Why do some conservatives support Russia over Ukraine?

Question

Certain sects of the right wing sort of semi-openly criticize Ukraine and support Russia regarding the current ongoing war.

I just want to know why? Is it JUST to be contrarian since the USA backs Ukraine and current sitting president is Democrat, that they automatically will say our administration's allied country is actually the bad one. Or, is there some other more nefarious reason why they would support Russia?

The way I see it, is no matter how "justified" a conflict might be, there is NO justification for what Putin has done to the Ukrainian population. It's simply evil, whether you think USA should be involved at all, or not. It's still evil to genocide a population of civilians and decimate a country for political gain.

Doesn't surprise me that some conservatives would dog-whistle their support for such a thing. I mean, after all, the USA did it to Iraq and they all acted like it was pure patriotism to follow orders and massacre a bunch of people of false pretense.

But Russia was always a common enemy to all of the west. So I don't exactly understand the conservative support for Russia over Ukraine. Not saying ALL of them do, but some do, and I don't quite get their twisted angle unless it's just contrarian "Biden bad" nonsense.

Curmudgeon · Accepted Answer

Why? For two reasons: (1) if our interventions in the Balkans, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan should have taught us anything, it is this: *Don't get involved in other people's ethnic and tribal conflicts*. And: (2) China is the bigger foe for the 21st century, and rather than playing China off against the Soviet Union now Russia, like every Presdient since Nixon, this Administration is getting them to team up against us. Utter Folly.

OK, I DO understand laughing at the pathetic performance of the Russian military. It’s funny! The areas that Russia has "taken"? They *did not* conquer them; they were *invited in* by ethnic Russian supermajorities in those areas, ethnic Russians unhappy at - and backlashing against - the hyper-nationalistic turn that ethnic Ukrainians have taken in recent years, which has led to ethnic Ukrainians metaphorically pooping all over the ethnic Russians. And this Ukrainian hyper-nationalism is totally understandable, as the Soviet system was pooping all over them for decades. But that wasn't the fault of the average ethnic Russian, who was just a pawn in that whole system too.

But THAT is just the problem. It’s an ethnic war. Remember what I wrote above? Ask yourself this: What should we have learned from our failed USA interventions in Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan?

Answer: Don’t get involved in other people’s ethnic and tribal wars. And especially don’t try to “nation-build” in such countries. American soldiers die pointlessly and Americans end up leaving badly.

Sure we could topple Saddam Hussein and the Taliban, but then we had to stick around and “nation build”. And the various ethnic and tribal factions fighting with each other began shooting at our boys (and in todays military, some of our girls). And that was futile, right?

And sadly, that futility is what the USA and NATO are committing themselves to doing. Ukrainian hyper nationalism has alienated the ethnic Russians who live in the on-paper borders of Ukraine. Here is a Ukraine electoral map from 2010. This was the first election where the ethnic tensions exploded:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Notice anything? The majority Russian areas vs the majority Ukrainian areas. And where has Russia successfully made inroads? Among the majority Russian areas.

Here is an example of ethnic Ukrainians trying to stick it to ethnic Russians in the on-paper Ukraine:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukrainian-langauge-growth-ukraine-russia-1.6822777

And it gets worse when you realize that the boundaries of the former "Soviet Republics" (sic) were not drawn with the various ethnics in mind, but rather for internal Party reasons. Stalin certainly ruthlessly moved many ethnics around, resentments that drive Ukrainian nationalism now, but even long before him, many areas of (the on a paper map) Ukraine today were full of ethnic Russians. The Crimea region for example, which broke away from Ukraine in 2014 – nine years ago - has been overwhelmingly ethnic Russian for centuries, and Sevastopol was an important Russian port back to Peter the Great days.

And even granting Stalin's brutal moving of people around, after 80 odd years, we have to accept that people are where they are. What are we going to do? Kick the Russians that came into the on paper Ukraine during Stalin's time, as I am sure the Ukrainian nationalists wish? So, will Poland want the "Kresy" back? And Germany want back East Prussia and Silesia? Those borders that we have today were also made by Stalin's brutality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia

And even if Putin is the greatest nogoodnik around today, his views were shared by Russian leaders before him and will be shared by those who follow him, even those who might topple him. Even Boris Yeltsin, the most pro-American leader Russia ever had, raised concerns about millions of ethnic Russians in "the near abroad" and how the map might have to be redrawn to address those ethnic Russians.

NOTE: Boris Yeltsin was accused by fellow Russians of being too American friendly to the point of being a USA puppet. Sound familiar?

And maybe that is just the fate of Empires: when they break up, they do not break up along nice neat national and ethnic lines:
--The Ottoman Empire fell apart, and the Armenian Genocide followed.
--Austria-Hungary fell apart, millions of ethnic Germans found themselves on the wrong side of a line, and “Uncle Wulfy” took advantage of that.
--And let's not forget the former Yugoslavia, with Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, and ethnic Albanians killing each other in a free-for-all of wars. And what happens when your adversaries actually have a point? We remember the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, where Serbia was demonized even though Croat, Bosniak and ethnic Albanian militias were no better (and often much worse).

Even relatively peaceful ends of empires, like The British Empire, had:
--the India/Pakistan/Bangladesh Wars, with thousands killed and millions of people forced to move.
--Cyprus, with ethnic Greeks and Turks killed and many more forced to move.

What we are seeing now is just the long delayed fruits of the breakup of the Soviet Empire. I predict that Russia will at some point just annex the ethnic Russian ethnic supermajority areas they hold, have the map redrawn, and call it a day. And unlike the Sudetenland in Evil Adolf's days, where the Czechs *had* to hold it in order to have a defensible border, the ethnic Russian areas are not helpful to Ukraine in terms of defensible borders – the whole area is a Midwestern USA style plain more or less.

The underlying reality sadly remains the same, and that reality is:

--a sizeable enough number of ethnic and linguistic Russians in the (on paper) Ukraine are unhappy and separatist,

--Russia intervened on their behalf (and would do so even if a much better person than the evil Putin was running the place), after all, even Boris Yeltsin was saber rattling about this back when he was alive,

--People of the two ethnic / linguistic groups are moving to one side or the other.

We have to remind them that the world of today is not the world of 1983, which is 40 years ago now.

Putin is surely a hard nosed ruler, but a Stalin, or a Brezhnev/Andropov/Chernenko he is not. In some ways he has actually gone more free market than the West! Putin is all about ultra right corporate policies in Russia, with no boundaries. Corrupt, dishonest, but money-friendly first and utmost never the less.

So Trump's approach to the crisis was correct. His approach was "Sure Russia is not a nice place, but I can deal with Russia in the current shape and form, and I don't see it as a threat compared to the other more sinister powers out there - China, Islamic world - you name it."

Which brings me to Question 2. What has every Administration from Nixon forward done in foreign policy with respect to The Soviet Union/Russia and Red China, which the Biden Administration has foolishly cast aside?

Answer: Played The Soviet Union (now Russia) and Red China off against each other.

And what has the Biden Administration done? Russia and Red China are cozying up to each other now! Tarde agreements, joint military maneuvers, and China has even offered to diplomatically negotiate a solution to Ukraine. (And you can bet that the end result of that will be the map redrawn like I said above). So from now on, we cannot play off Russia against China like every President’s Administration from Nixon to Trump had done. They will ally – against us!

This WILL be a disaster for decades to come. Mark my words.

Soteris · Accepted Answer

Russia has been supporting the right wing in many countries all around the world, including USA. That support includes building relationships with key people and providing material and monetary support for right wing causes. As such, there are many people within the right wing who are personally biased. To go along with that there is also the Russian propaganda, more specifically the "strong man leader" that Russia pretends Putin is which many in the right wing looks up to and admirers.

In a way, its a good way to identify traitors because they are the people who sold out their national allegiance even before this war.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Trump went anti-Ukraine because they weren't investigating Biden's son for him. And also Trump has to kiss Putin's ass who he keeps all the dirt he has on Trump to himself. So it's mostly just the Trump loyalists who are pro-Russia. The rest still understand Russia is the enemy.

ProbablyClueless · Answer

It seems like you are meshing a bunch of issues and concepts together in a way that doesn't seem to reflect the way Conservatives actually think. At least, the way I understand Conservatives to think.

I don't know a single person who supports Putin's invasion into Ukraine.

The closest thing I've heard to "support" for Putin is that the US shouldn't be funding the Ukrainians to the extent that we are. That is a huge difference. You could argue that the US and NATO should fund Ukraine on account of us being the cause of the war in the first place.

The reason what's happening in Ukraine is totally different from the Second Gulf War is that the US had a very direct reason for getting involved; protecting our access to oil. The US has no direct incentive to be involved in Ukraine. It's only a choice to protect a marginally beneficial alliance with NATO and to screw over Russia.

gorydetails · Answer

lol, you dopes are the only ones who hear these dog whistles. The issue is the leftards think anyone who claims the US should not be sending billions to ukraine and that the US should stay out of international wars is claimed to be a Russia supporter.

AviatorTom · Answer

Ukraine is getting a lot of military and intelligence assistance from other countries, while Russia is mostly on its own. That effectively makes Russia the underdog, and some people always root for the underdog.

Anonymous · Answer

They will usually agree with you that he is a dictator and he will rule with an iron fist. However, they will reluctantly agree with him on the fact that modern western ideals (which was never really western in the first place) are a cancer.

I don't think they want either side to win because it's like getting shot in one leg by a gun with a pride flag on it or the other with a gun with the Russian flag on it. It's not like I have a favorite leg I just don't want to be shot at all.

KostasKouvalis · Answer

Because Zelensky is a fucking liar, propagandist, hypocrite and manipulator, that's why. Are you really naiive enough to believe Putin just woke up and decided to invade Ukraine without provocation.

Dargil · Answer

Name me a conservative that does that, not one who asks questions or understands history.

Bricealan · Answer

They do? Who would that be?

Why do some conservatives support Russia over Ukraine?

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