What is your opinion on how incel violence should be dealt with? Personally I think they do fit the terrorism definition. But like the article says treating them that way may only make the problem worse. And what about the ones who are still redeemable? What should be done to prevent more incel violence?
Before it comes up, no I'm not an incel, I disagree with that world view. This question isn't for debating incel theories but for ideas on how to handle the growing threat of incel violence. I made poll options but I realize public opinion may be far more complex on this issue than just a simple poll feel free to add your opinion if you don't see something that fits your view in the poll.
Treat incels as terrorists
Crack down only on violent incels.
Find alternate solutions (watch groups, healthier support groups, etc.)
Stronger social media restrictions on incel groups or incel language
Something should be done, but I'm not sure what
Everything is fine as is
I just want to see the poll results/other
Select gender and age to cast your vote:
Please select your age
What do you think should be done to prevent incel violence?
The one thing that would change it is if our culture somehow stopped being so degenerate. The reason incels are the way they are is because they're being raised in a broken, toxic culture, and especially because they're emasculated. That's not gonna change. Nobody gives a shit about the collective health of the culture anymore and it will continue to get worse. People are stupid.
I'm reading the article now, and I'm seeing this:
"We found incels are angry because they believe the sexual revolution has made women promiscuous and manipulative. They believe feminism, the contraceptive pill and women’s involvement in politics have fuelled this promiscuity."
"These misogynistic views connect incels to other alt-right, anti-women groups like Pick Up Artists and Men’s Rights Activists, which believe feminine values have come to dominate society and men must fight back against a politically correct and misandrist culture to protect their very existence."
The incels are 100% correct here. But people only want to call them misogynists and call their beliefs ridiculous. Like I said, people are stupid and that won't change.
I said that nobody cares about the collective health of society, and really they don't give a shit about men. When they say they do, what they tend to talk about is stuff that has to do with emasculating men mainly - men rejecting traditional ideas of masculinity, being more emotional, crying more etc. The majority of men don't want that, and the things they're going against are just in their nature anyway.
Incels are created by that kind of bullshit. Men who've been emasculated are the ones who tend not to get laid because even the women who encourage that stuff don't really find them attractive at all. Then they get emotional and lash out because they've been taught to be emotional. Also, if they're honest about their feelings about their struggles, even if they don't say anything hateful about women, what do they get? Nothing but mockery and being told to shut up whining again by the same people.
I was once technically an incel. I didn't go on any forums or anything like that nor did I hate women, but I was very socially awkward and extremely shy. It was depressing to see other people dating while feeling completely invisible. The one thing that helped me eventually break out of that situation was joining the PUA community, learning game, gaining social skills and confidence from that.
But even then, those things are viewed as being bad or misogynistic because they're not politically correct. The truth about men and women isn't politically correct, the politically correct ideas are based on a load of nonsense.
These people are talking about targeting at risk individuals and helping them. Helping them with what? I've seen groups that have tried to help incels who have also tried to stop them from for example going to PUA or redpill places, and guess how many incels they actually help? Zero. It doesn't work. None of the solutions work. The people who create incels want to somehow solve the incel problem with more of the same, more emasculation and all that, while pulling them away from something that might perhaps help them as it did me. Like I said, people are stupid.
This problem will only continue to go on. None of these other solutions such as censoring them will help either. There are always ways to get around that, and if there isn't one, you just removed their place to vent their frustrations, their coping mechanism. Which will lead to more violence most likely. People always seem to have this stuff backwards. The forums and other incels don't cause the violent outburts, their frustration with their situations causes them to go to forums and to want to commit violence.
What I’m reading from your message here is that you think it’s okay for men to be angry at women for having “game” of their own sorts such as the pill, but then you go off and learn game from the pua community.
Whether I think it's okay or not is irrelevant, they are angry and emotionally unstable and there are reasons for that, as well as reasons for why they struggle.
The thing with PUA is that it's based on what works vs what doesn't work, and that's it. That's why it works. Most people can't think that way, instead they let their personal feelings and beliefs get in the way of everything. Especially for example PC/feminist beliefs.
All I'm saying is that the emasculation of modern men is what causes them to be incels in the first place, and that encouraging more emasculation - which I think is either part of your game or you believe it's a good thing at least for whatever reason - will only lead to more of them, and that that's a false solution. That's all. And because of the things I mentioned before, that's what will happen anyway. Angry incels aren't going away.
The pickup artist community has died a great deal in the last 10-15 years. It taught men to lie, cheat, abuse alcohol, and even rape, lowering the overall value of men while simultaneously selling them lies that they can turn around and score a virgin bride after they were done slaying pussy. But society became too smart for that garbage. That’s why guys like Roosh V are now batshit crazy holy rollers. He’s gotta be because he, at 50, was never able to get a wife. All he could ever do is get naive and gullible young teenagers drunk enough to go along with him to bed. All that “game” he learned and taught other men in his books are exactly what has made him completely unmarriageable and unattractive to any woman with half a brain.
I find it pathetic he’s “turned to god” in order to cope with the irreversible damage he’s done to his market value, but at least he’s never killed anyone, that we know of.
It’s too bad how much was damage has been done to men of his ilk.
It depends on who you're talking about. The PUA community has died out for many reasons.
There were good and bad. Naturally it attracted a lot of weirdos amd fuck ups, and for many of those proclaiming themselves to be experts was an easy way to make money off of naive guys. Those were really the guys who taught that stuff. Roosh included.
The good ones didn't teach any of that. They all ended up eventually getting married or moving on to other things and leaving the PUA community. That's when it really went to shit because only the weirdos were left.
I've seen you for example mention before that you like Matt Hussey, before he started doing what he does now he taught PUA. He was one of the good ones.
I’m relieved to hear that you understand that. I love Matthew Hussey. I support the teaching of men to improve themselves and how to make genuine connections with women.
"The good ones didn't teach any of that" I confess I don't know much about the PUA community except the very little I've read and seen in videos... most of which convinced me they're useless. So what are examples of the "good ones" and what do they teach?
Statistically speaking, "incels" are a tiny, fractional group of people. An incident happens with a self declared incel and suddenly there's an "incel violence problem"? I think not. I think the "incel" just falls into the same group as other "mentally disturbed" individuals ONCE they commit a violent or criminal act.
There's some bullshit floating around that if women "took care of these incels and fucked them once in a while", the world would be safer! The idea that these acts are born out of "sexual deprivation or rejection only" and they wouldn't exist if these folks got laid, were socially accepted, or popular, is without evidence.
There IS no incel problem. Many people choose to be celibate and do no violence. When they do, it's a mental health issue, and "simply" being celibate doesn't explain it all. That's like guys saying to a stuck up, bitchy girl " you need to get fucked hard", as if that will cure her of being a stuck up bitch !
I differentiate between incels and treat each one differently.
Incels that are still respectful and are actually good people still, I have zero problems with and I’ll give them advice on how to get a girl if they ask. But sadly that’s a quiet majority.
The incel pigs that advocate, support or perpetuate violence, should be destroyed. Guys with that mindset have killed people, raped people, humiliated people and jeopardize their very safety.
Teach humility, respect, and empathy, that sex isn’t a right or an entitlement, as well as better coping skills and anger management. Incels need to be humbled and learn how to respect others.
If you're not inclined to do so, let me say of the incels I know, and they're many, ALL of them are humble and respectful, most of them are empathetic, and not a single one of them believes sex is a right or an entitlement. However, these aren't the variety one encounters on the internet.
Is your default position to assume that they aren't humble, respectful, empathetic, and believe sex is a right or entitlement? How many incels do you know personally? How many do you call friends?
What are these "better coping skills" you talk about?
Many people seem to believe that, "Well, as long as they're not violent and respect women, then our work is done!" And who cares if they're not happy. My brother works with many incels (about half of whom are women). The non violent part is easy. It's finding happiness when they haven't even been hugged in several years that is a Herculean struggle.
What pray are these "better coping skills" you talk about?
Is your default position to assume that they aren't humble, respectful, empathetic, and believe sex is a right or entitlement? How many incels do you know personally? How many do you call friends?
@Bluemax I must have missed this reply. Many incels come to me as clients and they usually come from toxic backgrounds where they lack the humility and empathy needed to develop genuine connections with women. Many have an intense victim complex. Many are simply insecure and would rather forfeit than work on themselves and try to succeed with women. They don’t have an abundance mindset that is needed to get back up when they’ve been rejected.
About roughly how many incel clients have you worked with (ballpark figure... more than fifty? More than 100? I'm not asking for an exact number)
How many incels do you personally call friends? You keep talking about *male* incels. Do you not know a single female incel? Roughly half the people my brother works with in this regard are females.
Of the incel clients you work with, what percentage of success do you have with them (again, ballpark figure... more than 50%? Less than 50%? More than 25%? Less than 25?)
What kind of toxic backgrounds are we talking about here?
I’m a relationship consultant. I mostly work with women but some men do come to me too. It’s hard to say how many many I’ve helped but I’d say at least 100. I don’t do full on coaching yet but I have had male clients tell me I’ve helped them, at least half. But some have been so conditioned to get what they want on demand (by being spoiled) that they don’t appreciate the help and they get angry with me. Sometimes then I refer them to a doctor.
Many come from backgrounds of absent fathers or being spoiled by their parents. I mentor them in self awareness, mindfulness, empathy, self improvement, strategy, mindset and emotional intelligence.
Women aren’t incels because they can always get laid. Incel refers to “INvoluntary celibate,” which is an issue women don’t have.
Women in general have more interested options than men at any given time. The average woman has at least a few different men she could text right now if she wanted to have a booty call. Men have to work harder to to those options.
Greater innate respect for human life? I suppose this is passed on through parents mostly.
I have yet to see a study done about incels and their parents. I think it might be interesting.
Here's the thing. I actually know a LOT of incels personally. I literally grew up with many of them. This is because my brother has cerebral palsy, and he grew up around disabled people, many of whom are disfigured. He also counsels the disabled, and the number one topic he counsels about is dating. And I also have friends who are incels who aren't disabled.
Of those I know, NOT A SINGLE ONE is violent. NOT A SINGLE ONE believes sex is a right or an entitlement. NOT A SINGLE ONE is misogynistic (in fact, of those my brother counsels, about half are women). NOT A SINGLE ONE even remotely comes close to being a terrorist. NOT A SINGLE ONE resents women (again, about half of those my brother counsels are women)
This leads me to believe that the violent incels, the ones we read about and the ones that trumpet their hatred on the internet, are probably a minority. A very vocal minority. I'm starting to think there should be a distinction between the incels we see online, and the rest of the incels who just quietly go about their daily lives never hurting anyone.
Any rate, of the incels I know, they have good families and friends who have raised them from an early age to respect the sanctity of human life.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
“Incel” is just another label tossed around like confetti much like the labels “Nazi, sexist, homophobe etc”. Many times such labels are unwarranted and are just used to unjustly tarnish a person’s reputation. Trying to use authoritarian methods will only make incels more defiant. If you really want incels to simmer down then...
Quit vilifying men and traditional masculinity
quit marginalizing men’s issues
Just ask us men what we want from society, don’t force standards onto us
By the way, I’m not an incel. I’m just pointing out the obvious.
Train and arm the citizenry. Schools should include self-defense (as well as first-aid, disaster-preparedness, and other survival-skills) in their curriculum.
This way, if any fool dares attack the citizenry, the wrath of the masses will quickly exterminate the pest (incel, terrorist, gang-member, etc.). The criminals should be running to the police. They should never want to face the wrath of the people. That should scare any sane person from attempting to impose any non-defensive violence on any person.
Counseling. Friends and family have to start interventions. Incels are like most narcissists. They make it all about them. They seek the dark places away from society and avoid being confronted on their view of reality. But too many people engage in co-dependence, which only makes them worse and more violent.
Proper monitoring, especially in terms of social media, is probably your best bet. These types of men have a lot of deep seeded issues they like to project onto society and women... but it really comes from an overall feeling of isolation and loneliness, so most of them flock to online forums of like minded people they may not know otherwise. Just like any mental illness, it needs to be monitored and dealt with in a way that encourages therapeutic alternatives
I have never heard of "Incel Violence" and it seems out of character, as so many that I have chatted with don't give any violent indications, or make threats, but rather seem more like shamed or defeated, and not like they would really choose it, but can't seem to make anything work, with a woman, so maybe they hop on the wagon, with others? Never heard of any with VIOLENT tendencies!!
Why do you focus on "incels"? Why not focus on violent people as a whole? People become violent when they feel completely detached from society and no way to channel their anger. This is real problem.
There are plenty of sexually active people who commit acts of violence, just take a look at your local pimp.
This is something that has to countered from the beginning. Parents telling kids how to respect others. Schools teaching appropriately, but without unnecessary censorship. We can't just target that community; everyone can be friendlier, kinder, more respectful, and others will follow that lead.
1. Stop treating men so poorly, unfairly, and disrespectfully, like feminists often do: teach women that "male" is not a dirty word and that men have feelings, viewpoints, and emotions that should be considered, recognised, and respected. 2. Can it with the false entitlement: teach men that women and female bodies are not theirs for the taking.
I think you got your ideal's screwed up man. That's like saying all Muslim men are terrorists so they should be treated as such. Just because you read something that some idiot posts on the internet and post it up here as fact does not make it true. Incel's are a very small group compared to the world. You have a lot more deadlier groups and stupid Incel's. There are more muslims strapping bomb's to their bodies than there are incel attacks. So I would wonder...
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Sex bots n dolls. Brothels for it. Make it a source of entertainment that's as judged as gambling or drinking, or logically, less so, and you'll solve the "incel problem" at least 70%+ of the time. The ones still wanting an actual people to screw so badly after that better alternative comes up, then help groups or jail if they turn violent.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
The term Incel is overused today. It's used to refer to angry young men in general, which is not accurate. Society treats men poorly today and that is what needs to change. Anyone who commits violence should be dealt with per the law, but treat men as a whole with more respect and there will be fewer angry, hopeless young men who turn to violence. That's the answer to this question.
I didn't know it was either till I saw the article and while I agree its a major problem I worry that the terrorism label may be a bit extreme, but I'm willing to admit I'm wrong/hear other opinions. So I decided I would be really democratic about it and start the discussion.
Well I guess I somewhat agree. You can't just label every incel as a terrorist. That doesn't make much sense and it really isn't fair. Although I did notice that the article kinda just focused on individual cases, but didn't really present any data. Don't get me wrong, listening to the confession by the dude who drove the van into a crowd and watching the shooting in Arizona made me pretty fucking uncomfortable. And the whole incel culture is pretty fuckin' toxic. But I guess my question is just: How big of an issue is this? And is this author just trying to push some political stuff? Just things that were running through my mind while I was reading through it.
The first question... Who determines who is an incel and who isn't? Maybe are you competent enough to take the role of court, police and executioner? Sorry man, but such question with these options sounds very radicalized.
Mostly, I think the world suffers greatly from misinformation. People who mislead maliciously need to be weeded out and a lot of problems would fix themselves.
by stop treating them like they are subhuman animals beneath regular people. everyone is so dismissive of anyone they label incels that they forget they are actual people just wanting some compassion for a change
people calling it incel violence are fucked in the head. Tons of virgins out there who’d never hurt a fly in fact it is their timidness that makes it difficult to find a girl
Anybody can create a graph. Every credible study in the past 50 years shows that men commit adultery twice as often as women. Even if it's equal, you clearly blame women for being the ones who are "Godless" and leading men astray. You're whacked if you think that, or maybe you think it's their fault if a man doesn't say "no" when the opportunity arises, even if he didn't initiate it.
To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids. For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread
Ecclesiastes 7:28
while I was still searching but not finding-- I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all
John 4:16-18
Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.” The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true
2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. Every charge must be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses (TYPE CHEATING INTO PORNHUB) lets see who is cheating more men or women :)
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