@piffmunoz You talk as if only men engage in predatory sexual behaviour.
I am a rape victim. I was raped by a woman who I had repeatedly refused. I have also been harassed by women on many occasions.
And no, my rapist wasn't some ugly girl who couldn't get any. She was 27, blonde and beautiful. And no, I utterly did not want to have sex with her.
10% of rape victims are men, and the vast majority of rapes against men are committed by women. Believe me, I know.
I'm not comparing here. Most rape victims are women. It affects more women.
But please don't forget us, or act like our abusers don't exist. We have suffered too. And it is often so much harder. If I told my friends or the police, I'd probably be laughed out of the room, or worse, told that I'm lucky. It's horrific.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, being a rape victim myself, but the name of the movement is hard to take serious. It sounds like childish attempt to be included and get attention. I voted B, and I have a recording of him admitting what he did to me. He thought he was free to do whatever he wanted, because he was "being dominant", and had no shame or fear in admitting what he had done.
Believed, VB im not sure. Taken seriously, absolutely. I'd say yes believed because it's not an easy thing to share, but obviously any action would require further investigation, though i dunno what proof there could be. It happened to me a long time ago by someone of a higher status, even then it would have been my word against his, but i know what happened.
Acceptance of #metoo claims depends not on proof but rather it is based on the preponderance of evidence. It's reasonable to reject a single claim. OTOH when numerous people come forward and independently describe alleged misdeeds of the nearly identical nature it's not proof but a reasonable person would have to conclude that with near certainty the claims are true.
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Okay but most of them do have proof and y'all are like "okay yeah you have HD video recordings of the events you say happened but how do i know you didn't make this with CGI?" literally any proof provided people go out of their way to try and debunk.
So yeah proof helps but no matter what people are always trying to defend abusers and honestly fuck that noise.
Fuck thoose people that lie. No ome ever talks about the bitches that lie. Remember what happened to nelly?
Usher?
Or nah
I don't think the 'movement' is about specific accusations, so I deigned to answer your poll. I think it's more about women (and some men) being able to identify with each other and to show the public how many people are victimized by sexual assault. Most of the women posting #MeToo aren't making accusations, but rather are sharing stories without names or dates, or not even posting their stories and just making it a show of solidarity.
If this is about your favorite actor or politician though, then that should be on a case-by-case basis. Although it's worth noting that eye-witness testimony actually IS considered proof and people have been given the death penalty in the United States based on eye-witness testimony alone. It's especially damning if it's corroborated by like five other people.
History will look back at this time we are living in as a good thing, these scumbags sexual predators need to be uncovered and a message needs to be sent into the future.
However, a big problem in academia culture is the promotion of vocalizing ones own oppression for ones own credibility. In other words, if you haven’t overcame being fucked over and held down by being disadvantaged, well, your story and perspective isn’t creditable in academia. This trend is not only extremely obvious to any idiot with a backpack in college, but not enough people are challenging it. And here you have upper middle class privileged white students saying they are part Native American and molested so their voice matters... it’s sick
Isn’t it bothering anyone where an accusation is used to ruin a persons career without justice? Does this feel like America? How weird does it feel? You, and Me, can ruin someone’s life whenever we want now, what is going on here?
Lot's of #metoo campaign has not named the harassing person, and are really likely happened so no reason to doubt it. Because many people really are that huge assholes.
But if they name someone, then it should be investigated by police to avoid people lynchin.
Of course you need proof. You can't just go around accusing people of sexual assault and rape. Those are very serious allegations, so serious that allegations alone can ruin your entire life. It's up to the accuser to figure out how they are going to prove it but they have to because no person deserves to go to jail or be charged with a crime they didn't commit. How is this even a question?
Of course not, because it's counter to law. The corner stone, the very pillar of our justice system is, "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY". You can not have a rape victim without a rapist, so believing any accuser or allegation outright is ludicrous. It is a total mockery of the justice system. Why we believe women are these fairy tail creatures that tell no lies and can do no wrong is absolutely mind boggling to me. They're human beings just like men and capable of being just as malicious and vindictive.
Why would you need proof if they aren’t pressing charges? Sexual assault is similar to other assaults in the sense that proving it is tedious. In the same breath, would you ask for proof if someone claimed they got punched in the arm?
This movement seems to be more for victim solidarity rather than the revenge of the assault victims... gaslighting people who are expressing themselves is poor form.
In the case of defamation, I think there should be accountability on both sides because words carry weight but the majority of these “#MeToo” tweets and posts keep their assaulters’ identities private.
If revenge is all you understand, you would be wrong. Been there don't need to. Will only cause you more pain or your life!
You need proof because they are destroying peoples lives. When you claim some one raped you and name them, its not for "solidarity" its to hurt that person. If its false then that persons life is destroyed because people don't really care, once the accusation is made its deemed true. So we need evidence of it because these people have to be able to keep their jobs if they have done nothing wrong, they should be allowed to prove their character and not have it slandered by some one simply because that some one happens to be a woman. That's why we demand evidence. If I accused you of raping a child do you think that their would be no repercussions? I mean for you probably because you are a woman, no one would believe it but when a woman makes such accusations against a man its immediately believed no matter if their is evidence or not. That doesn't go away that follows a person for ever.
@hellionthesagereborn none of the metoo posts I've seen have contained any names though, so your rant is kinda pointless. These are not accusations, they're people retelling their experiences and keeping other details private, simply to bring light to the issue. I would see the problem if everyone started pointing fingers left and right by including full names and addresses, however, that is not the case at all with metoo.
Actually, there are plenty of them pressing charges ie the example of Bill Cosby and one of the cases that made this so big! So, yes, this movement is actually encouraging people getting charged and "held accountable" and even past the statue of limitations, which is absurd! Why have a law when some people feel they are above it is craziness!!
@angelgirlme1982 That wasn't part of the metoo movement, that came around the same time (as did the Harvey Weinstien case) but the metoo movement was an online thing where women where tweeting their "experiences" and throwing out names left and right. Second, they came thirty years later, that's highly supscious (not saying they are lying but thirty years after the fact? Why? Its not because they would be punished because we know that rape has ALWAYS been looked down on by every one, its considered one of the most heinous crimes their is (besides crimes against children), so its not fear of not being taken seriously). I mean they accused Anase Ansari of rape, this despite the fact that by the womans own admission he never actually raped her. They accused Michael Douglas of sexual harassment thirty years ago, despite by her own admission he was having a private conversation with some other men and the woman just randomly over heard him talking. A woman accused Oliver Stone (I believe) claiming he made her strip naked for a movie role, despite the fact that his assistant and casting director stated this didn't happen. A woman claimed that Neil Degrass Tyson raped her, again, thirty years ago when they where in college with absolutely no evidence for it and having no explanation as to why she never filed a report yet felt brave enough to call him out on social media but not brave enough to file the police report. This is the over whelming majority of the claims of the me too movement.
Nothing should be accepted as true unless it is in fact, true. This obviously requires proof, not just empty accusations. It’s not fair that we allow men’s lives to be completely ruined over accusations that may not be true. Even if the men in these cases aren’t going on trial for these accusations, they’re still very serious and humiliating (not to mention life-altering).
Not many women take pictures during sexual assault. That's in part due to the nature of being assaulted, terrified for your life and safety. Now if you're asking if some of the accusations are bs... yes, i am sure they are. But i do believe most are true. And i speak with women all the time about assault due to my work. Yes, it really happens all the time. I think that's what people are struggling with. Yes- almost every woman you know has been sexually assaulted at least once in her life time. And yes, there are that many creepy ass guys out there.
Ahh... Typical.. The victims are women and the perpetrators are 'creepy ass guys'. I know this might blow your sexist mind, but men can be victims too and there are plenty of 'creepy ass women' out there.
I think it’s too serious of a subject to joke around about, so if someone states that they’ve been a victim of sexual assault/harassment (which again is very serious and shouldn’t be shared if untrue), others shouldn’t make them feel bad about it by saying “oh, that’s not true; you’re wrong; that didn’t happen.” Don’t get me wrong, I think the #metoo movement is a good way to shed light on the number of people who’ve been victims so others can see how big this situation really is (because it does effect a lot of people), but that’s something that’s traumatic and personal and I don’t think it should be shared with the whole world unless you’re completely comfortable talking about it. This #metoo movement is just a simple statement made online, so proof isn’t necessarily necessary. Had the person made an accusation of the culprit, then that’s a completely different story.
If the law operated like A, we would have a lot more falsely accused behind bars.
Plenty of people are falsely accused of rape. It's dangerous to just accept someone's word without investigating it. Does the suspect have an alibi? Is there DNA in suspicious places, etc.
There is due process, which starts with the police. They investigate to prove or disprove evidence. A victim's statement is evidence, so they investigate that to find other evidence that match with it.
Just taking something at face value is reckless. It tears lives apart.
Yes there should be proof, I know a family member who is in jail now because he was falsely accuses of rape. The bitch who accused him did it because he rejected her and was mad about it. She admitted to lying but won't tell the police because she is scared to be arrested. Anyway we still have hope to at least film her the next time.
This is their story. I as a victim of not only my abuser but the court system. I was 12 through 15 when it happened and my mom married the man. Yet when it went to court he got let go and my mom chose him over me. When I finally felt safe enough with someone to tell them, they were the only ones to believe me. So no 12y later there is no proof anymore except my word and mental scars. This movement has a lot of women seeing that it isn’t just them for the first time in YEARS OR EVER!!! So no.
I said A. In this case I am willing to accept a persons claim that they have been assaulted. If they are however taking someone to court, I would expect them to be held to the same standard of proving the other party's guilt. This is a to ensure that only guilty persons are imprisoned.
I do have a problem with how rape and assault cases are currently conducted in the US. I also have a problem with how University's handle their title IX cases.
Its astounding the number of people who are willing to throw away one of the founding principles of western law. You guys call sharia law barbaric, yet decided to judge someone as guilty of a serious crime based on a hashtag and a tweet... hypocrites.
no ones doing it to take any one to court so its not about proof. the whole idea is that any woman who has endured any kind of sexual harrasment in the past just clicks the meetoo icon. its not about the stories they have but to help everyone realise just how prevailant it is and to encourage us all to do something about changing our future.
thats how i see it anyway. if a woman has been seriously abused then she is more likely to take it through courts or tribunals and thats where the evidence is needed. not just a page on farcebook
Impossible to provide proof majority of the time. I'm going to believe someone when they say they were assaulted. I'd never want to be that person who didn't believe them. And I think people have such a hard time believing victims of assault because they dont realize how many men have raped both men and women.
So if you had a male close friend or relative, who you knew and grew up with... and he was accused by some random girl you’ve never known, all you know is they were at the same bar last night, you’d believe her?
I'm not sure, but I wouldn't immediately not believe her, because statistically speaking if that were to have happened she's most likely telling the truth, and just because I grew up with someone doesn't mean I know how they are with women behind closed doors
@piffmunoz You talk as if only men engage in predatory sexual behaviour.
I am a rape victim. I was raped by a woman who I had repeatedly refused. I have also been harassed by women on many occasions.
And no, my rapist wasn't some ugly girl who couldn't get any. She was 27, blonde and beautiful. And no, I utterly did not want to have sex with her.
10% of rape victims are men, and the vast majority of rapes against men are committed by women. Believe me, I know.
I'm not comparing here. Most rape victims are women. It affects more women.
But please don't forget us, or act like our abusers don't exist. We have suffered too. And it is often so much harder. If I told my friends or the police, I'd probably be laughed out of the room, or worse, told that I'm lucky. It's horrific.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, being a rape victim myself, but the name of the movement is hard to take serious. It sounds like childish attempt to be included and get attention. I voted B, and I have a recording of him admitting what he did to me. He thought he was free to do whatever he wanted, because he was "being dominant", and had no shame or fear in admitting what he had done.
What a dick. Sorry that happened to you.
Believed, VB im not sure. Taken seriously, absolutely. I'd say yes believed because it's not an easy thing to share, but obviously any action would require further investigation, though i dunno what proof there could be. It happened to me a long time ago by someone of a higher status, even then it would have been my word against his, but i know what happened.
Acceptance of #metoo claims depends not on proof but rather it is based on the preponderance of evidence. It's reasonable to reject a single claim. OTOH when numerous people come forward and independently describe alleged misdeeds of the nearly identical nature it's not proof but a reasonable person would have to conclude that with near certainty the claims are true.