Do other countries have a right to criticize America's retreat from Afghanistan?

[purplepoppy]

Depending on your point of view America either got it's ass whopped and ran away or said this pointless, Afghanistan doesn't deserve our help. Either way it's a case of fuck you, I'm not playing anymore, I'm going home.
Now although the USA is by far the biggest player several other countries have played support roles of various sizes. But second America decided on a withdrawal deadline they all rushed to comply with it while criticizing it's short rushed nature.

Why couldn't they say fuck America we'll withdraw at our own pace or even we'll stay and finish the job. In short do we have a right to criticize America's dishonorable fleeing of the battlefield when we're doing the same?

[Lliam]

The 'people' of all countries SHOULD strongly criticize America, no only for this Afghan withdrawal fiasco, but for all of its imperial actions around the world since WWII. But people should be equally criticizing America's allies, as well, for cooperating and collaborating.

However, it's utterly hypocritical and disingenuous for politicians to criticize the U. S. Those pieces of shit just pander to the ignorant masses for political gain.

After many of the European imperial powers were crushed in WWI and Europe was further brought to its knees in WWII, the U. S. took over as the remaining western colonial power (new British Empire) and decided to conquer the globe with back up from its puny lackeys.

On the topic of Afghanistan, in the first half of the 19th century, Britain was extremely wary of Russian competition against it dominance of trade. It was thought that a Russian invasion of Afghanistan would be an inevitable part of this. So the mighty British decided to invade Afghanistan and marched unchallenged into Kabul in early 1839. They were driven out by the Afghans in 1842.

On a side note, speaking of British imperialism, a handful of British aristocrats, with Rothschild financing, secretly engineered the war against Germany that became WWI, all for the purpose of protecting British trade against Germany's rising industrialization. 20 million people died and there were 21 million casualties. It also led to the Bolshevik revolution and creation of the USSR. In addition, the U. S. and European powers divided the former Ottoman empire among themselves and drew new borders to be ruled as colonies. But I digress.

Back to the main subject. After WWII, competition with Russia, now the USSR, became the new cause of imperial conflict between east and west.

By the 1970s, the USSR, had a friendly government in Afghanistan. Well, America just couldn't have that. There was already resistance to Russia within Afghanistan. So the U. S. aided, armed and funded the resistance known as the mujahadin and, later, became the Taliban. Russia was eventually driven out. All of the modernization that had been occurring in Afghanistan was wiped out and the country fell under the rule of the Taliban. Thanks, America.

The USSR disintegrated by 1992 but the effort to crush Russia continued.

The Bush administration decided to invade Afghanistan and Iraq in 2001 as part of the long-planned geopolitical agenda to dominate the world's resources and marginalize Russia and China. There was no exit strategy, but neither was there any hope of colonizing Afghanistan. "Stabilizing" the country and supporting human rights was just a PR excuse for the occupation.
I think the main motive was to transfer $trillions of American tax dollars to war profiteers and, also, to recover the opium market.

Now that as much money as possible has been squeezed out and the U. S. imperialists have bigger things to worry about with the rise of China as a super power, the Biden administration decided to simply pull the plug. But it did so in a way that is highly questionable. We abandoned U. S. troops (contrary to the military motto "never leave a man behind"), Afghani allies (as we did in Viet Nam), and tens of $billions in military hardware.

Oh well, as far as the military profiteers are concerned, fuck the people left behind and fuck the U. S. And abandoning hardware is actually a good thing because that means it will have to be replaced (purchased).
As far as the U. S. is concerned, there may be plans to use the Taliban against Iran in the future. There are always wheels within wheels.

What happened to our military personnel and the Afghani people is a tragedy. But people should be more concerned with the death devastation that is continually caused by the U. S. and its allies around the world.

[HistoryMan30]

Honestly? No.
Regardless of what the United States does, the world will find a way to complain.
However, what annoys me is the ignorance of the situation, and what ultimately led to this crisis.


If we take a look at the situation in Afghanistan, we will recognize all foreign powers have been playing a consistently smaller role in the nation for nearly 10 years.
From 2010-2021, was a consistent withdrawal of Military forces.
The United States for example, when from a standing manpower of 100,000 in Afghanistan in 2010, to only 16,000 in 2014.
Post 2014, the War was completely controlled by the Afghan Government and its security forces.
Most of that period of time Foreign powers were playing a logistical/support/train role.


However, the corruption of the Afghan Government was always its downfall.
Take for example how salaries were paid towards its own servicemen.
Up to 2018, the Pentagon was in charge of the payments... but since then the Afghan Government took over.

It just happened that post 2018, we saw the Taliban making major gains
Often against ANDSF forces that were poorly supported, and poorly funded.

Years and years mistreatment from their own government, and rampant corruption that led to even Foreign powers threatening to withhold funds (for example, after the Ghani/Abdullah Election, where there were claims of fraud, and no consensus could be made).. It became clear that the Afghan Government was its own worst enemy



Even the "Offensives" of the Taliban in 2021 were not "Military victories" but often times Governors of Provinces selling their own territories...


There were so many underhanded things going on within the Afghan Government, that it became a waste of resources for the United States and its allies.

THE MAJORITY OF THE BLAME.. is set specifically on the Afghan Government.


HOWEVER!!!
There is clearly some blame meant for specifically Biden in his handling of the withdrawal
FOR EXAMPLE, it was clear that the small contingent of American forces in Afghanistan were enough to curb any Taliban offensives (largely out of their fear of being in conflict with the USA military).
Only when Biden made it clear that all USA forces were withdrawal unconditionally (meaning they would not require the Taliban to follow the peace agreement), did the Taliban begin to launch their major offensives


Biden took what was a decent situation that could enforce a peace process, and perhaps an interim government
and gave the Taliban free reign.
On top of making a complete mockery of the withdrawal process itself (which was the biggest humiliation of the entire process)

[HistoryMan30]

So did the United States get its ass wooped?
Not in the slightest... If anything, it was decisively destroying the Taliban on the battlefield during its involvement

Taliban gains were made during a period of time that saw little to no American military involvement
Once the United States removed its influence... began removing forces... began removing political influences.. etc... The Taliban were able to fill up that vacuum (much thanks to Afghan Government ineptness and corruption).

Do our partners have a right to criticize our decisions?
How could they, when they have made those very same decisions.
Was it not the lead of NATO that stated they would continue to support the ANDSF? (Stoltenberg I believe his name?).
Its likely our allies recognized the pointless adventures when the Afghan Government couldn't manage the resources properly.. due to their own corruption..
and recognized any reinvestment in the conflict would likely create the same outcome

How I see it, that is not a "lost" war.. or a "loss" of NATO.
It is clearly a recognition that the investments gained no returns... So why continue that commitment to a force (Afghan Government) that had no interest in taking anything serious outside of lining their own pockets.
The Afghan Government lost that war
Not the USA, not Europe, not NATO.
It was a war the Afghan Government largely fought alone for many years.. and had many years of support to change the tide.
They had the resources and means.. but decided that their own gain of wealth was more important...

Quite pathetic really

None the less, this does not leave Biden off the hook for his negative influences
or the completely horrifically botched withdrawal

[NorthShoreCalling]

It’s nice to see some sensible answers here.

[Tamera952]

Do they have the right? -- yes absolutely. They deserve some critique for sure. I'm glad it's over with, but wish it went more orderly. But then again there was some crazy variables that surprised everyone. Also, I don't think it's as simple or extreme as 'they got their ass whooped' - a little more in the grey area. I mean, overall, looking the whole 20 year saga - did it work? NO. -- Was it worth it? Probably NO -- Did we stay too long? probably YES -- Were we foolish in giving them all this shit & training expecting them to be something they couldn't be or wouldn't be? -- YES.
As far as everyone else withdrawing at their own pace, that's a good question - I don't know. As I understand it, it was a matter of security & logistics.

[Anonymous]

It's not that the USA left, it's that it went there without a clear plan and somehow made things even worse. It left behind a bloody and messy wreck which goes to show you can't force democracy and freedom on people who are culturally and mentally not advanced enough yet, to understand its value and accept it.
Most european countries don't invest that much in their defense forces and are not as equipped as the US, which is the result of WWII. Naturally they can't stay and "finish the job" on their own.
The waves of refugees and extremists that will start migrating to Europe will disturb the world order again. Although I feel sorry for the civilians there, as a European, I am not exactly happy with the aftermath.

[ADFSDF1996]

The US military did not get its ass whooped, it simply had to pull out because of poor political decisions back home.

Let’s not forget that the British empire had three wars against Afghanistan, in which they lost the first one and they ultimately had to pull out after the third Anglo-Afghanistan war.

[OlderAndWiser]

You have made an excellent point!

America did not get its ass kicked. Joe Biden singlehandedly demonstrated what a pussy he is.

[Tamera952]

He did us a favor actually. Not saying there weren't problems, or that it went smoothly -- but keep in mind he was carrying out what TRUMPTARD started.

[DaveToo]

There is nothing dishonorable about leaving the Afghans to themselves. Tribes, there never did make it out of the dark ages. They still kill each other for a square acre of the desert. Fine, if they want a Muslim state, like Iran is, leave them to it. But if they decide to embrace ISIS, and allow terrorists to train in that country, then surgical airstrikes would be in order. 20 years of death is more than enough. The Afghan army didn't have the balls to stand up to the Taliban. Until enough of their people decide to change then that is how it will be.

[Aethereal]

I don't believe any country has the right to criticize the US departure, long overdue from Afghanistan. These countries do this because they do not want to spend their own money, sacrifice their own troops, to do whatever they still want done in Afghanistan.

It's like getting mad at your seatmate in school for changing seats because you'll no longer be able to copy their homework/exam; or angry at your neighbours because they changed their wifi password and now you can't use their internet.

[Jake99999]

Other countries constantly criticize us, no matter what we do. If we are doing something, we are being criticized. If we do nothing, we are criticized. The key for us as a nation is to not give a crap about all the critics. That said - I think our handling of the exit has been horrible. It deserves criticism

[Hans222]

I guess because just like the Russians, the USA found out you cannot finish the job.
Even if you manage to almost beat the Taliban, they'll retreat in the mountains, in those caves they know inside out. They'll come back out months later and hit again...
I guess they want to stop being the police officer of the world and even though the outcome is dramatic, I understand them.

[Jersey2]

As an American and one who served, I don’t want anymore of our military dying while trying to nation build in a country where they won’t sacrifice for freedom. There are millions of Afghans and only tens of thousands of Taliban. The Taliban could be wiped out by the population but they all look to the West to do it. No, not anymore. Fuck them and fuck those that would have them stay but no join in. Fuck them all.

Going forward the Taliban will need to shut down groups that want to bomb and kill Americans. If they don’t, they will get missiles, drone attacks, bombers, Special Forces raids and economic blockades. That is what we should have done from the beginning.

[Jersey2]

And no, I didn’t serve in this mess.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

Pretty much

[karaspara]

No right to criticize the whole thing was a shit show none of us should've gone in in the first place a few drone attacks would've done the same job with a few snatch squads like how they got Bin Lala anyway albeit in a different country that funnily enough didn't need invading

[Dvchill]

First off don’t get it twisted America did not get its ass kicked… if we wanted we could kick the shit out of all other countries at the same time and dominate the planet. If u don’t believe me look at our spending compared to everyone else… u can add like the top10 under us together and we spent more then that (9 of which are our allies) like we have shit we haven’t even thought of yet… that is how much we spend on war every year… that being said yeah u can make fun or say wtf… hell most of us Americans are saying it. 💁‍♂️

[ThatNoUVAtYourEyes]

I don't believe it was ever worth the effort, nor that it will be at any near point in the future, and possibly for centuries or never.
Policing retards is a thankless task all you can do is waste time and mental energy (and money) with.
Plus, without being able to sneak it behind Americans' backs, their opium trade will become next to impossible now. They overreacted to 9/11, basically, and would have been much better off staying at home and securing that properly (which, with millions of supposedly 'mexican' Hindu Al-Qaidas, is nowhere near done nor easy).

[Bee-Hatch]

Afghanistan - the country that has never even conquered. All those empires and nations through history that tried and failed. America is just the next in a long list of countries that tried to subdue Afghanistan, it failed. In a decade or two another country will try and fail.


So thould America have withdrew now? No they should have gone not long after the British withdrew in 2014.

[MrSwisher]

Yeah watch China pour troops in if the Taliban of a future group disrupts Chinas belt and road initiatives. Since the CCP also oppresses muslims I could see some trouble between them.

[Bee-Hatch]

For all those that think my comments worth a downvote. Exactly what did America achieve in Afghanistan, since 2014? Some rich assholes got richer then wanted evacuation once the troops were withdrawing. That's about it.

[Anonymous]

Yes, obviously, it was very bad.


It was an American operation and other forces were supporting, it wasn’t their war. And on that short a timescale you lose a lot of ground very quickly and it becomes dangerous for those that stay. It’s and it’s not everyone else’s job to clean up after the US.


As much as they want to say the war was bad, leaving abruptly creates yet another big fucking mess. There’s no reason it needed to happen this fast. This is one of those legendary fuck ups for the history books. Last big one was probably the bailouts after the 08 recession.

[jshm2]

Yes and you must be joking to think other countries want to take over from the shit shower that America left.

In essence the old colonial ways didn't work and the West needs to rethink how it's going to rob... erm... "redevelop" other countries that have resources it needs for it's businesses.

[Oigit]

Criticism can be really dangerous. Because it can be really easy to fall into a never ending cycle of it. So I say people from countries can criticize the US over the withdrawal. Just don't expect me to put an energy or effort into engaging with people that do so. I'm unwilling to chance getting locked into a cycle and have better things to do.

[Bricealan]

After 20 fucking years of American, men, money, weapons, supplies, don't you think these lazy assholes would have enough balls to protect themselves. This is the same shit all over again, with American bleeding, dying and spending billions/trillions of dollars for these kinds of lazy bastards that want someone else to protect their sorry asses

[DJB72]

No invading force has ever been able to cope with Afghanistan.

The British empire failed in the 19th century. Dismally.

In the past century the USSR invaded, got their butts kicked and left. Now the USA has had their ass handed to them as well.

It was crazy for America to go into the country in the first place. If the Taliban are Afghani themselves then maybe they can stabilise the country. If not, their asses will be handed to them the same way all the other invaders have.

[JClone55]

I don't ask other people's kids to make life and death sacrifices for people I don't know. So if the yankees want to get their troops out of that mess, then so be it. To anybody who champions more war and more military intervention, I say put your gear on and get your fucking ass over there and join the battle.

[Darklydarkened]

Did you know America was trying to back the most miserable, inhuman, vicious bunch of idiots of Afghanistan which never held any sway over the people and those cunts just handed the country over to Taliban the second US left?

It's the American plan, counter-insurgency was their ideal, they spent trillions of dollars, decade long war, all those people who died over absolutely nothng!

[Kilapan]

It was the gringos who boycotted the Moscow Olympics to support the Islamic fundamentalist, armed them for more than 10 years and continued to support them in the 1990s when they supported other fundamentalist groups such as the Chechens or the Bosnian Mojahideen. And now they have the face to say that they fought alone against the Taliban? pfff definitely no one surpasses them arrogance.

[CreamySeed]

European rule in Afghanistan will always fail, as I once heard the taliban say “you have the watches but we have the time” they will always win a war of attrition. Even if we went full medieval on them and nuked the slate clean like cockroaches in the woodwork they will keep coming forever and ever until you give up.

[bingbongbangbung]

Uh no if the USA nuked Afghanistan they'd be gone for good, but collateral damage would affect neighboring countries like Pakistan, Iran, and one of the Central Asian countries ending in -stan lol

[CreamySeed]

@bingbongbangbung they live in the mountains hard to nuke that plus their extremist yoke live all around the world. Impossible to eradicate an ideology, Bush tried 😌