Are you okay with burger flippers getting paid $15 an hour?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

[Dinklex3]

Yeah. Why wouldn't I be?
Working in the kitchen is so taxing on your body.
I'm in the military now and even at basic my body has never hurt like it did when I was working the kitchen at my college.

[Rissyanne]

It’s ridiculous. It’s going to make businesses go out of business.

[HOAAH]

yes for small businessesbut not for really big ones

[StickStickity13]

@HOAAH if you can't pay your employees a decent wage, you probably shouldn't be in business

[Rissyanne]

@StickStickity13 when the businesses close there goes the jobs. Your logic is ridiculous

[Rissyanne]

@HOAAH big businesses will just cut hours. Or hire higher skilled workers and this will leave the low skill workers out of a job.

[StickStickity13]

There will be a place to replace them. No worries there.

[Rissyanne]

@StickStickity13 you are wrong

[StickStickity13]

Yeah, because that happens in Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, and Sweden.

[OlderAndWiser]

Hell no! It's an entry level job. No one ever thought that you were supposed to support a family of four by flipping burgers.

[AgentDearestZ]

Considering there are less and fewer jobs, you're gonna have to put aside your pride and use empathy & logic.

[OlderAndWiser]

@AgentDearestZ There are "less and fewer" jobs, the population continues to grow, and unemployment is at record lows. You are telling ME to be logical? You aren't dealing in facts; you are dealing in fiction.

[knightly]

Thank you! I think it is just insane that someone at McDonald's is making as much as me when I'm starting as one of the marketing managers of a company.

[knightly]

Also, it's Texas where $15 is quite a substantial amount.

[JesseTheMan]

Must be a shit place if marketing managers are paid 15 dollars a hour, lmao

[knightly]

It's not that it's shit, it's that the cost of living is low with the minimum wage being 8.50. So it's definitely not a reason to complain but people still do because they want to do the same half assed work for more pay.

[vald9inches]

@OlderAndWiser Influencer its funny you say that because if you are really 63 then when you were growing up you had an entry level job that paid that much lmfao

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches No, when I was a kid, I had an entry level job that paid $1.25 per hour.

[vald9inches]

your forgetting inflation old man

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches When I was a child, gas was 19 cents per gallon. Why do you think that I have forgotten about inflation?

[JesseTheMan]

It's just people butthurt because their shit jobs don't pay well so they don't want people with even shittier jobs to make the same money. All so they can feel better about their depressing and shitty lives by having people below them. Instead of being mad at those who actually deserve it.

[StickStickity13]

You can't run an entire industry on highschool kids.

[OlderAndWiser]

@StickStickity13 No one made that claim.

[goaded]

19c/gallon, $1.25 per hour, you could buy 6.6 gallons/hour worked.
Today 6.6 gallons/hour at 280c/gallon = $18.48/hour.

Ta dahhh!

[OlderAndWiser]

@goaded I never said that the price of gas was 19 cents per gallon when I had my entry level job. Gas was 19¢/gallon when I was 5 years old. My first job happened when I was 16 years old.

More importantly, the reasonableness of minimum wage is not as simple as determining how many gallons of gas can be bought with one hour's wage.

[OlderAndWiser]

Thanks for MHO!

[front2back]

Yes as long as my $16/he salary is instantly raised to $21/hr

[Cammy137]

I'm all for it. I don't live in the US but shitty jobs like working in McDonalds is not fun and one of the biggest problems people face when they find themselves stuck in such a job is that its impossible to save enough money up to escape. They end up working month to month, struggling to pay bills and survive and so there is never an opportunity for them to quit the job in the hopes of finding something better paid and more fulfilling.
Some people state that these jobs are meant mostly for young adults and teenagers but not everyone has the luxury of being able to get a job that is any better. I think we have to understand that some people end up trapped in these jobs.

[Rissyanne]

What will happen is businesss will hire higher skilled workers leaving low skilled without a job

[Cammy137]

That's what businesses do anyway!

[Hidden_P]

Absolutely fine with it.

Everyone should have a liveable wage and people in low end jobs work much worse conditions than educated ones.

So a doctor gets a lovely desk and a sit down all day as he deals with patients and earns thousands a week. He gets an air con environment, a decent lunch, and not panic about bills when he gets home.

A “burger flipper” or a barista or similar has spend their whole day on their feet cleaning and serving in hot conditions with no air con, dealing with a barriage of complaints from the likes of doctors. They’ve probably had a break skipped because of lack of staff (so 6 hours without sitting down) and they get to go home and count the pennies for the rent and work out how to eat for free.

A low end job has harsher conditions. I didn’t get to go to uni because I looked after my amputee Dad (how selfish of me) and I was welcomed with a shite job. I was the one of 2 people who didn’t pass out and need an ambulance because of the extreme heat we worked in (out of 28) and was rewarded with bullying, crap pay and brutal hours.

Everyone deserves a decent wage.

[brennanhuff]

If they did things properly, I wouldn't have a problem. If the government could force employments to push up the wages they paid people that were higher than minumum wage, which the minimim will be 15 dollars accordingly. For example, say you make $20 an hr and the minimum wage if $10 an hr. You're 10 dollars more than minimum. Don't forget, with increased minumum wage, the increase price in everything else goes up, so it's essential for your higher paying job for your wage to go up too. So if minumum wage is 10 dollars an hour and bumps up to $15 an hr, then people making 20 an hr should be bumped to 25 an hr. But tha't not going to happen, so essentially everyone who makes over 15 dollars an hr is taking a pay cut. College degree, or whatever to work themselves up and make better, well seems like a wasted attempt because now that wage you thought was decent paying is only a little more than minimum wage and not you're paying for things that are pricier and your wage helps even less now.

[ChronicThinker]

Yes, because it's a job that needs to be done and it's a market people use. The money they make means they can put it back into the community while making sure people get their beef and cheese.

We can look down at it all we want until we go through the drive-thru and realize there's no one there to make your Big Mac.

[SouthernGirl23]

So eating animals is putting back into the community? eating beef is poison. Did you hear about the recall? that shit causes cancer

[vald9inches]

wow this SouthernGirl23 is a complete nut job!! like holy shit how dense can you be? lmfao xD

First of all she is not debating if eating meat vs being vegan is good or bad she is talking about the economics of simple jobs building up the middle class and putting back into the community. and 2nd of all while i agree eating more greens and reducing meat in your diet is better for the environment, there is absolutely nothing unhealthy about eating meat if anything being vegan is unhealthy lol and your claim that beef causes cancer is pure retardness that i am not even going to begin to entertain that idea. you might as well have said the earth is flat and is 1000 years old lmfao

[vald9inches]

@SouthernGirl23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeDVNgsYy0k

[ShortCircuit]

I'm not okay with the federal minimum wage being $15/hr. I am most certainly okay with individual businesses deciding to pay their employees $15/hr of their own accord.

However, for the record, my criticism of a $15/hr minimum wage isn't because I believe $15/hr is excessive. In the current economic landscape, getting a degree just isn't realistic for a large amount of people, in conjunction with the cost of living in most areas being so high, so I think $15/hr is reasonable and in most cases needed. However, I am critical of the entire concept of a minimum wage, because I trust that in a free economy, businesses are incentivized by competition to pay their employees fair wages--without government intervention.

[yoshi_wanna_ask]

Yes. It's a basic minimum wage. Meaning they can afford to live *and* save. They can save and get that car or apartment bond or college down payment and have a chance to make something of themselves. Instead of being almost homeless, unable to support themselves *or* save while still cleaning up your mess in one of the most thankless jobs in society.

People earn more in certain jobs because of the education needed to get the job and the demand for the service and when you think about it, who would you rather get a minimum wage; a burger flipper or a lawyer? The cost of living has changed and it *never* should have been $6. Even 'burger flippers' in Korea get paid more than that.

[QuestionMan]

Last time I was at a McDonald's these bad boys were already taking my order. They are far more convenient than a person since they gave me a ton of options to choose from and then I just paid with my credit card.

They exist because it's cheaper than paying someone $15/h today and $17/h tomorrow or whatever the next desired minimum wage will be.

There are burger flipping robots as well. They're in their early stages but within 5 years your average McDonald's will have one.

[Annonymous10000]

Ehhhh it’s kinda unfair for people who do hard labor for less pay but I’d say fast food workers have to deal with a lot of bs

please help me figure out what this phrase means,

“Jenna is overly identified with her animus. She struggles with herself, trying to understand why Aiden does not act the way she expects. His sense of alienation and detachment disappoint her, but her need to respond to the challenges is constantly stimulated by his impartial position. She may lose a significant part of herself, trying to achieve the unachievable, since Aiden, who in the end turns out to be rather a friend than a lover, can not be the kind of man which she subconsciously tries to win.“

[meowcow]

The actual dollar amount is irrelevant.

Leftists have been demanding a "living wage" for all jobs. In a few years, leftists will decide that living wage is now $20... and so on.

The question one should ask, is whether a no-skill job deserves a living wage. This is an important question because there are many jobs that require no skill. Burger flipper, cashier, stock person, Walmart greeter... etc.

If ALL jobs deserve a living wage, what incentive is there for any person to better themselves? Why would anyone finish high school, or go to university or actually contribute something more to society if the bare minimum is all that is needed to earn an income that could buy a home and raise a family?

If you paid a living wage for all jobs, you will have the majority of the population doing the bare minimum with their lives. The world is already overburdened with excessively lazy people. We do not need to incentivize more people to become useless.

[StickStickity13]

You're assuming a lot of things, yet prove nothing. An increase in minimum wage actually helps tax payers more and creates an incentive to work more than a low minimum wage. Also with a higher wage, they can save more money and use it to actually better themselves rather than stay in the cycle of poverty.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13
You said "An increase in minimum wage actually helps taxpayers more and actually creates an incentive to work more than a low minimum wage". Are you kidding me? That makes no sense at all.

When you earn MW, you live a poor life. That in itself is the incentive to become more. To increase your skillset. So that you are not on the bottom rung of the ladder. If you increase MW to a living wage, that creates less incentive to work hard. Not more. Your logic is completely 180 degrees wrong. We already know this is true through welfare recipients. When you give them the bare minimum to live off, they will refuse to work - preferring a life of poverty + unemployment instead of a slightly better life that requires 8 hours work per day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oBaD7wL7Lo

Increasing the MW also does nothing in the long run. They are STILL earning MW no matter what you change the amount to. They STILL have no skills.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

Your view is very narrow and short-term.

Think what will happen in 10 years later. These people will still have no skills, and will demand $20/hour because of inflation. However, I don't expect poor people to understand financials.

If you do not earn minimum wage, you should be outraged at Fight for 15.
Why? Because when the MW is raised significantly, so does the cost of everything else. All goods and services will increase in cost because inflation rises. It does not happen overnight, but it will creep up over months.

This means that if you are a financially responsible person who has money saved in the bank, the purchasing power of your saved cash... DROPS. Yes that's right. 2% inflation normally becomes 4% after the MW is raised. And your saved cash devalues twice the rate as normal.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

just to demonstrate, imagine what happens when MW is increased to $100/hour. Work 8 hours a day and you earn $800. Wow... by your logic, everyone is rich right? Problem solved.

Except your loaf of bread can no longer be $1.99. It is now an $80 loaf of bread. So if you saved $10,000 over several years, your money is now worth the equivalent of 2.5 weeks worth of work. The principle is the same when increasing MW, regardless of the amount. Whether it is $100/hr or $15/hr, the effect is the same. The magnitude is different.

Socialists have tricked stupid poor people with no financial understanding, that Fight for 15 will better their lives. But if you truly think about it, its actual purpose is to reduce the financial value of the middle class while doing nothing for the poor. This is essentially the socialist goal (have everyone worth the same).

[StickStickity13]

You realize that $10,000 will be worth less over time anyways? That's why investing in something with a return is the smarter option. You give an outlandish example at 100 dollars an hour, and price increases aren't that dramatic for stuff like food. Inflation will happen anyways, for someone who claims to understand economics that should be known. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation, and neither has the pay of many other jobs.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

I even said up front that the example of $100/hr was to DEMONSTRATE the effect of increasing MW, since you don't seem to get it. But you stupidly took that example as if I really meant it.

Minimum wage does not need to keep up with inflation. Nor should it. Minimum wage itself should be abolished, because people would be paid what their work is worth. When unskilled jobs have a mandated wage of $15/hr, that person's work must be worth MORE than $15/hr. Otherwise, those jobs will be gone.

This is why companies like fast food and groceries are moving towards automation and self-serve kiosks. Employers are not stupid. They do not move towards this direction unless it makes sense. When employee salaries cost $500k/year, and a new automation system costs $200k up front and 50k/year maintenance, it is the MW to blame for the permanent loss of those jobs.

Thanks for the insult on my intelligence. It really hurts my ego along with the MSc, MBA and $250k salary I have.

[StickStickity13]

You realize that we need people to do these jobs right? You realize not everyone can have the high skill jobs, just on the basis that there's only so many of them. Basically it costs society more to not have a minimum wage than to have a decent one.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

We only need people to do these jobs... until their work is worth less than their pay.
The necessity of a job does not merit a high pay.

Do we need people to sweep the floors? Absolutely.
But every able-bodied person (including children) can sweep floors. If you post this job, then everyone who applies is automatically qualified.

Are you going to pay top dollar for your janitor? You'd be an idiot if you said "yes"... and also bankrupt. When you need a mechanic for your car, or pay for gas, or buy groceries, the one constant factor in your decision is the PRICE. Everyone's behavior is the same in this manner, unless they are looking for something rare, desired, or unique.

A person's wage is essentially a reflection of their skill-set and the demand for their job. A low wage is the incentive for these people to get off their ass and improve themselves. Sadly, many in this position have no desire to do so.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

I also don't think that it is mandatory for people to have a high skilled job.
We are talking about NO-SKILLED jobs.

To put it bluntly, if you are a healthy, intelligent 30-40 years old, and you're flipping burgers, I have no sympathy for you. When a 15 year old kid can work the same job as this 30-40 year old, nobody should have sympathy for them.

The exception I make is if a person is disabled in some manner. Whether born disabled, or injured later in life. I believe a prosperous society should take care of these people, when they are placed there from circumstances beyond their control.

But there's no denying that there are millions of people who are lazy, and lacking ambition. They WANT more money. They WANT WANT WANT, but they lack the motivation to do anything to reach their goal.

Did you notice the Fight for 15 movement never says anything about how increasing their wage will make them work harder? They just want more money. They don't want to work harder

[StickStickity13]

You realize just because it's an easy job, doesn't mean there's no demand for it? This is a massive problem for many industries. Able bodied people can pick fruit, but in the USA we have no choice but to import migrants because the job doesn't pay enough. So just because it's a no skill job, doesn't mean there's not a high demand for it. You should know this Mr. MBA. Not everyone can be intelligent, there's a bell curve. Plus, if one grows up in poverty, how can they get better if they can't afford to better their lives? Sure some places give incentives, but most don't. Not everyone is born with the same opportunities that we have.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

Everyone is of course born with the same opportunities. But equal opportunity and equal outcome are not the same thing.

Every person in this country has the opportunity to go to school. They have the opportunity to study to get good grades and go into higher education. They have the opportunity to pick their field of study. Despite stupid left-wing arguments like "There is a gender gap in the STEM field", the fact is that women choose different fields of study and different careers than men do.

So your OPPORTUNITY is the same as everyone else's. What you do with that opportunity relflects your outcome. The class clown in high school who is now flipping burgers? He made his choice in life long ago. The guy who though school was for losers? Guess what? He had the same opportunity we all did, and he didn't take it. That guy who studied hard and got all straight A's? He took the opportunity presented to him.

[meowcow]

@StickStickity13

It is also a fact that those who are born into poverty are unlikely to remain in that same bracket in adulthood. This is why immigrants who come to the US, with $1 in their pocket can make a better life for themselves. This is why there are more and more young people (60-70%) with university degrees today vs 30 years ago where only 10-15% of people had a degree.

If you're born into poverty, and you study hard in school, and work hard in your job, you are almost guaranteed to move into the middle class unless you get into a horrible situation like family loss, or catastrophic event.

If you squander that opportunity, don't expect anyone to pay you a living wage for a low skilled job that anyone can perform.

[sunsweet]

There are a lot of problems that factor into people's lives. Increasing minimum wage would help account for the inflation over the years and at least help compare to the prosperity baby boomers had doing the same job. But there are a slew of problems in the economy to solve that would help account for that, like real estate. There are also ways to help small businesses that can't pay for a wage increase. It's a complicated question, but the fact that we have so much service industry jobs that need full time workers, they should at least be abel to afford live if they work full time. So it's not that we need to increase minimum wage but rather solve why people can't afford to live. Increasing minimum wage or certain state wages would be a solution, but it would come with a few problems that likewise would need to be dealt with.

[Banyan]

15 dollars an hour is steep. However, if you are working full time, your wage should be enough to live. There's just too many minimum wage Jobs being worked for them not to be a sustainable source of livelihood. 700000 jobs are exactly 7.25 an hour, with many state minimum wages being too low to live of either. We're talking about a one bedroom apartment with food, water, and minimum to no electricity. People cannot physically live off of that paycheck in that life style. The minimum wage has to be a living wage, and has to be tied to inflation. It would most likely be wise to tie it to locational cost of living as being in a rural town like me is much cheaper than living in new york, so it's cost of living would skew my community and probably tank it as a whole. A flat 15 dollars would be dumb, and not get the job done. We need to do this in a way that fucking works.

[DesertCreature]

This question is incomplete.

You must factor in what the wage is for all other activities. If other jobs that require the education, skill, and time equal to that which is required of a "burger flipper" are around $15/hr then yes, otherwise no.

Locality (cost of living) also plays a role in determining wages. The higher the costs the higher wages need to be.

For those making the "they have to make a living" argument you're saying that every job must command a wage singularly capable of supporting the living costs of an individual.

Burger flipping is one of those jobs traditionally meant to ween someone into the general workforce, provide basic experience, and fund the beginnings of a career. These aren't careers themselves, if you try and force them to be it won't work out, the industries can't support them and will do what they have to. Enter kiosks. Not many burger flipper equivalent jobs out there to engineer, program, and maintain kiosks.

[FriendlyDrugDealer]

Yup and it’s not easy to live on your own.

For those who are saying “just go to college and get a better degree “, and what if that career based on that degree is not exactly easy to get into it , what should the person do? Just sit and do nothing and pray for a miracle?

I’m in college, I work at retail pharmacy while living on my own, I get paid a couple dollars above of minimum wage because I took promotions despite the increased work load.

So for other people in similar positions like me or worse, they deserve it.

[Alice2398]

That sounds decent to me that's almost £11 pounds that's higher then the British minimum wage (£8) and the standard of living is cheaper in the US then in the UK so I'd be grateful earning that much I don't even get paid the minimum wage only the apprentices minimum wage which is half the actual minimum wage so I'd be living it up if I was earning that much

[Anon70]

I've worked in fast food, it's horrid for sure, but it's a choice... Sometimes it's your best choice, even though it's a pretty shitty job. Even if you got paid 15 it'd be shitty, but that doesn't mean you're deserving of more. It's not a mentally or physically taxing job. It doesn't take much if any skill... It's not something worth rewarding in my eyes. It's not a job we should encourage people to take up. I think it's a perfect job for someone in college to earn a bit on the side. Or someone who is having a tough time to make some extra money.

[Anonymous]

The market should decide how much a job is worth. If there is high demand but not a lot of people are capable/willing to do the job then they can demand a higher hourly wage. If a job is in high demand but can replace the employee with just about anyone then they should be able to keep the hourly wage low. In case of fast food, despite being a shitty job it's a job any teenager can come off the street and do so there's no reason to raise it to $15 an hour. If you're valuable to the company they will give you the raise that you deserve. If you're not valuable (someone that can easily be replaced) then there is no incentive to give you the raise. So, if you become the best burger flipper in the world and are able to do a high volume of work equivalent of multiple employees and you bring in the numbers that wouldn't be there if you were gone then sure, $15 is justified.. Otherwise, no.

[chrisbigman]

No. I'm all for making sure people have enough to pay their basic needs. But that's it. I have gone to all fast food joints in my area, and every time I've gone my orders have been messed up in one way or another. And it keeps happening. If they can't get the orders correct, then there's no need to reward them with higher pay. And don't tell me that they get busy. Sometimes, it wasn't that busy. So, they should've gotten the orders right, and yet they didn't. Also, working fast food is NOT a career choice. At least, it shouldn't be. I know not everyone can do certain jobs. But not even trying to get a career is ridiculous.

[BuchitaBuchys]

No, I'm not a monster, but I dont think flipping burgers is worth $15/hr. Yes, I understand that they need to make a living too, but raising the minimum wage hurts smaller businesses, creates job loss, and is overall more harmful to the poor (who it's supposed to help).
I'm surprised at the poverty in Chicago because there are so many programs here to help us, but many people refuse because they're lazy, unmotivated, or just content with the many welfare programs.

[AgentDearestZ]

You do know wages went down right? Even 15/h isn't close to what it should have been if the USA kept up with inflation. 7/h isn't even a livable wage, If people would repair the economy then we won't have to worry about small businesses.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@AgentDearestZ how will they repair the economy?

[BuchitaBuchys]

@AgentDearestZ also, its not 7/hr everywhere in the u. s. In Chicago, I believe it's now 13$/hr. And it is livable, not a comfortable or luxurious life, but comfortable.

[WhereAmI]

No, because those jobs are transitional and not meant to be a career unless you go into management which would then qualify you for the higher wages.

If everyone got a wage of $15/hr. then there would be much fewer jobs and more people would be struggling to get by. Also those with $15/hr burger flipping jobs would be worked to death by the managers to make sure they got good workers or threaten them with no job.

Inflation would in all likelihood go up as well since your now paying extra for the burgers. More than likely fewer people eating out.

[WhereAmI]

If we lived in a society where 1/2 your paycheck went to taxes to pay for government provisions of food, shelter and free healthcare, then it wouldn't be much of an issue. Homeless shelters today depend a great deal upon private donations to feed and bed the homeless and there's always a bed shortage in most places if you don't show up early enough. Not a great way to live.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Of course they should. Everyone deserves a living wage for working. I know there's a lot of "but... socialism!" and "business will die!" claims rolling around but the labor market is much, much more complex than that. Those claims usually don't hold up under evaluation.