It's called the Uyghur genocide and is an ongoing series of human rights abuses perpetrated by the Chinese government against their people and other ethnic and religious minorities in and around the Xinjiang Uyghur Region of China. Since 2014, the Chinese government, under Xi Jinping, has pursued policies leading to more than one million Muslims (the majority of them Uyghurs) being held in secretive internment camps without any legal process in what has become the largest-scale detention of ethnic and religious minorities since the Holocaust.
Yes I am aware of that and unfortunately I'm not surprised. China is a communist nation and they have zero respect for human rights. Perhaps, many people don't know about this because the Chinese government hides everything that happens in their country. The Uygyur people needs to be helped, but since they're Chinese no one can't help them.
As for being white, you do know that there are Muslims who are white, right? As for you being straight, I don't understand what this has to do with being aware of a genocide.
people are trying to attack me for being a muslim since i've been defending them in this question (check out a few of my replies to peopel here) but im not--as if thats something to be ashamed of. It isn't but i want my haters (blatant racists) to understand that im not one of those typical white straight racists like they are.
It's amazing how everyone is pissed off about how everyone gets so worked up over the distant and nominal impact of American slavery from 200 years back, while ignoring the fact that we still do trade with China, where we import products from their country that were created, in part, by slave labor, while they simultaneously sustain a genocide against religious groups they dislike. The state of our politics is so laughable, really. You people want to condemn your neighbors in the modern day for their implicit biases against black people, and yet you still go out and purchase your iPhone's made in an autocratic, genocidal country, with cobalt that was collected by African slave children. Just stop, guys. You don't get to role play as the social justice warrior when you are a benefactor of the worst social injustices in modern history.
I want you to imagine this hypothetical scenario playing out:
You and I go back to the 1700's to a cotton plantation. We step out of the time machine and I - representing the prototypical modern day liberal - go up to a group of slaves and say "I am so against what is happening to you! It is terrible! Your human rights are so important to me!" Then afterwards, before I leave I say to them "oh by the way, pick more cotton so I can buy clothing from the retailer across the street for a cheap price. Thanks, fellas!"
Would you say that I am being a good person, or that I care about the slaves in this hypothetical scenario?
That is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, but no Nation will stand up to China, and send troops there to stop it! HORRIBLE, but REALITY!! Just like if China chose to take Taiwan, by force: would any Nation, or Coalition of Nations go to war with China? I think not. They have Nuclear Weapons, and who knows what else? How many MILLIONS, in their standing army, and reserve? Taiwan has nearly NOTHING, for resources to fight about; the same with these Muslims, in China. No resources + no money = NOBODY CARES! Sad, but TRUE.
Don't forget the forced remarriages to the wives of imprisoned men, to better destroy standing cultural institutions and make them "proper Chinese" people!
In any state where The Party becomes all-powerful, crackdowns immediately begin on those who acknowledge any higher authority. "You don't need God/Mazda/Jesus/Allah any more, you have the Emperor/Fuhrer/Supreme Leader now". It's one of the first major alarm bells of totalitarianism, and the people of the world never fail to ignore it.
Yeah they do it to all religious people over there. They don't like religion so this is how they solve the problem of religion. They also do it to gay people for some reason. The hypocritical thing is they hate religion for it's views yet they follow one's that religions used to heavy follow which was gay people = sinners. Just like communism with it been pretty anti religious and conservative it yet keeps tons of a lot of the bad aspects of those and encouraged views by those.
It's hating something to only do the exact same thing that thing would do. We hate religion cause it can cause a fascist cult so... what we gonna do about it, how about create a fascist group that works a lot like a cult just without a deity to worship.
Yep, been happening for a long time, prior to the muslims it was the Falon gon practitioners who where being harvested for organs for china's medical tourism industry. After the mulsims are all dead it will likely be some one else because for their system to work their has to be an enemy for them to hate. But don't worry Joe Biden said he was aware of the situation and wasn't going to do or say anything about it so we have that going for us. Its fucked up.
I don't really engage in politics too much, but yeah, I've heard of this before.
I love how topics like this expose how bigoted some people truly are, because apparently anyone who called themselves a Muslim is automatically a bad person, out to get you or is oppressed, it's a shame, but nothing new it seems.
Some say it's re-education, as opposed to them being killed, but it's still bad anyway, it's just hard to know what information to trust, as some information can make things appear more or less worse than the actual reality.
Also, I don't even believe in religion anymore, but no, not all Muslim women are 'oppressed'. I were raised a Muslim and grew up around them, still living with my Muslim family, who are aware of my religious situation and I'm not dead, nor have I been threatened with death. Not all Muslims have exactly the same beliefs either and no one in my family is 'oppressed', it's just an ignorant assumption that people have, because they like to pick on groups of people, because they've heard a bad thing or two about them or had a bad experience with a small group of individuals they've met.
Yes but actually in china there are 3 genocides going on right now. Can't forget about the Falun Gong and anti-statist Christian groups as well. The day HK joined the Mainland the CCP unleashed the Triads to beat people into submission. China also harvests organs. And for women looking to get wigs or weaves I would advise them to stay away from those made in China because they could have come from a woman they murdered for her hair and organs. Yep you read that right.
This is one of the worst things to be happening in the 21st century. But it is not being broadcast by the American and many European Mainstream media. Mostly due to the CCP having a hand in said media. It is horrible and I try to get the news out as often as I can.
Indeed. One more reason that Disney's remake of Mulan came off as completely tone-deaf. THANKING the concentration camps! Insane! (Making her a magic Mary-Sue didn't help the movie either.)
When I want Chinese cinema, I watch Snow Girl and the Dark Crystal. Yeah, the hero is only half-successful, and has to fish for his girlfriend for thousands of years in Hell to redeem her before they can ascend to Heaven; but it's still a better movie than Mulan. And it's actually Chinese!
Yes, I am aware. And yes, my pity is somewhat limited since Muslims are doing the same thing in many muslim majority countries. I despise both. China and said countries.
Most muslim countries don't have that much non-muslim population left anymore, but several African (with Egypt being the most prominent) show clearly the amount of attacks of disbelievers - usually on christians. Several south-east Asian countries are creating laws that effectively render non-muslims second class citizen (which is how it always starts before it turns into a genocide).
And multiple muslims in Europe have clearly stated their aim in that regards. Not to mention that there are clear statements in the islamic religious scriptures on how to treat non-muslims - and that is in the very least unfavourable.
Now, I could find you all those sources abuot how non-muslims are treated badly in muslim countries, but only if you are actually listening and considering that your own kin can also do massive wrongdoings. If not, I will not waste my time.
I mean you make very generic statements, “most Muslim countries don’t have that much of a non-Muslim population” well neither do non-Muslim countries- within the whole of Europe the Muslim population is approximately 5% that’s a small minority. In Africa I don’t dispute that there’s extremists attacking non-Muslims, but I love the clear double standard of not mentioning Christian terror in Africa such as the Lord’s Resistance Army, and anti-balaka who also attack non-believers.
Can you give me examples of the South-East Asian countries creating laws against non-Muslims? I don’t dispute that some will, but again you prove your double standard mindset, for example, India in South Asia has created anti-Muslim laws too, and in fact, Christian minorities in India also get treated badly- yet because India isn’t a Muslim country- you don’t bring that up.
Please, I’m a European Muslim myself- so tell me what are our aims in Europe?
And can you provide me the Islamic scripture which you believe states to treat non-believers badly?
I mean let’s not get it twisted, I don’t believe Muslim countries are perfect and treat minorities with absolute fairness, just like non-Muslim countries aren’t perfect and don’t treat minorities with absolute fairness.
But you made the bold statement of: “I believe Muslims are doing the same thing in many majority Muslim countries”
Now that’s a pretty bold statement because what you are saying is in majority Muslim countries, non-Muslims are being put in concentration camps, raped, tortured, being forced to do things against their religion, and being mass killed. Now show me these concentration camps in Muslim countries.
If you want to talk about the unfair treatment of non-Muslims in Muslim countries, I’m with you all day long but I think it’s extremely hyperbolic to say that non-Muslim countries are doing the same thing as China is to the Uyghurs in China.
Oh and when you provide me evidence with Islam don’t say “the Quran says blah blah blah” please provide me with the specific scripture or reference to a particular verse.
@Still-alive Oh yes, I’m 100% aware of what Saudi is doing to Yemen and it makes me feel even more outraged as a Muslim because Muslims should know better, our religion teaches us better than this- our religion teaches us not to oppress anybody especially our own Muslim brothers and sisters- yet of course Saudi leadership is corrupt, and therefore turning a blind eye to those religious teachings.
To be honest, the land of Mecca is holy but the Saudi government is not Islamic in the slightest. They’re Muslims by name but clearly not by practice.
“most Muslim countries don’t have that much of a non-Muslim population” well neither do non-Muslim countries The difference is that the muslim population in western countries is increasing. Christian population in middle-eastern countries is decreasing. Muslims are allowed to build mosques in the west. Christians building churches in muslim countries? Yeah, that usually doesn't end well. So don't cherry pick.
"but I love the clear double standard of not mentioning Christian terror in Africa such as the Lord’s Resistance Army, and anti-balaka who also attack non-believers." It is alwas a _but_, isn't it? Can't you just admit it's happening and it's wrong. Period. No, you need to point fingers to someone else also doing bad things, because two bad things make it somehow better? No, it doesn't. It's childish behaviour of "he was mean to me, so I can be mean to him". That's it.
"Send me your sources, please." Just to give a couple of examples. I haven't saved everything so I had to search for what I remembered from the top of my mind.
"for example, India in South Asia has created anti-Muslim laws too, and in fact, Christian minorities in India also get treated badly- yet because India isn’t a Muslim country- you don’t bring that up." Again the childish: "Look what other people are doing wrong" Why would I bring it up in a topic about China and Islam? How is it relevant? You are just trying to relativize the wrongdoings of muslim. Again, why not just say: "Yes, this is a major problem. Period" Because deep down you don't want to admit that a lot of shit things are done by muslims and the bad reputation islam has doesn't come out of thin air.
"Please, I’m a European Muslim myself- so tell me what are our aims in Europe?" Depends on who you ask. Polls have shown that more than half of european muslims say they value islamic laws over their national laws. How is that supposed to work? And why do we not see similar statistics from other minority religions in Europe?
"And can you provide me the Islamic scripture which you believe states to treat non-believers badly?" You know, I've read the entire Quran. Pickthall translation to be exact - which is widely regarded as one of the most accurate ones. I made sure to research prior that I get the most accurate translation.
You pretty much just need to look at Surah 9. Surah 9 is the last actual Surah in the Quran - minus Surah 110 which is essentially just an outra. Due to the quranic interpretation - which is widely accepted by almost all islamic scholars - that chronologically later Surahs take precedence (abrogation / naskh). 9:29 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture and believe not in God nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which God has forbidden by His Messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low"
Though in the end the entire Surah 9 is essentially taking a shit on non-believers.
And by the way. Unlike Islam and Judaism, Christianity doesn't have a derogatory term for non-believers (Gentile / Kafir). That in itself is quite telling.
"just like non-Muslim countries aren’t perfect and don’t treat minorities with absolute fairness." The difference is that most western countries have equality infront of the law which includes absolute religious freedom. That is simply not the case in most muslim countries. You are again just trying to relativize matters to not have muslim countries look too bad instead of just admitting "secularism hasn't reached the same level of progress in muslim countries as it has in the west".
@Montano_Lady I'm not a zealot. I'm a Muslim. And why shouldn't I debate people who criticize Islam? I believe in Islam, I try to follow Islam to the best of my ability so when I see somebody making claims about Islam which are untrue of course I am going to defend my religion! Freedom of speech. no?
And please don't twist things. I specifically stated that the killing of the French teacher was haram (wrong by Islam) and I'm writing my response to the dude with time, just because the video he cited covered a lot of topics in Islam that I would like to debunk, and I've been double-checking my knowledge with people who are Islamically qualified so I don't say anything wrong.
As for the FakeName123 dude, since I have nothing better to do tonight, and it won't take long to write him my response as I won't need to double-check my knowledge with anyone for this, he will get a response shortly.
If you have a problem with me defending my religion what I believe, don't read my replies then, it's that simple.
@SpiderManFan2002 it’s fine if YOU practice Islam but you have no business trying to get everyone else to believe the same as YOU. Majority of people in the world do not like Islam and for good reason. Doesn’t matter what your personal interpretation is the association of Islam to most people in the world is overwhelmingly bad. And for good reason. Multiple terrible things have happened in the name of Islam, doesn’t matter if it’s Quran based or not the damage is already done. If you don’t like it you don’t have to read what they post the same advice could be said to you.
At least compared to America and Islam China is not trying to spread any kind of ideology around the world and keeps its actions largely to its own country.
Okay, so since you bring up Christians building Churches in Muslim countries and since you so specifically talk about the Middle East, let's look at each Middle Eastern Muslim majority country today, and let's see if Christians in each Middle Eastern country are really stopped from practicing their faith, particularly building Churches as you brought that up. Note that I'm only going look at a few Middle Eastern Countries because I simply don't have the time to be going through each one by one that'd take forever.
Bahrain Okay so in Bahrain Christians make up approximately 14.5% of the population. Churches in Bahrain include: Sacred Heart Church, Manama Sacred Heart Church St. Mary's Orthodox Church St. Peter's Jacobite Syrian The Mar Thoma Church & St. Paul's Marthoma Church Saar Fellowship IPC Bahrain. Indian Pentecostal Church of God IPC SHALOM Bahrain. House of Praise Community Church St. Christopher's Cathedral - Anglican The National Evangelical Church The Father's House AG Church The Bahrain Malayalee Church of South India
Egypt Egypt also has Churches: The “Cave Church” - Monastery of St. Simon the Tanner St. Catherine’s Monastery Wadi Natrun Monasteries The Heavenly Cathedral The “Hanging Church” - Coptic Church of St. Virgin Mary Saint Mark’s Coptic Orthodox Cathedral St. Anthony’s Monastery Church of St. George (Mar Girgis) Saints Sergius and Bacchus Church (Abu Serga)
Iran Armenian Apostolic Church of Iran Assyrian Church of the East of Iran Catholic Church of Iran Chaldean Catholic Church of Iran Armenian Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church Presbyterian, including the Assyrian Evangelical Church Pentecostal, including the Assyrian Pentecostal Church Jama'at-e Rabbani (the Iranian Assemblies of God churches) and the Anglican Diocese of Iran.
Syria (These are Cathedrals) Cathedral of St. Francis of Assisi St. Elias Maronite Cathedral Cathedral of Our Lady of the Assumption Cathedral Our Lady of Pity St. Joseph's Cathedral Greek-Melkite Cathedral of the Virgin Mary Greek-Melkite Patriarcha l Cathedral of the Dormition of Our Lady, Damascus Cathedral of Our Lady of Dormition Maronite Cathedral Syriac Catholic Cathedral of Saint Paul Church of the Queen of the Universe Cathedral of the Holy Spirit Greek-Melkite Cathedral of Our Lady of Peace Cathedral of Our Lady of Latakia Cathedral of Our Lady of the Annunciation
Those are just five countries that I've listed. So this notation you have of "building churches in Muslim countries won't go so well" is rather false, because many Muslim countries quite clearly allow Churches.
"It's always a __but__ isn't it? Can't you just admit it's happening and it's wrong, Period. No need to point fingers at someone else doing bad things, because two bad things somehow make it better? No, it doesn't. It's childish behaviour of "he was mean to me, so I was mean to him" That's it."
Okay so firstly, where did I say it wasn't happening? I actually said "I don't dispute there's extremists attacking non-Muslims." I do admit is happening, and I wholeheartedly condemn it, and I'm not using Christian extremism as a justification for Muslim extremism, extremism is wrong full stop no matter where it comes from. Nor did I ever say two bad things make it better.
You said: "but several African nations show clearly the amount of attacks on disbelievers - usually on Christians." My problem is, if you're going to talk about religious extremists in Africa, please have some consistency. If I was to read your comment with no knowledge of Africa whatsoever, I'd assume Muslim extremists in Africa are attacking many non-believers especially Christians. If you're going to talk about Africa and religious extremists, then have some consistency and mention the Christian extremists too. That's my point. Because you make it seem like extremism in Africa is solely a Muslim issue, when that is clearly not the case. Extremist Muslims exist attacking non-Muslims, extremist Christians exist attacking non-Christians both are wrong because extremism is wrong in all forms regardless of which group it comes from.
And actually when you say: "Can't you just admit it's happening and it's wrong, Period. No need to point fingers at someone else doing bad things, because two bad things somehow make it better? No, it doesn't. It's childish behaviour of "he was mean to me, so I was mean to him" That's it."
You're exposing your own hypocrisy. Why? What did your initial opinion say? "Yes, I am aware. My pity is somewhat limited since Muslims are doing the same in many Muslim majority countries." So you're aware of what is happening to the Uyghur Muslims but instead of admitting it is wrong, period (as you told me to do), you go and point fingers at Muslim countries because you believe Muslims are doing the same in many Muslim majority countries. Now I'm going to ask you, because two bad things somehow make it better? Isn't this the childish behaviour of "he was mean to me, so I was mean to him?" Or does this not apply now it's Muslims being persecuted?
Okay thank you for sending sources, I understand your sources are limited- I just wanted to see where you were getting your information from. Like I said, I don't dispute that Christians get discriminated against in majority Muslim countries, and as a Muslim I condemn that 100%, wrong is wrong I don't care who does it.
In the West, Muslims don't have complete freedom either. I'm not saying that justifies the oppression of Christians in Muslim majority countries but please don't paint this picture of "Christians are completely persecuted in Muslim majority countries, but in Western countries Muslims can do whatever they want!" Because that's very far from the truth. The niqab is banned in a number of Western countries. France has banned burkinis, halal meat and kosher, hijabs in schools, public workers such as teachers wearing the hijab and now they're considering banning the hijab in university. A Muslim NGO head was raided in France without any explanation from the authorities, he was accused of 'condoning terrorism' in a deleted tweet- a debatable tweet is not an excuse to raid somebody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMz7H6u2MZ0
I'll say it again, Muslim oppression in Europe does not justify oppression of Christians in the Middle East. That's not what I'm trying to say here. What I am trying to say, is many love to paint the picture of: "Muslim countries give Christians no rights and oppress them all, and in Europe and the West Muslims have full freedom to do what they want, they're not oppressed here, nobody says anything to them!" When quite clearly, that's not the case. There are Christians who get oppressed in the Middle East and Muslim majority countries which is wrong because oppressing someone because of their religion is wrong, and there are also Christians in the Middle East and Muslim majority countries who are not oppressed in the sense that, they can live alongside Muslims and practice their religion. Is everything equal? Nope. There's still plenty of work to do in terms of equality and fairness but to insinuate that Muslim countries persecute their entire Christian populations in the way that China persecutes the Uyghur Muslims- is a big stretch. And in Europe there are Muslims who get oppressed which is wrong because oppressing somebody for their religion is wrong, and there are also Muslims who are not oppressed in the sense that we can practice our religion living alongside non-Muslims. Is everything equal? Nope. In Europe, there's also plenty of work to do in terms of equality also.
"Again the childish "look at what other people are doing wrong!" Why would I bring that up in a topic about China and Islam? How is it relevant? You are just trying to relavatize the wrongdoings of Muslims, again, why not just say 'Yes, this is a major problem- period.' Because deep down you don't want to admit that the a lot of the sh** things done by Muslims and the bad reputation Islam has does not come out of thin air."
Again, you're exposing your own hypocrisy because if that's your logic why can't you just say about the Uyghur Muslims: "Yes, this is a major problem- period." Rather than saying your sympathy is limited because "look at what Muslims are doing wrong!" I've said it countless times and I'll say it again, I acknowledge the wrongdoings of Muslims and as a Muslim I fully condemn those wrongs. The reason why I brought up India is because you're discussing countries in South-East Asia making laws against non-Muslims again, if I were to read your replies with a blank mind- I'd assume that it's only Muslims discriminating against non-Muslims. However, that is clearly not the case. I'm not asking you to forget the wrongdoings of Muslims by mentioning India, moreover, what I'm asking you- is to show consistency in your arguments- if you're going to call out Muslims in Asia for discriminating against non-Muslim and especially if you're focus in Christian oppression, then also highlight that non-Muslim countries also oppress Muslims and non-Muslims too. Talk about both.
"Depends on who you ask. Polls show more than half of European Muslims value Islamic laws over their national laws. And why do we not see similar stats from other religious minorities in Europe?"
You seem sincere, so I'm going to trust you on this one, but if you do have the study could you please reference it just so I can read it too? If you don't that's fine, I believe you're sincere and I take your word for it.
Firstly it's important to note how is "value" defined in the study? Does it mean would they let Islamic law override European law? Or does it mean they simply believe Islamic law is better than European law? It's important to ask how is "law" defined in the study too? Does it mean law as in Shariah Law? Or does it simply mean Islamic religious rulings?
As a Muslim my Islamic beliefs come first. The fact I am Muslim, comes first. And do you want to know what Islam teaches Muslims about obeying the law:
"Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “It is necessary upon a Muslim to listen to and obey the ruler, as long as one is not ordered to carry out a sin. If he is commanded to commit a sin, then there is no adherence and obedience.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2796 & Sunan Tirmidhi)"
So even if Muslims prefer Islamic law over European law, as long as European law does not stop us from practicing our religion- we should abide by it. That's an Islamic value within itself.
And actually, I can't speak for the whole of Europe but I do know there is an Orthodox Jewish community in London, who have their own ambulances, their own police, their own hospitals, men and women walk on separate sides of the road- in liberal London. I don't believe this is wrong, because the Orthodox Jewish community are just practicing their religion which I respect, but there are other religious minorities who quite clearly prefer their religious rulings too. And when it comes to arguments about integration, the Orthodox Jewish community are not at all met with the same kind of passion as the Muslim community are, so again, if people are going to come at the Muslim community, I'd like to see some consistency.
"You know, I've read the entire Quran. Pickthall translation to be exact- which is widely regarded as one of the most accurate ones" Ah that's good at least. Most people who dislike Muslims haven't even bothered picking up a Quran so, it's good you'll at least have some knowledge. And indeed the Pickthall version is quite accurate, I actually have a copy of that translation on my top-shelf. I think a better translation for non-Muslims to read however, would be, "The Clear Quran translated by Dr. Mustafa Khattab" just because that was a version translated much more recently so it's more in line with the kind of language we use today, also he explains a lot about context with particular verses in this translation which I think is vital.
Okay so you mention Surah 9. I had this feeling you would do that because I've had this conversation a million times before with non-Muslims. It's important to understand what Surah 9 (titled The Repentance) is about. Surah 9 begins with the termination of a peace treaty which was violated by the Pagans. It's also important to note, that in this chapter the Christian Byzantine Empire had begun to move against the growing Muslim power, so Surah 9 also refers to a greater war to come and instructions regarding that. And that's what it actually says about Surah 9 in my Pickthall translation. Moreover, in Islam there are two types of disbelievers: combatants, and non-combatants. Combatants fight against you and try to kill you because of your religion, whereas non-combatants let you live peacefully alongside them practicing your religion. Surah 9 is referring to the combatant disbelievers instructing Muslims on how to defend themselves against combatant disbelievers. And, you reference 9:29? I'm not at all surprised lol.
In regards to 9:29 it's important to understand that the Quran has two types of verses. The first type being general verses that discuss belief in God, good manners, and acts of worship. The second type of verses are specific verses which were revealed for specific situations. Verse 9:29 was a specific verse, revealed for a specific situation. Like I stated previously this chapter came at a time where the pagan Arabs and their allies had continually broken peace treaties that they signed with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Muslims had to fight for their survival and their newly established state of Medina. So verse 9:29 is *not* a general verse that refers to belief in God, good manners and acts of worship. Instead verse 9:29 discusses dealing with those who violated the peace treaties and attacked the Muslims. Offenders were fought, unless they surrendered and if those who violated the peace treaties and attacked the Muslims did not accept Islam, they would have to pay the Jizya tax.
And I'm sorry not sorry, but in what way is Surah 110 an 'outra'? What do you even mean by 'outra?'
So no, the verse you cite is not 'taking a s***' on the disbelievers moreover, it is referring to a specific set of disbelievers who broke multiple peace treaties and attacked the Muslims- it's not an instruction on how we must treat every disbeliever.
And referring to your claim about the word 'kafir' it is in no way derogatory, it simply just means "disbeliever." If I am honest, I don't know about the term "gentile" in Judaism, but I'm not going to assume it is derogatory, instead I'll ask a Jewish person who practices Judaism- because given your lack of knowledge about Islam, I wouldn't trust your knowledge on Judaism either.
If your argument is 'but people use 'kafir' in a derogatory way' well, I've seen Christians use 'disbeliever' in a derogatory way too.
Finally lol, about your comment on Western countries having 'equality.' Firstly, there's legislation in some Western countries which just outright prevents Muslim women from practicing to the extent they want- by banning the niqab. Secondly, just because we have legislation mandating equality, it does not necessarily mean that legislation is carried out as there are plenty of Muslim hate crimes that happen in the West too. Arguably certain countries in the West are definitely more tolerable of religious minorities, than a number of Muslim countries are unfortunately, that said, zero countries in the world mandate the niqab upon non-Muslim women by legislation, whereas a number of Western countries prevent Muslim women from wearing from wearing the Niqab due to certain legislation being passed. So I'm not saying the West is terrible, or that Muslim countries are terrible, I just think both do need to make progress in terms of accepting religious minorities.
@Montano_lady I'm not trying to get everyone else to believe the same as me, I don't believe in trying to convert anybody. And I'm not citing my 'personal interpretation' I'm citing what has been interpreted by scholars who have studied Islam at degree level, and translators of the Quran.
Terrible things also happen in the name of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism- the damage is already done in those cases too, that doesn't mean those religions are responsible for the violence caused in the name of them does it? For example, the KKK use Christianity as a justification for white supremacy. Does this mean Christianity is responsible for white supremacy? No! And that's how Islam isn't responsible for the terrible things done in the name of Islam.
That's true, but at the end of the day- if I see someone spreading misinformation about my religion, I'm going to correct them- that's not me trying to "make people believe" in Islam, it's simply me saying- "This is what scholars and translators of the Quran say... Are you seriously telling me you know Islam better than people who have studied it at degree level?"
@SpiderManFan2002 you are so full of shit. A Muslim could commit ten atrocities in the name of Islam and all you have to say is “that’s not Islam” and everything is fine right? You care more about protecting Islam than you are about protecting peace and human rights in this world. It’s really quite disgusting. I heard about Pakistan being a backwards strict Sunni country but I didn’t know even their teenagers could be this indoctrinated and blind.
@Montano_lady Just like lots of lynching of black people happened in the name of Christianity yet if someone tried to tell me Christianity equated to white supremacy and I had to knowledge to prove them wrong I would.
Where did I say everything was fine? If anything proving it isn’t Islam helps because you’re disproving extremist narratives you on the other hand are enabling them!
And lol the keyword “you heard”😂😂How many people do you actually know who live in Pak? And I’m actually born in England as @Still-alive said to you, I think somebody is projectingggg
So rich you talking about human rights too, when you deny the genocide occurring in China
@SpiderManFan2002 see all you do is deflect blame and say “well X also did something bad so Islam is free of blame!” You don’t care about peace or righteousness at all all you care about is protecting your childhood beliefs. Disgusting. I used to be that way too with Christianity but then I grew up! Yes I am still a Christian but I no longer care if people attack Christianity because I don’t think it’s something the rest of society has to accept. Just like any religion Wicca, Scientology, Mormonism they all have critics! Same with Christianity and Islam!
Also I actually lived with a Pakistani man in his house for one year in San Francisco. It was old and filled with rats! Of course he was a nice man so that’s fine but his English was poor and his house disgusting.
As for what China is doing I definitely don’t think it’s right but it’s technically wrong to call it a genocide because it is not systematic extermination but rather systematic internment. Otherwise we can call the internment of Japanese a genocide too but that would be terminologically incorrect.
Eh, yes Islam is free of blame as Islam does not preach what terrorists do. Are Muslims free of blame? Absolutely not.
And lol😂😂Islam isn’t my childhood belief during childhood I understood very little about Islam about😂😂I do care about peace. And because I care about peace, I’m refuting extremist arguments, that use Islam as a justification to hurt innocent people- so they cannot use Islam as a justification to hurt innocent people and in fact, if they see what Islam really teaches, and genuinely want to please God chances are they’ll start doing good in this world. Staying silent and adhering to the narrative that Islam is at fault here, actually legitimatizes the extremists because you’re telling them they are right, and that’s wrong because they are wrong. No major world religion preaches terrorism. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, not Buddhism, not Hinduism, not Sikhism- no major world.
Ah right you lived with one Pak and he had a dirty house and spoke poor English?😂😂And?😂😂
It’s a genocide sweetie, someone’s just a little butt hurt and projecting onto everyone else like they’re a projector at a movie theatre😂😂😂😂😂
@SpiderManFan2002 oh yeah where are your sources? Just because China is a country you may not like doesn’t mean it’s doing everything terrible that you can think of. A genocide is systematic killing of a people group and that is not shown to happen with Uighur. Of course persecution I’ll admit is definitely going on because the goal is to squish out Islam not squish out Uighur. Just different word choice is what I would use is all
@Montano_lady Where did I say I don’t like China? I have no problem with China as in the country itself, they have their culture which like anything different is interesting, Chinese food is dope, like in any community there’s good and bad in the Chinese community- but what I have a problem with is the killing of the Uyghur people for simply being Muslim and you admitted yourself there’s persecution going on, and bingo! There we have it, no wonder you’re so irritated with me speaking about Islam because you want to get rid of it! For what reason? How much do you actually know about Islam for you to come to that conclusion? I already know it’s not much at all lol.
@SpiderManFan2002 well persecution is different from genocide but I understand both are not good. I am not a fan of Sunni Islam but it has a right to exist just like anything else. Certain governments just don’t want it in their backyard I guess. It’s just a question of being tolerant vs being intolerant I suppose then.
Yes, indeed persecution is not good. I’m personally not a fan of Atheism in the sense that I disagree with it, but you don’t see me whining when Atheists put forward their arguments nor do I believe atheists should be persecuted.
And lol I’m a Sunni Muslim, I’ll have you know- I wonder what you think you know about Sunni Islam lol- I invite you to learn about it, my inbox is always open- don’t get triggered with me I’m not saying you *have* to but just that, that option is always there for you lol
Since you did exactly what I thought you would do, I will not go deep into detail and just answer a couple of things.
- The list of churches and the percentage of population is irrelevant. For once because the population percentage needs to be in context of how it developed over the decades and secondly most of those churches were already existing for a long time. The example of Egypt already disproved you. There are churches in Egypt and yet the Copts are under massive attacks.
- "My problem is, if you're going to talk about religious extremists in Africa, please have some consistency" No. You are just derailing and shifting the goalpost. My statement was about China and Muslims. And how many muslim places mistreat non-muslims. YOU were the one bringing christian extremism into the conversation for no other reason but to relativize. You clearly can't just admit "yes, this happens". You need to somehow bring other forms of extremism into play to relativize and thus downplay the islamic extremism instead of just saying "yes, this happens".
- "So you're aware of what is happening to the Uyghur Muslims but instead of admitting it is wrong". If you quote me, quote me properly. I ended my initial statement with "I despise both. China and said countries.". Considering something as morally wrong doesn't equal defining the amount of sympathy for the situation. I said my pity is limited. I also said I despise both. That means I consider Chinas actions morally wrong AND that I have lackluster pity for a demographic group that has an extensive amount of extremism among their own. Those two aren't mutual exclusive opinions.
- "Christians are completely persecuted in Muslim majority countries, but in Western countries Muslims can do whatever they want!" Again you didn't properly read what I said. Despite me choosing my words carefully. I said "in many muslim countries". Not in all, not even in the majority. In many. So instead of treating criticism of anything related to Islam as a personal attack (read point 2 in my Take that I linked above), take a step back and try to understand what I am saying.
- "The niqab is banned in a number of Western countries. France has banned burkinis, halal meat and kosher, hijabs in schools, public workers such as teachers wearing the hijab and now they're considering banning the hijab in university. A Muslim NGO head was raided in France without any explanation from the authorities, he was accused of 'condoning terrorism' in a deleted tweet- a debatable tweet is not an excuse to raid somebody:" Once again you see matters as a personal attack. Did you consider that all these things were done not because of it relation to Islam, but because of a concept that is called "equality infront of the law".
Let's do it step by step: 1. Niqabs got banned, because face-covering is banned in many western legislations. The issue is that religious garment was excluded from this for a long while. For example: In Sweden face-covering was banned a couple of years ago to prevent football hooligans staying anonymous. Niqabs were exluded. Wonder what they did? The hooligans were wearing Niqabs. 2. Burkinis is the same principle. Face covering = illegal. It just so happens that your religion has an extensive need for face-covering. 3. Halal and Kosher meat being banned shows already that it is not directly an attack against Muslims. It was banned, because the procedure is inhumane for both religions. Watch a video on how meat is butchered for halal and kosher meat and then tell me to my face this isn't violent. Unlike in many Islamic nations, western nations do have some laws protecting animals from abuse. 4. Hijabs are banned in university, because education system is meant to not have religious symbols in them. Hijab is a religious symbol for muslim women. Again no direct attack against muslims.
5. I don't know the story behind that, but again it's not like these things doesn't happen to non-muslims, either. I can think of more than a few cases where people got raided in Europe for offensive tweets. Not to mention that France has a history of terrorists hiding behind NGOs and Clerics. There has been quite the extensive list of police raids of mosques were weapons got found.
Result: None of these things are a direct attack to Islam. You just perceive it as such. Again, see point 2 in the My Take I listed.
- In the West, Muslims don't have complete freedom either: "Christians are completely persecuted in Muslim majority countries, but in Western countries Muslims can do whatever they want!""
I already explained you these things one paragraph above. Equality infront of the law doesn't mean you can do what you want. There are laws in place. And some of these laws will hit some demographics more than others. Don't like it? No one's forcing you to stay in secular western countries where equality infront of the law is a thing. There are plenty of islamic countries where governments abide to islamic rules. That's not the case in secular countries. Muslims do not stand above the law and have to abide to those laws like everyone else. Equality in front of the law does NOT mean oppression. You are objectively wrong here by implying it does.
- "Yes, this is a major problem- period." I did. I said I despise China which was in context of chinese policies as a whole. Again, me stating chinese policies are horrible and me having a lackluster sympathy for a demographic group that has an extensive amount of extremism among them are not mutually exclusive beliefs to hold.
- I do not have the study to hand. It was about 5-10 years ago I read up on it. If I recall correctly it was islamic law overriding european law. I think it was specifically related to the Sharia.
- "As a Muslim my Islamic beliefs come first. The fact I am Muslim, comes first. And do you want to know what Islam teaches Muslims about obeying the law"
And that's the exact wrong mindset. Your individual belief doesn't come first. The rule of the law in whatever country you are does. You have to abide by the rules set in place by the majority as a whole. If you disagree with it, you need to either suck it up, go somewhere that agrees with your mindset or convince enough people that they want to make a change with their democratic voice.
So no, your islamic views do NOT come first. That's not how secularism and democracy works. You really should learn more about this, because you are having some misconceptions here.
Democracy and secualarism means that the people as a whole find a consensus on what rules they want. That's done through the majority via voting representantives (and in some cases referendums). That by definitions means that the majority gets to decide, because it is fairer to have more than 50% of the people decide for rules than less than 50%. Simple as that. And the less than 50% either need to accept it or try to get more support on their side.
"Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “It is necessary upon a Muslim to listen to and obey the ruler, as long as one is not ordered to carry out a sin. If he is commanded to commit a sin, then there is no adherence and obedience.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2796 & Sunan Tirmidhi)"
Irrelevant. There are clear rules on what is considered sinful in Islam. And quite a few of those islamic rules are opposite to western laws. Which you clearly stated already: "So even if Muslims prefer Islamic law over European law, as long as European law does not stop us from practicing our religion- we should abide by it. That's an Islamic value within itself." It does. As shown above. Niqabs are forbidden, because face covering is forbidden in plenty of countries. You are clearly stating here that in those cases islamic law comes before european law. Meaning muslims are obligated to not obey those western laws. How is a jurisdical system going to work when a demographic of over 5% in plenty of western countries is convinced that they are above the national law? Explain that to me.
- "And actually, I can't speak for the whole of Europe but I do know there is an Orthodox Jewish community in London, who have their own ambulances, their own police, their own hospitals, men and women walk on separate sides of the road"
And I fully disagree with that. So the point you are trying to make here is moot.
"but there are other religious minorities who quite clearly prefer their religious rulings too"
What do you think is going to happen if every religious groups will prefer their religious rulings to the point they put it over national law like you do? And those religious rulings are opposite to other religions and it's rulings? Conflict will happen. And that conflict can easily lead to violence among those groups.
"if people are going to come at the Muslim community, I'd like to see some consistency."
I am actually coming at you right now, because you are clearly confirming that islamic rules override national rules in the muslim mindset. Exactly the thing I am critical about.
- A war that was started by the Persians after the previous king of the Byantine empire was overthrown. So no, Muslims did not "have to fight for their survival". You are plain and simply wrong in that regard.
Secondly the Quran is supposely the perfect word of god. A lackluster context that can lead to interpretation essentially disqualifies this notion. Because there are clearly muslims who disagree with you and who also lived it out in current and past times and demanded disbelievers to pay said Jizya.
- I miswrote. I meant to write an outro. A closing word essentially.
Have you ever heard the joke about the ghost driver? A man drives down a highway listening to the radio. The moderator gives out a warning: "On highway X there is a ghost driver on the road." The man driving says out: "One ghost driver? Hundreds of them!"
Maybe take a step back and think about why muslims have so much more antipathies directed towards them than other religions. If it was just based off of racism, all those other religions would get the same amount of antipathies.
Not surprising. Soon this will be happening in the U. S. because communists are in power here.
First we ban Pepe Lepew and Mr. Potato Head. We also define all whites as automatically privileged and racist at birth. Soon it will be mandatory for people to apologize for being white or male or straight or Christian or whatever.
Lastly we will be rounding up and killing anyone who is not woke or anyone who is against these things.
Its not about being a Muslim or not, yeah I raised up in a Muslim family but I am not sad cause these people are Muslims. I just know how China is evil and trying to assimilate those people in evil way, I just wish one day all world unite and invade China.. these guys literally f*cked the world with their viruses and shit.
Yes, I am aware. It preplexes me how khan (prime minister) says he cares about all muslims... According to him, yet I know he won't speak up about this. Thank you for spreading awareness on a violation of human rights.
I'm against those crimes and I feel bad for them... not because they're Muslims... that's how almost everybody think.. But Muslims... They only care about other Muslims.. They want the whole world to prioritize this and they want the whole world to overly respect their prophet... But they can call everyone anything and not even say rest in piece because if you're not muslim you're going to hell.. and keep spreading terrorism and ironically Muslims praise hitler for what he did to the jews...
Wow, 85% were aware, I guess my not watching the news anymore has really paid off! So they are being detained and deported? Because they are Muslim or because their ethic (Turkish) background?
Why don’t you look at the genocides your own Catholic people have committed? https:// www. girlsaskguys. com/social -relationships/q4560200-why-isn-t-there-attention-to-the-genocides-westerners-have-committed#new 751 people and 100 Native American children buried in unmarked graves.
@Coulis Ameen. Have you heard the “where is the love” Nasheed? I love that lyric that goes “It’s okay cos in God we trust and even if He’s all we got we got everything we need”😝
Sheikhs on YouTube could be considered ulema too, prime example, Mufti Menk. Lots of the ulema consider Nasheeds to be permissible anyway, there is a legitimate difference of opinion among scholars.
@SpiderManFan2002 Mufti Menk has gross errors and should be avoided. Stick to Shaikh Rabee, Shaykh Fawzaan, Shaykha Ubayd. The ones with the white hair who have given all their years to this dawah. Shaikh Al Albanee Shaykh Uthyameen Shaykh as Saidi. They don't do it for the subs, views and likes. And with Allaah lies the success.
No sis, I love you for the sake of Allah but I have to disagree with you on that. We shouldn’t invalidate scholars just because they make some mistakes- differences of opinion are present among scholars and they are valid. You shouldn’t really judge someone based off of their hair colour but their credentials, and you can’t really accuse people of doing it for “likes and views” when you don’t know their intentions remember the Quran tells us to assume the best in each other?
I mean he’s studied Shariah, he doesn’t have the title of ‘Mufti’ for no reason. To simply invalidate his Dawah because you think it has ‘errors’ is just wrong sister.
@SpiderManFan2002 i mentioned their hair ciloir to emphasize their experience but I guess you didn't get it. Read the buo of Shaykh Fawzaan abdurrahman.org/.../
Re "mufti" menk errors, he spreads the idea of al muwaazanah which means balancing. Or taki g the good and leaving the bad when callers have errors in creed and methodology of Islaam. Ie. Grave worshipping or denying Attributes of Allaah. This is a false prin iple thatvhas no basis at all i ln the sunnah. An explanation of "mufti" menk and his mistakes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OPpX4dNDcus
Sister, I never said that the scholars you provided were inexperienced, all I was trying to say was Mufti Menk is very knowledgeable and has lots of experience too, so you shouldn’t invalidate his knowledge.
And sister with all due respect, I find that video ridiculous. They take a snippet from a Mufti Menk lecture and most likely have taken it out of context. He was simply saying that we shouldn’t be arrogant and think our particular group that we belong to are the only ones who can teach us something- I’ve had many non-Muslims teach me good things too, I’ve noticed people often take Mufti Menk’s words out of context. For example one woman accused him of saying the Quran is a history book, when he never said that- he said that the Quran contained history not that it was a history book.
Sister the man speaking in this video appears to be incredibly arrogant and I would also argue misguided. What this man is insinuating is that we should despise disbelievers? If we should despise them, can you please explain to me why the Prophet Muhammad (saw) had several peace treaties with disbelievers? And what are the credentials of the man making this video? Is he anywhere near as qualified as Mufti Menk?
I'm fully aware. But sadly, I don't think anything's going to be done about it because pretty much all western governments and corporations are addicted to those lovely Chinabucks.
Those type of leftists are called Tankies. they don't want actual progressivism, they just want an authoritarian ethnostate and will lob insults towards the west but ignore major crimes and human rights violation by their own governments. Yeah they suck
