Should Fast-food Workers Be Paid A $22 USD Per Hour Minimum Wage?

[Physics-Man]

• https://www.yahoo.com/now/law-could-raise-fast-food-130039773.html
• https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sacramento/news/new-california-law-could-raise-fast-food-minimum-wage-to-22-an-hour/
• https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/09/06/california-governor-signs-law-fast-food-workers/8000452001/
• https://thesungazette.com/article/business/2022/09/07/new-bill-could-raise-fast-food-minimum-wages-to-22/
• https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/05/business/fast-food-council-california/index.html
• https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/newsom-signs-fast-food-law-setting-stage-for-22-pay-next-year
• https://www.wsj.com/articles/fast-food-wages-could-increase-to-22-an-hour-in-california-11662398251
• https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/ab-257-22-dollar-minimum-wage-california/
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/06/california-fast-food-bill-minimum-wage-newsom/

Yes

No

Updates

1 y

My full-time job pays $24 per hour. My on-call job $25 per hour. In order to obtain these jobs, the requirements called for a Bachelor's Degree or Military Service, a Guard Card, A Firearms Permit, a Baton Permit, a Taser Permit, a Pepper Spray Permit, and CPR, First Aid, & AED Certification. Together with the National Guard, I make $56,000 before taxes.

Why should Burger Flippers who constantly get my order wrong be paid a wage close to someone who has so much more training?

[MCheetah]

No. Not at all.

1. Their limit skillset is not worth it. If they were worth $22/hr, thet'd already be getting paid $22/hr.

2. Fast food jobs are NOT supposed to be "living wages" (it's not society's fault you failed to go to college or learn a trade skill.)

3. People who are ignorant do not understand that paying job positions more means less jobs to go around, because money is not infinite. (And while some studies suggest it'd only cost $0.70 more per food item to increase worker wages, this would not apply for $22 an hour, nor would it mean an equal or similar number of jobs to go around.) Paying more per position means less open positions, and fast food isn't enough of a high-demand or skilled position to have such limited spots to hire people at $22/hr.

4. If these positions need a salary increase, they could take it directly from the overpaid CEOs and high ranking managers. If those people are unwilling to lower their overpaid salaries, then there's nothing else that can be done.

5. It'd be cheaper and more efficient to replace workers with technology like touch-screen kiosks and food-preparing robots.

Fast food isn't even supposed to be a "living wage." You shouldn't be older than 23, working in fast food, unless you're a manager or franchise owner or something. If you're working in fast food and don't live with your parents, then that's YOUR problem you're a failure in life, not everyone else's. It's not society's job to cater to losers who never sought higher education and don't want to train to be a plumber, electrician, construction worker, or commercial truck driver.

Plenty of non-college-degree jobs out there pay six figures or more, and require six months of less of training. These people advocating for $15 to $22 an hour for fast food are just lazy, unskilled, and entitled, and it's not everyone else's duty to provide lazy, unskilled, and entitled people "a living wage." Even countries like Sweden don't pay $22 an hour for fast food. And the few restaurants that do pay a lot for fast food jobs, have limited positions and are small in chains, like In-N-Out Burger, which mostly only exists in California.

Northern California

Southern California

In-N-Out Burger is mainly just in California and has limited locations.

Should fast food get paid more? Yes; maybe $11 an hour. But not as much or more as most American teachers or trained armed security. Fast food workers can get paid more, if they live in a wealthy enough area and they have limited locations and workers, like In-N-Out Burger. And I said this as a former Wendy's and Taco Bell worker from 2005.

[LiamJHayden]

This is what happens when imbeciles with no actual business experience, which means most legislators, take it upon themselves to create rules based upon their emotions rather than reality. They should all have to at least study what George McGovern had to say when he tried to start a business and encountered bureaucratic stupidity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceupbin/2011/06/14/how-to-create-jobs-by-george-mcgovern/?sh=20f9a5e234f0

[Ill_made_Knight]

Nobody ever really seems to want to talk about the income inequality in the US. Take a good look at the situation and you'll see that in general corporate profits are at an all time high, but corporations view employees as an expense on a spreadsheet nowadays rather than an investment in their business and so are constantly trying to cut wages and staff. CEOs on the other hand are makung bank. In the 1970s CEO pay was something like 15-20 times the wage of the median worker. Recently that number has been reported at numbers in the 300 x range and higher. It is also widely known that companies have been using the pandemic as an excuse to inflate prices more than necessary, gouging consumers.
Simple fact is that the money is there to pay people but corporate strategy has changed as their lobbyists successfully eliminate all regulation that stands in the way of pure profit for their major shareholders (who demand higher and higher profit year after year... unrealistic).
If the corporations are not reigned in and regulated as was the case before they will run this country into the ground. Do you suppose any of the higher crime rates that people are noticing happens because they aren't making enough money to get by?
Stop blaming poor people for all the problems. The practices of the inhumane corporations are what keeps them poor and desperate when they could do better.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3048172/ceo-pay-has-risen-90-times-faster-than-average-worker-pay-since-the-1970s

[zagor]

Do you really think underpaid workers are the ones who commit crimes?

[Ill_made_Knight]

@zagor people are gonna do whatever it takes to eat, feed their kids... many already live IN THE STREET and still are working... you can be VERY sure that lots of crimes are committed bby the working poor... poverty drives crime and there's a LOT of it in the US... so yes, there is NO doubt that people trying to survive commit crimes. Do you suppose they do not?

[zagor]

No I think the vast majority of crimes are committed by the non-working poor. Ignoring sociopathic crimes like the recent murders in Idaho, most crimes are committed by people with a long record of criminal activity, often going back to adolescence, not some guy who can't get by on his Wal-Mart paycheck.

[Ill_made_Knight]

You are propagandized

[zagor]

No, you are. I look at the news. You are so set in your ideology that you are unable to look at the inconvenient facts.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@zagor so you are going to tell me that ALL of the crime is due to prior offenders and career criminals... crime rate for thefts etc. is up. Career criminals responsible for all that too?
Common sense ad statistics. More Americans in poverty, more WORKING AMERICANS in poverty... these people are gonna eat. Also leads to deaths of despair, suicide, drug overdose. There's more than that, but suffice to say the heartless greedy corporations are crushing the bottom 60% of Americans. So yeah... sure... it's only the career criminals.

[zagor]

I never said all crime. Yes, more poverty does cause more crime, but it isn't the driving force of most crime. Even most crime committed by the homeless isn't due to poverty but rather mental illness or substance abuse.

If you look at the record of the last 50 years or so you find that crime isn't so much related to poverty as it is to the proportion of 16-30 year old's in the population. Young people get bored and do stupid stuff. Video games probably prevented more crime than anti-poverty programs.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@zagor poverty drives some crime... crime is on the rise... pay people a living wage and the crime rate will drop... as I said. No further discussion necessary

[zagor]

Unless higher pay means fewer jobs.

[TheNameIsRob]

Only if you like paying $25 for a combo. What people don’t understand is that the cost of doing business gets passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Rather than trying to raise minimum wage why not try and learn more/new skills to make yourself more valuable? You know, show up on time, do things that aren’t necessarily part of your job description on occasion, be a positive influence on other employees, take a class or two to enhance your skill set, put in extra effort as if you owned the place and many other ways one can improve their career path.

[exitseven]

It is a lot easier to complain about how unfair life is and hope that democrats can raise the minimum wage.

[holdem4884]

Yeah, that's a great theory but when Walmart is by far the largest private employer in the US, most people can't do that by definition! Most jobs are low paying, low skilled jobs. How does that fit with your conservative theory? Yeah, it doesn't work.

[TheNameIsRob]

@holdem4884 Assuming you replied to what I wrote, it worked for me. Took some time and lots of hard work, but it worked.

[Anonymous]

So a plain hamburger will cost $12?

Raising their minimum wage raises the prices of everything, so they won't be able to afford it making $22 and then they'll want $30, and then prices will go up again, and so on.

The way to stop getting paid low wages is to stop being an unskilled person. You don't need a Harvard degree, but you do need skills that are valuable to people who will pay for them. Plumbers make a fortune and people pay them. Find something like that, get the skills, and do it.

[NamerOfStars]

Saying that people who perform a certain job shouldn't be paid a living wage is saying that people who do that job don't deserve to live. Do you really not see why that's a problem? If you don't pay enough to live on for the job, no one is going to (reliably) do it. Why should a person who has less training than you be paid the same amount? Aside from the fact that degree inflation has rendered most jobs ludicrously overdemanding for what it actually requires, your poor valuation of your skills and experience doesn't determine what their labor is worth.

I mean, a big part of the reason blue collar work is in such sorry shape these days is the decline in the power of labor unions, which YOUR industry helped bring about. Why should Pinkerton-disguising Communism enablers like yourself be paid more than honest burger flippers?

[Smc08]

So your saying that burger flippers are just as important as teachers who actually get paid on average of 20 dollars an hour nation wide?

Seriously. That’s why people don’t want to work hard anymore. What’s the point. I bust my ass to get threw college and still pay off my loans and all you gotta do is flip burgers to make 5 dollars more.

by the way 25 an hour is beyond livable. California is just stupid and thinks everyone should be paying more to live in general.

[NamerOfStars]

@Smc08 Oh, the idea, as floated, is totally ludicrous- especially the SPEED it would happen at; evidently basic economic history isn't required to be an economist anymore (think the theory's wrong and you have a better understanding than the experts do? It could happen- it has before- but you need evidence from psychology, sociology, biology, geography, geology or some other relevantly related field (or more than one of them, of course; more is better) to support it).

It's also not true that it's "beyond livable"; it maybe where YOU live; it certainly is where I do, but that's not the case in the heart of LA. And are you really complaining about people not wanting to bust their asses to get into a high-paying job when yours pays so little?

[Smc08]

Ok you tell me then. Why have so many left their jobs to do onlyfans? Not just teachers, other professions are getting hard to fill and everyone is short staffed. But sure fast food is more important than children getting a decent education. Give all the raises to fast food, but that money is not trickling up is the problem. So people don’t want those harder jobs now. You can do more effortless stuff now to make a living. If anyone should have to get two jobs it should be these people. Instead there’s people even where I live struggling and have to use door dash to get the rest of what they need for there families so that people in fast food can be more comfortable. And all thr food is going to be more expensive as a result and harder on everyone else that you claim has it easier.

[Smc08]

Actually your ideals fall more into communism and socialism than anyone’s here. We are all more on the side of capitalism actually. Capitalism= you determine what you make based on your efforts. Communism= governments decides how much you will make and everything is more even. Everyone becomes poor but the government eventually.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 Sounds to me like your "brand" of capitalism is giving you a hard ride in the hind quarters, forced to overpay for an education that got youu a job that the powerrs that be STILL don't pay you well enough to simplify your life any... they want you precarious and compliant so you'll be a good boy. Seems like you should be angry that daddy won't pay YOU what you're worth either, so how does it help you to make sure that the people over there get screwed worse than you? There are no pure capitalist or socialist states in the world... NONE. They are all mixed economies in some degree, and if you want to know who benefits from socialism in the USA you'll have to look UP. It's the corporations and the financial institutions. The poor have no power and are a convenient scapegoat. CEO pay is now more than 300 times the median pay of workers... it was something like 20 as recently as the 70's. They are being allowed to run rampant and will ruin this country.

[Smc08]

@Ill_made_Knight “Seems like you should be angry that daddy won't pay YOU what you're worth either, so how does it help you to make sure that the people over there get screwed worse than you?”

Seems like your the type to ask daddy for help and live with daddy and happily flip burgers and live off his back than actually be good at something and make an effort to be better. We just ain’t the same. 😂

[Smc08]

To each his own. We’re all different. I can except that. We can just agree to disagree. Food. You said you like food? I like food too. What’s your favorite fast food? I love me some Popeyes.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 Bad assumptions. I am a college grad and I do fine. I am a very hard working man and always have been, but I have seen times that were better for the general population and I can see what that difference is... paying people a living wage is not socialism, it's smart business. For the record if they were to raise those wages and then pass that cost along to the consumer that would also be a greed move. Go check the net profit of some of these public corporations... and of course, food is good. Do you want people who have no choice but to live in the street making yours?

[Smc08]

@Ill_made_Knight I don’t think it’s a one answer fits all situation. But I don’t think it’s wise to go from capitalism to communism/socialism so quickly. I think everyone should live affordably but I also think you should get paid based on what’s required in the job. Because on paper socialism seems ideal but in reality it turns into flat out communism every time in the worst way. If you don’t increase wage in the middle and only in the poor eventually there will only be the poor and the government. It needs to be raised across the board.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 That's what I'm saying, and I do NOT advocate for communism or socialism... I entered the workplace in the late 70's and it is a vastly different place than it was then. Has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism, it has to do with what the capitalists running the companies value. You are an expense that they want to cut cost on. In times past employees were viewed as assets that made the company better... it's an attitude shift that I have personally experienced and lived through over decades of work life. Capitalism is capable of having a heart, but it currently has none. So after people lose their homes and most things in life that give them dignity because of corporate greed, the corporation has the temerity to moan and cry about no one wanting to "work anymore"? Corporate profit above all else and at all costs... income inequality is now worse than it was in the 1890's when they had little kids greasing the machines from the inside evenn wile they were running, losing fingers and limbs and lives while the machine continued to run. This country is becoming ever more cruel under the boot of the oligarchs, and it must be reigned in, but that doesn't equal socialism... how about promoting the general welfare of the people?

[Ill_made_Knight]

and yes I agree the wage in the middle must rise also... What they are doing too teachers is criminal, there are several in my family... many of them can't afford to be teachers anymore even though it's their calling.

[Smc08]

@Ill_made_Knight were on the same page we just disagree about how it should be fixed. I feel like me and you have the same social concerns tho. I just think you gotta do more than raise minimum wage. If you only do that it’s only going to make the cost of basic stuff like food go higher. And over time all we do is raise minimum wage. Sure it helps them. But there’s a whole middle class that’s also affected and disappearing. And they are being ignored. It’s great for entry level but what about the people that want to go beyond that. Where is their opportunity to get a raise. This country laws were set for capitalism. You can’t just fix part of it you gotta fix the whole thing. When do we tell all of the top 1% to pay all the people fairly in general. I feel like that’s why the asker pointed out that the job she's doing pays 22. It’s not right to her. It ain’t to me either.

[Smc08]

Him sorry. I’ve been all over the place today

[Smc08]

My bad dude works for the gov and get paid about the same. Dude risk his life for the country to come back and be paid the same as a burger flipper. And he’s dying for them.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 In past there were strong labor unions that fought for fair pay and better conditions. I do remember them and they are good and bad, but the big thing is if you can get wages raised by a few companies in your industry then others will be forced to follow suit. The more people that get raises anywhere increases the pressure everywhere... if a company wants to exist it must have employees. Shortt of government involvement unions are the best answer historically speaking. Another thing is monopoly busting... if only one or a few companies control the entire market of a given thing then there is no competition on what wages should be, and you will be lowballed every time... There needs to be some monopoly busting going on... AND the cost of a college education has to come down. I attended college in the 80's and paid it as I went on a part time retail job. I can't imagine ANY reason young folks should need to mortgage their future for the CHANCE to get a good paying job that might not even pan out... the game is rigged

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 Your guy deserves better than what they are doing... seems the country has never done right by those who served all the way back to agent orange and Viet Nam... not a good thing

[Smc08]

@Ill_made_Knight it’s not my man. The asker of this question put those details in the update section. That’s why he made this post. He had to do all of this stuff and certificates and what not making 25 and hour in the military and the people flipping burgers are making the same. That’s what he’s talking about. It has nothing to do with people being homeless and being able to afford it. That’s fine. But give the people who try in life there dues.

[Ill_made_Knight]

@Smc08 apologies for the misunderstanding... so it used to be that there were benefits to being military that weren't strictly monetary. Help with college, help with buying a home etc... but they have never been good at caring for those that end up with any sort of issues mentally... medically... and one of the claims that they will make is that your value to an employer will be higher if you are ex military, which is sometimes true... Youy would think the go't would be ashamed, but it took Jon Stewart being rammed up their ass to get anything done about suffering first responders etc... it's all about accountability, none of those at the top are accountable to US, and it's going to be hard to change it. Not many people are getting a fair shake these days but the top dogs.

[Smc08]

@Ill_made_Knight if your active duty and you retire with full honors you get all those fancy benefits. And if you become disabled while in the military it depends on how bad it is they will pay and additional percentage. If your mental thats 50% a leg is 30% so on and so on. But only after you’ve served 20+ years. By this guys update I’m assuming he’s not active duty. He’s in the reserves or the coast guard probably. You can retire but it won’t support you. Its not meant to either. It serves two purposes. To get people trained to become officers first and stop a national draft from happening if there’s war. But they try really hard to get you to do active. To further influence you they offer to pay your education but you gotta serve 6 years active when you come out.

[SnowedIn]

Yes and no. On the one hand, we ought to live in a world where a person who works hard (defining and agreeing on what that is is really difficult) should be able to live meaning, afford lodging and transportation and power and water and leisure activities.

But.

I don't want to pay $30 for a burger and fries. Labor costs get passed on to the customer -- I don't expect an employer and business owner to subsidize their employees; that's not the point of business.

I also believe that while people should get paid enough to live, there is also work that is inherently much more valuable to society and work that has much higher risk. We don't pay those workers enough and so I struggle with the idea of paying fast food workers more but not, for example (there are many) teachers or child care workers or firefighters much much more.

[holdem4884]

Teachers have a median wage of $39.72 in California, almost double this proposed minimum. Cost of living there is crazy.

[BeMuse]

I don't even buy fast food anymore. They've already priced themselves out of the market. If they want raise costs even more in order to justify firing all low wage workers and replacing them with touch screen kiosks and robotic workers so that the poor can be in a constant state of poverty looking toward the government for handouts and a communist system, that's up to those companies. They will push the agendas they want to push with the money they are able to raise from the public.

[Juxtapose]

"If the minimum wage did rise in step with productivity growth since 1968 it would be almost $21.50 an hour."

https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/

[DryGermanGuy]

I would argue that depends on the state, or better, county they are working in? Some areas in California have become so insanely expensive that even households with a 100k income struggle to pay the bills.

[lightbulb27]

haven't studied the numbers.

we're going to end up driving people out of those jobs. What it does is end up cost justifying using technology to displace workers. maybe that's the plan.

Sad. What we need to do is get spending under control at the federal level. lets talk about that rather than the down stream effects.

We're in bad shape because we went off the gold standard and the govt is out of control.

[whirled_up_girl]

I’m not sure why it should be raised for just fast workers and not others in the service community like cashiers. Or even city workers like EMTs, firefighters and public transit operators etc. It’s seems if they raise minimum wage it would be better to raise it across the board. I agree though with the comments that wages should be adjusted for cost of living in those areas.

[bulldoglover3]

No way! My mom works in the school system. She would earn a lot more money if she went to a fast food chain. Its a load of bull crap. People working there whole lives and going through college earn less then someone who probably did not go to college and is most likely not working as many hours as hard working people get more money. Think about it...

[holdem4884]

Why the hell do you think people who go to college earn less than those who don't? That happens in RARE cases but is absolutely not typical and there's no reason why it would be. If it were, people who did go to college would 1) stop doing so, 2) stop listing it on their resume. Brainless comment

[bulldoglover3]

@holdem4884 Excuse me maybe your the one with the brainless comment get your head out of your ass and use your brain. Lets do the math. The national median wage is 32 dollars and 46 cents. Teachers make on average 27 dollars fast food workers would earn 22 dollars (USD). 5 dollar difference one went to college to do what they do others may not have even finished high-school!

[holdem4884]

Let me restate my question since you weren't able to comprehend it the first time.

How could you possibly be so stupid as to say that people who go to college earn less than people who do not?

While you chose a faulty comparison, your own math disproves your claim. The college educated teacher in your example makes MORE than those who "may not have finished high-school."

Let's do the math with an accurate comparison. Teachers in CALIFORNIA, where this minimum wage is being proposed, have a median salary of $82,746.

That's $39.78/hour --- almost DOUBLE the $22/hour proposed minimum. College degrees make a difference, understand?

Find yourself a brain, then remove foot from mouth.

[bulldoglover3]

@holdem4884 Okay that's California not national that makes a difference!

[coachTanthony]

Yes they should get paid 25 an hour until the corporate world figures out how to install AI and remove said workers. Nobody wants to pay 10 bucks for a hamburger because Timmy the fry guy is making 50k a year.

[CateM]

I work in fast food. And yes, it would be nice to make twice what I make now, if they were to do that, they'd have to raise prices. As a result, that will contribute to the growing inflation in America's economy

[Soldieronamission]

Liberal socialists think it's great for their constituents but most small businesses to include some franchise owners can't afford it. The theory of entitlement has ruined the younger generation who no longer want to work laborious or unskilled jobs and would rather be "influencers" thinking they're gonna make it rich.

[FunkyMonkee]

Fuck no!! What for? Those are stepping stone jobs, not careers!! You only get those to fill the gap from one job to the next or to be able to save up money to get out of your parents' house and get a better job.

[holdem4884]

Yeah, that's a great theory but when Walmart is by far the largest private employer in the US, most people can't do that by definition! Most jobs are low paying, low skilled jobs. How does that fit with your conservative theory? Yeah, it doesn't work.

[FunkyMonkee]

@holdem4884 So? Go get a job at Wal-Mart! You might actually EARN your money, there!
Your way doesn't work at al!!

[holdem4884]

You've completely missed the point. You're blaming people for structural economic problems.

While a minority of people can do better for themselves, most will not be able to. Why?

As long as most jobs are low skilled and pay garbage, by definition it's what will be available to most people regardless of their skill or education level. This is a logically unavoidable conclusion.

I'm not saying raise the minimum wage everywhere, I'm saying we need economic policies that create meaningful work for people to do at living wages.

Supply side economic policies that funnel money upwards and concentrate it in a few hands is disastrous.

[FunkyMonkee]

@holdem4884 The point is, if you start paying those employees $22 an hour, the price of EVERYTHING they're hired to sell goes up DRAMATICALLY!! In order for we, the consumers, to BUY this stuff, WE have to get paid more money! That means that, if we get paid more, whatever products or services WE create have to be sold for more!! That means everything across the board becomes a LOT more expensive!! Then those burger flippers aren't gonna be making enough money so, they'll demand $35 an hour!! Then the WHOLE THING starts ALL OVER AGAIN! where does it end?
Let's look at it the other way: they get $22 an hour so, the prices have to be raised dramatically for the company to be able to afford to pay them but, people buying this stuff deem it too expensive and REFUSE to buy it because THEY don't make enough! That company can't get people to buy their products so, they go out of business and NOW where is that pimple-faced kid? Back in mom's basement because greed got the better of them!! Get it?
When you were little, did you DREAM of becoming a burger flipper? I don't know of ANYONE that did! They KNOW it's just a temporary job to give them money in their pockets `til something better comes along! And, are very many of them WORTH the $22 an hour? NO!! Most of them are lazy as fuck and don't think they're being paid enough to DO those jobs, no matter HOW MUCH they're getting!! I know because I've seen it!! I used to work for a bank and, 4 times a year, we'd need to hire temps to help us out. Minimum wage was $7.25 but they were being paid at least $8.50. We asked them to just sit at a table and write sets of numbers on a few boxes of folders, REALLY easy money!! They would rather sit there and talk and complained they weren't being paid enough to do this job a 5th-grader would've done for a bag of candy!!

[FunkyMonkee]

@holdem4884 On top of that, at least 1/3 of their day WAS just sitting talking with their buddies because we had to WAIT long periods of time for the work to come in! That means, they're getting paid 8 hours wages for about 4 or 6 hours of work! They're ALREADY making nearly twice what they're earning!! But, that's STILL not enough, for them!!
True, SOME of these jobs can lead to a lifetime career but, it works the same as with pretty much any other job. You start out cutting lawns for your neighbors for a quick buck. Next thing you know, you get so much into it, you turn it into a business and expand to cutting lawns all over the city! Golf courses, etc., you become a pro! But, these are all just stepping stone jobs, like delivering the paper. It puts cash in your pocket `til you can get out in the real world to make REAL money!
Hamburgers are ALREADY $5 or $6 a pop!! If YOU wanna pay $10 or $12 for a hamburger, you go right ahead and stand behind that wage hike!! The BEST way to do it is to LOWER costs across the board!! Besides, if you start them out at $22 an hour, they'll have nothing to step up TO!! No incentive to move up the ladder because EVERYONE'S making 22 an hour!! Might as well just flip burgers instead of busting ass at a construction job!
When I was a kid, gas was never more than 25 CENTS a gallon!! Now, look at it!! Besides sleepy Joe severely fucking up the economy, prices across the board are through the fucking roof!! What got it that way, GREED!! When my parents were kids, gas was about a nickel a gallon!! That's only about 70 or 80 years ago!! You could go to the grocery store with a dollar bill, come home with a bag full of groceries (enough to feed a small family for a week!) AND CHANGE!!

[holdem4884]

You didn't respond to the points I raised at all.

I worked in fast food while in high school along side a mechanical engineer who was out of work and now flipping burgers. I also worked another entry level job and had a guy reporting to me who had worked for decades as a petroleum engineer. I could go on ad nauseam with example. These aren't pimpled faced teens. It's a fucked up waste of experience and talent and it's happening more now than ever.

[FunkyMonkee]

@holdem4884 Isn't making $7.50 an hour until they can get back on their feet better than making nothing at all and being forced to live in a cardboard box under a bridge?
So, you expect these burger places to just go, "Well, you used to make $50 an hour so, that's what we're gonna pay you, too." SORRY!! It AIN'T gonna happen!! I should know! I've had a number of jobs where I made more than $7.50 an hour and,. due to various circumstances, I lost those jobs! When I got my next job, all they gave me was what they'd pay ANYBODY ELSE!! NO MATTER WHAT I used to earn!! The new boss DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU USED TO MAKE! He's offering you a job at a much lower pay than you're used to! If that's not good enough for you, it's up to YOU to accept his offer or tell him to go to hell!! At which point, you have to continue your job search! That's the way the system works!! I feel sorry for your friends that have decided of their own accord to take a shit job after having lost a much better one but, that's the way it works!! I've heard of quite a few stories of famous people that used to make millions making movies, records, books, t. v. shows, etc., and then, one day, lost it all and had to either flip burgers or live in a box!
If I was a billionaire, I'd LOVE to walk around handing out shitloads of cash to those box people to allow them to buy an actual house!!
You know what MY last job was? I was a fucking JANITOR!! I worked 3 days a week 6 hours a day for $7.50 an hour!! It kept me from losing my house!! In the meantime, my band was working on our third album when we broke up, I HAD a job in a print shop just before that janitor gig, and was making $11.50 an hour!!

[FunkyMonkee]

@holdem4884 I did voice acting in Hollywood movies, I've helped a number of people write their books and I still have people, 20 years after the band broke up, asking for an autograph or at least thrilled to meet me and tell me how great they thought I was playing drums!! Is ANYBODY giving ME $22.00 an hour to flip burgers? NO!! Nor would I expect them too!! I'll take minimum, just like everybody else because that's all the job is worth!!

[holdem4884]

If your story is to be believed, with your vast array of talents it would be a terrible waste to pay you $22 to flip burgers. If you've been in the work force for over 20 years and you're considering an entry level job, God help us all. You prove my point perfectly.

Our economy wastes massive amounts of human talent and potential, all while making people feel like worthless cogs.

[monorprise]

They should be paid whatever they are willing and able to work for. They have the right to set that number for themselfs.

[holdem4884]

No they don't. Why is there a labor shortage while corporations have record profits? Because companies aren't willing to pay people what jobs are actually worth. Simple supply and demand, by definition!

[monorprise]

@holdem4884 The labor shortage is a result of decades worth of low birth rates as well as immigration and trade restrictions many of which Joe has yet to overturn.

A labor shortage exist anytime companies can't find as many people as they like at the price the want to do the jobs they need doing. Until recently this was deliberately kept unusual by outsourcing or importing whatever low skilled labor was required via liberal trade and immigration polices.

They use to talk about this as controlling the cost of labor.

[holdem4884]

It sounds like you don't understand basic supply and demand economic theory. In a properly functioning market, if the supply is short and demand is high, prices go up until the two meet. In the case of labor, prices are wages and benefits. These would have increased dramatically to meet the shortage if we had a functioning market system, but we don't.

[monorprise]

@holdem4884 They have increased but only to the point that businesses needed to to meed their demand and could afford to pay.

Hence why the rate of increase slowed in the last few years on the lower end due to a larger supply of low skill labor filling that need and the drop in the buying power of the American people due to inflationary taxes.

The market isn't broken it just now includes much of the Latin American unskilled labor supply again.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Totally depends state, city and town.

Minimum wages should be adjusted for inflation and cost of living.

If a cheap apartment for rent cost $12,000 a month then paying someone $12 or $14 a hour isn't a fair wage etc.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

$1,200

[holdem4884]

He nailed the answer.

Cost of living in most of California is insane, just comparing wages makes no sense.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@holdem4884: Thanks

[anon171999]

Yes, unless its a family owned business with only 1 location. If a business has enough money to open a second or more location, it has enough money to pay the liveable wage in this country.

[BlawnDeee]

I think $22 usd for a no experience neccessary job requiring little to no experience is a bit unrealistic. A living wage is something i agree with but $22 is quite a bit more than that

[MCheetah]

Fast food isn't even supposed to be a "living wage." It's not society's job to cater to losers who never sought higher education and don't want to rain to be a plumber, electrician, construction worker, or commercial truck driver.

[exitseven]

No, we should make it 40 bucks an hour. Why the hell not?