It is not clear what the purpose of such a change in the law would be. However, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding about why the vote exists.
As the 18th century British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke put it, “The case for universal suffrage and political equality does not rest on any superstition that all men, by acquiring the vote, will become equally wise or equally intelligent. It rests, both historically and philosophically, on the belief that if any section of the community is deprived of the ability to vote, then its interests are liable to be neglected and a nexus of grievances is likely to be created which will fester in the body politic.”
The point being that the vote exists as a socially stabilizing force. Take that away from an otherwise legitimate - if not especially well educated - segment of the population and the stage is set for social upheaval. To be sure, the exercise of the right to vote may not be well used, but human affairs in any case do not admit of such perfection.
In any case, presumably withholding the vote from high school dropouts would be less the issue than the deterrent effect to dropping out that the threat of losing the right to vote would represent to those in high school. That would likely not prove very effective.
To start, even in presidential elections, voter turnout is not especially high. Usually around only 55% or so of otherwise eligible voters. Further, in general, the lower the level of educational attainment, the lower the voter turnout rates. Thus, in both the general and the particular, the threat of losing the right to vote would not likely improve high school graduation rates.
Therefore it is best to leave well enough alone. By leaving each citizen the right to vote except in extraordinary circumstances such as criminal conviction, the right as a whole is preserved placed on firmer grounds and the social order is stabilized over the long run.
By that reasoning most of the population shouldn't vote because very very few people are up to date with politics. In fact studies have shown that college graduates have for the past thirty years or so, been getting MORE ignorant not less. They have been surveying and testing incoming students and the outgoing graduates and have found that their has been a marked decrease in their reading comprehension, their knowledge of history, their knowledge of how the government works and civics in general, as well as critical thinking (if memory serves).
So if anything we could argue that a non college graduate is probably MORE likely to be trustworthy because while the college graduate has a measurable lack of knowledge at least the highschool drop out would have to have some kind of real world understanding i. e. a real job and have had to pay bills etc.
Though again, by your reasoning you shouldn't vote for anything except what you have majored in i. e. what does a psychology student know of economics? Absolutely nothing so why should she be voting on whether or not we should have this economic plan or another? If your not a law student or a police officer, why should you be able to have an opinion on law or how those laws are executed? By your reasoning you shouldn't. So do you think its okay for you to lose the right to vote, because that's what will happen if you where to implement this plan?
What qualifies anyone? I know people who have or will soon graduate highschool and STILL have no idea what is going on in our country.
The point of a representative democracy (which both the USA and Canada have) is to as accurately as possible represent everyones views. Obviously it would be impossible with the size of our nation to have everyone vote on every issue, so the closest thing to everyone voting is representation.
Liberalism is the belief that all people deserve equal rights and treatment. Yes, it is different than the political party. If we decide that some pepple don't have the right to vote than that means we are not truly a liberal society, and you do not value free speech and human rights.
I am pretty sure you do not feel this way, but feel free to let me know.
Once you abandon equality, then it gives people permission to push it futher. Are non university graduates really able to make good decisions? Are people who have not graduated in political sciences really able to make good decisions? Actually is anyone who is not currently a political member able to make good decisions? Why don't we have a dictatorship or oligarchy? That was only the most "qualified" people are making decisions. That's what you want right? Only "qualified" people?
Also you are ignoring why people drop out of highschool. It is not the best option for their life. There are kids who come from broke families and need to make money or they will starve. There are kids who come from abusive families that are not able to complete highschool because of their "caregivers". Or let's not forget immigrants who don't have an "Amarican" education. People don't graduate for all sorts of reasons. That doesn't mean they are not up to date on political affairs.
No matter the reason, they are a part of the country. They should have the right to represent their views and push the country in whatever way is best for them.
totally a impossible task due to the constitution in usa
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I don't support taking the rights away from highschool dropouts or mentally challenged people, but the arguments against such propositions have been incredibly weak so far:
- They have to appeal to some anomalies like autodidacts and inventors or some propaganda surveys, none of which can be considered formal, let alone scientific
Step 1 in helping highschool dropouts is to recognize that statistically they are completely inferior in every type of skill that requires thinking in comparison to a college graduate, even when it comes to things outside of the graduate's major. That is the underlying principle of recruitment process of any company that isn't fraud/shell company.
Fun experiment: Try right now to apply for non technical position in any serious company, like customer relation or receptionist, see if the first thing they ask you is a degree, any degree in any field, even if it has nothing to do with the job.
Step 2 is to help them fill the gap in their skill with alternative education like MOOCs, edX, Udacity, professional certificates, etc. Well, if you can't do these online programs, then that's just too bad :)
I'm against any idea that takes power away from those who already have no power. People with money and education already have a disproportionate amount of power if you take away highschool dropouts the establishment would love it. They're already trying to decrease turnout in every way possible because they know old people with money are the ones that will show up to every election. So they try and make it as hard as possible for anyone else to vote because they know if they do that nobody who wants any kind of change will ever win.
I dropped out of highschool to work full time. I knew I didn't want to go to college and I already had a job, so I didn't see the point in continuing. One of my brothers also dropped out, but he's in prison now so he already can't vote. I know several other dropouts and most of them are just as competent as their peers who did graduate, but I'll say I'm a little slower at least, so there may be something to that. We can all read though.
Actually a thing-- at least among the people I know-- I've noticed is that the dropouts are more likely to be democrats. I found that interesting. But I don't think that should disqualify their vote, because they're still citizens.
You know what I just realized that this question reminds me of how the voting system used to be you have to be a landowner to vote, and that way the white men were basically the only ones who could vote. I know a highschool diploma isn't land, but it is something.
Hell no. You crazy?
I know so many highschool dropouts who are in a much better position than me (who has been a straight A* student all my life).
They're already working and studying to get a better position. They're supporting their family and getting engaged. THEY'RE JUST 20. They left school at 15 and they struggled at first. BUT LOOK AT THEM NOOOW.
Not everyone is accademically talented or book smart and it's okay because good grades aren't everything.🤷♀️ I'm not saying that they don't mean shit.
It's just that they're not an accurate reflection of someone's capabilities.
Frankly voting should be reserved for veterans and those who own real estate. Hell, I'd even be fine with those who have done one and own the other having two votes. At least those of us who do have actual skin in the game and not merely voting with their hands held out would finally have a legitimate voice and not toiling for the benefits of others' who make government sponsored subsidy a career move.
Taking from another who earned it to give it to another who does not is not altruism in spite of what progressive thought believes. Charity by the taking of another's earnings is called theft by any other definition. This just happens to be government sponsored theft.
No. Have you ever heard of a literacy test? It test for the intelligence of people to see if they could vote and it was used to discriminate against African American (this was due to the school inequality at the time). A requirement for people to graduate high school could discriminate against people of the lower class, barring them from getting a job. If you really want all the voters to be educated, you have to provide aids to families which are struggling financially.
And no, military services should not be required to graduate. Military service should be voluntary.
I dropped out of high school. I am self employed, know three languages well and one at a basic level, have been to 23 countries, read three dozen books every year, spent one year in the army cadets, two years doing first aid volunteering, did a decade of martial arts (Karate, Aikido, Jui Jutsu, and a bit of Krav Maga), took various dance lessons (breakdance, Hip hop, and ballroom lessons) for a couple years, have attended three elementary schools and 2 high schools, lived in three houses, worked in construction and landscaping in the past, have family who came from the USSR, and now I am finishing my courses online to get my diploma and apply to university for economics.
Unlike many of university attending peers, I voted for a party that did not promise handouts and a bunch of free stuff.
High school drop outs are often skilled equally in other areas. I say this as a 4.0 student in the top 10 of her class, so no this isn't me "making excuses for myself". Also, voting is a right. Graduating high school has absolutely nothing to do with that and cannot and should not ever change your rights.
And if we did that? Poor children who don't have the time to study properly will often lose their right to vote. We cannot afford that. And the government would probably use that as a way to prevent minorities from voting as well.
I was dropout, due to my health.
But now I'm on my PhD course, not every dropout is same and not every circumstance same.
Do not forget, if you going to judge everyone, by ability to climb a tree, fish will feel very dumb. ( I think it was Einsteins words)
Yes, I agree dumb people, should not be allowed to vote, but government will never allow it as stupid people is easiest to manipulate and you need to find other criteria to judge them on, so it is not so discriminating and do not ban such a big part of society.
Do not forget elections is gimmick anyway, they do what they need there anyway, not what you want. Just give you some illusion of control.
You assume high-school is too valuable.
High school diploma doesn't make you smart, it means you can take orders and parrot facts. High school is for mediocre people. A lot of smart people leave early and take up a something useful like a trade or start a business. Plenty of them are way smarter than highschool or university graduates -- and I say that as a guy who went on to university and is aiming for a PHD. Finishing highschool or a even getting as high as a PHD doesn't make more more qualified to vote. Often people with PHDs are the worst. Their head is too far up their ass, they take a small error and they can build on it and compound the mistake in ways stupid people can't. Too often "education" is mistaken for intelligence, and intelligence is too often overestimated.
Being a high school drop out doesn't mean a person isn't smart. There are many reasons why a person didn't finish high school. My brother ended up getting his GED in 30 minutes without studying. He had been kicked out of high school for something and instead of waiting the year to enroll after the punishment he went ahead and got his GED. He graduated ahead of his high school class. He has a pretty high IQ he just didn't like school.
Ouch. How hurtful can you get?
Do you understand that many people drop out just because they need to work? Because they can't really afford to study anymore?
Anyone should be allowed to vote, while it's true some people are more educated in politics than others, discriminating like this makes you a horrible citizen... If you think like that about people without education, for what kind of preseident would you vote?
How about people who failed High school due to trauma's, medical reasons or even just due to being bullied out of school or GETTING A JOB DUE TO SKILL.
A 'good' education is not all important. I am studying now to be a secretary but i already have a document saying i can do all that by being a psychologist.
But i would be hired quicker if i get the secretary document.
All high school is is for socializing and to keep kids off the streets.
Ok well then considering that studies have shown highly intelligent and highly educated people are more likely to get caught by scams than uneducated people the converse argument can be made that those who do go to college should be barred from voting because their increased education makes then egotistical and easily manipulated by left media establishments and as such cannot speak for the majority or even in most cases have any experience of life outside of their overly privileged bubble.
Well, I mean... in fairness, two VERY smart people I know dropped out, they eventually did get GEDs but they weren’t any dumber before the GED test. Meanwhile I know a couple Ph. D’s, including a medical doctor, who I wouldn’t trust to order my pizza toppings for me.
So don’t confuse conventional “book learnin’ “ with “life intelligence”, education and schooling don’t tell the whole story, nor does it make their political feelings any more valid.
Fifteenth Amendment
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Compulsory school attendance seems like it could be interpreted as servitude to some degree.
Voting should be restricted to:
1. Must be at least 25 years old, because the frontal lobes of the brain are not developed fully before that age.
2. Must have completed, or be engaged in, military service. Think Starship Troopers: service brings citizenship.
3. Self evidently, must be a citizen.
4. Must be a net taxpayer.
You guys are far too g (r) eeky - you should limit voting rights to gays and property owners like in ancient Hellada and watch your country/civilisation fall apart like they did (once no voting rights males drop out of the army and the system altogether).
But go on, study the Greek Classics and the LGBT that goes with falling apart (it exists but it isn't supposed to be enforced ad a preference - you might want to try letting us heterosexual geniuses have a say (ok, I own property, so what?))
1. Should high school dropouts not be allowed to vote?
No. There are dropouts who run successful businesses and employee lots of people, There are also college grads who are freeloading societal leeches.
2. As well as mandatory military service to graduate high school?
Again, no. That is statist nonsense. The government belongs to the people, not vice-versa.
That makes no sense. School doesn't measure intelligence, some people do terrible in school but excel at work later in life. And people may drop out for many reasons like mental health or just being sick of school, that doesn't mean they can't be intelligent and never succeed with anything in life. There's a bunch of dumbasses who vote who know nothing about politics already.
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