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For those who voted for B, how are you going to prove it?
Should the accusations of the #MeToo movement be accepted as true without proof?
I think of course, there should be proof or anyone can call wolf and get money or fame! As a fellow abuse victim since my toddler days, I honestly feel the whole movement is becoming a joke! Just because someone says "I was Abused" doesn't make it so. It is the bad apples though that make normal people who are raped or assaulted be looked at as a joke too and anyone with real claims is not believed. So, I feel no one should be above the law. Some of these women able to re open a case after the statue of limitations because they claim they were "too scared" yet they are just fine going public on live tv and showcasing their story to the world now? Okay, how is that being "too scared"? Too scared to walk into an emergency room even with a fellow friend or family member and privately share they were raped? That would have been easier than broadcasting to the world. When I was three or four years old, I was brave enough to know to tell a nurse in the ER that I was beaton by a man named Randy. The nurse even made notes on my charts and still did nothing. I also was molested by another man at that young age and was not allowed to testify. I guess a little toddler has more guts than any of those women who boast they were just too scared and intimidated yet these are women who flaunt their bodies around in playboy mansions? Okay, lady, you have so much insecurities there just keep the money and save the sob stories. You can't have your cake and eat it too, ladies. It's a slap to the face for all the "normal women" like me and others who were actually too young to have a voice and by the time I was legally able to on my own, it was past the statue of limitations. I was removed from my birth mother and the adoption was closed but they didn't allow me to press charges or I would have! I would have stood up in the court room and pointed directly at my abuser and that's true guts! Because the law said I was too young, my molester also raped 2 other innocent children. Now, that's fucked up. He had already molested before me even and even being with my brother and I was already breaking the law and I am guessing that's why when the police came and took me away from him alone in his apartment that day, they didn't need evidence but as a child all I saw was that I was bad because I was the one taken away from my mom and everything I knew. It was one of the scariest moments of my life! That's true fear! Yet, for some of us, The Justice System truly fails us. We are the lost and unheard, not famous women who cry over being ogled or hearing a cat call. I wish that was all I ever had all my life. I could take the nasty men ogling me in work, different bosses touching me in the back room, being raped countless times in my adult life and almost sold into a sex ring over seas. Why? Because let's just say, my mom taught me well and some things you can never truly unlearn, especially when it's all you know!
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On the surface, the answer seems obvious. Most people would say of course not, because to say otherwise would undermine our justice system and it's ideal that the accused are "innocent until proven guilty". To be labeled guilty without supporting evidence and a trial by jury would be unfair and unjust.
The problem, isn't so cut and dry though, in this particular issue. This movement is the result of a mass build up of an underlying and insidious undercurrent of misogynistic attitudes of powerful men (& some women) who have used their status and positions to behave in sexuality aggressive and inappropriate ways, knowing that their position would intimidate their victims into silence, allowing them to do what they want and not be called out on it, or face any consequences for it.
Because our culture has, up until recently, favored a power structure of male dominance and female subordination, the attitudes and behaviors, of these men and of men who knew, and did nothing to stop it, went unchallenged, at least not with the magnitude or severity it needed, in order to be effectively called into question and addressed.
Many of the women & some men, currently coming forward, have actually been calling out their abusers for many years, only to be dismissed and ignored, by a culture that had nearly normalized this type of behavior.
What we are witnessing now is a massive group of women, who have finally found each other, have compared notes, found that their experiences are disturbingly similar, and have gathered enough solidarity & support from one another, to strengthen their voices to the point they can no longer be ignored.
The bigger issue here, is that a shift in cultural attitude needs to change, because it is a problem that is too large to deny or dismiss away.
Our focus needs to be on what we can do to change the system that has created an attitude of sexual entitlement of men towards women that has allowed this behavior to continue without consequences.
Instead, the majority of the focus will be on the few individuals, out of the majority, who might get wrongly accused, which will be a reactionary backlash from men who fear that their own deplorable behavior and attitudes towards women will be called into question., and they will stop at nothing to keep that from happening, even if it's at the expense of future victims who will inevitably be abused, if nothing changes.
- 1.3K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
They are not accusations. Accusations, like you said, would require some sort of proof, a name, a date and a place, possible witnesses etc.
MeToo isn't about pointing fingers, pressing charges and dragging people to court. MeToo is about sharing your experience as someone who has been sexually assaulted. So far I haven't seen a single MeToo that contained very specific details, such as names, dates and times. That's because those aren't relevant - these experiences are not shared to bring justice to individuals and to have the "accused" thrown in jail. These experiences are shared to bring light to the issue of sexual harassment and assault, and it also works as support to others who have been through similar things. Think of it as a network of people who support each other and find comfort in sharing what they've been through. For a lot of people, it can be therapeutic. Talking about it makes them feel like they're gaining back som power that was taken from them. By staying silent, many feel like it's something they need to battle on their own, which can be very scary and lonely.
So it seems like you've misunderstood what it's about. In a court of law, yes there needs to be some sort of evidence, which is why so many rapes go underreported and very few rapists are sentenced/punished. But this is not a court of law, and people are free to share their own stories and experiences. Whether you want to believe them or not is entirely up to you. These people are not sharing these stories to accuse someone or forcefully convince people that it actually happened, they're just bringing light to the issue by speaking for themselves.
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The MeToo movement doesn't only talk about rape and stuff. Even the smallest thing that, because of some limitations or beliefs, women think it's "not as bad" and "it could be worse".
Imagine a stranger groping you while you're walking home at night. You have no idea who it was, you can't provide proof. You, too, were assaulted. Yet no one should believe you because you couldn't prove it.
Sure, if you're saying you got raped, perhaps you can identify the person or even show physical abuse. But what if you were intoxicated and can't remember? Then did it really happen? Can you still prove it? No. So we ignore the victims that can't prove they are victims?
Let me tell you a real story that should put things into perspective. A group of three girls, who were all friends, that all dated one boy at one time or another decided to ruin this boy's life because he broke up with them which gave them an impression that he was a player and deserved it.
All three girls got together and made up stories that they were all raped by this boy in the surrounding forest of their neighbourhood.
Because there were three of them with corroborating "evidence" (not real evidence just word of mouth which is what #metoo is about) the girls were totally believed; the boy was therefore arrested immediately. He was placed in the youth jail system on account of multiple rape.
Time went on but a lawyer and the boy worked together on the case because he was innocent but nobody believed it.
Messages on faceboook, however, revealed that the girls plotted this the entire time. Many messages showed that they were laughing and planning to ruin this kid's life. He was released due to the forged stories.
NOTHING happened to the girls. Just a slap on the wrist basically.
This can happen to more boys and men through a witch hunt that can come out of the #MeToo movement. Easily.
- 10.6K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
to accept twitter claim as proof without would be to totally usurp our justice system.
how do you prove it? they should have to provide evidence (tangible evidence, witnesses, etc). if the event is within the statute of limitations then they should press charges.
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- 743 opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
To accept something with the absence of proof seems like faith. Competent judges do not rule over a case by being 'faithful'. Cases are not won with 'faith'; they are won with evidence that are logical and sensible, whether fabricated or legitimate.
Two parties having proofs doesn't mean that one is at a pedestal higher than the other party. Proofs that aren't coherent and sensible are less likely to be considered as 'solid evidences', whether legitimate or fabricated. - 3.5K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
Proof is certainly required. There will be a lot of people jumping onto this bandwagon...
- 686 opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
They're not pressing any charges, and 90% of the time they're not directly calling who it is out (full name etc), personally I don't see why not, if it helps them to stop bottling it up and get support then I'm all for it.
Personally I have quite little evidence for my rape, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not going to press charges, all I want is to not keep it in me like some deep dark shameful secret, or letting it eat me up inside. Knowing that you're not alone and being able to talk to people who have been through the same issue is very healing, I'm not just gonna ask "you got proof? Otherwise I don't wanna talk about this with you", it's disrespectful, because a lot of the time the only hope they have of recovery and closure is talking about it and letting it out. I would question more about proof however if they were going to press charges.
Another thing is that I've seen a whole lot of men come out with the MeToo movement too which is a great thing to get people talking about these issues, not good to let these men down when it's still an incredibly sensitive issue.
So as long as there's no charges or names called out I think it's fine. It's not like you ask someone to give you proof when they tell you a funny story that happened that day, or if they bought something new recently, you gonna ask them for proof that they bought it or are you just gonna assume they stole it because they show no proof? - 1K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
It's kind of a grey area, because it is almost impossible to find evidence of it for several reasons. Victims tend to shower immediately, again and again so it washes off all semen/female discharges if the rapist was a women. There can be minor injuries that can be spotted when they are fresh and not after years when they are cured. Sometimes rapists even do it in a way that no evidence is left. The only evidence is the victim's trauma behind the closed doors that none of us can see.
Yet depending on the situation some investigation can be done, maybe like getting witnesses or social media history or phone tracking or anything else involving digital gadgets. Trials or lie detectors don't work. Innocent people might as well admit being guilty in fear of being severely beaten if they keep saying that they didn't do it in the first place.
I think laws being made in a way that, if the accuser is caught lying then he/she will be punished as severely as the original punishment for the crime, then it could stop some people from making false accusations thus making real accusations more reliable. -
No, I think that's such nonsense when people do that. People literally say believe all victims til proven otherwise? Rubbish. How about I just start accusing those same people of robbing my house, or running my grandma over?
Like you can show support to somebody who claims they're a victim without actually treating the accused as if they're definitely guilty. We have courts for a reason. And yes, fair enough most cases there isn't much or any evidence, so most get away with their crime, but you still can't can just treat somebody as if they're guilty when you don't actually know. Of course it could be dangerous to just freely spend time alone with a predator, so if someone is accused, you should keep your mind open and not just automatically say you won't believe it unless they're found guilty in court, but at the same time, you can't do all these things people do to accused people.
Like people are messed up in this world. There are fucked up people who rape, and there are fucked up people who'd send somebody to jail over a false allegation. You just have to assess the situation yourself and not just jump on the bandwagon when somebody is accused. -
Yes and no. The accusations that are being made publicly and legally have varied. The accusations about Harvey Weinstein? His own company had enough proof that they forced him out. If they didn't, he would have such a lawsuit for them, and he'd win. And he basically admitted to having a problem and seeking help for it.
Not everyone is going to get legal justice, partially because it's hard to prove, and partially because the legal system often does not take these things seriously.
Is every accusation the truth? No, some are false. No one is quite sure how often accusations of harassment are false. If it's similar to rape accusations, it's probably about 2-8%.
Most of the people who are #MeToo on social media should be believed - a low percentage are naming anyone in particular, they are just trying to show how common sexual misconduct is, between friends, co-workers, people in high powered situations, you name it. For some of us, inappropriate sexual comments start even when we are children. (The first time I remember it happening to me I was 5, and it was two adult women talking shit.) These general kinds of "accusations" should be believed in a general sense. We need to wake up and see just how much people are sexually harassed, abused, etc. and figure out how to address that as a society.
This isn't just triggered women crying wolf for attention (especially since men are speaking up too). It's serious, and it should be taken seriously.
But of course, yes, some people have made false allegations, but it's such a low percentage, that no one should go around discounting all accusations as bullshit - the way some people do. These are real things that real people have faced way too much. The problem is real.
So, assume a large percentage of the accusations are true - what should we do to make these problems less common? That's really the question the movement is asking. -
My first instinct was to yell, "of course, they need proof," but upon thinking about it, my answer is a resolute yes AND no. In the court of law, proof of some kind has to be provided. That is the system in which we live under and for a good majority of cases, this allows us not to simply convict someone for no potential wrong doing.
However, when you get into cases of rape, molestation, and sexual harassment, the perpetrators often work in secret, are in positions of power over their victims (parent/boss/priest/teacher), use black mail, or other tactics to keep their victims silent coupled with that same society we live in, which often shames the victims and blames them for "making it too easy," or "going to that party," or "a parent should have known." This is often why these stories come to light years later, long after things like biological evidence are gone. Even beyond that, how do you prove, without the use of cameras or videos, that someone touched you behind closed doors if only the two of you were in the room? Does that mean it didn't happen? There are children who were molested for years that never told a soul out of fear or shame or because someone didn't believe them which allowed the abuse to go on.
Beyond the doors of a courtroom, I really think it's up to those listening to these stories who will have to try to sort fact from fiction. You can no more say person A did do it without proof then you can say person A didn't do it without proof if no one else was present to abuse. -
Not at all. There needs to be proof. That is my main problem with this #MeToo shit is that there is no proof to most of these stories but people, mostly men, are getting fired from their jobs and having their careers ruined over hear say. With out proof I don't believe most of these victims. I see it as them having a lot to gain from telling these stories and if they were true why did they wait so long to tell them. I honestly believe in a lot of cases these women knew what they were doing and knew better but went along with it because they knew it would help their careers. The only reason they speaking our now is because they got what they want and now can gain more by acting the victim. Sorry not buying it. I actually side more with the accused. The big ones for me is the firing of Danny Masterson and Kevin Spacey by Netflix. It is bullshit since there is no proof and not even charges placed on them. It's just Netflix being little bitches and trying to keep face during bad PR. When they should be backing their actors. I really hopeople in Masterson's case he is proven innocent by the police so he can sue Netflix and those women for all they are worth. It needs to happen to stop this stupid witch hunt.
- 2.1K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
People make up false claims all the time. At my uni a girl claimed a boy raped her. He was shunned and banned from uni. Turns out she lied about it and made it up. If one woman can do this, anyone can. Women like that has caused there to be a high need of proof. If this wasn't abused it won't be needed but people are dishonest! So yes proof is needed. Whether by means of perhaps witnesses, audio recording, video recording and of course, rape kits where it can be confirmed that sexual activity took place.
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They shouldn't be accepted as true but they should certainly be taken seriously. While you're in the pits of the 'unknown' support the one giving the accusations but also don't make assumptions about the one being accused.
People make false claims all the time I've seen it growing up in real life and I've seen it all over the news. Some people are desperate to ruin someone's career or reputation while in the meantime getting themselves more attention.
I don't doubt that the majority of them are true, but there's always going to be a handful of lies. Just get proof like you would with any other case and if they can't provide it then you carry on as things are but just being weary of the claims against that person. - 836 opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
What proof could there be? Even if they went to the hospital or to report it to the police when they’ve been assaulted, there are MILLIONS of untested rape kits in the US. There’s no real political will to even attempt to prosecute sexual assault, harassment and rape cases. So how can there be proof when the kind of evidence y’all trust isn’t even analyzed?
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It’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but when a woman claims to be raped, it becomes guilty until proven innocent. It is ruining innocent men’s lives, either because of false accusations or the wrong man being sentenced to a life in prison.
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If it's directed at someone then the Justice system should do it's job. That means innocent until proven guilty.
The myth that conviction rates are stupidly low ( www.theguardian.com/.../myths-about-rape-conviction-rates ) has made cases like this - www.theguardian.com/.../met-to-review-all-ongoing-cases-after-second-trial-collapses - far too common in the news.
Of course evidence is needed. It goes both ways of course. Last minute evidence has cleared people on 4 difference cases in the last few months alone (hence the review of all of them). -
You have to show me proof, I have seen how females will jump on the me too train for their 15 minutes of fame.
One time me and few guys at work were teasing another guy, about him putting the moves on and hugging up a girl at a park. After the guy had left, a female on the job came over talking about how he had put the moves on her.
We all knew this to be bull shit, because the guy was into his wife and did not see anyone but her and was the reason we were teasing him about the other woman.
The other woman we were teasing him about hugging up, was his daughter he had out playing in the park. - 3.7K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
Of course not. To accept it unconditionally would be completely insane and quite honest sexist. Why would we presume that all women are just inherently perfect so perfect that not one, NOT ONE, would lie to further their career? Lie to hurt some one who rejected them? Lie to cover up their complicitness? Lie to get back at a (or perceived) snub? Lie for attention? Lie to blame their career failures on some one else i. e. as vindication? No, women are not perfect beings they lie and based upon statistics they are more likely to lie about something like this simply because their is no negative consequence for them to do so and they are automatically believed by the masses. What evidence should be presented? Witnesses, rape kits, hospitalization logs, etc. If they where raped their would be evidence. Of course that requires that you not wait for 30 plus years before speaking out.
- 529 opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
I voted no but I think it you got mixed votes from women due to the framing of your question.
It is popular and logical to not default to assume these women lying. They have nothing to gain.
But the accused are innocent until proven guilty which isn't an option in some cases due to statute of limitation. It's why Roy Moore was like yeah I dated 15 year olds when Mom said it was okay and so did the Bible.
I voted no because everyone has a right to trial. But there will be no trial when statute of limitations runs out so alleged rapists like Moore get off free. -
If this is a court case, then of course proof must be given to substantiate the claim. Otherwise, the accused cannot be found guilty of anything. That being said, the offense must be a punishable offense. That means rape, or other forms of assault.
Many forms of sexual harassment are not criminal offenses. Companies may have policies against it, but people do not go to jail for cracking a sexist, sexually vulgar joke at work. Cat calling, whistling, calling women "honey" at work, all fall into the same bucket.
So since these are not "crimes", they are not judged by the court of law, but by the court of public opinion. It is up to the individual to determine whether they think proof is needed to be judged by the people's opinion. -
I pray that some unlucky bastard who has been falsely accused of rape or any form of sexual misconduct reads this and backs me up because NO ONE seems to understand that the ramifications of false allegations go way beyond having to defend yourself on court and the threat of prison time. Men accused of rape are often beaten by family and/or friends of the accuser (s). Married men end up divorced before they're exonerated. They're fired from their jobs and forever only eligible for the types of jobs typically reserved for ex cons. The suspicion or accusation alone is enough to destroy a man's life. Acquittal and exoneration are meaningless in the public eye.
Anyone shown to falsely accuse someone of rape should be exempt from protections against cruel and unusual punishment.
I remember reading that in the first 10 years of its official use, DNA evidence exonerated more felons than it convicted. Not one accuser was ever brought to justice; NOT ONE. -
It's very complicated.. ideally there should be proof but more often than not there's no proof or witnesses when something like this happens.. women do stay silent because they think they'll be judged and won't be believed.. having said that.. there's always gonna be some whores who will ruin everything for the actual victims and use this for personal gain.. like getting fame.. or money or revenge and innocent men and women will pay the price
- 4.1K opinions shared on Women's Day topic.
When twelve women or twenty are all talking about the same guy, then I figure he is a problem. When it's just one women out of the dozens of hundreds he has worked with, then I figure she has a problem.
And if the question is "why are they all coming forward now?" I think that has pretty easy answer. Each one thought "Did that really just happen? Am I the only one? If I complain about Mr. Big, will anyone listen?" But when one woman finally tells her story, suddenly other women who had the same experience think "Wow, he did the same thing to me. I'm not the only one."
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