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Are you aware there’s a genocide against Muslims currently happening in China? (Page 2)
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Yes I'm aware.
Chinese policies are horrible.
They are also oppressing other minorities such as Mongolians and Christians.
It's funny that their majorities too can't even talk about it.
You guys are just blowing up the bad things out of proportion. Is everyone in America dying from mass shootings? That’s just letting the media represent everything you think about a country. Plenty of coexistence in a China as well!
Sadly nobody cares about muslims in the world if they get genocided.
The biggest problem are the Islamic countries, they are silent on China
Except Turkey and i think the UAE. but Turkey has been very vocal against China for this.
otherwise yeah you're right i think they are just intimated by China to speak up against them or its just in their best interests to remain silent.
Actually turkey is known for trading the uyghurs with china for vaccines.
Erdogan is only a little puppet who follows his interests , and UAE haven't done that much also
that's genuinely horrible
I knew that the Chinese government was bad but this is seriously messed up
It's not my business or my nation. China is a sovereign country and lets not forget The East Turkestan Independence movement. Its modern day equivalent, is the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a known terrorist group. You can't leave out the backstory on why China is heavily involved in the region, or why it is using heavy handed actions. There are also other Sunni Islamic minorities in China who are not oppressed, but that's because they are not producing suicide bombers and jihadists.
Neither were the uyghyurs... stop being an apologist for chinas crimes
Yeah they were, and I already mentioned the East Turkestan Islamic Movement. They were responsible for a number of suicide bombings in China. Which is what prompted their security measures and "re-education" camps.
Well there's stuff like this happening in a bunch of other countries.
yes but this one seems to fly under the radar because pro china nationalists like to spin it as western propaganda. and a lot of people fall for that
Yeah I am aware this has had some if not a lot of coverage in Britain
if you go to youtube check out ChinaUncensored if you haven't already. Really solid content.
Thanks I will have a look
I checked that channel but think it’s biased against China so dislike it.
@Montano_lady the same people run a AmericaUncensored. It's biased against the CCP. But the CCP is biased against humanity so yeah, I'm fine with this.
@t-8900 that’s just you’re personal view. CCP helped pull Chinese people out of poverty I see them as mix of good and bad not pure bad.
@Montano_lady at the expense of every other ethnic group they forced their power over. At the expense of millions dying under Mao for being an idiot that caused a mass famine. At the expense of religious freedom and tolerance. At the expense of basic human rights to millions and the forced impregnation of young women of other ethnic origins. I bet you also see the rise of Hitler favorably too for Germany because it's the same shit happening all over again. Oh they raise the GDP and wages so fuck all the evil they do. You're insane bro.
@Montano_lady hey you know who else pulled people out of poverty? Adolf Hitler in the 3rd Reich. It’s amazing what you can achieve when you just don’t give a shit about a large portion of your population l.
@t-8900 I said it’s a mix of good and bad as with all regimes throughout history. You’re the one who wants to make it simple but oh well most sheeple do I guess.
@Montano_lady it's simple. you talked about getting them out of poverty, and I told you about the rest of the picture. Your reasoning doesn't justify the defense of those worthless sacks of shit.
Mao was pretty bad to be sure but CCP now is different from fifty years ago. Of course I understand what you mean that they have a lot of unsavory tactics. To be fair other Asian governments are like this too but they don’t receive as much attention because they’re not as powerful as China
@Montano_lady I mean the genocides didn't end with Mao. We have seen new human rights violations with each new leader. They aren't worth defending in any capacity. I also criticize the American gov all the time. We shouldn't tolerate any of the evil that big governments across the world do.
Xi Jinping is basically Mao 2.0 you just too kind to see it
Meh. the US and Europe have been killing Muslims in the Middle East and Afghanistan for decades.
It's no wonder hardly anyone bats an eye on China.
Doesn’t mean what China is doing is right...
Yup. And Disney more-or-less supported it. And other Western corporations in general are supporting the regime allowing this to happen.
I have been aware of this and so is Joe Biden. His position is that the Chinese Government has it's own customs which are different from our customs so everything is cool.
We should tell the NBA about this. They deal with China a lot and they need to know this
i googled this and it seems that the NBA is ignoring these genocidal behaviors because china gives them money
of course. money speaks after all
a personality that was peaking on this topic said that China kept them afloat during this past year which had about 56% of last years viewership. That makes them beholden to China and they are not about to speak up against them
Well they should send them back to their home country instead of killing them, but China knows what's up..
That is their home... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs#Early_history
Ok, but even still that was how long ago? They've since then largely migrated. And it's no secret what plenty of Muslims have on their agenda, no secret at all. If you want to argue that, I have no words for u.
ok... even if you think that... genocide is not the answer
that's literally why i said killing them is wrong, did you not read?
i did... but sometimes people just say things...
Especially the women and children, like they're probably oppressed at home by muslim men... I feel terrible for them
thats a pretty bold assumption to make... you got a source on that claim? Uygyurs have been oppressed throughout history.. but from Chinese not their own as far as we know.
Anyone who has Muslim men in the family and lives heavily on that religion, I'm going to assume has or had a tough life. Maybe not all, but a lot.
ok im gonna call that what it is.. xenophobia and racist
Yes. I am also aware the actual presidente, "president" of China, is like Hitler. The Asian version of Hitler. Don't forget about the Rohinjas in Myammar.
Those are re-education camps not ovens. No one is dying they are just being “re-educated” so that they don’t introduce Islam to China.
Stop demonizing the CCP to serve your own western propaganda
this isn't a western source an YES they are dying over there: chinadigitaltimes.net/.../
i just knew one of you fucking tankies would come to my question. China does NOT get a free pass for their crimes. you overlooking this is fucking disgusting.
I refuse to let some ignorant pig besmirch my mother country. Would you like it if someone insulted your homeland? You should go FUKC yourself instead.
I acknowledge our terrible crimes but you noooo china is soo pure and perfect right? they can do no wrong? open your fucking eyes already
Just because some people have died doesn’t mean that’s what they’re systematically doing. Of course I don’t think it’s a good thing but I’m allowed to criticize my government not you you’re not Chinese and you’re interfering outside your jurisdiction
too bad you can't do shit about it huh? we get to say whatever the fuck we want unlike you in china.
You are so brainwashed if you think only Americans have freedom haha. Take a look around most Americans are not that free. Incarceration rate of America is even higher than in China though China has four times the number of people.
American society is under thought police just as much as China if not more. You are so brainwashed it’s disgusting
Of course I don’t agree with the Uighur camps but it is factually wrong to call it a genocide because the intent is not to squish out Uighur but to squish out Islam. Don’t confuse what’s going on!
we still have free speech and despite all the horrors America has committed we still have that core value here. you Chinese get arrested just for healthy criticism of your government or even comparing Xi jingping to Winnie the pooh of all things lol. pretty fucked up.
And Cultural genocide is still genocide even if you disregard the death reports.
Either way you're still a xenophobic racist
China is a sovereign country, they can deal with their issues the way it suits them best. We Americans have no say in that.
The world has a say in it.
We can’t physically go there and do anything. We can however make everyone completely aware of it and put enormous pressure on anyone trying to do business with them until this stops. But unfortunately they are a big force to be reckoned with and a lot of the smaller surrounding nations don’t have a spine in condemning or even recognizing what’s going on there.
Who's the "world"? LMFAO!!!
"We can however make everyone completely aware of it and put enormous pressure on anyone trying to do business"
Yeah, yeah. Good luck at that.
It is working. More and more people are learning about it everyday. It can’t be ignored forever
Economic sanctions are idiotic. Business still gets done either way. You are so brainwashed it’s sickening.
@Montano_lady again projecting much?
You’re not even making sense this is stupid you’re stupid
@Montano_lady nahhh you are lol
Yeah, the weird part is the media, big tech, and the corporate elite run defense for China. And everyone acts like Trump is xenophobic when he went after China even thought they know this shit is going on.
Living under the CCP sounds like a nightmare
In some US states, post-DNC coup, it's not much better than life in China. New York and California are second only to the UK in being Clown World hotbeds. More and more of Big Tech, including Fandom. com, has now fallen to the same totalitarian batshit insane Woketard mob that has made Twitter a toxic echo chamber.
Their staff is now out to get me, because I recently abandoned my wiki network on their site after they blocked me for refusing to abandon my belief in equal treatment of users. They want me to adopt a one-sided, double standard-laden set of rules that allow wokes and LGBTQPIZON zealots have free reign to kafkatrap, abuse, and terrorize whomever they please, without penalty. But anyone who even dares try to defend themselves, they demand I block. Because defending yourself when they attack, no matter how insane their argument, is "phobic conduct"! I refused to let one side or the other treat the other that way. So I was declared a "phobe." And staff was extremely smug , unprofessional, and self-righteous about it all.
To the 9th Circuit Court now believes that working class citizens have no right to self-defense, but won't dent it to the permanent welfare class. Nor to the elite government rich. Nor the corporate wealthy that they like. Nor foreign criminal miscreants. Only the citizens of the working cclass are banned from self-defense.
That is a completely unlawful ruling!
The kook fringe, shrieking demon left is looking for a fight. And won't stop making us like China, until someone goes Far Cry on them and gives them the fight they want.
You are being brainwashed. Even experts who criticize China say that at most it's a cultural genocide and not a full blown genocide. You are just trying to smear China because you are Irish Catholic who are notorious for being bullies and racist.
Nope. no brainwashing here. just facts. go continue sucking on china's teat sir.
You can go sucking on America’s propaganda yourself Mr. Brainwashed.
Even the sources you provide don’t say that the Uighur are systematically being killed which is the essence of a genocide. The usage of the word genocide was pioneered by Mike Pompeo to smear China and justify America’s continued military industrial complex which is the only thing that keeps America working ( besides porn and Hollywood basically). Continue being brainwashed and feeding the fat bloating monster of your society.
nope.. you'll have to go through each an every source and disprove it before i take you seriously. until then just quit while you can.
Actually even in your own wording you don’t say that Uighur are being systematically killed which has is the essence of a genocide and so therefore the use of the genocide is simply inaccurate.
Use of the word*
All you are trying to do is smear China even though it has proven itself to be a great country pulling its citizens out of poverty and improving the world economy peacefully as opposed to the U. S.
I don't doubt for a second that uyghurs have been killed or at least tortured. And there is such a thing as cultural genocide. It's still wiping out or expunging a culture (like for instance the American Indians... yes i can acknowledge America has its own terrible crimes, why can't you do this with China?) . academic.oup.com/ejil/article/29/2/373/5057075
And it is STILL a terrible terrible crime. and that you have the gall to try to minimize it is just appalling. Also no China does NOT get a free pass just because they aren't a western nation. so get out of here with that shit.
"All you are trying to do is smear China even though it has proven itself to be a great country pulling its citizens out of poverty and improving the world economy peacefully as opposed to the U. S. "
none of that makes what they are doing any better. look at nazi germany during the late 30's. they were doing very well economically tooo... and well we all know what really happened there don't we?
"An August 2020 Quartz article reported that some scholars hesitate to label the human rights abuses in Xinjiang as a "full-blown genocide", preferring the term "cultural genocide","
[1st link]
"Though they said the camp system’s forced indoctrination and family separation may amount to cultural genocide, there wasn’t enough evidence to show that China’s actions met the United Nations’ definition of demographic genocide."
[2nd link]
[3rd link]
(The word "genocide" was not used in the entire article)
"have now been incarcerated in an expanding network of “political re-education” camps (NOT genocide), according to U. S. officials and United Nations experts.
[4th link]
(The word "genocide" was not used once in these articles)
[5th link] [6th link]
[7th link] (I couldn't access it without paying)
"the experiences described could not be independently verified,"
"She is also pressing Beijing for a response: either financial compensation or, at least, an apology" (Doesn't sound like a genocide if only an apology will do)
"Under China’s one-child policy, abortions and contraceptives were encouraged – and often enforced – by officials tasked with keeping the population down. Exceptions were granted for ethnic minorities, who were allowed one more child than Han Chinese." (How can it be a genocide if Chinese government enforces population control on its own citizens as well?)
[8th link]
So as you can see I went through all of your sources and refuted your claim that it is a "genocide". I prefer the term persecution instead.
oh sorry I was busy looking through the links and didn't get your two last responses till after I submitted mine
I would call all of that a genocide yes.
But regardless you are still attempting to minimize china's crimes.. please stop doing that you just look foolish... and maybe even evil for doing it.
And just so we're clear America is not a force for good in the world either clearly. So if i can acknowledge that why can't YOU acknowledge that china also has committed a lot of shady human rights violations too? or are they just the perfect utopia?
I acknowledge that China has done crimes but I still love China because it is the land of my people. I refuse to hear outsiders attack my mother land. The principle is it's ok to insult your own mother but you can't insult someone else's mother.
If you were focused on America's atrocities (like Agent Orange, slavery of Africans, decimation of Native Americans) I would be more supportive but if you want to attack my country while not having any loyalty to China then it's not something I can support.
I don't think China is a perfect Utopia I just love China because it is the land of my people it is emotionally significant to me probably like America is to you even though it is not perfect.
When any country commits human atrocities it should be the business of everyone quite frankly. There are crimes happening all over the world (yemen, syria, venezuela for ecample), but i get more shit thrown at me anytime i criticize china over any other country. Sounds like you guys are too insecure to handle ANY criticism at all. So i suggest you guys grow some spine. after all America is ALWAYS criticized by everyone on planet earth including by Americans themselves. China is NOT exempted just because. you aren't exceptional just like americans are not exceptional.
"I don't think China is a perfect Utopia I just love China because it is the land of my people it is emotionally significant to me probably like America is to you even though it is not perfect. "
We should also acknowledge that criticizing your government does NOT also mean criticizing the people there. i think you are making that error in logic there. Chinese people are great, there are lots of Chinese descendants in america and are clearly good people. But your government is in need of serious retooling and especially Xi Xinping needs to either step down or something. making himself president for life wasn't very good.
ok I'll admit we Chinese tend to be defensive sometimes. I also feel like I've seen similar behavior from Turks as well and perhaps even other countrymen (Mexico, India, Vietnam, Philippines, Sweden...)
But rather than digging dirt on every country there is why don't you just focus on problems at your home and let other people deal with themselves? After all what do you really accomplish by just pointing fingers and getting everyone to yell "boo!" with you?
And you may say you criticize America but if someone else were to do it I bet you'd get defensive too.
What is a people without their land? China is the land of my people and if you say you criticize China but not Chinese people it's sending a divided message because land and people are connected. At least that's what I think anyway sigh whatever.
"But rather than digging dirt on every country there is why don't you just focus on problems at your home and let other people deal with themselves? After all what do you really accomplish by just pointing fingers and getting everyone to yell "boo!" with you?"
because not doing so and spreading the word to everyone everywhere allows governments to get away with crimes and never answering for any of them. there's an importance in doing this and its to hopefully save people before things spiral out of control which they usually do if their power is not put in check (just look at every other dictatorial government in history).
"And you may say you criticize America but if someone else were to do it I bet you'd get defensive too. ""
If it's clearly warranted i absolutely would not get defensive. I criticize my own government all the time.. we clearly have a lot of catching up to do with the rest of the developed world and every misstep our government takes im right there with others in condemning it. people from other countries are allowed to do it too and i wouldn't care at all.
not the land the GOVERNMENT. the people leading your country. they should be criticized all the time every time. and that doesn't make your people bad by doing that.
Why does the government of China answer to YOU? Some malcontent rambling online in America? You're halfway across the world and you probably have to deal more with school shootings and homelessness than Xinjiang or Taiwan. See it accomplishes NOTHING.
awww anon guy i thought you were getting better in this convo... looks like i hurt your feelings huh?
Welp sorry im going to criticize your and any other government (including america) that commits genocide against people and no i am not ever gonna back down from doing that. guess you'll have to suck it up :D
lol fine but why don't you fix your own messes first? What about rampant school shootings in America? Mass obesity? What about America's use of Agent Orange in Vietnam? Or hate crimes against Asians? Or its support of Israel and Saudi Arabia both terrorists in their own right? Or America's involvement in destabilizing Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan? Or America's backstabbing of Kurdish fighters? Or the decimation of Native Americans? Internment of Japanese during ww2? Detaining Mexicans at the border?
Why don't you solve the literally hundreds of problems America has first before even THINKing about maligning another country? Like isn't that just as hypocritical as can be?
Or is the only thing you're good at is complaining?
"lol fine but why don't you fix your own messes first? What about rampant school shootings in America?"
Terrible
"Mass obesity?" Bad
" What about America's use of Agent Orange in Vietnam?" Terrible
"Or hate crimes against Asians?" also terrible
" Or its support of Israel and Saudi Arabia both terrorists in their own right?" Yup also bad
"Or America's involvement in destabilizing Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan?" mmhmm really bad
"Or America's backstabbing of Kurdish fighters?" Bad
" Or the decimation of Native Americans?" i already acknowledged this. pay attention.
" Internment of Japanese during ww2" a terrible crime
"Detaining Mexicans at the border?" horrendous
"Why don't you solve the literally hundreds of problems America has first" We are working on it. there's only so much we can do...
" before even THINKing about maligning another country?" Because I can and it still helps everyone become enlightened on the situation.
" Like isn't that just as hypocritical as can be?" no. i already established that if you have legitimate complaints about americas government too then im right there with you. all those things you listed are terrible and have expressed it on other forums elsewhere. I use my vote to help things too. We do try to do things here.
HAha sorry I just don't think you are genuine. Complaining is NOT an accomplishment. If you want change you should BE the change instead of just asking for it. Pick one issue that really matters to you most and focus on that instead of just attacking everything because it's the "cool" thing to do. If you do that you're just following a trend/bandwagon and not really accomplishing anything in particular. You're just raising a bandwagon for everyone else to whine with you. It accomplishes nothing and just makes you look like you're joining a fad instead of trying to do anything real.
"We are working on it. there's only so much we can do..."
Excuses! How is that a legitimate response to the innocent people who lost their families in Syria's bombings? Or any of the other crimes America has committed? "only so much we can do?" That's an ABYSMAL excuse.
Ok lets see your suggestions then. what can we do? and no military intervention is out of the table.
Well my personal belief is that American politics should turn more inward rather than outward. Change how history is taught in schools to be more regional focused rather than global focused. Improve school lunches and have more after school activities to improve mental health and diminish school shootings. Debunk racial beliefs by bringing more attention to people's ethnic history and commonalities between different people's histories.
I don't know just some ideas off the top of my head. But my overall belief is that America should become more inward rather than outward.
just out of curiosity should america have remained inward during world war ii? Because we didn't want any part of it before pearl harbor happened. What if we just never did anything. we didn't help britain defeat germany or stop japan's imperial expansions (including into china i might add). Think that would've been ok?
That was a sensible time to attack because Japan attacked America first. Although even then America wasn't truly inward because they denounced what Japan was doing in Asia and broke Japan's trade routes. That's what prompted Japan to attack America ultimately in retaliation. In fact 80 years before America was the one that invaded Japan first with Commodore Perry trying to force Japan to trade with Americans. That was the basis for the move "the Last Samurai" where American forces overwhelmed Japan's traditional warlords and forced Japan to restructure themselves.
So even in the distant past America was never inward looking they were expanding and intruding onto other people's territories. Maybe the only time America was truly inward was during the Puritan colonists where they focused on their own society rather than expanding.
But I'll admit that America's involvement in WW2 saved China a lot of suffering so effectually American's outwardness did accomplish good even though I oppose it from a principles stand-point.
looking inward isn't the best solution in our interconnected globalized world anymore. we are no longer small disconnected countries despite what the borders drawn on the globe mean. we need to all stick together as a species if we are to survive into the future... especially since once climate change gets way out of hand we are all gonna need it. So in the time being we need to criticise any and ALL governments. spread awareness, vote out bad leaders (like Trump) and do away with bad or inhumane policies that harm populations... like a genocide does.
So i don't agree with you that nations should continue to look inward. We should look everywhere because things are gonna be real bad someday in the future.
Sigh fine but if EVERYONE looked inward I think all our problems would be solved. But it would only work well if everyone did it.
China is the best and you are scum
fuck you catholic hypocrite
Seems to be a problem for Muslims wherever they go.
Yep, definitely aware, not the first time a power hungry nation of evil has such camps without the world giving a shit.
Yes we have been aware for years. But seriously, what are we going to do about it? China has the world by the short and curlies right now.