What are your best ideas to police "black" people, and people, who are scared of police?

[lightbulb27]

Explanation: Some black people are easily triggered by fear of Police, control and authority. The fear and rage they feel relates back to traumas in recent history where black people were enslaved, mis treated, controlled, murdered, tortured, sold off, split up, died in fields and lacked freedom and authority to fight back. When they did, they were punished.

Do you see why some people see things differently?

History: For decades they have had to fight for their rights to rise above oppression and the reality and memory of it is alive in their hearts and society. Every confrontation, mistreatment, and death video of Police/black person is seen through this lens by those who harbor fear and reinforces the old feelings of being devalued. The result is anger and rage which is now fully engaged to fight back and confront the threat, at all costs. All the efforts by people to stop slavery, kindness, and fairness does not change the perception. Emotional wounds are strong. This is why other races are not as aflame as black people.

https://www.westernjournal.com/seattle-chop-leader-sends-ominous-warning/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2020-06-18&utm_campaign=topdaily&fbclid=IwAR28Di0CV2ehyK9Zgpr4iWEWVH1r1BHI78bi2--KuCVtuZmtLRChvfX967g

Current Day: This person is serious... do you see that? They will fight to the death because there is no other option in her perception. Massive Trauma is on the horizon if this is not resolved.

In general, the issue is a policing issue that impacts any race, but it impacts black people in a substantial way for the reasons noted above.

How can black people be policed successfully? If you are black... does having black police help reduce the fear?

Black people police black people

Social workers engaged with each arrest

Robots used to engage people

Change police uniforms and perceptions (marketing)

Something else

[yrdady]

Well... this is a touchy issue. Blacks police blacks as an idea seems challenging. Either A, we go back to a kind of segregation, white cops for whites, blacks for blacks, and what of other races? I'm in a mixed area of the city (Of Minneapolis actually), so you can't exactly separate them on a community geographical manner. You can concentrate them around yes but it won't be perfect. And the alternative- there are so many races. Who handles what? What about a mixed black/white person? And this is technically illegal to discriminate since the 60s and forced bussing era.

If they are traumatized, as much as I sound like an arsehole for saying this, it's usually the only way up in such circumstances, and that is to use reason, and true facts. Trauma is emotional. You have to use reason. That means quit - in my actually humble opinion- getting pimped by CNN and the democratic party. Not saying be conservative. I'm not completely conservative. I'm a mix. But watch the 'conservative twins' on youtube (two black twins). They are dynamic. Watch Candace Owens, if only to get another view. What did the democratic party do for you? Are you being weaponized by the establishment to create division? I know you have a hard lot collectively. As a white man I feel compassion but no shame because as an individual I never did anything to merit shame so I can't feel it, and I hate to see other men and women of any race feeling these things. Open mind for a different view. Use facts. Floyd should not have been killed but don't pretend he was a hero or something other than what he was, a man who pointed a gun at a pregnant woman's belly in a breakin who had other things on his record as well. Think about that and who you want to honor. Now policing. I hate militarized police. Yeah we are like that and it's intense and scary even for me and I'm tough. I'm glad it appears there will be change, but I don't want the baby out with the bathwater. I don't want chaos and destruction. This is why we can't have nice things.

[lightbulb27]

you sound a lot like what I think. I do watch those people and others should but there are those out here who can't stand that bunch! I think the message has to come from the African American leaders. There are very different views in black community on the situation, it may fall along political lines to some degree.

For the solution, I think simply "escalation" to like race is acceptable for black people. They are the ones traumatized, so allow them to request a black cop, train all black people via social media on their rights and responsibilities. That will improve situation a lot... not 100%. Other races are irrelevant, they are not a problem. Only provide officer if one is available. This occurs with females today requesting female cops.

It's not an insult to request another race cop, for now, and it is reality that this group of people is in a state of trauma. I'd give that, it's worth de-escalating the tensions.

Thanks for your thoughtful answer.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well everything you said was patently false and provably so. Can't blame slavery and mistreatment if every other group of people, whites included, experienced the same. You can't blame all of those things that not a single person alive today, or their parents, or their grandparents actually experienced. You can't blame those things if over seventy years ago they were doing far better, had lower crime rates, higher employment rates, higher earnings (relatively speaking), greater probability of graduating school, etc. etc. etc.

How do we police them? Simple, we put up a wall around those areas and let those who are violent and bad and all of those who refuse to acknowledge the real problem (fatherlessness and the black communities adamant refusal to take responsibility for their own actions), and keep them locked up in that region of the city were their are no police so they can all butcher each other until enough of them realize that they are in fact the problem, that they cannot blame police officers shooting them when they violently attack police officers, they cannot blame white people when 80% of all interracial violence and crime is commited by blacks against whites, can't blame racism when blacks are 150% more likely to commit hate crimes then whites. Once they do that, we can take down that wall and start policing their neighborhoods again and they will no longer have the ability to claim victimhood when a police officer is forced to do his fucking job.

Or you could just stop pandering to them, stop making excuses for them acting like pieces of shit (again, more then half of all crimes are commited by blacks. This isn't racism, its them being assholes plain and simple), force them to own their actions and then get them to stop abandoning their children or getting knocked up by thugs, and the problem will eventually fix itself.

[lightbulb27]

First paragraph was a good one. I wonder if 70 years ago they'd agree they were better... I've heard this but don't know the stats... I need to know more. No serious drugs, crime and such? So integrating them into the rest of society is implicated in the problem?
That's real information to me.

Jesus H Christ... I finally got a real answer. I actually think that 2nd paragraph is realistic and implementable. 3rd is also is correct but seems challenging to implement.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The stats are accurate. The reason why they were better is because they had intact families which they do not now. Children from fatherless homes have substantially increased rates of criminality, substance abuse, academic failure, poverty, and promiscuity (thus perpetuating the problem). This is exactly what you see in the black community and you can map the increase of these things along side the break down of the black family. It has nothing to do with integration as integration was already happening. The break down of the family is what halted the integration (despite popular claims to the contrary.).

It was caused by the welfare state. Johnson had people go out and directly speak to blacks, something he did not have done for any other group of people. However the welfare was only available if their was no man in the house and a woman was a single mother. You combine this with the "sexual revolution" and you have an increased rate of single motherhood as women became more willing to engage in casual sex and more willing to invest in relationships with unreliable men because they had a safety net that didn't exist before. This started it but the inclination towards promiscuity when fatherless for both males and females caused it to magnify. That's why you see a slight increase in these things as the children reached puberty (that's when they begin acting out and getting more criminally inclined and sexually inclined due to biological predisposition mingled with the psychological aspects of fatherlessness) in the late sixties and early seventies but by the nineties the rates sky rocket.

They went from about 30% out of wedlock birth rate to 74% currently. Crime was slightly higher in the black community in the fifties but not substantially (the same you would normally get in poorer regions), but now its through the roof.

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for the second paragraph, that wasn't a serious suggestion, it would work but logistically it would never happen and I am not comfortable leaving people to die, even if it is of their own doing. The third paragraph is the real solution and that is implementable, we acknowledge the real problem and when the people who make money off of victimhood (like Jessi Jackson (10 million dollar net worth and all he does is "civil rights advocacy") or Al Sharpton (who has a net worth of 500,000 dollars for "civil rights advocacy) or the media which makes millions off of stoaking hate and division) come in and try to act like the parasitic vultures they are we call them out we do not let them have a single fucking inch. Every time blacks try to play victim every one should just call them out and point to how black immigrants aren't having these problems, Asian immigrants are more successful then any one in this country and that this is all self inflicted. Once it stops being beneficial to play victim (they get free passes and pandered to), they will be forced to change their behavior.

[lightbulb27]

yes, Asian and indian immigrants have the ethics to grow and prosper. I think #3 logically works and is what I push for, but humans love to hold onto their beliefs and wounds. Its the hard path.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes it is, especially when their are entire industries that would oppose it (politicians, victocrats (most of which are wealthy and unaffected by the things they claim are issues), and the media). But it is the right way of doing things (the other way results in violence and death to a large degree).

[Ellie-V]

When the seeds of racism has been uprooted and destroyed, THEN we can ask this question. Baby steps.

[JimboGB]

Let us hope you don't get raped in the meantime. I'm praying for you.

[JimboGB]

Robbed or murdered, I almost forgot.

[Ellie-V]

@JimboGB dude, you are so extra 😂😂😂 but ok

[lightbulb27]

In effect, are you saying we should stop policing black people?

On a project plan that might make sense, but in practicality... it won't work.
would take a deep discussion to dig through the statement further.

[Ellie-V]

I literally never said that 😂

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yeah racism isn't an issue in our country (its actually really racist of you to say that but no one gets irony anymore).

[JimboGB]

@hellionthesagereborn until you know the crime statistics while claiming you're not willing to police 50% of the violent criminals. Of course it's racism, I'm white aren't I.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@JimboGB that's my point, in order to claim its racism and not personal actions, you have to believe that blacks are incapable of being held personally accountable for their actions not unlike children. You also have to believe that whites as a whole (but never the people who say this, the people who say this are always exempt from these generalities for some reason (wonder why)) are racist. The entire premise is racist on both sides.

[Ellie-V]

Children, children... is it that serious?

[lightbulb27]

I just don't know what you are saying Ellie... "seeds of racism" then ask how to police?
Here's another angle... the citizens are asking for... more policing!:) How...

www.youtube.com/watch

[Ellie-V]

I still meant what I said 🤷🏾‍♀️😂

[lightbulb27]

still don't know what you mean, so I learned nothing.
Is this a seed of racism as well and she should be reprimanded?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLBTOHtjiB0
It's hard to remove racism when people keep focusing on it.
Another question I have is... is it ok to discern character as a determination to differentiate people? That character may align by % with certain races, but not all. That's what I strive to do... who is that person, what are they about. Race can creep into issues quickly because it's the "easiest" answer, not the right one. So by asking people to discard the seeds of racism, we are asking them to think harder. This lady is countering racism (perceived or real) with racism (real). Most other people can't do that... blatantly.
I assume you don't support racism nor accept it, thus this lady should be called out for it, correct?

[Ellie-V]

No lesson was taught, so no need to learn anything from this exchange.
My initial statement stands. Be rested, love.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, your initial statement doesn't stand. Its may stand as a statement, but it does not stand up under scrutiny. We have no racist laws, the police are more likely to be killed by a black suspect then to kill a black suspect, 40% of all police killed are killed by blacks who make up 13% of the population, over 50% of all crime is commited by blacks despite their small population size, blacks are 150% more likely to commit hate crimes compared to whites, they commit 80% of all interracial violence and crimes, we have hiring quotas for blacks, we have admittance policies into colleges that require a white student to score the equivalent of 380 additional points on their SAT in order to be viewed EQUAL TO a black applicant, out of the 53.5 million police interactions only.001% result in deaths and out of those only 4% are considered questionable. Out of those half are whites, the other half are blacks mostly blacks shot by black officers as white officers are less likely to fire on a black suspect. In addition while blacks commit twice as many traffic violations they are also twice as likely to be let off with a warning compared to white motorists. 95% of all blacks killed are killed by other blacks.

So no, your statement doesn't stand under even the slightest scrutiny. The nation that is the only one in the world that has elected a minority man as president not once but twice, does not have an issue with racism (at least not coming from whites).

[Ellie-V]

@hellionthesagereborn no☺️ But that was a lovely read and you’ve been awesome

[Flower7]

I like the idea of using robots. But I know that's very unrealistic and also expensive.

[goaded]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzlt7IbTp6M

[lightbulb27]

@goaded Now... that was just a little AI coding "glitch", with enough deep learnign experience, it won't make those mistakes. LOL.

Could make them unarmed and first line of defense. Damage one, and it's prison time. Good grief with the behavior of some people, maybe they could talk like grandma or their mom and instill some respect.

[goaded]

Try bringing the US police into 19th century! In 1829, the first professional police force in the UK were (and still are) guided by the following 9 principles. tl;dr? Read #6, 7, 9, and all the rest - it's all sensible.

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

[lightbulb27]

#4!! good list. I honestly think that's what they are trying to do, but it blows up. Even.01% failures means chaos. Rayshard Brooks is an example. of an emotional trigger. Can argue they should have shot or not, but it's an instantaneous decision.

[goaded]

No system is perfect, that happens in the UK, too. Police shot and killed a man in north London in 2011, which led to days of rioting around the country. I happened to be there at the time, and shops not 200 yards from where I was staying were vandalised. The shooting was ruled justified, but not quickly, it took until 2014, finally upheld in 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

My feeling is that, in the UK, Brooks would have just been chased and even allowed to escape if he couldn't be caught without endangering the public, and they'd have impounded his car and gone to his place the next day.

[Freddy78361]

Here isxhowxit looks to me. Blacks fear interacting with police because they feel they are likely to get harassed.
Police harass/pay more attention to blacks because they think blacks are more likely per capita to be involved in a crime.
Blacks are more likely to be involved in a crime because of economic opportunity and home life.
Government programs and systemic racism cause the lack of economic opportunity and home life issues.

To say blacks should police blacks segregated the community. Social workers aren't trained to be police.
Uniforms aren't the answer.
People changing is the answer.

[lightbulb27]

That's the best reply I've ever seen...

[Freddy78361]

This isn't a simple fix. And it won't be fast. I won't get political other than to say that we are one community and need to help each other out.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

I always thought that black police in black neighborhoods would be part of the answer but its not without problems.

Black police complain when they are put into the worst neighborhoods because its more dangerous for them as well. They would rather work in safer neighborhoods

The cry of racism from black cops who are being assigned to black neighborhoods has also been uttered.

Black cops will be targeted and they'll be called uncle toms because they are doing their jobs. They'll be accused of helping the white government keep them down.

So you can see how this might not be a panacea. I would be curious to hear from black people on this issue

[lightbulb27]

I would suggest you posting a question as it is a valid one. I've been on this angle of "change the people", but people dont' want to change.
There is a reason black people migrate to white neighborhoods and cops want to work in less crime areas, which are primarily not black.

There are problems in the culture. But when I start with this angle, they will flip it back to "the system". human nature to not want to change or see ones own faults.

Make Black Lives Better should replace Black Lives Matter.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

Change is hard. that's why people usually try to get someone else to change instead. In reality everyone might need to change to some degree, like it or not

[TheAfrikan]

❕Am not sure about that. Since am not into USA. But the robotic stuff would be a better step. By we got hackers who can turn them into killer machines.
Am going with objective "A" though each police patrol. Should have a black or coloured cop.
Instead of placing two white cops in asingle patrol 🚔, that will cause a menace. they should be two one white one black.

That way even if a black cop 🚔 is to arrest a white person. He will be having back up from a white cops.
Simple that way the two cops are safe ad partners from attacks, As well as the public.

[lightbulb27]

Uganda, wow!! Welcome.
I like this option as well, seems one of the easiest and will help some scenarios.

But still... quite a few black cops have been killed in the line of duty this year. It's sad, but there are real criminals out there who don't respect that uniform and see it as the enemy.

[TheAfrikan]

Hmmm you are right others seem not to care about cops at all.
BT I think those who are haters need a better way of handling for sure hhh. thanks

[ChiTown33]

I like Daniel Tosh's idea. " only black people get to be cops. There'd never be a accusation of a white cop brutalizing a black man again. And if you're white and are against this then you're the racist lol. And for those white people that say " but i've always wanted to be a cop". Hey you can be a fireman. Makes sense, we're more outdoorsy anyways". Lol

[lightbulb27]

interesting. plenty of black cops are involved and have issues with black people, but just not propagated on film. as well, quite a few black cops have been killed this year.
my guess is, the argument shifts to "police vs citizens" which is really where it is at, but is clouded by additional issue of race.

[Meatunnel69]

I dont know why everyone is evokes slavery in cases of police brutality the media is trying to conflate legitimate law enforcement as 100% racist as well as Trump a racist. Dont you see it’s only for political results and virtue signaling they dont REALLY care... Sure slavery existed in America over 200 years ago but you know what slavery has existed since the dawn of man why isn't that relevant to police brutality too?

[lightbulb27]

yes, it may be for political stuff. I recall as well things going nuts under Obama and I don't think the right was pushing that. These are underlying issues in society I suspect... but will the left seize it to push trump out... definitely! They'll do anything...

The issue seems like a forrest fire... it died out long ago, but the embers are there and re-start a new fire all the time. The more I understand human behavior, the more I understand where they are coming from. People don't let go of their traumas (slavery) ... and it keeps haunting them. What you've noted is a large part of the solution, which is to take responsibility for their behavior.

I suspect there are issues in the system as well, but solve the society issues... the other problems diminish.

[RolandCuthbert]

I made a proposal called Partial Racial Segregation. People really disliked it. Probably because it was I who thought of it.

[lightbulb27]

you may get support from up high if Biden gets in?
www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../joe-biden-embraced-segregation-in-1975-claiming-it-was-a-matter-of-black-pride

www.npr.org/.../listen-biden-supported-a-constitutional-amendment-to-end-mandated-busing-in-1975

[RolandCuthbert]

Yawn. . . people keep bringing this up. Everyone was against busing back then.

I was four years old. You would have been older if you are telling the truth about your age. Why don't you remember the turmoil that busing caused with both "Blacks" and "Whites".

[lightbulb27]

I lived in it, near where Chappelle dwells. It wasn't awful, just odd with different character people showing up one year including white/black, didn't see other cultures. That's where I learned there was people like me and those who are not. Can make assumptions by anything... race, color, sex... doesn't work. Have to discern character of person, personality, upbringing.

The major issue I saw and continue to pound the drum for... I saw kids get away with crap, especially black kids. The schools were afraid of them and to discipline them. I saw black kids when they were young training to be, pimp and thief, and others who were like me.. working to some goal to get good grades for who knows what reason. I saw white kids that were "dirtball" thieves and some who were not. Parents. Without the discipline, those ensuing gangs that formed after me took down the city and it was rebuilt with taxpayer $. It went from a decent place to dwell and school to the worst in the state 20 years. It's better now, but inner city still not good due to conditions/jobs/crime. Somehow, discipline and values must be instilled in people along with who knows what else... jobs, hope, respect, love, etc.. Can make all changes you want with Police, won't help if the people are corrupt inside.

It did create some of the areas I live in now as those with the means fled the city. It's more integrated but dominant of certain cultures, namely people in IT.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah, I don't understand a single thing when you go off on rants about this. Its like your own personal experience is the only one that has existed on this planet.

That's why I don't relate personal experiences to you. You don't realize my personal experience is as valid as your own, and you simply invalidate mine and claim yours it the only true one.

You keep talking about how people can't make assumptions. Well, it is evident you really just mean we shouldn't make assumptions about "Whites". All other assumptions, negative or otherwise are just fine to make about different groups. Especially the one you are obsessed with. . ."Black" folks.

I didn't know Dave Chapelle's neighborhood was so bad. I will reach out to him and his folks to find out whether or not this was true.

Its funny how this rant has nothing to do with my question about busing. . . but go figure.

[lightbulb27]

yellow springs... I believe that's where he was living, probably good. Lot of country and farms. Dayton area, parts of had gangs and lots of shootings. Salem Mall collapsed years agoand school system rebuilt few decades ago. State pumped $ in and Bush made good $ on it I hear.

I have my view that's why I convey it, I try to others... but if they want what I have, then My area seems t work... somewhat diverse, but stable, low crime, high jobs, high character. Only takes a few bad apples to trash it. As far as I can tell, other people want what I have or think I have, which apparently was partly due to my privilege. So my view is, how to get them out of the mess they are in to something like what I have... worked for, built up.

I know little about busing other than what I experienced.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yep, I had to pull up Yellow Springs on Google. I didn't know it was a hellhole. I am just wondering how you arrived at this very specific view. It is your opinion that "Black" people want to steal from you because they think you obtained what you have through privilege?

Oh, back to busing. Well, I don't understand how you are so opinionated on it but know so little about it.

Biden was against it. So were many dems. It was an effort to force integration after Brown vs Brown. But it involved busing kids, sometimes up to an hour drive away from their homes to another school district. Many parents, "Black", "White" or other were really concerned about that. Its weird that your reading of equality is one of integration. Which is not the issue.

Chinese immigrants in my city have an entire community near the the city center. They have banks, schools, parks, etc.

But they have opportunity and access to capital, where if they can't get it from the larger society, they can at least give it to themselves.

So providing opportunity without forced integration is possible. We have done it before.

[Joe__Exotic]

No black person in America was a slave. This nonsense of them hating authority because of slavery has to stop. It’s time to be accountable for yourself and your actions in present day.

[lightbulb27]

I think you could create a political platform on that and go a long ways!

The adversary (devil if you will)... people like to hold onto their wounds, beliefs, and assumptions and they get passed down through culture, media, society.. Our large brains with memory and creativity is part of the problem. Black society, a lot of it, is stuck in the past... emotionally... broken family units and beliefs with some reality to reinforce. Any perceptions of mistreatment (like not arresting a cop very quickly who killed a guy under control, or shotgun blasting Aubery with no arrests) blows air into the embers again... and a new fire begins. And we all pay the price. Doesn't happen when Justine Damond is shot... mainly black people.

Yes take responsibility, but they can't and won't until they feel safe... which is why this is now so intense. And they won't feel safe until the system is changed. When policing people who don't obey, how that ever work? We are really stuck and paying the price for prior generations "sins" upon these people. Somehow the Irish got to a better place, maybe I need to study them.

I liken this to marriage counseling. Telling one person to "get over it and move on and take responsibility" is actually the ansewr... but man, they don't react well to that and it doesn't work. It ends up being a process to handle the emotions. If you've been around a difficult female/relationship, you know what I mean.

[Joe__Exotic]

Most of the reason they don’t feel “safe” is because of the continued brainwashing the left does to them.

[lightbulb27]

true. Its the emotionally sensitive left. some good hearted people there, but many I talk to are "off".

[Hydra6544]

People need to respect authority and be respectful and 90% of these issues would be solved.

[lightbulb27]

Agree. Bit how to achiebe that

[Hydra6544]

That is a question that I don’t know the answer too.

[Jacked_Jones]

Blacks are Scared of Police? Police also scared happy trigger black wannabe Gangster, everything has its 2 sides.

[lightbulb27]

yes and yes

[JimboGB]

Simply come out with the figures and crime statistics to expose the dishonesty of BLM.

[JimboGB]

For those scared of the police, don't commit crime easily solved.

[lightbulb27]

good thought. logic and facts works for some, a few, who aren't bought into it or emotionally sensitive already. That leaves the majority who are. Facts can help tilt the argument back to address the real problems. Then could work on the social problems underlying all the crime and trauma.

[JimboGB]

Yes, the fact many refuse to fall back on truth, data is very worrying to me. They are emotionally connected to a narrative, a narrative of division, "righteousness" they are convinced they are morally just and vitreous so any opposing views must be the opposite and evil. Conditions are being created where people are manipulated off emotion, not reasoned with using logic.

[lightbulb27]

Totally agree. It's how humans work emotionally. we hold onto our beliefs and we seek information to validate our viewpoint, rather than challenge our beliefs. can see that in the political sphere and dating/relationship domain as well.

It's a bugger...

It's the knowledge of good and evil... like the Bible says in my viewpoint, that's right on. A world of emotionally wounded. Maybe we need a pill to erase peoples memories and convince them they are someone else. That' not going over well:)...

[asshole_]

Why do we need the police, at all

Remember, police aren't good to white people too

[lightbulb27]

Without police then laws erode. Simple things like broken tailights... which are there to prevent rear end collissions are up to society to enforce, and some won't. That comes down to money and insurance rates. Riding bicycles on sidewalks which is illegal in most areas... is done because of injuries and risks. Again insurance.
Setting fire to houses is illegal, but if no enforcement for arson, then lives and cost, again insurance rates.
Human trafficking is also a crime which impacts lives. No enforcement, then how gonna protect and recover kids who are kidnapped and enslaved?

I don't understand the concept...

It all comes down to life and $. If society was well behaved and disciplined and employed, as some are, then police enforcement is minimally required and a very boring job.

[asshole_]

Look at places that have already gone without police. They're doing MUCH better

[not329446]

There is no trauma in recent history. Slaves all dead and burried years ago.

[goaded]

And yet the freed slaves were kept from participating in the expansion of the country, they, their children and grandchildren were obstructed from voting or purchasing property, they were lynched and bombed when they started to establish themselves, and they're the ones still standing for hours in long lines to vote in some states, while white areas have sufficient polling resources.

And, in the UK, the money borrowed to compensate British slave owners in 1833 was paid off by 2015. Yay!

[lightbulb27]

I like your thought in that what it says is to take responsibility for ones behavior, as each generation has a fresh start. However, as I learned about how we funcdtion emotionally and how trauma occurs, it is a "gift that keeps giving" if you will.

Problem is the beliefs and wounds are passed down through generations in various ways, teaching and media as example, and real impacts on family units and behaviors. Black peoples families were torn up and didn't get justice for many years in the prior decade. We know stable parent homes makes the biggest difference in outcomes for children, as well does resources.

They are also at fault... reinforcing slave terminology and passing on the trauma in their cultures, media. Check out Dave Chappelle's latest video for example. Or Richard Pryor. People are what they believe.

By talking about this, we ignore the plight of others, like Irish, who maybe were treated worse. The squeeky wheel gets the grease I guess.

[goaded]

And yet, every generation of black people in America has been met with a generation of racist white people. Would you belive there were once bigots who would leave nooses lying around for black people to find? Oh, wait, that was a couple of days ago.

Today, St. Patrick's day is nearly as American as apple pie. Could the difference be that you can't tell people of Irish descent on sight? And, no, no non-slave was treated worse than a slave.

[not329446]

There are pros and cons in this discussion. Slaves are dead why do so many want to dig them up. You were not there I was not there. All we have or get is a bias interpretation of biased historians.
Use today as an example. try to imagine how much of Trump's blundering bullshit will be recorded. His wall Street accomplishment is well known. What will history record for your grandchildrens children?
WWII produced holocaust survivers who believe all the world should hate Germans and hold them accountable. Bullshit! You cannot hold people accountable for crimes committed by ancestors.
Put on some big girl panties and get over it 😂

[lightbulb27]

@goaded It seems like the past never dies out... it was put away, now out of the box again. How we resolve the past pains so they don't pop up again, i do not know.
In the end, I think we all want the same thing... security, opportunity to be successful, to be respected. I have that where I live to a large extent. That needs propagated elsewhere.

Then they need to work on their communities. They need to own those polling locations.. maybe don't have enough poll workers, or machines. get them! Stop blaming someone else. Or send write in ballots. A lot of the issues I've seen with "black" people come from their community themselves, nothing to do with anyone else. Some % grow up and make it well in society and are respected and valued. Way too many are not. Find the problem within the culture, and fix that.

[goaded]

You seem to be missing (or avoiding) the point. The problem is not under their control.

You don't just get to open up a polling station like opening a grocery store, they are allocated to areas by the government, and if the government doesn't like the way your area tends to vote (in order to get a government that might represent you), you get given fewer resources, and voting becomes harder. More or less the same with schools.

[goaded]

Oh, and only a moron would hate today's Germans because of the Nazis, but that's not because of time, it's because the Germans intentionally decided not to be like that any more. You won't find symbols of their Nazi past anywhere in Germany outside a museum, where they belong. Confederate flags are everywhere, even in a state's flag.

[not329446]

I see we have different views.
Missing point? Not under their conttol?
I see activist investors donating millions of dollars to MeToo & BLM founders to stir unrest via social media. Hundreds of millions to intentionally wreak havoc. The black founders don't want to control profit. They smile all the way to the bank.

[goaded]

I see you don't believe in reality.

Show me these things you claim are happening. I applied for my Soros check years ago, and never got a penny.

[not329446]

Waiting for a Soros check is a victim of manipulation.
Soros wasn't used here ANTIFA people were here handing out ,,$20 bills and helping bail out protesters.
Opal Tometi co-founder of BLM is director of BAJI they educate and organize blacks to advocate racial issues. Baji. org
Alicia Garza and Patrice Khan are also co-founders of BLM. Blacklivesmatter. com
BLM is an organization, it's not just a movement.
Thefederalistpapers. org lists all companies giving big bucks to BLM
This is the reality I see.

[goaded]

You know, when protesters are chanting "George Soros, where's our money!", they're making fun of right wing idiots who pretend people are only there, trying to do something good for other people, becaause they're being paid, right?

https://baji.org and https://blacklivesmatter.com look a lot like charities, to me.

Why don't you post a link to where https://thefederalistpapers.org lists all companies giving big bucks to BLM? I just looked at their front page, and, well, unbiased it ain't!

[lightbulb27]

@goaded an interesting discussion and one likely best verbally to understand well. I'm getting lost.
But it is way off the topic... how to police black people when black people are in a state of fear of police and the system as they feel it treats them unjustly. The question is how to police them given the high rates of crime within predominantly black communities and the built up fear (fight/flight) reaction that we see in videos.

If can't see black people are in a state of trauma, are missing something. Trauma can be real and perceived. e. g. I went swimming and saw a shark bit a person... real trauma. I saw a person on the street with a shark shirt and went into fear... emotional issue related to trauma. It's all trauma whether it happened 100yrs ago or today on video.

[goaded]

Did you mean: "If [you] can't see black people are in a state of trauma, [you] are missing something."?

You started this off by saying "There is no trauma in recent history. Slaves all dead and burried years ago.". True enough, nobody alive today was an antebellum slave, but that wasn't the end of suffering for former slaves and their descendents, was it?

I gave an answer to the question of how to properly police people in my opinion to this question: use the principles set out in 1820's England. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

Notice that it doesn't even consider things like race, mentioning only "all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing". That's more or less what Camden, NJ did, and, although it hasn't made the area into a utopia, things have improved a lot since 2012.

"Officials noted violent crime was down by 40 percent from 2012, when the city had 67 murders in the last full year for the city force. Nonviolent crime was down by 45 percent from that year."

eu.courierpostonline.com/.../

[lightbulb27]

@goaded I meant that for the poster not329446 who stated "there is no trauma". There is a lot of trauma that was passed on and being propagated. I'll re-look at your answer. Slavery is not legal and people haven't lived it. but there are a lot of slaves. There are human trafficked people... ok that's a small % being 27 million. There are people living in their own personal slavery of the mind. That is humanity in essence... what we believe about ourselves and which is projected upon us and ourselves. There isn't an accepted physical slavery and people haven't lived what people lived 200yrs ago, in the USA. Africa, it's going on now.. another story.

[goaded]

@lightbulb27 I do apologise! I was under the mistaken impression I was talking with the opinion owner, not the asker as well, sorry. Neither get automatically tagged when you write a response, I'll try to be more careful in future.

[not329446]

For family freinds and relatives I see trauma
In others I see a lot of manipulation and confusion. Look at what you said about waiting for a Soros check. Protesters chanting where's our money. This is being manipulated. Protesters should be asking BLM where their money is. Soros gave 33 million to BLM. Protesters are being played like a fine tuned fiddle.
I understand protesters have legitimate claims but they don't seem to see what investors are doing. Investors don't donate big bucks for nothing. Only time will tell how this plays out.

[goaded]

@not329446 You really can't comprehend that it's a joke at your expense, can you? Besides, that $33m would be a dollar or two per supporter (and I'd still like to see that list of donors to BLM, so I can buy stuff from them).

Incidentally, in the interest of accuracy, a CORRECTION: The "Noose" turns out to have been there as a door handle since well before Bubba Wallace was assigned the garage, according to the FBI.

I *know* you won't ever see someone correcting themselves about the lie that NASCAR announced it was a "serpentine belt"; that's because it's propaganda.

[not329446]

List of donars is depressing, mostly Democrats. Donations fail to align with the image they project in media.

[goaded]

Why would it be a surprise if Democrats support BLM?

[lightbulb27]

@goaded politics is an odd thing. the dividing line seems to be responsibility (and suffering if don't work hard) vs social aid (entrapment).

[goaded]

Responsibility is all very well if you have the chance to change things, it's just a cruel joke if you can't. Like setting someone adrift in a small boat in the middle of an ocean, and saying it's their responsibility to provide food and water for their family.

A lot of countries have chosen a different trade-off, where people get unemployment benefits, as long as they're looking for a job, and everybody has health care. That frees people to take chances on starting a business without jeopardising the lives of their families.

[lightbulb27]

@goaded that is better... once down, it is hard to get to somplace better. and those without family support have it hard, only the strongest make it out, if lucky.

[OddBeMe]

Hold cops financially liable like we do surgeons and people with cars.

[lightbulb27]

interesting. not sure. surgeons are not under threat other than $. cops are under risk of being killed. It's a different level.
This would turn into $ by way of insurance... maybe... it might make them think different? I'd like to hear cops take on that.

[OddBeMe]

People die in both cases.

[Anonymous]

Don't break the law.
Listen to the police when they ask you to do something.
Don't resist.
Be polite with them.
Oh, Did I say "Don't break the law?"

[_SOARER]

Black people can finally start building wakanda if only racist cops would leave their neighborhoods 😤

[lightbulb27]

you lost me...

[not329446]

What will people built when cops are gone and street gangs take over.

[lightbulb27]

@not329446 we can visit Baltimore to find out

[Anonymous]

Have the cops dress and act like thugs and gang members, then they can feel like they are with their like kind. More fuckin liberal white bull shit.

[OfDeath]

I would be extremely surprised if this pertains to all black people. For the ones it does pertain to, I would suggest psychotherapy.

[lightbulb27]

Agree, I noted not all, some portion. It would relate to their training and emotions. The problem is trauma in life and history and would thread through other cultures and people. But black people got the brunt of it.

[stuntbrain]

Here's a crazy thought, everyone should be equally held to the same standards of behavior

[stuntbrain]

I watched a cop break my friend's nose with his fist because he thought my buddy was being smart with him. Black people don't own police brutality

[lightbulb27]

Totally agree, I tried to caveat that. Realize what you are suggesting is to emotionally reprogram the majority of black people and "recondition" them or convince them they are wrong. not an easy path.

[stuntbrain]

The goal isn't to convince black people that they're wrong so much as that they aren't alone

[lightbulb27]

ah yes, and that message has gotten to some...

[stuntbrain]

The truth is that those in power will tend to abuse that position regardless of who they victimize

[goaded]

"5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

[reptocarl2]

Deport blacks to Liberia

[lightbulb27]

that won't work.. nice try.